Graphics: Turbo vs. Genesis - ye old debate

[Keranu]

You can fight him as a human? I never knew that 

Neither did I! Now I'm gonna have to try playing through the game like that! 

I actually like the game. The graphics are nice and crisp and the songs sound nice on the Turbo's sound chip.

Yeah same here. When I first got into the PCE, Altered Beast was one of the first games I played and I thought the graphics looked really polished compared to the Genesis version from memory. I also dug the music in the PCE version, but what really hurt the PCE version is the lack of voices! That's one of the main reasons why I play the game in the first place!

[TurboXray]

The CD version has the voices though.  CD version is a strange port. The changed some of tiles, but they don't look any better and some look worse. I never realized before, but the PCE CD version has better (sprite) gfx than I thought. At first glance you wouldn't think so.

some comparison pics. PCE has green BG, and MD has blue BG.

pcedev .net/altered_beast/PCE_first_level_set.png
pcedev .net/altered_beast/MD_first_level_set.png
pcedev .net/altered_beast/PCE_first_boss.png
pcedev .net/altered_beast/MD_first_boss.png
pcedev .net/altered_beast/PCE_first_boss_2.png
pcedev .net/altered_beast/MD_first_boss_2.png

The genesis one uses 320pixel mode while the PCE use 256pixel mode, but the PCE has more shades and doesn't repeat colors as much. Plus, it has the animation of the debris similar to the arcade, instead of generic "clumps" of stuff. Too bad the backgrounds are pretty generic (atleast for the first stage).

 I also noticed poor use of sprites for some of the enemy parts- they overlay a second and third set of sprites to save animation, but increases flicker. The zombies arms and the headless-purple-dress-guy's head are some examples.

[Keranu]

Great comparison, the Wolf's kicking stances look way cooler in the PCE version.  There are a few sprites I prefer on the Genesis version though. It's funny you mention the clouds because when I first played the PCE version, it was those clouds that made me notice what I thought gave the PCE version a more polished look.

[Turbo D]

Great comparison  I've always liked the grafx in the pce version better. Especially that kicking stance 

[Tatsujin]

wow..yes..great comparison there. just a shame, the BGs in the PCE version didn't look that great as well and then the horrible gameplay

[Joe Redifer]

Great comparison, the Wolf's kicking stances look way cooler in the PCE version.

That's probably because the kicking stance isn't even in the Genesis version.  It was either include the kicking stance or include "Wise fwum your gwave".  Something had to give.

[Tatsujin]

a great thing in the PCE version as well is, the splattered zombie-parts which throwing out the screen. they don't zoom as in the arcade pendant, but at least they there.

[Keranu]

Great comparison, the Wolf's kicking stances look way cooler in the PCE version.

That's probably because the kicking stance isn't even in the Genesis version.  It was either include the kicking stance or include "Wise fwum your gwave".  Something had to give.

In that case, I'd take "Wise fwum yor gwave" any day .

[Turbo D]

haha, I'd like to have it all. I'll have to play the arcade 

[Gentlegamer]

I must have a hearing problem because the "Rise from your grave" command in the Genesis Altered Beast has always sounded clear and intelligible to me. 

[Tatsujin]

gonna play now the CD version with my system card v1.o

:edit:

damn..is there a cheat out for that one? can't find one.

[_Paul]

/compalteredbeast01nx2.gif
/compalteredbeast02bu6.gif
/compalteredbeast03ae6.gif

[Keranu]

Well at least the PCE version got the black and white part right for the second level boss ;) .

[Joe Redifer]

They got that part right for every boss.  The Genesis isn't powerful enough to do black and white.  Piece of shit.

Anyway, if you increase the difficulty on the Genesis version, you'll get more crap on the screen like the arcade.  The Genesis wins in backgrounds (except when they should be B&W) and the PC Engine wins at sprites.

[Ceti Alpha]

I would definitely give it up for the Genesis on the first level. The backgrounds on the Gen/MD are obviously more like the arcade and have better detail than the PCE. After level 1 though, at least from these screenshots, the differences are much less noticeable and are really a matter of preference.

