Retrocade Future

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 12:28 AM

Ok, So, I've been doing some thinking.

The PCE homebrew scene has undergone a bit of a change since 2008-9. A positive one!

We've got a bunch of new projects in the works from all kinds of people (sweet). Squirrel 3.0 is on the rise (coming very soon. As soon as the Protocards finish their final tests and get out the door)... so here's the thing:

Pyramid Plunder has been just about done since June, and stalled right there while the HuCard's happened, and some other shit (school. holidays. snow.) So, here are some options I was thinking about in the interest of advancing things.

1) We continue working on Retrocade as planned, waiting to release it until every game is done.
2) We polish up Pyramid Plunder, get it all 100% ship-shape, and press that bitch and sell it instead of sitting on it for who knows how long. Then, Atlantean gets released next (possibly to HuCard), since it is the main focus now. It will be pretty spiffy, probably to the tune of Galaga 88 vs. Galaga. Will definitely be able to stand on it's own.

After that, the REST of the Retrocade games get finished and released as ROMs, free of charge for you guys. This means Jungle Hunt, Joust, and the Skate or Die Ramp.

Once everything planned is done, we release the pressed-Retrocade with all of the games + a few extra things to set them apart from the freebie roms so it's worth buying + all the games that appeared on the Protocards, with some tweaks as well.

I feel method 2 is the best plan. It gets this stuff out to people to play and talk about instead of speculating about them and seeing screenshots of stuff. I want games out there, not .bmp's.

The price of the CDs will probably be cheaper than Insanity since the general vibe I got was that 30$ was too much money. Assuming we go with Plan 2, I expect to drop Insanity's price again as well.

So, what's everyone think?

In any event, the Protocards will be ready to go to you people in the very near future. Like, before St. Pattys Day. Hell, before the end of February, I hope.

They work. The menu is made, the games are done... we're just making sure there aren't any retarded bugs or stupid "oops" things in them that would really make it kinda lame to sell in that state. We COULD sell the things like, now, but what would end up happening is someone will go HEY ASSHOLE, LOOK AT THIS BUG, and we'd look stupid.

DISCUSS.

Opethian · 02/15/2012, 12:31 AM

sign me up for hueycardos!!!!!!

nat · 02/15/2012, 12:44 AM

Here's my humble, unimportant opinion:

Option 3 - Release PP as a free ROM/ISO to the community once it's satisfactory. Continue work on Atlantean, release when finished as a commercial CD or AbCard. Continue work on the other Retrocade games at your leisure, releasing each one as a free ROM/ISO as they are completed. Once the entire Retrocade suite has been finished and released as freeware, bundle them all (including PP) into a nice professionally packaged and pressed disc and sell. This will have two benefits: it will keep people interested by having shorter durations between releases, and you might even get some feedback on some of the Retrocade titles you could incorporate into the final, "commercial" release.

Oh, and this option keeps Atlantean separate from the Retrocade, completely. I'm not sure if that was the plan all along or not, but it sounds like it's capable of standing on its own.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 12:47 AM

Hmm.

What makes you say release PP as a freebie as well?? Out of curiosity.

Mishran · 02/15/2012, 12:54 AM

Would love to see Atlantean released as a stand alone game, especially on huey, but the rest I can wait on until they are done. Why release Pyramid Plunder on its own disc and then repress it along with the rest of Retrocade on one disc? Seems like a waste of time and money to me, to be honest. If that were the route taken, I'd likely wait until Retrocade is released to obtain PP since it'll be more bang for the buck.

I'd also like to see some sort of PCE release of Insanity X. The character being able to move at a faster pace makes the game more enjoyable. Hard to avoid enemy shots in close quarters with the slower 'Insanity' character. Especially when the game places you square in the middle of 4 or more enemies that fire at you as soon as the room appears on screen. Lost many a life from that situation...

Even would be happy with a ISO patch that could be applied to a rip of the disc to play in an emulator or burn to a disc for some real hardware love.

Sadler · 02/15/2012, 12:55 AM

I voted release it all ASAP. I'd really like to see a new hucard release! When everything's done it'd be cool to be able to get a pressed disc with everything on it.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 12:58 AM

Quote from: Mishran on 02/15/2012, 12:54 AMWould love to see Atlantean released as a stand alone game, especially on huey, but the rest I can wait on until they are done. Why release Pyramid Plunder on its own disc and then repress it along with the rest of Retrocade on one disc? Seems like a waste of time and money to me, to be honest. If that were the route taken, I'd likely wait until Retrocade is released to obtain PP since it'll be more bang for the buck.

