PCE, SNES and Genesis Screen Comparison.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I've mentioned this before, but, Shapeshifter has to have the best transparency I've ever seen on the Turbo, unless my eyes decieve me, it looks flawless.

[SignOfZeta]

So... what, are transparencies and scaling 80% of the game experience or something?

I'd say they are as relevant to gameplay as the superior animation and music in the PCE version of Drac X.

We've all been looking at these Word Heroes comparisons and being very impressed with the PCE version. (IMO Fatal Fury Special is an even better example of the PCE's potential.) Nobody ever poo poo-ed that trend and mentioned that the gameplay is basically identical in all three versions.

This thread is called "PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison" for a reason. We are comparing (not ignoring) the graphics, in case you didn't notice. The C64 could probably give us the identical gameplay experience of SD3, but I don't think it would be as loved of a game if it had crusty-ass C64 graphics. Likewise, Emerald Dragon and Advanced V.G. play just fine on SNES, and I think the Sinclair could give us the same gameplay experience that we get in Snatcher.

[CrackTiger]

My main point though is that the PCE can't do something as simple as, say, a super bomb in Super Metroid. On the surface this may seem "unfair" since the super bomb was clearly inspired by hardware FX built into the SNES (ie: it was "designed around the hardware") but the reality is that there are loads of SNES games with fantastic transparencies that can't be done on the PCE, or at least not as well because that flickering stuff usually looks like total shit. The other big problem is that the PCE can't vary/fade the transparency, just change the rate of flicker, which is extremely un-smooth looking.

Most transparency effects I've seen in SNES games have been cheap effects to save on space instead of using actual artwork/unique graphics. Same with non 3D terrain Mode 7 effects. The Super Metroid Super Bomb is a good example of something that could be done way better using actual graphics instead of a colored circle.

The scaling and the transparency, mostly. If you can play SD3 and actually believe that a PCE could do anything like a decent port of it, then I guess I can't penetrate your PCE obedience layer.

I haven't actually played through SD3, I've only seen lots of screen shots and videos. For years I thought that it was supposed to be an unbelievable game visually (until I got to watch decent gameplay videos). Although it looks very nice for what it is, it suffers from Square SNES cart game weaknesses. The 3D map wouldn't be done the same on PCE, which would be fine by me since I'm not a fan of 360 degree world maps for RPGs. Otherwise the only scaling effects I saw were the weakest visuals in the game and were essentially non-graphic substitutes for real spell effect artwork.

The transparencies seem to be almost exclusively made up of full screen color tinting, which is easy to do without hardware transparency effects (I believe that Lunar EB Sega-CD does them with color cycling). Blood Gear actual does a superior version of background color tinting. When the background is lit up by red lights, hidden details emerge with unique art where shadows once were.

I mean, people here like to laugh at how pathetic Dracula XX is compared to the PCE version, but if there were a PCE version of SD3 it would be even more pathetic. I might actually be better in some ways (ie: more animation) but flickering stuff that is supossed to be transparent and pre-rendered animations instead of actual scaling only work in really narrow applications.

It's the scaling effects that are pathetic and need to be replaced by actual artwork with animation. Pretty much every scene I've seen of the game would look better if done different. It's not even about SNES vs PCE, it's really a case of Square-cart-game vs removing overall storage restrictions and bad Square habits. SD3 could look so much better on SNES too (and yes even on Genesis/Sega-CD).

I currently don't even own a SNES, but I do know the difference between reality and fantasy, theory and practical application, being a connoisseur and being an obedient otaku. The Square-style "big budget RPG" just goes over better on SNES. Likewise, the more simplistic (in a good way), cinema/redbook/etchie stuff goes over better on PCE. For example, there is a SFC version of Emerald Dragon and I'm sure it makes us all laugh.

It's still just tiles and sprites. You can port them all over across the 16-bit consoles. Even if Square SNES games had made better use of Mode 7 and transparencies, there are always different things that could be substituted that may or may not better suit other hardware. But for what was actually released, pretty much every spell in Square SNES RPGs would look better on any 16-bit console if redone. Also, compare the second stage boss of Forgotten Worlds for Genesis and Turbo/PCE to see what a difference balls as limbs makes.

