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The general price of US TG16 games seems to have constantly been going up and up as the years go by.
Do you think the prices will keep going up indefinitely or the prices will stop increasing and plateau or even possibly dip and have a price crash?   
Say for example if the market gets flooded with high quality repros of the more expensive games this I think could cause a price crash.
 :D

I dont think there will be a price crash anytime soon. In fact, I think prices are going to continue to rise. With more and more people interested in classic games, and more people holding onto games, its going to be much harder to find certain titles. People will take advantage of this, and collectards will pay high prices to get these games.

I'm pretty sure the Neo-Geo guys are asking the same thing.  Turbo stuff likes to fluctuate a shitload but I don't see prices crashing any time soon.  I think the influx is from buyers that had it as a kid wanting it back but also retro collectors are on the rise.  Finally when we get a little older we tend to have more disposable income and being willing to pay more for things we want.

IF there ever is a crash, it won't be until all of us that had Turbos as a kid finally die and IF our families dump our collections. Or maybe by that time, they'll be considered antiques to have physical media and keep continuing to rise in price.  Strange but possible.

I hoped there would be one during the last console generation when TG16/PCE games started appearing on the Virtual Console and PSN. Nope.

I don't think there'll be a crash, but I do hope at some point it'll at least plateau and maybe dip a little bit.

I don't think you'll ever see a crash, as values aren't really inflated. Prices spiked in August of 2012 when a few insta-collectors went crazy. However,  if you follow TG16 prices, some of the mid-level rares aren't pulling what they were even a year ago. A crash suggests a total fallout, but I think a softening, i.e. slow decline, is more likely.

I think what is happening with Atari 2600 is what will happen with most every video game collection - the mid-range uncommon to rares will continue to soften in price, while the top tier rares will grow astronomically. This happens as fewer people collect, but the die-hards that stick around get ever increasing wallet sizes, and the ability to spend oodles of money on a "collecting trophy." Magical Chase might seem insane at $5k, but it would take 400 copies of Magical Chase to own a single graded copy of Action Comics #1.

Quote from: RoyVegas on 02/21/2014, 01:39 PMIF there ever is a crash, it won't be until all of us that had Turbos as a kid finally die and IF our families dump our collections. Or maybe by that time, they'll be considered antiques to have physical media and keep continuing to rise in price.  Strange but possible.

I think if we look that far ahead like 50-60 years by then 3D printers should have become so advanced you will be able to print clones of the games.

I've found old threads on the Neo Geo forums from 10 years ago where ppl were saying the bubble will burst, and of course we've seen that didn't happen.

I've wondered about this myself though.  In the upcoming years, as we die off we'll see rarer titles from collections pop up, but are people 50-70 years from now going to even WANT expensive physical media?  Kids nowadays have everything digital, and I just have a feeling the demand won't last.  If they have no memories or nostalgia for an old system like the TG, would they really seek out Bravoman and Timeball?

DK mentioned Atari 2600 and I think prices will plateau eventually.  Kids these days who think N64 is retro want nothing to do with Atari carts.  I have a feeling it will eventually level out like most 2600 cart prices have (excluding mega-rares).

I have thought about this quite a bit, and good games will always be valuable.  When the younger generation start to develop hobbies, those that get in to collecting video games or video games in general will want to own physical copies of great games, games with historic significance or interesting stories.  It's my belief that the "rare" crappy games will get no love from the next generation.

I think Atari 2600 prices can be kind of a baseline, but the problem is a lot of Atari stuff is SO simple it's hard to enjoy as much nowadays.  The leap from Atari to NES is huge in not only graphics but also in the variety of playstyles and mechanics that evolved. 

What I'm essentially saying is, even some of the best Atari games can be a chore to play at times, but a lot of NES and SMS games (even if they're less than stellar) have concepts and mechanics that are still pretty timeless.  This makes me think 8-bit stuff forward will hold it's own much better that Atari aged stuff based on gameplay value alone.

I agree that games from the 8bit and especially 16bit era have much more lasting appeal than the Atari 2600.  Disney games, for example, actually look like their characters.

Right now there's a big spotlight on all things video games.  It'll move on.

Truly rare stuff will increase in value as time goes on; there's no helping that.  The common stuff will fall.

In 10 years the few people who love video games will still want that rare game.  The millions of fly-by-night, me-too insta-collectors will no longer give a shit about SMB3, and its price will plummet.

the titles I still need to complete my PCE collection are expensive since decades..lol. just hope that they don't go significantly up any more.

Probably not soon, but I can see prices coming down after 5-10 years from now.  The people buying this stuff now mostly had it when they were young.  Eventually those guys are going to get old enough that they will stop.  I am mostly using the atari 2600 as a model for this.  It was pretty hot a little over 10 years ago, but now its the cheapest thing out there.  I realize there were and still are tons more atari stuff out there and supply is half the price equation

however, if retro collecting continous to grow and get really popular, there could be major inflation.  I know it can seem like a saturated hobby to those of us that really follow it, but in reality its still pretty niche. TG stuff is pretty rare compared to nintendo and sega.

Quote from: Mzo on 02/24/2014, 02:01 AMRight now there's a big spotlight on all things video games.  It'll move on.

Truly rare stuff will increase in value as time goes on; there's no helping that.  The common stuff will fall.

In 10 years the few people who love video games will still want that rare game.  The millions of fly-by-night, me-too insta-collectors will no longer give a shit about SMB3, and its price will plummet.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. However, I think games with mass appeal will maintain some value. SMB 1-3, Punchout, Contra, Super Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros, things of that ilk will not lose value until most of us are dead. Any child of the 80s to 00s will remember these games fondly, and at some point will want a copy to share with family, grandkids, and whoever.

That said, some of the hyped-up rares, like Hagane, Little Samson, or Flinstones: Surprise at Dino Peak have appeal to only hardcore or insta-collectors. These games are far more common than people let on, and once the market goes away, their prices will crash. Collecting-hysteria is the only reason these prices remain high.

TG16 is a harder situation to understand. There are probably a few reasons to start getting into TG16 later in life. My thinking is that it has wider appeal to the elitist collector - which can and sometimes is the same as an insta-collector. Which raises the question, are the prices on midlevel rares just hype? Games such as Soldier Blade, Neutopia II, Jackie Chan, Air Zonk, and etc, seem in line for the current level of demand. My question is, how much of that is just the insta-collectors branching out into TG16 to increase the obscurity of their collection, and how much of it is actual low-supply side economics? Its hard to tell what TG16 demand will be like in the future. I'm just happy my collection is mostly where I want it.

I think it will eventually die out, except for a few games which are in a point of no return (hi magical chase).
Will our hucards work in 20 years? Natural deterioration might cause a crash in the market since no one will want to spend money on something that has its days counted.

Quote from: Nulltard on 02/21/2014, 11:08 PMbut... In the year 3000, anything without photo real stereoscopic neural interface w/ 5 sense feedback + wireless fleshlight will seem no different than custar's revenge.

Turbofapix-4096?

I also agree that prices probably will continue to rise for a few years to even a decade. It will then plateau and probably decline.  I am sure most of us are in their thirties to early forties. When we stop buying these games that remind us of our early childhood and teens. The next generation of gamers probably would not want anything to do with it. I had The Atari 2600 was my 1st system and I don't have any interest in it. I actually found some games at my parents not too long ago.

Quote from: Bklyn4ever on 02/24/2014, 07:50 PMI had The Atari 2600 was my 1st system and I don't have any interest in it.

that goes for me as well. i have only very few feelings left for thye ol' VCS even it was my first home gaming experience beside the Nintendo G&W's.

Now my next system I had, the c64, was a whole different rabbit hole, when it comes to nostalgia and feelings.

I think if a system has bad musics or not even musics at all, it can't evoke a lot of nostagia feelings inside me.

Q: Will there ever be a TG-16 price crash?
A: No.

Quote from: Tatsujin on 02/24/2014, 08:33 PM

Quote from: Bklyn4ever on 02/24/2014, 07:50 PMI had The Atari 2600 was my 1st system and I don't have any interest in it.

that goes for me as well. i have only very few feelings left for thye ol' VCS even it was my first home gaming experience beside the Nintendo G&W's.

I too have no nostalgia for my first home gaming platform which was the ZX Spectrum.

I think many people ( im to young to know for sure) have no nostalgia for things like the Atari is because the games were way to simple. A car being represented by a yellow block here. Or a Person being represented by a tan block there. Theres really nothing to be nostalgic for.

Quote from: esteban on 02/24/2014, 10:16 PMQ: Will there ever be a TG-16 price crash?
A: No.

I don't think it's quite that simple. As stated above insta-collectors and trophy hunters will probably move on. I would argue that these types hold little lasting passion for the hobby. Once they get bored they'll move onto the next hot topic.

It may not truly ever crash. But it could shrink down to something more sane.

Quote from: munchiaz on 02/25/2014, 11:16 AMI think many people ( im to young to know for sure) have no nostalgia for things like the Atari is because the games were way to simple. A car being represented by a yellow block here. Or a Person being represented by a tan block there. Theres really nothing to be nostalgic for.

that's true, but more important is the musics. music is much more of a memory carrier than visuals are. if the VCS had awesome musics like f.e. a c64, I would be very much loving it for that alone, and certainly also would have lots of nostalgic memories.

I grew up with the Odyssey and the Atari 2600 and I have never thought about buying them back or playing them.  I just don't enjoy them that much =/

Quote from: Mathius on 02/25/2014, 05:11 PM

Quote from: esteban on 02/24/2014, 10:16 PMQ: Will there ever be a TG-16 price crash?
A: No.

I don't think it's quite that simple. As stated above insta-collectors and trophy hunters will probably move on. I would argue that these types hold little lasting passion for the hobby. Once they get bored they'll move onto the next hot topic.

It may not truly ever crash. But it could shrink down to something more sane.

Q: Do you have a reasonable argument?
A: Yes.
Q: Does it matter?
A: No.

 :pcgs:

ALL YOU BASTARDS HATIN' ON VCS/2600: GRAB A PADDLE AND PLAY KABOOM! and you'll see that how wrong you are. Suck it, haters.

I presume that turbo market may not see a reduction in prices, if not a marginal drop due rarity and niche demand for English localized pc engine games

but pc engine prices have significantly dropped since everdrive flash card release and most games are more affordable than lets say 10 years ago or even 5 years, only really rare games keeps there prices ( reflects hardcore collectors market), you will always get extortion prices on ebay, but auctions will reflect the market

emulation on current consoles has also contributed to the drop as well

Quote from: Tatsujin on 02/25/2014, 08:51 PMthat's true, but more important is the musics. music is much more of a memory carrier than visuals are. if the VCS had awesome musics like f.e. a c64, I would be very much loving it for that alone, and certainly also would have lots of nostalgic memories.

This....  This is so incredibly true.  I have the most connection with games who's music I love.  I'll bet there are some games where I've listened the the music far more than I ever actually played the game.  Ahh video game music how I love thee...

Quote from: BlueBMW on 02/25/2014, 11:25 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 02/25/2014, 08:51 PMthat's true, but more important is the musics. music is much more of a memory carrier than visuals are. if the VCS had awesome musics like f.e. a c64, I would be very much loving it for that alone, and certainly also would have lots of nostalgic memories.

This....  This is so incredibly true.  I have the most connection with games who's music I love.  I'll bet there are some games where I've listened the the music far more than I ever actually played the game.  Ahh video game music how I love thee...

I couldn't agree with you two more! There is just something about 8 and 16-Bit chip generated and even some 32-bit synth that fills my belly with warm nostalgia. I was playing Rage Racer today and when you win a cup and progress to the next race there is a CG interlude with the coolest 32-Bit synth! It was the best kind of Japanese synth rock. I wish the whole game had music in that style.

I doubt it. If emulation hasn't caused a major price drop in retro games nothing will.

For every game sold is another one less in circulation, Lots more people are awakening to the Turbo every day, They are realising that the console they saw as an also ran is totally awesome and then the buying frenzy begins, The Turbo will eventually i think reach a dizzy height like the Neo Geo obviously games wont reach those crazy prices but the demand will increase and increase, Im in the u.k and if you guys stateside think games are expensive try buying them here........Well you have to find some first.

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 02/26/2014, 12:58 AMI doubt it. If emulation hasn't caused a major price drop in retro games nothing will.

software emulation is rarely 100% perfect compared to real games on real machines

but flash carts on real hardware is essentially the same except the high prices

Quote from: Mathius on 02/25/2014, 11:42 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 02/25/2014, 11:25 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 02/25/2014, 08:51 PMthat's true, but more important is the musics. music is much more of a memory carrier than visuals are. if the VCS had awesome musics like f.e. a c64, I would be very much loving it for that alone, and certainly also would have lots of nostalgic memories.

This....  This is so incredibly true.  I have the most connection with games who's music I love.  I'll bet there are some games where I've listened the the music far more than I ever actually played the game.  Ahh video game music how I love thee...

I couldn't agree with you two more! There is just something about 8 and 16-Bit chip generated and even some 32-bit synth that fills my belly with warm nostalgia. I was playing Rage Racer today and when you win a cup and progress to the next race there is a CG interlude with the coolest 32-Bit synth! It was the best kind of Japanese synth rock. I wish the whole game had music in that style.

Pitfall II has the best 2600 soundtrack, that's one I often hum/whistle/think about.  I guess I have some sort of nostalgia connection with that game, but otherwise, not too much else for the old Atari.

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 02/26/2014, 12:58 AMI doubt it. If emulation hasn't caused a major price drop in retro games nothing will.

Connection:  Ever since the Magic Engine Forums have declined in activity the prices of Turbo games have increased in price.  O_O!  What we all need to do is migrate over there and be more active. PROMOTE EMULATION!  DEMOTE TURBOGRAFX! Let all the collector/follower/me-to'er sheep think that all we do is download ROMZ and play on our computers!!  Then they'll quickly sell off their actual games because it won't be cool anymore.

We are the trend setters....

Quote from: imparanoic on 02/25/2014, 10:31 PMbut pc engine prices have significantly dropped since everdrive flash card release and most games are more affordable than lets say 10 years ago or even 5 years, only really rare games keeps there prices ( reflects hardcore collectors market), you will always get extortion prices on ebay, but auctions will reflect the market

emulation on current consoles has also contributed to the drop as well

I too have noticed a price drop in PC Engine prices from 5 years ago not sure I agree though that it's due to the everdrive or emulation.
US TG-16 games on the other hand seem to be constantly going up in price over the years, my guess is the print runs on the US stuff were much lower and the amount of TG-16 collectors have increased so it's a case of supply and demand.

To the OP:

Anything that goes up in value very rarely comes down.
In the videogame world it would take a discovery of new/old stock, possibly in a warehouse, as was the case with Circus Lido on the PCEngine. Once a much sought after rarety, but now fairly common as new.
Any hobby that involves some kind of collecting such as baseball cards, comic-books, videogames etc attracts
investors. People that have no interest in the subject matter but are willing to speculate large
sums of money accumulating 'stocks and shares' in these hobbies.
Sites like this one (and a few others I could name) provide invaluable information for these people, as can be seen by some of the posts/threads that some people (usually newbies??, such as myself) make.
When valuation sevices such as CGC for comic-books or VGA for videogames appear you can pretty
much guarantee it is too late.
Are you going to pay $5,000 for a VGA sealed copy of Magical Chase and open it to play?
The gulf between the less attractive (one would assume less rare) games and the premium titles will grow much further as time goes by, whether in top grade or not and as we have seen on ebay/yaj there is no shortage of people willing to pay these premiums.
Emulation, piracy or other means of playing these games will not make a dent in the desireability/value of a top title much the same as reprinting old comic-books has zero effect on theirs and people are much more educated about these values now due to press/tv exposure.
Luckily, for me, I have zero interest in TGX version games apart from one or two of the action rpg translations, but if I did and a copy of Magical Chase or any other 'premium' title popped up, on ebay or not, I would be very tempted to 'get in early' because this stuff just isn't going to be available to buy in 10 years or so.
Collectors are not going to re-circulate this stuff back into the community, but I suppose you could wait for them to die.  :twisted:

Posted by HardcoreOtaku

QuoteI too have noticed a price drop in PC Engine prices from 5 years ago not sure I agree though that it's due to the everdrive or emulation.
US TG-16 games on the other hand seem to be constantly going up in price over the years, my guess is the print runs on the US stuff were much lower and the amount of TG-16 collectors have increased so it's a case of supply and demand.

I'm not sure where you are seeing this happen, even some of the cheaper sellers (jump2japan)
have raised their prices substantially over the last couple of years and prices for used games
appear to sell at what was the sealed level.

Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 02/26/2014, 05:48 AM

Quote from: Mathius on 02/25/2014, 11:42 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 02/25/2014, 11:25 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 02/25/2014, 08:51 PMthat's true, but more important is the musics. music is much more of a memory carrier than visuals are. if the VCS had awesome musics like f.e. a c64, I would be very much loving it for that alone, and certainly also would have lots of nostalgic memories.

This....  This is so incredibly true.  I have the most connection with games who's music I love.  I'll bet there are some games where I've listened the the music far more than I ever actually played the game.  Ahh video game music how I love thee...

I couldn't agree with you two more! There is just something about 8 and 16-Bit chip generated and even some 32-bit synth that fills my belly with warm nostalgia. I was playing Rage Racer today and when you win a cup and progress to the next race there is a CG interlude with the coolest 32-Bit synth! It was the best kind of Japanese synth rock. I wish the whole game had music in that style.

Pitfall II has the best 2600 soundtrack, that's one I often hum/whistle/think about.  I guess I have some sort of nostalgia connection with that game, but otherwise, not too much else for the old Atari.

and to end on a positive note:
I could not agree more, picking up a hardsid card for my pc and dloading acidplayer/hvsc
best move ever for those c64 sid tunes.

Quote from: rtyper on 02/26/2014, 07:38 AMCollectors are not going to re-circulate this stuff back into the community.....

It happens all the time when collectors need money to pay rent, get a root canal, buy some other shiny bauble they can't afford, etc.

Quote from: rtyper on 02/26/2014, 07:38 AMPosted by HardcoreOtaku

QuoteI too have noticed a price drop in PC Engine prices from 5 years ago not sure I agree though that it's due to the everdrive or emulation.
US TG-16 games on the other hand seem to be constantly going up in price over the years, my guess is the print runs on the US stuff were much lower and the amount of TG-16 collectors have increased so it's a case of supply and demand.

I'm not sure where you are seeing this happen, even some of the cheaper sellers (jump2japan)
have raised their prices substantially over the last couple of years and prices for used games
appear to sell at what was the sealed level.

With regards the PC Engine price drop I meant more the price eBay auctions were ending at not the 'buy it now' sales.

Quote from: guest on 02/26/2014, 10:34 AM

Quote from: rtyper on 02/26/2014, 07:38 AMCollectors are not going to re-circulate this stuff back into the community.....

It happens all the time when collectors need money to pay rent, get a root canal, buy some other shiny bauble they can't afford, etc.


This January just passed i have snagged me the most bargains i have ever snagged, It was obviously because of the post Christmas cash flow and the continued economic world mess, So i agree with you there does come a point where people will be forced to sell certain things, Sometimes they start them high and don't move some times they start low and you get an incredible deal, I bought Parasol stars tg16 version complete in box for £12 one of my nicest deals to date.

if its anything like car parts, the less available, they keep their value.

I don't see prices going significantly down at least until our generation becomes senile and we can no longer play. But then the younger generations will be telling stories and distort history. Who knows, maybe in a 100 years Imposamole and Darwing Duck will be highly sought after items and expensive just like a Ming Dynasty vase.

Quote from: esadajr on 02/27/2014, 03:10 PMBut then the younger generations will be telling stories and distort history. Who knows, maybe in a 100 years Imposamole and Darwing Duck will be highly sought after items and expensive just like a Ming Dynasty vase.

Yep. Take AdventureVision for example. A few years back you could get a CIB for around 500-800 bucks. Now its more like 1500+, and it is far from being mint, if you ever come across one...which is likely only 2x a year on Ebay, both of them around xmas.

So yes, they become more and more like cars. Expensive toys, if you will  O:)

Every time i come back to this thread i think of that episode of cowboy bebop where they find a VHS tape, and they take it to some hardcore collector to watch it

Yeah, still analog  :lol:

im going to say no. with ebay, the prices will be set like that forever, if a price ever dropped, there would always be 10 people ready to snap it up which would then just raise the price back up. sure there are idiots who list stuff for 99 million $ but if something fell from like 100 to 50, i would be on that, and you knwo you would be too!

also with atari and almost everything else  compared to turbo the number of carts out there are 100 X more! so unless your out for every game, you can surely get something fun for not a lot.

i think if anything virtual console just increased interest in older games instead of lowering value.


over on atari age once, like yeaaaaars ago there was some post about research of how long a game could be playable. i recall seeing that in an air tight space, they could last 300-400 years presumably! its all about if the pins can still make a connection.


the next question is what happens when tvs no longer have AV inputs? meaning all pre hdmi game systems will eventually have no tv to play them on, uh oh!

Quote from: munchiaz on 02/27/2014, 03:37 PMEvery time i come back to this thread i think of that episode of cowboy bebop where they find a VHS tape, and they take it to some hardcore collector to watch it

Good episode. Good series.

i think if anything virtual console just increased interest in older games instead of lowering value.[/quote]
It also doesn't help that Nintendo is killing the win virtual console in favor of the wiiu in May...

Quote from: kenomac78 on 03/03/2014, 12:42 AMthe next question is what happens when tvs no longer have AV inputs? meaning all pre hdmi game systems will eventually have no tv to play them on, uh oh!

There will be converters, even if we make the switch to the neural system

I had a theory that there would be a sliding scale of what's valuable at any given time - whatever people between the ages of 20 and 40 (or so) were nostalgic for. Started with Atari, shifted to the 8 and 16 bit generations, will shift to Xbox/PS2/GC era, etc.

But now everyone collects everything all the time so that theory is out the window.

I really don't see a "bubble" with this hobby because reprints and re-releases don't appear to have much effect on the value of the original items. People value the original copies and it's not like they're going to start printing more any time soon.

But this really only applies if you give a shit about "grail" games that cost an arm and a leg. I just got Vagrant Story for $10 on eBay complete, and I'll take that over Flintstones for the NES all day.

Quote from: kenomac78 on 03/03/2014, 12:42 AMthe next question is what happens when tvs no longer have AV inputs? meaning all pre hdmi game systems will eventually have no tv to play them on, uh oh!

Whenever I have a similar thought, I am reminded that the majority of collectors out there don't actually play their games anyway.  Sealed game collectors for example have no intention of ever playing those games, so whether they can hook their consoles up or not is irrelevant to them.  They sure look great on display though in their shiney shrinkwrap and VGA cases. 

Just imagine all of the consoles sitting around in boxes on collectors shelves right now with their caps leaking all over the place, lol.  The consoles won't work as they are intended to anyway without some proper maintenance.

So, if you're worried about the value of your games, don't be.  There will always be a collector who will buy your old games from you for good money so they can display them.

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 03/03/2014, 10:52 AMI just got Vagrant Story for $10 on eBay complete, and I'll take that over Flintstones for the NES all day.

Amen to that, I love Vagrant Story! Man, Square were really on top of their game back then.

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 03/03/2014, 10:52 AMBut this really only applies if you give a shit about "grail" games that cost an arm and a leg. I just got Vagrant Story for $10 on eBay complete, and I'll take that over Flintstones for the NES all day.

^^This. It's exactly what separates us from collectards.

Answer: No.

Quote from: guest on 02/21/2014, 01:44 PMI hoped there would be one during the last console generation when TG16/PCE games started appearing on the Virtual Console and PSN. Nope.

I'm sorry, Virtual Console got me interested in PCE. ;)

if you think it's bad now, wait 'till a celebrity is seen playing the Turbo

I give 5 years, and the bubble will start to slowly leak.  It won't burst but after 5 years the prices will get better.  My reason is for age.  A lot of kids now have little to no interest in 2d/old games.  Our problem was everyone our age or in their recent 20's finally graduated college, got jobs and had money to blow.  Well now everyone is getting older, starting families and needing money elsewhere.  Shit will get sold off and prices are going to drop.  It's kinda like how everyone gobbles up new systems to try and gouge, then interest wains, and people are left with wasted money.  In 5 years if I'm wrong you can all come back and laugh at me, but I still believe 5 years is going to be the point it will start to drop.

they said that about the neogeo 10 years ago and now look at it. Any hobby is plagued by instacollectards and people with more money than sense.

due to the rarity the prices will stay strong. in five years you may not see turbo anything, as most guys will keep playing or just stash it. well see.

Quote from: geise on 03/04/2014, 10:48 AMI give 5 years, and the bubble will start to slowly leak.  It won't burst but after 5 years the prices will get better.  My reason is for age.  A lot of kids now have little to no interest in 2d/old games.  Our problem was everyone our age or in their recent 20's finally graduated college, got jobs and had money to blow.  Well now everyone is getting older, starting families and needing money elsewhere.  Shit will get sold off and prices are going to drop.  It's kinda like how everyone gobbles up new systems to try and gouge, then interest wains, and people are left with wasted money.  In 5 years if I'm wrong you can all come back and laugh at me, but I still believe 5 years is going to be the point it will start to drop.

I have noticed that the 2D games seem to have aged a lot better than the early 3D games.  It seems like the Playstation 1, N64, and even the original xbox and PS2 games dont seem to hold up very well over time.  I believe this has been a big contributor to the SNES recent success.  Those games just look a lot better than the next generation up from them.  Maybe younger generations will see it differently, but I think history will show 1989-1994 to be the true time when video games really came into their own.

I concur with the n64 and PS1 games not holding up. The polygon graphics look like ass. I would much rather play a 2d classic. However I feel the PS2 titles hold up very well, and still look really good.

I agree early 3D polygon games haven't aged well.
Saying that I still love playing Star Fox on the Snes.

It's hard to tell. When we're 50, will you still give a damn? I'm not sure I will. But then again, hold on to anything long enough and it's just going to appreciate over time. Especially since it was a bit of an odd rarity of a system.

Climate change and the failure of globalization will most certainly see it reduced to recyclable parts that can be exchanged for food and water.

Quote from: geise on 03/04/2014, 10:48 AMI give 5 years, and the bubble will start to slowly leak.  It won't burst but after 5 years the prices will get better.  My reason is for age.  A lot of kids now have little to no interest in 2d/old games.  Our problem was everyone our age or in their recent 20's finally graduated college, got jobs and had money to blow.  Well now everyone is getting older, starting families and needing money elsewhere.  Shit will get sold off and prices are going to drop.  It's kinda like how everyone gobbles up new systems to try and gouge, then interest wains, and people are left with wasted money.  In 5 years if I'm wrong you can all come back and laugh at me, but I still believe 5 years is going to be the point it will start to drop.

Seems logical, and you could be right, but I'd like to offer another perspective.  I believe it's in our nature to want to accumulate things.  Whether these things are tangible or not is another story.  Just look at the concept of gamerscore through achievements on Xbox.  Some people refuse to switch from xbox to PS4 solely because of the potential of losing their gamerscore, or worse yet, the little number in your profile that indicates the number of years you have been an xbox live member.  Status is very much tied to how much stuff you can accumulate.

Look at this very site.  Post count and years of membership count for something (not arguing this point), but there's nothing to say that a new member with limited posts can't be as valuable or more valuable than a more established user.  Take me for example.  I've been on this site for the better part of a decade, but haven't really contributed a damn thing to the community.  I recognize now however that this community is different than the community on other gaming sites.  You're not circle jerking around a Nintendo cart because it has 3 screws in it instead of 5. 

I'm not so sure that the nature of people will change.  The only question is WHAT will people collect in the future?  I don't think you were ever debating whether people would continue collecting period, but If we can agree that interactive games/entertainment will be popular, either through virtual reality, or some other medium, then I suspect collecting remnants of the history of that past-time will also be popular.  If anything, the next generation is more apt to collect vintage games than we are given the abundance of information that will be available at their fingertips.  When I started getting in to gaming, there was no internet.  By the time I really discovered what the true gems of each console were, it was too late for me.  I have a nice pile of games, but I have basically gotten to a point now where realistically getting each title on my wish list is impossible without being irresponsible. 

However, the upcoming generation isn't incumbered by responsibility yet, and all it takes is a handful of zombies who must acquire all the RAREZ to set this perpetual cycle in motion yet again.  It starts with what they know; PS1, N64, Xbox, etc...and then they are introduced to other consoles through research and reading and the need to get out there and get that next copy of Magical Chase grows from a want to a need.  Look no further than the dude who came in here to drop $5,000 on a copy.  No way that guy just woke up and suddenly decided to drop a small fortune on a game.  That idea brewed and manifested itself in to something arguably crazy to an outsider.  On a sidenote, I do believe he was mistreated here, but I'll leave that for another day.  I'd love for him to chime in and tell us what lead him to that state.  I am not judging him at all.  I've been there myself. 

I recall spending $325 on a copy of Eliminate Down for the Mega Drive; killer game by the way, and I am happy to own it, but I had to psych myself out to get to that point.  Ever afterwards, I seriously regretted that purchase and felt like a tool for spending so much money on a game.  In hindsight, from a value perspective, it has worked out for me in that Eliminate Down has jumped up in value.  Will Eliminate Down hold is value in to the future?  I'd like to think so. 

My point is that great games, regardless of their age will hold their value.  I also challenge you guys to come back to this post in 10 to 15 years and rip me apart if I can't even give my copy of Eliminate Down away at that point because nobody gives a crap out antiquated video games.  :)

I'll be fifty 11 years. I will be playing all my video games. Still. I don't want to think about how fucking old I am. But I'll still be playing the damn things.

