Pyramid Plunder Public Beta

[jlued686]

I didn't notice the scrolling after playing it for well over an hour. I rarely paid attention to the map either. You're all morons and pussies. ;)

Arkhan, IMO, you're doing a good job taking feedback and making adjustments based on that feedback. You don't need to agree with everyone's feedback either. I'll stick around in this thread and jerk you off.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The obvious point was that you're trying to split the player's attention away from the main action.  I've yet to play a game where I enjoyed such an experience, but to each their own.

Crap.  you probably won't like Atlantean much then.  

People saying they like it doesn't 'prove' anything, nor does it negate that others don't like it (and vice
versa).  Most people think that Deep Blue sucks, so does that 'prove' that you're wrong for enjoying it?

You said you can't prove fun. I think you can!

When the majority of people being asked are on the "do like it" side, and appear to be having fun, it leads me to believe the scrolling is probably not a huge concern and that the game is pretty good.  

There's always going to be the minority that finds some faults and will play a game, label it as "crappy design", and then dismiss it and refuse to play it.  Their loss.

Do you find fault with the scrolling too?  You haven't really said either way yet.  I am tallying up everyones thoughts.  I found one person externally who thinks it's a bit narrow too.  

You've never seen anyone go running towards the scroll side of the screen and run into an enemy?

No, I haven't, actually.  That's why the whole thing was a bit alarming to me.  Then again, everyone I watched playing it seemed to be all into the radar use and liked that aspect of the game.  It allowed them to avoid rape.

This may be a case of a different kind of crowd's reaction.  Most CCAG gamers are Apple ][/C64/Atari gamers, so maybe they're more accustomed to it.

That's why I just want to see the cheapness in action through normal play.  If I try to do it myself, I'm going to end up sort of forcing it to occur, and that isn't going to help me realize the problem.

I can dislike part of a game and still love and enjoy the overall product (see Gotzendiener).  Can't you?

Yeah, that's also why I am doing this.  I'd like to think people aren't going to throw the whole game out and bitch and trash it because of the scrolling.

It's just like what I said about Castlevania.  

I think I'll join Rover in refraining from this circle jerk.  

At least you aren't calling it a technical flaw (read: bug) when it isn't anything of the sort.  

There's not much point in a discussion where I'm labeled as a moron or pussy for not liking one single aspect of the game play.

Who said you're a moron?  I don't think I did.

My point is, since only like, 4 people have raised the concern, maybe those 4 or so people are being a bit wimpy and should give it a better shot.

It'd be like if people complain about all the bullets in blazing lazers or something and that they have to dodge too much.  You'd probably call them a sissy.

Some people are used to immediately being pretty good at games and walking through them.  Sorry to anyone like that who finds themselves dying with this game.  

Also, because we give a shit about all of you equally, we're coming up with ideas to tickle everyones weeners equally.   So allow me to reach into the circle jerk and touch everyone.

So, hows that for taking into account pretty much every goddamn concern you stupid, pussy, moronic queefs came up with?  :3  *hug*

hah, queef.  That's a fun word.

Ghosts need fixed first before we get to the other stuff, which now includes:

Less tedious maps
Scrolling tweaks
less retarded ghosts.

[CrackTiger]

When the majority of people being asked are on the "do like it" side, and appear to be having fun, it leads me to believe the scrolling is probably not a huge concern and that the game is pretty good. 

There's always going to be the minority that finds some faults and will play a game, label it as "crappy design", and then dismiss it and refuse to play it.  Their loss.

Rarely are single aspects an extreme love/hate maker for me. I'm sure that PP will still be lots of fun with the current scroll point. But it might be all the more enjoyable at another position.

[Arkhan Asylum]

When the majority of people being asked are on the "do like it" side, and appear to be having fun, it leads me to believe the scrolling is probably not a huge concern and that the game is pretty good. 

There's always going to be the minority that finds some faults and will play a game, label it as "crappy design", and then dismiss it and refuse to play it.  Their loss.

Rarely are single aspects an extreme love/hate maker for me. I'm sure that PP will still be lots of fun with the current scroll point. But it might be all the more enjoyable at another position.

that's why we're at least experimenting to see how it goes.

