The Search for the Turbo CD Gear

Twood1130 · 11/11/2010, 08:16 PM

I recently bought myself a turbografx 16 with the the cd add-on. When I started using the CD drive, it shredded its gear.

I have been looking inside of old CD players hoping to find a working alternative. At the same time i am trying to get a new gear made for me by various companies.

I figured as far as finding one, i could scavenge one from a Sony discman, seeing as how the turbo cd is basically a Sony discman itself.
After opening a discman 131, I found a similar gear, but it didnt have a spindle hole.

After that failed I checked ebay for cheap sony cd players from around 1989, and found that the things are actually worth more than i had imagined. Im not about to spend 30 dollars on a maybe.

Has anyone else found a suitable gear in something? Or maybe you have an old discman you can check for the gear and post the model number.

BlueBMW · 11/11/2010, 08:22 PM

Ahh the elusive Turbo CD gear... As far as I know, no one has found a suitable replacement yet. Your best bet is to find a broken Turbo CD that has a bad motherboard (theres a few of them out there) and then shuffle the two together. There has been some talk of having a gear reproduced, but I think they've proven too expensive to produce on such a small scale.

Twood1130 · 11/11/2010, 08:47 PM

I was talking to a company called print to 3d, he gave me a rough estimate of under 100 dollars, but he wasnt quite sure until he could see it. I havent sent out the remains of my gear yet. (it has a couple teeth left)

BlueBMW · 11/11/2010, 10:14 PM

Quote from: Twood1130 on 11/11/2010, 08:47 PMI was talking to a company called print to 3d, he gave me a rough estimate of under 100 dollars, but he wasnt quite sure until he could see it. I havent sent out the remains of my gear yet. (it has a couple teeth left)

I've been meaning to try and measure and 3d model the gear in hopes of getting it produced somewhere. Let us know how your 3d printing goes. I've seen stereo-lithography before. Its pretty neat, but I'm not sure how well it does something as small as that gear.

Alternatively.. find yourself a nice Duo-R and region mod the thing

BTW, welcome to the site!

Frank_fjs · 11/11/2010, 10:21 PM

I think you just have to be a little creative. I've heard of people drilling and gluing gears together in order to create a working gear.

My CD-ROM unit has a bastardised gear in it. It's a little noisy but it will last forever.

Twood1130 · 11/11/2010, 11:08 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 11/11/2010, 10:14 PMAlternatively.. find yourself a nice Duo-R and region mod the thing

I might have to do that, a duo-r would pretty much solve the whole issue.
Although it irks me to have the whole TG-16 and CD and not have it work.

BlueBMW · 11/12/2010, 12:00 AM

Quote from: Twood1130 on 11/11/2010, 11:08 PMI might have to do that, a duo-r would pretty much solve the whole issue.
Although it irks me to have the whole TG-16 and CD and not have it work.

It is annoying having a broken CDROM, but you aren't alone! Once you've gone duo though....

Game-Tech.US · 11/14/2010, 08:19 PM

If anyone needs help with a large order of the gears i'm in, I need at least a dozen. I have working units, but i'd rather place a new gear in them to sell them.

SignOfZeta · 11/14/2010, 08:34 PM

Yeah, anyone who finds the way to get these made and only lacks the funds should PM me too.

blueraven · 11/14/2010, 09:38 PM

I'm in for a group order. I could use at least a half dozen.

staxx · 11/14/2010, 11:32 PM

I wouldn't mind 6 myself. Gotta wait, see and hope.

SignOfZeta · 11/15/2010, 01:03 PM

I wouldn't mind having 100 of the things laying around, depending on what they cost. I only actually have one CDROM2 that's broken, but I'm sure that if we manage to get the gear made that we'll have no problem getting rid of at least a couple hundred of them eventually. It might take 10 years, but they'll get used up.

Duo_R · 11/15/2010, 06:33 PM

if there is someone that has access to a 3d printer at an art school that might be the way to go. Or what about Ben Heck? Doesn't he have access to one of those???