Quote from: esteban on 03/04/2014, 07:05 PMI'll be fifty 11 years. I will be playing all my video games. Still. I don't want to think about how fucking old I am. But I'll still be playing the damn things. 

You are an old rover. I am a fresh 37 years old, so I have way longer than you before I hit 50.

Quote from: esteban on 03/04/2014, 07:05 PMI'll be fifty 11 years. I will be playing all my video games. Still. I don't want to think about how fucking old I am. But I'll still be playing the damn things. 

Seconded

Quote from: Miracle_Warrior on 03/04/2014, 06:48 PMYou're not circle jerking around a Nintendo cart because it has 3 screws in it instead of 5. 

<zips pants in shame>

i guess we will just have to wait and see. Yes, there are still deals to be found but are just getting harder to find.

I'm a gamer first and foremost. I've been buying games for a long time, but honestly, I don't have very many. Perhaps one day emulation will be so good that people will care less about having the original. IMO we're not at the top of the peak because so many people don't know about game collecting. In my mind its still not very mainstream.

To think before eBay , the value was haut based on it's playability versus a friends other game for trade value! Or old ads like video game network or game dude that sold every game available back then. I think eBay has really wrecked everything , yea you can have access to almost any game but at a super high price and you have to compete with people who may just resell it or let it sit on a shelf.

Back in the day only one kid in the whole town ( not just neighborhood) had mega man 1. And it's trade value was crazy! You had to have 5 games if interest to him or no deal. I had the first copy of super Mario 2 in the neighborhood and it would regularly get traded with the kid who had the only copy of Zelda 2 ! But almost any other game would never cut it but lesser games would trade off easily.

I was the only one with a turbo and so there was no way to judge a value on it

Who says wii1 vc is getting shut off in May? I've yet to see that news please link if you can. I'm shocked!

This subject comes up once in a while. It's wishful thinking, it's stupid, and it ignores the lessons of history.

Better emulation and reproductions take a few sane people and gamers out of the rat race, but the increased exposure more than compensates with a new swarm of collectors and self-titled "Video Game Historians" who suddenly want what they didn't know existed a week before. The Virtual Console titles didn't make a dent in the secondary market. In fact, the VC's release coincided with what was arguably the first major TG16 inflation boom.

The 16-bit wars will be remembered as the "Golden Age" of video game history. The technology finally advanced enough for the games to become immersive, but it was limited enough to demand innovation.
The old games are collectable because they were largely ignored by adults and collectors.
The old games are collectable because kids threw away their boxes and beat the hell out of their carts.
The old games are collectable because they were weird and creative and we had a competitive market not yet dominated by Sony, Microsoft, Gamestop, Madden, and military recruitment propaganda.

Comparing similar eras from other "kids" collectables like comic books, baseball cards, and action figures gives us absolutely no reason to be optimistic. Men don't grow out of this stuff; they build man caves! The early stuff that was taken for granted by kids and ignored by adults is ALWAYS valuable, especially the smaller print runs/pressings, i.e. the TurboGrafx. Prices might come back down on semi-uncommon NES games selling for $50, the rare stuff will always get rarer. For every collector that sells his Magical Chase or boxed Turbochips to buy a house, there are ten more that just got their tax returns.

Quote from: guest on 03/08/2014, 01:16 PMFor every collector that sells his Magical Chase or boxed Turbochips to buy a house, there are ten more that just got their tax returns.

Scares the shite outta me.

honestly i don't think it will take as long as most here, just a couple yrs tops. reason being i believe its hot cause the low number to complete the US set makes it attractive, but then as the prices go up the people that bought 30-40 of the games at high prices will make them say F it and sell then more sell and the market "floods"....but the games will never be crazy low again because too many people know of its greatness so prices will drop but the good ole days of $10 TG games is prob gone....and this all comes from my experience in the NES the library is so much bigger it took longer but The Punisher and other mid level games are great examples of this...that came was close to the 100 mark CIB but now is 30ish CIB. why cause the people my age that nes was their first console are not the new collectors and the snes kids are finally not the newbies its on to the n64 ps1 people and saturn so the nes seems tired to them i know more than a few collectors that don't touch nes unless they can flip it. but it could all be in my head as i have hit it more than a few times, lol

Quote from: guest on 03/08/2014, 01:16 PMThis subject comes up once in a while. It's wishful thinking, it's stupid, and it ignores the lessons of history.

damn, i was a lot more optimistic before reading this post.

having been collecting TG stuff for 12 - 15 years i seriously doubt the price will go down.  Prices have increased stupidly ( but really only recently ).  just a a short 5 years ago MC was still only getting a couple of hundred, boxed complete games for 600 ish or less, i remember thinking who the hell justifies 600 for a game!! ... the 8500 or so they get now has really only been recently, the CD games always were more expensive, but you could always find a deal, my sealed daynastic hero was 50 bucks, i bought two at the time, one to trade one to keep, the trade got me bonk 3 cd.. i was happy.. but now days 1400 for dynastic hero, 8500 for MC, 800 for Terraforming, 400 for bonk 3.. 600 for a sealed LOHT.. WTF crazy crazy crazy.. i wouldn't be able to even consider a common tg collection let alone the rare games in todays market.   I questioned the $60 i paid for a MC manual, and the trade i made for a cardboard box.  but i wouldnt even fathom trying to get MC now days if i didnt already have it. 

my signature has the items id like to get in mint condition ( because i do collect and i do like mint items ), but those items have been on the list for YEARS... im not going to pay a small fortune.. i'll get lucky one day.. i think the time factor has caused the pricing to sky rocket, instacollectors, must have it all today and dont care what it costs..

But its the same for all systems i guess. what i find frustrating is im a Dragon Warrior fan, love that game, and i try and buy dragon warrior stuff, unfortunately it was a nintendo game aswell, so you end up trying to battle with nintendo collectors, of which there are a million and of that million it seems 50% are insanely rich!.  makes it hard to get some of the stuff for a game series i like. i figure the ones who cant complete a nintendo collection are not starting to eye the turbo grafx.. much easier to find if you have the money, where as the Nintendo stuff seems to be hard to find.

No.

Everyone here has or soon will have their systems recapped. Many more people are just going to throw their systems out when the caps go, unaware it can be fixed.

The price of systems will be much worse in 3-5 years.

Quote from: synbiosfan on 04/22/2014, 05:23 PMMany more people are just going to throw their systems out when the caps go, unaware it can be fixed.

lol what?  Where are you getting that from?

Quote from: Lochlan on 04/22/2014, 05:41 PM

Quote from: synbiosfan on 04/22/2014, 05:23 PMMany more people are just going to throw their systems out when the caps go, unaware it can be fixed.

lol what?  Where are you getting that from?

He probably means kids who had a Turbo/Duo growing up but didn't stick with it to become the fans that we are. I could see some of them dig a system out to relive some memories and when the caps go they'll just toss it aside and forget about it again. It'll probably never see the light of day again keeping it out of circulation.

Quote from: Lochlan on 04/22/2014, 05:41 PM

Quote from: synbiosfan on 04/22/2014, 05:23 PMMany more people are just going to throw their systems out when the caps go, unaware it can be fixed.

lol what?  Where are you getting that from?

You see it every trash day where I live. People throwing away appliances that probably just need to be opened and a fuse replaced.

Mathius understood sorry you didn't but that's what I'm getting at. Someone will clean out their attic or basement, find it and go oh yeah, I remember this. When they hook it up and it's dead, they'll toss it. We're talking the average person here and not a site member obviously.

Every year systems and games are tossed by people who are clueless to the worth of the items, have to move and can't be bothered, their kids or pet fuck it up, fires, floods, you name it.

Quote from: synbiosfan on 04/22/2014, 08:03 PM

Quote from: Lochlan on 04/22/2014, 05:41 PM

Quote from: synbiosfan on 04/22/2014, 05:23 PMMany more people are just going to throw their systems out when the caps go, unaware it can be fixed.

lol what?  Where are you getting that from?

You see it every trash day where I live. People throwing away appliances that probably just need to be opened and a fuse replaced.

Mathius understood sorry you didn't but that's what I'm getting at. Someone will clean out their attic or basement, find it and go oh yeah, I remember this. When they hook it up and it's dead, they'll toss it. We're talking the average person here and not a site member obviously.

Every year systems and games are tossed by people who are clueless to the worth of the items, have to move and can't be bothered, their kids or pet fuck it up, fires, floods, you name it.

I did this with my Sega Genesis and Game Gear.  They aren't valuable enough to bother getting fixed, so when they didn't work after I pulled them out of storage, they went in the trash.

I would probably do the same with most systems, short of Duos and Lasetactives, because they are more costly.

We live in the post-ebay world where NWC cart prices are national news.  I think pretty much everybody knows to look on eBay for pricing, I would be shocked if somebody threw out a Duo without googling it or checking on eBay.  And let's not forget that we are talking about people in our generation.

Quote from: Lochlan on 04/22/2014, 08:20 PMWe live in the post-ebay world where NWC cart prices are national news.  I think pretty much everybody knows to look on eBay for pricing, I would be shocked if somebody threw out a Duo without googling it or checking on eBay.  And let's not forget that we are talking about people in our generation.

If the sale of a TG-16 system makes national news, I'll apologize :P

Quote from: synbiosfan on 04/22/2014, 08:38 PM

Quote from: Lochlan on 04/22/2014, 08:20 PMWe live in the post-ebay world where NWC cart prices are national news.  I think pretty much everybody knows to look on eBay for pricing, I would be shocked if somebody threw out a Duo without googling it or checking on eBay.  And let's not forget that we are talking about people in our generation.

If the sale of a TG-16 system makes national news, I'll apologize :P

But it's a great point. This world has become so Collectible crazed it's almost disturbing. Like people with "RARE" games. The funny thing is that in most cases, the rare games are so terrible they will stay sealed because nobody in their right minds will ever want to play them. I am not saying that there aren't exceptions to the rule, but yeah. Rarer systems like the PC Engine, or more specifically, the Turbografx 16 I don't see going down in price any time soon. Might stabilize as I am sure the gaming bubble will pop one day, but I just don't see the prices dropping all that much from where they are artificially inflated to now.

To bring something I already mentioned in some other thread:

Videogame consoles (the less common ones) are now like vintage cars. Expensive, some models prone to damage like british sports cars, sought after and becoming more and more - to stress a sellers term - "rare".

Add a video channel on the web devoted to "forgotten" systems, a magazine report on here and there, 20+ years and there you go:

Prices are upping. And they will keep upping. EOL.

Thats the uncomfortable truth.

I admit I don´t like it - but I honestly don´t think it´s going to change the other way.

I am sure that quite a few people have seen toy hunter.... This is just another fact that even if the systems are getting older as are we, these prices will only rise over time. Look at some of the toys even before our time. Some of the older mego's and such command a absurd amount of money. Those toys were gaudy at best, but look at the value they hold. Video games you can at least go play and pass them down to your kids as retro gaming. A toy in a package is nothing more than a trophy to look at. Just like a mint in box unplayed game.

Quote from: madboom0522 on 05/26/2014, 11:31 AMI am sure that quite a few people have seen toy hunter....

Never heard of it before, just watched an episode on youtube, was quite entertaining.

Quote from: madboom0522 on 05/26/2014, 11:31 AMI am sure that quite a few people have seen toy hunter....

I don't miss an episode. As entertaining and educative as Pawn Stars, Storage Wars, etc.

At least with videogames (most of the time) you get to play them thanks to the magic of emulation.

Fun Stuff.

http://youtu.be/wQCTzqgNu6Q

Quote from: esadajr on 05/27/2014, 02:14 PMPawn Stars

I love this show, Chumlee FTW!

I am just getting in to Turbo-grafx collecting and it is extremely hard with the crazy prices right now

Quote from: Lochlan on 04/22/2014, 08:20 PMWe live in the post-ebay world where NWC cart prices are national news.  I think pretty much everybody knows to look on eBay for pricing, I would be shocked if somebody threw out a Duo without googling it or checking on eBay.  And let's not forget that we are talking about people in our generation.

You might be right to some degree, but what about the grandparents who have no idea what the internet is. I have all too often heard the stories of someone throwing out a small gold mine in toys, games, etc just because they are under informed or the kids who do look to turn a buck with them are not around at the time of the trashing :-(

Quote from: Ninja16608 on 05/28/2014, 02:26 PM

Quote from: Lochlan on 04/22/2014, 08:20 PMWe live in the post-ebay world where NWC cart prices are national news.  I think pretty much everybody knows to look on eBay for pricing, I would be shocked if somebody threw out a Duo without googling it or checking on eBay.  And let's not forget that we are talking about people in our generation.

You might be right to some degree, but what about the grandparents who have no idea what the internet is. I have all too often heard the stories of someone throwing out a small gold mine in toys, games, etc just because they are under informed or the kids who do look to turn a buck with them are not around at the time of the trashing :-(

My parents didn't do that with games cause I played them, but they did however get rid of some of my "original" star wars figures at a garage sale in the late 80's.  Some were out of the box so really not worth a ton even today, but they did get rid of a boxed (vinyl version) Jawa.  I believe they gave all of them to some dude for $20.

***this is a repost from a conversation I had with DarkKobold on a different thread, and I stand by my thoughts/analysis of the whole game collecting boom***


From, jordan_hillman:

"Investments/business models based purely on speculation always have their bubbles burst. Game collecting is what comic book collecting was in the 90s, and that bubble burst bad! Once everyone "cashes" in on their "investments" the market will fall hard and fast, and the people who actually give a shit about owning games for the sole purpose of enjoying them will benefit."


From, DarkKobold:

"The situation isn't really the same. My understanding is that during the comic bubble burst, the recently released "collector's edition" comics, variant covers, and the fake-limited release comics had massive losses in value. The things that were truly collector's items, such as the first appearances of Wolverine, Superman, Spider-man, Hulk, and etc, were barely scratched by the bubble burst everyone loves to reflect on. Apparently, most "silver-age" comics were left untouched by this burst.

I think the equivalent would be thinks like "Xenoblade Chronicles" and the glut of recent collectors editions of games. Games from the 8bit through 32bit era won't be affected by the crash, because they are actually difficult to find. While yes, some people are hoarding Magical Chases and other rarities, it isn't going to prevent the price from continuing to go crazy.

As much as everyone wants people to stop treating video games like an investment, it just won't happen. Once real money gets involved, so do all the shitty parts of humanity that comes with it. This includes investments, market manipulation, fake games, eBay scams, and the like.

As ultimately depressing my post sounds, there is a silver lining. An everdrive costs around 100 bucks, and lets you play all these insanely expensive games for a one time purchase. If it really is about playing the game, and not the joy of ownership of the original hucard, than that should be sufficient."


From, jordan_hillman:

"It's definitely not a 1:1 comparison (the comic crash and the current video game collecting boom) but there are still a lot of valid comparisons. For example, the current glut of collectors editions, special editions, games with low print runs with subsequent reprints (as you mentioned Xenoblade Chronicles) are certainly the equivalent of the 90s X-Forces, Spider-Mans, and X-Men number ones. However, other than the clear exceptions you mentioned before (Amazing Fantasy 15, Hulk 181, Action Comics 1, Detective Comics 27), the value of several books, first appearances, and story lines of key silver age characters were effected by the 90s comic crash as well (e.g. the Phoenix Saga, early Avengers issues--until the releases of the current movies--and first appearances of C-level heroes and villains who were re-introduced/remodeled in the 90s). The "rarity" and "importance" of those "key" issues (other than the clear exceptions of first appearances of Spider-Man and the like) mirrors the "rarity" and "importance" of "key" titles like MC, Legend of Hero Tonma, and the like.

And the only thing that kept the value of legitimate key silver age and golden age books high, even throughout the 90s burst, was the fact that these characters had firmly implanted themselves in the fabric of pop-culture and generations of people's childhoods. Current niche system and game collecting (e.g. the Turbografx, Sega Saturn, Jaguar, etc.) do not have the benefit of having a wide sense of value and importance among the general populous; basically turbo collecting, and its value herein, is only valuable and relevant to that small niche of collectors who find it valuable and relevant. So when a small niche is buying and promptly reselling games for a profit (even if that profit is slim), and when subsequent buyers are quickly buying them up before the "value" goes up anymore, it's an unsustainable business model that will collapse on itself eventually. And the "ultra rares" like MC and Legend of Hero Tonma, although they will certainly retain a decent value, are not going to have the benefit of a general population of people understanding the importance and rarity of these titles.

Don't get me wrong; video game collecting isn't going anywhere, and speculative collecting of any good or service certainly isn't going anywhere. However, there isn't a single market, commodity, good, or service that can maintain a continuous upward trajectory driven almost entirely on speculation."

QuoteAnd the only thing that kept the value of legitimate key silver age and golden age books high, even throughout the 90s burst, was the fact that these characters had firmly implanted themselves in the fabric of pop-culture and generations of people's childhoods.

Is More Fun Comics #52 worth so much money because America can't get enough of The Spectre?

There are plenty of obscure and valuable comic books, just like there are plenty of obscure and valuable video games.  Neither popularity, quality, nor rarity dictate value by themselves, but all are influencing factors.

Quotethe "ultra rares" like MC and Legend of Hero Tonma, although they will certainly retain a decent value, are not going to have the benefit of a general population of people understanding the importance and rarity of these titles.

The general population doesn't have to care about these obscure games, only the market of vintage games collectors needs to care to maintain values--much like with our friend Mr. More Fun Comics #52.

QuoteHowever, there isn't a single market, commodity, good, or service that can maintain a continuous upward trajectory driven almost entirely on speculation.

T206 Honus Wagner says "'sup?"

Quote from: kof1996 on 05/28/2014, 12:53 PMI am just getting in to Turbo-grafx collecting and it is extremely hard with the crazy prices right now

Go make an introduction, yes? Do that....alot...

*demon face*

Goooooo!!!!!!!

lol

Quote from: Lochlan on 05/28/2014, 09:38 PMIs More Fun Comics #52 worth so much money because America can't get enough of The Spectre?

There are plenty of obscure and valuable comic books, just like there are plenty of obscure and valuable video games.  Neither popularity, quality, nor rarity dictate value by themselves, but all are influencing factors.

The general population doesn't have to care about these obscure games, only the market of vintage games collectors needs to care to maintain values--much like with our friend Mr. More Fun Comics #52.

T206 Honus Wagner says "'sup?"

My apologies for not including the golden age of comics in my first response. The Spectre was definitely a popular character in his time (and maintains a cult following), and the initial rise in that comic's value was due to the popularity of that character for those that grew up reading comics during the 30s and 40s. From there, the overall collectibility of golden age comics has become a pop culture phenomenon in-and-of-itself, along with the continued pop-culture relevance of several of those characters, and the legitimate scarcity of any surviving golden age comic in any condition, along with the famous T206 Honus Wagner baseball card (or any surviving card from that era of baseball) has resulted in collectors willing to pay top dollar for comics and baseball cards in good condition. Baseball and comics (especially their respective golden ages and baseball's dead ball era) have, and continue to have, huge influences on pop-culture and collector culture, especially those with deep pockets.

When the scarcity of video games, rare or not, in functioning condition hits the level of golden age comics and dead ball era baseball cards in fair or decent condition, then, and only then, video games will turn into investments and not a market driven by mere speculation. The driving force behind the "value" of these games is collectors speculating on future increases in value in order to quickly flip or to cash in on their "investment" in the future when the market has peaked. When that happens the video game market will get a huge influx of "rare" titles, and many people will loose money on their investments, especially if they buy right before the cash-in. Speculative economic practices always end in the same way, with the only differences being the length of the speculation period, the severity of the crash, and the length of the recovery.

Now let's all enjoy some us some TG!  :D

Quote from: Lochlan on 05/28/2014, 09:38 PMT206 Honus Wagner says "'sup?"

That should answer the question.

Quote from: kof1996 on 05/28/2014, 12:53 PMI am just getting in to Turbo-grafx collecting and it is extremely hard with the crazy prices right now

Can I ask why?


Why the turbo?


I am not being snide or sarcastic (apart from my typical persona).

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 05/31/2014, 03:38 AM

Quote from: kof1996 on 05/28/2014, 12:53 PMI am just getting in to Turbo-grafx collecting and it is extremely hard with the crazy prices right now

Can I ask why?


Why the turbo?

I am not being snide or sarcastic (apart from my typical persona).

Unless he's a collectard, why not the Turbo? The homebrew needs to sell!

I now say no.  No, because people "finally" realize how awesome Turbo games are.  People want to buy said turbo games.  Gougers realize people love the Turbo.  Gougers love that "new turbo players" don't know two shits of what something is worth.  So, gougers get their price.

Quote from: esteban on 02/24/2014, 10:16 PMQ: Will there ever be a TG-16 price crash?
A: No.

DITTO!

As long as you have big spenders around that still haven't gotten all the originals that they want, then no. The last Magical Chase auction showed that there are two nuts out there that were willing to spend $7000 and $7100. One guy won the auction, so he has it, but the other guy that lost broadcast a message to the world that he's still out there and willing to spend $7000 on the next MC that'll come along... What kind of BIN is the next person gonna set with a copy of MC if they decide to sell it ? Even a year or two from now, they're gonna wanna find that loser from that last auction... In short, how could some sort of crash ever be predicted ? It's just wishful thinking.

Quote from: guest on 05/31/2014, 03:53 AM

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 05/31/2014, 03:38 AM

Quote from: kof1996 on 05/28/2014, 12:53 PMI am just getting in to Turbo-grafx collecting and it is extremely hard with the crazy prices right now

Can I ask why?


Why the turbo?

I am not being snide or sarcastic (apart from my typical persona).

Unless he's a collectard, why not the Turbo? The homebrew needs to sell!

I am interested to see what interested him in the system.


We have to admit the TG-16 is not a partially talked about system for most any collector to be into.
Not when you can go for a system that most people actually owned as kids that being Nintendo or sega.

I for one was interred by reviews on YouTube that spida did (turbo-reviews) which lead to my picking up a system and some games off craigslist.  Mind you at the time it happened so easily almost like serendipity I thought initaly. Oh this must be easy to find since no one is interested or know what this is!   NOPE since then I have never come upon one of these in the wild again apart from eBay and litterly one regular seller I buy off of who had decent prices for a few games I bought that he had trouble moving. Unfortunately I went to pick up a few more games on day and he had sold the entire lot to one guy.

It wasn't until that first system and hand full of games as I sat there and played Bonk I realized I did know someone when I was a kid who had it...and never let me play it...  Older cousin who always got what he wanted but luckily I rarely saw as he lived in Dallas TX.....so getting to finally try that system out was very fun....like scratching a itch you couldnt reach.  From there I just want to enjoy it....find those games that are as interesting unique and fun that those who only focus on Nintendo and sega will never expiriance.

Quote from: NightWolve on 05/31/2014, 09:03 AMAs long as you have big spenders around that still haven't gotten all the originals that they want, then no. The last Magical Chase auction showed that there are two nuts out there that were willing to spend $7000 and $7100. One guy won the auction, so he has it, but the other guy that lost broadcast a message to the world that he's still out there and willing to spend $7000 on the next MC that'll come along... What kind of BIN is the next person gonna set with a copy of MC if they decide to sell it ? Even a year or two from now, they're gonna wanna find that loser from that last auction... In short, how could some sort of crash ever be predicted ? It's just wishful thinking.

Not just that, the next guys that come along and decides they need Magical Chase CIB, will think "I'd better bid $8,100, just to be safe."

I don't think the majority of people who spend obscene amounts on games think "This will be worth double soon!" as much as "I can at least get my money back if I decide to sell, and if I don't buy now, I'll have to spend double later." What would cause the crash would be the indication that collectors could not get their money back- They'd try and dump things on the market as fast as possible, which would cause the price to drop, as no one would buy. Declining prices would indicate that you couldn't get your money back.

That said, Comic Books had a catalyst to cause the crash - Marvel declaring bankruptcy. I don't know what would be the catalyst to cause the video game collector crash.

I haven't posted here, or viewed this board in a while, but thought I'd contribute here.

Prices, I feel, will go down, but I don't think too much. it's all very hard to predict.

I think in one of my last posts here, I mentioned I recall prices being tolerable before the TG16 stuff was introduced on the Wii. After that, I noticed TG-16 going up in price, faster than before. It had more exposure, more people knew of it.

Also, other points are made, about people who had this stuff as a kid, wanting it again, or to complete their collection, and having bigger wallets now, etc.

What led me to the board today, was I was thinking back on bullseye's horrible listings, the Canadian scammer, I also found out today what happened to someone I did some good trades with, and purchases, Turbografx16central. I knew he close dup in 2006, but never knew why. I found out he decided he was tired of the TG-16 collection, and sold it all as a BIN on ebay. Bullseye bought it. $3,500 for 100+ games, and some hardware. So, this seemed to be someone who picked up the hobby quick, then dumped it quick.

I have a feeling there is a lot of that out there, the people new to the system who want an instant collection, or as much as possible, as quickly as possible. The people who want to show off that they have a, "Super rare game", etc.

There are some people who had TG-16 for years, with it since the late 80s, early 90s, etc. Then, there are the people who just get into it, and really like it, or get into it, just to get into it.

I have a feeling, what will change prices quite a bit, is when collections start getting dumped.

TG-16 became a bit more, "rare" after TZD shut down. Those copies of World Sports competition sat there for years. Then, after TZD was gone, prices went up on that rather quick. Same goes for controllers, and other stuff they had in stock 'til the end.

10 years from now, 2025 or so, I'll be curious how things are. Magical Chase, while it may not ever go below $1k again, I really wonder if it will increase the same percentage. I recall about 10 years ago, ebay, a CIB Magical Chase, $600. 10 years later, I read here, it recently sold for $7,100? That's an increase of almost 12 times, in 10 years. I don't think in another 10 years, that game will appreciate another 12 times to $86,400.

Nothing much else to do, but see what happens, what big sellers will stop on ebay, what collections get dumped, and what will the limit be that people are willing to pay for certain things.

One thing that doesn't help "collectable" prices is ebay and the change in listing fees for unsold auctions. Resellers can put up inflated BIN listings and just sit on it, relisting it over and over at no cost without lowering the price hoping for someone to get impatient. Since the whole world is connected now, everything basically runs off the inflated ebay prices.

Auctions aren't fool proof (shill bids), but they are much better at finding the "true" price of an item based on the bidders at that particular time, i.e. just because an auction finished at $50 on Monday doesn't mean that's it's worth for an auction on Friday.

There is a good side to "bad" reviews!

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 06/18/2014, 05:07 PMThere is a good side to "bad" reviews!

Love the site! I've read it for many years now. Good to meet you.

Like I've said before you have two or so different kind of collectors. Those who have less love and appreciation for the systems and games themselves, and those like most of us that DO love and appreciate them. The former will most likely get tired of their collections once they become a hindrance, while the rest of us continue to marvel at these 8 and 16 bit machines. Their histories. At one point in the future I believe we who are in this for the right reasons will remain. Let's hope that is sooner than later.

There will be a point where prices slow this huge rise they've been doing. Certain items will always be high priced, but I can't see 10 years from now, like in the example I made, "Magical Chase" going for almost $85K in 2025 or so. Then again, it could!

Vestcunt, in an earlier page, also mentions he noticed the prices rise sharply when the TG-16 stuff became available for the Wii. Same thing I noticed, and has been mentioned here before. All fo a sudden the TG-16 had a lot more exposure. It was a system, where even people who grew up during that time weren't familiar with it.

The way some prices are right now, there is a lot of stuff I wouldn't touch. Even about 10 years ago, when I wanted a system modded for S-Video and such, I went with a Duo-R, not only because I've noticed they tend to have less problems, but also the price.

The same with Neo Geo. I don't mess with AES. MVS only for me. I'll let other people play with those crazy prices.

Speaking of people who dump collections, I remember a guy here, I can't recall the name, back in 2006 or so, he spray painted his Duo-R black? He posted here for about a year after he started buying TG-16 again. Then, he sold it all on ebay.

Video game collectors are an insane breed.  The problem with game collectors is that many games are based solely on the limited print run and less to do with the quality of the game.  Games like nba 2k7 go up in value because it was a last run game for ps2, and for no other reason.  Many games do not reflect actual value, and only after we stop collecting does the actual market come into play.  So many tg16 ebay auctions are buy it now, simply to keep the value of some from plumetting.  No one will care about some of these games after our generation.  Dungeon explorer ii, neutopia ii, and others are way over priced and arent really that greAt.  Expect them to drop to half value or more in the next ten years or so.  Nes and snes are already starting to bottom out to atari 2600 levels.  Expect only a handful of actual valuable games, and dont expect anything from this era to be collectable.

Quote from: neopolss on 06/18/2014, 10:38 PMand dont expect anything from this era to be collectable.

I never expected video games would be collectible period.

Quote from: neopolss on 06/18/2014, 10:38 PMVideo game collectors are an insane breed.  The problem with game collectors is that many games are based solely on the limited print run and less to do with the quality of the game.  Games like nba 2k7 go up in value because it was a last run game for ps2, and for no other reason.  Many games do not reflect actual value, and only after we stop collecting does the actual market come into play.  So many tg16 ebay auctions are buy it now, simply to keep the value of some from plumetting.  No one will care about some of these games after our generation.  Dungeon explorer ii, neutopia ii, and others are way over priced and arent really that greAt.  Expect them to drop to half value or more in the next ten years or so.  Nes and snes are already starting to bottom out to atari 2600 levels.  Expect only a handful of actual valuable games, and dont expect anything from this era to be collectable.

