Street Fighter II CE: Why on a Hu-Card instead of a CD?

[jboypacman]

I was playing SF II last night and got to thinking...."Why didn't they put this game on a Super CD or better yet a Arcade CD?".

This was something i was curious about and while i enjoy the Hu-Card version am betting a CD version could of turned out fantastic if done right.

[Sinistron]

It's so much sweeter to play this without CD load times- and just because it's the highest meg hucard game makes it extra special.

[kitkit.com]

I also agree that I have better experience playing it on Hucard card- no loading time at least.  Maybe NEC didn't want to make the same mistake as Fighting Street.

[jboypacman]

I didn't think about the load times a CD would have i could see NEC wanting to avoid this and going the Hu-Card route.

[awack]

I think it was mostly about money, every body who had a pc engine could play a hucard but not every one who had a pc engine could play a super cd or arcade card game, and SF II was the bigest name around at the time.


SF II was a 20 meg game, Flash Hiders and Godzilla for the snes were also 20 megs, i think the super cd versions of those two games were if anything better, so i think a scd version would have been very good and a ACD version of course would have been awesome.

[TurboXray]

Awack's right. A hucard release would hit the largest audience for sales. Though, personally I would have liked to see a ACD version as well.

[Joe Redifer]

How else could you play Street Fighter 2 on a portable system like the friends with a link cable?  Wait... that probably wasn't even supported, right?  The TurboExpress didn't have a 5-way link with an optional 6-button pad?  Nevermind me, then.

[Duo_R]

I read an article in VG"&CE back in the day about it originally being planned to be the first combo Hucard / CD-Rom game. It was going to use CD for arcade perfect sound. Obviously it got scrapped and probably for good reasons, look at the combo games on 32X. Also, larger reach with Hucard is the best explanation I have (more potential customers).

[Joe Redifer]

There are not "combo" games for the 32X.  Anyway, the concept could work.  You wouldn't need the CD to play the HuCard, it'd just use it if it were there.

[Duo_R]

Really Joe ? What is this then ?

There are not "combo" games for the 32X.  Anyway, the concept could work.  You wouldn't need the CD to play the HuCard, it'd just use it if it were there.

[CrackTiger]

Really Joe? What is this then?

There are not "combo" games for the 32X.  Anyway, the concept could work.  You wouldn't need the CD to play the HuCard, it'd just use it if it were there.

That's the Sega-CD equivalent of Shermatlock 2 and other bi-compatible games.

The rumors of a SFIICE PCE combo were that it would involve a cart and CD running the game together, like KOF '95 for Saturn.

[Duo_R]

and the upcoming Pier Solar for Sega CD

The rumors of a SFIICE PCE combo were that it would involve a cart and CD running the game together, like KOF '95 for Saturn.

[Joe Redifer]

Really Joe ? What is this then ?

That's not a combo game, it just comes with both versions.  A HuCard that uses a CD would be a combo game.  No 32X game uses both cart and CD.

[Ceti Alpha]

I'm glad it's on a Huey. No load times as mentioned, and there's just something about Hueys, especially SFII CE. It's work of art.

[hoobs88]

How else could you play Street Fighter 2 on a portable system like the friends with a link cable?  Wait... that probably wasn't even supported, right?  The TurboExpress didn't have a 5-way link with an optional 6-button pad?  Nevermind me, then.

PC Engine LT with multitap and 2 Arcade pads.

[guyjin]

Really Joe? What is this then?

As others have already pointed out, there are two discs in the box, one 32x, the other plain old sega CD.

[NecroPhile]

As has already been said, putting it on a HuCard reached the widest market and negated load times and memory limitations.

[paladinken]

I also read a similar report and that NEC HE had problems synchronizing the CD music with the Hucard. It is unfortunate and the double CD case that SFII' came in would have been perfect for a Hucard + CD combo.

