Game resolutions

spenoza · 03/24/2009, 03:43 PM

I did a quick search and didn't come up with anything. Is there a thread on here somewhere that talks about which TG-16 (or PCE for that matter) games use 256x256 and which games use 320x240?

ccovell · 03/24/2009, 07:17 PM

256x256 is rather impossible, since the PCE maxes out its vertical resolution at 242...

CrackTiger · 03/24/2009, 07:20 PM

I started a list on my other computer of Turbo/PCE games that use anything above 256 pixels wide resolution. I only counted games that used higher resolutions for substantial sections and it was far from a comprehensive list, I only listed games I either knew of, could think of and/or test out. I did manage to count up over 100 titles though.

spenoza · 03/24/2009, 10:16 PM

@ccovell
I thought the standard PCE res was 256x256. I'd love to be corrected, though. What is the most used resolution?

@Black Tiger
Care to share the preliminary list?

Joe Redifer · 03/24/2009, 10:33 PM

256x240 is by far and wide the most used resolution. Oops, did I say "wide"? Sorry.

TurboXray · 03/24/2009, 10:33 PM

The PCE can use all sorts of 'resolutions', but it's misleading. For example, 320 mode(horizontal) has the same pixel dot size as 336, 344, and 352. A more correct way is stating the dot clock. PCE has 5.37mhz, 7.16mhz, 10.74mhz which usually corresponds to 256xYYY, 336/344xYYY, and 512xYYY. The PCE can have from 1 to 512 scanlines vertically, but it can only show a max of 242 scanlines (any higher setting is not shown). It also doesn't effect the "dot" size of the pixel when you set the number of displayable scanlines, less than 242 and the image gets "letterboxed" so to speak.

As far as which games? Rtype, Forgotten Worlds... I don't remember what else, use the 7.16mhz dot size. Most games use the 5.37mhz dot size because it has a better ratio for sprites per scanline. For 10.74mhz dot clock, one DMA design game uses it for the logo at startup and TV Sports basketball uses it in parts. Coryoon has a mode where you can see 4 screens at once, that uses the 10.74mhz mode.

Keranu · 03/25/2009, 12:27 AM

I am nearly positive that thread exists somewhere. I think Kaminari was the one to make the list.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/24/2009, 10:33 PM256x240 is by far and wide the most used resolution. Oops, did I say "wide"? Sorry.

224

Joe Redifer · 03/25/2009, 12:50 AM

OK.

ccovell · 03/25/2009, 10:56 AM

Quote from: Keranu on 03/25/2009, 12:27 AMI am nearly positive that thread exists somewhere. I think Kaminari was the one to make the list.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/24/2009, 10:33 PM256x240 is by far and wide the most used resolution. Oops, did I say "wide"? Sorry.
224

Sorry, Keranu, 224 is wrong. Check out my post here: http://forums.magicengine.com/en/viewtopic.php?t=1798

(Some excerpts for the reading-disinclined:)

Quote from: meSo to put my money where my mouth is, I've tried out all the PC-Engine ROMs that I have and tested whether the majority set their (vertical) resolutions to something quite high, ie: near or past 240 lines; or low, around or less than 232 or 224 lines. Being as accurate as possible, then, I tested 277 licensed (meaning no Games Express), Japanese PCE ROMs, and noted their VDC settings.

28 (twenty-eight) of these games set their vertical resolutions to something around 224 lines.
249 (two hundred and forty-nine) games set their resolutions to around 240 lines.

I think it's fair to say that a vast majority of games (90%) use the higher vertical resolution.

Funny enough, the most common VDC register setting in the 240-line camp was:
(from VSW:) $02,$0F,$00EF,$04 (which actually sets up a 239-line screen.)

NecroPhile · 03/25/2009, 11:27 AM

Very interesting, Mr. Covell. Have you checked the resolutions of many disc based titles since that thread? I doubt that programmers would've utilized a different resolution for a different storage format, but what do I know?

spenoza · 03/25/2009, 04:15 PM

So would it be safe to say that the most-used screen resolution setting on the TG-16/PCE is 256x240?

NecroPhile · 03/25/2009, 05:10 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/25/2009, 04:15 PMSo would it be safe to say that the most-used screen resolution setting on the TG-16/PCE is 256x240?

As taken from the thread linked by ccovell:

Quote from: ccovellMost games use a 256 pixel horizontal resolution. Some use more or less, of course. So based on my tests, the most common resolution is 256x239.

CrackTiger · 03/26/2009, 07:09 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/24/2009, 10:16 PM@Black Tiger
Care to share the preliminary list?

As I feared, most of it was hand written and I could only find the tail end that I had listed in a word file-

Princess Maker
Princess Maker 2
Puyo Puyo CD
Puyo Puyo CD Tsu
Quiz Caravan Cult Q
Quiz Donosama No Yabou
Quiz Marugoto The World 2 Time Machine Ni Onegai!:
R-Type (all 4 versions)
Rainbow Islands
Shangai
Shanghai II
Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective Vol 1
Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective Vol 2
Shogi Shoshinsha Muyo
Side Arms
Sim Earth
Sol Moonarge
Sorcerian
Sword Master
Tenchi O Kurau
Tenshi No Uta
Tokimeki Memorial
TV Sports Basketball
TV Sports Football
TV Sports Hockey
Virgin Dream
Winning Shot
Wizardry I & II
Wizardry III & IV
Wizardry V
Yo Bro
Ys I & II
Ys III
Zan Kagerou No Toki

Still a decent number considering it only covers P - Z of the titles I could investigate online. I'll keep looking for the rest.

spenoza · 03/26/2009, 08:19 PM

Random tidbit. Did you know that the co-creator of Wizardry (worked on 1 & 2, maybe 3), Robert Woodhead, went on to create Animeigo and translate anime and Japanese movies?