Any limitations of the SNES Emerald Dragon wouldn't be a result of the hardware, just as Drac XX wasn't butchered because the SNES couldn't handle it.

So... what, are transparencies and scaling 80% of the game experience or something?

I'd say they are as relevant to gameplay as the superior animation and music in the PCE version of Drac X.

The gameplay in Drac XX is broken for reasons separate from the aesthetics, but to combine your point with Tom's-

Are transparencies and scaling 80% of the aesthetic experience or something?

[SignOfZeta]

I'm not at all surprised that this conversation has been distilled to this:

"The PCE can't do transparencies."

"Yes it can, with flickering, just don't play if you are epileptic and you'll be fine."

"Well, those look like shit."

"Well, I never liked real transparencies anyway. They are cheap."

The perfect defense of a console's inability to do something; "I never liked that anyway".

While you may have preferred actual animation to a Metroid super bomb, the reality is that most people thought that was cool as hell when they saw it. Sure, its not critical to gameplay, but it is somewhat intertwined. The main use of a super bomb is to reveal breakable blocks or hidden items, and the way the circle expands out does this in a way where...well, I'm not sure it would be as cool with animations. Would the smoke and fire obscure the items the bomb would reveal until they disappeared? It wouldn't have the same "reveal" to it. I mean, if George Lucas made Star Wars with a 16mm camera, used black and white film, and paper airplanes flung through the air instead of state of the art models, would it be as good of a movie? Considering the plot is weak I'd say it wouldn't be as valuable of an artistic contribution. Does this mean that it was crap all along, and the FX were just blinding us? Maybe so, but it doesn't change the fact that nobody would have given a shit about the series if it wasn't (for the time) cutting edge. Would Citizen Cane be the same if it were shot on a PXL2000?

As for Mode 7, I seem to remember Super Mario Kart outselling virtually every PCE racing game ever made combined (do not take that literally) so while Mode 7 is "cheap and tacky" to hard core PCE fans, the reality is that it allowed for a gameplay mechanic that obliterated all the Pole Position/Outrun systems that had been in use since Night Driver when the power (and expertise) didn't exists to do polygons in a usable manor on home consoles. Mario Kart was vastly more playable and competitive than any racing game ever made up until that point, and its very nature simply cannot be duplicated on PCE because it had you actually moving around a map, instead of just showing you an animation of what might be a single point of view from what might be a map. SMK was to racing what SFII was to fighting games. In fact, Super Mario Kart easily remained the best/only competitive home racing experience until Ridge Racer was released for PS, and that required two consoles and...still wasn't as fun...but I digress. Now, I'm not saying that Mode 7 alone made SMK what it was (Mode 7 made several lesser racing games go) but it was essential, and it cannot be duplicated on PCE.

I'm sure you probably think that Chase H.Q. or Outrun are just as great at being skill intensive two player racing games. I might point out that they are single player. This is where you will say that multi-player racing is a tacky cheat anyway. So, I guess there is just no convincing some people. If that's the case, then I'm talking to a fanatical brick wall, so fuck it. I might as well be arguing global warming on the 700 Club's blog.

Here's what I think: PCE developers would have LOVED to have had access to Mode 7 and transparencies when they were making these games we love so much, and if they had you wouldn't be arguing against them...or if you were, you'd be doing it on a Mega Drive forum. If the guys who programed LoX could make that water actually transparent instead of spazzy flickering stuff they would do it in an instant and never look back. Maybe you wouldn't, but they would, and nobody would have complained.

[Tatsujin]

always loved how the clouds disappearing in the PCE port.looks even more fantastic than in the arcade version!

[shubibiman]

Posts are getting too long here. Can't be "#^+!& reading everything ^^

[CrackTiger]

I'm not at all surprised that this conversation has been distilled to this:

"The PCE can't do transparencies."

"Yes it can, with flickering, just don't play if you are epileptic and you'll be fine."

"Well, those look like shit."

"Well, I never liked real transparencies anyway. They are cheap."

The perfect defense of a console's inability to do something; "I never liked that anyway".

First of all my point is that there isn't just "hardware effects" and "nothing". The PCE can do all kinds of transparency effects and like I said, the flicker style is only one way (which looks perfect when done right). And just because the SNES can do one type of transparency effect through hardware, it isn't without its own limitations.