[OldMan]

Ghosts need fixed first before we get to the other stuff, which now includes:

Less tedious maps
Scrolling tweaks
less retarded ghosts.

Don't forget the faster warp (done)
and the pause screen (working on it.)
And ...what was that with the music?...

[Arkhan Asylum]

the rest of those were implied already.  I was noting the more prevalent stuff.

but:

Don't forget the faster warp (done)

We still need to make it look less "amateur", maybe. 

And ...what was that with the music?...

What about it?

[ParanoiaDragon]

I'd say with the warp, to make it look better, maybe go to the Bomberman games.  In atleast one of them, when he finishes a level, he kind of gradually disapears line by line IIRC?  Maybe something like that, but obviously a little faster so as not to slow down gameplay.  Or maybe an ice skater twirl like in the Dungeon Explorer's!   Or you could just make him breakdance on his head when he warps.....that actually might be kinda cool!

[Arkhan Asylum]

I am all for the ice skater twirl, because I love how stupid that effect looks.  (It was my planned idea for warp animation)

Anything flashy (painty/vanish stuff), wouldn't fit the cartoony theme of the game, imo.

[spenoza]

OK, so, I played a little of the new ISO and noticed a couple things off the bat.

I like the new scrolling margins. It just makes the game feel better somehow. I don't know if it was claustrophobia or what, but I really prefer the feel. For some reason, however, the top scrolling margin is still really narrow, like as in the original release. Kudos on being willing to play with the scroll margins to see how people feel. I really prefer them wider, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Also, I don't know if this is intended (if this is original Pac-Man or otherwise intended behavior, let me know), but if I grab a power pellet and enemies come out of the spawn point after, they are not munch-able. That I get. Only the enemies that were already out can be nabbed. But if I grab another power pellet before the current one has worn off, they remain immune. Shouldn't getting a second power pellet reset both the timer AND enemy vulnerability?

Edit: Also, I feel like maybe the "Pause" power's timer is a bit on the long side. It buys a little too much safe time, and since it even pauses enemies in the spawn point, it exacerbates the existing problems with enemy behavior (which I understand will eventually be squashed). Have you tweaked the enemy behavior at all? I noticed, at least at first, the enemies were homing in on me and staying nearby. After playing a while they started keeping their distance again and didn't get anywhere near me, but up front at least it seemed they were raring to go, and I really found it a little more exciting, because of the potential danger AND the ease of getting them after a power pellet.

[Arkhan Asylum]

OK, so, I played a little of the new ISO and noticed a couple things off the bat.

I like the new scrolling margins. It just makes the game feel better somehow. I don't know if it was claustrophobia or what, but I really prefer the feel. For some reason, however, the top scrolling margin is still really narrow, like as in the original release. Kudos on being willing to play with the scroll margins to see how people feel. I really prefer them wider, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Just because we disagree and think you're all sissies doesn't mean we won't try it anyways, lol.

If it ends up cheering up 4ish people, and doesn't turn the indifferent or "they're fine!" people to the  "FUCK THIS GAME" side, it's not like it's a big deal.   I'd still disagree and think they should be claustrophobic though.

Also, I don't know if this is intended (if this is original Pac-Man or otherwise intended behavior, let me know), but if I grab a power pellet and enemies come out of the spawn point after, they are not munch-able. That I get. Only the enemies that were already out can be nabbed. But if I grab another power pellet before the current one has worn off, they remain immune. Shouldn't getting a second power pellet reset both the timer AND enemy vulnerability?

That's what Zeta noted, and we haven't fixed yet.

Edit: Also, I feel like maybe the "Pause" power's timer is a bit on the long side. It buys a little too much safe time, and since it even pauses enemies in the spawn point, it exacerbates the existing problems with enemy behavior (which I understand will eventually be squashed). Have you tweaked the enemy behavior at all? I noticed, at least at first, the enemies were homing in on me and staying nearby. After playing a while they started keeping their distance again and didn't get anywhere near me, but up front at least it seemed they were raring to go, and I really found it a little more exciting, because of the potential danger AND the ease of getting them after a power pellet.