When you consider that you'd be getting like, 8 games for like 30$, the fact that you already bought PP probably wouldn't matter much, I don't think at least.

QuoteI'd also like to see some sort of PCE release of Insanity X. The character being able to move at a faster pace makes the game more enjoyable. Hard to avoid enemy shots in close quarters with the slower 'Insanity' character. Especially when the game places you square in the middle of 4 or more enemies that fire at you as soon as the room appears on screen. Lost many a life from that situation... Even would be happy with a ISO patch that could be applied to a rip of the disc to play in an emulator or burn to a disc for some real hardware love.

Could always re-release it on the Retrocade with faster-speed-character...

though, you start off invincible for a few seconds. Use it to your advantage and run into shit to kill it!

Mishran · 02/15/2012, 01:08 AM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 02/15/2012, 12:58 AMWhen you consider that you'd be getting like, 8 games for like 30$, the fact that you already bought PP probably wouldn't matter much, I don't think at least.

I agree, but the funding for that extra PP disc could go into a title that won't be included on the Retrocade disc later on. Just seems to me that the funds could be better spent. That is only my opinion though. This is your project(s), so do what you think is right.

nat · 02/15/2012, 01:09 AM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 02/15/2012, 12:47 AMHmm.

What makes you say release PP as a freebie as well?? Out of curiosity.

I think these games work better (in theory, of course, since I haven't seen any part of them save for PP) as part of the Retrocade concept.

If the ultimate goal is Retrocade, then I think charging for any of them on initial release precludes the possibility of being able to charge for them again on release of the full package. That's just me, though.

I guess the only person who can really answer this poll is you-- you need to figure out what your priorities are. If the priority is just to get games in the hands of gamers as quickly as possible, financial considerations aside, then I think my Option 3 is the best course of action.

If getting a commercial, pressed product out there that can stand in line next to Insanity is the priority, then your proposed Option 2 is the best course of action.

If the ultimate goal is no longer Retrocade, and you want these all to be standalone projects, then my Option 3 wouldn't make much sense, either.

If the concern is people not wanting to pay for Retrocade after all the games have been released as free ROMs, well, I'm not sure you'd have to worry about that. Plus, you could always offer some sort of bonus in the official Retrocade release that hadn't been released as freeware-- a 2nd disc of arranged tracks from the soundtracks of the games, for example.

Keranu · 02/15/2012, 01:27 AM

Finish and release all at once. Just pressing one small game to a CD seems like a waste of money, both on production and for the buyer. But I wouldn't object to either game being sold on an AbCard, for novelty's sake.

Some free ROM demos might be able to satisfy us until everything's ready

.

nectarsis · 02/15/2012, 01:29 AM

I vote wait...if everyone waited this long for MSR, they have shown they have patience to wait for this. Though the above mentioned demos idea is a great idea.

touko · 02/15/2012, 03:25 AM

Wahou, very cool, i have seen altlantean on your site, and i like it ..

what price do you think for hucard games ???
And a public release of squirrel 3 is a very good news .

spenoza · 02/15/2012, 03:25 AM

I'm not sure any of those titles, individually, have enough long-term appeal to more than a very few folks to stand on their own as a salable product. This is not a statement about your programming efforts, but about the gameplay of the games upon which those are based. It is in bundling them together that you really create value. That said, I'd be sad to see them on CD rather than on a card. Maybe you could bundle them all on CD, but make little 2 or 3 game bundles to release on card for those of us without CD capabilities (outside of emulation).

For example, I think Pyramid Plunder and Atlantean together on a card would definitely be worth putting down a few $$ for.

lord_cack · 02/15/2012, 05:10 AM

I would say just wait to release them all at once. Though dropping a demo ROM here and there (especially considering PP is nearly complete) would be cool but not a requirement. Also, I would be more than willing to accept Retrocade at 3 titles: Pyramid Plunder, Atlantean, and Jungle Hunt.... I just am not excited at all about Joust or Skate or Die Ramp....

So, whats the new project that has you all excited to hurry through this one?

TheClash603 · 02/15/2012, 07:35 AM

I agree, just wait.