Too often SNES games use transparencies just for the sake of it or as a substitute for original graphics art and Square was one of the worst offenders. I've never said that I don't like "real" transparencies, in fact I said that there is so such thing. Cheap transparency effects are cheap.

The effect isn't even a transparency in most cases, really the transparency is being used to depict the effect and there are many ways to achieve an effect. It's when people lose sight of this that games wind up with transparencies for the sake of transparencies.

While you may have preferred actual animation to a Metroid super bomb, the reality is that most people thought that was cool as hell when they saw it. Sure, its not critical to gameplay, but it is somewhat intertwined. The main use of a super bomb is to reveal breakable blocks or hidden items, and the way the circle expands out does this in a way where...well, I'm not sure it would be as cool with animations. Would the smoke and fire obscure the items the bomb would reveal until they disappeared? It wouldn't have the same "reveal" to it.

I won't go into theoretical substitutes right now, but the same effect could be done the way that Vasteel does a transparent layer. It may look like crap to you, but the reality is that most people thought that was cool as hell when they saw it. But instead of a single color circle, it could use detailed tile art.

As for Mode 7, I seem to remember Super Mario Kart outselling virtually every PCE racing game ever made combined (do not take that literally) so while Mode 7 is "cheap and tacky" to hard core PCE fans, the reality is that it allowed for a gameplay mechanic that obliterated all the Pole Position/Outrun systems that had been in use since Night Driver when the power (and expertise) didn't exists to do polygons in a usable manor on home consoles. Mario Kart was vastly more playable and competitive than any racing game ever made up until that point, and its very nature simply cannot be duplicated on PCE because it had you actually moving around a map, instead of just showing you an animation of what might be a single point of view from what might be a map. SMK was to racing what SFII was to fighting games. In fact, Super Mario Kart easily remained the best/only competitive home racing experience until Ridge Racer was released for PS, and that required two consoles and...still wasn't as fun...but I digress. Now, I'm not saying that Mode 7 alone made SMK what it was (Mode 7 made several lesser racing games go) but it was essential, and it cannot be duplicated on PCE.

This is why I made the distinction between pseudo 3D environments and abstract pixely shapes. It's just like when later consoles use 3D graphics for 2D gameplay vs 3D graphics used for 3D gameplay. But even the SNES couldn't do SMK and required extra hardware added into the cart.

I'm sure you probably think that Chase H.Q. or Outrun are just as great at being skill intensive two player racing games. I might point out that they are single player. This is where you will say that multi-player racing is a tacky cheat anyway. So, I guess there is just no convincing some people. If that's the case, then I'm talking to a fanatical brick wall, so fuck it. I might as well be arguing global warming on the 700 Club's blog.

I'm not a fan of racing games, but I had a lot of fun with Final Lap Twin. But Even spit screen in that style of racing game isn't the same as games with 360 movement like SMK.

Here's what I think: PCE developers would have LOVED to have had access to Mode 7 and transparencies when they were making these games we love so much, and if they had you wouldn't be arguing against them...or if you were, you'd be doing it on a Mega Drive forum. If the guys who programed LoX could make that water actually transparent instead of spazzy flickering stuff they would do it in an instant and never look back. Maybe you wouldn't, but they would, and nobody would have complained.

PCE developers didn't even know what the PCE could already do. Every developer who knew so many tricks still seemed clueless for others. If the PCE had had Mode 7 and transparencies, the CD games would look much different than SNES cart games. They'd be used when necessary much more and as filler much less.

I don't know anyone else who finds the flicker style transparencies in the LoX games to be "spazzy".



EDIT:

A couple things I keep forgetting to mention.

Most SNES games use "spazzy" flicker transparencies because 1: they look fine and 2: the SNES "hardware" transparencies have restrictions.

So, I guess there is just no convincing some people. If that's the case, then I'm talking to a fanatical brick wall, so fuck it. I might as well be arguing global warming on the 700 Club's blog.

This thread was simply comparing screens of released versions as-is. peonpiate was the one who, whether he understood or not what we were comparing, had to tell us how unfair it is to look at screen shots.

