MSR *WILL* be finished, come hell or high water... hell more likely.

[Keranu]

Any word on if I made it in the first 100 orders??? 

PM your full name and I can check!

[Arjak]

I earned my copy by getting second place in the Warning Track contest. Will I get the bonus disc? I really want that Making Of video and the soundtrack!

[Keranu]

I earned my copy by getting second place in the Warning Track contest. Will I get the bonus disc? I really want that Making Of video and the soundtrack!

PM me your full name so I can see where you are on the order log. If you're not in the first 100 (chances are you probably are), I'll make a note to see if we have a spare bonus we can send you.

[DragonmasterDan]

PM me your full name so I can see where you are on the order log. If you're not in the first 100 (chances are you probably are), I'll make a note to see if we have a spare bonus we can send you.

PM sent!

[OldRover]

I 'preordered' this within the last couple of weeks. strange that even the initial first batch still hasn't shipped.

There is no initial first batch... there's one batch and that's it. And it can't be made until the mastering place gets a perfect master. We're still waiting to know if the ones they just got are acceptable. As usual, we're waiting... waiting... waiting. Never again. I'm not dealing with this nonsense again. It's always something.

[Bernie]

I 'preordered' this within the last couple of weeks. strange that even the initial first batch still hasn't shipped.

There is no initial first batch... there's one batch and that's it. And it can't be made until the mastering place gets a perfect master. We're still waiting to know if the ones they just got are acceptable. As usual, we're waiting... waiting... waiting. Never again. I'm not dealing with this nonsense again. It's always something.

You just made me a very sad Bernie Wernie....    Remember the other projects you shared with me......   Must I go to my grave always wondering about what could and should have been?   

Seriously though..  I'd be having a fuck it attitude as well after going through the shit yall have been through with this game.  BUT..... no give up now.....

[OldRover]

No... what I mean is no more preorder cycles, and no more PR. Not doing this dance ever again. First, we were waiting for artwork (well worth the wait in the end though), then we were waiting for translations, and now we're waiting for the mastering house. And all the while, we've got people saying "where is it?", which is perfectly understandable, but quite exasperating when you're doing this for fun and not for commercial reasons. It really takes the fun out of the art when you have to not only explain things to people repeatedly but also deal with jackass trolls who have nothing better to do than stir up trouble, mock your work, and/or make up presumptuous bullshit.

There are some people who appreciate all the hard work that goes into making a game, and to those people, I say "thank you". The trolls, however, can go get fucked with broomsticks.

[jlued686]

I just want to pipe in and have myself counted among those who appreciate the hard work and am happy to have a new game for the Turbo.

[Duo_R]

I know it has been the equivalent of a long road trip and people asking "are we there yet" every ten minutes. After waiting on Pier Solar forever, I know eventually this will be released and I will have a copy.

[Mathius]

I just want to pipe in and have myself counted among those who appreciate the hard work and am happy to have a new game for the Turbo.

+1

[hoobs88]

No... what I mean is no more preorder cycles, and no more PR. Not doing this dance ever again. First, we were waiting for artwork (well worth the wait in the end though), then we were waiting for translations, and now we're waiting for the mastering house. And all the while, we've got people saying "where is it?", which is perfectly understandable, but quite exasperating when you're doing this for fun and not for commercial reasons. It really takes the fun out of the art when you have to not only explain things to people repeatedly but also deal with jackass trolls who have nothing better to do than stir up trouble, mock your work, and/or make up presumptuous bullshit.

There are some people who appreciate all the hard work that goes into making a game, and to those people, I say "thank you". The trolls, however, can go get fucked with broomsticks.

Hence the new avatar.

[Arjak]

I earned my copy by getting second place in the Warning Track contest. Will I get the bonus disc? I really want that Making Of video and the soundtrack!

PM me your full name so I can see where you are on the order log. If you're not in the first 100 (chances are you probably are), I'll make a note to see if we have a spare bonus we can send you.

PM sent.