Only way I can see wanting to do PP alone is if you need it to raise money to complete retrocade. If not, I want the complete package!

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 08:52 AM

Quote from: nat on 02/15/2012, 01:09 AMIf the concern is people not wanting to pay for Retrocade after all the games have been released as free ROMs, well, I'm not sure you'd have to worry about that. Plus, you could always offer some sort of bonus in the official Retrocade release that hadn't been released as freeware-- a 2nd disc of arranged tracks from the soundtracks of the games, for example.

Yeah, having that little something extra as arranged tracks was one idea, especially considering the Insanity X soundtrack has been pretty well received so far.

Alternate art and such in-game was another. And another little trinket/doodad to pack with the release...

. the biggest "ROM vs. Real Release" would be the enhancements to the Protocard games. It would also be the actual public release of them, since right now only the Protocard buyers get them. Either way, those 3 games will be getting tweaked significantly.

Quote from: lord_cack on 02/15/2012, 05:10 AMSo, whats the new project that has you all excited to hurry through this one?

There isn't one, really. I just think it kinda blows that Pyramid Plunder could basically be out and in peoples Turbos right now, being played. I feel as if we're kinda sitting with our thumbs up our asses on that one, lol.

Pyramid Plunder is designed for the CD hardware. There's all kinds of CD-based loading stuff that prevents it from being a card game. Atlantean however, is basically a card game. The ideas I am tossing around for it would make it very similar in enhancements to something like Galaga 88. It's coming along so far. I am just working on getting the sprites under control. The game uses every sprite possible on the PCE. Bitches.

I myself don't see why a game like Atlantean, or any of these games, for that matter, can't stand on it's own. In fact, all of these games were released as stand-alone games on consoles. Saying they don't have long-term appeal seems pretty false to me. If that were the case, people wouldn't fap every time they saw a galaga machine at a pizza shop...

That being said, the reason I thought about pressing PP (whoaaa that sounds wrong, lol) is that everyone seemed to go for Insanity, and it's less elaborate than Pyramid Plunder. Pyramid Plunder would also be cheaper, which would in turn lower Insanity's price...

and then the AbCard release of Atlantean would be somewhere between 30 and 50$, depending on just how much these cards end up costing for non-handmade ones. It's a necessary evil for us wanting real HuCards so bad. These would be the only two games released for $$. The other 3 would be free.

Considering PP would cost around 25$ probably, and Atlantean around 30-50$, would you guys really object to then paying around 40$ for a disc with PP, Atlantean, Joustaroo, Jungle Hunt Clone we haven't named yet, Skate Or Die Ramp Clone 9000, AND the 3 protocard games, all with minor tweaks to set them apart from the freebie released ROMs? It seems like really, that kind of disc should cost anywhere from 60-80$, all things considered...

and special thanks to whoever voted to scrap everything.

Nice. What's the reason for those votes?!

Nothing's set in stone though. I am just gauging everyones interest/thoughts on this stuff. My main goal is mostly to just get this shit out there for you retards to play! =3

Gogan · 02/15/2012, 09:11 AM

Quote from: Keranu on 02/15/2012, 01:27 AMFinish and release all at once. Just pressing one small game to a CD seems like a waste of money, both on production and for the buyer. But I wouldn't object to either game being sold on an AbCard, for novelty's sake.

Some free ROM demos might be able to satisfy us until everything's ready .

^ this.

Mishran · 02/15/2012, 09:22 AM

Give me Ultima on an Abby (huey?) and I'll buy anything you throw at us.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 09:23 AM

lol. If I sell Ultima, it's gotta be called Amitlu!

Mishran · 02/15/2012, 09:34 AM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 02/15/2012, 09:23 AMlol. If I sell Ultima, it's gotta be called Amitlu!

If the Stranger was called the Avatar in U2, you can name him Ratava. Or perhaps Ratatta!

Seriously though, Ultima 2 is as retroey as a retro game can get.

Ultima on Retrocade! Nah...

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 09:36 AM

LOL

it's funny you posted Ratatta. He's the stand in sprite for the skate or die ramp right now, lol.

Mishran · 02/15/2012, 09:41 AM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 02/15/2012, 09:36 AMLOL

it's funny you posted Ratatta. He's the stand in sprite for the skate or die ramp right now, lol.

I see potential for an in game easter egg!