There are only a few people here who ridicule some of the weaker versions of games. If you'd been reading all along you'd know that those same people make fun of weak PCE ports as much as or more than those on other consoles. Bonk 3 CD and Golden Axe are a couple recent examples.

You were the one who sat back and only contributed this much to the discussion once you felt that the SNES' supremacy was being questioned. At the same time you're calling everyone else blind fanboys.

The only reason awack compares things like animation sometimes is to show some of the strengths of some PCE games, since the gaming community overall has been perpetuating stereotypes that the PCE can't touch [insert preffered rival console].

[awack]

Splatter House/Splatter House 2, first few levels.


PCE                                               GENESIS







PCE                                               GENESIS

[TurboXray]

I'm not at all surprised that this conversation has been distilled to this:

"The PCE can't do transparencies."

"Yes it can, with flickering, just don't play if you are epileptic and you'll be fine."

"Well, those look like shit."

"Well, I never liked real transparencies anyway. They are cheap."

The perfect defense of a console's inability to do something; "I never liked that anyway".

Wow. THAT's how you perceived people on this this forum? O_o

 I don't know of anyone on here that hates transparency effects. They are often beautiful. But the point is that they aren't necessary like 98% of the time. SNES developers *did* over use them. Compare SNES lib to any PS/Saturn or even later generation when it comes to transparent layers. SNES games are often guilty of using transparency effects as a crutch - IMO. Similar to the Megadrive developers over use of scrolls. It's pretty much the only effect it has and developers over use it. So much so that I've seen gamers post that the Genesis/Megadrive has "better" multi-scroll capabilities than the SNES. Which is ridiculous. SNES has more scroll layers/tilemaps, options, and a better system for handling them.

 Mode 7. Yes, racers really did benefit from it - *but* beyond that it mostly force/gimmicky. Hell, look at SD3 with magic effects that 'emulate' mode 7's blockiness, but it's not even mode 7. It's just transparency layer with cell sized pixels. And it looks like ass. Yay! Looking like ass ftw!

It wouldn't have the same "reveal" to it. I mean, if George Lucas made Star Wars with a 16mm camera, used black and white film, and paper airplanes flung through the air instead of state of the art models, would it be as good of a movie? Considering the plot is weak I'd say it wouldn't be as valuable of an artistic contribution. Does this mean that it was crap all along, and the FX were just blinding us? Maybe so, but it doesn't change the fact that nobody would have given a shit about the series if it wasn't (for the time) cutting edge. Would Citizen Cane be the same if it were shot on a PXL2000?

You're saying the PCE is black and white 16mm and to the SNES color 35mm!? That huge of a difference. Are you that retarded or just a fan of piss poor analogies?

Here's what I think: PCE developers would have LOVED to have had access to Mode 7 and transparencies when they were making these games we love so much

Actually, the PCE is capable of quite a few cool tricks and yet barely used by any developers and some were never used.

I might as well be arguing global warming on the 700 Club's blog.

You're also the same person who didn't believe me that you can do transparency effects on the SGX similar to the SNES - even though I had written demos showing it. Eventually, you decided you were just going to take "my word for it". You have this attitude/view of the PCE and have already made up your mind as to what the PCE can and can't do. And no one is going to tell you different, what's equates to a 'magnitude of difference' on your scale, and just how 'important' these *lacking* features of the PCE are to the gaming experience.  Yeah... 700 club is right.

If the guys who programed LoX could make that water actually transparent instead of spazzy flickering stuff they would do it in an instant and never look back. Maybe you wouldn't, but they would, and nobody would have complained.

They definitely would have. But what is this in relation to? SD3 on the PCE? Adding transparency to that LOX level isn't going to change the game.

 For the record, I owned a SNES the day is was release. Played the hell out of it and loved it. Also owned a Genesis in early 1990 and loved it. We were a multi-console family. Actually, I stopped playing my Duo in mid 1995 and only played my SNES in that last half of the year before going on a gaming hiatus. PCE might be my favorite console, but I have love for the SNES and Genesis. The Saturn, PSX, and DC are second rate to these 16bit era consoles. And I still own a SNES, Genesis, PCE. I don't think my view is skewed.

