TG-16 in Top 5 Forgotten Consoles..bout time

[MotherGunner]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29396500/?pg=1#games_top5_090219_forgotten_consoles

[Sparky]

I was agreeing until i saw the gamecube? & the Commodore is a bit of a stretch as a console but i guess a lot of gaming took place back in the day on those, i would not know as i was one of those poor bastards that had a TRS 80 

[NecroPhile]

Thanks for the article full of fail; I needed a good laugh.  First off, the C64 wasn't a game console and subsequently doesn't belong on this list.  Secondly, the Saturn/TG-16/Gamecube/Dreamcast were commercial failures but not exactly forgotten, so why do they belong on this list when the likes of the Jaguar, 3DO, and 5200 go unnoticed?  Lastly, the Dreamcast "being the first-ever console to play online" makes me giggle.  This lame-ass-author-tool might want to stick to writing articles about subjects he actually knows, or at least learn how to do a bit o' research.

[guyjin]

Thanks for the article full of fail; I needed a good laugh.  First off, the C64 wasn't a game console and subsequently doesn't belong on this list.

Well, there was the C64GS, which is a console (even though it's really just a regular c64 w/o the keyboard, and with a cart slot)
but I'd hardly say it was forgotten. it was one of the best selling computers of all time. the XEGS would be a more appropriate entry.

Secondly, the Saturn/TG-16/Gamecube/Dreamcast were commercial failures but not exactly forgotten, so why do they belong on this list when the likes of the Jaguar, 3DO, and 5200 go unnoticed?

Because it's the _top_ 5 forgotten consoles. (though the 3d0's exclusion is indeed onerous)

Lastly, the Dreamcast "being the first-ever console to play online" makes me giggle.

umm, isn't it?

[NecroPhile]

Because it's the _top_ 5 forgotten consoles. (though the 3d0's exclusion is indeed onerous)

The key word is forgotten.  None of those four qualify when compared to the truly forgotten and neglected consoles.

umm, isn't it?

No; the NetLink, Satellaview, XBand, and surely others beat it to the punch.  Perhaps he meant that it's 'the first-ever console to play online natively', but it's silly to make such a distinction.  Actually, the Dreamcast might be the only console with a built-in modem, as the later consoles all had add-on adapters or Ethernet.

[Keranu]

Pippin @World/Atmark had a built-in modem, didn't it?

[NecroPhile]

Pippin @World/Atmark had a built-in modem, didn't it?

I do not know human, but considering its computer roots, it may well have.

[guyjin]

No; the NetLink, Satellaview, XBand, and surely others beat it to the punch.  Perhaps he meant that it's 'the first-ever console to play online natively', but it's silly to make such a distinction.  Actually, the Dreamcast might be the only console with a built-in modem, as the later consoles all had add-on adapters or Ethernet.

the Saturn Netlink was just a modem that connected one saturn to another; playing games via the internet was not possible (though web browsing was.) X-band was a proprietary network, and satellaview was a one-way download service. none of these things qualify as "online" to me.

[spenoza]

I concur. The Netlink, Xband, et al were not about playing on-line, via the actual intarwebz.

[NecroPhile]

the Saturn Netlink was just a modem that connected one saturn to another; playing games via the internet was not possible (though web browsing was.) X-band was a proprietary network, and satellaview was a one-way download service. none of these things qualify as "online" to me.

The term 'online' isn't limited to the internet, but rather describes a system which is connected to a larger network.  The physical network actually used should be irrelevant, as the end result was that two (or more) consoles were participating in the same game yet from separate locations.

[WoodyXP]

First off, the C64 wasn't a game console and subsequently doesn't belong on this list. 

Word life.. and the C64 was the ultimate gaming computer in it's time.  Nobody forgot that bad-ass.

What a sorry article.

[MotherGunner]

Jesus....

some of you have an attitude like the economy....."ugly"

Calm down.