SignOfZeta · 11/15/2010, 08:59 PM

IP is the way to go. Stuff that gets made with rapid prototypers is usually pretty fragile and, in the case of a tiny gear, might need so much clean up you might as well just hand carve the thing out of resin.

Does anyone actually have a gear that's been removed, in tact? We kind of need one of those to start with.

BlueBMW · 11/15/2010, 09:13 PM

I used to design and build plastic injection molds... If only I still worked in that shop I could have probably knocked together a small mold to make these.... normal retail cost of such a mold would be prohibitive though.

blueraven · 11/15/2010, 09:32 PM

I have a Gear.

I'm going to a machine shop this week to see how much it will cost to have them done in Aluminum, and in PVC.

They use cMake I think to render the gear in a a 3D enviro, then they "print" it.

Cast it might be more. We'll see.

SignOfZeta · 11/15/2010, 10:38 PM

IP would be really expensive to set up, but cheaper per-gear the more gears we make. If you only want 10 gears the 3D printing would be best. If you want 1000, IP would be best.

I think making them out of metal is a bad idea. The original gear didn't break because it was worked so hard, it broke because it got old and dried up and brittle. If we make these new gears from metal...I have a feeling we'll be looking for reproductions of the other two gears before too long since they'l be obliterated by the metal one.

Nylon or delrin is probably best.

BlackandBlue · 11/16/2010, 10:37 PM

Quote from: Frank_fjs on 11/11/2010, 10:21 PMI've heard of people drilling and gluing gears together in order to create a working gear.

Thats what I did with my white cdrom2. But, if someone goes through with this, I would be down for some....

Twood1130 · 11/17/2010, 12:19 AM

I think the first thing we need is an accurate diagram, or cad document of the gear. That way we can get quotes from various companies.

Duo_R · 11/20/2010, 06:15 PM

Not sure if you guys realize it, but making a new gear has been discussed a ton in the past. If someone manages to finally make a gear, my hat is off to you....

Quote from: Tatsujin on 12/17/2007, 12:52 AMSo, i finally measured the gear wheel and hope the result contains sufficient inforations to clone the wheel. sorry for the pathetic drawing and amateurish presentation

/gearwheel1nj2.jpg

and now, let's do it

nat · 11/21/2010, 02:36 PM

Right. We've been discussing this for 3+ years now, but as yet no one has found a place to actually get the gear manufactured.

Twood1130 · 11/22/2010, 06:15 PM

If i had this gear in a cad document , it would be much easier to get quotes

BlueBMW · 11/22/2010, 07:46 PM

Somewhere I've got a copy of solidworks.... If I can find it I'll draw it up.

Official Ninja · 11/29/2010, 12:04 PM

Bumping this. I'm also interested in a gear. I've been opening up random older portable CD players and older CD-rom PC drives and so far no match.

Official Ninja · 12/01/2010, 10:02 AM

Long story short, both me and my brother work in manufacturing at the same company. He is a designer I am a lead man in manufacturing on CNC mill machines.

Hes not a trubografx fan, but today I showed him the above drawing of the gear and asked what he thought about getting one made or making some our selves. He is going to draw up the gear and get quotes from gear makers and prototype manufacturers. Being in the buisness we know who to call. I am also looking at tooling as I really think once a drawing is made I can make gears one at a time on the mill, maybe "sneak" a few dozen or so in every week to the machine tools. We have plenty of UHMW.

Anyway I told him we couple probably sell a couple hundred of them as return on investment. Do you guys think that is a fair statement? What is the general opinion on what people might be willing to pay for the gear. This way we can get an idea of where to go with the project.

Also, if we go with a molding option, we would need a good gear. I do not currently have a working CD-drive, but I'll worry about that if I have to.

Frank_fjs · 12/01/2010, 10:38 AM

Quote from: Official Ninja on 12/01/2010, 10:02 AMAnyway I told him we couple probably sell a couple hundred of them as return on investment. Do you guys think that is a fair statement? What is the general opinion on what people might be willing to pay for the gear. This way we can get an idea of where to go with the project.

I don't see you having any trouble selling them. A lot of people have broken CD units, which can cost up to $100, so spending a few dollars to fix an otherwise useless and expensive piece of hardware makes a lot of sense.

