FACT: There is no God.

guyjin · 04/01/2009, 05:13 PM

Discuss.

albinoMithos · 04/01/2009, 05:31 PM

There may not be a god but there is a great Goddess. All glory to Lolth, the great Demon Queen of the Spiders!!!!!

rag-time4 · 04/01/2009, 05:37 PM

The existence of PC-Engine proves conclusively that there is a God, and that He is Merciful and Just.

TheMilford · 04/01/2009, 05:38 PM

I agree.

I also believe that religion is the root of all evil and strife in the world. It is like a cancer of humankind.

To believe in a god(s) is to have a hand in the stunting of the proliferation of intellect, logic and the progression of humankind into the future.

If you worship you are fucking it up for everybody.

NecroPhile · 04/01/2009, 05:56 PM

Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 05:37 PMThe existence of PC-Engine and women proves conclusively that there is a God, and that He is Merciful and Just and likes boobies.

I've corrected that for you.

Keranu · 04/01/2009, 06:00 PM

Quote from: TheMilford on 04/01/2009, 05:38 PMI agree.

I also believe that religion is the root of all evil and strife in the world. It is like a cancer of humankind.

To believe in a god(s) is to have a hand in the stunting of the proliferation of intellect, logic and the progression of humankind into the future.

If you worship you are fucking it up for everybody.

The root of all evil is lack of control and respect. With posts like this, world peace can never happen (not that I believe it's possible anyways).

FACT: Religious people exists and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Either respect their views on life and have them respect yours or fight them with no avail. Just as a religious person might not be able to convert you, you might not be able to convert a religious person. It's dogmatic either way.

guyjin · 04/01/2009, 06:40 PM

Quote from: Mithos on 04/01/2009, 05:31 PMThere may not be a god but there is a great Goddess. All glory to Lolth, the great Demon Queen of the Spiders!!!!!

Dragonlance was great, wunnit? but they had to go and fuck it up...

Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 05:37 PMThe existence of PC-Engine proves conclusively that there is a God, and that He is Merciful and Just.

If there were a just and merciful god, every PC-Engine game (except the bad ones) would have been released in every country and they would still be selling millions. They aren't. Therefore, no god.

Quote from: TheMilford on 04/01/2009, 05:38 PMI agree.

you don't "agree" with facts! they're facts!

QuoteI also believe that religion is the root of all evil and strife in the world. It is like a cancer of humankind.

To believe in a god(s) is to have a hand in the stunting of the proliferation of intellect, logic and the progression of humankind into the future.

If you worship you are fucking it up for everybody.

Now THIS is an agreement.

Quote from: guest on 04/01/2009, 05:56 PM
Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 05:37 PMThe existence of PC-Engine and women proves conclusively that there is a God, and that He is Merciful and Just and likes boobies.
I've corrected that for you.

If there were a god, women wouldn't be so crazy. But I'd be crazy too if I bled where I pee once a month.

Quote from: Keranu on 04/01/2009, 06:00 PMThe root of all evil is lack of control and respect. With posts like this, world peace can never happen (not that I believe it's possible anyways).

Why should stating a fact inhibit world peace? The Earth goes around the Sun. If you wanna start a fight with me because you imagine the Sun goes around the Earth, that's your problem; and you need to get over it because the fact is that the Earth goes around the Sun.

QuoteFACT: Religious people exists and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Sadly, that's true. There are still people who think the Earth is flat. but everyone knows they're crazy, and they don't go around destroying stuff because the rest of us don't believe 'em.

QuoteEither respect their views on life and have them respect yours or fight them with no avail. Just as a religious person might not be able to convert you, you might not be able to convert a religious person. It's dogmatic either way.

I don't have to respect the idea that the Sun goes around the Earth, or the idea that the Earth is flat, because they are wrong. I can respect the person who has such silly ideas, because everyone is mistaken from time to time, but that doesn't change the fact that they are wrong and should be corrected.

termis · 04/01/2009, 06:45 PM

I need empirical evidence for this "fact".

Joe Redifer · 04/01/2009, 07:01 PM

Quote from: KeranuThe root of all evil is lack of control and respect. With posts like this, world peace can never happen.

Says the man who is all for anarchy on the internet and no rules. Damn Keranu, maybe you are more retarded than I thought. You might just be a downright dumbfuck!