Dungeon Explorer II is a nice game, bro!

Same goes for NEUTOPIA II.

 :pcgs:

Quote from: neopolss on 06/18/2014, 10:38 PMVideo game collectors are an insane breed.  The problem with game collectors is that many games are based solely on the limited print run and less to do with the quality of the game.  Games like nba 2k7 go up in value because it was a last run game for ps2, and for no other reason.  Many games do not reflect actual value, and only after we stop collecting does the actual market come into play.  So many tg16 ebay auctions are buy it now, simply to keep the value of some from plumetting.  No one will care about some of these games after our generation.  Dungeon explorer ii, neutopia ii, and others are way over priced and arent really that greAt.  Expect them to drop to half value or more in the next ten years or so.  Nes and snes are already starting to bottom out to atari 2600 levels.  Expect only a handful of actual valuable games, and dont expect anything from this era to be collectable. 

I gotta disagree. Dungeon Explorer II is a stellar game, I think. ;-)

And I haven't seen NES and SNES games bottoming out yet. It's all overpriced still. $50 for Super Metroid loose is insane. I bought my complete boxed replacement copy off Amazon in '09 for around $20. My copy died on me for unknown reasons.

Quote from: esteban on 06/18/2014, 10:55 PM

Quote from: neopolss on 06/18/2014, 10:38 PMVideo game collectors are an insane breed.  The problem with game collectors is that many games are based solely on the limited print run and less to do with the quality of the game.  Games like nba 2k7 go up in value because it was a last run game for ps2, and for no other reason.  Many games do not reflect actual value, and only after we stop collecting does the actual market come into play.  So many tg16 ebay auctions are buy it now, simply to keep the value of some from plumetting.  No one will care about some of these games after our generation.  Dungeon explorer ii, neutopia ii, and others are way over priced and arent really that greAt.  Expect them to drop to half value or more in the next ten years or so.  Nes and snes are already starting to bottom out to atari 2600 levels.  Expect only a handful of actual valuable games, and dont expect anything from this era to be collectable.

Dungeon Explorer II is a nice game, bro!

Same goes for NEUTOPIA II.

 :pcgs:

Dude, I love Dungeon Explorer II. Epic music, translation and voice acting by the epic Working Designs, 5 player dungeon crawling... yeah, its awesome.

Neutopia II is sort of a Link to the Past lite. Its just a good game, with fun bosses and mechanics. Screw that stupid slime battle though.

Quote from: guest on 06/18/2014, 11:03 PMSome guy on one of the turbografx Facebook groups was going on and on about how he just has to own Beyond Shadowgate... then later revealed that he 1) thought the game was nothing special, and 2) did not own any type of pce/tg CD system.  He wanted it purely to put on a shelf.

That is beyond stupid(gate).

Quote from: Mathius on 06/18/2014, 10:59 PM

Quote from: neopolss on 06/18/2014, 10:38 PMVideo game collectors are an insane breed.  The problem with game collectors is that many games are based solely on the limited print run and less to do with the quality of the game.  Games like nba 2k7 go up in value because it was a last run game for ps2, and for no other reason.  Many games do not reflect actual value, and only after we stop collecting does the actual market come into play.  So many tg16 ebay auctions are buy it now, simply to keep the value of some from plumetting.  No one will care about some of these games after our generation.  Dungeon explorer ii, neutopia ii, and others are way over priced and arent really that greAt.  Expect them to drop to half value or more in the next ten years or so.  Nes and snes are already starting to bottom out to atari 2600 levels.  Expect only a handful of actual valuable games, and dont expect anything from this era to be collectable. 

I gotta disagree. Dungeon Explorer II is a stellar game, I think. ;-)

And I haven't seen NES and SNES games bottoming out yet. It's all overpriced still. $50 for Super Metroid loose is insane. I bought my complete boxed replacement copy off Amazon in '09 for around $20. My copy died on me for unknown reasons.

Quoted for Truth.

Nintendo stuff is ridiculous, and I see no signs of it bottoming out.  When you have loose carts that regularly in the $800-$1000 range that just defies all logic too me.  What I actually see now is more folks jumping from Nintendo to other systems purely because they're much more affordable to collect for.  Traditionally Genesis stuff has been really cheap (and I loved it), but prices on it are rising fast.  GnG for the Genesis is like a $30 game CIB now, WTF?!

Quote from: guest on 06/19/2014, 12:20 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 06/18/2014, 10:59 PM

Quote from: neopolss on 06/18/2014, 10:38 PMVideo game collectors are an insane breed.  The problem with game collectors is that many games are based solely on the limited print run and less to do with the quality of the game.  Games like nba 2k7 go up in value because it was a last run game for ps2, and for no other reason.  Many games do not reflect actual value, and only after we stop collecting does the actual market come into play.  So many tg16 ebay auctions are buy it now, simply to keep the value of some from plumetting.  No one will care about some of these games after our generation.  Dungeon explorer ii, neutopia ii, and others are way over priced and arent really that greAt.  Expect them to drop to half value or more in the next ten years or so.  Nes and snes are already starting to bottom out to atari 2600 levels.  Expect only a handful of actual valuable games, and dont expect anything from this era to be collectable. 

I gotta disagree. Dungeon Explorer II is a stellar game, I think. ;-)

And I haven't seen NES and SNES games bottoming out yet. It's all overpriced still. $50 for Super Metroid loose is insane. I bought my complete boxed replacement copy off Amazon in '09 for around $20. My copy died on me for unknown reasons.

Quoted for Truth.

Nintendo stuff is ridiculous, and I see no signs of it bottoming out.  When you have loose carts that regularly in the $800-$1000 range that just defies all logic too me.  What I actually see now is more folks jumping from Nintendo to other systems purely because they're much more affordable to collect for.  Traditionally Genesis stuff has been really cheap (and I loved it), but prices on it are rising fast.  GnG for the Genesis is like a $30 game CIB now, WTF?!

Thats why I have moved completly away from nintendo. Unless I find it on the cheap or at a local store I dont go looking for it on line to buy.

But now that I have gone mostly Sega it seems many more have as well which makes it feel like some mad dash to become more knowable about various sega platforms to weed out the fun games before they become uber "rare"

I didnt say dungeon explorer ii was terrible, its a good game, but it ain't $200 good.  Neutopia II is the same.  I find myself wanting to love it in order to justify the price.  As someone who works in a game store, most nes and snes are worthless, with about 20 to 30 titles worth a crap, and most of it entirely reasonable to have if you don't need box, manual,and other nonsense.  Even the overhyped earthbound is well within reason with box and manual.  Tg16 is nowhere near reasonable.  Its going to drop.  Not a question of if, but when.

If we're talking value no game is worth the prices retro games are going for nowadays. Dungeon Explorer II and Earthbound are both good games. They're just not $500 good. $100 good? Getting closer. Let's go for $50-$80 depending on condition. Now you are starting to get value for the experience the games offer. :)

Quote from: Mathius on 06/19/2014, 11:54 PMLet's go for $50-$80 depending on condition. Now you are starting to get value for the experience the games offer. :)

Totally wish that was a thing.

Quote from: MrFulci on 06/18/2014, 12:13 PMI have a feeling, what will change prices quite a bit, is when collections start getting dumped.

I absolutely agree. Collectors seem tend to drop their collections for a few reasons: (1) they're "cashing" in on their "investments" by selling when the market is very high or peaking; (2) their collection becomes a burden, they grow tired of it, or they give up on acquiring the allusive "full run" of a system's titles and sell it off; or, (3) they quickly flip games for quick profit.

Right now a lot of collectors have been posting a lot of the "rare" CD titles on eBay lately, and if you've been following what they've been selling for, the first couple copies of games like Bonk 3, Godzilla, Terraforming, Super Air Zonk, etc. sold for extremely high prices, and the next couple of auctions sold for sometimes as much as $100-150 less than the earlier auctions (I recall a copy of Bonk 3 going for close to $900 and a subsequent copy went for less than $750 only about a month or so later). Now I'm not saying that a system wide price crash is eminent (it's going to be quite a few years at least), but it goes to show that once collectors start dumping their collections in large quantities the price of "rare" games drops rather quickly. Once the majority of collectors are priced out by the ever increases in "value" of "rare" games--e.g. when the market's prices have "peaked"--frustrated collectors, along with resellers and flippers, will dump their collections, and prices will inevitably drop.

Once again, I am not saying that the market drop is eminent, or even somewhat close to happening, nor am I saying that the holy grail titles of TG collecting (Magical Chase, Dynastic Hero, etc.) will loose all of their value (they certainly won't). However, they will not be able to maintain their current upward trajectory of "value," and overall TG prices will drop sometime in the future.

I have legitimately given up on acquiring games for certain systems because of cost. Honestly I'm at a dead stand-still at the moment because I've got too big of a backlog of games to play and the Facebook re-seller bullshit is driving me insane.

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 06/22/2014, 11:16 PMI have legitimately given up on acquiring games for certain systems because of cost. Honestly I'm at a dead stand-still at the moment because I've got too big of a backlog of games to play and the Facebook re-seller bullshit is driving me insane.

They clog up the toilet that's for sure. I'm glad this site still acts as the plunger.

Quote from: Mathius on 06/22/2014, 11:45 PM

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 06/22/2014, 11:16 PMI have legitimately given up on acquiring games for certain systems because of cost. Honestly I'm at a dead stand-still at the moment because I've got too big of a backlog of games to play and the Facebook re-seller bullshit is driving me insane.

They clog up the toilet that's for sure. I'm glad this site still acts as the plunger.

Interesting analogy. Heh.

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 06/22/2014, 11:16 PMI have legitimately given up on acquiring games for certain systems because of cost. Honestly I'm at a dead stand-still at the moment because I've got too big of a backlog of games to play and the Facebook re-seller bullshit is driving me insane.

.   I agree. I've got plenty of retro stuff to keep me busy for some time, and with all the free games Microsoft is pumping out I'm buried!

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 06/22/2014, 11:16 PMI have legitimately given up on acquiring games for certain systems because of cost.

EU Sonic for SMS...UPC sticker is just not worth it, amirite!

Quote from: majors on 06/26/2014, 04:58 PM

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 06/22/2014, 11:16 PMI have legitimately given up on acquiring games for certain systems because of cost.

EU Sonic for SMS...UPC sticker is just not worth it, amirite!

Yes.

Quote from: majors on 06/26/2014, 04:58 PM

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 06/22/2014, 11:16 PMI have legitimately given up on acquiring games for certain systems because of cost.

EU Sonic for SMS...UPC sticker is just not worth it, amirite!

Eh. I just said fuck it and got the EU copy. Most sites that verify complete collections don't even factor the U.S. Sonic into the equation because it's too easy to spoof.

I was thinking more of domestic Sega Genesis, Super NES and Saturn games. Shit's getting ridiculous.

will there ever be???

look at the question....will there EVER be......???

of course......its like asking will humans will EVER be extinct

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 06/28/2014, 07:11 PMwill there ever be???

look at the question....will there EVER be......???

of course......its like asking will humans will EVER be extinct

Even when we are all dead. (lol) Turbo will still keep climbing in price for no reason just because life sucks.

After the coming apocalypse, cockroaches will be paying thousands of twinkies for a Magical Chase.  The cycle never ends.

I firmly believed there would be no price crash ever until today. Lots of people appear to be dumping their TG stuff now. I can't believe beemer is letting his collection go!

Quote from: guest on 06/30/2014, 12:17 PMAfter the coming apocalypse, cockroaches will be paying thousands of twinkies for a Magical Chase.  The cycle never ends.

lol

Quote from: Sadler on 06/30/2014, 12:22 PMI firmly believed there would be no price crash ever until today. Lots of people appear to be dumping their TG stuff now. I can't believe beemer is letting his collection go!

Hardly!  Just a bunch of the US stuff I havent been playing.  I've still got a few hundred PC engine games and as far as I know they're going no where!   I play that stuff all the time.  Its just that to play the US stuff I have to pull out the US system and deal with all that jazz...  I've still got a good 35 or so US games (all good ones mind you!) that get plenty of play and wont be going anywhere ;)

That's good to hear! :D

I won't pretend I haven't thought about loading up an everdrive and burning a stack of ISOs then letting a lot go. The truth is I don't play it near enough, but at the end of the day I'm a victim of nostalgia. It's worth it because I still grin like an idiot in my game room.

Quote from: Sadler on 07/01/2014, 08:57 PMThat's good to hear! :D

I won't pretend I haven't thought about loading up an everdrive and burning a stack of ISOs then letting a lot go. The truth is I don't play it near enough, but at the end of the day I'm a victim of nostalgia. It's worth it because I still grin like an idiot in my game room.

That's the interesting part...

with flash carts (specifically everdirves since they seem to have really fine-tuned it all) in any gaming library it adds a interesting dimension. 

-With a flash cart you can browse a games entire library without ever having to swap out the game from the system. 

-That relegates a gamer's library as a show piece as its regular and active use could become stagnate.

-Many gamers say "I just want to play the game on original hardware."  Then with the ever drive and a original system that effectively accomplished just that.  Theoretically eliminating the need to collect, store, or buy the games in a systems library. 


I understand some buy the flash cart to test out games that are pricy then make a more informed choice on purchasing it.  Makes sense, but still doesn't eliminate the fact that buying the physical copy is no different then the meth you are playing it as you are still using original hardware (no emulation).

I fear that once I do pick up everdirves for each of my systems I'll end up leaving my games untouched sitting on shelves looking pretty but never being used.  But I also cannot deny the desire, usefulness, and practicality of a flash cart.   


For those who have a everdrive (be it for the TG-16 or other systems, and still collect for said system what are your thoughts?

Do you still take a game off your shelf that is already on the flashcart and play it? 

Or has the flashcart become a perminite fixture on your system?

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 07/02/2014, 09:26 AMbuying the physical copy is no different then the meth

Precisely.  :lol:

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 07/02/2014, 09:26 AMFor those who have a everdrive (be it for the TG-16 or other systems, and still collect for said system what are your thoughts?

Do you still take a game off your shelf that is already on the flashcart and play it? 

Or has the flashcart become a perminite fixture on your system?

It's not difficult or time consuming to pull a game off the shelf and pop it in, so I only use my flashcart for translated roms or stuff I don't own. 

I do the same as Necro. Like I said in my recent video the E.D. is great for games like Magical Chase, Coryoon, Bonk III, etc. where owning such a game just isn't logical at this time. I have the Mega Everdrive that gets used the same way. It's just a supplement. It hasn't diminished the importance of my physical game library.

Quote from: guest on 07/02/2014, 10:38 AM

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 07/02/2014, 09:26 AMbuying the physical copy is no different then the meth

Precisely.  :lol:

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 07/02/2014, 09:26 AMFor those who have a everdrive (be it for the TG-16 or other systems, and still collect for said system what are your thoughts?

Do you still take a game off your shelf that is already on the flashcart and play it? 

Or has the flashcart become a perminite fixture on your system?

It's not difficult or time consuming to pull a game off the shelf and pop it in, so I only use my flashcart for translated roms or stuff I don't own.

(https://web.archive.org/web/20150326005303im_/http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/muppetsmethanimal.jpg)

Quote from: guest on 07/02/2014, 10:38 AM

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 07/02/2014, 09:26 AMbuying the physical copy is no different then the meth

Precisely.  :lol:

Beat me to it.

Also.

Everytime that I see "E.D." I think Erectile Dysfunction. Hmm...

Ever Drive.... Erectile Dysfunction....
Ever Drive.... Erectile Dysfunction.....
Ever D.... okay I'll stop. :3

I was thinking the other day. If price crash happens and all the systems and games start to cost cheaper than socks (for example like $5 for games and $20 for systems), it will not be challenging and fun to collect anything. I really wanna play some of the rare and expensive titles on the actual system and not just emulators, so if I can just go and buy Order of Griffon for 10 bucks for me that is not challenging as to find that game in a hidden auction or at a flea market or garage sale.

So while I really want the price crash to happen so I can go and buy anything I want, at the same time maybe a price crash can be very bad for the collecting community. It can make things so cheap and easy, it will dissolve the collectors base and no one will care or give a fuck.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 11:23 AMI was thinking the other day. If price crash happens and all the systems and games start to cost cheaper than socks (for example like $5 for games and $20 for systems), it will not be challenging and fun to collect anything. I really wanna play some of the rare and expensive titles on the actual system and not just emulators, so if I can just go and buy Order of Griffon for 10 bucks for me that is not challenging as to find that game in a hidden auction or at a flea market or garage sale.

Good luck finding late TTi releases in "teh wild".

QuoteSo while I really want the price crash to happen so I can go and buy anything I want, at the same time maybe a price crash can be very bad for the collecting community. It can make things so cheap and easy, it will dissolve the collectors base and no one will care or give a fuck.

/ugiP0aM.png

Quote from: HailingTheThings on 07/03/2014, 12:10 AM

Quote from: guest on 07/02/2014, 10:38 AM

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 07/02/2014, 09:26 AMbuying the physical copy is no different then the meth

Precisely.  :lol:

Beat me to it.

Also.

Everytime that I see "E.D." I think Erectile Dysfunction. Hmm...

Ever Drive.... Erectile Dysfunction....
Ever Drive.... Erectile Dysfunction.....
Ever D.... okay I'll stop. :3

I am seansing a little transference in your comments

A price crash will dissolve the collector base, make collecting games that you want less challenging and fun ?? Interesting. Maybe Las Vegas would be more your thing if you want "big-spending fun." All I see happening is people that want to own originals will be able to get them finally. If the roller coaster of auctions and what not is where you found "fun" perhaps you were in it for not the best of reasons and there'll always be other systems/products to fill such needs anyway... Silly.

When I get to play a rare and expensive title my first emotion is usually "Oh wow! I am actually playing 'blank!'" This is soon followed by sadness when I realize some people who actually *want* to play it probably won't get the chance.

Edit: The high price of collecting is doing way more harm than good for the above reason. It's depressing to think that some people might not get the chance to own some "rare" games they had as a child/teen.

Quote from: Mathius on 07/04/2014, 01:35 PMWhen I get to play a rare and expensive title my first emotion is usually "Oh wow! I am actually playing 'blank!'" This is soon followed by sadness when I realize some people who actually *want* to play it probably won't get the chance.

Edit: The high price of collecting is doing way more harm than good for the above reason. It's depressing to think that some people might not get the chance to own some "rare" games they had as a child/teen.

What bugs me more is the price hike on non "rare" games....


There is a difference npbetween popular and rare.....


And with the shift of gamers buying the cheaper Japan version is quickly no longer an alternative.

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 07/04/2014, 06:28 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 07/04/2014, 01:35 PMWhen I get to play a rare and expensive title my first emotion is usually "Oh wow! I am actually playing 'blank!'" This is soon followed by sadness when I realize some people who actually *want* to play it probably won't get the chance.

Edit: The high price of collecting is doing way more harm than good for the above reason. It's depressing to think that some people might not get the chance to own some "rare" games they had as a child/teen.

What bugs me more is the price hike on non "rare" games....


There is a difference npbetween popular and rare.....


And with the shift of gamers buying the cheaper Japan version is quickly no longer an alternative.

My panties are now bunched.

no i'm not a collector.  I wish a price crash would happen so I can get the games I want. All I did was point out that hobby will  die out if things are not desirable "expensive" anymore.

Quote from: Nulltard on 07/04/2014, 11:34 AM

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 11:23 AMI was thinking the other day. If price crash happens and all the systems and games start to cost cheaper than socks (for example like $5 for games and $20 for systems), it will not be challenging and fun to collect anything. I really wanna play some of the rare and expensive titles on the actual system and not just emulators, so if I can just go and buy Order of Griffon for 10 bucks for me that is not challenging as to find that game in a hidden auction or at a flea market or garage sale.

So while I really want the price crash to happen so I can go and buy anything I want, at the same time maybe a price crash can be very bad for the collecting community. It can make things so cheap and easy, it will dissolve the collectors base and no one will care or give a fuck.

uhm.... are you the same guy who joined in on the wmac bashfest? You realize that your beliefs as stated above align you with wmac, no?

In my opinion, there is no way that less expensive obey is bad for those who obey. I don't get how that can be bad for anyone who actually cares about the system and games and enjoys playing them. I couldn't care less if stamp, coin, and card collectors opt out of lining their shelves with pce/tg16 stuff.

I said I want the price crash to happen. No need to panic. Everything is ok.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 08:12 PMno i'm not a collector.  I wish a price crash would happen so I can get the games I want. All I did was point out that hobby will  die out if things are not desirable "expensive" anymore.

Hmmm...

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 07/04/2014, 11:58 AM

Quote from: HailingTheThings on 07/03/2014, 12:10 AM

Quote from: guest on 07/02/2014, 10:38 AM

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 07/02/2014, 09:26 AMbuying the physical copy is no different then the meth

Precisely.  :lol:

Beat me to it.

Also.

Everytime that I see "E.D." I think Erectile Dysfunction. Hmm...

Ever Drive.... Erectile Dysfunction....
Ever Drive.... Erectile Dysfunction.....
Ever D.... okay I'll stop. :3

I am seansing a little transference in your comments

You're a seansing a little transference in your commetns

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 11:23 AMSo while I really want the price crash to happen so I can go and buy anything I want, at the same time maybe a price crash can be very bad for the collecting community. It can make things so cheap and easy, it will dissolve the collectors base and no one will care or give a fuck.

Good.  Fuck the "collecting community".

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 11:23 AMSo while I really want the price crash to happen so I can go and buy anything I want, at the same time maybe a price crash can be very bad for the collecting community. It can make things so cheap and easy, it will dissolve the collectors base and no one will care or give a fuck.

Oh no! All of those poor parasites, profiteers, and narcissists.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 08:12 PMAll I did was point out that hobby will  die out if things are not desirable "expensive" anymore.

Turbo gaming kicked ass long before the collecting community came along.

Quote from: guest on 07/07/2014, 11:53 AM

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 11:23 AMSo while I really want the price crash to happen so I can go and buy anything I want, at the same time maybe a price crash can be very bad for the collecting community. It can make things so cheap and easy, it will dissolve the collectors base and no one will care or give a fuck.

Oh no! All of those poor parasites, profiteers, and narcissists.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 08:12 PMAll I did was point out that hobby will  die out if things are not desirable "expensive" anymore.

Turbo gaming kicked ass long before the collecting community came along.

Damn right it did.

On the price front, I've seen several auctions for TG-16 games end for reasonable prices compared to the insane BINs commonly seen, not to mention the fair deals being offered in the sales forum. That confirms what I have suspected about TG-16 and other game markets: the resellers exploiting ebay for inflated BIN don't represent the actual market, even if some impatient "instant collectors" occasionally pay the price.

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 07/07/2014, 04:11 PMThat confirms what I have suspected about TG-16 and other game markets: the resellers exploiting ebay for inflated BIN don't represent the actual market, even if some impatient "instant collectors" occasionally pay the price.

I assumed this was common knowledge.  BIN's have always been 30% to 1000% higher than closing auctions. Meanwhile, a game's real value is even lower than the auction average. Usually equal to the lowest ending ebay auctions in the last twelve months.

Yet people / mom&pop game stores still use ebay bins not auctions as a price guide.

Quote from: geise on 07/07/2014, 06:24 PMYet people / mom&pop game stores still use ebay bins not auctions as a price guide.

That does any me...

There is two retro game shops I use and only one local ish reseller as they actually price competitively to what ever the trending prices are on the Internet.  They also do bundle deals at times...  Nothing to crazy as I always find systems cheaper on the inter net then reseller prices oddly but enough to make me more willing to support them over the internet.

Quote from: NecroPhile on 07/07/2014, 11:13 AM

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 11:23 AMSo while I really want the price crash to happen so I can go and buy anything I want, at the same time maybe a price crash can be very bad for the collecting community. It can make things so cheap and easy, it will dissolve the collectors base and no one will care or give a fuck.

Good.  Fuck the "collecting community".

+1

Quote from: geise on 07/07/2014, 06:24 PMYet people / mom&pop game stores still use ebay bins not auctions as a price guide.

This annoys me to no end. Two years ago I was in a game store with a boxed US Soldier Blade for $400. I can only imagine what price it's currently marked at if no one was dumb enough to pay it since.

Quote from: Mathius on 07/07/2014, 02:39 PM

Quote from: guest on 07/07/2014, 11:53 AMTurbo gaming kicked ass long before the collecting community came along.

Damn right it did. Tell 'em Steve Dave!

Fixed.

(https://i.imgur.com/c0iQGEY.jpg)

Quote from: geise on 07/07/2014, 06:24 PMYet people / mom&pop game stores still use ebay bins not auctions as a price guide.

I've gotten into arguments with store owners and employees before, also my favorite thing to do is storming out like a rhino. :)

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 11:23 AMI was thinking the other day. If a price crash happens and all the systems and games start to cost cheaper than socks it will not be challenging and fun to collect anything.

...a price crash can be very bad for the collecting community. It can make things so cheap and easy, it will dissolve the collectors base and no one will care or give a fuck.

great! where do I sign?

Quote from: esadajr on 07/08/2014, 01:23 PM

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/04/2014, 11:23 AMI was thinking the other day. If a price crash happens and all the systems and games start to cost cheaper than socks it will not be challenging and fun to collect anything.

...a price crash can be very bad for the collecting community. It can make things so cheap and easy, it will dissolve the collectors base and no one will care or give a fuck.

great! where do I sign?

I disagree.  Most Atari 2600 games are cheaper than chips & I still enjoy collecting them. The NES used to be the same way...used to...

And then VGA

Quote from: guest on 07/08/2014, 05:38 PMAnd then VGA

What I have noticed is people say mostly negative things about VGA across the board. They know it's a crock. I don't see it hanging around for much longer.

There will always be idiots so sadly there will always be VGA.

Quote from: geise on 07/08/2014, 07:51 PMThere will always be idiots so sadly there will always be VGA.

There is no hope, but I hope not.

I once shopped at that local store in Canada. most of their stock doesnt have a price tag on it. I bring the games and ask for the prices. He said : what do you offer. I had no clue what stanley cup for snes or r type 3d cost, so i said that i had no clue.

He then proceed to tell me that its 15$ for stanley cup and 40$ for r type. I didnt think it was a good deal. He turns around and shows me an ebay page. He scrolls, i can see cib BIN copies for 20$ for r type, and 5$ for stanley cup(including shipping). he turns back to me and says 12$ for stanley cup and 30$ for r type.

I was in awe. i told him that i just saw that i could buy those games for cheaper online, why would i pay 10$ extra? We started to argue and then at the end I decided to only buy one game that had a tag, raiden iv, and he proceeds to say that he doesnt want to sell it to me if I only take this game, that he needs to make profit to keep the store open (its the only retro store in town, its been open for more than 20years... bullshit)

Anyway, i turned the deal away, bought my copies back in Japan for 5$ (rtype) and 20$ for raiden iv:


seriously, wtf is wrong with retro stores, they are worse than ebay. no wonder they get less business than us. If they sold same price than ebay, i wouldnt mind since they are local, but asking for over ebay price, you lost me.

retro stores will all soon die out because they can't make rent. Selling retro games does not pay rent. At least in NYC it don't.

Retro stores, please just close down, u know u will always be poor. Thanks that u tried and all that other jazz. You failed. :)

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/09/2014, 11:04 PMretro stores will all soon die out because they can't make rent. Selling retro games does not pay rent. At least in NYC it don't.

Retro stores, please just close down, u know u will always be poor. Thanks that u tried and all that other jazz. You failed. :)

Seriously? You want retro stores to fail? They're not all bad.

Quote from: HailingTheThings on 07/10/2014, 12:02 AM

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/09/2014, 11:04 PMretro stores will all soon die out because they can't make rent. Selling retro games does not pay rent. At least in NYC it don't.

Retro stores, please just close down, u know u will always be poor. Thanks that u tried and all that other jazz. You failed. :)

Seriously? You want retro stores to fail? They're not all bad.

Just like good and bad ebay sellers there are good and bad retro stores. And just like ebay (or anywhere else for that matter) you can get some good deals there.

seemed like this thread was bashing retro games stores so my post was intended to go with the flow of the thread.  :)

I like retro stores, but if they use ebay prices and add a few dollars to make profits, they are doing things wrong. Back in the days, when ebay or the internet wasn't that predominant, they could get away with this kind of practice. But nowadays, collectors have soo many options to buy games that if the retro sellers do not adapt, they will fall quickly.

I prefer going physically in store to check games around and buy it right away. the feeling that you might find a gem for cheap is great, but usually in Canada, in retro stores, i dont even feel like going to the stores, i might as well just sit down for a few minutes and check the options online, its cheaper and I dont have to drive to those remote place.


Also i dislike the attitude that most owner of those shops give me. They give me that "i'm superior to you" attitude all the time when I ask questions about games and pricing... I don't know if i'm being unlucky, or its maybe a french canadian thing, but this also doesnt make me want to encourage them to stay in business.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 07/10/2014, 08:17 PMseemed like this thread was bashing retro games stores so my post was intended to go with the flow of the thread.  :)

Speak for yourself, question authority.

I have no issue paying eBay fair price at a retro store - supporting small biz, added bonus of being able to see/touch what I'm buying, etc. The trick is - you shouldn't buy anything rare (or even uncommon) at those stores. They're great places to stock up on good cheap stuff.