I read an article in VG"&CE back in the day about it originally being planned to be the first combo Hucard / CD-Rom game. It was going to use CD for arcade perfect sound. Obviously it got scrapped and probably for good reasons

[Joe Redifer]

I wonder how much extra space the CD routines would take up?  I imagine a 24-meg HuCard would suffice without sacrificing anything on the non-CD side.  Some ADPCM might have been nice as well.

[TurboXray]

I wonder how much extra space the CD routines would take up?  I imagine a 24-meg HuCard would suffice without sacrificing anything on the non-CD side.  Some ADPCM might have been nice as well.

Pfft. Not much at all. There's enough room in the existing rom for them. It's as simple as issuing a track play request command. And as for ADPCM, it's there for ALL hucards to take advantage of - just none have (if you exclude the system cards - hehe). To be honest though, I don't see a big benefit of having a rom with cd play command routines. It's very possible that the Arcade Card was the original target for SF2'CE. It was in development with working prototypes as of mid '92. Maybe they foresaw the problems of getting the card out in time (or at the reasonable cost) and just moved the SF2 project over to hucard. I mean, releasing SF2'CE in feb/march '94 is a little passed its prime.

[Digi.k]

I'm glad they went the HU-card way I just wished they got someone like Daisuke Morishima (coryoon/1943 kai) to do the music instead of capcoms inhouse music programmers

[Lorfarius]

Really Joe? What is this then?

As others have already pointed out, there are two discs in the box, one 32x, the other plain old sega CD.

There are plenty of 32X and SegaCD crossover games. Night Trap for one has a much better version with higher quality video and different interface that only works with the two hardware parts combined.

[Ceti Alpha]

I just don't see the point in having SFII CE as a CDROM/SuperCD. The PCE port is arguably the best of the bunch and there are no loading times. It also showed that the HuCard format was quite capable of dishing out competition.

[CrackTiger]

I just don't see the point in having SFII CE as a CDROM/SuperCD. The PCE port is arguably the best of the bunch and there are no loading times. It also showed that the HuCard format was quite capable of dishing out competition.

Why not have both HuCard and CD versions? Many other arcade ports did. If anything, many CD-ROM owners would've bought both.

[SignOfZeta]

I've thought about this a lot and I think it must have been a tough decision for NEC. At the time of this game's release SFII was the game worldwide so its appearance on PCE was important. However at this time the PCE was in a state of transition from being a everyman's machine (the HuCard era, mainstrean action games, arcade ports, etc) to an overpriced ota wank object (the Super CD era, Graduation, Dragon Knight, etc). The mainstreamers were clearly moving to Super Famicom and many people never bought a CD add on. Consider that the Super System card alone was about the same price as SFIITurbo on SFC, and a Duo was 10,000 yen more than a SFC.

I have my doubts that a Super CD could have been done as well as the HuCard because of memory restrictions. It could easily been done on Arcade Card, but that was a ways into the future. In the end I think they went with the HuCard because they knew that there were way more HuCard capable systems that Super CD systems. I'm not sure if it was the right decision though financially. It would have cost probably $40 or so less on CD, which would have moved more copies, probably.

In the end it didn't go so well. The 12,800yen price tag (something like that) drove me away from the PCE version, even though it was quickly discounted. The cost of a multi-tap, two controllers and the 20 extra bucks for the the PCE version would almost buy a SFC/SNES, and that would have been the better deal anyway since it was only a few months before Turbo hit the SFC (which included CE as a mode) making the PCE version unique only in that it could be played on a portable...if by "play" you mean "lose because you only have half the buttons you need".

People today can look back and compare SFII' on PCE versions the other two versions as if they are the same thing, but as a SF fanatic from day one I can tell you that for fans of the game at that time the PCE version became as useless as tits on a chicken as soon as the SFC version of SFIITurbo came out. We needed the Kikoken, teleporting Dhalsim, and all the balance changes, period, and only the most horrible of ports would have made us want to go back a version.