Getting back on topic, what nat mentioned earlier about a soundtrack CD, why not included one with the PP stand alone game and call it a special edition version. Include a couple of short demos for the upcoming Retrocade games. Gotta make the game stand out to draw attention.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 09:45 AM

The games already stand out! there's chiptunes, scrolling maps, radar, multiple tilesets and sprites, AND blerpy sfx, on top of a little more polish that would probably go into the game (including an ending sequence)! I guess I myself don't see why the game can't stand on its own. I'm curious why its been said to release PP as a free game, and then release Atlantean on a card, presumably to sell. Why only sell Atlantean??

I dunno what kinda soundtrack I would provide with PP though. Not to sound like a dick, but I dont feel like making arranged versions of Egyptian music. It was enough of a pain to manage them as chiptunes. Egypt is hard. I could try it out, but it would probably be a mess, lol.

Mishran · 02/15/2012, 09:57 AM

Well, I'm not referring to the actual game itself. From what I seen from the images and vids of PP, the game looks great. I'm referring to the idea of trying to sell the game twice. Once by itself, again with Retrocade. You have to make people want to buy it twice. Add some bells and whistles to the stand alone release that the Retrocade included release doesn't have. If it is the exact same game in both releases, I can't see the point in purchasing it twice. I'm sure many others would agree. I'm not trying to cause rebellion or raise tempers, I'm just trying to get a different perspective of thing across. Again, it is your project. If you, as well as others, feel two releases of the game is a must, go for it.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 10:08 AM

It's not so much a must, as it is an option.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have the retrocade re-release have the extra little doodads in it? Though like I said, there'd be so many games on the retrocade that were free before, that you could consider PP a free game on the Retrocade release.

NecroPhile · 02/15/2012, 10:17 AM

I vote for waiting; maybe it'll prod ya along to finish everything up more quickly. Yes, I'm a greedy fucker.

Mishran · 02/15/2012, 10:18 AM

If you think PP can hold its own, why not let it. Give the game its own release and just leave the rest of the games for Retrocade. That would leave Retrocade with 7 games. I think I remember you mentioning Insanity Deathmatch as well. Wouldn't that make 8? This seems like a reasonable option as well.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 10:22 AM

Atlantean is another game that can hold its own too. I just don't want to leave people waiting with no releases, lol.

Mishran · 02/15/2012, 10:44 AM

We waited over a decade for ANY new releases, doubt people are gonna mind a few more months... Besides, we have MSR to tide us over till then. If you wanna release some of the games as ROM images, that is a plus.

The poll still says ASAP releases, so you may get your wish anyway.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 11:05 AM

I thought about doing them as Cards and selling them on a per-order basis, lol.

and in this event, the games would be released as free ROMs, and the cards would offer some extras, so you'd have the incentive to buy AbCards for your glorious collections.

and THEN, when they are all done, we release the Retrocade compilation.

so it'd be like

PP: Released as a free ISO, press it to disc if enough people would want it
Atlantean: Release the free ROM and sell on cards w/ some extras to make it beat teh freebie
Rest of games: same concept

then: they all go to the retrocade, with some bonuses and such to make the compilation truly worth it.

What do we think?

nectarsis · 02/15/2012, 11:23 AM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 02/15/2012, 08:52 AMand special thanks to whoever voted to scrap everything. Nice. What's the reason for those votes?!

Just because people like to click the (usually) included ridiculous answer LOL.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 12:08 PM

lol, or its some H8RS.

AND THEY'RE GONA H8

So far, its looking like getting some shit out ASAP is the order of the day. This is what I was hoping for.

Gogan · 02/15/2012, 12:42 PM

Good things are worth the wait.

I hope to have the "completed" version of this mockup in my hands one day

CrackTiger · 02/15/2012, 12:42 PM

I would wait and do a full CD release once everything is ready, unless you want to release PP on AetherCard in the meantime just for the sake of officially publishing a new HuCard game.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 12:47 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 02/15/2012, 12:42 PMI would wait and do a full CD release once everything is ready, unless you want to release PP on AetherCard in the meantime just for the sake of officially publishing a new HuCard game.

PP is CD-only, like I said already, lol

jlued686 · 02/15/2012, 12:47 PM

My two cents: Keranu had it right...

Quote from: Keranu on 02/15/2012, 01:27 AMFinish and release all at once. Just pressing one small game to a CD seems like a waste of money, both on production and for the buyer. But I wouldn't object to either game being sold on an AbCard, for novelty's sake.

