TurboGrafx CD gear keeps jamming - WTF?

Ace · 09/27/2009, 04:04 PM

I'm starting to get incredibly annoyed by my TurboGrafx CD, and here's why: since I've gotten the add-on back in July, it has constantly caused me problems. To start it off, I got the TurboGrafx CD with a jammed gear. Okay, fair enough, I unjammed the thing, put some silicone grease on the gears and the laser's worm gear and it worked no problem. Since then, the gear won't cooperate; it has jammed 5 TIMES since I got it, and what really pisses me off is that THE NEXT DAY after the gear has been unjammed, it's jammed again! WTF? Why the hell does that damn gear ALWAYS jam the next day after it's unjammed?! In case you're wondering which gear it is, yes, it's the dreaded gear that disintegrates. That gear is 100% intact in my TurboGrafx CD, but discolored to hell, and, as I said before, keeps jamming no matter how many times I unjam that thing. Can anyone tell me why my TurboGrafx CD is acting up like that?

SignOfZeta · 09/27/2009, 04:40 PM

Are you playing CDRs? Is it jamming at the end of the laser's travel?

EDIT: BTW, if you are playing CD-Rs exclusively, this is not my way of ragging on you for being a pirate or anything. I don't care at all about that shit. I'm just trying to see if CD-Rs are the common link between jammed lasers and broken gears on early CD units.

kattare · 09/27/2009, 10:14 PM

The grease in there has probably aged and become gummy... maybe you can clean it all out and re-grease it all?

NecroPhile · 09/28/2009, 11:52 AM

Either the grease you used is too viscous, a gear is missing a tooth (though not necessarily the one that usually fails), or something is misaligned. Start hunting, I guess. Good luck.

Ace · 09/28/2009, 12:38 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/27/2009, 04:40 PMAre you playing CDRs? Is it jamming at the end of the laser's travel?

EDIT: BTW, if you are playing CD-Rs exclusively, this is not my way of ragging on you for being a pirate or anything. I don't care at all about that shit. I'm just trying to see if CD-Rs are the common link between jammed lasers and broken gears on early CD units.

I'm exclusively using CD-Rs, and no, they are NOT the cause because the laser is not jamming at the end of the travel. The gear is physically stuck; it won't rotate unless I move it around a bit.

None of the gears are damaged, not even the notorious discolored piece of rotten plastic. The add-on was cleaned out as soon as I got it, then was given a coat of silicone grease, which has since dried, and I'm now using a paste-type lubricant(can't remember what it was that I used).

I will say this though: when I go unjam the gear, I notice that it doesn't seem to be holding steady on the metal rod it's put in. I can nudge it a little bit up and down. Is it maybe too loose on the rod?

SignOfZeta · 09/28/2009, 02:45 PM

Quote from: AceNone of the gears are damaged, not even the notorious discolored piece of rotten plastic. The add-on was cleaned out as soon as I got it, then was given a coat of silicone grease, which has since dried,

That must have been some pretty lame grease.

QuoteI will say this though: when I go unjam the gear, I notice that it doesn't seem to be holding steady on the metal rod it's put in. I can nudge it a little bit up and down. Is it maybe too loose on the rod?

That's pretty much how they all are, at least to a point.

Ace · 09/28/2009, 03:06 PM

So then why would the gear keep getting stuck? Is it about to disintegrate?

esteban · 09/28/2009, 04:45 PM

Quote from: Ace on 09/28/2009, 03:06 PMSo then why would the gear keep getting stuck? Is it about to disintegrate?

Actually, TTi had a do-it-yourself repair kit for the TG-CD. Although the kit didn't promise to fix the hardware, it guaranteed to extend the life of your TG-CD a bit.

I have never seen the TG-CD Repair Kit on eBay, but here are the directions...

QuoteINSTRUCTIONS:
1. Remove TurboGrafx-CD System Card from slot.
2. Insert Champions Forever Boxing HuCard into slot.
3. Enjoy.
4. Go to 3.

I've heard mixed things about the results...

Ace · 09/28/2009, 06:27 PM

Sorry Esteban, but just using a HuCard instead of a CD-ROM game just doesn't cut the mustard for me. I NEED TO HAVE A WORKING TURBOGRAFX CD!!!! And a Super System Card + PC Engine flash cartridge. I MUST be able to use my Gradius II disc on that thing. If worst comes to worst, I'll drop in a KSS-220a.