People Play Games in Chicago and Video Games New York both have tons of good cheap stuff if you look. I just stay away from what's under the glass at the counter (Monster World IV for $180? Nah)

It's as if they don't realize everyone has a smart phone in their pocket. So if they claim they use eBay to set their prices .. then if I pull out my phone and show you the last 10 eBay sales of that item, in similar condition sold for half of what you are asking .. I'd hope you will negotiate with me. Seems alot of stores I've been in lately aren't willing to take a realistic look at what something is actually selling for, trading for.  Today I walked into a very nice shop .. but they had Dragon Spirit cic for $85 and the guy was trying to convince me it's the going rate. I didn't try to negotiate as we were already too far apart. I live in Toronto, and prices here are way too high. I am taking a couple day trip to NY state and have acouple shops mapped out in my trip.  When I visited them last year, I came back with a huge haul, and for a fair price. That is all I am in search for .. fair pricing. I want the retro store to make money, and be able to stay open .. but not to be gouging, and looking for uneducated customers.  A good store values educated customers, and educated those that are new to the hobby. At least that is how I feel it should happen.  Just my 2 cents.

Quote from: Mathius on 07/08/2014, 07:18 PM

Quote from: guest on 07/08/2014, 05:38 PMAnd then VGA

What I have noticed is people say mostly negative things about VGA across the board. They know it's a crock. I don't see it hanging around for much longer.

I thought the same of CGC and comics.......but maybe I am comparing apples and oranges

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 07/11/2014, 10:57 AMI have no issue paying eBay fair price at a retro store - supporting small biz, added bonus of being able to see/touch what I'm buying, etc. The trick is - you shouldn't buy anything rare (or even uncommon) at those stores. They're great places to stock up on good cheap stuff.

People Play Games in Chicago and Video Games New York both have tons of good cheap stuff if you look. I just stay away from what's under the glass at the counter (Monster World IV for $180? Nah)

Same rule I try and have...they want inflated u realistic prices for anything rare or uncommon...which makes buying at a retro store pointless.

Was just watching this Pat the NES Punk video discussing "Is the Retro Game Bubble Bursting?".
Is the Retro Game Bubble Bursting? - #CUPodcast (https://youtu.be/wOXUP-2BPSM) http://youtu.be/wOXUP-2BPSM

 :D

To find an answer to this question I definitely go to youtube to seek this answer out.   :^o

its just one of those things we wish would happen but wont due to the popularity and attention that retro gaming has gotten. even thrift stores are taking notice and pricing their gamws much higher or just putting them up online.  so sad :(

At Retropalooza yesterday I overheard several vendors talking about how right after the doors opened, people were coming up paying big money for Flintstones, Little Samson, and others right off the bat. Not really sure what that says about the market overall, but there is still demand.

Yeah the market is dropping alright look at what somebody just paid for a Hero tonma box in horrible condition on e-bay today....     http://www.ebay.com/itm/271606680611?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&autorefresh=true (http://www.ebay.com/itm/271606680611?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&autorefresh=true)

Out of their mind......

Quote from: technozombie on 09/21/2014, 03:13 PMAt Retropalooza yesterday I overheard several vendors talking about how right after the doors opened, people were coming up paying big money for Flintstones, Little Samson, and others right off the bat. Not really sure what that says about the market overall, but there is still demand.

maybe because people know its rare and worth big bucks? or those may be the last few games they need to conplete their officiallly released nes collection

So a year and half later are we any closer to a big crash? or are prices going to continue to rise?

Quote from: Otaking on 08/12/2015, 10:12 AMSo a year and half later are we any closer to a big crash? or are prices going to continue to rise?

Only when the flood gates of repros come out and are so hard to distinguish them and the real thing.

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 08/12/2015, 10:18 AM

Quote from: Otaking on 08/12/2015, 10:12 AMSo a year and half later are we any closer to a big crash? or are prices going to continue to rise?

Only when the flood gates of repros come out and are so hard to distinguish them and the real thing.

didn't that already happen with neo geo? i don't see those games getting any cheaper

I wish the whole retro buying market would crash. maybe then I could snag me some more games and actually be able to play them and have a good time. Every time I see ebay prices anymore it makes me ill. I want to throw up... ](*,) So, do i think there will be a crash? one day, yes. Can it happen soon enough at this point? Nope. Tomorrow would be nice.

Quote from: T2KFreeker on 08/13/2015, 10:22 PMI wish the whole retro buying market would crash. maybe then I could snag me some more games and actually be able to play them and have a good time. Every time I see ebay prices anymore it makes me ill. I want to throw up... ](*,) So, do i think there will be a crash? one day, yes. Can it happen soon enough at this point? Nope. Tomorrow would be nice.

Retro gaming in general needs to level out with the prices.Still i don't see that happening any time soon,there's to much demand these days.I hate it as well that it has become a trendy thing to collect old video games.

Honestly I think it will be decades before there is a "leveling out"

Price crash for retro games and systems will happen when they start to actually make good new games and new systems. Retro gaming is popular because everything new pretty much sucks.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 08/16/2015, 07:23 PMPrice crash for retro games and systems will happen when they start to actually make good new games and new systems. Retro gaming is popular because everything new pretty much sucks.

Since most people never play the games they buy and flip, the quality of games from any time period has nothing to do with it. Just like other stupid fads like Beanie Babies, people are doing it for the thrill of flipping investments and making money off of each other. The adults who made up the high rolling Beanie Baby market weren't playing with their toys/investments and the market didn't crash because someone 'happened to start to actually make good new' Beanie Babies and Beanie Babie shelves.

Quote from: guest on 08/16/2015, 08:31 PM

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 08/16/2015, 07:23 PMPrice crash for retro games and systems will happen when they start to actually make good new games and new systems. Retro gaming is popular because everything new pretty much sucks.

Since most people never play the games they buy and flip, the quality of games from any time period has nothing to do with it. Just like other stupid fads like Beanie Babies, people are doing it for the thrill of flipping investments and making money off of each other. The adults who made up the high rolling Beanie Baby market weren't playing with their toys/investments and the market didn't crash because someone 'happened to start to actually make good new' Beanie Babies and Beanie Babie shelves.

Good point.  but it makes me winder if people have bought those shelves for thier video game collections now.   or converted.  :(

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 08/16/2015, 07:23 PMPrice crash for retro games and systems will happen when they start to actually make good new games and new systems. Retro gaming is popular because everything new pretty much sucks.

couldnt agree more. "New" games suck.

removed

An additional dust particle here, a extra shadow there. I pass.

To its credit... Wii U has some fun stuff

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 08/16/2015, 07:23 PMPrice crash for retro games and systems will happen when they start to actually make good new games and new systems. Retro gaming is popular because everything new pretty much sucks.

New games suck so hard it's only an $80 billion market.  :roll:

Quote from: NecroPhile on 08/17/2015, 12:40 PM

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 08/16/2015, 07:23 PMPrice crash for retro games and systems will happen when they start to actually make good new games and new systems. Retro gaming is popular because everything new pretty much sucks.

New games suck so hard it's only an $80 billion market.  :roll:

And Justin Bieber sold tens of millions of records. Just because it's popular doesn't make it good.

Quote from: BlueBMW on 08/16/2015, 10:58 PMTo its credit... Wii U has some fun stuff

Very true, DK Tropical Freeze is really the only current gen thing I am playing and it is a blast. 

I don't really like modern games, but I have liked some stuff on iPad and DS/3DS.

Quote from: guest on 08/17/2015, 12:45 PMAnd Justin Bieber sold tens of millions of records. Just because it's popular doesn't make it good.

To those millions of fans, it most certainly is good.  Whether or not you personally agree isn't relevant.

His argument was that people are buying old games solely because they have no other option (everything new sucks), which is obviously untrue for the vast majority of retro gamers that are buying and playing new stuff as well as old; the reality is that retro games are popular for a variety of reasons (nostalgia, hipsters, etc.) that have nothing to do with the quality of new games.  For the sake of argument, let's say the Retro VGS takes off and there's dozens and dozens of top notch retro style games made for it every year.  Do you honestly think the price of old games will tank because there's finally something worth playing?

Quote from: guest on 08/17/2015, 01:47 PMDo you honestly think the price of old games will tank because there's finally something worth playing?

yes

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 08/23/2015, 08:46 PM

Quote from: guest on 08/17/2015, 01:47 PMDo you honestly think the price of old games will tank because there's finally something worth playing?

yes

Yes, one of my friends bought a Genesis only because and I quote "all the new games are just sad, I mean look at SNES and Genesis they had true talented developers making games now we EA making loads of shitty games and a FPS craze which I don't like !Only if I lived in the 70/80/90's!"

Quote from: GreatBlueSwirlof99 on 08/24/2015, 01:11 PM

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 08/23/2015, 08:46 PM

Quote from: guest on 08/17/2015, 01:47 PMDo you honestly think the price of old games will tank because there's finally something worth playing?

yes

Yes, one of my friends bought a Genesis only because and I quote "all the new games are just sad, I mean look at SNES and Genesis they had true talented developers making games now we EA making loads of shitty games and a FPS craze which I don't like !Only if I lived in the 70/80/90's!"

Hearing this makes me worried about who's buying all these games, and what will happen when they bore of them. Hopefully their "collections" re-integrated into the market, but I worry that  a lot of the people buying these games are so young that their games will be another toy to be tossed in the trash when they are tired of the games. I imagine a lot of the people inflating the prices are rich parents trying to appease their crying child who wants all of these games. Maybe there will be another glut of games available in yard sales 5 years from now when these kids move out and get a family of their own.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 08/23/2015, 08:46 PMyes

Then you're an idiot, but we already knew that.

I've been kicking myself lately.

When the original playstation was released, I traded a Duo w/ 2 controllers, tap, Ys1/2, Bonk 1-3, Monsters Lair, Devil's Crush, and a whole lot more for an (almost) new PS1 w/ 2 controllers, mod chip and a few games...

FML. Seemed like a good deal at the time!

Quote from: chemdream on 08/25/2015, 08:42 AMI've been kicking myself lately.

When the original playstation was released, I traded a Duo w/ 2 controllers, tap, Ys1/2, Bonk 1-3, Monsters Lair, Devil's Crush, and a whole lot more for an (almost) new PS1 w/ 2 controllers, mod chip and a few games...

FML. Seemed like a good deal at the time!

That was a really good deal you got, I paid a fortune for my import PS1 when it was released, at that time the Duo was worth a lot less.
In the grand scheme of things all this TG-16/Duo being worth big bucks is a relatively new thing.

Quote from: Otaking on 08/25/2015, 09:14 AM

Quote from: chemdream on 08/25/2015, 08:42 AMI've been kicking myself lately.

When the original playstation was released, I traded a Duo w/ 2 controllers, tap, Ys1/2, Bonk 1-3, Monsters Lair, Devil's Crush, and a whole lot more for an (almost) new PS1 w/ 2 controllers, mod chip and a few games...

FML. Seemed like a good deal at the time!

That was a really good deal you got, I paid a fortune for my import PS1 when it was released, at that time the Duo was worth a lot less.
In the grand scheme of things all this TG-16/Duo being worth big bucks is a relatively new thing.

I traded 2 new sealed Duos for an import Dreamcast and a couple games in November 1998.  It was worth it.

I've done so many, many trades in the 90s it's hard to remember.
But I used to get each new console when it was released in Japan, through trading or buying. This is when consoles were released months or years in Japan before other regions. I remember I picked up an import Saturn on it's Japanese release with Virtua Fighter, then over the next couple months no new good games came out. I was generally disapointed with the Saturn so swapped it with someone for a Core Grafx II and Super CD Rom unit with Cho Aniki, Image Fight II, Super Darius II and a stack of Japanese PC Engine mags. The guy gladly did the swap and thought I was completely nuts as the Saturn was still newly released.
Saying that in the end by the end of it's lifecycle the Saturn turned out to be a great console, with loads of great 2D shooters and fighting games.

Very similar I swapped a Neo Geo AES for a PC Engine Duo, when the Duo was first released. The guy I swapped with said he thought the Duo was rubbish and thought I was crazy for swapping it for an AES.

Quote from: Otaking on 08/25/2015, 09:45 AMThe guy I swapped with said he thought the Duo was rubbish and thought I was crazy for swapping it for an AES.

Well at least he was honest with you! :)

Quote from: Nulltard on 08/25/2015, 09:23 AMI traded 3 sealed duos for a reacharound from richard simmons. Best trade ever!

I bet that really charged your crystal.

Quote from: guest on 08/25/2015, 09:23 AMI traded 3 sealed duos for a reacharound from richard simmons. Best trade ever!

You must have just beat me to him, because when I got there, he said, "The price just went up, sweety! I just got 3 Duos for 3 seconds of work!"

I traded a mint-in-box PCE LT for XaviX.

Hindsight is 20/20

I have oh about 30 PSX consoles and about a dozen PSOne consoles.  Most of them were from local yard sales and Goodwill for as low as $10, and nearly all are working. Just a PSOne that can't read at all even with a new drive, probably a fried chip.  I figure I might as well stock up on these because in 20 years from now, people would be paying a lot for a working console.  Like how Atari 2600 is usually going for $50 working nowday when I used to be able to get crapload of them about 20 years ago for next to nothing.

If you factor in inflation, I won't be making much profit in 20 years but I won't need to worry about having working console when Chinese companies stops making cheap replacement drives and demand for working console goes crazy high, I can afford to blow a few up to bad modding. :D

Quote from: wilykat on 08/26/2015, 05:48 PMHindsight is 20/20

I have oh about 30 PSX consoles and about a dozen PSOne consoles.  Most of them were from local yard sales and Goodwill for as low as $10, and nearly all are working. Just a PSOne that can't read at all even with a new drive, probably a fried chip.  I figure I might as well stock up on these because in 20 years from now, people would be paying a lot for a working console.  Like how Atari 2600 is usually going for $50 working nowday when I used to be able to get crapload of them about 20 years ago for next to nothing.

If you factor in inflation, I won't be making much profit in 20 years but I won't need to worry about having working console when Chinese companies stops making cheap replacement drives and demand for working console goes crazy high, I can afford to blow a few up to bad modding. :D

The problem with the PSX was that PS2 and PS3 could play the discs back and offer superior video quality of said games.  Most other systems have one life and then they're done, so they'll always hold some value.  My Goodwill to this day is still littered with PS1 consoles.

Yeah, that's a good point. I stopped using my PSX because I bought YPbPr/Component cables for my PS2 and playing my PS1 games on it was a lot prettier. :) You're investing in the wrong console, me thinks... ;)

There will always be a slight demand for the PS1 to play games that the PS2 can't. Plus, some folks like original systems. Otherwise, everyone would just play on a Retron.

That said, it's unlikely that there will ever be a demand great enough to have that "investment" pay off.

Quote from: guest on 08/26/2015, 07:19 PMThere will always be a slight demand for the PS1 to play games that the PS2 can't. Plus, some folks like original systems. Otherwise, everyone would just play on a Retron.

That said, it's unlikely that there will ever be a demand great enough to have that "investment" pay off.

Is That a thing?

Quote from: HailingTheThings on 08/26/2015, 07:26 PM

Quote from: guest on 08/26/2015, 07:19 PMThere will always be a slight demand for the PS1 to play games that the PS2 can't. Plus, some folks like original systems. Otherwise, everyone would just play on a Retron.

That said, it's unlikely that there will ever be a demand great enough to have that "investment" pay off.

Is That a thing?

You could, you know, just Google it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_games_incompatible_with_PlayStation_2

X-Files has bugs on the PS2, and my copy of Return Fire doesn't work past the menus on my PS3 so yeah.

Quote from: guest on 08/26/2015, 07:19 PMThere will always be a slight demand for the PS1 to play games that the PS2 can't. Plus, some folks like original systems. Otherwise, everyone would just play on a Retron.

Except the PS2 and PS3 aren't really emulating since they actually have the PSX processor and hardware built in.

Quote from: grolt on 08/27/2015, 10:26 AM

Quote from: guest on 08/26/2015, 07:19 PMThere will always be a slight demand for the PS1 to play games that the PS2 can't. Plus, some folks like original systems. Otherwise, everyone would just play on a Retron.

Except the PS2 and PS3 aren't really emulating since they actually have the PSX processor and hardware built in.

Only the earliest PS3 used a chip.

The PS3's PS1 compatibility is completely software based. Only PS2 games were hardware emulated. (Sony just hide the software emulator for the PS2 after the launch of the slim consoles but it is still there, you can use it on a custom firmware and it is also used when you play PS2 Classics from the PSN store)

Quote from: guest on 08/27/2015, 12:53 PM(Sony just hide the software emulator for the PS2 after the launch of the slim consoles but it is still there, you can use it on a custom firmware and it is also used when you play PS2 Classics from the PSN store)

Oh wait, is that really true, Punch ? OK, because I was needing to get a PS3, but I thought I had to track down the very 1st model since they got rid of PS2 backwards compatibility. You're saying you can buy the newest PS3 model, patch the firmware, and fully restore PS2 support ?? Is that right ?

Quote from: Psycho Punch on 08/27/2015, 12:53 PMThe PS3's PS1 compatibility is completely software based. Only PS2 games were hardware emulated. (Sony just hide the software emulator for the PS2 after the launch of the slim consoles but it is still there, you can use it on a custom firmware and it is also used when you play PS2 Classics from the PSN store)

What reasoning would they have for that?

Quote from: guest on 08/27/2015, 04:50 PMWhat reasoning would they have for that?

My guess would be poor compatibility that Sony won't be fixing.

Quote from: NecroPhile on 08/27/2015, 05:07 PM

Quote from: guest on 08/27/2015, 04:50 PMWhat reasoning would they have for that?

My guess would be poor compatibility that Sony won't be fixing.

The same reason we have that shitty Vita TV whitelist.

Quote from: NightWolve on 08/27/2015, 04:47 PM

Quote from: Psycho Punch on 08/27/2015, 12:53 PM(Sony just hide the software emulator for the PS2 after the launch of the slim consoles but it is still there, you can use it on a custom firmware and it is also used when you play PS2 Classics from the PSN store)

Oh wait, is that really true, Punch ? OK, because I was needing to get a PS3, but I thought I had to track down the very 1st model since they got rid of PS2 backwards compatibility. You're saying you can buy the newest PS3 model, patch the firmware, and fully restore PS2 support ?? Is that right ?

Yeah I don't keep up with PS3 'scene' but that's pretty much it if your console can be downgraded to the jailbreak requirements. There's even a PSP emulator! (http://www.pshomebrew.net/wiki/PSP_On_PS3_Compatibility_List (http://www.pshomebrew.net/wiki/PSP_On_PS3_Compatibility_List)) Compatibility wise the PS2 soft emu isn't that great though. I have Winback and Grand Theft Auto:SA from the PSN store and it's not that bad but not that great either.

Quote from: guest on 08/27/2015, 04:50 PMWhat reasoning would they have for that?

I  always assumed it was so that you'd pay for PS2 classics rather than just put the disk you already own in your PS3 and play it.

Quote from: seieienbu on 08/27/2015, 07:20 PM

Quote from: guest on 08/27/2015, 04:50 PMWhat reasoning would they have for that?

I  always assumed it was so that you'd pay for PS2 classics rather than just put the disk you already own in your PS3 and play it.

Yup.

Here's a frustration I have with the PS3...  I picked up one of those 1st gen launch models so it has the hardware backwards compatibility support.  Trouble is I never use it for that.  I always pull out the PS2 to play PS1/PS2 games.  Why?  I'm afraid that overuse will eventually kill the PS3.  Its still working fine despite being nearly 10 years old now.  I have a download of Nights HD on it, so I keep it around pretty much just for that.

Quote from: NightWolve on 08/27/2015, 04:47 PM

Quote from: guest on 08/27/2015, 12:53 PM(Sony just hide the software emulator for the PS2 after the launch of the slim consoles but it is still there, you can use it on a custom firmware and it is also used when you play PS2 Classics from the PSN store)

Oh wait, is that really true, Punch ? OK, because I was needing to get a PS3, but I thought I had to track down the very 1st model since they got rid of PS2 backwards compatibility. You're saying you can buy the newest PS3 model, patch the firmware, and fully restore PS2 support ?? Is that right ?

Pretty much.  Out of the fat models, only the cech-a series uses a chip, the cech-e models use emulation, and then later models disabled it.  Its not really worth the hassle to enable it, as it did not work well.  I wouldnt recommend hunting down the cecha models either though.  In our shop, i have yet to see one not die from the ylod.  Even once they are reballed the failure rate is high, often withon a year.

Quote from: neopolss on 08/29/2015, 11:23 PM

Quote from: NightWolve on 08/27/2015, 04:47 PM

Quote from: Psycho Punch on 08/27/2015, 12:53 PM(Sony just hide the software emulator for the PS2 after the launch of the slim consoles but it is still there, you can use it on a custom firmware and it is also used when you play PS2 Classics from the PSN store)

Oh wait, is that really true, Punch ? OK, because I was needing to get a PS3, but I thought I had to track down the very 1st model since they got rid of PS2 backwards compatibility. You're saying you can buy the newest PS3 model, patch the firmware, and fully restore PS2 support ?? Is that right ?

Pretty much.  Out of the fat models, only the cech-a series uses a chip, the cech-e models use emulation, and then later models disabled it.  Its not really worth the hassle to enable it, as it did not work well.  I wouldnt recommend hunting down the cecha models either though.  In our shop, i have yet to see one not die from the ylod.  Even once they are reballed the failure rate is high, often withon a year.

Wow, I could see failure that fast with a reflow, but I would expect a reball to last much longer than that, especially if you're using leaded solder.

Quote from: BlueBMW on 08/29/2015, 11:13 AMHere's a frustration I have with the PS3...  I picked up one of those 1st gen launch models so it has the hardware backwards compatibility support.  Trouble is I never use it for that.  I always pull out the PS2 to play PS1/PS2 games.  Why?  I'm afraid that overuse will eventually kill the PS3.  Its still working fine despite being nearly 10 years old now.  I have a download of Nights HD on it, so I keep it around pretty much just for that.

I have a ps3 "slim" model since the week it launched. It gets used for hours almost every day as a dvd player and netflix. Today, my wife accidentally left it on and shut the tv cabinet that its in (with no ventillation) for 6 hours. This is not the first, second, third, etc. time this has happened. It has never even had a slight hiccup.
The thing seems to be a rock. Or i just got lucky.

I suppose I should pick up a slim and dump the OG model to some collectard.  I bought it new a few weeks after launch and I kind of hate to get rid of it but I just know its going to die sometime.

Quote from: BlueBMW on 08/30/2015, 03:20 AMI suppose I should pick up a slim and dump the OG model to some collectard.  I bought it new a few weeks after launch and I kind of hate to get rid of it but I just know its going to die sometime.

I eventually had to. I had so much cool stuff on my PS3 that I was just completely unable to use. Plus, my OG model couldn't even run Last of Us. Seriously, you'd load up a level and the models would pop into space and then nothing would happen. So weird. Despite its weird disc loading mechanism, the newer PS3 really is pretty good...

Quote from: agent_orange on 08/30/2015, 12:35 AMI have a ps3 "slim" model since the week it launched. It gets used for hours almost every day as a dvd player and netflix. Today, my wife accidentally left it on and shut the tv cabinet that its in (with no ventillation) for 6 hours. This is not the first, second, third, etc. time this has happened. It has never even had a slight hiccup.
The thing seems to be a rock. Or i just got lucky.

I literally have to pull out a portable fan to use my PS3 "fat" for Netflix in my entertainment center. It's that bad. Thing could heat a small home by itself.

So it looks like the technology is now nearly there for someone to do a full Magical Chase repro recreation of the original game, or repro of any other sought after HuCard such as Tonma.
So if this does happen unlike cartridge games you wont be able to open up the cart and check the circuit board to see if it's an original. So basically in the end the only way you'll be able to tell if yours is a fake is to own another original copy of the game to A to B reference the suspected fake with the genuine copy to see if there is any tiny differences, such as colours in the printing.

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=19848

Edit: I'm not suggesting ichigobankai is related to developing fake copies to pass off as originals, just what he's done shows someone else with less good intentions could potentially do it.

(https://i.imgur.com/NAVjDHo.jpg)

As nice as ichigobankai's hueys are, they're not even close to originals and are instantly recognizable as unoriginal.

Quote from: NecroPhile on 10/11/2015, 01:15 PMAs nice as ichigobankai's hueys are, they're not even close to originals and are instantly recognizable as unoriginal.

But what if a black and gold Magical Chase was sold in custom premium packaging by PCEWorks, with limited edition Magical Chase candy?

Collectards are already paying more for several PCEWorks releases than the originals.

Quote from: guest on 10/11/2015, 02:30 PMCollectards are already paying more for several PCEWorks releases than the originals.

For the life of me, I can't understand paying extra for a known forgery.

Quote from: seieienbu on 10/11/2015, 05:54 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 10/11/2015, 02:30 PMCollectards are already paying more for several PCEWorks releases than the originals.

For the life of me, I can't understand paying extra for a known forgery.

Because it is literally more rare.

I'll burn a copy of Last Alert and do a poor drawing of Guy Kazama on the label side of the disc. RARE!!! Only 1 copy in existence!

:P

Screw it, let's clean out the pockets of collectards with Magical Chase booties.

Quote from: guest on 10/11/2015, 08:17 PMI'll burn a copy of Last Alert and do a poor drawing of Guy Kazama on the label side of the disc. RARE!!! Only 1 copy in existence!

:P

PM sent.

Quote from: guest on 10/11/2015, 07:37 PM

Quote from: seieienbu on 10/11/2015, 05:54 PM

Quote from: guest on 10/11/2015, 02:30 PMCollectards are already paying more for several PCEWorks releases than the originals.

For the life of me, I can't understand paying extra for a known forgery.

Because it is literally more rare.

I think cause in part cause of the great package they put together with stolen artwork around their stolen games.  (At least I'm assuming they stole most of the artwork used).  I'm also pretty sure the ton of youtube reviewers who talk about how great this is, many of them got free copies.

Quote from: Ozzy_98 on 10/13/2015, 09:00 AM

Quote from: guest on 10/11/2015, 07:37 PM

Quote from: seieienbu on 10/11/2015, 05:54 PM

Quote from: guest on 10/11/2015, 02:30 PMCollectards are already paying more for several PCEWorks releases than the originals.

For the life of me, I can't understand paying extra for a known forgery.

Because it is literally more rare.

I think cause in part cause of the great package they put together with stolen artwork around their stolen games.  (At least I'm assuming they stole most of the artwork used).  I'm also pretty sure the ton of youtube reviewers who talk about how great this is, many of them got free copies.

Ya think?

:3

At what point does everyone think they will be priced out if they haven't already been? I've been thinking about this quite a bit for myself, especially for other systems that have much larger libraries with quite a few games in the 100 plus range. I love physical and owning a game as much as the next guy but I just feel like the hobby is fast approaching a point where it just doesn't make sense to go after most games.

I would think a situation like what is happening to me would eventually cause a bit of price decrease, but as far as I can tell there seems to be no shortage of people willing to pay the ever increasing prices.

If you're afraid of being priced out and just want to play the games without issues, just play HuCards on a TED and spend the money you saved on CD games. For CD games that the Turbo version isn't necessary to play (Godzilla, Super Air Zonk, Terraforming, Dungeon Explorer II, Vasteel, etc) just buy the PCE version.

The difference between a fully functional set of Turbo games and a complete set of original Turbo collectible games is probably $20,000.

Quote from: guest on 10/14/2015, 01:00 PMIf you're afraid of being priced out and just want to play the games without issues, just play HuCards on a TED and spend the money you saved on CD games. For CD games that the Turbo version isn't necessary to play (Godzilla, Super Air Zonk, Terraforming, Dungeon Explorer II, Vasteel, etc) just buy the PCE version.

The difference between a fully functional set of Turbo games and a complete set of original Turbo collectible games is probably $20,000.

It's not that i'm afraid of being priced out, I'm more curious how many people are close to, or have already been priced out. Just curious what is the point at which people say... "Ok. Maybe instead of buying 5 retro games a month, i'll buy 3, or 2, or maybe 1."

For a lot of us collecting these games is a passion that I don't think will stop anytime soon, but speaking from personal experience, I can definitely say I've slowed down on buying things for "full price."

What is full price though?  That can mean anything to collectors.  Maybe you meant to say "Premium"?  I know what you mean though.  I barely buy anything anymore.  Luckily I was around as a Turbo fan when it was fully available everywhere when it was released.  It is the system where I never sold any of my games, so I haven't had to deal with this craziness.

Unless you've decided that only the $100+ games are worth owning, you can't get priced out of shit.  For every overpriced Dynastic Hero there's a dozen comparatively cheap games that are worth less than original MSRP.

Quote from: guest on 10/14/2015, 03:49 PMUnless you've decided that only the $100+ games are worth owning, you can't get priced out of shit.  For every overpriced Dynastic Hero there's a dozen comparatively cheap games that are worth less than original MSRP.

Of course there is a price spectrum, and some games are cheap, but more likely than not, a lot of people pick up the cheap, good games relatively fast.

I'm not really talking about collecting for those that want a full set of something I suppose. That has never really interested me, but more collecting and finding games I enjoy, popping a game into the system and getting some really enjoyment out of my hobby. (Although scoring a sweet deal sometimes is even better  :wink:)

I did things backwards: I bought cheap crap games 10-15 years ago. I should have purchased the more expensive titles, but I was too cheap.

Basically, I feel like a dumbass. :(

But, it's OK. :)

LOL!  We've all been there este!

I don't think they will ever crash.

Quote from: HotJuicyBurgers on 10/14/2015, 04:20 PM

Quote from: NecroPhile on 10/14/2015, 03:49 PMUnless you've decided that only the $100+ games are worth owning, you can't get priced out of shit.  For every overpriced Dynastic Hero there's a dozen comparatively cheap games that are worth less than original MSRP.