TheMilford · 04/01/2009, 07:02 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 04/01/2009, 06:00 PM
Quote from: TheMilford on 04/01/2009, 05:38 PMI agree.

I also believe that religion is the root of all evil and strife in the world. It is like a cancer of humankind.

To believe in a god(s) is to have a hand in the stunting of the proliferation of intellect, logic and the progression of humankind into the future.

If you worship you are fucking it up for everybody.
The root of all evil is lack of control and respect. With posts like this, world peace can never happen (not that I believe it's possible anyways).

FACT: Religious people exists and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Either respect their views on life and have them respect yours or fight them with no avail. Just as a religious person might not be able to convert you, you might not be able to convert a religious person. It's dogmatic either way.

How did you glean that I don't respect people that are religious, because what I said was harsh? I treat everybody with all the the respect they deserve (and no more). I have plenty of religious friends and family members... I know how they feel and they know how I feel. I have respect for them as humans, and maybe intellectuals so long as they can have a debate without getting personally offended.

Free and open debate is the only way we'll ever get past this and other bullshit.

Arjak · 04/01/2009, 07:11 PM

Guyjin, I agree that people have done some pretty fucked up things in the name of religion, but you forget that religion has good elements. I also demand proof of your so called 'fact!'

I laugh at the idea of Atheism. What's the point of having a religion about religious people being stupid? Isn't that ironic?

Quote from: guyjin on 04/01/2009, 06:40 PM
Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 05:37 PMThe existence of PC-Engine proves conclusively that there is a God, and that He is Merciful and Just.
If there were a just and merciful god, every PC-Engine game (except the bad ones) would have been released in every country and they would still be selling millions. They aren't. Therefore, no god.

I have to go with rag-time4 on this one. The fact that some great games didn't come to the U.S. doesn't disprove God.

It just proves the Devil.

rag-time4 · 04/01/2009, 07:21 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/01/2009, 07:01 PM
Quote from: KeranuThe root of all evil is lack of control and respect. With posts like this, world peace can never happen.
Says the man who is all for anarchy on the internet and no rules. Damn Keranu, maybe you are more retarded than I thought. You might just be a downright dumbfuck!

I think by control here he means self-control, not authoritarian / totalitarian control of people by outside influences.

Quote from: Arjak on 04/01/2009, 07:11 PM
Quote from: guyjin
Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 05:37 PMThe existence of PC-Engine proves conclusively that there is a God, and that He is Merciful and Just.
If there were a just and merciful god, every PC-Engine game (except the bad ones) would have been released in every country and they would still be selling millions. They aren't. Therefore, no god.
I have to go with rag-time4 on this one. The fact that some great games didn't come to the U.S. doesn't disprove God.

It just proves the Devil.

If the PC Engine didn't sell that great here in the U.S. it's only because not enough people believe in God and are truly thankful for His many blessings.

guyjin · 04/01/2009, 07:28 PM

Quote from: termis on 04/01/2009, 06:45 PMI need empirical evidence for this "fact".

You need it as much as I need evidence that rain isn't unicorn pee. I don't have to prove it doesn't exist, you have to prove it does.

Quote from: arjackWhat's the point of having a religion about religious people being stupid? Isn't that ironic?

If Atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.
And it's not about religious people being stupid - the smartest kid in your school once believed there was a Santa Claus. But eventually, he (and, most likely, even the dumbest kid in your school) figured out it was nonsense.

termis · 04/01/2009, 07:46 PM

Quote from: guyjin on 04/01/2009, 07:28 PM
Quote from: termis on 04/01/2009, 06:45 PMI need empirical evidence for this "fact".
You need it as much as I need evidence that rain isn't unicorn pee. I don't have to prove it doesn't exist, you have to prove it does.

No I don't. I never stated that existence of god is a fact. In this thread, the burden of proof is on you to provide the evidence.