No... what I mean is no more preorder cycles, and no more PR. Not doing this dance ever again. First, we were waiting for artwork (well worth the wait in the end though), then we were waiting for translations, and now we're waiting for the mastering house. And all the while, we've got people saying "where is it?", which is perfectly understandable, but quite exasperating when you're doing this for fun and not for commercial reasons. It really takes the fun out of the art when you have to not only explain things to people repeatedly but also deal with jackass trolls who have nothing better to do than stir up trouble, mock your work, and/or make up presumptuous bullshit.

There are some people who appreciate all the hard work that goes into making a game, and to those people, I say "thank you". The trolls, however, can go get fucked with broomsticks.

Hence the new avatar.

Oh, I liked the dancing Karateka guy!

[DHG Hunter]

From what I saw at the MGC, it looked like MSR was well worth the wait.  I'm glad all of you stuck with it.  =)

I'm peaking in from time to time to see what the status is.  I'll probably put a pre-order in a week from now...  New credit month and all.  ;)

Later.

[Keranu]

From what I saw at the MGC, it looked like MSR was well worth the wait.  I'm glad all of you stuck with it.  =)

I'm peaking in from time to time to see what the status is.  I'll probably put a pre-order in a week from now...  New credit month and all.  ;)

Later.

Good plan, hopefully we'll now if the masters are good to go by then.

[SignOfZeta]

I just want to pipe in and have myself counted among those who appreciate the hard work and am happy to have a new game for the Turbo.

+1

No kidding. I'm probably never going to buy it or anything, but I really do not understand people who bitch about homebrew. If you want something better or faster, make it yourself, asshole.

And comparing this project to something from NG: Dev Team is pretty ridiculous, IMO. Those guys are selling games to rich-ass Neo Geo jerks for 600 fucking dollars a pop. Its hardly a homebrew when you have something like a million dollars of guaranteed revenue from a game once all versions are released.

[OldRover]

They said "up to 2 days" and I guess they're really holding to that... we still haven't heard squat.

[shubibiman]

I hope everything turns well this time. Have you changed something to the new master you sent to the factory or is it the exact same ISO?

[rag-time4]

Interesting that the production process has been delayed due to technical aspects of PC-Engine software. I hope that measures are taken to have reliable machines on hand for producing the masters needed for the pressing of future CD games.

Glad to hear it's almost done. Hopefully future efforts will go much more smoothly!

[OldRover]

Have you changed something to the new master you sent to the factory or is it the exact same ISO?

I did have to make one minor change, which was to swap some of the audio tracks at the end of the disc. It required some number swapping in the very last subprogram.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Interesting that the production process has been delayed due to technical aspects of PC-Engine software. I hope that measures are taken to have reliable machines on hand for producing the masters needed for the pressing of future CD games.

Glad to hear it's almost done. Hopefully future efforts will go much more smoothly!

There is not much of a specific machine needed.  It's just a matter of carefully making sure your CD software doesn't do anything you didn't ask it to.

once you have one disc done the right way, you could use just about any program to burn copies of it.

[arromdee]

I was under the impression that the Neo Geo versions of the NG:Dev Team games are made mostly as a trial run for the Dreamcast version and are produced in extremely small quantities.  There's no way they could make a million dollars off of them.

[CrackTiger]

I was under the impression that the Neo Geo versions of the NG:Dev Team games are made mostly as a trial run for the Dreamcast version and are produced in extremely small quantities.  There's no way they could make a million dollars off of them.

I think he meant a billion dollars.

[OldRover]

THEY STILL CAN'T PRESS THE FUCKING DISCS! Yes, at this point, we really are dealing with monumentally stupid people. After what Arkhan told me, I came under the impression that the problem was me, but now, it's obvious that the problem is them.

[Bernie]

OMG..  You have got to be kidding....

[OldRover]

I wish I was. This is beyond fucking stupid.

"Good morning Keelan,

Replication has informed me that all 5 masters will not play! They have tried to play them in cd players and in ITunes with no success. Could you please ask your associate if they were tested before shipping them to us? We will need new masters as soon as you can...