Of course there is a price spectrum, and some games are cheap, but more likely than not, a lot of people pick up the cheap, good games relatively fast.

I'm not really talking about collecting for those that want a full set of something I suppose. That has never really interested me, but more collecting and finding games I enjoy, popping a game into the system and getting some really enjoyment out of my hobby. (Although scoring a sweet deal sometimes is even better  :wink:)

Of you're blindly buying games just to find out what they're like, you're only creating price inflation.

Why not play through games on cdr/flashcart or emulation first and then decide which ones are worth owning at any price? Then you won't have stacks of games you don't care taking up space and all that saved money to spend on the "permium" priced games that you actually know are worth buying.

Otherwise what you are currently doing is literally gambling with money.

Quote from: guest on 10/15/2015, 12:42 PM

Quote from: HotJuicyBurgers on 10/14/2015, 04:20 PM

Quote from: guest on 10/14/2015, 03:49 PMUnless you've decided that only the $100+ games are worth owning, you can't get priced out of shit.  For every overpriced Dynastic Hero there's a dozen comparatively cheap games that are worth less than original MSRP.

Of course there is a price spectrum, and some games are cheap, but more likely than not, a lot of people pick up the cheap, good games relatively fast.

I'm not really talking about collecting for those that want a full set of something I suppose. That has never really interested me, but more collecting and finding games I enjoy, popping a game into the system and getting some really enjoyment out of my hobby. (Although scoring a sweet deal sometimes is even better  :wink:)

Of you're blindly buying games just to find out what they're like, you're only creating price inflation.

Why not play through games on cdr/flashcart or emulation first and then decide which ones are worth owning at any price? Then you won't have stacks of games you don't care taking up space and all that saved money to spend on the "permium" priced games that you actually know are worth buying.

Otherwise what you are currently doing is literally gambling with money.

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that I am blowing a ton of money on games willly nilly on the hopes of finding a good game, but I should probably make it clear that I literally can't remember a time when I bought a game over like... 10-15 bucks without having done research and knowing pretty much exactly what I was getting.

God I hope so

Quote from: HotJuicyBurgers on 10/14/2015, 03:21 PMIt's not that i'm afraid of being priced out, I'm more curious how many people are close to, or have already been priced out. Just curious what is the point at which people say... "Ok. Maybe instead of buying 5 retro games a month, i'll buy 3, or 2, or maybe 1."

I've pretty much been priced out of TG16/PCE for some time now. Part of it is that I only keep the absolute best games that I love, and the fact that I already have a lot of the essentials. I have maybe 20 hucards and 20 CDs after purging most of my hucard collection. There are a few games that I want, and I still pick up a random game from time to time, but at this point I don't see my collection growing much larger. And it doesn't really need to, I've already got some great stuff.

For far too long I wanted a TurboDuo. I did get one finally a couple of years ago and I picked up a couple of games. This year I have been going hard at picking up games. Also this year is the year I got my Framemiester and RGB became my new favorite analog connection. Im glad for what I have and I will continue to pick up a game here and there. I only wish the price could crash but these things are harder to find and people are less willing to sell. I can't blame them I have all the games I had since I was a kid. I know I'm late to the party I'm just glad I'm here. Growing up my best friend had a Turbo Grafx 16 and we played the hell out of it.

Nope, no way, never.  TurboGrafx is better than gold.

Ive been priced out for a while now.  Granted taking a lower paying job and going back to school full time has put an immense damper on my funds so...  But even still, I got tired of the chase, tired of having stuff that got little use.  Now I have a hand picked library of just the stuff I want to have and I am much happier for it.

Quote from: tbone3969 on 10/21/2015, 03:51 PMNope, no way, never.  TurboGrafx is better than gold.

Then why can't you sell a sealed copy of Dragon Slayer?

Quote from: BlueBMW on 10/22/2015, 01:42 PMIve been priced out for a while now.  Granted taking a lower paying job and going back to school full time has put an immense damper on my funds so...  But even still, I got tired of the chase, tired of having stuff that got little use.  Now I have a hand picked library of just the stuff I want to have and I am much happier for it.

This is the way to go. I see full on collecting as more of a burden. Just buy the games that you want to play.

Quote from: guest on 10/22/2015, 03:22 PM

Quote from: tbone3969 on 10/21/2015, 03:51 PMNope, no way, never.  TurboGrafx is better than gold.

Then why can't you sell a sealed copy of Dragon Slayer?

shots fired

I was just reading through this old thread and I noticed o.pwuaioc edited and deleted one of his messages.
it's message number #198 https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=16341.198 (https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=16341.198)
(can someone tell me how to link to a particular post in a thread?)

It seems really random to go to some random post in some random old thread and remove it before nuking your own account.

But was it a random message? What did the message say???

(https://cdn8.openculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/sherlock_holmes_in_public-domain.jpg)

Disclaimer I have no problem with o.pwuaioc deleting his own post, that's totally up to him if he wants to do that, (I think I may have done it myself in the past), but my curiosity is piqued on this one

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=16341.msg419995#msg419995 (https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=16341.msg419995#msg419995)

Is March 30, 2016 also around the same time he nuked his account ? Whatever the case, I suppose if you run into him at the DoxPhile chatroom you could ask him there...

Yarr, 'tis strange to delete some random old post.

<<  edit  >>

Make it posts, plural.  He removed dozens of 'em (many of which were quoted anyway), and most all of 'em were presumably quite innocuous.  :-k

Quote from: Otaking on 05/24/2016, 03:22 PM(can someone tell me how to link to a particular post in a thread?)

The title of each specific post contains that posts direct address.  Right click it and 'copy link address' in Chrome or whatever the equivalent is in IE, Firefox, etc.

Quote from: esteban on 10/14/2015, 08:01 PMI did things backwards: I bought cheap crap games 10-15 years ago. I should have purchased the more expensive titles, but I was too cheap.

Basically, I feel like a dumbass. :(

But, it's OK. :)

The origin to esteban's timeball obsession was finally revealed. :P

Quote from: guest on 05/29/2016, 05:56 PM

Quote from: esteban on 10/14/2015, 08:01 PMI did things backwards: I bought cheap crap games 10-15 years ago. I should have purchased the more expensive titles, but I was too cheap.

Basically, I feel like a dumbass. :(

But, it's OK. :)

The origin to esteban's timeball obsession was finally revealed. :P

POSSIBLY!

Blodia was often thrown in as a free, loose HuCARD back in the day.

But I always thought Timeball was unappreciated.

GODDAMIT! Don't get me started...

:)

Quote from: Otaking on 02/21/2014, 01:16 PMThe general price of US TG16 games seems to have constantly been going up and up as the years go by.
Do you think the prices will keep going up indefinitely or the prices will stop increasing and plateau or even possibly dip and have a price crash?   
Say for example if the market gets flooded with high quality repros of the more expensive games this I think could cause a price crash.
 :D

3 years on from when I made this thread and still no sign of a crash, I'm starting to suspect there never will be one.

I'm finding myself flip-flopping with this idea. But with the YT scene bloated with nostalgic gamers, Facebook bloated, forums bloated, conventions bloated, ...you can't say the word Magical Chase anymore without getting slammed with 3,000 different emotions from 1,000 different directions........it seems logical that "retro" is self sustaining yet completely illogical at the same time. I truly and lovingly hope that we'll see a healthy implosion of the market.

I doubt there will be. These old post are great to awaken as going throw you can remember all the douches back in the day :P

Q: TG16 price crash?
A: lol no
Source: 19 pages of unfulfilled $10 magical chase fantasies

:P

http://gamevaluenow.com/turbografx-16

If you like manuals and this chart is to be believed, it already happened.

Quote from: TheClash603 on 03/19/2017, 03:10 PMhttp://gamevaluenow.com/turbografx-16

If you like manuals and this chart is to be believed, it already happened.

Given that there was no fluctuation in the loose price, I bet dollars to donuts that he implemented the CIC/CIB separation algorithm in Oct of '16. Also, no other console saw a substantial drop in prices (according to GVN charts) after Oct of '16. This just appears to be a 'correction factor' for cardboard.

People on eBay are stupid.
Not Turbografx or PC Engine, but I was just bidding on a seller who had 20 different retro games auctions I was interested in.
ALL 20 separate game auctions got bid up and ended considerably higher than you could buy the same games for a buy it now, right now. Any of those bidders could of searched eBay and found the same games right now for cheaper than the amount they bid. That is literally throwing money away, or actually just giving it away just because they were so fucking desperate to win the auction.

I don't remember it being this bad before where people would bid more than buy it nows. So is this the problem with prices and the current state of eBay? bidders having so desperately to win auctions at all costs??

I think I'll call them "Bidtards" from now on.

PS I know that what I just said is moving a bit off subject from a "TG16 price crash", it was just the way those auctions ended (and loads of others I've seen recently) made me think of this thread and the mind set of "I must have this game at any cost".

Bidtards.

I like it. 

:)

Quote from: esteban on 03/19/2017, 06:17 PMBidtards.

I like it. 

:)

Aye. I chuckled.

they pay over 30 dollars for games that cost 5 dollars a year ago

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JACK-NICKLAUS-TURBO-GOLF-CIB-TurboGrafx16-TurboDuo-TurboExpress-/132117689769?hash=item1ec2d3f5a9:g:uW8AAOSwCU1Yvb1X

no price crash ever

Quote from: Otaking on 03/19/2017, 05:08 PMPeople on eBay are stupid.
Not Turbografx or PC Engine, but I was just bidding on a seller who had 20 different retro games auctions I was interested in.
ALL 20 separate game auctions got bid up and ended considerably higher than you could buy the same games for a buy it now, right now. Any of those bidders could of searched eBay and found the same games right now for cheaper than the amount they bid. That is literally throwing money away, or actually just giving it away just because they were so fucking desperate to win the auction.

I don't remember it being this bad before where people would bid more than buy it nows. So is this the problem with prices and the current state of eBay? bidders having so desperately to win auctions at all costs??

I think I'll call them "Bidtards" from now on.

PS I know that what I just said is moving a bit off subject from a "TG16 price crash", it was just the way those auctions ended (and loads of others I've seen recently) made me think of this thread and the mind set of "I must have this game at any cost".

Yeah I've seen these assmonkeys in action before. A couple times I saw a nice CIC game sitting there with a BIN and I'd just jump on it the minute I got outbid, or it would disappear and I would watch helplessly as I got sniped and walked away with nothing. Then after the auction goes much higher than existing BINs prior to the auction's existance, subsequent BINs are listed based on the new auction benchmark. So one can review the "sold listings" on eBay and sort by date, see this pattern happening across many games, and once an auction price goes higher than the BIN, it sets a new bar and new BINs at the previous rate are a thing of the past, or very rarely when they do, they get snatched within minutes of the posting.

It's just seems these dumb bidders are contributing to the inflation problem even more than the sellers who post stupid money BINs. ](*,)

Quote from: guest on 03/19/2017, 04:39 PM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 03/19/2017, 03:10 PMhttp://gamevaluenow.com/turbografx-16

If you like manuals and this chart is to be believed, it already happened.

Given that there was no fluctuation in the loose price, I bet dollars to donuts that he implemented the CIC/CIB separation algorithm in Oct of '16. Also, no other console saw a substantial drop in prices (according to GVN charts) after Oct of '16. This just appears to be a 'correction factor' for cardboard.

I can confirm that is true, he changed the pricing algorithm then.  Prior to that, CIC and CIB wasn't really designated but it is treated separately going forward.  Owner is a good guy and always open to feedback if anyone wants to improve his algorithms or tracking.

As far as bubble popping on a whole, I'd expect gradual lulls or pullbacks (especially seasonally, like during summer), but a "crash" where $1000 games became $100 or less isn't happening.  There are simply so many resellers in the hobby that games would be scooped up as prices dropped and then relisted as BINs.  Even if they weren't selling, sellers would be stubborn and let them rot.

Quote from: Otaking on 03/19/2017, 05:08 PMPeople on eBay are stupid.
Not Turbografx or PC Engine, but I was just bidding on a seller who had 20 different retro games auctions I was interested in.
ALL 20 separate game auctions got bid up and ended considerably higher than you could buy the same games for a buy it now, right now. Any of those bidders could of searched eBay and found the same games right now for cheaper than the amount they bid. That is literally throwing money away, or actually just giving it away just because they were so fucking desperate to win the auction.

I don't remember it being this bad before where people would bid more than buy it nows. So is this the problem with prices and the current state of eBay? bidders having so desperately to win auctions at all costs??

I think I'll call them "Bidtards" from now on.

This has been happening for years, and will continue to happen all the time.  Like items, listed at auction, always do well together, many times selling for higher than they should.

The main reason is just simple marketing.  What yard sale would do better, one in the middle of no where or 10 all located together at an annual event?  Same concept, say a seller is selling 20 games.  They can be found with one click of "view seller's other items", instead of running 20 separate searches. 

Also a convenience thing, sometimes people will bid higher trying to get combined shipping if offered.  Some buyers are also only after specific titles, maybe a Bonk or Bomberman, so that's all they search.  Then when they look at seller's other items, maybe they'll throw some small bids at other titles of interests that they don't actively search for (and may not be familiar with the exact price of all BINs available).

TLDR - Like items listed together at 0.99 always do well.

not sure if it's already been mentioned but... bitdards (love that...) that are interested in their childhood games again grow older and whilst in that process get (statistically) richer ](*,)
that and the fact that people are stupid points me towards increasing prices for quite some time. scientifically proven!

I've seen that phenomenon as well. Ive mentioned this before and I can't remember the details but a while ago I sold a component GC cable on eBay. I think I chose a BIN of like $80 but it ended up going for like $120 which was not only more than my BIN but more than the BIN on several other GC component  video cables at that very moment, other auctions and other BINs.

Since there are no pirate versions and region was irrelevant (I had no box) there is no sane way to explain this other than to say these people are dumb.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 03/19/2017, 09:08 PMthey pay over 30 dollars for games that cost 5 dollars a year ago

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JACK-NICKLAUS-TURBO-GOLF-CIB-TurboGrafx16-TurboDuo-TurboExpress-/132117689769?hash=item1ec2d3f5a9:g:uW8AAOSwCU1Yvb1X

no price crash ever

Oh my god that's bad, $35CAN for Jack golf. ](*,)

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/19/2017, 11:20 AMI've seen that phenomenon as well. Ive mentioned this before and I can't remember the details but a while ago I sold a component GC cable on eBay. I think I chose a BIN of like $80 but it ended up going for like $120 which was not only more than my BIN but more than the BIN on several other GC component  video cables at that very moment, other auctions and other BINs.

Since there are no pirate versions and region was irrelevant (I had no box) there is no sane way to explain this other than to say these people are dumb.

You mean $80 reserve, or one of those BID XXX or BIN for YYY auctions, and some moron still bid more than the BIN price? If it was BID $120+ or BIN $80, and I was interested in the item, I would sure as heck chose the BIN option and end it immediately. It would be like the ultimate snipe, or let them pay more. eBay even warns users if they set a max bid above the BIN price. :p

Quote from: guest on 04/19/2017, 11:49 AM

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 03/19/2017, 09:08 PMthey pay over 30 dollars for games that cost 5 dollars a year ago

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JACK-NICKLAUS-TURBO-GOLF-CIB-TurboGrafx16-TurboDuo-TurboExpress-/132117689769?hash=item1ec2d3f5a9:g:uW8AAOSwCU1Yvb1X

no price crash ever

Oh my god that's bad, $35CAN for Jack golf. ](*,)

Probably because there are the magic words...

CIB
 #-o

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 04/20/2017, 01:23 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/19/2017, 11:20 AMI've seen that phenomenon as well. Ive mentioned this before and I can't remember the details but a while ago I sold a component GC cable on eBay. I think I chose a BIN of like $80 but it ended up going for like $120 which was not only more than my BIN but more than the BIN on several other GC component  video cables at that very moment, other auctions and other BINs.

Since there are no pirate versions and region was irrelevant (I had no box) there is no sane way to explain this other than to say these people are dumb.

You mean $80 reserve, or one of those BID XXX or BIN for YYY auctions, and some moron still bid more than the BIN price? If it was BID $120+ or BIN $80, and I was interested in the item, I would sure as heck chose the BIN option and end it immediately. It would be like the ultimate snipe, or let them pay more. eBay even warns users if they set a max bid above the BIN price. :p

The BIN option goes away once a bid is placed on those auctions.  It is called breaking the BIN.

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 04/20/2017, 01:23 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/19/2017, 11:20 AMI've seen that phenomenon as well. Ive mentioned this before and I can't remember the details but a while ago I sold a component GC cable on eBay. I think I chose a BIN of like $80 but it ended up going for like $120 which was not only more than my BIN but more than the BIN on several other GC component  video cables at that very moment, other auctions and other BINs.

Since there are no pirate versions and region was irrelevant (I had no box) there is no sane way to explain this other than to say these people are dumb.

You mean $80 reserve, or one of those BID XXX or BIN for YYY auctions, and some moron still bid more than the BIN price? If it was BID $120+ or BIN $80, and I was interested in the item, I would sure as heck chose the BIN option and end it immediately. It would be like the ultimate snipe, or let them pay more. eBay even warns users if they set a max bid above the BIN price. :p

Underpriced BINs are basically the only way left to get a "good deal" on ebay anymore, there are so many eyes on like every auction it's rare for something to go cheap anymore.

What would a TG16 price crash look like, anyway? It's not like there's millions of these things sitting around unwanted, waiting for someplace to go.

Quote from: guest on 04/20/2017, 03:12 PMWhat would a TG16 price crash look like, anyway? It's not like there's millions of these things sitting around unwanted, waiting for someplace to go.

It's an interesting point.  Since the prices are driven by demand it means that people will have to no longer want to buy/own/collect older video games, which is probably going to be driven by a number of factors.  I think that probably the biggest thing that has influenced the rise in price is the prevalence of "geek/nerd cred" within our current pop culture at the time, but speculation is probably the next largest variable I'd guess.

The comic book crash in the 90s is cited as the biggest example of what is coming/will happen, and that was mainly caused by speculators I think, but the publishers had a hand in it too.  The difference there though, is not all retro gamers necessarily enjoy modern games, so there is probably a disconnect going on for the people buying older games vs new limited editions filled with widgets of some sort.

Quote from: guest on 04/20/2017, 03:12 PMWhat would a TG16 price crash look like, anyway? It's not like there's millions of these things sitting around unwanted, waiting for someplace to go.

It would look like this:

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/Video-Games/139973/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=2&_nkw=atari+2600

and this:

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/Video-Games/139973/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=2&_nkw=intellivision

And in case you think I am picking on old stuff:

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/Video-Games/139973/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=2&_nkw=ps3

Quote from: guest on 04/20/2017, 03:12 PMWhat would a TG16 price crash look like, anyway? It's not like there's millions of these things sitting around unwanted, waiting for someplace to go.

First, it has to peak. All crashes looked like an upward line until the actual crash. You can't see it as a crash until it has crashed. "There has never been a crash in this segment." is not an economic indicator and it isn't protection from anything. See: The Big Short. They hurt so many people because so many people don't see it coming.

Since we first started speculating on this here I've noticed a few trends. New...stuff, gadgets, games, music, media is ever more obsessed with miniaturization, simplification, and cheapification. However, while that is the biggest market it's not the only one and there is a multi-billion dollar "long tail" that exists now in multiple retro markets because iPhones have one button, because lightweight Bluetooth headphones suck and blow at once, because new games don't have manuals, because iTunes downloads and Spotify streams don't have liner notes, because really, honestly, if we're being *really* honest, 8 and 16 bit games looked better in RGB on an SD monitor they do on that jackoffs giant TV no matter how much he's spent on super high tech scalers.

And because if this Turbo games are expensive. Also, quality mid-range stereo equipment from the 1970s holds its value *astoundingly* well, people still hoard VHS, etc. The current leaders of the electronics industry are clearly leaving something on the table if so many people would rather pay more just to ship a Laserdisc than it would to have a BluRay. Just look at sales of vinyl records. Many many people want the fun of the entire experience more than they want just the single stated purpose of the thing's existence.

Until this changes, old shit will continue to be as popular as dumb beards and shitty tattoos. However, there is a limit to each individual thing's potential fame. After a while, the people who care just die off, literally, then you only have second gen fans who are never going to be quite as devoted as the people who lived it. So really, someday someone's going to say "What the zorking farp is a Bonk?" and nobody will care. If the scene is sufficiently entrenched we'll see a plateau for a long time (just look at comics and sports cards...shit holds it's "value" forever even when nobody is actually buying it) but eventually it will crap out. Consider 78 RPM records. Sure, some are priceless but most are completely worthless. Same with Popeye colectables which used to be huge. The younger people will have their own dumb shit to blow their money on. They aren't going to be able to go sky surfing twice a year while maintaining their fuck robot collection *and* keep propping up the economy of a game machine they've never heard of. There are only so many people in the world and dollars in the economy.

A plateau would almost be a crash, at least by normal investment standards. We've being seeing %100 gains per year on even the lamest shit so a flattening would represent serious shrinkage.

Quote from: guest on 04/20/2017, 03:12 PMWhat would a TG16 price crash look like, anyway? It's not like there's millions of these things sitting around unwanted, waiting for someplace to go.

Game players of all consoles are increasingly switching to flash carts, ISO drives and bizarrely, fake hardware to run physical media from.

It is inevitable that an artificially inflated market based strictly on possession enthusiasm and flipping investments will crash once the ceiling has been reached of what a majority of speculators can afford. When people have no choice but to liquidate their investments and take a loss on everything, even those scooping up the below peak deals will only get hurt that much more as it staggers downward.

The reason that this particular market has remained out of control for so long is that it's backed by a generation who have reached an age of earning power combined with easy to acquire credit. I regularly see threads on collectard friendly forums, where people say that they need to cash out because  they went to far into debt to acquire everything and/or, can't be bothered to collect at all unless they can complete sets and do it fast enough.

The crazy thing about Turbo is that you don't see it at retro stores and even at most conventions.  I went to a local Dallas meetup and no one had any turbo games.  Same with the conventions I been to the last year in this area.  The only place to get some of this stuff is here or on ebay. 

I would expect to see something like Bonk 3 at a convention even if the price was stupid inflated.  I think we will see other more common systems crash like nes/snes before turbo stuff crashes.

Another component to what a crash will look like is when "repros" get so good that it's hard for even the truly knowledgeable to tell the difference, the value of everything will crash under a pile of bootlegs, no one will want to risk spending on anything that is potentially fake, and for those who already knowingly buy fancy premium bootlegs, the "prestige" of owning LE bootlegs will crash, and thus the interest and prices.

Yes, yes, I appreciate the lessons on what a crash is, but the TG16 is a much smaller portion of a much larger market. I don't foresee that a TG16 crash would look anything like our housing crash, or like the comic book market crash, or even like the Atari-induced video game crash of the early 80s. Aside from digital releases, new items are not being manufactured to market. As hardware and HuCards age, more and more items are removed from the market's available pool of salable items. Even as collectors cash-out, stuff breaks and fails. So interest may fall or rise, but available inventory will only fall. And digital re-releases seem to have a mixed relationship to physical prices.

So what I'm really getting at is... would we expect the TG16 market to follow the general classic gaming market, or, being a niche product, would we expect it to be divorced somewhat from that larger market? I don't think a crash in this market would look anything like the 2600 market right now, but it's easier to rule out possibilities than to rule them in. Does anyone have any prognostication about what the TG16 market particularly would look like post-crash?

Considering how little actual US "Turbografx" shit there actually is, yeah, downward trends will lag way behind almost every other system. That's why I think near flatlining is more realistic with overall inflation eventually normalizing the price. Also, as you hint at, they ain't making much of *anything* worth collecting now. When I have money to blow on some doodad I tend to go vintage most of the time. Audio gear, car stuff, games, whatever. So every year there is a new wave of yuppies with their first good job and their first real credit card and they're bidding on the same eBay auctions as everyone else.

However, as Tiger mentioned, these prices we're seeing can't be put on simple supply and demand. These fucks acctually want to spend money, brag about it, and seem to be convinced that every time a game changes hands it should increase in price. That is a fad, and it will die, and it's death will be the majority of the crash. Once the interest rate on their credit cards starts to overtake the flipper bonus made when selling it..there's no money left in the fad! :)

These are all decades out trends in talking here, of course. So anyone who wants to power collect a full library in nine months...yeah, for him there will "never" be a crash because that's how he collects. He just devours shit he can't even use and then dumps it. Five years from now he'll be working full time at his dad's dealership and won't even remember what a Turbo is.

Q: What will the crash look like?
A:
(https://web.archive.org/web/20190510102810im_/http://www.pcengine.co.uk/HiRes/Devil-Crash-Cover.jpg)

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/20/2017, 04:54 PMHowever, as Tiger mentioned, these prices we're seeing can't be put on simple supply and demand. These fucks acctually want to spend money, brag about it, and seem to be convinced that every time a game changes hands it should increase in price. That is a fad, and it will die, and it's death will be the majority of the crash. Once the interest rate on their credit cards starts to overtake the flipper bonus made when selling it..there's no money left in the fad! :)

These are all decades out trends in talking here, of course. So anyone who wants to power collect a full library in nine months...yeah, for him there will "never" be a crash because that's how he collects. He just devours shit he can't even use and then dumps it. Five years from now he'll be working full time at his dad's dealership and won't even remember what a Turbo is.

Yeah that is obnoxious. Gotta get back what I paid! Except no, you really don't. It's not *supposed* to work that way, but it's enabled by desperate buyers who then continue the cycle.

I had a good chuckle at the second paragraph.

Also going into debt for video games is doing it wrong. Call me crazy but housing, transportation (be it a vehicle or a bike or w/e) and say food (if you are in between jobs or something) are things worth going into debt over. If you can't afford a freaking video game, don't buy it. Just emulate it instead, or if you are a real legal larry, just don't play it.

That single tear is shed for those with high credit card debt and no impulse control.

Lol.

Legal Larry...

As for the prices of everything, I'm just glad there are now alternate ways to play pretty much everything these days. Even if you must have a card for every game, there are even reproductions now. This is really a great age if you like playing retro games. If you must have the original plastic case, well, be glad you don't collect Neo Geo.

I think a crash will happen but not universally.  You're never going to see cheap magical chases again; those days are long gone.  People will sit on those rather than take a loss in the thousands. 

That being said?  Keith Courage, TV Sports games, and a few others that are ridiculously common and not particularly good games still routinely sell for over $10 and sometimes up to $20 on ebay.  There's no way these prices can continue for those types of games.

Quote from: Gypsy on 04/20/2017, 10:30 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/20/2017, 04:54 PMHowever, as Tiger mentioned, these prices we're seeing can't be put on simple supply and demand. These fucks acctually want to spend money, brag about it, and seem to be convinced that every time a game changes hands it should increase in price. That is a fad, and it will die, and it's death will be the majority of the crash. Once the interest rate on their credit cards starts to overtake the flipper bonus made when selling it..there's no money left in the fad! :)

These are all decades out trends in talking here, of course. So anyone who wants to power collect a full library in nine months...yeah, for him there will "never" be a crash because that's how he collects. He just devours shit he can't even use and then dumps it. Five years from now he'll be working full time at his dad's dealership and won't even remember what a Turbo is.

Also going into debt for video games is doing it wrong. Call me crazy but housing, transportation (be it a vehicle or a bike or w/e) and say food (if you are in between jobs or something) are things worth going into debt over. If you can't afford a freaking video game, don't buy it. Just emulate it instead, or if you are a real legal larry, just don't play it.

That's the problem, collectards over spending and resellers that enable them (some of whom are the "smart" collectards who fund their collections by flipping, thinking they are market experts, when all they are doing is catering collectards to mash BIN for inflated prices, those inflated prices giving the matter "prestige" or collectard-cred).

I buy and sell a lot, and have done so for about 8+ years now.  From $10-$15 carts to $1000+ sealed across many platforms.  And believe me, when you talk about people buying things on credit, you are talking about a very miniscule amount of collectors.  I get more people saying "Hey can I pay on payday" (maybe ~5-10% of people I've dealt with) than people just financing it on credit.  So all of those assumptions regarding the crash are flat out wrong.

What you do get are life priorities that take place over collecting.  You get married, want to fund a honeymoon.  You have kids, need to convert game room to nursery.  You buy a house / sports car and need  a down payment etc.

Or, as we age, your kid goes to college and you see a $20K+ a year bill coming your way.  Or you have to pay for funerals of loved ones.  Etc.  But those are longer term impacts that shouldn't even be addressed now.

Since the overwhelming majority of this stuff is NOT bought on credit, you won't see an tremendous collapse of people selling stuff for pennies on the dollar.  Besides, not sure if you noticed, but if you list a bunch of like items at 0.99 auctions (which firesellers would have to do), they tend to do well and come damn near (or beat) BIN prices anyway.

I do think prices will taper off at some point as our generation ages and collecting shifts behind other life priorities, but expecting a full on collapse is wishful thinking.

It doesn't really matter whether they buy on credit or spend every dime they have buying games, saving nothing for a rainy day.  The result is the same: eventually they are forced to sell to pay for something else.

Quote from: guest on 04/21/2017, 09:13 AMIt doesn't really matter whether they buy on credit or spend every dime they have buying games, saving nothing for a rainy day.  The result is the same: eventually they are forced to sell to pay for something else.

Which means they couldn't afford and overspent to begin with.

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 04/21/2017, 10:41 AM

Quote from: guest on 04/21/2017, 09:13 AMIt doesn't really matter whether they buy on credit or spend every dime they have buying games, saving nothing for a rainy day.  The result is the same: eventually they are forced to sell to pay for something else.