Going by what you're stating, I can just as easily use circular logic to claim, "FACT: You can't provide empirical evidence to prove non-existence of god, therefore god must exist."

guyjin · 04/01/2009, 08:01 PM

Quote from: termis on 04/01/2009, 07:46 PMGoing by what you're stating, I can just as easily use circular logic to claim, "FACT: You can't provide empirical evidence to prove non-existence of god, therefore god must exist."

likewise, i can use that logic to claim "FACT: You can't provide empirical evidence to prove non-existence of unicorn pee, therefore rain must be unicorn pee." the idea that rain is unicorn pee, or that there is a god, requires extraordinary evidence. For ideas like evolution, or the solar system, that evidence was found. in the case of god, it has not.

Joe Redifer · 04/01/2009, 08:16 PM

Quote from: guyjinIf Atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

I like this.

To me, religion usually seems to be a way for people to feel comfortable in their existence. They cannot accept the fact that there is no afterlife. Religion is a means of living forever, so to speak. The thought of death frightens people to no end since they are so primitive. There's gotta be something after death, right? There's just gotta!!! Also, people have a hard time believing nature and mankind could do such wondrous things. A pretty cloud in the sky? That's god. People saved from a terrible fire? That's god. A whole bunch of people die in a terrorist attack? Oh, that's man! Of course man could never create something as good as the PC Engine on their own.

The fact is that god doesn't do shit. It is primitive to believe in a god.

Tatsujin · 04/01/2009, 08:35 PM

FACT: nobody knows a shit about the "universe", "infinity", "nothing" and "time" and what is even beyond of those terms. so how we should even know, if there is something higher than us lil' stinkers on a stinking planet?

and religion ≠GOD

termis · 04/01/2009, 08:41 PM

Quote from: guyjin on 04/01/2009, 08:01 PM
Quote from: termis on 04/01/2009, 07:46 PMGoing by what you're stating, I can just as easily use circular logic to claim, "FACT: You can't provide empirical evidence to prove non-existence of god, therefore god must exist."
likewise, i can use that logic to claim "FACT: You can't provide empirical evidence to prove non-existence of unicorn pee, therefore rain must be unicorn pee." the idea that rain is unicorn pee, or that there is a god, requires extraordinary evidence. For ideas like evolution, or the solar system, that evidence was found. in the case of god, it has not.

Right, my whole point was that whole line of reasoning is fallacious to claim something as an absolute fact. You seem to agree with that.

Certain things, I can tell you with absolute certainty. For example, within any certain moment in time (at least in the past and into the foreseeable future), I can prove that I have 10 fingers. I can also disprove that I have 11 fingers. Both are an absolute certainty, unless you disagree with the semantics of the word "finger". I can prove OR disprove any claims of certain number of fingers on my hands.

For a deity, this isn't true. You need a "leap of faith" either way, solely based on what the other camp cannot provide.

guyjin · 04/01/2009, 08:55 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/01/2009, 08:35 PMFACT: nobody knows a shit about the "universe", "infinity", "nothing" and "time" and what is even beyond of those terms. so how we should even know, if there is something higher than us lil' stinkers on a stinking planet?

Religionists have been hiding behind that for centuries. 'god is hiding just beyond what science has discovered' and the like. but we keep turning over those rocks, and we keep not finding god.

Quote from: termis on 04/01/2009, 07:46 PMFor a deity, this isn't true. You need a "leap of faith" either way, solely based on what the other camp cannot provide.

do you believe in witches? Sasquatch? Alien abductions? why not? one side has 'evidence', the other has nothing. why have you made the 'leap of faith' toward one of these sides?

Tatsujin · 04/01/2009, 09:07 PM

Quote from: guyjin on 04/01/2009, 08:55 PMbut we keep turning over those rocks, and we keep not finding god.

we did not even turned over those rocks for one millimeter yet. as i said, we do not know a shit. and even if we cluster all genius brains on earth together and connect those to all the strongest computers we have, we won't found out in a million years, what infinity and time exactly is. those are the two key terms which may could explain us something about the meaning of all live, where it starts and where it ends and how everything's working.

guyjin · 04/01/2009, 09:45 PM

Tatsujin, your argument amounts to this:

you: SGX strider is hiding under a rock!
me: no it isn't. We've turned over lots of rocks, and no strider.
you: but there are more rocks! we have to look under all of them!
me:...

there's no good reason to believe that SGX strider is hiding under a rock. why would it be under a rock? all that's ever been under rocks are dirt, bugs, and more rocks.

likewise, the universe as we know it looks exactly like it should if it had no designer, and discovering more about it probably won't reveal one.

rag-time4 · 04/01/2009, 10:02 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/01/2009, 08:16 PMI like this.