SignOfZeta · 09/28/2009, 08:49 PM

Quote from: Ace on 09/28/2009, 03:06 PMSo then why would the gear keep getting stuck? Is it about to disintegrate?

Wel, no. If its "about" to disintegrate, but hasn't deteriorated at all so far, then it will perform as it did originally. I'd take a *really* close look at the teeth. There may be some tiny chunk missing from one of the gears. It can be very hard to see.

If I were having this problem I would immediately stop using the system since every time the gear jams you that much closer to the thing shattering. I would clean the system thoroughly of all substances (ie: whatever stuff you used that evaporated would have left some kind of residue behind) and then try to figure out if the problem is with individual gears moving on their shafts, or if the problem is the gears binding against each other. If it is the gears themselves then I would just spin them a lot with some lithium grease in place. If the problem is the way the gears move against each other then I would try to make sure that nothing is bent (the way the motor is mounted, the little pins, ect) and, like I said, that none of the teeth are partially missing. If that looks good, then I would lube it up good with lithium grease and put the thing together. Once its up and running I would move the laser back and forth as far as possible. Put a 76min CD in there with a lot of tracks on there and skip from the first to the last track over and over again. That should either free it up good, or...break it for good.

I think this theory of old grease+lack of use makes a lot of sense to me.

Has anyone had the laser get stuck at the end of its travel Duo-style with a CDROM2 unit?

Ace · 09/30/2009, 06:26 PM

Not me. I'm only using CD-Rs, and while it didn't get stuck like a TurboDuo, I did hear a grinding noise coming from the TurboGrafx CD(the gear was intact after the grind). Did it maybe try to go further than its travel allows towards the spindle motor?

The gears are fine, just that stupid gear that's discolored. When it jams, that gear doesn't move at all, but the other 2 can move freely in the tiny space in between each tooth on the stuck gear. What's weird is that the gear appears to get stuck WHEN THE ADD-ON IS NOT IN USE. While it's working, it never jams unless it jammed before.

May I remind you that when I bought my TurboGrafx CD in July, the gear was jammed in the exact same fashion, but it didn't jam consistently like it does now.

EDIT: I went to check the gears for any signs of damage, and have found none whatsoever. I also just went to move the gear, and I noticed that it took a lot less effort to get the gear unjammed. My guess is that the gear is somehow getting stuck on the metal rod that holds it. Used to be that I had to move the gear back and forth to get it unjammed, but it was just enough that I rotated the gear and it unjammed with barely any effort(no teeth were damaged or broken in the process).

EDIT 2: Tested my copy of Gradius II to see if read all the tracks on the disc(contains 28 tracks) - read all 28 tracks flawlessly(even though 2 tracks are data).

BlackandBlue · 10/01/2009, 12:27 AM

Mine was doing this too. Every day it would jam up again (I replaced the laser/spindle motor thinking that was the problem). I ended up removing the black clip on the middle gear (discolored gear that likes to shred) and pulled of the gear (*carefully*). I greased the post and slid the gear back on. Then put the clip back on. Mine has been working for over 2 months since I did this. It was the black clip that was making the gear get stuck, but you cant pull it off and leave it, because the gear would work itself out. By greasing it, some will get pushed out and will grease the clip when you reapply. Give it a try, but that gear will break if you look at it wrong, so be careful.

Ace · 10/01/2009, 09:31 AM

Even though I've never worked with a TurboGrafx CD before getting mine in July, for the long amount of time I was visiting PC Engine FX before making an account, I had a pretty good idea about the stupid gear and how fragile it becomes.

So, I guess my suspicion is correct: the gear IS getting stuck on the post. Now, I'm not too fond of removing the black clip that holds the gear in place. If I remove it, wouldn't it just be easier to glue the gear onto the post with some epoxy? It shouldn't jam anymore that way. And even if the gear does disintegrate later on, I'm dropping in a KSS-220a. At least, I won't have to deal with a faulty gear for another 20 years.

BlackandBlue · 10/01/2009, 09:37 AM

The gear needs to be able to spin on the post, so you can't glue it. Also, the KSS-220a only replaces the laser (I made a guide somewhere around here for it), so unless you want to do a ton of work and cutting to replace the entire assembly, you still have to deal with the gear. The clip isn't that bad. You could pull it off with even touching the gear with some sharp tweezers.