[guyjin]

The term 'online' isn't limited to the internet, but rather describes a system which is connected to a larger network.  The physical network actually used should be irrelevant, as the end result was that two (or more) consoles were participating in the same game yet from separate locations.

true. However, you don't get long distance fees for playing Dreamcast games for hours.

[Joe Redifer]

I forgot about the TurboGrafx-16.  Thanks for reminding me, NMCSB or whoever you are!

[MotherGunner]

I think the point is being missed.  I re-read the article and I don't think "forgotten" is being used with ill will.

In fact, the subtitle is "These neglected game systems are also some of the most endearing" so the author clearly views them in a positive light.

[spenoza]

Interesting you should say that, because he really bad mouths the Saturn entry. Heck, the Dreamcast and the TG-16 get the most glowing praise.

[Blammo]

Interesting you should say that, because he really bad mouths the Saturn entry. Heck, the Dreamcast and the TG-16 get the most glowing praise.

You think? I thought he was being sarcastic about the TG16.

Maybe I read it wrong though.

[Vic Viper]

Since it said "Top Five,"  I just assumed that meant the BEST 5 forgotten consoles, not necessarily the least remembered forgotten consoles,  so the only big gripe I have with the article is including the Game Cube.  While it may not have been number one in it's day, it was still extremely popular if I remember correctly, and shouldn't be considered to be a forgotten console at all.  I loved my Saturn and Dreamcast, and wholeheartedly agree with those choices.  At one point I had 7 or 8 consoles and decided I didn't need that many, so I scaled it down to 3.  The Dreamcast and Saturn didn't make the cut, but I still have my TG-16!

[NecroPhile]

I think the point is being missed.  I re-read the article and I don't think "forgotten" is being used with ill will.

In fact, the subtitle is "These neglected game systems are also some of the most endearing" so the author clearly views them in a positive light.

It's perfectly obvious that he likes the consoles in the article; what was posted in this thread that led you to believe that anybody thought otherwise? 

What's being discussed (and quite calmly as far as I can tell, seeing as there's no flying expletives and nobody's mother has been mentioned) is that the article's topic is not well supported by the chosen consoles:  besides not being a console, the C64 was sold for over a decade with thousands of titles released; the GameCube was profitable and supported for a reasonable length of time; the other three admittedly had relatively short lives in the U.S. (though the Turbo and Saturn were better supported in Japan), yet I've no doubt that there's a higher percentage of 'em still in use today than the better selling consoles (a.k.a. - not forgotten).

[Blammo]

Since it said "Top Five,"  I just assumed that meant the BEST 5 forgotten consoles, not necessarily the least remembered forgotten consoles,  so the only big gripe I have with the article is including the Game Cube.  While it may not have been number one in it's day, it was still extremely popular if I remember correctly, and shouldn't be considered to be a forgotten console at all.  I loved my Saturn and Dreamcast, and wholeheartedly agree with those choices.

I'm not so sure Gamecube was as popular as you think it was.

Had Dreamcast been around for the entire PS2/GC/Xbox generation I'm fairly sure it would have outsold Gamecube. Sega would have made a mint out of me anyway
DC sold 10 million units in a year or two. GC sold 20 million in five years. By Nintendo's standards they did very poorly that generation. I'm not sure they even made money on the Gamecube.

Having said all that, I agree with your disinclination to put Gamecube in the list, because I don't think the first party support was all that good. I've been feeling very meh over Mario and Zelda these past two generations, and I think any developer with a genuine care for quality could surpass Nintendo's efforts these days.

[CrackTiger]

Gamecube games are still supported by a current console. If the SuperGrafx had been released in North American and beaten both the Genesis and SNES I don't think people would consider the TG-16 a forgotten console today.

[Press_Run]

Gamecube games are still supported by a current console. If the SuperGrafx had been released in North American and beaten both the Genesis and SNES I don't think people would consider the TG-16 a forgotten console today.

Can't see SuperGrafx beating two popular systems with hundreds of titles each under their belt with a library consisting only a handful of games in Japan. I saw the system myself once by a guy who also brought over the CD-ROM2 attachment, Strider (PCE import), and a legit "burned" copy of Space Fantasy Zone. The system was a BEAST! What was more perplexing was the fact it STILL have only ONE port.