To me, religion usually seems to be a way for people to feel comfortable in their existence. They cannot accept the fact that there is no afterlife. Religion is a means of living forever, so to speak. The thought of death frightens people to no end since they are so primitive. There's gotta be something after death, right? There's just gotta!!!

As a follower of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, I don't believe in life after death

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/01/2009, 08:35 PMFACT: nobody knows a shit about the "universe", "infinity", "nothing" and "time" and what is even beyond of those terms. so how we should even know, if there is something higher than us lil' stinkers on a stinking planet?

and religion ≠GOD

Time = motion

Arjak · 04/01/2009, 10:08 PM

You keep saying that we have no evidence that God exists. Unfortunately, you still haven't disproved God. Your argument is a shoddy piece of crap. You act like you've already turned over all of Tatsujin's 'rocks.' I demand proof that you've done this by photographing the underside of every rock on the planet! It's called the unknown for a reason. Get over it.

And besides, if water WAS Unicorn pee, there would be DNA in it. There, I've just shot your little bullshit argument out of the sky.

This conversation has basically amounted to this:

Guyjin: There is no God.

Me: How do you know?

Guyjin: Well, you can't prove He exists, can you? Ha-HA!

Me: Well you can't prove that he DOESN'T exist! Ha-HA!

Guyjin: So?

Me: SO, you can't prove anything; I can't prove anything. Nothing has been proved.

Guyjin: Well, if God DID exist, everything would be perfect!

Me: How do you know that? He could be making imperfect beings on purpose!

Guyjin: Why?

Me: To test people!

Guyjin: Oh, please! You're full of shit!

Me: You're just upset because you're failing his tests.

Guyjin: SHUT UP, BITCH!

termis · 04/01/2009, 10:08 PM

Quote from: guyjin on 04/01/2009, 08:55 PM
Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/01/2009, 08:35 PMFACT: nobody knows a shit about the "universe", "infinity", "nothing" and "time" and what is even beyond of those terms. so how we should even know, if there is something higher than us lil' stinkers on a stinking planet?
Religionists have been hiding behind that for centuries. 'god is hiding just beyond what science has discovered' and the like. but we keep turning over those rocks, and we keep not finding god.

Quote from: termis on 04/01/2009, 07:46 PMFor a deity, this isn't true. You need a "leap of faith" either way, solely based on what the other camp cannot provide.
do you believe in witches? Sasquatch? Alien abductions? why not? one side has 'evidence', the other has nothing. why have you made the 'leap of faith' toward one of these sides?

Whatever I believe, my opinion on those topics would be based on available information. Your claims of non-existence god being fact is based on unavailable information.

rag-time4 · 04/01/2009, 10:11 PM

Quote from: Arjak on 04/01/2009, 10:08 PMMe: How do you know that? He could be making imperfect beings on purpose!

Guyjin: Why?

Me: To test people!

Guyjin: Oh, please! You're full of shit!

Me: You're just upset because you're failing his tests.

Guyjin: SHUT UP, BITCH!

Sometimes good things and blessings can be tests. The Qur'An says that people often times turn to God only in times of trouble and forget God and are not grateful when things are well.

Arjak · 04/01/2009, 10:14 PM

Wow, I never thought of that! Good call Rag-time!

Tatsujin · 04/01/2009, 10:14 PM

Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 10:02 PMTime = motion

that my dear, is not even close to a explanation about what time is exactly. the only thing what we can do with time is measure the decay of matter resp. the transition into an other state. that is the definiton of our time line and that is what you mean with "move" i guess. but what "time" really is, is a complete other object.

guyjin · 04/01/2009, 10:23 PM

Quote from: Arjak on 04/01/2009, 10:08 PMGuyjin: Well, if God DID exist, everything would be perfect!

Me: How do you know that? He could be making imperfect beings on purpose!

Guyjin: Why?

Me: To test people!

This argument is older than Christianity itself. To quote (allegedly) Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

rag-time4 · 04/01/2009, 10:24 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/01/2009, 10:14 PM
Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 10:02 PMTime = motion
that my dear, is not even close to a explanation about what time is exactly. the only thing what we can do with time is measure the decay of matter resp. the transition into an other state. that is the definiton of our time line and that is what you mean with "move" i guess. but what "time" really is, is a complete other object.

