PCE, SNES and Genesis Screen Comparison.

Joe Redifer · 04/05/2009, 11:15 AM

You forgot the MD version.

Tatsujin · 04/05/2009, 11:37 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/05/2009, 11:15 AMYou forgot the MD version.

which is just a little flyspeck against the pce version.

even the snes version looks ok on the pure visual comparison level, it's far inferior to the pce one for all the rest.

Joe Redifer · 04/05/2009, 12:08 PM

Both versions look pretty much the same, more or less with neither having any advantage EXCEPT the SNES version having multiple layers of scrolling, therefore it wins.

Tatsujin · 04/05/2009, 12:16 PM

now if you say so

spenoza · 04/05/2009, 12:26 PM

The SNES version has very symmetrical explosion marks on the ground. The PCE's marks look better. Also, the squared-off shadows in the SNES version look weird.

The SNES definitely has the coloration/shading edge, but the PCE images sometimes look more interesting or detailed. Graphically I think it looks like a wash.

Tatsujin · 04/05/2009, 12:41 PM

anyway you need to see those games in motion, and there the pce is far superior. imo from the gameplay point of view, the pce even surpases the arcade.

Ceti Alpha · 04/05/2009, 01:31 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/05/2009, 12:41 PManyway you need to see those games in motion, and there the pce is far superior. imo from the gameplay point of view, the pce even surpases the arcade.

I agree that the PCE port of Raiden surpasses the Genny and SNES ports, but I don't know about the arcade. The arcade version has tate, which is a huge thing for me, and the sound effects are much better. Plus, there is the two player co-op in the arcade. That being said, the PCE Raiden is the closest to the arcade I've ever played (I haven't played the PS1 port).

TurboXray · 04/05/2009, 02:00 PM

We need the Genesis pics up there!

esteban · 04/05/2009, 04:10 PM

PCE Raiden mightily crushes SNES and Genny ports. Easily.

Those folks just did a fantastic job porting Raiden to PCE.

But, I digress, let's get back to comparing the screenshots...

I am annoyed that the otherwise superior PCE World Heroes stages are marred by some silly desire to slap an ugly "WH" in spots (i.e. on the tent).

nat · 04/05/2009, 04:30 PM

I think the Turbo version of Raiden wins in a landslide, based purely on the merits in the screenshots. The SNES version may technically have a higher color count, but the Turbo version uses better and more varied colors, if that makes any sense. See the second set of pics for a great example of this. In the SNES shot the tank or whatever the hell it is is the same color as the tracks whereas the Turbo uses unique coloring. See again the buildings in the 5th set. Etc.

Keranu · 04/05/2009, 04:50 PM

The Raiden comparison is yet another very interesting comparison because of the color differences between the two systems. I tempted to say that the more drab and washed out colors of the SNES version are more fitting here (one noticeable thing to point out is the street in the fifth screenshot, where light off shades of pink and green are used in the PCE version instead). Sometimes the vibrantness of the PCE versions looks cooler though, like the eigth and ninth screenshots.

CrackTiger · 04/05/2009, 05:55 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 04/05/2009, 04:50 PMThe Raiden comparison is yet another very interesting comparison because of the color differences between the two systems. I tempted to say that the more drab and washed out colors of the SNES version are more fitting here (one noticeable thing to point out is the street in the fifth screenshot, where light off shades of pink and green are used in the PCE version instead). Sometimes the vibrantness of the PCE versions looks cooler though, like the eigth and ninth screenshots.

You mean as opposed to the paler pink and green used in the SNES version.

That's one aspect I agree with, although I'm guessing that the colors look better on real hardware (similar pale shades were available on PCE, it makes no sense for them to use neon shades).

To me pretty much all the PCE shots look better, vibrancy aside just because of the general coloring. The SNES version was colored like a poorly done Genesis game, where much of the detail and objects disappear within similar shades of the same color. Like the crashed ship at the top right corner of the second shot and the tank stuff Nat mentioned. The 8th SNES screen could be a Gameboy screen shot run through a Super Gameboy.

Even the shot you mentioned still looks better on PCE because 90% of the screen of the SNES version is grayish green/greenish gray. From the screen shots given, it looks like the entire SNES version is colored with strictly greyish shades of pale green and brown with grays inbetween(even the water). The red player ship actually stands out in every shot as being pretty much the only thing not gray, green or brown other than tiny highlights on random objects.

Now I'm curious to see how the arcade was colored. I'm also guessing that the Genesis version has to look better overall than the SNES version, unless it's a terrible port.

awack · 04/05/2009, 06:52 PM

PCE left, SNES right GENESIS bottom.