[Joe Redifer]

How many ports do you want?  Sure, Ghouls 'n Ghosts is a good one, but don't you count Darius Alpha as a port as well?  Or is that an original game?  I guess for a system with fewer games than I have intestines (it seems), one port is still pretty good.  Could have had two if it had gotten Strider!!!  Too bad the entire team who was working on it committed suicide.  Good riddance, I say!

[Press_Run]

LOL, I meant controller ports! You think by then NEC would've fixed that by actually having a second CONTROLLER port into their systems.

[Turbo D]

I think NEC was against the image of a "family" console. They wanted their console to mainly be a one player experience. Plus, if NEC added extra controller ports, then how could they sell off all of those taps they made?

[Press_Run]

I think NEC was against the image of a "family" console. They wanted their console to mainly be a one player experience. Plus, if NEC added extra controller ports, then how could they sell off all of those taps they made?

Better question is how could they sell off their GAMES with the multiplayer feature instead? It bothered me how the Turbo grafx lacked a feature that was common sense in the console industry. Hell, even the CD-I had a second controller port, albeit in the back. You would have to pay for the second controller on most other console but with the Turbo grafx, a 2nd controller AND Turbotap was necessary.

A few weeks ago, when a buddy from work came over to play some games, he opted for a shooter game and I suggested Soldier Blade. However, he wanted to play together but I didn't have the Turbo Tap. Tried to persuade him to try it by himself but he insisted it was not right for me to be "left out" while he was playing.

[CrackTiger]

Gamecube games are still supported by a current console. If the SuperGrafx had been released in North American and beaten both the Genesis and SNES I don't think people would consider the TG-16 a forgotten console today.

Can't see SuperGrafx beating two popular systems with hundreds of titles each under their belt with a library consisting only a handful of games in Japan. I saw the system myself once by a guy who also brought over the CD-ROM2 attachment, Strider (PCE import), and a legit "burned" copy of Space Fantasy Zone. The system was a BEAST! What was more perplexing was the fact it STILL have only ONE port. 

What I'm saying is suppose the backwards compatible SuperGrafx was released in North America after the TG-16 tanked, got thousands of amazing games (including TG-16 re-releases) and everyone in the world just loved it.

It probably wouldn't be "forgotten" by so many people, just as the Gamecube isn't some mystery device that every kid with a Wii and their thrifty moms has never heard of.

[NecroPhile]

What I'm saying is suppose the backwards compatible SuperGrafx was released in North America after the TG-16 tanked, got thousands of amazing games (including TG-16 re-releases) and everyone in the world just loved it.

It probably wouldn't be "forgotten" by so many people, just as the Gamecube isn't some mystery device that every kid with a Wii and their thrifty moms has never heard of.

Indeed.  Similarly, I bet the SMS would've been better remembered had the Genny supported its games natively.

[CrackTiger]

I think NEC was against the image of a "family" console. They wanted their console to mainly be a one player experience. Plus, if NEC added extra controller ports, then how could they sell off all of those taps they made?

Better question is how could they sell off their GAMES with the multiplayer feature instead? It bothered me how the Turbo grafx lacked a feature that was common sense in the console industry. Hell, even the CD-I had a second controller port, albeit in the back. You would have to pay for the second controller on most other console but with the Turbo grafx, a 2nd controller AND Turbotap was necessary.

A few weeks ago, when a buddy from work came over to play some games, he opted for a shooter game and I suggested Soldier Blade. However, he wanted to play together but I didn't have the Turbo Tap. Tried to persuade him to try it by himself but he insisted it was not right for me to be "left out" while he was playing.

If your buddy came by to play a 2 player Genesis or SNES game and you didn't have a second controller you'd be in the same boat. Not only did the Genesis normally only ship with only one control pad, but all the 'chumps' who shelled out for a second controller wound up having to buy two more 6-button controllers after street fighting game became all the rage. Even as a jobless kid a Turbo Tap seemed very affordable and at least it supports as many as 5 players plus there are some great 5 player games even on the North American side.

