PCE, SNES and Genesis Screen Comparison.

[Keranu]

Many years ago, I had a few comparison screenshots between every game that was on both Genesis and TG16 (minus most CD games), as well as a text file detailing the difference between the two versions, so I could prove to my cousin that Turbo kicked Sega's ass! I wish I still had it in all of it's hilariously biased glory.

[esteban]

These dudes kick ass:


These dudes lick ass:


Winner:
PCE

[Keranu]

My thoughts exactly when I saw that!

[Ceti Alpha]

Many years ago, I had a few comparison screenshots between every game that was on both Genesis and TG16 (minus most CD games), as well as a text file detailing the difference between the two versions, so I could prove to my cousin that Turbo kicked Sega's ass! I wish I still had it in all of it's hilariously biased glory.

As do I...as do I....

These dudes kick ass:


These dudes lick ass:


Winner:
PCE

Yeah, there's no comparison here.

[awack]

Looking at the Dracula x/Dracula xx screens again, i think i could have picked better ones for the snes, they look crappy compared to the pce screens.

World heroes 2, the pc engine version usually has a different set of back ground tiles for the left and right side of the screen, it also has more animation in the bg, birds, bats, etc.

World Heroes 2
PC Engine	SNES

[Tatsujin]

so much infinity LOLs @ SNES version

[Keranu]

Wow, the sprites in the PCE one are gigantic (okay, maybe the background characters in the PCE version of the last screenshot are a little too tall )! I never realized how good looking of a game World Heroes is on PCE (I've also never played it). There are a very few little detail touches I like more in maybe two of the SNES sprites, but other than that this is a mighty hands down win for PCE!

[rag-time4]

Wow, the sprites in the PCE one are gigantic (okay, maybe the background characters in the PCE version of the last screenshot are a little too tall )! I never realized how good looking of a game World Heroes is on PCE (I've also never played it). There are a very few little detail touches I like more in maybe two of the SNES sprites, but other than that this is a mighty hands down win for PCE!

Which details of the SNES version stood out Keranu?

[Tatsujin]

what i also recognised while playing WH, the PCE does not have the linescrolling the arcade had

[Keranu]

Wow, the sprites in the PCE one are gigantic (okay, maybe the background characters in the PCE version of the last screenshot are a little too tall )! I never realized how good looking of a game World Heroes is on PCE (I've also never played it). There are a very few little detail touches I like more in maybe two of the SNES sprites, but other than that this is a mighty hands down win for PCE!

Which details of the SNES version stood out Keranu?

The football player's pants are a little more cleared up in the SNES one (I still like the way they look in the PCE, which I'm sure is more arcade accurate), and the overall design of the karate chick in the sixth screenshot.

[awack]

what i also recognised while playing WH, the PCE does not have the linescrolling the arcade had

Its been a while since i played the arcade World Heroes 2 but the pce one has the line scrolling floors like the snes port has, I'm guessing the arcade has more.

[TurboXray]

what i also recognised while playing WH, the PCE does not have the linescrolling the arcade had

I just played through it. It has line scrolls. One level didn't. Just how much of the game did you play?

[Tatsujin]

it's been a very while ago i played it the last time. but when i watched at those two screens, it doesn't look that it is showing up with linscrolling:



so i thought, that there is no such thing as linescrolling from my remembering.

[Joe Redifer]

The PCE version wins, but the SNES floor in the 3rd set of pics definitely wins since it has actual perspective to it.

[Tatsujin]

since it has actual perspective to it. 

that's what i meant with the missing linescrolling (like in SFII') in the pce version.

[TurboXray]

since it has actual perspective to it. 

that's what i meant with the missing linescrolling (like in SFII') in the pce version.

But that stage still has line scrolling, regardless of the way the floor was drawn.

[Joe Redifer]

That's gotta look crazy-odd.

[spenoza]

Y'know, I wonder what component of the SNES pics is the resolution/adapted graphics and what part is simply the result of a bad port job.

