A surgestion regarding new members and the Post sale threads issue

[TGX16]

Ther seem to be a problem with new members making their first post a salepost! and after that nothing.
So in that respect in another thread I've made a sugestion, but here seem to be a better place to make it!

Perhaps a  new rule on the forum is in order then too make this problem less in the future?

1.You'll have to have been a member in the forum for say 3 months
2.Made at least 25 posts during that time
3.Made yourself known in a "Introduce yourself" thread?
4.Not posting Ebay links (witch is'nt realy a salethread is it?)*
And after this initiation you get the right to post sell, buy and trade threads!

*) Regarding this, I do not think that Ebaylinks should be allowed to be posted as sale posts!
    If I wanted to buy from Ebay I'll go to Ebay! If I want to buy from a fellow member I come here!
    We should make pcengine-fx.com a EBAY free zone ( Do this start a storm in a waterglass? ;D )

[Joe Redifer]

The only things that could be automated in the forum software are the first two.  Not sure about the second spamming requirement (because that is what you'd probably get), but the first option sounds good.

[NecroPhile]

Can a challenge system be added to the registration process to weed out the occasional spambot?  That'd be nice too.

[PCEngineFX]

So personally, I don't really see a problem with new members making sale posts, but I'm fully open to hear more feedback against this practice.

As far as the spambot issue is concerned, I can look into changing the registration process to prevent them from getting in.

[MotherGunner]

Aaron, I think the evidence across all the threads in question speak for themselves.  If you haven't reviewed them, I would suggest you are out of touch with your community.  The community here is simply not happy about this practice and thus proposing a change in the rules.  We are looking towards you to provide leadership on this.   

It all comes down to trust.  We don't trust people like that, and we trust you to do the right thing.

[PCEngineFX]

I am fully open to any kind of changes, that is why I am asking for more information.  From my view, I don't see any problem with someone registering with the sole intent of posting an ebay auction.  In fact, I welcome it as it gives people here a heads up on NEC related auctions.

[MotherGunner]

Again, I say if you need more information at this point, you are simply out of touch with your community.

If you don't want to "Lead the way" and appease to the general consensus on your site and do right by us, then make it a rule that people can come here, do their one post and never come back again so the rest of us can just stfu.

[henrycsc]

I have to say I agree with Aaron on this.  It is just as simple to not read a sales post if you are bothered by it being a new member. 
Would it be possible to list the member's number of posts next to their name  (for instance mine might be henrycsc(345) ) so that users would see without opening a thread that it was started by someone with little or no time invested in the forum.  Just a thought.

[MotherGunner]

That's what this community gets for seeking out guidance from its leader and asking him to do the right thing.  The moral of the story:  SCREW TRUST!

Btw making it a rule is for the regulars here not for new "members".  Aaron should make it a rule so WE, the people that have a problem with it can stfu.
 
I said my piece and it feels like it fell on death ears so I am officially shutting tfu about it at this point.

Good Idea, I officially want to change my name and post ONLY 23 times so I can be Johnny 23

[nectarsis]

Mother is far from alone in this annoyance.  Make it 50-100 posts to post a sales thread most 1 and done peeps wouldn't go thru the effort. ;)  Plus it would become obvious pretty quickly if people were spam posting to reach that total if they felt it was worth their time to sell here.   I mean we have 1912 total members here. Take out the spam bots, random banned members you still have a TON of no posts to almost none, or those that have left long ago.   When you see all the gouging attempts, or people that join JUST to post ebay links/sell and that's it...makes it feel like a flea market here IMO.

[PCEngineFX]

MG: Your request isn't falling on deaf ears...if it was, I wouldn't be talking here, would I?  Second of all, chill out and relax.  No decision has been made on my part as of yet so again, chill.  Third, I totally agree I am out of touch with my own forum and you know why?  It is because I don't have the time or the inclination to follow everything that goes on here, that is why I was asking for feedback. 

Now lets say that new users had a post count they had to hit before posting... So I can see this as being a nightmare as we would then see a flood of junk or "me too" posts.  So this would be better than one sales post from a new member?

[MotherGunner]

Aaron, I am relaxed but I don't think you realized how you came across either.  The sense of urgency to address this is just not there and that's why tension are high on this issue.  This is how perceptions arise.  Again, I don't want to debate this anymore.  You know where I stand and NEC did a great job of answering your question above. 