Which means they couldn't afford and overspent to begin with.

Once again, those are the extremely tiny minority, the vast majority doesn't do that.  The amount of people who need to sell are typically the ones who got in recently, not the veterans who have been collecting a long time.

Speaking of, there was a guy who was selling a full TG16 CIB set on AtariAge a month ago.  I got in on it pretty quick and even I came away with only 3 games.  Simply because the guy has owned them for a decade (or longer), was only willing to sell at high end prices.  No discounts on multiple purchases and just a take it or leave it attitude.  He doesn't care if he takes them to the grave and he doesn't need the money.  Many more of the big collectors are similar to this line of thinking rather than the "need money gotta sell attitude!"

Just FYI but dude was taking a new job in April and probably won't take anymore orders for a long time, and most of the big titles already went.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/263358-interest-check-turbografx-boxed-and-complete-games/

Never seen you post at AtariAge, not surprising you just lurk/leech the marketplace forum.

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 04/21/2017, 12:10 PMNever seen you post at AtariAge, not surprising you just lurk/leech the marketplace forum.

I have friends that keep an eye out for me :)  I do not browse AA and never will.  Browsing here is bad enough :)

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 04/21/2017, 12:10 PMNever seen you post at AtariAge, not surprising you just lurk/leech the marketplace forum.

(https://i.imgur.com/zi6zKkP.jpg)

A forum leech piece of shit?  You don't say.  :lol:

Quote from: jonebone on 04/21/2017, 12:33 PM

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 04/21/2017, 12:10 PMNever seen you post at AtariAge, not surprising you just lurk/leech the marketplace forum.

I have friends that keep an eye out for me :)  I do not browse AA and never will.  Browsing here is bad enough :)

Necro should help you out so don't have to anymore.

This thread is about 15 years too late, the crash already happened.

Why the hostility? Did I miss something? Did jonebone do anything other than have a contrary opinion?

Quote from: guest on 04/21/2017, 01:09 PMWhy the hostility? Did I miss something? Did jonebone do anything other than have a contrary opinion?

He flips product on ebay for prices that many here don't agree with

Quote from: guest on 04/21/2017, 01:15 PM

Quote from: guest on 04/21/2017, 01:09 PMWhy the hostility? Did I miss something? Did jonebone do anything other than have a contrary opinion?

He flips product on ebay for prices that many here don't agree with

Sounds like a keen businessman. That said, I will likely not be buying from him.

The vast majority of threads/videos/etc are full of people talking about how "painful" purchases are or will be, how they can't afford something coming up, but hope to find a way to pay, etc.

Plus, how many people are regularly paying top market for lots of goods every month, without making $100 - 200k?

I know that the majority is now flippers whose liquid collections are also their business. But outside of that, you have to be out of touch with the reality of how the average North American lives to think that most of it is bought with disposable income.


http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=106567

(https://i.imgur.com/1NTfBNd.jpg)

Quote from: guest on 04/21/2017, 02:10 PM(https://i.imgur.com/1NTfBNd.jpg)

This is in reference to the 2600 cart...Chuck the Chasewagon? Whatever it was called....it was a rare 2500 cart?

Or am it totally off?

Quote from: esteban on 04/21/2017, 04:00 PMThis is in reference to the 2600 cart...Chuck the Chasewagon? Whatever it was called....it was a rare 2500 cart?

Or am it totally off?

Nah i'm just dinking around. Everyones talking about economics/precedented market trends, and i'm just sitting over here on photoshop haha

I've stated this before but, well, here goes...Part of the fun of this hobby is researching a single game or two, buying it, savoring it, and putting it away until the urge strikes to enjoy it again. Many of those who buy collections in a few transactions or less get much less out of the experience in comparison. These guys will burn out eventually and move on leaving a charred wasteland behind...but hey, at least they'll be gone so we can rebuild.

Quote from: jonebone on 04/21/2017, 08:24 AMI buy and sell a lot, and have done so for about 8+ years now.  From $10-$15 carts to $1000+ sealed across many platforms.  And believe me, when you talk about people buying things on credit, you are talking about a very miniscule amount of collectors.  I get more people saying "Hey can I pay on payday" (maybe ~5-10% of people I've dealt with) than people just financing it on credit.  So all of those assumptions regarding the crash are flat out wrong.

What you do get are life priorities that take place over collecting.  You get married, want to fund a honeymoon.  You have kids, need to convert game room to nursery.  You buy a house / sports car and need  a down payment etc.

Or, as we age, your kid goes to college and you see a $20K+ a year bill coming your way.  Or you have to pay for funerals of loved ones.  Etc.  But those are longer term impacts that shouldn't even be addressed now.

Since the overwhelming majority of this stuff is NOT bought on credit, you won't see an tremendous collapse of people selling stuff for pennies on the dollar.  Besides, not sure if you noticed, but if you list a bunch of like items at 0.99 auctions (which firesellers would have to do), they tend to do well and come damn near (or beat) BIN prices anyway.

I do think prices will taper off at some point as our generation ages and collecting shifts behind other life priorities, but expecting a full on collapse is wishful thinking.

Are you administrating their PayPal accounts? How the hell do you know if they using credit? This is a serious question because you refer to it as a certainty and I don't see any way you would know at all. Do you have a storefront? You're making some pretty positive claims here.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/21/2017, 08:43 PM

Quote from: jonebone on 04/21/2017, 08:24 AMI buy and sell a lot, and have done so for about 8+ years now.  From $10-$15 carts to $1000+ sealed across many platforms.  And believe me, when you talk about people buying things on credit, you are talking about a very miniscule amount of collectors.  I get more people saying "Hey can I pay on payday" (maybe ~5-10% of people I've dealt with) than people just financing it on credit.  So all of those assumptions regarding the crash are flat out wrong.

What you do get are life priorities that take place over collecting.  You get married, want to fund a honeymoon.  You have kids, need to convert game room to nursery.  You buy a house / sports car and need  a down payment etc.

Or, as we age, your kid goes to college and you see a $20K+ a year bill coming your way.  Or you have to pay for funerals of loved ones.  Etc.  But those are longer term impacts that shouldn't even be addressed now.

Since the overwhelming majority of this stuff is NOT bought on credit, you won't see an tremendous collapse of people selling stuff for pennies on the dollar.  Besides, not sure if you noticed, but if you list a bunch of like items at 0.99 auctions (which firesellers would have to do), they tend to do well and come damn near (or beat) BIN prices anyway.

I do think prices will taper off at some point as our generation ages and collecting shifts behind other life priorities, but expecting a full on collapse is wishful thinking.

Are you administrating their PayPal accounts? How the hell do you know if they using credit? This is a serious question because you refer to it as a certainty and I don't see any way you would know at all. Do you have a storefront? You're making some pretty positive claims here.

In "collector" dominant circles like nintendoage, everyone bragging about being the biggest baller actually believes each other's ego-inflating/insecurity-masking stories. They're all rich and love to post the nerd gamer equivalent of pics of hundred dollar bills and gold jewellery and guns and stupid crap.

This is basically the mentality of omega level collectards:

(https://web.archive.org/web/20190510092259im_/https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/baller1.jpg)(https://web.archive.org/web/20190510092259im_/https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/baller2.jpg)


They always have the same reaction when that stuff doesn't fly here: "you're all just jealous because you can't afford to hang with us true collectors!".


People like Goldenpp who post a short list of games they're looking for and then pay $3600 at once for a handful of them are not the vast majority of regular North Americans if it's not paid for by going into debt. He even admitted to not being familiar with Turbo games, yet buying ones he hasn't played based only on whims and videos.

Quote from: VestCunt on 06/07/2016, 10:24 AMI like how he spent $3,600 in one pop and still needs most of the rares.
#collectardfails

Goldenpp offered some insight into the mindset of those driving the market irrationally:

QuoteWhen I first began, things were cheaper, sellers were looser and in general it was a lot easier to deal with, it only took about 5 years for me to begin regretting going for complete titles because of the way pricing was jacking up so much, but when you get that far into something, it becomes difficult for some of us to back away and call it quits, even if it takes out a lot more money than expected. However, the urge for me to complete my various system collections comes from the desire to get it over with in the event the cost continue to rise, I do not want even more games to reach a prohibitive point that I can no longer ever afford to purchase them (as many have)


It's true I spend a lot of time collecting which is a lot less time I can use for the playing aspect, but if I spend too much time playing and not buying, suddenly that game I thought was 30 bucks is now 100 bucks, and that creates a lot of issues for me as i'm not a rich guy, this stuff takes a long time for me to save money for.

That is a vicious cycle that you cannot keep up with.

Hmmmmm.... I suddenly get the urge to bathe with my cardboard TG-16 boxes now!

This thread has inspired me to evolve into a truly better human being.

Self-actuated God of Game.

I am no longer Human Dog.

Peace be with you, comrades.

Amen.

I don't know anything about guns or body hair really but those aren't very impressive guitars. Not worth photographing yourself in your underwear for. I wonder if he wants to borrow my J-185 for a front shoot.

Quote from: jonebone on 04/21/2017, 12:33 PM

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 04/21/2017, 12:10 PMNever seen you post at AtariAge, not surprising you just lurk/leech the marketplace forum.

I have friends that keep an eye out for me :)  I do not browse AA and never will.  Browsing here is bad enough :)

I didn't realize there was a creature below the leech. The more you know.

Friday at 3pm....    the bubble pops. Set your alarm clocks.

I'm not really into US Turbografx collecting but I have thought about the retro videogame market/crash in general. The thing is, people find it very easy to justify spending big money on expensive old games. They are not making anymore of them, I play it a lot so I will get my moneys worth, its still a same price as a new PS4 game, I play it and can sell it for the same price, its just an investment etc.

All things considered I find the japanese PC-engine Hucard games suprisingly reasonable priced for most part, especially if you compare them to complete games of the same vintage from SEGA and Nintendo. Especially shooters which tend to hold their value pretty well.

Quote from: CrackTiger on 04/21/2017, 09:30 PMIn "collector" dominant circles like nintendoage, everyone bragging about being the biggest baller actually believes each other's ego-inflating/insecurity-masking stories. They're all rich and love to post the nerd gamer equivalent of pics of hundred dollar bills and gold jewellery and guns and stupid crap.

This is basically the mentality of omega level collectards:

They're socially validating each other <3 It's the people that do this the most who have the most phyc issues. Maybe mommy was too busy at her bookclub, daddy didn't come to those baseball games. There's something that makes these people CRY out for attention. Like I see people make "mail call posts" all the time. Showing off their little samson or something that they paid TOP DOLLA for. There's nothing special about this, they might as well post about how they're getting their roof redone or getting bodywork done on their BMW. It's just as "impressive".

This is why I quit posting my purchases on FB. Trying to set a good example I guess. Though here is a different story since I know most of you peeps, many for almost a decade. I haven't posted in years though since my accident. Plus I'm lazy lol.

Quote from: Nulltard on 04/29/2017, 12:01 AMI am ashamed to admit I have 3 fullsets of NA tg16.  One sealed (keeping), one cic (keeping for playing), and one cib (selling).

Over the next few weeks I will be selling these in the DoxPhile chat. I am proud to offer these to true gamers at bro prices. Fuck eBay and fb... I love you guys and am happy to spread the joy.

Enter me in this raffle.

Quote from: Nulltard on 04/29/2017, 12:01 AMOne sealed (keeping), one cic (keeping for playing), and one cib (selling).

Exactly how a Star Wars action figure collector sounds like

Quote from: guest on 04/29/2017, 12:35 AMEnter me in this raffle.

Most game raffles are a scam, and the few that are legit are illegal in most jurisdictions unless the proceeds go to a non-profit organization.

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 04/29/2017, 01:41 AMMost game raffles are a scam, and the few that are legit are illegal in most jurisdictions unless the proceeds go to a non-profit organization.

+1 for StarDust in the next raffle

Quote from: guest on 04/29/2017, 12:35 AM

Quote from: Nulltard on 04/29/2017, 12:01 AMI am ashamed to admit I have 3 fullsets of NA tg16.  One sealed (keeping), one cic (keeping for playing), and one cib (selling).

Over the next few weeks I will be selling these in the DoxPhile chat. I am proud to offer these to true gamers at bro prices. Fuck eBay and fb... I love you guys and am happy to spread the joy.

Enter me in this raffle.

I also enter Rolfmao into this raffle.

*Looks at thread date* Jesus, are we still debating this? As I have stated in the past (others as well), if emulation hasn't killed it nothing will.

Quote from: Nulltard on 04/29/2017, 12:01 AMI am ashamed to admit I have 3 fullsets of NA tg16.  One sealed (keeping), one cic (keeping for playing), and one cib (selling).

Over the next few weeks I will be selling these in the DoxPhile chat. I am proud to offer these to true gamers at bro prices. Fuck eBay and fb... I love you guys and am happy to spread the joy.

Fuck, I missed the illegal raffle and lost all bro priced turbob

Quote from: guest on 04/21/2017, 09:30 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/21/2017, 08:43 PM

Quote from: jonebone on 04/21/2017, 08:24 AMI buy and sell a lot, and have done so for about 8+ years now.  From $10-$15 carts to $1000+ sealed across many platforms.  And believe me, when you talk about people buying things on credit, you are talking about a very miniscule amount of collectors.  I get more people saying "Hey can I pay on payday" (maybe ~5-10% of people I've dealt with) than people just financing it on credit.  So all of those assumptions regarding the crash are flat out wrong.

What you do get are life priorities that take place over collecting.  You get married, want to fund a honeymoon.  You have kids, need to convert game room to nursery.  You buy a house / sports car and need  a down payment etc.

Or, as we age, your kid goes to college and you see a $20K+ a year bill coming your way.  Or you have to pay for funerals of loved ones.  Etc.  But those are longer term impacts that shouldn't even be addressed now.

Since the overwhelming majority of this stuff is NOT bought on credit, you won't see an tremendous collapse of people selling stuff for pennies on the dollar.  Besides, not sure if you noticed, but if you list a bunch of like items at 0.99 auctions (which firesellers would have to do), they tend to do well and come damn near (or beat) BIN prices anyway.

I do think prices will taper off at some point as our generation ages and collecting shifts behind other life priorities, but expecting a full on collapse is wishful thinking.

Are you administrating their PayPal accounts? How the hell do you know if they using credit? This is a serious question because you refer to it as a certainty and I don't see any way you would know at all. Do you have a storefront? You're making some pretty positive claims here.

In "collector" dominant circles like nintendoage, everyone bragging about being the biggest baller actually believes each other's ego-inflating/insecurity-masking stories. They're all rich and love to post the nerd gamer equivalent of pics of hundred dollar bills and gold jewellery and guns and stupid crap.

This is basically the mentality of omega level collectards:

(https://web.archive.org/web/20190510092259im_/https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/baller1.jpg)(https://web.archive.org/web/20190510092259im_/https://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/baller2.jpg)

They always have the same reaction when that stuff doesn't fly here: "you're all just jealous because you can't afford to hang with us true collectors!".


People like Goldenpp who post a short list of games they're looking for and then pay $3600 at once for a handful of them are not the vast majority of regular North Americans if it's not paid for by going into debt. He even admitted to not being familiar with Turbo games, yet buying ones he hasn't played based only on whims and videos.

Quote from: guest on 06/07/2016, 10:24 AMI like how he spent $3,600 in one pop and still needs most of the rares.
#collectardfails

Goldenpp offered some insight into the mindset of those driving the market irrationally:

QuoteWhen I first began, things were cheaper, sellers were looser and in general it was a lot easier to deal with, it only took about 5 years for me to begin regretting going for complete titles because of the way pricing was jacking up so much, but when you get that far into something, it becomes difficult for some of us to back away and call it quits, even if it takes out a lot more money than expected. However, the urge for me to complete my various system collections comes from the desire to get it over with in the event the cost continue to rise, I do not want even more games to reach a prohibitive point that I can no longer ever afford to purchase them (as many have)


It's true I spend a lot of time collecting which is a lot less time I can use for the playing aspect, but if I spend too much time playing and not buying, suddenly that game I thought was 30 bucks is now 100 bucks, and that creates a lot of issues for me as i'm not a rich guy, this stuff takes a long time for me to save money for.

That is a vicious cycle that you cannot keep up with.

If there was a like button, I'd break my mouse clicking it for this post.

The great thing about collecting isn't buying the games, it's showing everyone online that I did.
360ShowOff.webp

I quit posting in haul threads on my other message boards a while ago.  I realized how silly it was to take pictures of my crap, upload them to imgur, and post them on a forum for others to see.  If I buy something, it's to enjoy it.  It's fine to share your experiences and opinions, but I'm not sure what I was trying to accomplish by producing photographic evidence that I bought a Saturn.

Quote from: zetastrike on 05/09/2017, 06:34 PMI quit posting in haul threads on my other message boards a while ago.  I realized how silly it was to take pictures of my crap, upload them to imgur, and post them on a forum for others to see.  If I buy something, it's to enjoy it.  It's fine to share your experiences and opinions, but I'm not sure what I was trying to accomplish by producing photographic evidence that I bought a Saturn.

I used to be pretty active on a guitar forum and it's exactly the same. Maybe worse because most of the guitars posted are brand new. Like, anyone could go out and find that exact model in that exact color in stock at their local music store.

Content/context I suppose, I see guys posting about finding $3 PS3 games at a pawn shop, and flipping them to a retro game store for $20 more. I'm always confused why they post something so uninteresting..  But on the other end I see guys posting quality stuff, like finding a TurboDuo at a garage sale for $20. Which is actually cool to see and is way less likely to happen. Anyone can go out and get those dirty pawn shop deals, just like anyone can spend their pay cheque and buy that $6,500 lot of TurboGrafx boxes on eBay.

Quote from: Mathius on 04/29/2017, 09:59 PM

Quote from: guest on 04/29/2017, 12:35 AM

Quote from: Nulltard on 04/29/2017, 12:01 AMI am ashamed to admit I have 3 fullsets of NA tg16.  One sealed (keeping), one cic (keeping for playing), and one cib (selling).

Over the next few weeks I will be selling these in the DoxPhile chat. I am proud to offer these to true gamers at bro prices. Fuck eBay and fb... I love you guys and am happy to spread the joy.

Enter me in this raffle.

I also enter Rolfmao into this raffle.

I will not enter that raffle.  It's a trap set by Nulltard.

There was a guy on Atariage who posted finding a TG-16 and several games at an estate sale for $40.  That's the kind of stuff that's post-worthy.  I'd feel like a doofus if I posted a "Hey look at the cool stuff I bought" that anyone who can use a computer could have acquired.

Quote from: zetastrike on 05/11/2017, 05:29 AMThere was a guy on Atariage who posted finding a TG-16 and several games at an estate sale for $40.  That's the kind of stuff that's post-worthy.  I'd feel like a doofus if I posted a "Hey look at the cool stuff I bought" that anyone who can use a computer could have acquired.

More often than not, it's bragging rights. A lot of posts "look what came in the mail today" do not include the bounty paid for it. :-#

I don't their will be a bubble, more a correction and slow deflation. Kinda like keeping a balloon for a long time. This is due to faggers always wanting to sell stuff for more than they paid and never less, and would rather keep it.

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 05/11/2017, 05:33 AMMore often than not, it's bragging rights. A lot of posts "look what came in the mail today" do not include the bounty paid for it. :-#

Bandwagon enthusiasts don't know any better about what stuff costs, so to them something like a Bonks Adventure for $50 seems like an accomplishment. They live in a scarcity mindset, that just because it's 25 years old it's hard to find; therefore the price is justified

After the new generation of retro gamers dies off to old geezer status, maybe after that prices will go down. Thoughts?

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 05/19/2017, 03:36 AMAfter the new generation of retro gamers dies off to old geezer status, maybe after that prices will go down. Thoughts?

I think the important question is:

When will you die?

Estimate to the nearest month and year.

Thank you.

:)

(I am joking!)


SRSLY, though, I wonder about my own *elevated stress levels* and I wish medical science would stop publishing research findings about the dangers of stress.

Goddamn science.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 05/19/2017, 03:36 AMAfter the new generation of retro gamers dies off to old geezer status, maybe after that prices will go down. Thoughts?

As a younger guy who recently visit Graceland and saw quite a few people in the 30s and 40s that weren't alive to see Elvis perform, I would say things that are popular have legs beyond their original target audience.

The NES Classic is proof of that, guarantee a lot of millennials that weren't alive when the NES was big had to have it.

Quote from: TheClash603 on 05/19/2017, 08:23 AM

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 05/19/2017, 03:36 AMAfter the new generation of retro gamers dies off to old geezer status, maybe after that prices will go down. Thoughts?

As a younger guy who recently visit Graceland and saw quite a few people in the 30s and 40s that weren't alive to see Elvis perform, I would say things that are popular have legs beyond their original target audience.

The NES Classic is proof of that, guarantee a lot of millennials that weren't alive when the NES was big had to have it.

While I am of the NES generation, I picked up Atari for the first time in 2012.

Janice Joplin and Jimmi Hendrix both died in 1970 of Heroine overdose. I was born in 1981 and found myself a fan of their music. I have all the reisdued Hendrix albums including three posthumus albums, and was spinning Joplin's last album Pearl (not a repressing) on the turntable after I hunted it down online, and rather enjoyed it.

Were the unborn 80's babies really the intended audience when they first pressed this record? "Hey, let's press a million of this record so some kid not even thought of can buy it in 40 years..." Somehow I doubt it. So I don't find it that surprising that new "mellinials" are getting into NES, et al. I put "mellinial" into quotes as I self identify with Generation Y, which have unfortunately been dissolved into Mellinials. If I had to pick one, I definitely relate more to the Xers but am not.

Back on topic, Turbografx is one of those systems you start collecting for after you get into the "branching out" phase of retro collecting, looking for stuff you did not experience bitd or might have missed. For the young retro-collector, everything is new and exciting. Anyone who falls in love with the NES/SNES/Genesis era will discover PC Engine / Turbografx at some point. But since the Turbo sold an order of magnitude fewer units in the US compared to it's competition (and Japan is a much smaller market even if the PCe was wildly more successful there), games will remain high. If there is a video game market crash in the future, Turbo/PCe will be one of the last pillarsto fall, next to Neo Geo.


Since picking up a Satellite radio in 2010, I have continued to discover old music I never knew existed in my younger years. It's no different with younger retro gamers. If they aren't consuming "nostalgia", they are creating it. A record first spun in 1970 sounds no different that spinning it in 2017, aside from minor groove wear which only adds to the vintage feel. A game cart first played in 1977 or 1990 is still the same experience picked up secondhand in the present, if being played for the first time by the new owner.

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 05/19/2017, 08:49 AMIf there is a video game market crash in the future, Turbo/PCe will be one of the last pillarsto fall, next to Neo Geo.

Interesting perspective, I've never looked at it that way before. Makes sense!
As a lot of people who own games for NeoGeo, PCE and TG16 are in this for the long haul. But looking at other consoles like NES, SNES and N64. The majority of people owning these games are collectors that seem unstable with what they call "assets".
So yeah, we would be one of the last markets to crash. Which is because we're in one of the most dedicated gaming communities. Which is awesome! But bad if you're hoping for a price crash (reference my pic a few pages back)

I think games from NES era to end of 16-bit era have certain timeless quality to them. Something that Atari 2600 never quite managed and the collecting scene was driven almost purely by nostalgia.
NES, Megadrive, SNES, PCE games are great on their own right and are still fun to play to this day, even for modern teenagers. And they are part of our collective pop culture in the same vain as iconic comic books or Elvis Presley. If I would be a present day teenager and would constantly hear references to these iconic games I would surely like to find out more and try them, just like wanting to watch classic movies to understand where the fundamentals came from.
TG16/PCE is ofcourse nowhere near as iconic as the NES but many of the same principles apply.

And I think its also worth remembering that many of the collecting busts (like sport cards or comic books) never affected the value of the original scarce article. Although games are slightly different in a sense that their survivol rate is pretty high, maybe the cardboard boxes would be a better analogue considering the scarcity and their original throw away status.

Quote from: Winniez on 05/19/2017, 03:29 PMI think games from NES era to end of 16-bit era have certain timeless quality to them. Something that Atari 2600 never quite managed and the collecting scene was driven almost purely by nostalgia.
NES, Megadrive, SNES, PCE games are great on their own right and are still fun to play to this day, even for modern teenagers. And they are part of our collective pop culture in the same vain as iconic comic books or Elvis Presley. If I would be a present day teenager and would constantly hear references to these iconic games I would surely like to find out more and try them, just like wanting to watch classic movies to understand where the fundamentals came from.
TG16/PCE is ofcourse nowhere near as iconic as the NES but many of the same principles apply.

I can definitely agree with this. I'm not big on the NES but games of this era are definitely timeless imo. Games like Rondo are just as great today as back when they were new.

The closest analog to TG outer boxes was the long box phase of CD (also exclusively American, AFAIK) and not even people with pins on their hats colect that shit so I've just decided that most game collectors are aesthetically retarded clods who collect whatever makes sense to collect based on their bankrupt hollow existence and almost total lack of knowledge of science history or art.

Something I've discussed with friends before...game collectors really don't seem to understand WTF it is they even collect. Whereas fans of cars or records or books or synthesizers tend to have extremely broad knowledge of what they are obsessed over, video game collectors are so damned dumb they think bootlegs are worth money...

I hope so and I hope everyone who "invested" becomes a homeless piece of shit.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/19/2017, 06:02 PMThe closest analog to TG outer boxes was the long box phase of CD (also exclusively American, AFAIK) and not even people with pins on their hats colect that shit so I've just decided that most game collectors are aesthetically retarded clods who collect whatever makes sense to collect based on their bankrupt hollow existence and almost total lack of knowledge of science history or art.

Something I've discussed with friends before...game collectors really don't seem to understand WTF it is they even collect. Whereas fans of cars or records or books or synthesizers tend to have extremely broad knowledge of what they are obsessed over, video game collectors are so damned dumb they think bootlegs are worth money...

Weren't the long boxes specific to a console though? I mean you could swap the inserts between the games.  If you wanna see utterly useless game cases have a butchers at the European Saturn cases. I mean it takes some serious effort to design a case that bad.

The TG16 is the only system I know of with long boxes, and they are only "long" by a couple of cm making them %100 pointless. CD long boxes at least were designed to make CDs as tall as a record so stores wouldn't have to buy new racks.

Of course it only worked so well, mainly because a longbox is twice the volume of a regular CD case and four times as big as a record so you suddenly had less room in your store for a format that supposedly saved space.

Btw, IMO Euro DC cases are even worse than the Saturn ones.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/19/2017, 08:14 PMThe TG16 is the only system I know of with long boxes, and they are only "long" by a couple of cm making them %100 pointless. CD long boxes at least were designed to make CDs as tall as a record so stores wouldn't have to buy new racks.

Of course it only worked so well, mainly because a longbox is twice the volume of a regular CD case and four times as big as a record so you suddenly had less room in your store for a format that supposedly saved space.

Btw, IMO Euro DC cases are even worse than the Saturn ones.

These things are the worst and I have entirely too many of them.

Ah, ok. I ment the US SEGA CD and Saturn, those tall jewel cases.

The EURO DC cases are indeed bad but atleast they are interchangeable. The Saturn cases are a unholy mixture of cheap cardboard and bad jewel case design.

Quote from: Winniez on 05/19/2017, 08:49 PMThe EURO DC cases are indeed bad but atleast they are interchangeable. The Saturn cases are a unholy mixture of cheap cardboard and bad jewel case design.

The only good Saturn cases are the Japanese ones for sure.

Indeed, it seems that Japan got it right instantly. Normal jewel cases, good design, compact and no need to do anything else. In the West however it seems that CD games had to look bigger and more impressive on the shelves, hence all the funky cases.

Quote from: Winniez on 05/19/2017, 08:57 PMIndeed, it seems that Japan got it right instantly. Normal jewel cases, good design, compact and no need to do anything else. In the West however it seems that CD games had to look bigger and more impressive on the shelves, hence all the funky cases.

Yeah America likes things BIGGER or something. Just look at the Turbografx lol.

I avoid buying the US version of Saturn games when I can, even cheapies, if I can play the Japanese version that's what I get. So much easier to store and not damage.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/19/2017, 08:14 PMThe TG16 is the only system I know of with long boxes, and they are only "long" by a couple of cm making them %100 pointless. CD long boxes at least were designed to make CDs as tall as a record so stores wouldn't have to buy new racks.

Of course it only worked so well, mainly because a longbox is twice the volume of a regular CD case and four times as big as a record so you suddenly had less room in your store for a format that supposedly saved space.

Btw, IMO Euro DC cases are even worse than the Saturn ones.

The only longboxes I like to buy sometimes are the PSX game longboxes wtih the cardboard/plastic, and it's purely because of how goddamn stupid they are, and that it reminds me of how stupid they were and how we laughed at them when they came out.

I have maybe 4 games in those cases.



I routinely bitch at them when I realize they are fucking my shelf space up.

That's not what a longbox is. A longbox is when you have a perfectly suitable jewel case, done and dusted, and then you go and put all that into another box, just because.

The dumb tall cases that originated with Sega CD and lasted all the way through US Saturn and a large part of US PS weren't long boxes. They aren't boxes of any kind, they are shitty jewel cases. The Sony ones, honeslty, being way nicer than the Sega ones, which basically shatter on sight. My favorite is Panzer Dragoon Saga, which has three of its four CDs in paper envelopes banging around in the box because that giant ass case can't hold more than 1CD, despite being twice as big as a standard 4xCD audio CD case (which is what the JP version came in).