[CrackTiger]

I've thought about this a lot and I think it must have been a tough decision for NEC. At the time of this game's release SFII was the game worldwide so its appearance on PCE was important. However at this time the PCE was in a state of transition from being a everyman's machine (the HuCard era, mainstrean action games, arcade ports, etc) to an overpriced ota wank object (the Super CD era, Graduation, Dragon Knight, etc). The mainstreamers were clearly moving to Super Famicom and many people never bought a CD add on. Consider that the Super System card alone was about the same price as SFIITurbo on SFC, and a Duo was 10,000 yen more than a SFC.

Sounds like SFIICE would've been the perfect killer app to get people to buy the System 3 card and/or CD-ROM.

I have my doubts that a Super CD could have been done as well as the HuCard because of memory restrictions. It could easily been done on Arcade Card, but that was a ways into the future. In the end I think they went with the HuCard because they knew that there were way more HuCard capable systems that Super CD systems. I'm not sure if it was the right decision though financially. It would have cost probably $40 or so less on CD, which would have moved more copies, probably.

It wouldn't have been the same, but it could've been better or different in other ways. It also would've made it easy and cheap to pump out a Turbo/Hyper Fighting update later on. But I still think that they should have made both a CD and HuCard version, even if the CD version was only a downgrade with CD music.

[esteban]

I've thought about this a lot and I think it must have been a tough decision for NEC. At the time of this game's release SFII was the game worldwide so its appearance on PCE was important. However at this time the PCE was in a state of transition from being a everyman's machine (the HuCard era, mainstrean action games, arcade ports, etc) to an overpriced ota wank object (the Super CD era, Graduation, Dragon Knight, etc). The mainstreamers were clearly moving to Super Famicom and many people never bought a CD add on. Consider that the Super System card alone was about the same price as SFIITurbo on SFC, and a Duo was 10,000 yen more than a SFC.

Sounds like SFIICE would've been the perfect killer app to get people to buy the System 3 card and/or CD-ROM.

I have my doubts that a Super CD could have been done as well as the HuCard because of memory restrictions. It could easily been done on Arcade Card, but that was a ways into the future. In the end I think they went with the HuCard because they knew that there were way more HuCard capable systems that Super CD systems. I'm not sure if it was the right decision though financially. It would have cost probably $40 or so less on CD, which would have moved more copies, probably.

It wouldn't have been the same, but it could've been better or different in other ways. It also would've made it easy and cheap to pump out a Turbo/Hyper Fighting update later on. But I still think that they should have made both a CD and HuCard version, even if the CD version was only a downgrade with CD music.

So, you know what? I'm thinking that there should have been a CD+G' soundtrack included with the HuCard (or as a mail-in offer, etc.). And, I'd love it if they had some neat, unorthodox remixes/alternate version of the songs.

I want my CD+G' SFII' Special' PCE' Soundtrack'

[Ceti Alpha]

I want my CD+G' SFII' Special' PCE' Soundtrack'

hehe. And Sting sang:

I want my...I want my...I want my CD+G' SFII' Special' PCE' Soundtrack. 

[termis]

I have mixed feelings on this one as well.  After playing NeoGeo ports and Kabukiden on the ACD, I think the big HuCard decision might've been the right one -- especially if you were playing 2P against friends  (and 3/4 of my SF2 time was against other people).  Loading screens somehow seem twice as long when two people are staring at the "Now Loading" text on TV.

Even though, it does make me wonder what an ACD port would've played/sounded like.

[TurboXray]

I have my doubts that a Super CD could have been done as well as the HuCard because of memory restrictions.

I did some hacking around with SF2. It wouldn't fit into the SCD memory without cutting frames of sprites. The BG is all in VRAM so it's no problem, but each 'player' sprite on average takes up about 150k. Then there's the game code and the sprite animation tables. SCD just wasn't up to the task.

[Tatsujin]

I have my doubts that a Super CD could have been done as well as the HuCard because of memory restrictions.