Thanks for your time.

[SignOfZeta]

Again, I say if you need more information at this point, you are simply out of touch with your community.

Well, its a complex community. I've been on this forum for a lot longer than most members, but sometimes if I take a few months off from daily reading I'll have no idea WTF people are talking about when I come back.

If you don't want to "Lead the way" and appease to the general consensus on your site and do right by us, then make it a rule that people can come here, do their one post and never come back again so the rest of us can just stfu.

I may be misunderstanding this, but are you saying that you either want a rule banning the spammer scum (who, I agree, are shit heads) or you want a rule formally legitimizing them so that people can't complain about them without themselves breaking the rules?

I think you spent too much time in the military. Seriously. Sometimes life is open ended, and you have to find your own way.

The system we have works fine, IMO. They show up spamming overpriced eBay auctions and we verbally rip them a new one. There are enough responsible citizens here to share the work load. The only downside is that sometimes over half the posts on any given day are devoted to this instead of actual PCE/PCFX related talk. But then, if we didn't have these assholes to complain about, what else would be be posting about?

[NecroPhile]

From my view, I don't see any problem with someone registering with the sole intent of posting an ebay auction.  In fact, I welcome it as it gives people here a heads up on NEC related auctions. 

We receive zero benefit when someone posts links to ebay auctions, as we all know what ebay is and how to use its search function.  That said, there's no harm in posting links to good auctions (those that aren't R4R3 L@@K!! gougefests); the problem lies in people trying to screw members with overpriced goods and misleading descriptions, then getting all indignant when called on the carpet.  We could just ignore the clowns and move on (as the offending party usually begs), but that would be a disservice to less savvy members that don't know any better, so it turns into an pissing match about whether or not the prices are fair and goes downhill from there - usually with the speed of a runaway freight train coming down the Rockies.

..... make it a rule that people can come here, do their one post and never come back again so the rest of us can just stfu.

Making a rule to specifically allow an action is silly.  If it's not disallowed by the rules, then it is allowed.

[MotherGunner]

Zeta, I haven't been in the military in a decade just so you know. My point was driven out of my need to be facetious and as you also know tone never comes across well in writing. 

On any given day I reserve the right to be an asshole and it has nothing to do with the military.  I was like this as a teen.  I do agree with you that they are scum and my suggestion while silly gave people something to talk about right?  Let's also agree that there is very little PCE/TG talk going on nowadays and if this is the only "action" that people are relegated to by all means.  You are right I don't have to read the posts, but I do since I am a saavy shopper and come here for the better deals.   NecroPhile, point taken.

I could go on and on but I am at a disadvantage as I don't have the same drive that would cause you, or guys like Sini and Mike to keep this argument going.

Let's agree that we agree on somethings and disagree on others and hope we can all be adults about it.

Thanks

[SignOfZeta]

Making a rule to specifically allow an action is silly.  If it's not disallowed by the rules, then it is allowed.

Ah, yes. Gell-Mann's Totalitarian Principle as it applies to forum etiquette.

[turbogrfxfan]

It used to bother me when people would come on here and gouge but to tell the truth I reallt dont care.  Im not forced to buy from them and I dont.  I would get kicked out of the f*&^ ebay club if I did   I dunno how bout new sellers have to sell on just one thread. "enter at own risk"  And if they rip u off like I was then its ur fault. And also anybody that dosent want to read what they have for sale avoids the thread.

[VestCunt]

Even though half of them are junk I do like the quantity of sales posts.  And like Zeta said, it's always something to talk/bitch about.  Because of this I wouldn't want to limit the entry requirements for the sales forum too much, but I think something like a 2-3 week probationary period for new members is a good idea and in line with other forums like Digipress.  

Like I said today in the sales forum, when clueless but potentially well-intended sellers show up operating under the dominant ebay paradigm their sales thread instantly degenerates into Fighting Street.  A two-week probationary period would help separate the noobs from the sharks by giving people who are actually interested in NEC consoles and our community time to read some posts, see the other sellers who've been chewed out, and start to realize that the non-ebay market is quite a bit different.  Thus, the benefit isn't so much weeding out the price gougers who would simply register and wait two weeks (although it would cut down on the ones looking for faster-than-ebay cash), but protecting the noobs who might actually be decent people.  We all have strong feeling when it comes to price gouging and when new members post in the sales forum their first impression of pcenginefx is often a very negative one.  I love seeing Zeta and NecroPhile rip gougers "a new one,"  but I've also seen salesmen who I thought were reasonable and friendly attempt to defend themselves from vicious, profanity-strewn diatribes by the likes of Michael Hegelson.