Please see below.

All 5 masters failed QA.
Something is odd. Won't play in CD player or in iTunes.
Will need correct master
Thanks!


Sincerely,
Brian"

[_Paul]

*facepalm*

[NecroPhile]

That's it!  I'm punching a cow on the way home tonight.

[shubibiman]

OMG! They still think there's a problem with track 2. When will they understand that it's a data track?

[VestCunt]

I wish I was. This is beyond fucking stupid.

"Good morning Keelan,

Replication has informed me that all 5 masters will not play! They have tried to play them in cd players and in ITunes with no success. Could you please ask your associate if they were tested before shipping them to us? We will need new masters as soon as you can...

Please see below.

All 5 masters failed QA.
Something is odd. Won't play in CD player or in iTunes.
Will need correct master
Thanks!


Sincerely,
Brian"

Yikes!

How thorough have you been in explaining your needs to them? They don't seem to have any clue that you're trying to do something out of the ordinary.

[OldRover]

This part is in Keranu's hands, since he's the one dealing with them. I wish I had their phone number so I could call them up and tell them straight-up wtf is up.

[CrackTiger]

I can't believe that they managed to produce Insanity if this is their testing process.

[PikachuWarrior]

So whoever is making the discs from the masters thought that they were audio CDs? O_o

[VestCunt]

TGCD's should play in CD players. If track #2 were the only problem, it seems like they would have mentioned it.

[OldRover]

A modern standalone CD player will simply skip over track 2 and resume playing at track 3 once track 1 is done playing. On a stock Windows system, track 1 may play, but the rest will be ignored because Windows is stupid like that. Early emulation authors ran into that problem when attempting to emulate the CDROM system... it required raw sector reads to get it to work properly, or different drivers.

[OldRover]

So whoever is making the discs from the masters thought that they were audio CDs? O_o

This seems to be the case. I don't know how many times we've told them that this is a mixed mode CD that uses an unorthodox layout.

[PikachuWarrior]

hope everything works out in the end. My order is here to stay! Looking forward to the end product.

[SignOfZeta]

I was under the impression that the Neo Geo versions of the NG:Dev Team games are made mostly as a trial run for the Dreamcast version and are produced in extremely small quantities.  There's no way they could make a million dollars off of them.

I'm including all versions. I don't know the exact math, but right now they are taking orders for an LE of Fast Striker AES. Production will be limited to "150-200" units at 439 Euro each. That's Something like $100,000 right there, just from the LE of the AES, not including the regular edition, MVS editions, or DC editions. I would'nt be surprised at all to learn that total revenue per NG Dev title exeeds a million USD. Regardless, I think it's several steps up financially from Mysterious Song. A much bigger production that is actually generating a profit one can live off. Mysterious Song is a labor of love (most of the time). It will probably lose money, like %90 of all homebrew.

[OldRover]

Well, if worse comes to worst, then I will simply swap tracks 1 and 2. If they can't handle it like that, then there's no hope for them.

[CrackTiger]

I'm including all versions. I don't know the exact math, but right now they are taking orders for an LE of Fast Striker AES. Production will be limited to "150-200" units at 439 Euro each. That's Something like $100,000 right there, just from the LE of the AES, not including the regular edition, MVS editions, or DC editions. I would'nt be surprised at all to learn that total revenue per NG Dev title exeeds a million USD. Regardless, I think it's several steps up financially from Mysterious Song. A much bigger production that is actually generating a profit one can live off. Mysterious Song is a labor of love (most of the time). It will
probably lose money, like %90 of all homebrew.

Well, if I was getting paid for the time I've spent on work towards MSR what I get paid per hour at my day job, then I guess I've invested tens if thousands of dollars of labor.

[roflmao]

Sorry to hear this has become such a nightmare. 

I honestly don't know how there can be so many shitty replicators out there.  I've used at least 4 different replicators over the past 5-6 years (for DVD projects) and nearly all of them have truly impressed me with their levels of incompetence.  I made a similar post on Frozen Utopia's fb page so I won't repeat myself anymore.