[TR0N]

Splatter House/Splatter House 2, first few levels.


PCE                                               GENESIS







PCE                                               GENESIS

What no screen shots of splatterhouse on the fm town marty to compare ? Though i would assume that would be unfair since it's closer to the arcade original.

[blueraven]

I'm partial to the PCE version, because it was the first version I saw back when Splatterhouse came out. The shading looks better, but the colors in the Genny version look brighter.

[Tatsujin]

Though i would assume that would be unfair since it's closer to the arcade original.

it's quasi arcade ;)

[shubibiman]

Here you have it :

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/splatterhouse/splatterhouse.htm

[NecroPhile]

Mode 7. Yes, racers really did benefit from it - *but* beyond that it mostly force/gimmicky. Hell, look at SD3 with magic effects that 'emulate' mode 7's blockiness, but it's not even mode 7. It's just transparency layer with cell sized pixels. And it looks like ass. Yay! Looking like ass ftw!

Win to the nth power, though Zeta logic will translate this to mean that to the PCE has no equal to mode 7, ergo all mode 7 effects are lame. 

Actually, the PCE is capable of quite a few cool tricks and yet barely used by any developers and some were never used.

Pics and videos please. 

Splatter House/Splatter House 2, first few levels.

I know Splatterhouse is trying to match the arcade, but the brighter colors and better detail of Splatterhouse 2 make the Genny the clear winner of this comparison.

[awack]

Rest of the Splatterhouse screens, the only shot that i didn't take is the last splatterhouse 2 screen, I'm sure thats the last boss.



PCE                                               GENESIS

[TurboXray]

Hmm. Hard to say. The Genesis version tries to keep the similar look/style. (Just watched the whole play through of it). I'd have to say Genesis on this one based on the additional detail in the BG. It's more seemless. I like the shading on the PCE version more, but the Genesis version is decent - not too contrast-y. But as for the game itself, the PCE/TG overall. I like the story/bosses/game design/multiple paths/etc of the original over part 2. Some of the bosses in part 2 are kinda lame, especially the last boss. Music is better on the PCE version. Something about it is more edge-y/nervous feeling.

[nat]

Both games are grain-city, but Splatterhouse 2 on the Genesis takes graininess to a new level. So based on visuals alone, I'd vote Turbo. But I'd have to actually play S2 to offer any meaningful comparison.

[Ceti Alpha]

Both games are grain-city, but Splatterhouse 2 on the Genesis takes graininess to a new level. So based on visuals alone, I'd vote Turbo. But I'd have to actually play S2 to offer any meaningful comparison.

I agree, Splatterhouse 2 is quite grainy. The original game is pretty classic, so it's hard for me judge objectively.

[Joe Redifer]

I like the music more on the Turbo.  Some of the screens seem less harsh on the Turbo as well.  I have both games and I guess the original always kind of had a special place for me so I am not the best person to judge.

[CrackTiger]

Unlike Twin Cobra which was more or less even, I think that Daisenpu on HuCard is noticeably better looking than the still nice Mega Drive version. I actually like the orange dirt as it is. The HuCard version is closest to the arcade overall for what it's worth. I think that the PCE ports are colored/shaded nicer than the arcade at times. Here are some arcade screens from vgmuseum-











Popful Mail SFC has some very nice vibrant colors and great shading, but it's wasted on the painfully repetitive background patterning. In theory LoX 1 repeats pretty quick, but it always looks nice while it's just uncomfortable for me when actually playing Popful Mail. Too bad it couldn't have been a SFC CD game.



Although I wasn't crazy about Cotton back in the day, I've grown to appreciate the visuals in recent years. I quickly mastered it and moved on to other games. Since it only cost me $5 at a time when I was picking up lots of cheap Turbo games, it never had a chance to leave an impression on me the way that most Turbo games did. It didn't help that I also got Magical Chase for the same price at the same time and it could play in my Express.

The SFC version looks pretty good at first, until you start to pay attention to everything. The gaudy colors look like a GBA port of a SNES game. I'm surprised at how similar some of the compared details are.