[shubibiman]

Colorwise, the SNES versions are always better but what I don't like with SNES games colors is the paleness of the colors.

[Ceti Alpha]

The World Heroes 2 comparison is no comparison. The PCE pwns.

[awack]

Art of Fighting.

PC Engine	SNES

[Tatsujin]

there is no comparison for all the ACD NG Fighters. not just that the pictures are looking much better on the PCE, also the action, BGM, FX dynamic scrolling etc. are far superior to any module ports on SFC or MD.

[TurboXray]

 The only thing is; you're comparing straight RGB of SNES shots with altered RGB of PCE shots. Run the screen shots from ME through photoshop with the "Posterize" option set to parameter/value of 8. That'll correct the color differences you have in ME's settings.

example:
ME

pcedev.net/pics/CD_E4FBF03F-016.png

True/straight RGB

pcedev.net/pics/CD_E4FBF03F-016_correction.png

 From your pics, it looks like only the Reds where changed in your ME color profile/settings. Red cut. The straight RGB pics for PCE are a little warmer.

[awack]

Chiki Chiki Boys.

PC Engine	Genesis

[awack]

The only thing is; you're comparing straight RGB of SNES shots with altered RGB of PCE shots. Run the screen shots from ME through photoshop with the "Posterize" option set to parameter/value of 8. That'll correct the color differences you have in ME's settings.

I looked in the ME settings and saw that the color was set slightly lower than it should be, the left screen below shows the adjusted color, the shots i have taken so far, are closer to composite, i would love to be able to get the genesis and snes shots as close to composite as i can  but i dont know how to approximate that.

[Ceti Alpha]

For a split second, from the first screen comparison of Chiki Chiki Boys, it was looking like the Genny was going to win it, but not so much. The PCE version is more colourful with better detailing.

[spenoza]

We should get a few duds in here, too. I kinda wonder if we're not hand-picking the PCE winners, in a sense.

[nat]

Chiki Chiki Boys looks ridiculous all smooshed horizontally like that. I know that's the "native resolution" but that's not what you see when you play it on your TV.

[TurboXray]

Chiki Chiki Boys looks ridiculous all smooshed horizontally like that. I know that's the "native resolution" but that's not what you see when you play it on your TV.

That's right. PCE low res has a pixel aspect ratio of 1.125 and Genesis high res mode has a pixel aspect ratio of 0.9. Multiply the horizontal res by their counter parts to get correct image size. (Make sure the images are in 24bit RGB mode).

pcedev.net/pics/ChikiChikiBoysJ_012.png
pcedev.net/pics/CD_FA4EF830-018.png

 Both images are 33% larger because showing the Genesis pic at 0.9 aspect ratio in the native screen shot res would have discarded detail/pixels. The formula is X=X * (scale_factor * pixel_aspect_ratio) and Y=Y*scale_factor. Scale_factor was 1.33.

[nat]

Much better. I think any further screen comparisons should be adjusted like this to make reference more accurate. Nobody plays Turbo games using a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio, so showing comparisons shots that way seems stupid.

[CrackTiger]

We should get a few duds in here, too. I kinda wonder if we're not hand-picking the PCE winners, in a sense.

These aren't all duds, but they're all not hand-picked winners. They're also ALL stolen from hardcoregaming101-

Much better. I think any further screen comparisons should be adjusted like this to make reference more accurate. Nobody plays Turbo games using a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio, so showing comparisons shots that way seems stupid.

There are factors other than aspect ratio to compare when judging strictly by screen shots, which can't be accurately judged when the images are re-sized. Otherwise we might as well only use only shots captured from hardware. I think that any re-sized side-by-sides should be accompanied by the original shots, but they're only necessary when two versions have radically different resolutions and/or some noticeably different proportions of various elements. It's not like our computer monitors and the resolutions they're set at are perfectly proportioned.