Ceti Alpha · 04/05/2009, 06:56 PM

1st Place: PCE
2nd Place: SNES
3rd Place: Genesis

Edit: I just noticed that the SNES port doesn't have the green thrusters, just a lame white. FAIL! That's almost enough to disqualify it from the competition.

spenoza · 04/05/2009, 08:56 PM

The Arcade version has lots of shades of beige, green, and brown. It's all about the shading and the detail, and the animated details, in the Arcade version.

CrackTiger · 04/05/2009, 09:30 PM

The Genesis version looks like a sloppy port of the SNES version. I just checked out screen shots and video of the arcade version and from what I saw it looks like the coloring is most like the PCE version, with subtler shades like the SNES version. I don't know why the SNES developer decided to change colors for the worse while still keeping a high number onscreen.

Are any of the details missing from the HuCard version? Does the CD version use sampled sfx?

awack · 04/05/2009, 09:40 PM

QuoteAre any of the details missing from the HuCard version? Does the CD version use sampled sfx?

I don't think there are any missing details, the sound fx have been changed in the cd version and they sound great, different sfx for ground, air and bomb explosions and other sounds as well.

Quoteanimated details

This is were the pc engine shines the most, with the genesis coming in second.

Tatsujin · 04/05/2009, 10:31 PM

Quote from: guest on 04/05/2009, 09:30 PMThe Genesis version looks like a sloppy port of the SNES version.

yeah..they just reduced the color to its possible minimum. but as a return, they increased the enemy and bullets on screen on the MD side.

anyway, the pce combines that all together and is still more arcade accurate.

Keranu · 04/05/2009, 11:11 PM

The water in the Genesis screenshot is a joke.

Ceti Alpha · 04/06/2009, 10:17 AM

Quote from: Keranu on 04/05/2009, 11:11 PMThe water in the Genesis screenshot is a joke.

Agreed. It's the weak sauce.

Tatsujin · 04/06/2009, 10:32 AM

the whole game on the MD is a joke. and the almost 1/3 space on the right side, wasted for (hi-)score, lives and bombs is even more a joke.

Ceti Alpha · 04/06/2009, 10:42 AM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/06/2009, 10:32 AMthe whole game on the MD is a joke. and the almost 1/3 space on the right side, wasted for (hi-)score, lives and bombs is even more a joke.

That sidebar is nothing compared to the Jaguar monstrosity. That sidebar is an abomination, plain and simple.

Tatsujin · 04/06/2009, 11:36 AM

right you are. but the MD version really doesn't show anything appealing, except for the more robust action than the SFC version. the palette is an assault on the eyes par excellence.

Ceti Alpha · 04/06/2009, 11:43 AM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/06/2009, 11:36 AMright you are. but the MD version really doesn't show anything appealing, except for the more robust action than the SFC version. the palette is an assault on the eyes par excellence.

I think the Genny Raiden is best viewed using the 3D SMS glasses.

awack · 04/06/2009, 11:51 AM

Valis IV vs Super Valis.

PC Engine	SNES

Ill go ahead and add two more shots of M&M III unaltered, ill organize this stuff one day.

PC Engine	SNES

Ceti Alpha · 04/06/2009, 11:55 AM

Tough call.

Joe Redifer · 04/06/2009, 12:26 PM

I agree. Some of the screens look nearly identical. I like the layout of the score/power/etc of the PCE version better than the SNES version, that's for sure. However the SNES likely has multiple layers of scrolling. It also looks like it has a pointless transparency effect in one of the screens and I just don't like the way that looks. I am amazed at how different some of the shots are as well. the SNES version cannot read my backup saves and tell me how much space I have left so the PCE version wins.

CrackTiger · 04/06/2009, 07:37 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/06/2009, 12:26 PMI agree. Some of the screens look nearly identical. I like the layout of the score/power/etc of the PCE version better than the SNES version, that's for sure. However the SNES likely has multiple layers of scrolling. It also looks like it has a pointless transparency effect in one of the screens and I just don't like the way that looks. I am amazed at how different some of the shots are as well. the SNES version cannot read my backup saves and tell me how much space I have left so the PCE version wins.

Both versions have layered bgs. The SNES version usually adds some extra layering to shared bgs, otherwise unique bgs have unique parallax effects. What the screen shots don't show is how bad each stage of the SNES version recycles the same tiles, so what you see in one screen is usually all you'll see the entire stage. The SNES stages are also pretty short. The PCE version has way more variety and the stages are much longer, spanning several different areas. The SNES version uses a mosaic effect instead of fading in/out of each area. There are a few more "flat" bgs in the PCE version (the further you advance, the less parallax there is). But there are also at least that many extra stages, let alone unique areas and they usually have various animated effects.

Joe Redifer · 04/06/2009, 07:45 PM

QuoteThe SNES version uses a mosaic effect instead of fading in/out of each area.

I really dislike that effect. Fades for the win!