I only rented Splatterhouse back in the day and have never grown attached to it. It looks much better than I remember in the screen shots. I always thought that the Genesis version was a major leap forward visually, but it now looks like it's more similar in a good way, retaining the gritty style. I prefer the less goofy/cartoony style of the original. Here are a couple arcade screen shots from klov.com-

[awack]

Strider.

PCE                                               Genesis




Shadow of the beast.

PCE, running


Mega Drive, running


Genesis, running


SNES, running




Some more Cotton.


                                                 PCE

                           



SNES





                             signofzeta

Can the SNES do color cycling of hardware transparencies?

Yes, there is a pretty good example of that during the last boss fight in Chrono Trigger.


I think most people agree that hand drawn animation/effects hold up better than do mode 7 effects, infact, i think there is only one 16bit game(snes,gensis,pce)  who's effects, pixel for pixel are still being used to this day.

[blueraven]

Strider I'm going to say genesis (*Dodges thrown cars, trashcans, JJ&Jeff Hu-cards, old pizza*). Colors are way brighter.

I have not played the PCE version yet, so I will try to withhold judgment until then.

PCE wins on Cotton & Shadow of teh Beast.

[awack]

I only rented Splatterhouse back in the day and have never grown attached to it.

I have strong feelings of nostalgia when it comes to splatterhouse for the pce and strider for the genesis, i was finally able to find the commercial for splatterhouse.

I think this is the best TG 16 commercial.

[blueraven]

I only rented Splatterhouse back in the day and have never grown attached to it.

I have strong feelings of nostalgia when it comes to splatterhouse for the pce and strider for the genesis, i was finally able to find the commercial for splatterhouse.

I think this is the best TG 16 commercial.

Awesome! That's an amazing commercial!

[Arkhan Asylum]

Strider I'm going to say genesis (*Dodges thrown cars, trashcans, JJ&Jeff Hu-cards, old pizza*). Colors are way brighter.

I have not played the PCE version yet, so I will try to withhold judgment until then.

PCE wins on Cotton & Shadow of teh Beast.

It looks better on the genesis to me too,

but it sure as hell plays better on the PCE lol


I demand more shadow of the beast comparisons.

[termis]

Ugh, yeah, PCE strider could've been so much more with just a couple minor fixes.  (sprite colors and a few control tweaks)

The redbook audio is frickin awesome though.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I only rented Splatterhouse back in the day and have never grown attached to it.

I have strong feelings of nostalgia when it comes to splatterhouse for the pce and strider for the genesis, i was finally able to find the commercial for splatterhouse.

I think this is the best TG 16 commercial.

Uh, I thought this was the commercial for Splatterhouse, but, in the description, it clearly says "TV Commercial for Sea World".

What kind of nonsense are you trying to pull Awack, where's the Splatterhouse commercial

Arkhan, you really gotta get over your love for Shadow of the Beast, that game is so easy, you just walk to the right, bash down the fortress door, & then ;laksetrjhlaiwehtoiawhsgsdgjklahsd fg  Shadow of the Beast is cool!

[awack]

Uh, I thought this was the commercial for Splatterhouse, but, in the description, it clearly says "TV Commercial for Sea World".

What kind of nonsense are you trying to pull Awack, where's the Splatterhouse commercial

I don't know if your kidding or being serious.

[Arkhan Asylum]

.
Arkhan, you really gotta get over your love for Shadow of the Beast, that game is so easy, you just walk to the right, bash down the fortress door, & then ;laksetrjhlaiwehtoiawhsgsdgjklahsd fg  Shadow of the Beast is cool!

its a great game!  The style of art and the overall theme are really dope! >_<

[ParanoiaDragon]

Uh, I thought this was the commercial for Splatterhouse, but, in the description, it clearly says "TV Commercial for Sea World".

What kind of nonsense are you trying to pull Awack, where's the Splatterhouse commercial

I don't know if your kidding or being serious.

I'm kidding around, though, if you look in his description, is does say it's a commercial for Sea World! 

.
Arkhan, you really gotta get over your love for Shadow of the Beast, that game is so easy, you just walk to the right, bash down the fortress door, & then ;laksetrjhlaiwehtoiawhsgsdgjklahsd fg  Shadow of the Beast is cool!

its a great game!  The style of art and the overall theme are really dope! >_<

I know it is, I agree with you, I was just messing, like when I said on IRC that you don't need to go to the left at the begining of the game, & that I just bust down the fortress door

BTW, I have another bunch of screens I'd like to see, Slime World(PCE) vs. Slime World (MD) vs. Slime World(Lynx)!