The pause timer is debug-tastic.  Expect all power-ups to be tweaked in the final release.  These are just arbitrary values to mess with them.

as for the ghost behavior, it's not going to be tweaked 100% til the bugs with the wall are fixed.  I anticipate them being more aggressive.

[spenoza]

I would poke around at some of the people who thought the original scrolling margins were just fine and see what their opinion of the new build is. Or, include an in game debug option to adjust the scrolling on the fly. That way people can see the different right up front and make their call. Sort of an A/B test.

[Arkhan Asylum]

yeah.

like eye glasses

Is it better with 1 *flips* or 2?


edit:
I am too impatient to wait and see what the rest think.

The scrolling regions are the same as they've always been.  We didn't change them.

The latest build should not be any different than the scrolling that was complained about.  

They will be changed, but now I am curious if they really are as bad, cheap, and bullshit as claimed.  

Experiments.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I am all for the ice skater twirl, because I love how stupid that effect looks.  (It was my planned idea for warp animation)

Anything flashy (painty/vanish stuff), wouldn't fit the cartoony theme of the game, imo.

I'm talking about this(2:50), seems like this would work in PP, but then again, maybe not if it's used constantly in a level, as opposed to just the end of a level like in Bomberman

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yeah that is kind of what I'd already had in mind.  It's a great cartoon style warp.

[TurboXray]

I only played a little bit of the game, but I kind of liked the edge scrolling. I liked the claustrophobic feel it added (for this type of game, anyway). But I felt the enemies needed to be more threatening or such. Maybe more of them or aggro area where they pick up speed if you get within that radius. I dunno, I suck at making these kind of games and AI (I tried as a kid on my old Coco 2). Anyway, yeah - the edge scrolling part was good but nothing was threatening in the end result. I didn't play that far in, so maybe it changes?

[Arkhan Asylum]

The reason the AI is retarded right now is related to the wall-bug.

Once they stop becoming one with the wall, they'll be more dastardly.

[spenoza]

I think any meaningful testing of the level of challenge the game presents, be it related to scrolling or otherwise, it contingent on getting that AI code fixed. Not much we can do for you until then.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I think any meaningful testing of the level of challenge the game presents, be it related to scrolling or otherwise, it contingent on getting that AI code fixed. Not much we can do for you until then.

which is why at least one person here (vecanti) is helping get that squashed.

[Arkhan Asylum]

New version up.

debug screen is accessed by holding select while pressing run, for those who didn't know.

This will allow you to tweak the border to your hearts content.

I play with the Radar off, and Scrolling at 0. 

[Vecanti]

I play with the Radar off, and Scrolling at 0. 

[Arkhan Asylum]

has anyone else given the new scrolling a shot.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Sorry, lack of time!  After fiddlin' with the numbers, I'm thinking that 3 ain't so bad.  I suppose it could be 4, but......not 7!

[spenoza]

Yeah, my work week started yesterday so I won't have much free time until Tuesday to look at it.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Sorry, lack of time!  After fiddlin' with the numbers, I'm thinking that 3 ain't so bad.  I suppose it could be 4, but......not 7!

3 is the default that sparked complaints.

lol

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yeah I know, & I'm getting used to it, but like I said, 4 might not be so bad.  I'm thinking Exile 2 is a bit more scary in that department, since Sadler doesn't have a "run the hell away" button!

[Vecanti]

Here's one of the advantages of 3 vs 6.

When I'm playing I like to try to clear parts in sections.  So I just grabbed this as an example.

Basically just a starting point:
/nwaudt.jpg


With 3 you can go through and clear a section and and not have it scroll away from the right edge at all.  You notice you can still see the wall on the right side as you clear the first set of rows.  So nothing can sneak up on you.  Basically you can clear out this section and not have to look at the radar as you can see anything come on to the screen.
/v79qv8.jpg


This next pic is set with scrolling on 6.  You notice when you just want to clear this first section of lines on the bottom right that the screen moves over and you can no longer see the far right, so a mummy can sneak down the right side and you can't see.  So you might get mummies sneaking up on you on the right side and have to watch the radar more not less.
/11b5a1v.jpg


I've found I like 3 because I tend to like to try clear the levels in sections.  This varies for different levels of course.  Not matter what it is 3,4,5,6,7 it's all going to be a trade off to find the right strategy for each level. 

