What do you guys think of IBM?

[BigusSchmuck]

The company that I work for is going through a software conversion and I come to find out today its hosted on IBM servers. Now the good news seeing how I work for a COOP it will combine a lot of the things we are doing into one software package which makes my life much easier in that sense and its hosted off site. Bad news is, the interface is all command line driven, so we are going backwards to the days before DOS whereas the bits and pieces of software we currently use are Windows based. Even sadder yet, this wasn't IT's decision to do this, we had no input it was all accounting and grain, two of the most computer illiterate groups at work ever. So what do you guys think about IBM Mainframe software? So far I think its a waste of time and will cause more headaches than its worth considering that a lot of organizations are going off this stuff.

[SignOfZeta]

I don't think you actually mean an actual IBM "mainframe". That shit is extinct, isn't it? Even if they were in use they wouldn't be even close to fast enough to serve shit at today's speeds.

[SuperDeadite]

command line inputs are awesome.  So much quicker to get stuff done exactly as you want it.  It's not IBM's fault most people are lazy and ignorant of how to truly use a computer these days.  GUIs have ruined people.

[NightWolve]

Even sadder yet, this wasn't IT's decision to do this, we had no input it was all accounting and grain, two of the most computer illiterate groups at work ever.

Dunno about IBM Mainframe software (Just quick reaction, but who and how many around here even would be familiar with it? The odds of finding someone to chat about that seem very low if you ask me, but you've been here longer, so I dunno.), but I had a similar experience at my last job where the IT dept. is the last to be consulted about relevant matters. Product managers setting deadlines for product developers in the IT dept. without any prior input from them. It always drove me nuts... They would set a deadline without getting any input from those that would actually be doing the development of the product and yet were the least computer literate, then when the deadline is missed, they would wonder how come...

[kazekirifx]

Are you sure the command line interface is DOS, not some type of UNIX? I don't think DOS is used for servers - other than a hacked version I found from just googling now.

Really what you're describing doesn't sound like such a bad decision at all. My company uses Windows servers, and while the interface is very easy to use for those who are not comfortable with a command line environment, UNIX variants are typically much more stable, and also very easy to use once you are familiar with the commands.

[Tatsujin]

GUIs have ruined people.

so did calculators and stuff..lol!

[BigusSchmuck]

I don't think you actually mean an actual IBM "mainframe". That shit is extinct, isn't it? Even if they were in use they wouldn't be even close to fast enough to serve shit at today's speeds.

Thats pretty much what it is on steroids. http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/i/index.html

Are you sure the command line interface is DOS, not some type of UNIX? I don't think DOS is used for servers - other than a hacked version I found from just googling now.

Really what you're describing doesn't sound like such a bad decision at all. My company uses Windows servers, and while the interface is very easy to use for those who are not comfortable with a command line environment, UNIX variants are typically much more stable, and also very easy to use once you are familiar with the commands.

It predates DOS hence the reason why I was making fun of it. Its not so much the software itself that bothers me, but rather the timing. Harvest is a big time thing over here and by far the busiest time of the year. If these buerocrats had any kind of common sense, they would have had us doing this in the fall time where things aren't so busy and that way we can have some time to actually test it out and train people. As it stands right now we go live with this thing on July 1st and only had a month to train people. I dunno if you guys have done any big time software conversions, but anything of this magnitude should at least be tested for the first month, train people the next month and then go live the third month. Again, we are talking 250+ employees (not counting temp workers which easily makes it over 300) 90% of them are completely computer illiterate and only 3 of us to try to train these guys. It also should be noted that the systems that we are converting are from the grain departments, accounting, petroleum, agronomy and payroll. Ugh what a mouthful.

[SignOfZeta]

command line inputs are awesome.  So much quicker to get stuff done exactly as you want it.  It's not IBM's fault most people are lazy and ignorant of how to truly use a computer these days.  GUIs have ruined people.

Please, this is such bullshit. I mean, you are joking, right? You must be joking. If you had to admin a company with 100 million directories you'd just like...memorize where all that shit is then, wow. You must be a goddamn genius. I bet your entire home network is all monochome dumb terminals 'cause its legit. File names more than 8 characters long are for retards, right?

