TG-CD won't start when cold, + sound randomly drops out.

[retromangia]

Hey guys.

Retro here again with another TG-CD situation.  If i leave it sitting on my floor turned off for over an hour, it won't play any games. However, If i then leave it on for 15 minutes under a towel to warm up... The next time i turn it on it usually works. what do you think might be causing that issue?

another thing is that after I'm playing for 2-3 hours... the CD Audio will start to randomly drop out at any time.. The sound effects still work though. Also the load times start to become ridiculously long.

I must be honest and admit I'm using CD-R games. 

Please tell me there's an easy solution to all this.. I have a feeling its.. Gulp, bad caps! duh duh duh! 

so what do you think guys?

-Retromangia

[nat]

Well, there are different kinds of CD audio "drop outs." One is where the music track currently playing just stops. This isn't a cap issue, this is because the laser loses track of where it was and just stops playing. If you reach a point in the game where new music track is supposed to play (such as the next level, a boss fight, etc), the player will spin up again and try to play the new song. Usually this means the CD audio returns at this point. Causes for this:

a) Lasers get old and in turn, get weak.
b) You are using a media with a lower reflectivity, such as (gasp) CD-Rs.
c) You bump the system or the system is exposed to some kind of shock while playing.

So in your case it may be a combination of both A and B and possibly even C.

The other kind of drop out is in fact caused by capacitors, and in that situation all CD audio will stop but the player itself is technically still playing the music. Reaching a new level with new music won't cause the CD audio to resume, but with the cap issue, sometimes the audio will come and go randomly.

We need to determine which kind of drop outs you are experiencing.

[retromangia]

Nat you are the man


well good news is i think you hit it right on the head.  The audio does indeed return when a new scene loads, a boss fight comes up etc.  I wish i had an original CD game to test it.  is there a way to tweak the laser?

[nat]

Sure is.

Open up the CD drive (as you should be proficient at by now, heh heh) and look on the side of the laser assembly. There is potentiometer with a mini-philips head. Tweak it very slightly one way or the other. And I mean VERY slightly. Reassemble, test. It's pretty much a trial and error process. Repeat until you find an optimal setting. Tweaking too far can cause serious issues, up to and including the laser dying altogether (I learned this the hard way).

[COUNT SMRIFNACK]

Out of curiousity Nat, what is considered too far?  1/2 turn, 1 full turn?

[nat]

It's tough to say what the "breaking point" might be, as it undoubtedly depends on your laser's current condition and the current position of the pot.

It's best just to turn in small 1/8th or 1/16th turn increments.

[retromangia]

ok awesome thanks for the help!

I didn't have time to work on it last night, but will tinker with it today..  I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks again,

Retromangia

[papa_november]

    I have this problem too. It only happens on burned CDs, and it seems that no amount of lazer tweaking will make it go away. The problem is worse (i.e. happens sooner) with tracks that are towards the outer edge of the CD.

[nat]

If you can't find the "sweet spot" of the pot on the laser itself, there are four (five?) pots on the logic board that can be used to fine-tune the laser beyond the capability of the simple gain control on the optical unit.

It's a time consuming process but necessary in extreme cases.

BTW, CD-Rs fuck with your laser. That's half the problem right there. The audio cutting out is a symptom of the laser mis-seeking while tracking. The problem always starts with the outer tracks.

The simple solution to all this: don't use CD-Rs.

[papa_november]

    Not possible. Original games are decades out of print and can cost hundreds of dollars. Either I get burned games working with this thing or it's a useless pile of malfunctioning plastic.

    What's really puzzling and infuriating is that the audio tracks play back perfectly when I play them back in CD player mode.

    Are there any special kinds of CD-Rs that might work better? Which of the pots on the CD drive motherboard should I try to adjust? Would it be a better idea to just replace the laser altogether?

[nat]

Not possible. Original games are decades out of print and can cost hundreds of dollars. Either I get burned games working with this thing or it's a useless pile of malfunctioning plastic.

That's a pretty sour attitude to have, and pretty much nonsense. I can count on one hand the number of CD games [worth picking up] that will cost you over $100. The majority of the games for the system can be had for $20, sometimes less. If the price of the games scare you off, maybe the Turbo isn't for you. 