I'd be comfortable paying around $5 for a gear. I'd go up to $10 if the gear was a perfect fit, well constructed and guaranteed to last many years.

Duo_R · 12/01/2010, 10:41 AM

I dot have a tg-cd anymore but would buy some for repairs / future purchase. If we make progress on this that would be awesome.

BlueBMW · 12/01/2010, 10:51 AM

You must be better at milling than I was. Tiny stuff like these gears are tough. If I had to make an injection mold for it though... Id probably EDM the cavity and use an ejector sleeve with a core pin. Of course that gets costly!

What do you intend to machine them out of?

Official Ninja · 12/01/2010, 11:02 AM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 12/01/2010, 10:51 AMYou must be better at milling than I was. Tiny stuff like these gears are tough. If I had to make an injection mold for it though... Id probably EDM the cavity and use an ejector sleeve with a core pin. Of course that gets costly!

What do you intend to machine them out of?

If I was to mill them, I'd use UHMW. Delrin is also an option, its less gummy, much more brittle, but might work good, I dont know. Delrin does have a built in lubrication.

As for milling, we have some Cincinnati Arrows that would have no trouble doing this work. The main problem is the time, a cutter this small would need to be stepped in, running around the gear quite a few times until reaching final size.

Marll · 12/01/2010, 01:57 PM

I'd be interested in a gear. I've had my CD unit since about 1990-91 or so, and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before that gear breaks.

henrycsc · 12/01/2010, 06:11 PM

OK Guys,
Using Duo_R 's measurements, I made an AutoCAD drawing.

Some stuff I had to ballpark, so we may want to get all the red dimensions confirmed before anyone does any ordering off this drawing! Also, because the spokes are even on large side / odd on small side, I didn't know if they actually lined up anywhere (I assumed they did). It probably doesn't matter, but I wanted to point that out too, just in case.

And the 3D rendering:

/gear1.jpg

If anyone wants the CAD file or a .pdf of the dimensions, just PM me your email address.

Frank_fjs · 12/01/2010, 08:38 PM

Nicely done, Henry.

chop5 · 12/01/2010, 11:25 PM

I'm so close its ridiculous!
The middle gear has those small metal donuts holding it in place,once lifted with a small needle the gear came right off and its axel popped off with a gentle pull with pliers. The gear motor's gear just lifted off with a push up with a screwdriver. The gear in the long worm gear could not be removed so i tried to work around it.

Only problem with that gear is its hole is too wide. I need one just right so I'm searching all over. (busts open alarm clock)

I originally wanted to use a belt drive like this unit:

but need more parts.

I have a original broken gear removed but no way to measure it. If someone has the equipment i can send it there way.

henrycsc · 12/02/2010, 05:40 PM

I don't know if a company like this is legit, but found it through a google search:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/338997518/Nylon_Gear_Wheels.html
To get the $0.01 price, you'd probably have to order more than NEC did.

Official Ninja · 12/06/2010, 09:35 AM

My plans to make this gear are on hold for now. We had decided to cast the gears and had all the materials ready to order. Problem is I need a gear to make a mold of the gear. I got a cd player that supposedly had the same laser assembly (KS162) but my bad luck was it was a newer revision and had a totally different assembly (KS220).
So, I'll keep checking to get one eventually. Until I get one I cant mold it.

Twood1130 · 12/07/2010, 07:04 PM

Quote from: Official Ninja on 12/06/2010, 09:35 AMMy plans to make this gear are on hold for now. We had decided to cast the gears and had all the materials ready to order. Problem is I need a gear to make a mold of the gear.

What were you going to make them out of?

Official Ninja · 12/08/2010, 09:52 AM

Quote from: Twood1130 on 12/07/2010, 07:04 PM
Quote from: Official Ninja on 12/06/2010, 09:35 AMMy plans to make this gear are on hold for now. We had decided to cast the gears and had all the materials ready to order. Problem is I need a gear to make a mold of the gear.
What were you going to make them out of?