I did some hacking around with SF2. It wouldn't fit into the SCD memory without cutting frames of sprites. The BG is all in VRAM so it's no problem, but each 'player' sprite on average takes up about 150k. Then there's the game code and the sprite animation tables. SCD just wasn't up to the task.

ACD would have been the way to go. but also the way of reaching the fewest users.

[Joe Redifer]

Maybe SuperGrafx Arcade CD would have been best since that would be the best way to reach the fewest users.

[Tatsujin]

if that would have been the intention of NEC AVENUE, then YES!!

the great thing would have been, they really could have used the 2nd layer for the missing foreground objects.

[awack]

I did some hacking around with SF2. It wouldn't fit into the SCD memory without cutting frames of sprites. The BG is all in VRAM so it's no problem, but each 'player' sprite on average takes up about 150k. Then there's the game code and the sprite animation tables. SCD just wasn't up to the task.

So even with a total of 320 KB it doesn't seem like it would be sufficient, some large playable characters certainly take up allot of memory.

Even though Godzilla and flash hiders are at least as good as their cartridge counter parts, the super cd strengths are in other areas, shooter and action games for example, lords of thunder has more variety in its first two levels than most 16 bit shooters have in the entire game, Dracula X for the snes has missing content (sprites/animations) that could fill a book. One reason for this of course is that you can have two different load time per level, one for the stage level and one for the boss.

[SignOfZeta]

I did some hacking around with SF2. It wouldn't fit into the SCD memory without cutting frames of sprites. The BG is all in VRAM so it's no problem, but each 'player' sprite on average takes up about 150k. Then there's the game code and the sprite animation tables. SCD just wasn't up to the task.

So even with a total of 320 KB it doesn't seem like it would be sufficient, some large playable characters certainly take up allot of memory.

Even though Godzilla and flash hiders are at least as good as their cartridge counter parts, the super cd strengths are in other areas, shooter and action games for example, lords of thunder has more variety in its first two levels than most 16 bit shooters have in the entire game, Dracula X for the snes has missing content (sprites/animations) that could fill a book. One reason for this of course is that you can have two different load time per level, one for the stage level and one for the boss.

Would it have been worse than 2D fighters on Playstation? KOF95 is almost unplayable its so choppy. Fatal Fury Special had the line change system removed. MSHvsSF lost the tag and became extremely crap.

Askua and Flash Hiders are pretty competent. I'm sure a decent version of SFII could be done. It might be missing something, but most people wouldn't even notice.

[Joe Redifer]

I fixed yer quotes for you because you quoted yer own post. 

Anyway, I still want SF2 HuCard with optional SuperGrafx mode (like Darius) as well optional CD-ROM support (for music).  Oh, and I want it at 40 MEGs.

[spenoza]

I did some hacking around with SF2. It wouldn't fit into the SCD memory without cutting frames of sprites. The BG is all in VRAM so it's no problem, but each 'player' sprite on average takes up about 150k. Then there's the game code and the sprite animation tables. SCD just wasn't up to the task.

So even with a total of 320 KB it doesn't seem like it would be sufficient, some large playable characters certainly take up allot of memory.

Even though Godzilla and flash hiders are at least as good as their cartridge counter parts, the super cd strengths are in other areas, shooter and action games for example, lords of thunder has more variety in its first two levels than most 16 bit shooters have in the entire game, Dracula X for the snes has missing content (sprites/animations) that could fill a book. One reason for this of course is that you can have two different load time per level, one for the stage level and one for the boss.

Are you two speaking the same language? Are the character sprites 150 kB or 150 kb.

[awack]

Im talking about KBytes, 320(2560 kbits,i think) 256 + 64 thats used for ADPCM, the sound fx were more than good enough in my opinion.

I do know that large sprites with allot of moves and a good number of frames per move, take up allot of memory of course.

[boogiecat]

I prefer playing this one using the Hucard instead..

[Arkhan Asylum]

HuCard gave them an excuse to not dick up the music with corny early 90s poprock soundtracks....

:-D