We'll never know how much of an impact having a single port and pad out of the box made on the Turbo market, since pretty much everything else was handled to poorly. Maybe instead of having 5 - 7 pack-in games with the TurboDuo, they could've included only one or two and instead thrown in a second pad and a Duo Tap. But it was obviously not a deal breaker for the market it was designed for, since the PC Engine was a huge success.

What is much more common sense today than a second control port was back then, is having free online multi-player service out of the box. But both the Wii and 360 don't have this yet both are major successes while the PS3 does and is trailing behind. Hell companies today are selling games that require huge expensive dedicated gimmicky controllers and people still buy them all, even when a complete Rock Band/Guitar Hero set costs nearly as much as the console itself. A Turbo Tap seems like a pretty reasonable purchase compared to Nunchuks, Webcams, Congas, Maracas and Fit boards.

[Joe Redifer]

No kidding, great points, BT.  Still, I've never been able to justify purchasing stuff required for Rock Band, etc.  Of course that might require me to actually enjoy that genre somewhat.  But I don't.

[Press_Run]

If your buddy came by to play a 2 player Genesis or SNES game and you didn't have a second controller you'd be in the same boat. Not only did the Genesis normally only ship with only one control pad, but all the 'chumps' who shelled out for a second controller wound up having to buy two more 6-button controllers after street fighting game became all the rage. Even as a jobless kid a Turbo Tap seemed very affordable and at least it supports as many as 5 players plus there are some great 5 player games even on the North American side.

First off, always have a 2nd controller when company want to "throwdown"  .

Second, all the other consoles were built with the idea of co-op play, so one item was need to play with a friend while two were necessary to fill that role for the Turbo Grafx. The Tap did allow up to 5 players but how many games allowed up to 5? I know the Bomberman games did.

What is much more common sense today than a second control port was back then, is having free online multi-player service out of the box. But both the Wii and 360 don't have this yet both are major successes while the PS3 does and is trailing behind. Hell companies today are selling games that require huge expensive dedicated gimmicky controllers and people still buy them all, even when a complete Rock Band/Guitar Hero set costs nearly as much as the console itself. A Turbo Tap seems like a pretty reasonable purchase compared to Nunchuks, Webcams, Congas, Maracas and Fit boards.

Guitar Hero and Rock Band came with the necessary tools to play upon purchase like how the Light Gun was used for Duck Hunt but I don't really see the fascination in pretending to play music except provide entertainment for group gathering. I didn't like the idea in having to buy accessories providing features that were already commonplace in consoles (i.e. 2-player co-op, A/V output). And comparing old-gen prices to new-gen isn't sound water under the bridge unless we're talking about the retail price for a Turbo Tap from 1990. 

[Ceti Alpha]

The Tap did allow up to 5 players but how many games allowed up to 5? I know the Bomberman games did.

Dungeon Explorer allowed up to five players. Hell, I had a TurboTap and 4 controllers just for DE - that game was well worth the TTap alone. Most...all my gaming friends were Genesis owners so they did give me a hard time about the TG, but DE multiplayer usually shut them up.

[NecroPhile]

Good points all around, Black Tiger.  As you said, the PCE sold like hotcakes in Japan, so the lack of a second controller port was likely a non-issue.  I know it didn't bother me much, as what good would a second port do when I wanted to fully experience the awesomeness of Bomberman and Dungeon Explorer?  At least the Duo came with coupons to save $5 off the purchase of games and accessories; buying one multiplayer game, a controller, and a tap would save $15 - making the tap more or less free.

[Ceti Alpha]

Good points all around, Black Tiger.  As you said, the PCE sold like hotcakes in Japan, so the lack of a second controller port was likely a non-issue.  I know it didn't bother me much, as what good would a second port do when I wanted to fully experience the awesomeness of Bomberman and Dungeon Explorer?  At least the Duo came with coupons to save $5 off the purchase of games and accessories; buying one multiplayer game, a controller, and a tap would save $15 - making the tap more or less free.