SignOfZeta · 10/01/2009, 11:41 AM

Quote from: AceSo, I guess my suspicion is correct: the gear IS getting stuck on the post. Now, I'm not too fond of removing the black clip that holds the gear in place. If I remove it, wouldn't it just be easier to glue the gear onto the post with some epoxy? It shouldn't jam anymore that way.

Um...just think about what you are saying there for a second.

Ace · 10/01/2009, 10:13 PM

I guess the paste lubricant I used got far enough in between the gear and the post; the gear hasn't jammed since I last unjammed it yesterday. How long should I wait before declaring this issue solved?

EDIT: Well, looks like it only lasted 2 days, and a few hours after unjamming the gear, it got jammed again. I'm gonna have to take the plunge and pull off the black clip that holds the middle gear and clean/lubricate the post. Damn thing... I never thought a TurboGrafx CD would cause me so many problems short of a completely disintegrated gear.

I guess that's the price I have to pay for the very first CD-ROM based gaming item.

Ace · 10/09/2009, 01:44 PM

I am SO F-ING PISSED OFF RIGHT NOW! From the damn gear jamming all the time, I ended up tearing the thick ribbon cable! F***!!!

Just great! I don't end up with a dead TurboGrafx CD because of the stupid gear, but because the f-ing ribbon cable tore... GOD DAMN IT!!! Time to get a KSS-220a. I might as well just replace the entire laser block so I don't have to deal with that f-ing gear anymore. THAT STUPID LITTLE PIECE OF PLASTIC IS CURSED!!!

SignOfZeta · 10/09/2009, 06:13 PM

l

Quote from: AceGOD DAMN IT!!! Time to get a KSS-220a. I might as well just replace the entire laser block so I don't have to deal with that f-ing gear anymore.

You make it sound so easy. A rotating gear is about the most simple mechanical device in the world. If you can't come up with a fix for this, then the KSS-220a might be beyond your abilities.

The biggest problem with getting the clip off is losing it. If you can manage to keep track of the thing you should have this gear thing fixed for good. With the huge number of busted TG-16/PCE CDROM2 units broken out there because of shattered gears, getting another ribbon cable shouldn't be very hard. If I were you I would consider myself EXTREMELY lucky that the daily jamming of the gear hasn't caused it to shatter. I'm very surprised/happy for you that the thing is still in one piece.

In case you give up, I see Rising Stuff has a Duo R for $145...

Ace · 10/09/2009, 06:58 PM

Zeta, I'm fed up of having to consistently unjam that f-ing gear every damn day just to play on my TurboGrafx CD, and now with the damn ribbon cable(the big one) torn, I can't play anything on my TurboGrafx CD unless I get a KSS-220a and pull out the laser.

And I'm not gonna spend 145 bucks on a PC Engine Duo-R. I can get a KSS-220a and a Japanese Super System Card for less than that(one of my 2 TurboGrafxes is modded with a region switch specifically for using the Japanese Super System Card).

SignOfZeta · 10/09/2009, 07:43 PM

Quote from: Ace on 10/09/2009, 06:58 PMZeta, I'm fed up of having to consistently unjam that f-ing gear every damn day just to play on my TurboGrafx CD, and now with the damn ribbon cable(the big one) torn, I can't play anything on my TurboGrafx CD unless I get a KSS-220a and pull out the laser.

This isn't factually true. The KSS-220a is not the only way your unit can be fixed. You can get another ribbon cable from another broken CDROM2 (of which there are many) and fix the gear for real. I'm not trying to offend you when I say that if you can't fix the gear problem then what makes you think you can pull off a transplant of a substantially different mechanism? I'm fairly confident in my jiggery-pokery skills (between the ancient game systems and the Gundam models... I'm a product of my environment!) but If I had your busted CDROM I would definitely fix the gear before doing the transplant. No question. Its just a gear that gets stuck on a shaft...I mean, how much more simple could the problem possibly be? I know you are pissed, but solutions to technical problems like this require and even head, and a methodical, scientific solution.

QuoteAnd I'm not gonna spend 145 bucks on a PC Engine Duo-R. I can get a KSS-220a and a Japanese Super System Card for less than that(one of my 2 TurboGrafxes is modded with a region switch specifically for using the Japanese Super System Card).

I only suggested the Duo R because it is a much simpler solution than the amount of gluing and cutting you'll need to do to replace the entire laser transplant.