The DVDs I produce now are small runs to niche groups so I just ended up buying my own replicator. I'd offer it up for you guys to use, but the end result would be on CD-R media, which I know is a no-no.

[OldRover]

That's not replication, that's duplication... an entirely different procedure. A replicator is a machine that literally creates CD copies from raw materials and a stamper. A duplicator is essentially a stack of CD writers, which is what it sounds like you have. Duplicators are also relatively cheap in comparison.

[SignOfZeta]

The problem is that PCE games are non-standard. I'm sure if you gave them an ISO for an audio CD or video DVD or standard data CDROM these idiots would have no problem with it.

[roflmao]

That's not replication, that's duplication... an entirely different procedure. A replicator is a machine that literally creates CD copies from raw materials and a stamper. A duplicator is essentially a stack of CD writers, which is what it sounds like you have. Duplicators are also relatively cheap in comparison.

Yeah, what I've got is a duplicator.  When working with replicators in the past, some of them would take a straight ISO, sometimes we had to send them all sorts of crazy shit.   Sorry for the confusion in terminology.

The problem is that PCE games are non-standard. I'm sure if you gave them an ISO for an audio CD or video DVD or standard data CDROM these idiots would have no problem with it.

You would be surprised that something so seemingly simple can be botched in so many ways....

[OldRover]

Well, I really think that if I send them a disc with track 1 data and the rest audio, it'd work just fine. It'll just break PCE convention is all, plus that track 1 audio track will effectively go to waste... I'll still include it on the disc, but it won't actually be track 1 anymore.

[PCEngineHell]

I wish I was. This is beyond fucking stupid.

"Good morning Keelan,

Replication has informed me that all 5 masters will not play! They have tried to play them in cd players and in ITunes with no success. Could you please ask your associate if they were tested before shipping them to us? We will need new masters as soon as you can...

Please see below.

All 5 masters failed QA.
Something is odd. Won't play in CD player or in iTunes.
Will need correct master
Thanks!


Sincerely,
Brian"

Sounds like they have run into a brick wall. Then again, they don't have actual game system hardware there to test on either, so I am sure that is frustrating for them, because they cant really test it the way they need to. You know Smartworks said they cant do this kind of shit anymore, what, 5 years ago. I wonder if the reasons were similar, and they just wanted to avoid pressing a product they felt they cant really test before pressing. As far as NG Dev Team goes, its been implied that their team is fairly small, two brothers and a few others. Last I heard they were trying to hire a pixel artist or two, so its possible they are trying to add on to their team, or someone left. At any rate, its not like everything they sell is high priced. The Neo Cd and DC games have a nice price tag on them, making the stuff widely available.

The Neo carts are high priced, but also not cheap to make either, so I am not surprised for the asking price. Its in line with a niche premium quality product. That and, well, any arcade vendor running a cab is used to paying a lot anyway on the MVS side. They make the money back if their cab is played a lot and the game is solid so its not a big deal for them. That side of gaming (arcade), and the collectors involved, are a totally different breed at times, and are a lot more used to paying $100 on up per game they buy, jamma or otherwise. Honestly, you guys could always try to expand the market on this stuff to bring in extra revenue. Xbox live arcade or whatever, just to help make sure the cost of making the thing gets covered in the long run. If you have total rights to Mysterious Song now, explore all your options.

[OldRover]

The only brick wall they ran into was the one they keep banging their own thick skulls into. They are under the assumption that this is a straight-up audio CD since track 1 is audio. They completely ignore us when we tell them that track 2 is data and is NOT to be considered audio.

I've considered converting MSR to the XBLA, but without a machine to test with, and without the publishing fee, it can't happen for now. I've got some cash coming my way shortly that I might use to do such an investment, but it's a real gamble... XBLA is full of shovelware and games rarely do well enough to make it worthwhile... even the best-selling indie game there has only sold around 60k downloads. At a buck a pop, that's not bad, but it's the exception, not the rule. Android is another option; no licensing fees or other such nonsense so there's less overhead involved... just a matter of supporting the different screens available.