Yep. The one controller port on the TG was definitely not a huge gripe with me. I guess it would have been if there was only the option to play 2 player games. I guess it just seemed odd to gamers who were used to the 2600 and NES having 2 controller ports built right in.

[SNKNostalgia]

I didn't really care too much about just having one port. I only had Keith's Courage, Final Lap Twin and then Cadash a few months after. FL Twin you can race each other, but I had more fun playing quest. Cadash would have been nice in those days with 2 player though. Nowadays, I couldn't get someone to even sit in front of the TV with my Duo hooked up unless Lords of Thunder was being played and it is 1 player anyways.

[Joe Redifer]

I am kind of thankful for the TurboTap and its large DIN connectors.  I don't have nor do I ever plan to buy 5 controllers, so I desoldered port 5's DIN from the TurboTap and it was installed into my TurboCD Interface Unit as an RGB output which I can use a regular DIN RGB cable.

[CrackTiger]

First off, always have a 2nd controller when company want to "throwdown"  .

That second Turbo Pad must be pretty lonely without a Tap.

Second, all the other consoles were built with the idea of co-op play, so one item was need to play with a friend while two were necessary to fill that role for the Turbo Grafx. The Tap did allow up to 5 players but how many games allowed up to 5? I know the Bomberman games did.

I mentioned the 5 player aspect just because one plus about the Tap is that extra player over 4 player adapters on other consoles. On the TG-16, the Tap is well worth purchasing just for Bomberman alone, but Bomberman '93, Dungeon Explorer and Dungeon Explorer II are all top quality games that genuinely benefit from 3 or more player simultaneous play. Motoroader is also lots of fun and since people love Smash Bros games so much, I'm assuming that Battle Royale would be entertaining with 5 human players. I'm not sure how many of the sports games allowed for up to 5 players since I've never been a fan of the genre.

Guitar Hero and Rock Band came with the necessary tools to play upon purchase like how the Light Gun was used for Duck Hunt but I don't really see the fascination in pretending to play music except provide entertainment for group gathering. I didn't like the idea in having to buy accessories providing features that were already commonplace in consoles (i.e. 2-player co-op, A/V output). And comparing old-gen prices to new-gen isn't sound water under the bridge unless we're talking about the retail price for a Turbo Tap from 1990. 

Guitar Hero and Rock Band sell as a lone game, game + guitar or game + band set... but they all cost more with the instruments. They could be designed with optional modes that are pad-friendly, just as most Wii games should give you the option of using a Gamecube pad, but companies aren't in the business of giving game players what they want. 2+ player games are better supported on the TG-16 than light gun games are on the NES, but I only ever saw the light gun sold separate from any games or bundled with some NES packages, which always cost more than the base set.

Things may have changed, but the PS3 originally shipped well into the hi-def generation with only a composite cable and the Wii doesn't do any of it's limited online abilities without purchasing accessories, so it's still commonplace for consoles to ship without commonplace console features out of the box.

I didn't compare gen-prices, I said that as an unemployed kid back in the day (1990'ish), the Turbo Tap was easily affordable. A few years later I even bought a Duo Tap and extra Duo Pads just for the hell of it even though I had the Turbo-to-Duo adapter. Games back then cost the same here as current ones do today. The Tap and Pads each cost just under half the price of a game. Proportionately, a second Wii remote + nunchuk or a wireless Xbox 360 pad cost about the same as a Turbo Pad + Turbo Tap did.

Anyways, as you can see many other people outside of Japan didn't mind the single controller port.


One cost-saving feature of TG-16 games is that they fit in CD racks, so you didn't have to shell out for another fancy dedicated game rack.

[esteban]

NEC created bundles for folks like Press_Run:

Bonk SuperSet
Bonk SuperSet (again)

even better:

COUPON: Free TurboTap / DuoTap with purchase of Bomberman '93

This advertisement+coupon for Bomberman '93 ran in EGM and other major magazines for a few issues.