Seriously, no matter what it is, if nobody knows how to use it then it isn't the right decision. Anyone who can't understand that concept needs to take the sliderule out of their ass. It's obviously in so deep it's causing brain damage.

[FiftyQuid]

command line inputs are awesome.  So much quicker to get stuff done exactly as you want it.  It's not IBM's fault most people are lazy and ignorant of how to truly use a computer these days.  GUIs have ruined people.

I 100% agree.  Give me a CLI like TL1 anyday.

[Opethian]

If you are afraid of CLI then you dont script and a monkey could do your job. Mainframe isnt dead. IBM is trying hard to stay relevent in the "cloud" computing space so its no wonder they pitched a hosting service at your people and sounds like they won. I think IBM is overpriced for what you get. There are many other companies doing the same thing. Unless they are moving you software to a company they acquired you probably paid too much.

[SignOfZeta]

Command line interfaces in 2012 are basically a Tic Tac measuring contest where everyone loses. Fuck that shit. I have work to do.

[NightWolve]

In the CLI v. GUI issue, I do find myself needing CLI at times, but definitely prefer a GUI. CLI is necessary at times and in certain work environments a must; it depends on the situation, but calling a CLI 'awesome' is a bit of a stretch for me. I don't disagree with the rest of what SuperDeadite said, though. Computer users that started off with a CLI and then moved on to GUI tend to be more literate/competent. But eh, that's the point of a GUI, to make it as easy as possible for anyone in general to use a computer (not having to be a super techhead to use one), even the dumbest among us. Bringing up calculators is kind of a good comparison, we're better off overall with 'em, even though less of us can do basic math in our heads having been spoiled by 'em.

[soop]

If you really have just bought an entire bunch of shit running AS400, then I'm sorry for you.  I understand a lot of the financial sector still use it, but it's hyper-outdated.

As for the GUI vs command line debate, a GUI can still do command line, and thus is obviously superior.  You get a simplified intuitive interface for everyday tasks, and you get a command line interface for all the other stuff.

I usually have a dozen putty sessions up to all kinds of boxes, Solaris, linux, Cisco IOS or whatever, but I can't draw a pretty picture on any of 'em.

[SuperDeadite]

GUI is fine for most things.  I run Windows XP on my lappy.  But there are still some stuff that is just easier to run via the command prompt.  The ability to just add a simple "/X" to the end of a line is just cleaner, faster, and easier then trying to do that in any GUI I've ever used.

Today especially GUIs have gone insane.  Shit like Windows 8, the Metro crap they want to put on my 360, big flashy buttons are a step backwards.  It's like the damn GameCube controller with the big giant red button.  Just push here and forget about having any real control over your computer.

[soop]

GUI is fine for most things.  I run Windows XP on my lappy.  But there are still some stuff that is just easier to run via the command prompt.  The ability to just add a simple "/X" to the end of a line is just cleaner, faster, and easier then trying to do that in any GUI I've ever used.

Today especially GUIs have gone insane.  Shit like Windows 8, the Metro crap they want to put on my 360, big flashy buttons are a step backwards.  It's like the damn GameCube controller with the big giant red button.  Just push here and forget about having any real control over your computer.

I'd never use Metro on a PC unless it was purely a media center - and even my PC isn't *just* a media center.  But I've been using it on my phone for nearly a year now, and it's great.  I've been using touchscreen Windows phones since 2004, and they kind of went backwards for a while, which ended up in me installing all kinds of software on non-standard architecture and hacking the registry and overclocking stuff...  I'm much happier with Metro.

And as for stuff like text manipulation, I agree; it's usually much more flexible to use awk sed or even vi in a unix shell than it is to do something in Windows.

[Tatsujin]

PUSH THE BUTTON, MAX!

[majors]

this wasn't IT's decision to do this, we had no input it was all accounting and grain, two of the most computer illiterate groups at work ever.

Welcome to the next level.