BTW, if you do decide to (and succeed in) removing this gear from your life I would gladly buy your busted laser mechanism from you. I need one of those gears.

Ace · 10/09/2009, 08:37 PM

I think for now, if I get a KSS-220a, all I'll do is to take the laser and spindle motor and shove it into the TurboGrafx CD's CD-ROM drive, then I'll fit in the KSS-220a when the gear decides to shatter. I know this may sound crazy, but I REALLY need to get this thing up and running. I have a Zero Wing Marathon going on on my YouTube channel, and I really want to record a playthrough of Zero Wing for the PC Engine CD-ROM, but because the TurboGrafx CD doesn't work anymore, I can't do that.

SignOfZeta · 10/09/2009, 09:22 PM

...but your not even having laser/motor issues at all, are you? Did I miss something?

It sounds like you are going to fix something that isn't broken and then knowingly break something permanently that is still savable if you act on it.

Ace · 10/10/2009, 02:02 PM

Yes, you did miss something. THE RIBBON CABLE ON THE LASER IS TORN. Now, the disc will spin for a split second, then stop. There is only 1 lead on the ribbon cable that's broken, but it's enough to prevent the thing from working.

And the gear is still jamming.

Is there some way to fix torn ribbon cables?

SignOfZeta · 10/10/2009, 05:31 PM

Quote from: Ace on 10/10/2009, 02:02 PMYes, you did miss something. THE RIBBON CABLE ON THE LASER IS TORN. Now, the disc will spin for a split second, then stop. There is only 1 lead on the ribbon cable that's broken, but it's enough to prevent the thing from working.

I didn't miss that at all. I suggested before (twice, I think) that you buy a CDROM with a broken gear in it and steal the ribbon cable from that. There are ways of fixing/substituting ribbon cables but considering the tight packaging issues in these units I'd say just getting a used one is the best idea.

Besides, when you buy a KSS-220a do you get a new ribbon cable anyway? It doesn't seem like it from the pictures I've seen.

QuoteAnd the gear is still jamming.

Did you remove the gear from its shaft, bore it out slightly, clean off the shaft, and replace it with new lube?

Ace · 10/11/2009, 02:12 PM

Of course you do! The ribbon cables are attached INSIDE the laser. The KSS-220a's you see on eBay are the entire drive: spindle, laser, everything.

You kidding? I'm not going to buy another TurboGrafx CD just to take out its laser(broken or not)! Not when I can get a KSS-220a for less than a broken TurboGrafx CD(I don't know how much they usually sell for, but considering the TurboGrafx CD is a high-value item, one can expect broken TurboGrafx CDs to cost quite a bit).

SignOfZeta · 10/11/2009, 03:59 PM

Between the parties and the Maiden CDs I think this party has got about as much heavy mettle as its going to need...

I didn't know about the lasers they have on eBay. The ones I've seen other places don't have any of the transport included. Are you sure this ribbon cable is identical to the one you broke? I ask because there are many other things about it that are different and a ribbon cable of this type that isn't a %100 match is probably useless.

If its different and you still need a ribbon cable, I don't think you need to pay a lot for a busted drive. There are an increasing number of ones with broken gears out there and they are all as useless as tits on a chicken until someone makes us some gears. Also, there is no point in going for the much more rare and overpriced US version when you can get a PC Engine CDROM2 unit for much less. I can't imagine them being worth more than $20 broken, if that. I have an extra broken one, but I'm keeping it. There are many others here with broken PCE CDROM2s.

Anyway, its pretty obvious that you are just going to buy one of these lasers, whether its a realistic fix or not, so just do it and then tell us how it went.

EDIT: After looking around at some of these laser assemblies it sort of looks like the ribbon cable isn't removable from the laser. I didn't notice this before since all the previous pics I had seen had the cables cropped out, or something.

Also, I think I might buy one of these myself and see if I can't hack it into my currently busted CDROM2.

kattare · 10/12/2009, 02:12 AM

Ace, you can repair your ribbon cable. It's tricky, but can be done. It's just really thin copper in there, so what you want to do is take a hobby knife and scrape away some of the coating on either side of the break, then tin it, and solder on a bridge wire. Same deal as you'd do to fix a broken pcb. Your sticking gears... it sounds like you need to give them a bath in detergent, then rinse 'em really good and start with some fresh lithium grease.