TR0N · 04/06/2009, 11:01 PM

Quote from: awack on 04/06/2009, 11:51 AMValis IV vs Super Valis.
PC Engine SNES

Hands down i still,prefer the pce valis IV due to the simple fact you have all 3 characters.Beside it's own levels for wich the snes version lacks.

awack · 04/07/2009, 02:25 AM

I was going to do Golden Axe but i couldn't find my pce copy, i don't really want to play that poop any way, instead....Vailis I.

PC Engine	Genesis

Tatsujin · 04/07/2009, 02:38 AM

pce wins househigh!! alone due to the fact, that the platforms are designed in a perstective view, while the MD ones are just 8-bit flat.

ParanoiaDragon · 04/07/2009, 02:40 AM

Tatsujin mentioned that Chiki Chiki for PCE plays badly on the PCE compared to the MD version, but, I think it plays just the same as the MD version. I have both, & they feel the same too me, it's not like comparing the choppiness of the PCE Strider to the smoothness of the MD version.

As for Raiden, the SNES version looks like crap compared to the SNES version, & I mean that! I figured that everone here would have the same opinion, when looking at those pics. The gfx on the SNES one of extremely plain & boring to me, not just the lack of vibrant colors, but, the lack of details that the PCE version kept. The only things going on for the SNES are the 2 player co-op(which is nice) & the paralax(which is minimal IIRC).

Valis 1, the Genny version, for the most part, is alot plainer looking. There are parts where things are done differently, can't quite say what looks cooler in some of the areas, however, ofcoarse the MD one has paralax, which after Valis 4, you would've thought that Valis 1 would've had as well.

Joe Redifer · 04/07/2009, 03:17 AM

While there are elements of the Genesis/MD version that I like, the PC Engine version really wins by a landslide here. The PCE version is much brighter and pleasing to the eye. What the screens here do not show is how dreadfully slow the MD version is. The PCE version also seems to control a tad better and is just more fun as well. Let's not forget that the PCE version shows you a teenage girl's undies!!!!!!!! The MD version does not.

I know which version gets my money!!!!! Oooooohhh!!!!!

Tatsujin · 04/07/2009, 05:51 AM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/07/2009, 02:40 AMTatsujin mentioned that Chiki Chiki for PCE plays badly on the PCE compared to the MD version, but, I think it plays just the same as the MD version. I have both, & they feel the same too me, it's not like comparing the choppiness of the PCE Strider to the smoothness of the MD version.

yeah.. i didn't mean that the MD version is much better in that categorie, just that the PCE wasn't much improved, compared to the graphics. but the pce version is little bit weaker in technical aspecs. at least that's what i feel.

FraGMarE · 04/07/2009, 07:40 AM

I think the best way to compare PC-Engine screenshots to Genesis screenshots is to adjust them to appear as they would on a normal NTSC/PAL TV screen in 4:3 ratio, scanlines, etc. I've made an example out of a couple of screenshots i took of Afterburner II from each system below...

mindrec.com/~fragmare/ab2_pce_tv01.png <- PC-Engine
mindrec.com/~fragmare/ab2_gen_tv01.png <- Genesis

Tatsujin · 04/07/2009, 07:46 AM

why can't i see all the pix you hosted on mindrec?

FraGMarE · 04/07/2009, 07:55 AM

the ".../~fragmare/" directory on mindrec.com is private and not accessible to the public. I can, however, link to individual files within that directory at my whim.

Tatsujin · 04/07/2009, 08:31 AM

but all you pictures, including your avatar, are not showing up on my pc?

FraGMarE · 04/07/2009, 09:07 AM

No clue about that. Maybe there's a broken router between mindrec.com and your machine somewhere. Maybe you could try a tracert.exe or something?

Tatsujin · 04/07/2009, 09:19 AM

since i also can't access mindrec.com, I tracer'd it and it stopped here:

r-1.core04.st1.rosehosting.com [206.196.99.250]

after that only timeouts.

awack · 04/07/2009, 11:18 AM

Ghouls 'n Ghosts / Dai Makaimura.

tcrf.net/Daimakaimura_(SuperGrafx)
archive.org/details/DaimakaimuraSuperGrafxHiResScans/
pcengine-fx.com/reviews/duomazov/daimakaimura-ghouls-n-ghosts.html

SuperGrafx	Genesis











LICENSED BY CAPCOM CAPCOM Wed.26.10.1988 1990 NEC AVENUE * Special Thanks * Alfa System HUDSON SOFT 1990/03/17 FOR SUPER GRAFX! PC-Engine SUPER GRAFX staff DESIGN Ichizawa Kuwahara Matsuda Okada SOUND Takimoto Hoshi PROGRAM YAV F.K HaHi

Strider is next, which I think looks better overall on the Genesis.