I got nothing on mainframes, we run all Window servers and couple of Linux boxes (for DNS only). My job is helpdesk, I do not touch servers (thats other ppls jobs). End users are a mix of Windows and OSX...I apply most of my hate on the Mac users.

[DragonmasterDan]

Dunno about IBM Mainframe software (Just quick reaction, but who and how many around here even would be familiar with it? The odds of finding someone to chat about that seem very low if you ask me, but you've been here longer, so I dunno.), but I had a similar experience at my last job where the IT dept. is the last to be consulted about relevant matters. Product managers setting deadlines for product developers in the IT dept. without any prior input from them. It always drove me nuts... They would set a deadline without getting any input from those that would actually be doing the development of the product and yet were the least computer literate, then when the deadline is missed, they would wonder how come...

I deal with IBM mainframe every day. Fortunately it's mostly things like simple password resets, VPS printer stops and restarts, very simple stuff. But because it works it's still in use.

[Arkhan Asylum]

GUI is fine for most things.  I run Windows XP on my lappy.  But there are still some stuff that is just easier to run via the command prompt.  The ability to just add a simple "/X" to the end of a line is just cleaner, faster, and easier then trying to do that in any GUI I've ever used.

Today especially GUIs have gone insane.  Shit like Windows 8, the Metro crap they want to put on my 360, big flashy buttons are a step backwards.  It's like the damn GameCube controller with the big giant red button.  Just push here and forget about having any real control over your computer.

For starts, Metro is also designed for the touchy poke interface Mobile WORLD!     Good luck CLIing on a tablet or a phone.  I know I don't want to type in a bunch of jive from the command line on a retarded touch keyboard with no tactile feedback.

anyway, GUIs are simply a front end for CLIs.  So the whole argument is kind of stupid.  You can't quickly highlight an entire list and delete stuff with a CLI, but you also can't type del *.jpg with a GUI.  BFD.   The end result is the same.  You deleted a buncha JPGs.

GUIs were created so that MORE people could get into computers.   They're meant to be intuitive so you can just turn the computer on and get shit done, even if you're new to it.  They were pioneered by a bunch of dorks that are legit as fuck.  Punch Card Legit.   If they had the same mindset as you, we'd all be fingering our assholes while feeding punch cards into machines because it's how you truly used a computer at the time.  

They pioneered the GUI concept so the mass majority could actually enjoy their computers, and computers as a whole could evolve into something cooler.  

command line inputs are awesome.  So much quicker to get stuff done exactly as you want it.  It's not IBM's fault most people are lazy and ignorant of how to truly use a computer these days.  GUIs have ruined people.

It's not always quicker.  Depends what you're doing.

and, yeah, it is partially IBMs fault.  Ever hear of OS/2 ?   Duh?

I do CLI shit everyday in Linux/Windows both at home and at work.  So, I am not ignorant about how these things work.  I use the crap when I have to.

I'm glad there are GUIs for a lot of system-related tasks.    I don't want to sit and fingerbang in VI or Emacs and dickoff with a bunch of commands just to do things and then accidentally make a mistake and fuck up something I was working on.  It can and will happen to everyone.  

GUIs didn't ruin anyone.   The people you speak of likely wouldn't be bothering with computers without a GUI.   They'd be too overwhelmed.

unless you're browsing the internet on Lynx, you should probably get off the CLI high horse.  I doubt you are doing anything at home in the CLI that would impress anyone except 13 year old script kiddies on IRC.


EDIT:  Oh yeah, the real topic:

The stuff you're going to deal with is kind of archaic/clunky, but, it works.

And heck, since it's so old, I bet any problem you have will be googleable!

You'll be fine.  It'll get the job done.

[SuperDeadite]

high-horse? lol.  As stated i use XP for my actual daily computer.  People these days are incredibly lazy and want their computer to do everything for them.  Just another example of how are species is getting dumber every day.  We humans are fucked cause all we want to do is sit on our ass and fap.  A person's refusal to actually read 20 pages of DOS for Dummies is just an extension of that.  GUI have their uses, but it's gone overboard.  When I reinstall XP and go to control panel I have to click that stupid line before it even appears.  What I love about the command line is that it actually does exactly what i want unless I fuck it up, the way it should be.