[_Paul]

I'd like to see those Strider sprites matched up with the arcade version, as the positions are all subtly different.

[blueraven]

  OMG, I forgot about the Arcade version. 

*Has flashback to the Video Arcade at the theater in his hometown*

 

[esteban]

I only rented Splatterhouse back in the day and have never grown attached to it.

I have strong feelings of nostalgia when it comes to splatterhouse for the pce and strider for the genesis, i was finally able to find the commercial for splatterhouse.

I think this is the best TG 16 commercial.

I never saw that aired on television. I wish I had, though!

[shubibiman]

Bump

http://www.gamopat-forum.com/les-debats-de-docteurs-en-gamotherapie-f16/le-jeu-snes-impossible-a-reproduire-sur-megadrive-t21340.htm?sid=6b01221dd13fb81332eae5c96b3a3821

[Joe Redifer]

Hi,

I speak English, which is the best language.  I do not benefit from inferior, non-English web pages.

Bye!

[shubibiman]

French is good for you ;)

[Arkhan Asylum]

Hi,

I speak English, which is the best language.  I do not benefit from inferior, non-English web pages.

Bye!

If its the best language, why are all the best games Japanese based?

[SignOfZeta]

Bump

http://www.gamopat-forum.com/les-debats-de-docteurs-en-gamotherapie-f16/le-jeu-snes-impossible-a-reproduire-sur-megadrive-t21340.htm?sid=6b01221dd13fb81332eae5c96b3a3821

Oh my God. I had no idea this shit was so multi-cultural. I want to buy the world a fucking Coke!

[nectarsis]

Bump

http://www.gamopat-forum.com/les-debats-de-docteurs-en-gamotherapie-f16/le-jeu-snes-impossible-a-reproduire-sur-megadrive-t21340.htm?sid=6b01221dd13fb81332eae5c96b3a3821

" Since everyone knows so well that Coregrafx II has a faster processor than the Coregrafx, etc. ... " 

[Joe Redifer]

If its the best language, why are all the best games Japanese based?

Ha ha they sure aren't any more.  My, how Japan has fallen in game development.  Anyway, Japanese students are forced to take English in school because it is the best language.

[shubibiman]

Bump

http://www.gamopat-forum.com/les-debats-de-docteurs-en-gamotherapie-f16/le-jeu-snes-impossible-a-reproduire-sur-megadrive-t21340.htm?sid=6b01221dd13fb81332eae5c96b3a3821

" Since everyone knows so well that Coregrafx II has a faster processor than the Coregrafx, etc. ... " 

This was just a joke, as many members on these forums DO believe that. Of course I know it's not the case ;)

[Arkhan Asylum]

If its the best language, why are all the best games Japanese based?

Ha ha they sure aren't any more.  My, how Japan has fallen in game development.  Anyway, Japanese students are forced to take English in school because it is the best language.

Oh and you're saying English games are better?

like what? ROCK BAND AND HAYLO?   Saying next gen English based games are the best isn't saying much really.  Most next gen games are worthless, unless you count PSP/DS, in which case the Japanese stuff is the only good stuff.

lol.

I think they're forced to take it so Japan is properly equipped to deal with this mess called 'Merica

[CrackTiger]

There are too many things to list, but other than a few reasonable people, those who didn't just say that "everything other than SNES sux -end of discussion" and literally exited the discussion, the rest have such misguided understandings of hardware and how games work that incorrect arguments are replied to with equally incorrect ones and it just snowballs.

I'm pretty sure someone said that it's only fair to compare Mode 7 effects to effects on Mega Drive only in cases where the SNES looks better. In general, the die hard SNES fans seem to think that the SNES is capable of any kind of scaling and rotation (Galaxy Force 2 was used an example of what only the SNES could do).

Guyome seems to think that ram = power and that it was the power to render larger sprites and such, not simply additional frames of animation that select Saturn games required a ram cart for.