What's really puzzling and infuriating is that the audio tracks play back perfectly when I play them back in CD player mode.

Coincidence.

Are there any special kinds of CD-Rs that might work better?

There is a brand of CD-R, Diamond Silver, which is your best bet if you just must use CD-Rs on the system. This is not to say using these will eliminate the problem completely, but they will reduce issues.

http://www.caloptic.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi?product=DCDR80&detail=yes

Which of the pots on the CD drive motherboard should I try to adjust?

All of them. It's a very involved process. You need to tune each one, one at a time, until you achieve optimum performance.

Would it be a better idea to just replace the laser altogether?

If you're still using CD-Rs after replacing the laser, the problem will continue. Considering an actual "brand new" (not new/used) laser for the TG-CD costs $60-$100, it seems the sensible solution would be to just stop using CD-Rs.

You need to remember these optical units were designed and created years before CD-Rs existed and they are not built to cope with the difference in reflectivity present in CD-R media.

[PCEngineHell]

Not possible. Original games are decades out of print and can cost hundreds of dollars. Either I get burned games working with this thing or it's a useless pile of malfunctioning plastic.

[guyjin]

Maybe someone here will buy your pile of malfunctioning plastic.

[Sinistron]

Not possible. Original games are decades out of print and can cost hundreds of dollars. Either I get burned games working with this thing or it's a useless pile of malfunctioning plastic.

Seriously.  I have over 200 games and I can only think of 3 of them that were 100$ or more- and one of those three (Steam Hearts) wasn't worth getting.  Even some of the more expensive TG cds like Dynastic Hero- their PCE counterparts are usually much cheaper (PCE Dynastic Hero goes for like 20 on Ebay).  If you're only gonna use cdrs- which will give your system a short life- why even bother?  A waste.  You'd be better off with magic engine.

[NecroPhile]

Not possible. Original games are decades out of print and can cost hundreds of dollars. Either I get burned games working with this thing or it's a useless pile of malfunctioning plastic.

Pssst..... I'll let you in on a secret if you promise to keep it under your hat: your pile of plastic isn't malfunctioning, as it was never intended to read CDRs.   If you're adamant about using CDRs exclusively, then I suggest you try Mednafen (the cost of M.E. might be out of your price range). 

[papa_november]

     Well, I tried swapping in a different laser from a busted Discman (it looked to have died from leaking batteries, so I assumed the laser was OK), and that only made things worse. The drive won't even turn on now-no LED, no laser movement, no spin-up, no nothing.

     Looks like I'll have to put the old laser back in. Hopefully I haven't messed it up completely.

[2X4]

I may be stating the obvious, but check that you didn't break the ground solder.  I did that when I took mine apart one too many times.

[nat]

It sounds more like you put the ribbon cables in backwards (or at least one of them). I've done that before-- they will only work one way. One of them has to have the pins facing out, the other has to have the pins facing in. I don't remember which is which but I will check when I get home.

[awack]

I agree, it sounds like it might be one of the ribbon cables, if the large ribbon cable isn't connected correctly it will power up but the CD will not spin, if its the small ribbon cable then it will not power up at all, nat is right, one of them faces in and the other faces out, i think the large one faces out and the small one faces in, I'm not really sure though. also look for any small cuts in the ribbon.

[papa_november]

    I tried it again. For a while it would power on and even spin up, but it would simply refuse to read anything. I tried adjusting the laser potentiometer a few times, but it's stopped working again.

[nat]

If you're feeling bold you can adjust the pots on the side of the CD-ROM logic board itself, which fine tune the sensitivity, focus, etc. I find I need to do this with just about all new lasers I install in these things. Beware though, it's a trial and error process, and it takes a while.

[PCEngineHell]

Worse comes to worse,nab one more discman and try again to be sure if you cant get the current laser going.

[papa_november]

    I just put the original laser back in. It's still dead. I think I must've fried something somehow.

    These CD drives are the worst. They have pointless, redundant grounding wires going everywhere and anywhere, are criminally fragile, and feel like they were built by the Keebler Elves. Even the cheapo late-80s Discmen they're supposedly based off of are much better constructed in comparison.

    That said, what would a (working) replacement drive cost?