Time is only a measure of motion. Without matter there is nothing by which to measure time.

TheMilford · 04/01/2009, 10:24 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/01/2009, 08:16 PMTo me, religion usually seems to be a way for people to feel comfortable in their existence.

BINGO!

What great things have been accomplished out of being comfortable?

To believe in "god" is to rob yourself of confidence in your own absolute abilities... to deny that we forever live through our own accomplishments. I feel sad for people that feel they cannot give themselves credit and instead see themselves as arbitrators for gods will.

Now, I have had great conversations with religious folk and feel happy for there happiness and some of the amazingly humanitarian things their "churches" have done for the less-fortunate. The compassion of some religious folk can be staggering. But I wish they could realize "god" has nothing to do with it.

Tatsujin · 04/01/2009, 10:26 PM

Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 10:24 PM
Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/01/2009, 10:14 PM
Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 10:02 PMTime = motion
that my dear, is not even close to a explanation about what time is exactly. the only thing what we can do with time is measure the decay of matter resp. the transition into an other state. that is the definiton of our time line and that is what you mean with "move" i guess. but what "time" really is, is a complete other object.
Time is only a measure of motion. Without matter there is nothing by which to measure time.

but its a fact that there is matter. so there is time. but why is there matter and time? when it started, when will it end. does it loop? does it loop for ever? what is infinity?

guyjin · 04/01/2009, 10:40 PM

Quote from: TheMilford on 04/01/2009, 10:24 PMWhat great things have been accomplished out of being comfortable?

Not to rain on your Atheistic parade, but lots. People can't invent penicillin or telephones or the computer if they're just getting by on what they dragged out of the woods today.

termis · 04/01/2009, 10:45 PM

You "atheists" are fundamentally confused here. What does any historical doing. teaching, beliefs, or traditions of any established religion (for you guys, it seems to be Christianity) have to do with somehow believing non-existence of god is a fact?

For the sake of answering why Atheism is true, I don't care if Christianity stunted the growth of human kind for hundreds of years, nor whether radical Islam makes people believe blowing themselves up is a good idea. Any religion-bashing doesn't prove the thread title.

rag-time4 · 04/01/2009, 10:57 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/01/2009, 10:26 PM
Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 10:24 PM
Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/01/2009, 10:14 PM
Quote from: rag-time4 on 04/01/2009, 10:02 PMTime = motion
that my dear, is not even close to a explanation about what time is exactly. the only thing what we can do with time is measure the decay of matter resp. the transition into an other state. that is the definiton of our time line and that is what you mean with "move" i guess. but what "time" really is, is a complete other object.
Time is only a measure of motion. Without matter there is nothing by which to measure time.
but its a fact that there is matter. so there is time. but why is there matter and time? when it started, when will it end. does it loop? does it loop for ever? what is infinity?

I don't believe that these are questions that we are going to be able to answer. To do so would require having knowledge of the nature of the first atom of matter that ever existed, which would require having a way of recording such knowledge.

I have two questions in response

How would knowing the answers to your questions affect your life? Would you live your life differently if you had certain answers as opposed to others?

Joe Redifer · 04/01/2009, 11:32 PM

Worshipping a god is primitive. Look at how we view people from times past who worshiped the Greek gods or went apeshit about burning witches. They were just as steadfast in their beliefs if not even more so that your faith in your god today. What makes you right and them wrong? There are lots of different religions, so how the hell do you know that one one YOU picked is right? They can't all be right. Only one of them will be right, the rest of them are wrong. And you know you picked the correct religion because...? Eventually, maybe in a couple of hundred years, religion as a whole will seem primitive by the masses with only a few crackpots here and there actually practicing it.

You know what else is below retarded on the intellectual scale? Praying. Talk about a waste of time. The vast majority of people pray for selfish things like "OMG please let me get this job" or "OMG please don't let me fall and die on this slippery ice". Some people use prayers less selfishly like "Please o'Lordy let Samantha get that job so she can feed her kids". But what if someone else is praying for their friend to get the same job for the same reason and they both are in the same amount of distress? Who does God listen to? Answer: Neither, because praying is for idiots.