Arkhan Asylum · 03/27/2009, 01:50 AM

is there a document that lists some good PCE resolution settings?

...and whats the default that say Magic Kit puts the system into??

it seems like 256x192 unless I am looking at something wrong.

I know its not 320x240 or 256x240 because images of X by 240 get hacked off at the bottom >_>

I've just left it at the default and never bothered messing with it. Now might be a good time to.

ccovell · 03/27/2009, 06:15 AM

MagicKit looks to set the screen height to 224 (going from what HuC has...), but what's worse, several emulators have their resolution fixed to this and won't display more than 224 lines... common culprits are MagicEngine and YAME, which is what started my whole resolution measuring in the first place, and which is what also led to this (scroll down to the very bottom).

Thank goodness some emulators like Mednafen let you adjust whether to clip off any or none of the PCE's full 242 lines of resolution...

Joe Redifer · 03/27/2009, 09:01 AM

Chris, your examples are really interesting For fun I booted up one of the very few PC Engine emulators for the Mac simply called "TGEmu" and captured the first screen of Bonk's Revenge. I see water and coconuts!

Arkhan Asylum · 03/27/2009, 04:36 PM

Oh...well thats an interesting "fun" fact.

Guess I never noticed since I dont play games on the emulator too much..

good to know for sure.

spenoza · 03/27/2009, 04:53 PM

How does one do this in Mednafen?

ccovell · 03/27/2009, 06:03 PM

";First rendered scanline.
pce.slstart 1

;Last rendered scanline.
pce.slend 240"

in mednafen.cfg, as far as I know.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/27/2009, 08:46 PM

Yeah, im so used to magic engine and its pretty GUI that I dont use Mednafen much...

what res is keith courage in?

256x240?

TurboXray · 03/27/2009, 10:13 PM

The new ME has support for 240 scanline mode.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/27/2009, 10:51 PM

Yeah, I might upgrade to that and buy the PCFX emulator while im at it.

spenoza · 03/28/2009, 11:00 AM

Between Mednafen and Ootake I still don't see why I should buy a TG emulator.

TurboXray · 03/28/2009, 02:05 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/28/2009, 11:00 AMBetween Mednafen and Ootake I still don't see why I should buy a TG emulator.

There is none, but some people have already purchased ME and the upgrades are free.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/28/2009, 05:58 PM

Quote from: Tom on 03/28/2009, 02:05 PM
Quote from: guest on 03/28/2009, 11:00 AMBetween Mednafen and Ootake I still don't see why I should buy a TG emulator.
There is none, but some people have already purchased ME and the upgrades are free.

like me.

But, I do prefer ootake, and forgot I even had it.

I just remembered 10 mins ago oddly enough.

CrackTiger · 04/02/2009, 07:31 PM

I found what should be the main hand written list that I made. I know the count was higher at one point, but still 90 or so titles is still quite a few for a "so-far-found" list.

Addams Family
Adventure Quiz Capcom World
Andre Panza Kickboxing
Blue Blink/Aoi Blink
Baby Joe
Battle Royale
Beyond Shadowgate
Panic Bomber
Builder Land
Burai
Burai II
Camp California
Champions Forever Boxing
Daimakaimura/Ghouls 'N Ghosts
Daisenryaku II
Davis Cup Tennis HuCard
Davis Cup Tennis CD
Deja
Doukyusei
Dragon Knight & Graffiti
Dragon Knight II
Dragon Knight III -if the amount of cinemas count
Dragon Slayer
Dragon Slayer II
Dungeon Master Theron's Quest
Forgotten Worlds
Formation Soccer
Ghost Manor
Helfire S
Horror Story
It Came From The Desert
J League Tremendous Soccer 94
Jack Nicklaus Golf HuCard
Jack Nicklaus Golf CD
Jong Shin Densetsu
The Kick Boxing
Kiyuu Kiyoku Mahjong Idol Graphics Vol 2
Klax
Legend Of Hero Tonma
Loom
Lord Of Wars
Madou Monogatari
Mahjong Lemon Angel
Master Of Monsters
Might & Magic III
Military Madness/Nectaris
Mr Heli
Morita Shogi PC
Motoroader MC
Neo Nectaris
Ninja Spirit
Order Of The Griffon -if you count the amount of higher res scenes...
Populous HuCard
Populous CD
Prince Of Persia
Puyo Puyo CD
Puyo Puyo Tsu
Quiz Caravan Cult Q
Quiz Donosama No Yabou
Quiz Marugoto The World 2 Time Machine Ni Onegai!
R-Type HuCards
Rainbow Islands
Shangai
Shanghai II
Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective Vol 1
Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective Vol 2
Shogi Shoshinsha Muyo
Side Arms
Sim Earth
Sol Moonarge
Sorcerian
Sword Master
Tenchi O Kurau
Tenshi No Uta
Tokimeki Memorial
TV Sports Basketball
TV Sports Football
TV Sports Hockey
Virgin Dream
Winning Shot
Wizardry I & II
Wizardry III & IV
Wizardry V
Yo Bro
Ys I & II
Ys III
Zan Kagerou No Toki

Keranu · 04/02/2009, 08:32 PM

Wow, that's a lot more than I thought. I also wasn't aware Military Madness had a bigger resolution, I would've easily thought that was another 256x224/240 game.