I like how shubibiman called Guyome on the classic "transparencies only count when they're rendered by hardware" aka "I only count the stuff that makes my favorite console/game/etc look best".

Under 'Genesis pros', it looks like Joel ARRAULT basically said: "It has the arcade feel". Just awesome. He also literally called Guyome on the above mentioned cliche: "In fact the thing with you is that you speak only what suits you at a time "t", possibly obscuring everything else."

Someone should mention that the SuperGrafx Axelay demo includes several additional PCE roms that do the same effect. That Axelay demo could be reproduced identical on PC Engine with the criss-crossed bars merged onto the other layer or possibly appearing to be double layered using animated tiles.

I think that the fact that the topic was "THE SNES game impossible to reproduce on Megadrive" and not "SNES & MD games impossible to reproduce on the other" sums up the intended bias.

[Joe Redifer]

Oh and you're saying English games are better?

like what? ROCK BAND AND HAYLO?  

Nonono, like Burnout Paradise, Uncharted and the like.  I only have a couple of Japanese-developed games for this generation and I'll be damned if I can remember what they are.

I think they're forced to take [English] so Japan is properly equipped to deal with this mess called 'Merica

Because we're a force to be reckoned with!  You can't exist in the world without dealing with America!  Anyway since I am not Canadian I cannot read those forums.  Am I the only PCEFX forum member who cannot understand French?  Spanish will soon be America's main language.

[SignOfZeta]

Oh and you're saying English games are better?

like what? ROCK BAND AND HAYLO?   Saying next gen English based games are the best isn't saying much really.  Most next gen games are worthless, unless you count PSP/DS, in which case the Japanese stuff is the only good stuff.

I think his point was that 15 years ago if you asked anyone what their favorite game was, they would pretty much only answer with something that was Japanese unless it was Madden or a licensed game (and many of the licensed games were also Japanese). Now this is certainly not the case. American games used to be a total fucking joke...a joke that wasn't even funny. I can't think of one NES-era American game that was good, and I can name very few SNES-era ones. There are only a couple of US developed TG-16 games, and they are shit. But now US games are much better, and innovation/charm/sales in Japan has dropped off big-time. The big titles in America are Rock Band, Halo, and GTA whereas they used to be Mario, Sonic, Tekken, Ridge Racer, etc. Now even people in Japan are buying crap like GTA and everyone hates Sonic. Mario games, for some reason, only come out every 5 years or so now.

I don't personally care for much of anything being made these days, certainly not on consoles, but the sad fact is that western developers are at the forefront of the industry, sales-wise, and I can't think of much coming from Japan that I'd recommend as an alternative.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yeah I know, im just bustin his balls.

I personally, and no offense to anyone who is French, cant stand the way it sounds. 

As for modern games, ... bah.    They all suck half the time anymore.  Its always a 50/50 chance anymore.  Uncharted sure did kick ass though.

Hell look at the Wii, in 1995 if anyone said "in 15 years Nintendo's going to have the most worthless game library on the most overrated console ever", people would've slapped the crap out of em.

At least its FINALLY getting past the stupid Wii mote gimmick stage, and real games are appearing.  Boy and His Blob rules.

[Joe Redifer]

Bustin' my balls is OK and appreciated!

I just think it is interesting how game development has changed.  Japan hasn't offered much recently, though I am impressed with Ninja Gaiden 2 on the PS3.  I wish they would offer more stuff as they usually provide a simpler and more direct approach to gaming.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Bustin' my balls is OK and appreciated!

I just think it is interesting how game development has changed.  Japan hasn't offered much recently, though I am impressed with Ninja Gaiden 2 on the PS3.  I wish they would offer more stuff as they usually provide a simpler and more direct approach to gaming.

simpler and more direct = WII

wii do not want to play.

lol

[NecroPhile]

There are only a couple of US developed TG-16 games, and they are shit.

Yeah, like Beyond Shadowgate, It Came From the Desert, Order of the Griffon, and Camp California. 

[Arkhan Asylum]

There are only a couple of US developed TG-16 games, and they are shit.

Yeah, like Beyond Shadowgate, It Came From the Desert, Order of the Griffon, and Camp California. 

order of the griffon is so excellent.  Its got all the PC goldbox flair without all the crapass load times and manual referencing