Don't even get me started on the Bible. A talking snake. Noah's Ark. God damn, believing the Bible as literal means you are even more stupid than should be possible. If you believe literally in the bible, you deserve to be shot in the face point blank with a 12-gauge shotgun. The world would be a better place without you.

God or not, answer me this: Would humanity be worse off without religion?

Keranu · 04/01/2009, 11:54 PM

FACT: This thread is a disaster.

TheMilford · 04/01/2009, 11:57 PM

Quote from: guyjin on 04/01/2009, 10:40 PM
Quote from: TheMilford on 04/01/2009, 10:24 PMWhat great things have been accomplished out of being comfortable?
Not to rain on your Atheistic parade, but lots. People can't invent penicillin or telephones or the computer if they're just getting by on what they dragged out of the woods today.

No, no... You missed my point. Complacency was what I was driving at.

TheMilford · 04/02/2009, 12:00 AM

I don't call myself an atheist. That would imply that the concept of "god" would warrant "being against".

I just "am".

Keranu · 04/02/2009, 12:03 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/01/2009, 11:32 PMGod or not, answer me this: Would humanity be worse off without religion?

Human nature is going to cause problems with or without religion. Religion is just a means of bringing this to people's attention

.

Duo_R · 04/02/2009, 12:04 AM

this is a stupid thread, I kinda regret suggesting a "war room" thread now.

Quote from: Keranu on 04/01/2009, 11:54 PMFACT: This thread is a disaster.

TheMilford · 04/02/2009, 12:08 AM

Quote from: Keranu on 04/02/2009, 12:03 AM
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/01/2009, 11:32 PMGod or not, answer me this: Would humanity be worse off without religion?
Human nature is going to cause problems with or without religion. Religion is just a means of bringing this to people's attention .

How so?

TheMilford · 04/02/2009, 12:12 AM

Quote from: Duo_R on 04/02/2009, 12:04 AMthis is a stupid thread, I kinda regret suggesting a "war room" thread now.

Quote from: Keranu on 04/01/2009, 11:54 PMFACT: This thread is a disaster.

I like it!

It's very healthy and quite cathartic to have these sort of free discussions. If I find myself getting upset or offended (which I don't) I would just not participate... I would instruct anybody else to freely do the same.

"Hey doctor, it hurts when I do this..."

"well then don't do that!"

termis · 04/02/2009, 12:16 AM

Quote from: TheMilford on 04/02/2009, 12:00 AMI don't call myself an atheist. That would imply that the concept of "god" would warrant "being against".

I just "am".

No, atheism has nothing to do with being "against" god -- which is what I've been seeing (in misinterpretation of equating god with religion). Atheism believes that god simply "doesn't exist", to which not a single Atheist has been able to prove.

And no need to bring up "You can't prove there IS god" statement -- that's been covered in my earlier posts.

Keranu · 04/02/2009, 12:28 AM

Quote from: TheMilford on 04/02/2009, 12:08 AM
Quote from: Keranu on 04/02/2009, 12:03 AM
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/01/2009, 11:32 PMGod or not, answer me this: Would humanity be worse off without religion?
Human nature is going to cause problems with or without religion. Religion is just a means of bringing this to people's attention .
How so?

Mankind is greedy by nature, you don't need religion to prove that. Walk into a kindergarten class and watch two kids fight over who's Transformers toy is who's. Religion had nothing to do with that mighty Transformers toy and the same thing happens all the time, minus the Transformers copyright

. Sometimes people use religion as a tool for their greed because they can be that low.

TheMilford · 04/02/2009, 12:35 AM

Quote from: termis on 04/02/2009, 12:16 AM
Quote from: TheMilford on 04/02/2009, 12:00 AMI don't call myself an atheist. That would imply that the concept of "god" would warrant "being against".

I just "am".
No, atheism has nothing to do with being "against" god -- which is what I've been seeing (in misinterpretation of equating god with religion). Atheism believes that god simply "doesn't exist", to which not a single Atheist has been able to prove.

And no need to bring up "You can't prove there IS god" statement -- that's been covered in my earlier posts.