Finally, there are also a fair number of "wtb" first posts in the sales forums along the lines of "Hi, help me complete my collection!  I'll pay anything!" which are a pet peeve of mine and I'd like to make the next RoyVegas-style collector jump a couple hurdles first.

Now lets say that new users had a post count they had to hit before posting... So I can see this as being a nightmare as we would then see a flood of junk or "me too" posts.  So this would be better than one sales post from a new member?

Agreed.

[PunkCryborg]

Having a minimum post count in the buy/sell forum might make it hard though for new members and collectors to be able to make requests for games and hardware though. I know it personally helped me make a couple of good deals with other members who had extras.

[SignOfZeta]

I think it would a good idea to just have one of our more eloquent regular people/mods write up a thing for dumpers to read before they dump. Something that says,

"Beware. Ask top dollar from these OGs and you'll get barked at. If you want eBay money for games, just take it to eBay."

Make it a sticky and be done with it. At least these guy won't be so surprised when we rip them a new one.

[MotherGunner]

Zeta, that's actually a good idea.   I have since gotten over how I felt about these things too.

[DragonmasterDan]

I think producing a price list contributes to this as well, that way people in buy/sell won't be as taken offguard by the negative reaction they get when using only racketboy as an asking price reference.

[tggodfrey]

This is a sore subject for most forums.  I ran an automotive forum and there are always people posting FS threads with the goal of ripping people off.  I set a post count requirement of 25 posts.  This worked for most everything but new members with little troubleshooting experience this was an issue because they really could add to material we already posted.  Some guys I had to help out and boost their post count myself in the administrator panel but that was a rare case for someone who had been there months and had over 60 logins each month and spent time in Chat.  Rare case because "normal" admins cant watch the board like I did.

     On a forum like this I dont see it working, what do you want a new member to post about?  In this forum, being a new member I really dont know what you expect me to post.  I know very little in terms of any troubleshooting/repair and honestly the only games I am familiar with are the ones I had when the systems were new.  All games i am sure you guys know better than I do.  I joined after reading some of the troubleshooting info and I am not one to waste 25 posts, posting responses to threads like "good info".  So you can see where a post requirement would be difficult and I agree you want people using the FS section to be members that will stay with the community not just come and go.

     Introduction forums should be a requirement.  I was surprised to find there wasnt one here and didnt want to just post anywhere.

     You could split the WTB and FS forums up and only allow new members to post WTB ads.  That would prevent some people from trying to come here to scam people.  As far as prices, you cant regulate that.  What a unit is worth to one person may not be worth to another.  Someone made a comment to me that Ebay prices are higher due to the security you get on ebay.  What security is that?  you get to file a complaint big deal.  If you paid with a money order all Ebay can do is suspend their account and they can create another.  There is no security there.  I dont like seeing the US Duo getting the same cost it was new but the problem isnt the people asking the prices its people willing to pay it.  For someone like me, if i want one, i might have to pay that or not get one.....sucks to be me.  You can go around educating people that they should not pay that but you cant regulate it.   Jumping on people cases is rediculous, its easy to be billy-badass on the internet and just not necassary.

Terry

[NecroPhile]

On a forum like this I dont see it working, what do you want a new member to post about?  In this forum, being a new member I really dont know what you expect me to post.  I know very little in terms of any troubleshooting/repair and honestly the only games I am familiar with are the ones I had when the systems were new.  All games i am sure you guys know better than I do. 

If people don't want to discuss games, why are they here?

[tggodfrey]

Well in my case, to read a lot of the troubleshooting info so I am more informed as to what repairs are needed.  To buy games and even sell any doubles I may get in the process.  To ask questions as I have them.  I am not saying people arent here to discuss games but a newbie like me prolly doesnt have much to offer and honestly i am sure my questions will get annoying since they are pretty basic at this point.  Many questions can be solved through searching, my pet peeve is someone that doesn't bother to search before asking and I know I do it sometimes as well.

For me you guys are a great help with advise as far as what to offer for games ect.  I appreciate the help so far.

I am just saying it would be difficult for someone looking to get back into the platform if a post count was required to buy from people here, thats all.

Terry