Chiki Chiki Boys PCE looks weird because the developer adjusted the aspect ratio of some elements while leaving others pixel per pixel from the arcade.

[nat]

There are factors other than aspect ratio to compare when judging strictly by screen shots, which can't be accurately judged when the images are re-sized.

Like?

Otherwise we might as well only use only shots captured from hardware. I think that any re-sized side-by-sides should be accompanied by the original shots, but they're only necessary when two versions have radically different resolutions and/or some noticeably different proportions of various elements.

Which is virtually every Turbo game that uses the lower resolution. The developers knew these images were going to be stretched to fill the TV screen.

[TurboXray]

I think that any re-sized side-by-sides should be accompanied by the original shots, but they're only necessary when two versions have radically different resolutions and/or some noticeably different proportions of various elements.

That's reasonable. Showing both (if needed) should be done. I kept the pics small for bandwidth reasons of the thread, but if we wanted unfiltered scaled pics of both (for aspect ratio correction), the final res would have to be something like 864xYYY for 'nearest neighbor'.

Chiki Chiki Boys PCE looks weird because the developer adjusted the aspect ratio of some elements while leaving others pixel per pixel from the arcade.

I updated the image for the PCE one. I had accidentally used the same vertical value as the Genesis pic. The updated pic is less 'fat'.

[awack]

We should get a few duds in here, too. I kinda wonder if we're not hand-picking the PCE winners, in a sense.

In a way i am, I'm picking the better looking games from 93 to 95, but i saw a pattern as well and my next two games were going to be Parodius and Strider. If there is a game that looks better on the snes or genesis post 93, let me know, thats what ill do next.

Chiki Chiki Boys looks ridiculous all smooshed horizontally like that. I know that's the "native resolution" but that's not what you see when you play it on your TV.

Some want the pictures altered, others want them untouched, i understand your point but lets take chiki boys, not only would i have to do every thing I'm already doing but i would have to change the resolution of both the pce and genesis game.
If we really want the shots to appear as they do on a TV we would also need to adjust the color, which i think is as important as the aspect, because none of these screens look like this on a TV in relation to one another(saturation,hue shifting etc)

What i could do in the future is to take fewer shots and adjust the resolution of one of the games for a more accurate comparison or have some one else alter them and have two sets like has been mentioned.

[Keranu]

Wow, for the first two screenshots of Chiki Chiki Boys, I thought it was going to be a clear win for the Genesis, but after that, the PCE shots tend to look significantly better.

[nat]

What i could do in the future is to take fewer shots and adjust the resolution of one of the games for a more accurate comparison or have some one else alter them and have two sets like has been mentioned.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. When both the games use the same resolution (or close to the same) like the Castlevania pics earlier in the thread, changing the res is kind of pointless. But with a game like Chiki, where the aspect difference is so drastic, it really is needed.

[TurboXray]

Wow, for the first two screenshots of Chiki Chiki Boys, I thought it was going to be a clear win for the Genesis, but after that, the PCE shots tend to look significantly better.

Are you sure we're looking at the same pics?

 The first pic.

 PCE version: the water fall looks better, the far back stalactites and stalagmites have more colors, the leaves on the side, and some additional tiles. Genesis version: very basic/tiled water fall and rocks for that column, missing column with leaves, less color overall.

 Second pic.

 PCE version: just the whole back ground image of the broken temple thingy. Much more details and colors. More colors on the boss too.
 Genesis version: reduced and redrawn tile set of the temple - very basic, lacks detail and colors. Colors on the boss are missing.

 I was surprised by this game comparison. From memory, I thought the Genesis on par - but even single pic the PCE version looks much better.

What i could do in the future is to take fewer shots and adjust the resolution of one of the games for a more accurate comparison or have some one else alter them and have two sets like has been mentioned.

Nah, keep doing lots of shots like that. Any one of us can alter them for you afterwards if needed.