American audio CDs from major labels from the beginning up until about 1990 had long boxes (mostly hollow) to make the CD packaging 12" high. It's mostly hollow since CD cases are less than 6".

Turbo games have a "longbox" that isn't even long. Doesn't help it fit into special shelving. Doesn't increase visibility (which is why Sega and Sony did what they did). Doesn't even have extra info on it or anything TOTALLY POINTLESS.

Ah, interesting. I didn't know that. Like I said by longbox I just ment those tall jewel cases, just used a wrong terminology.
And yeah, I have the japanese Panzer Dragoon Saga and it does indeed have that standard double CD case.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/19/2017, 08:14 PMThe TG16 is the only system I know of with long boxes, and they are only "long" by a couple of cm making them %100 pointless. CD long boxes at least were designed to make CDs as tall as a record so stores wouldn't have to buy new racks.

Of course it only worked so well, mainly because a longbox is twice the volume of a regular CD case and four times as big as a record so you suddenly had less room in your store for a format that supposedly saved space.

Btw, IMO Euro DC cases are even worse than the Saturn ones.

Could somebody point to an example of the CD "long box?" I have never heard of these. Sams Club comes to mind as they used to do extra long paper cases for DVD movies as a type of theft deterrence, which I believe were only exclusive to their stores.

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longbox

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 05/20/2017, 12:08 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/19/2017, 08:14 PMThe TG16 is the only system I know of with long boxes, and they are only "long" by a couple of cm making them %100 pointless. CD long boxes at least were designed to make CDs as tall as a record so stores wouldn't have to buy new racks.

Of course it only worked so well, mainly because a longbox is twice the volume of a regular CD case and four times as big as a record so you suddenly had less room in your store for a format that supposedly saved space.

Btw, IMO Euro DC cases are even worse than the Saturn ones.

Could somebody point to an example of the CD "long box?" I have never heard of these. Sams Club comes to mind as they used to do extra long paper cases for DVD movies as a type of theft deterrence, which I believe were only exclusive to their stores.

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longbox

Yes, generic cardboard longboxes were used at Costco/Sams Club/etc. for many, many years...after 99% of retailers stopped bothering (or switched to plastic reusable anti-theft devices).

Longboxes were very common during the first few years of retail CD sales. I bought my first CD player in 1985-86 and even MAIL ORDER CDs arrived in longboxes (Kraftwerk's Autobahn or Electric Cafe, for example...I ordered that via mail order because many local stores had very limited CD selection in first few years).

It was just "normal" to see hundreds of shrinkwrapped longboxes at a store ....now, what Zeta forgot is that some longboxes actually had some artwork/design on them (an "extension" of the Cd/album art, but never anything that you would be upset at losing), but that specialized art/design/packaging quickly faded away (production costs, I reckon) in favor of generic  long boxes.

Then, later, as an anti-theft measure, stores just started using plastic security cases that were essentially the same size ( a little bigger) than the CD longboxes...

It was my understanding that longboxes helped with transition from records--> CDs...customer could flip through CDs in same manner, at the same shelves...

I haven't googled any images yet, but it would be fun to see *creative kool* longbox art vs. *lame* "why bother?" design....I am pretty sure that often a record label logo would be on a longbox (no art/design unique to the album itself).

^ I never had that album, surprisingly! :)

Here is Electric Cafe (I don't even remember this):

(https://web.archive.org/web/20190510080432im_/http://ricochet.boomerthedog.net/blog/junk/DSCF8509.JPG)

Yeah, I was going to mention that some longboxes had more art than the standard jewel case but in every case I can recall it's the same art used for the LP and the CD itself just layed out for a vertical format. Whereas many times obi on Japanese releases would have on them something, a little blurb or ads for other releases, I can't think of any longboxes that did...you know, actuality use the thing in an interesting way.

The early Warner issues of New Order's Substance 1987 (a 2CD set) actually mostly filled up the longbox. Each CD was in its own jewel case, one at the top, one at the bottom. Later issues switched to a standard double case.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/20/2017, 10:11 AMYeah, I was going to mention that some longboxes had more art than the standard jewel case but in every case I can recall it's the same art used for the LP and the CD itself just layed out for a vertical format. Whereas many times obi on Japanese releases would have on them something, a little blurb or ads for other releases, I can't think of any longboxes that did...you know, actuality use the thing in an interesting way.

The early Warner issues of New Order's Substance 1987 (a 2CD set) actually mostly filled up the longbox. Each CD was in its own jewel case, one at the top, one at the bottom. Later issues switched to a standard double case.

Ha, I had some bootleg New Order Substance Remixes (not too great) and it came in two separate jewel boxes (I think I bought them at separate times, too)...it never occurred to me that it might have actually been an "homage" to the original CD release....

I got my first CD player in 1992 and I did a bunch of CD shopping after that.  My only value in this discussion is to confirm by 1992 long boxes were a thing of the past.

If your record store never had anything more than two years old in it, sure. That's a pretty shitty store though.

For me the CD longbox was unknown aswell.  I would imagine we had them in Europe aswell but not sure, I'm really not that familiar with record formats.
In defence of the PAL DC cases - as bad as they are - atleast they served a purpose (like the CD longboxes I suppose), their thickness allowed them to house a large instruction manual in several European languages. I think the original PAL DS cases were made thick for the same reason.

Quote from: Winniez on 05/20/2017, 01:50 PMFor me the CD longbox was unknown aswell.  I would imagine we had them in Europe aswell but not sure, I'm really not that familiar with record formats.
In defence of the PAL DC cases - as bad as they are - atleast they served a purpose (like the CD longboxes I suppose), their thickness allowed them to house a large instruction manual in several European languages. I think the original PAL DS cases were made thick for the same reason.

In some cases two really thick manuals. I know the copies of Shenmue I/II I have are dual manual.

Ah, really. I don't have any SEGA PAL games anymore.
Isn't there anything good about PAL games (besides nostalgia for some) often most expensive, crippled with 50hz/bars and crappy cases.

I have the Shenmues so I didn't have to play Shenmue II with the horrible English dub. The first Shenmue I grabbed for $8 so I figured what the hell, it's easier than screwing with my VMU to use clear data for the second game.

I think all my other EU DC games were $10 or less each. Some hilarious appreciated in value like Evil Twin of which my old copy resides now with xelementx.

DC is the only system I have EU games for oddly enough, though Sega Ages tempts me due to the much cheaper price than the US release.

Quote from: Gypsy on 05/20/2017, 02:49 PMI have the Shenmues so I didn't have to play Shenmue II with the horrible English dub. The first Shenmue I grabbed for $8 so I figured what the hell, it's easier than screwing with my VMU to use clear data for the second game.

I think all my other EU DC games were $10 or less each. Some hilarious appreciated in value like Evil Twin of which my old copy resides now with xelementx.

DC is the only system I have EU games for oddly enough, though Sega Ages tempts me due to the much cheaper price than the US release.

I think DC was ahead of its time in a sense that it offered many games in PAL60, makes it way better for you guys in the US aswell.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/19/2017, 11:01 PMThat's not what a longbox is. A longbox is when you have a perfectly suitable jewel case, done and dusted, and then you go and put all that into another box, just because.

The dumb tall cases that originated with Sega CD and lasted all the way through US Saturn and a large part of US PS weren't long boxes. They aren't boxes of any kind, they are shitty jewel cases. The Sony ones, honeslty, being way nicer than the Sega ones, which basically shatter on sight. My favorite is Panzer Dragoon Saga, which has three of its four CDs in paper envelopes banging around in the box because that giant ass case can't hold more than 1CD, despite being twice as big as a standard 4xCD audio CD case (which is what the JP version came in).

American audio CDs from major labels from the beginning up until about 1990 had long boxes (mostly hollow) to make the CD packaging 12" high. It's mostly hollow since CD cases are less than 6".

Turbo games have a "longbox" that isn't even long. Doesn't help it fit into special shelving. Doesn't increase visibility (which is why Sega and Sony did what they did). Doesn't even have extra info on it or anything TOTALLY POINTLESS.

OH you mean THOSE things.   Now I remember those.  Yeah those were dumb.   

I associate anything that's bigger than a jewel case with "dumb idea", unless the box has extra stuff in it and is clearly a special version.

Even those CDs that came in a cardboard sleeve and had NOTHING EXTRA were stupid.  A few of those amounts to one whole jewel case, and that mattered to me when I was shoving stuff on a CD rack.

... and those didn't even fit on the CD racks with the divider grooves.

Quote from: Winniez on 05/20/2017, 03:04 PM

Quote from: Gypsy on 05/20/2017, 02:49 PMI have the Shenmues so I didn't have to play Shenmue II with the horrible English dub. The first Shenmue I grabbed for $8 so I figured what the hell, it's easier than screwing with my VMU to use clear data for the second game.

I think all my other EU DC games were $10 or less each. Some hilarious appreciated in value like Evil Twin of which my old copy resides now with xelementx.

DC is the only system I have EU games for oddly enough, though Sega Ages tempts me due to the much cheaper price than the US release.

I think DC was ahead of its time in a sense that it offered many games in PAL60, makes it way better for you guys in the US aswell.

Who needs PAL60 when you have 640x480 RGB? :)

Didn't feel like thinking more then two seconds.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/201918923992

Never knew of this it just piped up in my eBay feed. Apart from the price it honestly interests me. But then there the price.

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 05/20/2017, 08:30 PMDidn't feel like thinking more then two seconds.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/201918923992

Never knew of this it just piped up in my eBay feed. Apart from the price it honestly interests me. But then there the price.

The ultimate unobtainable. Though not worth the money IMO.

Quote from: Mathius on 05/20/2017, 09:31 PM

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 05/20/2017, 08:30 PMDidn't feel like thinking more then two seconds.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/201918923992

Never knew of this it just piped up in my eBay feed. Apart from the price it honestly interests me. But then there the price.

The ultimate unobtainable. Though not worth the money IMO.

Very much agree. I could easily purchase that listing, but why? Many other things are a much better use of those funds.

Quote from: Gypsy on 05/20/2017, 10:16 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 05/20/2017, 09:31 PM

Quote from: Medic_wheat on 05/20/2017, 08:30 PMDidn't feel like thinking more then two seconds.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/201918923992

Never knew of this it just piped up in my eBay feed. Apart from the price it honestly interests me. But then there the price.

The ultimate unobtainable. Though not worth the money IMO.

Very much agree. I could easily purchase that listing, but why? Many other things are a much better use of those funds.

Like a new water heater?  lol that's what I did. That and paying the IRS $1,500 because they didn't take enough taxes last year from me.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/20/2017, 12:16 PMIf your record store never had anything more than two years old in it, sure. That's a pretty shitty store though.

When I got my first CD player I lived in a rural area, my record store was Ames and they had about 100 cds and they were all top 40 + country.  I actually recall buying a lot of CDs from catalogs.

Rural life sucked, I did it for a few years of my childhood.  Related to that is my love of video games, cause what the fuck else was there to do?

Quote from: TheClash603 on 05/21/2017, 02:05 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/20/2017, 12:16 PMIf your record store never had anything more than two years old in it, sure. That's a pretty shitty store though.

When I got my first CD player I lived in a rural area, my record store was Ames and they had about 100 cds and they were all top 40 + country.  I actually recall buying a lot of CDs from catalogs.

Rural life sucked, I did it for a few years of my childhood.  Related to that is my love of video games, cause what the fuck else was there to do?

ColumbiaHouse!
YEAHHAAAAAA

It's been a long time since I have posted anything but man looking at eBay prices today man am I glad I have an everdrive.

Quote from: guest on 05/21/2017, 02:59 AM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 05/21/2017, 02:05 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/20/2017, 12:16 PMIf your record store never had anything more than two years old in it, sure. That's a pretty shitty store though.

When I got my first CD player I lived in a rural area, my record store was Ames and they had about 100 cds and they were all top 40 + country.  I actually recall buying a lot of CDs from catalogs.

Rural life sucked, I did it for a few years of my childhood.  Related to that is my love of video games, cause what the fuck else was there to do?

ColumbiaHouse!
YEAHHAAAAAA

I was a rural kid too and I got into a lot of trouble with Columbia House. My parents were so angry at me when the first collections bill came lol.

So, are CD longboxes and 3DO boxes the same?  I had a few 3DO boxes and eventually put them somewhere and now they're in a box in my parents' attic if they still exist at all.  Man, those things were terrible.

Quote from: seieienbu on 05/21/2017, 06:44 PMSo, are CD longboxes and 3DO boxes the same?  I had a few 3DO boxes and eventually put them somewhere and now they're in a box in my parents' attic if they still exist at all.  Man, those things were terrible.

Most 3DO long boxes were their own thing. Kinda a mesh between "true" PS1 longboxes and early two-piece cardboard PC boxes. Other one-piece 3DO boxes resembled those of early music CD packaging and were far less durable. Both were way too tall.

Quote from: Winniez on 05/20/2017, 02:44 PMAh, really. I don't have any SEGA PAL games anymore.
Isn't there anything good about PAL games (besides nostalgia for some) often most expensive, crippled with 50hz/bars and crappy cases.

Most SMS games were not region dependent, and SMS was much more successful in Europe because Nintendo couldn't strongarm developers to not produce games for it there unlike in the US. A few PAL games that did too much processing in the overscan region or had otehr timing issues may have had artifacts, but for the majority of games, the PAL SMS games ran stock on NTSC hardware. Sonic infamously had a NTSC specific region sticker on the box.

Sega had lockouts with Megadrive/Genesis, but it was game optional. My PAL Psycho Pinball and Micro Machines II carts run fine on my US Genesis. Then the Turbografx never really made it out of US/Japan, so the relatively few test market PAL consoles are just NTSC hardware with gimped 50Hz video.

NES is in a similar situation with many games running on stock NES hardware with the region chip disabled, and in rare instances wher the PAL games were optimized, run too fast and at wrong pitch on NTSC hardware, or slow/flat on PAL hardware. SNES and N64 also had lockout chips and physical tabs as well, which can be broken on a US SNES to support Super Famicom carts but not the like-shaped PAL carts. Nintendo started adding microcode to most SNES games released after 1992 to prevent pass-through converters from playing out of region carts on PAL SNES systems.

Atari 2600 used incompatible color pallets between PAL and NTSC systems and the 50Hz refresh rates made most NTSC TVs roll or at least crop the bottom. 7800 was completely incompatible across regions.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/19/2017, 11:01 PMMy favorite is Panzer Dragoon Saga, which has three of its four CDs in paper envelopes banging around in the box because that giant ass case can't hold more than 1CD, despite being twice as big as a standard 4xCD audio CD case (which is what the JP version came in).

There are some 2 CD Saturn games that came with a special disc tray that slots in above the main tray, for what it's worth.

Ah, I'm not that familiar with SEGA games optimization. I think most early Mega Drive PAL games were just slowed down while later had their game speed and music adjusted.

Suprisingly there are more PAL optimized NES games than SNES games. Most of the NES games had atleast their music optimized, meaning that when played on NTSC hardware the gameplay is at normal speed but music too fast. But there are also completely unoptimized games like the first Castlevania. The actual PAL hardware was underclocked.
There are way more unoptimized SNES games, which in theory is a good thing since you are able to play them as intended with other hardware/modding. To my knowledge N64 games were often optimized, atleast the major games. And Rare being European helped aswell. With N64 its especially bad since framerates were often just about bearable to begin with.

In Europe it was a fairly common mod to install 50/60hz- and regioncode switches on SNES consoles.

Quote from: HuMan on 05/22/2017, 02:57 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/19/2017, 11:01 PMMy favorite is Panzer Dragoon Saga, which has three of its four CDs in paper envelopes banging around in the box because that giant ass case can't hold more than 1CD, despite being twice as big as a standard 4xCD audio CD case (which is what the JP version came in).

There are some 2 CD Saturn games that came with a special disc tray that slots in above the main tray, for what it's worth.

SegaCD games as well.  Fahrenheit, Double Switch, and Ground Zero Texas are good examples to look at.

Quote from: seieienbu on 05/21/2017, 06:44 PMSo, are CD longboxes and 3DO boxes the same?  I had a few 3DO boxes and eventually put them somewhere and now they're in a box in my parents' attic if they still exist at all.  Man, those things were terrible.

You might be right about that. I've sorta forgotten most of what I know about 3DO but I used work at a place that rented out 3DO and I so kinda remember what may have been RIAA style CD longboxes. IIRC packaging wasn't fully standardized for 3DO.

Since games were rarely sold at record stores back 1993 and record stores had ditched their 12" shelving by then it would have been a dumb thing to do but...it is 3DO we're talking about here...

3do game cases were not consistent at all. I have a bunch, all of the boxes are different.

Fuck yo mama, 3do has some good shit. It's better than a PCFX at any rate.

Quote from: GohanX on 05/23/2017, 08:42 PMFuck yo mama, 3do has some good shit. It's better than a PCFX at any rate.

That's like saying, "At least having my arm needlessly amputated is better than being disemboweled."

Well, that is true. But you could take your one arm, get a 3do flight stick and play an awesome version of Wing Commander III.

Quote from: GohanX on 05/23/2017, 08:42 PMFuck yo mama, 3do has some good shit. It's better than a PCFX at any rate.

That is the lowest praise possible for a system. I'm pretty sure it's true, but it isn't saying much.

Quote from: Mathius on 05/21/2017, 07:41 PMMost 3DO long boxes were their own thing. Kinda a mesh between "true" PS1 longboxes and early two-piece cardboard PC boxes. Other one-piece 3DO boxes resembled those of early music CD packaging and were far less durable. Both were way too tall.

I think there were something like 4-5 different styles. One FAQ-type document lists them as:

 1 = Snap Case boxes
 2 = Clam style boxes
 3 = Long Box w/ Jewel case and inserts
 4 = Long Box w/ JC or CB holders and 1 or NO inserts
 6 = Pull off top box style

5 = Jewel cases, BTW. Also, all of the 3DO longboxes I've seen -- regardless of type -- are substantially thicker than music CD longboxes were.

Also, I like my 3DO! -- but then again, I'm fond of early 3D gaming in general. (Not the N64 so much, though, since it gives me motion sickness/simulation sickness.)

^^ I love my 3DO. It was my introduction to 32-bit gaming. The first time I saw Crash and Burn at a local HH Gregg is something I'll never forget.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 05/23/2017, 10:06 PM

Quote from: GohanX on 05/23/2017, 08:42 PMFuck yo mama, 3do has some good shit. It's better than a PCFX at any rate.

That is the lowest praise possible for a system. I'm pretty sure it's true, but it isn't saying much.

Yes, as is any praise that begins with "fuck yo moma." Terms of endearment fo sho. =D>

Who cares if TG16 prices never come down? If the games are what matter, then stick with an Everdrive and a pack of CD-Rs. I had a TG16 back around 2010, this was before the Everdrive got made. There was no hope for a CD drive either, not with a TG16. The lack of affordable games made me sell the TG16.

Ever since going with a PC Engine Duo and the aforementioned Everdrive and CD-Rs, I can finally play some PCE games as intended. I also have a plain white PCE because it's badass.

Quote from: HuMan on 05/24/2017, 12:45 AMEver since going with a PC Engine Duo and the aforementioned Everdrive and CD-Rs, I can finally play some PCE games as intended. I also have a plain white PCE because it's badass.

But the CDRs wil reck UR system, bro! I no this Bcuz the internets told me!

I just bid 20 dollars on world court tennis hucard only and lost. no signs of price crash

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 05/25/2017, 09:52 PMI just bid 20 dollars on world court tennis hucard only and lost. no signs of price crash

final match is way better anyway.  get that for under $10.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 05/25/2017, 09:52 PMI just bid 20 dollars on world court tennis hucard only and lost. no signs of price crash

People are buying WCT on eBay for 1/4 - 1/3 of what Karl Marx wants to throw money away on, eight more people also paid less and a sealed copy ended with the highest bid at $6.

Although this means the crash is here, you can thank Karl for trying to to artificially inflate the market just to pwn us naysayers.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_nkw=world+court+tennis+turbografx&_sop=15


Also worth noting: there aren't any auctions for WCT in eBay's history which ended for more than $20. So Karl must be spelling the title wrong or talking out his ass (or gets his world perspective from spending all of his time only on here and Game Gavel).

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 05/25/2017, 09:52 PMI just bid 20 dollars on world court tennis hucard only and lost. no signs of price crash

Man, that's way too much for this game ! I got a complete copy (ie with storyfoam, cardboard box) for that price.

Quote from: CrackTiger on 05/25/2017, 10:41 PMAlso worth noting: there aren't any auctions for WCT in eBay's history which ended for more than $20. So Karl must be spelling the title wrong or talking out his ass (or gets his world perspective from spending all of his time only on here and Game Gavel).

Being a lying troll POS is his modus operandi.

When I bought my region modded Core Grafx from HKGameDoctor on ebay there was an almost CIB (missing sleeve for HuCard) copy of WCT in the box marked "Free Gift" with it when it arrived.

For PC-Engine its a 5-10 dollar game complete. And not a very good one at that. Unless the US Turbo prices have gone insane 20usd for a loose card is excessive. And its not that good game to begit with, propably the worst Tennis game on PC-Engine to be honest.

Yeah, I think I paid 50 yen for my copy.

50 yen. That's rich! =D>

Quote from: NecroPhile on 05/26/2017, 09:31 AM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 05/25/2017, 10:41 PMAlso worth noting: there aren't any auctions for WCT in eBay's history which ended for more than $20. So Karl must be spelling the title wrong or talking out his ass (or gets his world perspective from spending all of his time only on here and Game Gavel).

Being a lying troll POS is his modus operandi.

worst moderator. one of reasons this forum is dead. The fuck just harasses people. World Court has many listings ended at over 20 dollars. Go fuck yourself!!!!

i just don't see the prices going down, if some of the rumors about resellers destroying copies of games to raise prices and stuff turns out to be true, anyways.

Quote from: wiseau on 06/01/2017, 09:27 PMi just don't see the prices going down, if some of the rumors about resellers destroying copies of games to raise prices and stuff turns out to be true, anyways.

I've not heard of this. It'd be simpler and more profitable for them to just seal them away for a decade and slowly reintroduce them in a way that won't get detected.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 06/01/2017, 09:15 PM

Quote from: NecroPhile on 05/26/2017, 09:31 AM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 05/25/2017, 10:41 PMAlso worth noting: there aren't any auctions for WCT in eBay's history which ended for more than $20. So Karl must be spelling the title wrong or talking out his ass (or gets his world perspective from spending all of his time only on here and Game Gavel).

Being a lying troll POS is his modus operandi.

worst moderator. one of reasons this forum is dead. The fuck just harasses people. World Court has many listings ended at over 20 dollars. Go fuck yourself!!!!

On eBay? Links or STFU.

 
If BT's stalking/research is correct then you are a total fucking liar, and rather than confess or shut up you just defended your lie with another lie.

If he's wrong, prove it. If you just paid so much for this game, where is the link to the auction for the game you just bought?

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 06/01/2017, 09:15 PM

Quote from: NecroPhile on 05/26/2017, 09:31 AM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 05/25/2017, 10:41 PMAlso worth noting: there aren't any auctions for WCT in eBay's history which ended for more than $20. So Karl must be spelling the title wrong or talking out his ass (or gets his world perspective from spending all of his time only on here and Game Gavel).

Being a lying troll POS is his modus operandi.

worst moderator. one of reasons this forum is dead. The fuck just harasses people. World Court has many listings ended at over 20 dollars. Go fuck yourself!!!!

The only ones were Buy-It-Now.

If this link works for you as I was able to copy and paste it, it shows all SOLD auctions.


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&LH_Auction=1&_nkw=turbografx+world+court+tennis&_sop=15


A new auction has since been listed since my previous post, as you can see by the end date and did indeed get bid up to $21.50.

Unlike Karl's fantasy loose copy which "sold" for over $20, this one was New!/Sealed.

Quote from: Psycho Alt-Nintega on 06/01/2017, 09:15 PM

Quote from: NecroPhile on 05/26/2017, 09:31 AM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 05/25/2017, 10:41 PMAlso worth noting: there aren't any auctions for WCT in eBay's history which ended for more than $20. So Karl must be spelling the title wrong or talking out his ass (or gets his world perspective from spending all of his time only on here and Game Gavel).

Being a lying troll POS is his modus operandi.

worst moderator. one of reasons this forum is dead. The fuck just harasses people. World Court has many listings ended at over 20 dollars. Go fuck yourself!!!!

He's only the worst because he hasn't banned and doxxed you yet.

Quote from: wiseau on 06/01/2017, 09:27 PMi just don't see the prices going down, if some of the rumors about resellers destroying copies of games to raise prices and stuff turns out to be true, anyways.

Is there evidence for this? Most gaming examples I have heard of destroying merch was corporate directives, and a few examples in other hobbies. I can see tossing worthless crap like 90s baseball cards, but not valuable games.

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/02/2017, 04:02 AM

Quote from: wiseau on 06/01/2017, 09:27 PMi just don't see the prices going down, if some of the rumors about resellers destroying copies of games to raise prices and stuff turns out to be true, anyways.

Is there evidence for this? Most gaming examples I have heard of destroying merch was corporate directives, and a few examples in other hobbies. I can see tossing worthless crap like 90s baseball cards, but not valuable games.

never found any evidence, but the rumor was someone, possibly from NA, bought out as many copies as they could find of a common Gameboy game and destroyed them to increase the price, as a sort of experiment.

Quote from: wiseau on 06/02/2017, 05:26 AMnever found any evidence, but the rumor was someone, possibly from NA, bought out as many copies as they could find of a common Gameboy game and destroyed them to increase the price, as a sort of experiment.

It was Rampart for Gameboy. Uncommon but relatively cheap. Person in question bought every copy on eBay until the price exceeded $20, and no the games were not destroyed but released back into the market over time for a modest profit. Pat did a video regarding this cause and effect. Also some collectors or resellers occasionally hoard dozens or even hundreds of copies a specific game title for whatever reason, and this can wreak havok with game stores when such a hoarde gets traded in. I think Pat did another video on that. I personally knew a collector in Plano Tx who had 400 copies of Dragon Warrior I think. He even showed me the crates he stored them in. The Mario/Duck Hunt 2-in-1 hoarding caused it to go from a 10 cent game to being $10 because at one time this game was so cheap and common, people used them to make art projects like coffee tables and such.

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 06/01/2017, 10:30 PMHe's only the worst because he hasn't banned and doxxed you yet.

I'd love to ban the jackhole; and if it's a troll alt for someone else's normal account, them too.  That's the type of shit we don't need, but there's no rules against being liars, trolls, or otherwise useless pieces of trash, so I'd end up with Nulltard and other DoxPhilers crying that I'm a nazi or some such nonsense.

I'm not ban happy at all and generally favor almost totally unregulated forums. However, I'd ban him. He contributes nothing to the forum and lies right to our faces...antagonistically, out of the blue. Nobody asked for his made up facts, he just shoves them at us. If he lies about eBay like this, how can he be trusted to buy and sell here? He's demonstrably full of shit.

If it were a genuine idiological conflict I would never suggest banning, this guy is just a useless collectarded liar.

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/02/2017, 06:59 AM

Quote from: wiseau on 06/02/2017, 05:26 AMnever found any evidence, but the rumor was someone, possibly from NA, bought out as many copies as they could find of a common Gameboy game and destroyed them to increase the price, as a sort of experiment.

It was Rampart for Gameboy. Uncommon but relatively cheap. Person in question bought every copy on eBay until the price exceeded $20, and no the games were not destroyed but released back into the market over time for a modest profit. Pat did a video regarding this cause and effect. Also some collectors or resellers occasionally hoard dozens or even hundreds of copies a specific game title for whatever reason, and this can wreak havok with game stores when such a hoarde gets traded in. I think Pat did another video on that. I personally knew a collector in Plano Tx who had 400 copies of Dragon Warrior I think. He even showed me the crates he stored them in. The Mario/Duck Hunt 2-in-1 hoarding caused it to go from a 10 cent game to being $10 because at one time this game was so cheap and common, people used them to make art projects like coffee tables and such.

Huh, as a avid GB collector, I hadn't heard of this.  Usually a game is cheap because it's undesirable, all the best/popular games are always sold for more. (nothing against rampart) I just wonder if you bought a bunch of cheapo games, even if you hung on to them for several years, would people be interested in buying them any more then than they were originally?  Is it simply that it's considered more collectable after this point?  Assuming you are talking about the original gray cart, I just checked it out on ebay and it's selling for $55 and of course, labeled as 'rare'.

i dont think its an "alt" of a current member, and i doubt one of the 6 DoxPhilers.  they dont really have the animosity towards the forum that people assume.  with the way marx spews misguided venom towards this place and defends high prices, i would say its a previous banned member.  my money is on storino.  thats been my guess all along.

Quote from: johnnykonami on 06/02/2017, 10:55 AM

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/02/2017, 06:59 AM

Quote from: wiseau on 06/02/2017, 05:26 AMnever found any evidence, but the rumor was someone, possibly from NA, bought out as many copies as they could find of a common Gameboy game and destroyed them to increase the price, as a sort of experiment.

It was Rampart for Gameboy. Uncommon but relatively cheap. Person in question bought every copy on eBay until the price exceeded $20, and no the games were not destroyed but released back into the market over time for a modest profit. Pat did a video regarding this cause and effect. Also some collectors or resellers occasionally hoard dozens or even hundreds of copies a specific game title for whatever reason, and this can wreak havok with game stores when such a hoarde gets traded in. I think Pat did another video on that. I personally knew a collector in Plano Tx who had 400 copies of Dragon Warrior I think. He even showed me the crates he stored them in. The Mario/Duck Hunt 2-in-1 hoarding caused it to go from a 10 cent game to being $10 because at one time this game was so cheap and common, people used them to make art projects like coffee tables and such.