We have a few different plastics to try. However, im learning that you can find a discman that has the same laser as the turbo-cd drive, but none of them use the same gear drive. So unless I some how come by a gear, I can't make a mold.

I have laid out and drawn the gear in cad/cam. I even made some round blanks on the lathe. I need to invest in a few tools for making a fixture and cutting the part. I just got an excellent duo-r so I don't really have the money / motivation at the moment.

SignOfZeta · 12/08/2010, 04:08 PM

blueraven said he has a gear. You seem to have the know-how. Lets get it done!

kid_rondeau · 12/08/2010, 05:57 PM

Yeah, I'm with Zeta...this could be huge!!

Official Ninja · 12/09/2010, 07:35 AM

Well, if anyone would like to let us borrow a gear to make a mold, that would be great. (We being myself and my brother in engineering) We plan to make a mold, cast a gear, test it, cast a few more, and then make a multi gear mold out of more expensive material. This way, with the more expensive mold material, we can cast hundreds before the mold is used up. Of course the disclaimer is the same with anything in the manufacturing process. Things can go wrong, so its a risk to whoever donates the gear. I've seen machine heads dive into work pieces that cost thousands and thousands of dollars.

But, I don't see much trouble with molding a little gear.

Here is a pic of the gear all programmed for the CNC machine in our CAD/CAM. If I ever order some small carbide cutters, I'm going to try to cut one someday.

SignOfZeta · 12/09/2010, 09:01 AM

...that doesn't look right. The teeth are 1/8 the thickness of the gap between them. They should be more or less equal, unless I'm missing something.

Official Ninja · 12/09/2010, 09:14 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 12/09/2010, 09:01 AM...that doesn't look right. The teeth are 1/8 the thickness of the gap between them. They should be more or less equal, unless I'm missing something.

Its hard to see with the angle, and everything is very small, the corner radius are only .002, but your right the pressure angle has to change, thats a rough layout. Going to do that later, layout was to see what tools I need.

BlueBMW · 12/09/2010, 10:15 AM

Nothing quite like using 0.010" cutters

. Speeds and feeds

kid_rondeau · 12/09/2010, 02:29 PM

All right, hell...
I have a spare TG-CD I'm not using, and the gear is definitely not shredded. Since I want to see this go ahead, I'm willing to offer up my spare so you can extract/mold the offending gear. I believe your method could work.

PM me if you're serious about this and we'll talk.

BlueBMW · 12/09/2010, 09:38 PM

alternatively.... I gave blueraven a working (albeit not 100%) turbo CD unit. The gear in it was fine, it was something motherboard causing the unit to require a long warm up time. If he's through with it, maybe he could offer that one to the chopper.

Is yours fully functional kid_rondeau?

kid_rondeau · 12/09/2010, 09:55 PM

Blue,
Yes, my spare is fully functional except for that if it's been idle for more than a week or two it needs to have the sled motor "jolted" with a 9V battery and the gears cleaned and lubed. Otherwise it kind of "sticks", and the sled motor can't move, so it gives the false impression that the CD player itself doesn't work.

I jolted and cleaned this one less than two weeks ago.

SignOfZeta · 12/09/2010, 11:40 PM

Um...I'd suggest not doing that!

Frank_fjs · 12/10/2010, 07:18 AM

Right, you should hook the 9v battery up to your nipples and whilst shocking yourself, touch the sled motor with your tongue. Basic electronics 101.

Official Ninja · 12/10/2010, 08:47 AM

I'd prefer a gear from a non-working unit only for the reason that should something go wrong, it didn't work anyway. Still, I haven't ruined anything making a mold of it in the past, and I don't see much of a problem.

I am very serious about molding this gear. No bull shit. So, if anyone wants to offer up a gear, PM me and I'll even give you my phone number so we can talk. I know when you talk to someone and know they are for real about it, it helps.

SignOfZeta · 12/10/2010, 04:37 PM

I only have a shattered one, and one I'm too paranoid to part with it (since it might very well shatter being removed). I know there are people here with TG-16 CDs or PCE CDROM2s that are dead for other reasons than the gears. Come on people!