Ace & Zeta, the kss-220a unit you find on ebay is mechanism + laser + ribbon cables, however, only the laser & ribbon is directly swappable into the TGCD/CDROM2. The mechanism is a different beast, and it takes a lot of work to get it swapped in. You have to hack/dremmel/etc the plastic case, move several (6?) caps on the pcb, and completely remove the rear power and line out jacks to make room for the kss-220a tracking motor. You also have to swap the polarity on the tracking motor feed. I've done it twice now, but it's not pleasant. Next time I do it I'll have to write up a howto.

SignOfZeta · 10/12/2009, 02:15 AM

Please do, that would be awesome!

I have a working CDROM2, and another one with a broken gear. I only have one PCE and IFU. For now gears are unobtainable, so doing this total swap thing would be a low-risk side project for me.

Ace · 10/13/2009, 06:19 PM

Katare hit the nail right on the head: the laser is identical between the KSS-220a and TurboGrafx CD. Same goes for the spindle motor, which I think would be a good idea to replace since I keep hearing of TurboGrafx CD spindles dropping a millimeter when a laser swap was performed. At least I'll have a more reliable spindle that way as well.

Now, Katare, if I were to go ahead an attempt a ribbon cable repair, how should I go about using the craft knife? Should I scrape the outer coating of the ribbon cable by pressing the knife on the cable at an angle from where the tear is?

kattare · 10/17/2009, 01:11 AM

Ace, pressure and angle to get the plastic layer off is going to vary from cable to cable. I usually have the knife at an angle such that the edge of the knife cannot dig in... IE:

/ knife blade >>> knife stroke >>>
----------- cable

or:

\ knife blade <<< knife stroke <<<
----------- cable

or at worst, 90 deg:

| knife blade >>> knife stroke >>>
----------- cable

If you cut into the cable with the blade, you could easily cut through the conductor.

Dunno if that helps or not... best of luck.

Ace · 11/22/2009, 06:57 PM

I only JUST had an opportunity to get my TurboGrafx CD back up and running and repair that ribbon cable. Thanks a bunch Kattare!

My TurboGrafx CD is back up and running!

*plays Zero Wing to celebrate*

Ace · 12/02/2009, 08:16 PM

Hey guys, sorry for the bump, but I just noticed something with my TurboGrafx CD and the issue of the notorious gear getting stuck. It would seem as though the gear only gets jammed when the laser is right next to the spindle. Since I repaired the ribbon cable in my TurboGrafx CD, the gear wasn't getting stuck anymore(re-applied some lubricant) unless the laser was right next to the spindle. That's a little piece of advice for you TurboGrafx CD owners: never leave the TurboGrafx CD idle unless the laser is away from the spindle, otherwise, it'll jam.

nat · 12/05/2009, 04:10 PM

In my CD-ROM^2, I took the white metal cover off that insulates the "disc bay" from the laser mechanism and gears so that if/when mine ever gets stuck, I don't actually have to take the CD-ROM apart to unstick it. It works wonderfully. It also eliminates the risk of the dreaded "CD scrape." Just my two cents for folks who don't mind having the drive mechanics exposed to the inside of the "disc bay."

blueraven · 12/15/2009, 04:32 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 09/28/2009, 08:49 PMHas anyone had the laser get stuck at the end of its travel Duo-style with a CDROM2 unit?

YES Zeta I have this problem with the PCE Duo I just did a full cap replacement on.

It slowed down, made some "angry noise" and ground to a halt, I was able to keep it working a for a bit but now it is sitting at the end of travel, still pulls power from the unit and looks like it wants to move...

DEFINITELY needs a re-greasing. Teeth on the gears are fine. I'm at a standstill right now.

--

EDIT: I have ordered a new HOP-M3 laser for the unit and will post updates and photos regarding the replacement.

Ace · 12/16/2009, 12:35 AM

Zeta was asking if the TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo laser jamming problem would also happen on a STANDARD TurboGrafx CD or PC Engine CD-ROM, not the Duo units. On a Duo, you shouldn't have to worry about the gears disintegrating. The CD-ROM drive is completely different between the TurboGrafx CD and TurboDuo, with the Duo's drive having no such problem with a gear that could disintegrate at any moment. I'm pretty sure you can simply disassemble your current HOP-M3 and reposition the laser. Of course, a good re-greasing would be a good idea.

blueraven · 12/16/2009, 12:45 AM

Thanks for the heads up, Ace; I'm going to disassemble the unit. Glad to gear that issue doesn't affect the Duo...