Huh, as a avid GB collector, I hadn't heard of this.  Usually a game is cheap because it's undesirable, all the best/popular games are always sold for more. (nothing against rampart) I just wonder if you bought a bunch of cheapo games, even if you hung on to them for several years, would people be interested in buying them any more then than they were originally?  Is it simply that it's considered more collectable after this point?  Assuming you are talking about the original gray cart, I just checked it out on ebay and it's selling for $55 and of course, labeled as 'rare'.

It depends if the system the game is on is popular amongst set collectors or not.  If common shitty game X becomes the sole game keeping seveal hundred set collectors from their last piece, common shitty game X will become uncommon hidden gem expensive game X.

Due to the huge size of the Gameboy library, I imagine the act of creating game scarcity and price manipulation is low.  If you were to try the same type of thing with TG16 or Virtual Boy or a smaller sized set, I am sure one person could make a game's price move.  All you would need to do is pick a game with less than 10 listings at most times and constantly win each copy posted.

Mario / Duck Hunt doesn't seem like a good example where this would be possible.

P.S. - Don't do this.

Quote from: johnnykonami on 06/02/2017, 10:55 AM

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/02/2017, 06:59 AM

Quote from: wiseau on 06/02/2017, 05:26 AMnever found any evidence, but the rumor was someone, possibly from NA, bought out as many copies as they could find of a common Gameboy game and destroyed them to increase the price, as a sort of experiment.

It was Rampart for Gameboy. Uncommon but relatively cheap. Person in question bought every copy on eBay until the price exceeded $20, and no the games were not destroyed but released back into the market over time for a modest profit. Pat did a video regarding this cause and effect. Also some collectors or resellers occasionally hoard dozens or even hundreds of copies a specific game title for whatever reason, and this can wreak havok with game stores when such a hoarde gets traded in. I think Pat did another video on that. I personally knew a collector in Plano Tx who had 400 copies of Dragon Warrior I think. He even showed me the crates he stored them in. The Mario/Duck Hunt 2-in-1 hoarding caused it to go from a 10 cent game to being $10 because at one time this game was so cheap and common, people used them to make art projects like coffee tables and such.

Huh, as a avid GB collector, I hadn't heard of this.  Usually a game is cheap because it's undesirable, all the best/popular games are always sold for more. (nothing against rampart) I just wonder if you bought a bunch of cheapo games, even if you hung on to them for several years, would people be interested in buying them any more then than they were originally?  Is it simply that it's considered more collectable after this point?  Assuming you are talking about the original gray cart, I just checked it out on ebay and it's selling for $55 and of course, labeled as 'rare'.

It's $55 now? Wow. Pat explained it better than I could have.

http://youtu.be/MKHk5U8tmfw

This was a calculated experiment by a collector attempting to corner the market and drive up the price of a specific title, and it worked.

Quote from: johnnykonami on 06/02/2017, 10:55 AM

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/02/2017, 06:59 AM

Quote from: wiseau on 06/02/2017, 05:26 AMnever found any evidence, but the rumor was someone, possibly from NA, bought out as many copies as they could find of a common Gameboy game and destroyed them to increase the price, as a sort of experiment.

It was Rampart for Gameboy. Uncommon but relatively cheap. Person in question bought every copy on eBay until the price exceeded $20, and no the games were not destroyed but released back into the market over time for a modest profit. Pat did a video regarding this cause and effect. Also some collectors or resellers occasionally hoard dozens or even hundreds of copies a specific game title for whatever reason, and this can wreak havok with game stores when such a hoarde gets traded in. I think Pat did another video on that. I personally knew a collector in Plano Tx who had 400 copies of Dragon Warrior I think. He even showed me the crates he stored them in. The Mario/Duck Hunt 2-in-1 hoarding caused it to go from a 10 cent game to being $10 because at one time this game was so cheap and common, people used them to make art projects like coffee tables and such.

Huh, as a avid GB collector, I hadn't heard of this.  Usually a game is cheap because it's undesirable, all the best/popular games are always sold for more. (nothing against rampart) I just wonder if you bought a bunch of cheapo games, even if you hung on to them for several years, would people be interested in buying them any more then than they were originally?  Is it simply that it's considered more collectable after this point?  Assuming you are talking about the original gray cart, I just checked it out on ebay and it's selling for $55 and of course, labeled as 'rare'.

If you're talking about the original gray cart of Rampart, available BINs are much less than that and the only copies anyone has bothered to actually buy were a BIN for $15 and an auction which only received a single bid of $8.

I listened to that story about the black and white Gameboy version of Rampart.  Yes, the price seems to have gone down now, but it doesn't change the fact that one single seller was able to single handedly increase the price on the ebay market.  Ebay being ebay, prices don't exactly revert to the same rate that it was before this guy's experiment very quickly.  It seems like as soon as a price reaches a new ceiling, every seller assumes that new high price is the actual price point.  One idiot buys something at a high price and afterward nobody well sell for less.

Even as the ebay price falls, there are still long standing ramifications to this in other locations.  Recently I saw a copy in a retro game store with a price tag of $35.  That game at that price is absolutely ridiculous.  No, I don't think that it will Ever sell for that much but at the very least I feel this is strong (albeit nonscientific and a bit anecdotal) evidence that one profiteering jerk can create an artificial scarcity on his own to influence the market for monopolistic price fixing purposes which would never be legal on a large scale.

Quote from: seieienbu on 06/04/2017, 07:27 PMEven as the ebay price falls, there are still long standing ramifications to this in other locations.  Recently I saw a copy in a retro game store with a price tag of $35.  That game at that price is absolutely ridiculous.  No, I don't think that it will Ever sell for that much but at the very least I feel this is strong (albeit nonscientific and a bit anecdotal) evidence that one profiteering jerk can create an artificial scarcity on his own to influence the market for monopolistic price fixing purposes which would never be legal on a large scale.

How would that be illegal? Free market capitalism, bidges! :-({|=

There are laws against price fixing, monopolies and variations of market manipulation, but they are rarely enforced.

On a large scale, the manipulation of commodities, price fixing, etc can get you decades in prison. On the small scale there is no penalty. Morally there is no difference.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 06/04/2017, 11:48 PMOn a large scale, the manipulation of commodities, price fixing, etc can get you decades in prison. On the small scale there is no penalty. Morally there is no difference.

Considering one obscure game was selected as an experiment and intent was not to tarnish the entire market, I don't think there was ill intent here.

I'm not saying the guy belongs in jail or anything, but "ill intent" seems exactly what he was going for, although mostly for curiosity's sake, not for any real gain.

FWIW, plenty of people have gone to jail for price fixing who never intended to "ruin the entire market". I'm pretty sure most would fall into that catagory. They usually don't want to ruin anything, or even do anything detectable, they just want to make a mint off of whatever they can manipulate.

Scale is everything.

I don't want to ruin my long-term investment plans, but I have been purchasing every copy of Keith Courage for the past decade. I even won a KC In the raffles here at pcefx.

THE FEW TIMES I lost a raffle, I would PM the winner and offer top dollar to purchase it.

Once I acquire the remaining copies of KC and I am golden.

Quote from: TheClash603 on 06/02/2017, 06:52 PMIt depends if the system the game is on is popular amongst set collectors or not.  If common shitty game X becomes the sole game keeping seveal hundred set collectors from their last piece, common shitty game X will become uncommon hidden gem expensive game X.

Due to the huge size of the Gameboy library, I imagine the act of creating game scarcity and price manipulation is low.  If you were to try the same type of thing with TG16 or Virtual Boy or a smaller sized set, I am sure one person could make a game's price move.  All you would need to do is pick a game with less than 10 listings at most times and constantly win each copy posted.

Mario / Duck Hunt doesn't seem like a good example where this would be possible.

P.S. - Don't do this.

No worries, too much effort anyway!  I was just saying to my friend that even if I had stashed a couple Earthbounds or Panzer Dragoon Saga's and made 2-300 each, that's still a pretty dinky profit over a 10/15 year period.  It's nothing to scoff at, of course, but you'd made more money at a minimum wage job than sitting on and reselling hard to find games.

Quote from: guest on 06/02/2017, 07:09 PMIf you're talking about the original gray cart of Rampart, available BINs are much less than that and the only copies anyone has bothered to actually buy were a BIN for $15 and an auction which only received a single bid of $8.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that was the average price, just that particular auction must have been affected by the above mentioned experiment.  I'd never pay more than a dollar or two for that particular game myself.

Quote from: johnnykonami on 06/05/2017, 10:36 AM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 06/02/2017, 06:52 PMIt depends if the system the game is on is popular amongst set collectors or not.  If common shitty game X becomes the sole game keeping seveal hundred set collectors from their last piece, common shitty game X will become uncommon hidden gem expensive game X.

Due to the huge size of the Gameboy library, I imagine the act of creating game scarcity and price manipulation is low.  If you were to try the same type of thing with TG16 or Virtual Boy or a smaller sized set, I am sure one person could make a game's price move.  All you would need to do is pick a game with less than 10 listings at most times and constantly win each copy posted.

Mario / Duck Hunt doesn't seem like a good example where this would be possible.

P.S. - Don't do this.

No worries, too much effort anyway!  I was just saying to my friend that even if I had stashed a couple Earthbounds or Panzer Dragoon Saga's and made 2-300 each, that's still a pretty dinky profit over a 10/15 year period.  It's nothing to scoff at, of course, but you'd made more money at a minimum wage job than sitting on and reselling hard to find games.

Quote from: guest on 06/02/2017, 07:09 PMIf you're talking about the original gray cart of Rampart, available BINs are much less than that and the only copies anyone has bothered to actually buy were a BIN for $15 and an auction which only received a single bid of $8.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that was the average price, just that particular auction must have been affected by the above mentioned experiment.  I'd never pay more than a dollar or two for that particular game myself.

Earthbound is a terrible example. It has an R4 rarity and sells for R7 prices. Goto nintendoage.com, find an R6 or R7 with low "loose" price on pricecharting, and use that for your market manipulation. Don't even bother with stuff that plateaued years ago...

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/05/2017, 10:18 PM

Quote from: johnnykonami on 06/05/2017, 10:36 AM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 06/02/2017, 06:52 PMIt depends if the system the game is on is popular amongst set collectors or not.  If common shitty game X becomes the sole game keeping seveal hundred set collectors from their last piece, common shitty game X will become uncommon hidden gem expensive game X.

Due to the huge size of the Gameboy library, I imagine the act of creating game scarcity and price manipulation is low.  If you were to try the same type of thing with TG16 or Virtual Boy or a smaller sized set, I am sure one person could make a game's price move.  All you would need to do is pick a game with less than 10 listings at most times and constantly win each copy posted.

Mario / Duck Hunt doesn't seem like a good example where this would be possible.

P.S. - Don't do this.

No worries, too much effort anyway!  I was just saying to my friend that even if I had stashed a couple Earthbounds or Panzer Dragoon Saga's and made 2-300 each, that's still a pretty dinky profit over a 10/15 year period.  It's nothing to scoff at, of course, but you'd made more money at a minimum wage job than sitting on and reselling hard to find games.

Quote from: guest on 06/02/2017, 07:09 PMIf you're talking about the original gray cart of Rampart, available BINs are much less than that and the only copies anyone has bothered to actually buy were a BIN for $15 and an auction which only received a single bid of $8.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that was the average price, just that particular auction must have been affected by the above mentioned experiment.  I'd never pay more than a dollar or two for that particular game myself.

Earthbound is a terrible example. It has an R4 rarity and sells for R7 prices. Goto nintendoage.com, find an R6 or R7 with low "loose" price on pricecharting, and use that for your market manipulation. Don't even bother with stuff that plateaued years ago...

L  O  fucking L

Quote from: gynt on 06/05/2017, 10:19 PM

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/05/2017, 10:18 PM

Quote from: johnnykonami on 06/05/2017, 10:36 AM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 06/02/2017, 06:52 PMIt depends if the system the game is on is popular amongst set collectors or not.  If common shitty game X becomes the sole game keeping seveal hundred set collectors from their last piece, common shitty game X will become uncommon hidden gem expensive game X.

Due to the huge size of the Gameboy library, I imagine the act of creating game scarcity and price manipulation is low.  If you were to try the same type of thing with TG16 or Virtual Boy or a smaller sized set, I am sure one person could make a game's price move.  All you would need to do is pick a game with less than 10 listings at most times and constantly win each copy posted.

Mario / Duck Hunt doesn't seem like a good example where this would be possible.

P.S. - Don't do this.

No worries, too much effort anyway!  I was just saying to my friend that even if I had stashed a couple Earthbounds or Panzer Dragoon Saga's and made 2-300 each, that's still a pretty dinky profit over a 10/15 year period.  It's nothing to scoff at, of course, but you'd made more money at a minimum wage job than sitting on and reselling hard to find games.

Quote from: guest on 06/02/2017, 07:09 PMIf you're talking about the original gray cart of Rampart, available BINs are much less than that and the only copies anyone has bothered to actually buy were a BIN for $15 and an auction which only received a single bid of $8.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that was the average price, just that particular auction must have been affected by the above mentioned experiment.  I'd never pay more than a dollar or two for that particular game myself.

Earthbound is a terrible example. It has an R4 rarity and sells for R7 prices. Goto nintendoage.com, find an R6 or R7 with low "loose" price on pricecharting, and use that for your market manipulation. Don't even bother with stuff that plateaued years ago...

L  O  fucking L

Look at the historic prices of Earthbound and compare it to other games that sell at equal prices today. Most of them were far, far cheaper in 2008 than they are now. Earthbound hasn't inflated much at all by comparison. Just find a cheap uncommon title that hasn't spiked yet and corner the market on it.

Turbo games are a bad idea since they are in general far less common than NES, SNES, Genesis titles, so most games have already spiked. PCE games may be a good market to corner as more American gamers jump onto the import bandwagon.

Good market to corner

Quote from: Gredler on 06/06/2017, 01:07 AMGood market to corner

Unlike Southpark's underpants gnomes, this 5 step plan does not contain ??? marks. In fact, it would be a bit like playing the stock market. Buy enough of a specific stock and price inflates, then sell it back, aka "pump and dump." Same principal with game commodities.

#1: Search on eBay and buy up all existing copies of a specific cheap PCe game that sells top dollar for the Turbo equivalent.
#2: Watch as prices skyrocket.
#3: Slowly release PCe games back into the market.
#4: Profit.
#5: Pick another game and return to step #1.
 :-"

I just pulled Earthbound out of my hat, I'm not gonna become an ebay price gouger so I haven't done any research on maximum profitability or anything.

Quote from: johnnykonami on 06/06/2017, 10:28 AMI just pulled Earthbound out of my hat, I'm not gonna become an ebay price gouger so I haven't done any research on maximum profitability or anything.

Shit - I was going to do a dissertation on Earthbound profitability through the year 2025...  Oh well...

B.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

Quote from: Lost Monkey on 06/06/2017, 10:40 AM

Quote from: johnnykonami on 06/06/2017, 10:28 AMI just pulled Earthbound out of my hat, I'm not gonna become an ebay price gouger so I haven't done any research on maximum profitability or anything.

Shit - I was going to do a dissertation on Earthbound profitability through the year 2025...  Oh well...

Sounds like I saved you some time and effort!

Quote from: guest on 06/06/2017, 11:07 AMB.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

the "R4/R7/etc" crap is what i was laughing at.

Quote from: gynt on 06/06/2017, 11:37 AM

Quote from: guest on 06/06/2017, 11:07 AMB.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

the "R4/R7/etc" crap is what i was laughing at.

Just completely fucking stupid tbh. And NA wonders why they are disliked.

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/02/2017, 06:59 AM

Quote from: wiseau on 06/02/2017, 05:26 AMnever found any evidence, but the rumor was someone, possibly from NA, bought out as many copies as they could find of a common Gameboy game and destroyed them to increase the price, as a sort of experiment.

It was Rampart for Gameboy. Uncommon but relatively cheap. Person in question bought every copy on eBay until the price exceeded $20, and no the games were not destroyed but released back into the market over time for a modest profit. Pat did a video regarding this cause and effect.

Actually, the email to Pat said he planned to release them back into the market for cheap to bring the price back down, but no one seller has done that over the past year. Also, its important to note, the game is back down to $8-10. So, if he spent $5-7 shipped on each copy, by the time he pays fees and shipping (usually 25-30%), he'll just about break even. Its not like he made anything (yet) on this, other than an interesting market experiment. Also, the fact that price dropped back down shows that you really can't really force prices high in the long term, just by attempting manipulation.

Quote from: Nulltard on 06/06/2017, 12:36 PMR7 or gtfo

(https://www.genkivideogames.com/images/hit1000front.jpg)

Quote from: guest on 06/06/2017, 11:07 AMB.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

You know, what if the incineration part wasn't true, and next year someone stumbled upon a pallet of them inside some forgotten warehouse? :dance:

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/07/2017, 02:15 AM

Quote from: guest on 06/06/2017, 11:07 AMB.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

You know, what if the incineration part wasn't true, and next year someone stumbled upon a pallet of them inside some forgotten warehouse? :dance:

Back when TTi was dissolved, I personally shredded hundreds of copies of Magical Chase, Hero Tonma, Air Zonk and, sadly Hatris (a North American version was ready to ship).

I wish I had grabbed a few, but I didn't want to lose my job.

Fwiw Magical Chase was on the Donsal order forms and in stock for quite a while.  I am sure that is why so many copies have shown up for sale from Canada. I found mine in a junk store in Windsor, Ontario circa 1997.

Quote from: esteban on 06/07/2017, 07:02 AM

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/07/2017, 02:15 AM

Quote from: guest on 06/06/2017, 11:07 AMB.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

You know, what if the incineration part wasn't true, and next year someone stumbled upon a pallet of them inside some forgotten warehouse? :dance:

Back when TTi was dissolved, I personally shredded hundreds of copies of Magical Chase, Hero Tonma, Air Zonk and, sadly Hatris (a North American version was ready to ship).

I wish I had grabbed a few, but I didn't want to lose my job.

You've been reported to Simon Wiesenthal.

Quote from: guest on 06/06/2017, 04:27 PMActually, the email to Pat said he planned to release them back into the market for cheap to bring the price back down, but no one seller has done that over the past year. Also, its important to note, the game is back down to $8-10. So, if he spent $5-7 shipped on each copy, by the time he pays fees and shipping (usually 25-30%), he'll just about break even. Its not like he made anything (yet) on this, other than an interesting market experiment. Also, the fact that price dropped back down shows that you really can't really force prices high in the long term, just by attempting manipulation.

At this point it really seems there's too small of a sample size to determine anything via the sold auctions on ebay.  That being said, if you cherry pick the lowest single value then yeah, you might be able to make that claim.  As it is, I think that's disingenuous at best.  There are 4 GB Rampart sales in recent history.  The most recent one went for $8, yes, but the other 3 went for $15.

This guy brought the price up on a game single handed.  The price has not dropped back down to the $4 he was buying the games at originally.  Maybe they're not currently at the all time high price but they certainly didn't ever drop back down to the starting price.  The important thing to note here is that one person can affect prices over years. 

I say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

Quote from: seieienbu on 06/07/2017, 03:10 PM

Quote from: guest on 06/06/2017, 04:27 PMActually, the email to Pat said he planned to release them back into the market for cheap to bring the price back down, but no one seller has done that over the past year. Also, its important to note, the game is back down to $8-10. So, if he spent $5-7 shipped on each copy, by the time he pays fees and shipping (usually 25-30%), he'll just about break even. Its not like he made anything (yet) on this, other than an interesting market experiment. Also, the fact that price dropped back down shows that you really can't really force prices high in the long term, just by attempting manipulation.

At this point it really seems there's too small of a sample size to determine anything via the sold auctions on ebay.  That being said, if you cherry pick the lowest single value then yeah, you might be able to make that claim.  As it is, I think that's disingenuous at best.  There are 4 GB Rampart sales in recent history.  The most recent one went for $8, yes, but the other 3 went for $15.

This guy brought the price up on a game single handed.  The price has not dropped back down to the $4 he was buying the games at originally.  Maybe they're not currently at the all time high price but they certainly didn't ever drop back down to the starting price.  The important thing to note here is that one person can affect prices over years. 

I say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

You would also have to factor in any "overall" upward trend of GB prices that the GB market had been experiencing, as a general trend.

Quote from: esteban on 06/07/2017, 03:27 PMYou would also have to factor in any "overall" upward trend of GB prices that the GB market had been experiencing, as a general trend.

This is true, but by the low end a price doubling is a rather steep increase percentage-wise to begin with.  Quadrupling or (at the peak) going up 8-fold though?  That wasn't going to happen on its own instantly.

rampart is fun

Quote from: seieienbu on 06/07/2017, 03:10 PMI say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

I think the larger cause is the "gotta have it" mindset in conjunction with the market rising.  People see something and want to buy/play it instantly so they get the first decent looking BIN they see which seems to raise the price (because it seems like BIN prices are what are always going up and raising the "cost" of an item). 

I'll admit I'm guilty of finding something and jumping on it quickly so that don't have to worry about getting it later on down the line if/when the price goes up on it.  But of course at the same time I'll sit on watches for years waiting for something to show up at auction just to save a couple bucks.

Quote from: gynt on 06/07/2017, 04:04 PMrampart is fun

Poor Rampart, everyone now remembers it best by that game nintentards used as a economy science project

Esty, I didn't know you worked for TTI!  :shock:

Quote from: seieienbu on 06/07/2017, 03:10 PMI say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

I don't think we disagree with each other all that much. Also, even if he started buying at $4, the price surely went up as he was trying to manipulate it. Even so, lets take the one completed BIN on eBay, and assume he was able to get every one of his 20 copies at $5 shipped, and sells every single copy at 15 free shipping (to match the sold listing). $10x20 = $200... but...

It costs a minimum of $2.61 to ship a game today, USPS. The envelope costs $0.10. He's paying $1.50 in eBay fees (assuming he isn't a power seller). Paypal fees are 2.9%, or $0.44, + $0.30 per transaction, so all his costs add up to $4.95 a sale, or $99 total. His 'experiment' netted him a whole whopping $101. For a years work.

My point is, it doesn't make sense to buy games at market value today, as an investment in their worth tomorrow. I highly doubt anyone is doing that on a massive scale.

THAT SAID...

I do think prices can be arbitrarily held high by the plenty of people that are in for the flip. I'm guilty of this, and yet, so is price-whiner gynt. Either refreshing eBay constantly to get that sweet too-low priced BIN, for the flip, or going to retro video game stores/conventions, finding things that are 'under current market value' and buying them for the flip. You might already have the game, but there is money to be made between the price its being sold for, and the price you can sell it for. Maybe you already own that game, or maybe you don't even want it, you just want money. The problem is, that removes it from the market, and forces a buyer who actual wants to keep it to pay your higher price. I think this is the only common form of profiteering in this hobby. It does prop up prices to a degree, but that isn't manipulation, its just how markets work.

Whenever I go to GameXChange I look at the shelves and it's nothing but sports and throwaways, then a modest selection of good games under the glass with premium price tags.

Then every time I turn around, I see some asshat reseller with his smart phone comparing ebay prices to the shelf sitters, then walk up to the counter with a stack of games to buy. They generally don't even bother looking under the glass because those are already sold at premium.

At least I know who to blame as to why there's no local deals on hidden gems anymore. Nevermind the fact that the employees don't even know what Turbografx is and can't accept trade ins if it's not in the system. #-o

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/07/2017, 10:47 PMWhenever I go to GameXChange I look at the shelves and it's nothing but sports and throwaways, then a modest selection of good games under the glass with premium price tags.

Then every time I turn around, I see some asshat reseller with his smart phone comparing ebay prices to the shelf sitters, then walk up to the counter with a stack of games to buy. They generally don't even bother looking under the glass because those are already sold at premium.

At least I know who to blame as to why there's no local deals on hidden gems anymore. Nevermind the fact that the employees don't even know what Turbografx is and can't accept trade ins if it's not in the system. #-o

This is pretty much why I quit going to my local game shops.

I kinda hope that all these newer consoles that can emulate roms of old games (Polymega, Game Freak, Retron 5) will finally let people play the games they grew up with and not need to spend a fortune and bring the price down, but then I remember folks like PCE Works and I'm not so sure...

Quote from: guest on 06/08/2017, 12:06 AMI kinda hope that all these newer consoles that can emulate roms of old games (Polymega, Game Freak, Retron 5) will finally let people play the games they grew up with and not need to spend a fortune and bring the price down, but then I remember folks like PCE Works and I'm not so sure...

Last I checked, there was no massive price drop on Turbografx games after the Turbo Everdrive was released. Instead they shot up like a rocket.

Perhaps Turbochip price inflation fueled Everdrive sales, but the Everdrive did nothing to slow the trend. Nor did the recent Turbokon reprods. People who just want to play the games, ie Magical Chase, now have other option besides scoring an original game card, yet collectors continue to price themselves out of the market with no end in sight.

Surely noone takes a second mortgage on their home to own their personal holy grail???

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/08/2017, 03:02 AMSurely noone takes a second mortgage on their home to own their personal holy grail???

The people who do that kind of crap are the same ones posting it up for sale 3 weeks later, saying that they need to sell some stuff because of bills.  Honestly, the inability of some people to separate needs and wants and plan for the future constantly infuriates me and makes really wish there was some sort of basic real life finance classes (not just general Economics) required for high schoolers. 

Please. These shitheads don't have mortgages.

I honestly dont get why people buy holy grails or super pricy games only to sell later at a higher price? Either theyre trying to make a quick buck or theyre a piece of shit.

I think theyre a piece of shit.

They are so deaf and dumb to what games actually are they they get all their thrills just from buying one. The more expensive, the more of a thrill. Once they have it...it's basically useless, so they do the only other thing they can that is fun, selling it.

This phenomenon exists in many many many forms of collecting. It's new to gaming because gaming is cheap and new, but it's very common with art or Ferraris.

Quote from: Mathius on 06/07/2017, 06:49 PMEsty, I didn't know you worked for TTI!  :shock:

I never did.

Not in reality, that is.

:)

Quote from: esteban on 06/08/2017, 05:36 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 06/07/2017, 06:49 PMEsty, I didn't know you worked for TTI!  :shock:

I never did.

Not in reality, that is.

:)

If that was a joke then it flew right over my head  :lol:

whooooosh

Quote from: Mathius on 06/08/2017, 08:00 PM

Quote from: esteban on 06/08/2017, 05:36 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 06/07/2017, 06:49 PMEsty, I didn't know you worked for TTI!  :shock:

I never did.

Not in reality, that is.

:)

If that was a joke then it flew right over my head  :lol:

whooooosh

Perhaps he was under NDA and does not want to self-incriminate? Then again, if the company is disbanded, past NDA contracts are probably null and meaningless. Look at all these colorful stories from interviews with past Atari execs.

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/02/2017, 04:02 AM

Quote from: wiseau on 06/01/2017, 09:27 PMi just don't see the prices going down, if some of the rumors about resellers destroying copies of games to raise prices and stuff turns out to be true, anyways.

Is there evidence for this? Most gaming examples I have heard of destroying merch was corporate directives, and a few examples in other hobbies. I can see tossing worthless crap like 90s baseball cards, but not valuable games.

Some stores threw out neo geo aes games because barely anyone could afford them

Quote from: guest on 06/09/2017, 08:39 AMSome stores threw out neo geo aes games because barely anyone could afford them

I never understood the corporate climate of destroy merch rather than clearance it. Donate if you must. Is it for tax incentives? Closeout/clearance sales net you more profit than outright destruction of goods, which AFAIK is zero.

I mean look at Walmart and Best Buy have bargain DVD bins. Then stores like Big Lots sell closeout merch from other stores for cheap. Department stores clearance seasonal merch. I've bought $60 shirts for $3 in March because they were long sleeved. Sat in the closet for six months but I got good usage of those clothes.

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/09/2017, 12:49 PMI never understood the corporate climate of destroy merch rather than clearance it. Donate if you must. Is it for tax incentives? Closeout/clearance sales net you more profit than outright destruction of goods, which AFAIK is zero.

I mean look at Walmart and Best Buy have bargain DVD bins. Then stores like Big Lots sell closeout merch from other stores for cheap. Department stores clearance seasonal merch. I've bought $60 shirts for $3 in March because they were long sleeved. Sat in the closet for six months but I got good usage of those clothes.

At a certain point cheap goods can bring back less than the value of the work required to fill the order. At least, that's how it is in mail order for some things. Somebody has to pick, pack, and ship those clearance items. Costs money!

In the book industry, eventually stuff just gets pulped.

Merchandise is also destroyed to prevent fraudulent returns.

Quote from: StarDust4Ever on 06/09/2017, 12:49 PMI never understood the corporate climate of destroy merch rather than clearance it. Donate if you must. Is it for tax incentives? Closeout/clearance sales net you more profit than outright destruction of goods, which AFAIK is zero.

Except, you still have to wait for clearance items to sell. So long as your inventory is greater than zero, you can't write off that inventory as a loss. So, even if you mark things down to $1, and they don't sell, you can't claim the loss yet, even if the cost of production was $10. If you want to have your business not pay taxes when realistically, it shouldn't, you need to rid yourself of that inventory. Sometimes, they do that by selling at extreme discounts to places like Big Lots. If that doesn't work, your only legal option is to physical destroy it. It isn't so much corporate culture as it is just tax law.