[TurboXray]

gonna play now the CD version with my system card v1.o

:edit:

damn..is there a cheat out for that one? can't find one.

If you have a tototek card, you can use the system card 1.0 rom. The tototek card also lets you enable and disable cheats with side switch, though you'll have to look for the tototek cheat code (check out the tototek forums for a list of codes).

[Tatsujin]

don't have a so called tototek card only systemcard 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, arcade duo, pro. that's it.

[Ceti Alpha]

gonna play now the CD version with my system card v1.o

Cool. What are the differences between the HuCard version and the CD version?  With other games that are on both formats it seems the developers just remix the music and leave the graphics alone. Is this the case with Altered Beast?

[_Paul]

gonna play now the CD version with my system card v1.o

Cool. What are the differences between the HuCard version and the CD version?  With other games that are on both formats it seems the developers just remix the music and leave the graphics alone. Is this the case with Altered Beast?

The music on the CD version is chip generated. They were too lazy to even give us a proper soundtrack.

[Ceti Alpha]

The music on the CD version is chip generated. They were too lazy to even give us a proper soundtrack.

So there's no difference at all between the two then? 

[TurboXray]

The music on the CD version is chip generated. They were too lazy to even give us a proper soundtrack.

So there's no difference at all between the two then? 

Besides the cinemas? I noticed a difference in the background tiles between the two. They weren't really an upgrade as they were a change. The tree's are blue instead of green in the CD version - don't know why. Also, the CD version pauses the scrolling stage to load more of the game. It's definitely not the best use/configuration of the old CD layout (pre 3.0).

 hmm...

[Joe Redifer]

The CD version also has all of the voices from the arcade in full ADPCM glory.  There is an opening cinema on the CD music with music from the arcade version.  Other than that, they're pretty much the same for the most part.  The CD version is more playable due to the lack of ridiculous difficulty.

[Ceti Alpha]

The CD version also has all of the voices from the arcade in full ADPCM glory.

Well, that IS a significant improvement. How can you have Altered Beast without "Welcome to your doom!". 

[_Paul]

Here's an example of the colour difference

/alteredbeast002cm9.gif

[Keranu]

The CD version also has all of the voices from the arcade in full ADPCM glory.

Well, that IS a significant improvement. How can you have Altered Beast without "Welcome to your doom!". 

Agreed!

And those screenshots paul posted really help because I was wondering why they decided to choose that brown color as water in the HuCard version!

[Ceti Alpha]

Oh man. The graphics are way sharper on the CD version. And yeah, the colours make much more sense. heh 

[_Paul]

Here's another interesting comparison

/abeastcomparexh6.gif
/abeastcompare2ey5.gif
/abeastcompare3dv8.gif

[Joe Redifer]

Those are interesting comparisons!  The water is brown in the HuCard version because it is full of diarrhea to represent the quality of that version.  The thing that bugs me most about both versions is the sky in the first stage.  On the bottom it is bright, then it starts to get gradually darker as it goes towards the top, then at the score BAM it's full brightness again.  It looks really bad like that.

[nat]

Those are interesting comparisons!  The water is brown in the HuCard version because it is full of diarrhea to represent the quality of that version.  The thing that bugs me most about both versions is the sky in the first stage.  On the bottom it is bright, then it starts to get gradually darker as it goes towards the top, then at the score BAM it's full brightness again.  It looks really bad like that.

I don't think the area behind the score is supposed to be part of the sky/background. I'm pretty sure it's just a "status bar".

[Joe Redifer]

You're probably right, but it would look better as a giant black bar like most other NEC Avenue games.  They love the bar.

[Ceti Alpha]

You're probably right, but it would look better as a giant black bar like most other NEC Avenue games.  They love the bar.

I agree. If they were going to use that space as a status bar then why make it the same colour as the rest of the screen? Oh well, doesn't really matter because the game in whatever format on whatever system isn't much to write home about. It's just fun to compare Genesis/MD and Turbo/PCE. hehe 

[Tatsujin]

There is an opening cinema on the CD music with music from the arcade version. 

i watched that load of shit this week. they better had concentrated to improve the game to its max (grafx, gameplay, loading issues..) instead of wasting time and money for that useless and boring crap.