Ceti Alpha · 04/07/2009, 11:29 AM

Hard to tell which Afterburner is better. A matter of preference there, I would say. Now, the Supergrafx GnG is superior to the Genny's.

I just wish the PCE had a Ghosts 'n Goblins.

Tatsujin · 04/07/2009, 11:46 AM

daimakaimura on the md is such out of competition. the only thing which looks better, is the grass in the first stage.

even the sgfx daimakaimura is not arcade like, so it's still milles closer to it, than the md version.

NecroPhile · 04/07/2009, 12:04 PM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/07/2009, 02:40 AMAs for Raiden, the SNES version looks like crap compared to the SNES version, & I mean that!

Now who can argue with such flawless logic? It's so damn shitty, comparisons are entirely unnecessary.

TurboXray · 04/07/2009, 12:36 PM

Awack, are you manually cropping those SGX pics to 320 res or is ME doing that ? If ME's doing it, then it's stretching out the image when you're playing in game/emu.

Thought I mention that PCE/SGX mid res mode has a pixel aspect ratio of 0.839 (Genesis high res is 0.9).

The original SGX shot (342x232):
pcedev.net/pics/comparison/GnG/557_org.png

And both SGX and Genesis pics aspect ratio fixed:
pcedev.net/pics/comparison/GnG/557.png
pcedev.net/pics/comparison/GnG/DaiMakaimuraJ_000.png

A much slimmer Arthur on the SGX version like the arcade version

Joe Redifer · 04/07/2009, 12:41 PM

First off, those pics of Afterburner look FAR too dim. They look much brighter on a real TV so I don't think that is a good way to display them. The way Awak is doing it is just fine (aspect ratio issues aside which we can correct ourselves if needed).

Secondly, although this particular comparison has been beaten to death, Ghouls & Ghosts on the SuperGrafx definitely gets points for including all of the BGs and slightly more arcade-faithful artwork. However level 3 in the Genesis looks MUCH better when you are scrolling upwards and I do not like the way the trees blow in level 1 of the SuperGrafx version. The level 4 boss on the SuperGrafx version seems to have odd/missing tiles in the far BG. Neither version seems to show the defeated boss as in the arcade.

Both games are good. I wonder how the Genesis version would have looked if it were 8 MEGA POWER like the SuperGrafx version.

Also, when adjusting images to 4:3, one must account for the overscan border that the emulators rarely display. Only with these borders in place can you get the true shape of how it would appear on a 4:3 TV. Stretching a 320x224 image to 320 x 240 would give artificial results, for example.

TurboXray · 04/07/2009, 01:03 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/07/2009, 12:41 PMAlso, when adjusting images to 4:3, one must account for the overscan border that the emulators rarely display. Only with these borders in place can you get the true shape of how it would appear on a 4:3 TV. Stretching a 320x224 image to 320 x 240 would give artificial results, for example.

For Genesis, it is showing overscan in the emulator. The edges of the 320 wide image is in overscan area. 320 pixels across is it. You can't show more(have graphics) in the clipped areas beyond that. For PCE/SGX, it can. It can show data right up to either end of the active scanline - but rarely does and as there's no point in doing so. The 342 res is the same width as the 320 on the Genesis viewable area, the SGX game just added additional software clipping (not sure why, it doesn't do anything). 256 pixel mode of either system is also the same width as 320 Genesis and 342 PCE/SGX.

awack · 04/07/2009, 01:54 PM

Quote from: TurboXray on 04/07/2009, 12:36 PMAwack, are you manually cropping those SGX pics to 320 res or is ME doing that? If ME's doing it, then it's stretching out the image when you're playing in game/emu.

No, those are untouched, it's all MagicEngine...I see what you mean though.

Strider Hiryu
PC Engine Arcade CD-ROM²		Genesis [Cart]
RGB MagicEngine	YUV Mednafen 2021 (true-color)	RGB/Non-issue

Special Bonus: Iconic Metal Monkey
Capcom Arcade	PC Engine Arcade CD-ROM² (YUV)	Genesis [Cart]

PC Engine Arcade CD-ROM²	Genesis [Cart]
YUV Mednafen 2021 (true-color)	RGB/Non-issue

Ceti Alpha · 04/07/2009, 02:10 PM

I know the PCE port of Strider is supposed to play like crap, but only judging by the screenshots, the PCE stands up. I can't say it's better than the Genny, but I do prefer the look of some of the PCE screenshots over the Genny, and vice versa.

For an Arcade Card game they really could have done a lot better with Strider. I know the PCE port has some cool cinemas and sequences that do show off some of the Arcade Card's capabilities, but the actual game looks like a SuperCD.

This thread is just driving the point home that the system specs don't matter as much as the effort and ability of the developers. Though, of course, each of the 16 bit systems do have their specialties.