Some free ROM demos might be able to satisfy us until everything's ready .

If I were you, and I had some finished or close-to-finished games that I was anxious to put out, I'd toss a demo or two out there. Beyond that, release the full package when it's done. And if you want to release Atlantean on or Pyramid Plunder on a Card in the meantime, that'd be great.

I have no problem waiting, and as an aside: I don't think $30 is too much. I'm more than happy to pay that for new Turbo games.

touko · 02/15/2012, 12:49 PM

Beautiful gogan

_Paul · 02/15/2012, 01:06 PM

Quote from: Gogan on 02/15/2012, 12:42 PMGood things are worth the wait.

I hope to have the "completed" version of this mockup in my hands one day

Ooh, I did a Google image on that and couldn't find it. Did you generate that all yourself? That would make a cool official cover!

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 01:07 PM

yeah he made that. It's what is planned for the cover, assuming we get this shits done.

Gogan · 02/15/2012, 01:31 PM

Yea, I did it. It's jus a mockup tho, there would be more details/changes added if Ark wants to do the whole Retrocade. As well as the inside manual too which would have that same vibe. I haven't started that yet.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 01:32 PM

=3

CrackTiger · 02/15/2012, 01:52 PM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 02/15/2012, 12:47 PM
Quote from: CrackTiger on 02/15/2012, 12:42 PMI would wait and do a full CD release once everything is ready, unless you want to release PP on AetherCard in the meantime just for the sake of officially publishing a new HuCard game.
PP is CD-only, like I said already, lol

Well then Atlantean or anything else you might want to put on TurboChip first. Otherwise, I'd wait and release the most epic and content packed CD game you can and $30 is a great price considering the quality of the physical product.

Gogan · 02/15/2012, 01:56 PM

If I end up doing the rest o the package art. It will no doubt be top notch, graphically-speaking

spenoza · 02/15/2012, 02:06 PM

Atlantean might stand alone OK, but for my gaming preferences, PP and Insanity are not games that I think stand alone as well. I can only speak for myself, here, I guess. I would only pay for those gameplay experiences as part of a collection. I just don't find Pacman and Berzerk engrossing enough to want to own them as discrete titles. (Note that this is not an indictment of your programming and artistic efforts. It's just my opinion on the underlying, original game.)

And since I still don't have, and still can't afford, a CD attachment, I would want something on a card so I can play it on my Core.

That's my very selfish, self-centered 2 cents.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 02:28 PM

Two people need to revote. lol

Senshi · 02/15/2012, 02:32 PM

I think it would be great to release what can be contained on a card. I think this would generate some serious buzz and would just be plain cool. Most things are on CD's these days. I think the novelty of the card would be so much better. Then maybe later there can be a re-release of those games on the card along with the rest.

yea maybe its not the most "efficient way to do it" but I'd rather these homebrew ideas like a new card or cartridge come to life if the creators heart is in it and not just go the CD route. Hell if people are willing to pay the crazy amounts of money that pier solar has gone for in recent history there is no reason why a new HuCard can't make a little money. If pier solar is on a CD i doubt it sells for the same amount since there probably wouldn't have been a shortage.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/15/2012, 02:37 PM

My only worry is that people wont like the games in their simplicity. The goal was to create short, tiny arcade games to bring something to the PCE that it lacks: Precrash games.

I also had a very epic realization. A "duhrrr" moment.

http://pcengine.co.uk/HTML_Games/Space_Invaders.htm

not to mention the 1995 CD release that isn't very elaborate either.

Who here thought that the Space Invaders hucard sucked, wasn't worth it, and doesn't have much appeal?

Arjak · 02/15/2012, 02:44 PM

I voted to wait for the full CD; I don't have much money to spend and have a problem with buying the exact same product twice.

_Paul · 02/15/2012, 02:44 PM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 02/15/2012, 02:37 PMWho here thought that the Space Invaders hucard sucked, wasn't worth it, and doesn't have much appeal?

Space Invaders gets boring after screen 1.

CrackTiger · 02/15/2012, 03:04 PM

I like Space Invaders, Galaga, Astrosmash, Pac Man, Lock n Chase and other games that I played back in the day. But it's not just nostalgia, the gameplay of many "pre-crash" games is timeless to me and much better than the average current gen game.