[Keranu]

Here's another interesting comparison

/abeastcomparexh6.gif
/abeastcompare2ey5.gif
/abeastcompare3dv8.gif

Wow, amazing differences! Some changes in the CD version's backgrounds look better, but other parts look worse (like that little statue shrine - ugly!)

[Tatsujin]

amazing how paul managed to take a pixel exact shot of the 2nd and 3rd comparison

[Keranu]

I think it's because the screens are stopped at those points.

[Tatsujin]

I think it's because the screens are stopped at those points.

i think so too my friend anyway nice catch^^

[_Paul]

I think it's because the screens are stopped at those points.

This is true

[OldTurboBastard]

Here's another interesting comparison

That's the single greatest screenshot comparison i've ever seen...nice

[Turbo D]

ya, its a great comparison 

[esteban]

I agree with what everyone has said thus far: these differences are pretty interesting, if not mind-boggling. The changes hardly seem worthwhile, but, as Keranu noted, some aspects of the CD version aren't better.

Crazy.

[esteban]

Put me in with Chris and Joe on this issue: I wasn't playing the Genesis for the sports games. I don't think all of the western-developed games for Genesis were bad, but many of them had a lot to be desired. That said, you have to admit that Genesis got a bunch of neat ports  (Star Control, King's Bounty, etc.) that make it a lot easier to dismiss the crappy stuff.

What first attracted me to the TurboGrafx-16 as a Genesis owner, was the 'original'/console games like Neutopia and Dungeon Explorer. I've always loved arcade games and it was cool to have faithful home ports of some, but I wanted some great SMS/NES games with next gen aesthetics. I liked stuff like Revenge of Shinobi, PSII, Sword of Vermillion and Last Battle more than GnG, Golden Axe and Strider.

I had a passing interest in the TG-16 from what little I'd seen of it, I really liked some of the colorful grafx. One day an aquantence of mine (real game nerd) invited me over to see his new TG-16 in action. He was playing Neutopia and Dungeon Explorer mainly that night. I didn't pay DE much attention, since it looked like a Gauntlet rip-off and I hated Gauntlet. Neutopia looked cool, but again I kinda brushed it off probably from console-bias of being a Genesis player.

But in the weeks that followed I started thinking about those games and couldn't get them out of mind. I quickly realized that they were exactly what I wanted (long questy 16-bit games). I got a TG-16 that X-Mas/Birthday and not long afterwards I found an ad in the newspaper in which that guy was selling both Neutopia and Dungeon Explorer.

Although I'd ocassionally sell and later buy new Genesis & SNES systems over the years, the TG-16/PCE is the one console I've always hung onto from that time onward.

Hahahhahahaha. Awesome. I hear you about the draw of original console titles. I hung on to the TG-16 as well, even though I really liked Genesis and SNES (and NES) as well.

Come to think of it, I am going to be so bold (and wacky) as to proclaim that the early 90's was the TRUE GOLDEN ERA of home consoles, at least for me. NES was still viable and great games were being released. TG-16 and Genny were new... then the SNES appeared. As far as I was concerned, there were FOUR VIABLE CONSOLES "co-existing" at the same time. Great games released for each system in the same span of a few years. If you add in the novelty of CD-ROM games (TG-CD, SegaCD), other eras just can't compare.

I'm having fun.

[Tatsujin]

I agree with what everyone has said thus far: these differences are pretty interesting, if not mind-boggling. The changes hardly seem worthwhile, but, as Keranu noted, some aspects of the CD version aren't better.

Crazy.

if the HuCard version had the voices (which shouldn't have been a big issue) plus a better gameplay (like the MD had), the game would be a decade better than what we got.