I never said I was against "god".... and I never said atheistic meant "against god"... "Atheism" literally means "non-deity-belief". I am "against" religion as a concept and personally do not put any faith in anything. I do not believe "faith" is a useful tool. I would never argue that "god" doesn't exist.... as I have no proof. I only inform my decisions by logical proven science. But intrinsically I am "open" to anything... Agnostic atheist might be a more accurate description of my belief if you must use a label.

Joe Redifer · 04/02/2009, 12:47 AM

Quote from: KeranuFACT: This thread is a disaster.

Oh waah! Go cry about it to Aaron you little pussy face. This is the Fighting Street forum and anything goes. Either quit whining like a little bitch or get out, asshole.

Here's my take on the whole "You need to prove god exists" vs "No you need to prove he doesn't exist, assmunch" debate. And of course, I am always right:

God is an idea. This is a fact. We can not see, hear, smell, taste or touch it. Therefore until god is proven to exist, he simply doesn't or is just a "theory". There is no need to prove god doesn't exist. The only reason we'd need to try and prove that he doesn't exist is if we could see some form of god somewhere and we had to try and prove that it wasn't really there. So the people who say that we must try and prove that god doesn't exist are dead wrong, just like they are about everything else in their lives.

The praying thing I was talking about in my previous post which everyone agreed with reminds me of this joke:

A Scottish guy was running late and was having extreme difficulties finding a parking space. He was getting desperate.
So he looks up towards the sky and says "God please, I'll give up drinking alcohol if you just please let me find a parking space!"
As the Scottish guy turns the corner, lo and behold is an empty space where he can park his car!
He looks up towards the sky again and says "Nevermind God, I found one!"

Duo_R · 04/02/2009, 12:48 AM

Milford, I had a discussion like this in the shout box once, and the problem is it get's NO WHERE! No one is going to change perspective, people are going to rave and rant and have differences, but in the end it is all a waste of time. No one is going to argue the atheist into believing in God, and vice versa.

Quote from: TheMilford on 04/02/2009, 12:12 AM
Quote from: Duo_R on 04/02/2009, 12:04 AMthis is a stupid thread, I kinda regret suggesting a "war room" thread now.

Quote from: Keranu on 04/01/2009, 11:54 PMFACT: This thread is a disaster.
I like it!

It's very healthy and quite cathartic to have these sort of free discussions. If I find myself getting upset or offended (which I don't) I would just not participate... I would instruct anybody else to freely do the same.

"Hey doctor, it hurts when I do this..."

"well then don't do that!"

TheMilford · 04/02/2009, 01:02 AM

Quote from: Duo_R on 04/02/2009, 12:48 AMMilford, I had a discussion like this in the shout box once, and the problem is it get's NO WHERE! No one is going to change perspective, people are going to rave and rant and have differences, but in the end it is all a waste of time. No one is going to argue the atheist into believing in God, and vice versa.

The discussion for me is not a means-to-an-end.

The discussion itself is the cathartic and rewarding experience. I intend to change no minds... but minds may be changed, most likely my own.

Ever read any Camus?

Keranu · 04/02/2009, 01:14 AM

If people like Joe think praying is stupid, that's fine. But if others like doing it, then why criticize it? Praying is like a form of meditation and as such gives the person a nice, brief escape from reality and helps them focus on life. Some of you are probably thinking "bullshit", but give meditation a serious chance sometime; you might be surprised how relaxed you end up feeling.

On a side note, it's very interesting to see how similar the Islamic prayer is to various yoga stances. You could say that both are activating your inner chakras.

Keranu · 04/02/2009, 01:18 AM

Quote from: TheMilford on 04/02/2009, 12:12 AM
Quote from: Duo_R on 04/02/2009, 12:04 AMthis is a stupid thread, I kinda regret suggesting a "war room" thread now.

Quote from: Keranu on 04/01/2009, 11:54 PMFACT: This thread is a disaster.
I like it!

It's very healthy and quite cathartic to have these sort of free discussions. If I find myself getting upset or offended (which I don't) I would just not participate... I would instruct anybody else to freely do the same.

"Hey doctor, it hurts when I do this..."

"well then don't do that!"

I love having mature interfaith (and inter-lack-of-faith?) dialogues too. I just say a thread like this is a disaster because there are so many different opinions flinging food at each other that it's hard to keep up with everything.