The one nice thing about supporting an alternate platform though is that the cutscenes could be made in their entirety; most people don't actually know that there were frames dropped from the PCE version of MSR due to memory constraints. On another platform, we could have them play unedited.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Things must have changed since 2009 at Nationwide Disc.

Or, the specifications of the project are not being properly communicated to them.  You have to remember, some QA testers are dense.

When a dense QA tester moves things along and repeats their findings to a sales/managerial type person, it's a recipe for disaster.

They should have a phone contact number.  I spoke to my representative dude on the phone directly and explained what they were dealing with.  If you wait around for e-mails, it just takes longer.


Above all else, I'd refrain from flipping out on them until you've 100% verified things are now their fault.  This time around here, your disc has not even made it to the real machines.  It is bombing out in QA. 

You're all missing a key fact here.  I will repeat it again:

Its bombing out in QA

That means Jeff the Intern stuck it in his iMac and iTunes went "THIS DOESN'T JUST WORK", and he complained, and went and told all his bros how he totes reported a bogus disc.  Or however the hell they word it.

Once you explain to them that "fucking duh it won't play in iTunes, its not an audio disc", and tell them it's a video game, I bet you can tell them to press onward to the actual machines here, instead of letting the discs float around in QA land.

[PCEngineHell]

The only brick wall they ran into was the one they keep banging their own thick skulls into. They are under the assumption that this is a straight-up audio CD since track 1 is audio. They completely ignore us when we tell them that track 2 is data and is NOT to be considered audio.

I've considered converting MSR to the XBLA, but without a machine to test with, and without the publishing fee, it can't happen for now. I've got some cash coming my way shortly that I might use to do such an investment, but it's a real gamble... XBLA is full of shovelware and games rarely do well enough to make it worthwhile... even the best-selling indie game there has only sold around 60k downloads. At a buck a pop, that's not bad, but it's the exception, not the rule. Android is another option; no licensing fees or other such nonsense so there's less overhead involved... just a matter of supporting the different screens available.

The one nice thing about supporting an alternate platform though is that the cutscenes could be made in their entirety; most people don't actually know that there were frames dropped from the PCE version of MSR due to memory constraints. On another platform, we could have them play unedited.

All else fails, if you decide to pursue other avenues/formats, spread the word to the other forums for free advertising. You could also see if Aaron is willing to throw together a small ad for you guys and host it on his youtube channel for more exposure, if he has the time to spare anyway. Or Joe even.

[Arkhan Asylum]

All else fails, if you decide to pursue other avenues/formats, spread the word to the other forums for free advertising. You could also see if Aaron is willing to throw together a small ad for you guys and host it on his youtube channel for more exposure, if he has the time to spare anyway. Or Joe even.

You'd think that would help, but it doesn't, for XBox Live at least.  I sure hope it'd work better on other platforms.

The Xbox platform is practically toast.  Games that are FAR better than Insanity X barely clear 500 downloads if they even break past 100.  After subscription fees, and M$'s cut, the team involved makes less than you'd make working a week at McDonalds.

About the only way to get known on XBox, is to blow Kotaku.   They have their own section of "recommended games" within the Indie section.   

People often sort by most downloads or highest rated.   That, or they use the Kotaku button.  So other great games just get lost in the shuffle, never to be played.  Even with advertising.  It really sucks.  I went through and bought/5 starred a bunch of games that I felt we're deserving of some recognition on there.


Anyway, I advise against wasting your time on Xbox Live indie games unless you've already blown the money to subscribe and think you can finish before it runs out.  It's not worth the fees.

You have to subscribe to even be allowed to test on your xbox.  That's horse shit.

[PikachuWarrior]

You could also allow any of us to upload a promo/trailer of the game to our Youtube accounts. At least there would be more exposure in that regard. Every avenue helps!