[CrackTiger]

There are factors other than aspect ratio to compare when judging strictly by screen shots, which can't be accurately judged when the images are re-sized.

Like?

Like the actual graphics (shading, detail, color, etc). All you can judge from distorted images with added artifacts is the general shapes of things and which general objects are or aren't included.

Here's a section of the Mega Drive Chiki Chiki Boys shot. The left pic is the raw emulated screen shot, the right is the aspect ratio corrected shot that Tom made. Each one features the exact same section, enlarged four times to the nearest neighbor.



The full Mega Drive shot uncropped, has 35 colors in the original, and 18900 colors in the 4:3 aspect ratio pic.

Otherwise we might as well only use only shots captured from hardware. I think that any re-sized side-by-sides should be accompanied by the original shots, but they're only necessary when two versions have radically different resolutions and/or some noticeably different proportions of various elements.

Which is virtually every Turbo game that uses the lower resolution. The developers knew these images were going to be stretched to fill the TV screen.

I don't think that any SNES comparison shots will be any higher resolution than 256 wide PCE screen shots. As for the handful of games that are on both PCE and MD, many of the MD games are also 256 pixels wide.

People who say that all developers made games with the same set destination display method in mind give them too much credit. Especially with PCE games, developers picked and chose various ways to depict various aspects of each game. Chiki Chiki Boys is a good example. Much of it was squished to the PCE port's resolution's proportionate size, while other parts were left pixel for pixel the same as the 384 x 224 pixels arcade version. In the end you'll always have parts of a screen that aren't displayed the way it was originally intended. But that's not always a bad thing.

The other thing is that there is no standard display mode for platforms like NES, Genesis and SNES hardware. Each hardware revision displays a different picture (& sometimes sound) and they have different available output methods, ranging from RF-only to RGB. Dithering is the most common aspect argued to be designed strictly for RF display, but most 16-bit era arcade games use it even though they're all intended for RGB display.

[awack]

Nah, keep doing lots of shots like that. Any one of us can alter them for you afterwards if needed.

Sounds good.

Parodius, the graphics in this game were not done as well as in other arcade ports such as chiki chiki boys, forgoten worlds and dynasty warriors on the pc engine.

PC Engine	SNES

[Ceti Alpha]

Yup. The SNES is definitely up on the PCE here.

[spenoza]

For Parodius the SNES version definitely has the edge, though I think the PCE keeps up quite well. There were no scenes where I was left thinking "Ugh, the PCE graphics in this are inferior in every way!" Just in most ways.

[Tatsujin]

i knew that chiki on the PCE looks so much more awesome than the MD port. unfortunately it doesn't also play so much more awesome. it's kinda gameplay wreck

[Keranu]

The Parodius comparison is extremely interesting. I wouldn't say the SNES is a huge advancement, but what's interesting is how well the PCE's limited palette stands up to the "full" color usage in the SNES port. It's not like a poor Genesis port where you can see obvious color sacrificies.

[Joe Redifer]

Actually it is, look at the 4th set of pics.  Ug.

[Keranu]

Actually it is, look at the 4th set of pics.  Ug.

Assuming you're talking about the lack of purple shading on the castle, I think they did that for artistic reasons more than anything else. I really doubt they didn't have similar shades of purple available.

[Joe Redifer]

I think they did that for artistic reasons more than anything else.

If you say so.  Looks much worse nonetheless.

[Keranu]

I agree, even though I think the purple was a bit too drastic of a change.

[awack]

Raiden, up to the end of stage 5.

PC Engine	SNES

[termis]

It's a close one.  The colors look better blended in and less grainy on the SNES shots, though PCE's colors are more vibrant.  The SNES version also has some weird things going on with some of the shades being all straight-edged in some random places (like in the trees in the first pic).

[esteban]

Having played both versions, PCE Raiden is the better game. Not sure how the screenshots will stack up, though. PCE has nice little touches, attention to detail, IMO.