[mikeexpert233]

reality is most here are kids and are not from the 16 bit generation or are just uneducated to the facts  the fact is the turbografx is more powerful than snes or sega back in the 80s not many understood the technical aspects of game consoles so they just judged power based on bits today we know ram clock speed etc are more important mips stands for machine instructions per second the turbo has higher mips than the genesis all of you speaking on resolution are painfully wrong the fact is that the turbografx 16 could get resolutions of 512- thats more than snes sega neogeo ps1 even n64 and dont say it wasnt used infact both sherlock holmes games on the turbo used it the turbos 8 bit cpu was faster than segas 16 and yes paralex scrolling was possible on the turbo just more taxing infact games like gates of thunder used more paralex than sega did what gamres released on both systems look better on the sega i ask you? only 1 golden axe and it was ported by a third party streetfighter 2 the most powerful game at the time is rated better on turbo than snes or sega more colorful sharper clearer sound cadash on turbo 4 players on sega 2 on turbo better graphics shinobi the sega game actually is rated higher on pc engine all the valis games exile etc almost all games released on all 3 systems are better looking and sounding on turbo and lets not forget its the oldest of the 3 colors mattered most in the 2d era like neogeo turbo could put up big colors the sega coundnt plus turbos 2 16 bit graphics chips could go beyond the sega or snes in mips as i stated thats why dracula x couldnt be made on sega cd  turbo shooters on sega cd have slowdown too

[WoodyXP]

I have a headache.

[guyjin]

reality is most here are kids and are not from the 16 bit generation or are just uneducated to the facts  the fact is the turbografx is more powerful than snes or sega back in the 80s not many understood the technical aspects of game consoles so they just judged power based on bits today we know ram clock speed etc are more important mips stands for machine instructions per second the turbo has higher mips than the genesis all of you speaking on resolution are painfully wrong the fact is that the turbografx 16 could get resolutions of 512- thats more than snes sega neogeo ps1 even n64 and dont say it wasnt used infact both sherlock holmes games on the turbo used it the turbos 8 bit cpu was faster than segas 16 and yes paralex scrolling was possible on the turbo just more taxing infact games like gates of thunder used more paralex than sega did what gamres released on both systems look better on the sega i ask you? only 1 golden axe and it was ported by a third party streetfighter 2 the most powerful game at the time is rated better on turbo than snes or sega more colorful sharper clearer sound cadash on turbo 4 players on sega 2 on turbo better graphics shinobi the sega game actually is rated higher on pc engine all the valis games exile etc almost all games released on all 3 systems are better looking and sounding on turbo and lets not forget its the oldest of the 3 colors mattered most in the 2d era like neogeo turbo could put up big colors the sega coundnt plus turbos 2 16 bit graphics chips could go beyond the sega or snes in mips as i stated thats why dracula x couldnt be made on sega cd  turbo shooters on sega cd have slowdown too

whoever taught you english should be fired.

[Alt-PyschoNintega]

I don't think Turbo would have handled a game like Gunstar Heroes or Alien Soldier even with that Arcade Card Duo.

[Ceti Alpha]

I don't think Turbo would have handled a game like Gunstar Heroes or Alien Soldier even with that Arcade Card Duo.

Both those games look cool, but I don't see where the PC Engine would be unable to replicate, if not improve on.

[Tatsujin]

I don't think Turbo would have handled a game like Gunstar Heroes or Alien Soldier even with that Arcade Card Duo.

but neither the md would have handled a game like sapphire ;)

and colorwise it smokes both games on just one 8-bit databus with ease

[Joe Redifer]

If anyone thinks the Turbo could replicate, say, Gunstar Heroes without any loss whatsoever then they are fooling themselves.  That being said, anyone who thinks the Genesis could replicate , say, Air Zonk exactly would also be a fool.

The MD couldn't handle Sapphire, but the Sega CD could (with the requisite color loss, of course).  I'd like to see the Arcade Card handle Batman Returns or Soul Star.  Or Super Castlevania IV.  Can't be done, not even close.  But really, who cares?

[Tatsujin]

what the MD never would have been able to replicate exactly was a simple R-Type. the palette just wouldn't have been sufficient. and that was an almost release titel on the pce.