But I tend to like the fact that the levels are large though too.  They vary from ones you can clear in sections to ones you have to go in circles or ones that just make you come up with unique strategies.  So it keeps it interesting. 

[touko]

For that i tested, the only unpleasant thing i noticed, is maze is too large in the first level .
Why not expanding mazes throughout the game, when the difficulty increases ????

[Keranu]

For that i tested, the only unpleasant thing i noticed, is maze is too large in the first level .
Why not expanding mazes throughout the game, when the difficulty increases ????

This is what I had in mind as well. Keep the first two screens small enough for the player to remain interested in playing further, and expand the maps as the ghosts get faster.

[touko]

Yes, and why ghosts would not her bonus items, like a 2x the number of ghosts on screen,for exemple..

[Keranu]

That's good thinking, I like that idea a lot! Reminds me of some other games I can't think of at the moment... some items help you, others are a curse!

[touko]

It's just an idea, i'am not the guru of PP  , but i think it could be fun .

[Arkhan Asylum]

When I redo the levels, I plan to have them grow with each level.   

[Vecanti]

Would be cool to do 1 level to represent each of the 3 Indiana Jones movies.  For the 2nd movie you could do the bridge scene.

Have two separate sections (right and left) and the only way to get across to them is a single long rope bridge you have run across and hope no enemies come onto.  Have water and crocs under it.

[abeaver]

I had some time to play your game and I have a few suggestions:

- Perhaps to avoid abuse of the run button a cool-down timer could be implemented? That or maybe have a stamina meter that depletes during use and is refilled with time or by collecting gold. I wouldn't call it absolutely game-breaking to not implement some sort of check and I'm sure you have better problems to worry about, but I figured if I had an idea I might as well share it.
- Perhaps traps like pop-out spikes, arrows, or the occasional rolling boulder would make maps more interesting and challenging. Again, these kind of features are probably an afterthought, but whatever.
- When I went through a teleporter, my character's palette changed and would not go back to normal even after I killed myself. To be honest I'm not sure if this was in fact a bug or if I had accidentally triggered something with the debug mode. Has anyone else encountered this?

Other than that, what I played was pretty good.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Fear not, the teleporter pallete change is not a bug, it's a feature!  Congrats on unlocking this feature, as it ends up adding a tremendous amount of replay value!

Seriously though, yeah, I've had the same thing happen as well.  Also, I like your ideas on spikes, boulders, etc.  And I think I like your idea about a stamina bar as well, as long as it doesn't fill up too quickly.

[Arkhan Asylum]

oops. lol.

minor detail.

[jlued686]

- Perhaps traps like pop-out spikes, arrows, or the occasional rolling boulder would make maps more interesting and challenging. Again, these kind of features are probably an afterthought, but whatever.

I love this idea. Having to avoid rolling boulders a la Indiana Jones would be awesome.

[Arkhan Asylum]

It might be a bit late in the game to go adding that kinda stuff to the game though... lol

[_Paul]

Are you still looking for a character name?

How about Alabama Bumgardner.

[Arkhan Asylum]

lol.

That makes him sound like hes into anal.

[spenoza]

Make him from New Orleans. Call him Cajun Jack. Mix up a lil N'awlins jazz in your soundtrack ; )

[Arkhan Asylum]

[nat]

lol.

That makes him sound like hes into anal.

If that's the way we're going with this, why not consider Rectal Rambo or Asp Lunder?

[Arkhan Asylum]

Cole Unpounder

[Vecanti]

Might as well name him...


Homer


...Homer Sexual

[Arkhan Asylum]

LOL.

[_Paul]

Holden McGroin

[OldMan]

Might as well name him...

Richard Headd

[_Paul]

Randy Beaver

[Arkhan Asylum]

We could make it a girl, and name her

Anne L. Pfister