[Arkhan Asylum]

high-horse? lol.  As stated i use XP for my actual daily computer.  People these days are incredibly lazy and want their computer to do everything for them. 

Uh, What do you think computers were designed for?  So people wouldn't have to sit and calculate stuff manually.   duhrrr.

and yes, high horse.   That's what you sound like you're riding around on when you say shit like "hooohooo, people are ignorant about how to truly use compootas!".

Just another example of how OUR (you spelled it wrong, loloolool) species is getting dumber every day.  We humans are fucked cause all we want to do is sit on our ass and fap.  A person's refusal to actually read 20 pages of DOS for Dummies is just an extension of that.  GUI have their uses, but it's gone overboard. 

You'd be surprised what people manage to pull off with GUIs.  Saying that the world is getting dumber every day because of GUIs is incredibly short sighted. 

GUIs do exactly what you want, and to say that they have gone overboard is a stretch.   How have they gone overboard, exactly?


Ever install linux from the command line?  It's a pain in the dick. I've gone as far as doing it with shit like Lunar Linux where you have to build everything as you go.   I'd never do that again.  Give me a Zenwalk disc, a few clicks, and a Linux desktop, ready to get shit done.   

When I reinstall XP and go to control panel I have to click that stupid line before it even appears. 

You have to do what, click the control panel icon?  So what? 

hit the windows key, type in control panel, and hit enter.  Voila.  There's your control panel.  It's just like the CLI!   You type in crap, and things happen!

Windows 7 has done a good job of molding the two things together well.  Windows XP does it clunkily, and Vista does it shittily.

What I love about the command line is that it actually does exactly what i want unless I fuck it up, the way it should be.

Does your mouse cursor have a temper?  Does it sometimes go the other way, or right click instead of left click or something?

Unless you answered yes, the GUI also does exactly what you want.  It isn't like the CLI can do EVERYTHING.  It's limited by commands and their options just like a GUI is limited by your clicking and dragging.

you make it sound like the CLI is as great as TRON or something:

"OPEN FILE.  I HAVE ACCESS CODE.  OK THANK YOU.  NOW, OPEN MY GAME PLEASE.  THANK YOU COMPUTER!"

[SignOfZeta]

I just realized how hard I've been BASHin SUDOintellectual types.

I don't regret it. Or the shitty jokes.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I just realized how hard I've been BASHin SUDOintellectual types.

I don't regret it. Or the shitty jokes.

They're so KORNy.

Are you sure you don't reGREP it?

that one was AWKward.

[RegalSin]

1. IBM main business is building super computers for the United States goverment.

2. IBM is only a big comeback because of Intel, turning OSX into Windows.

3. Command Line OSes are better. The last good GUI OS, was Amiga. Everything else was Unix, or Windows variant.

4. I am not lying when I say this, if command line was still around and GUI was only videogames, I swear the closest thing to a GUI I would touch would be a game system.

5. IBM have security issues, accessing tasks, and files should not be a problem for ( whatever your job position is ). Most people in IT, are only smart as the IT in "Brazil" the film. I mean seriously, half of these guys do not even know how to request access to a computer. I imagine being there with my book of passwords and commands.

What is the difficulty of not using GUI? Multitasking?  Honestly I do think it is a problem, if that is what you are getting at.

6. OS/2 was not a bad thing. People prefering Windows to play games, over OS/2 was a bad thing. OS/2 position for the last ten years of it's invention ( since StarTreck the next generations, Data ) is the usage in banking machines ( easy money ). I wonder what operating systems are ATM machines using nowadays.

7. IBM has it's place with it's goverment super computers. That is what IBM is now and forever. So unless your one of those guys who hangs out in a room full guys and one gal, that is not my problem

[roflmao]

What is the difficulty of not using GUI? Multitasking?  Honestly I do think it is a problem, if that is what you are getting at.

Anyone remember Desqview? 

[kazekirifx]

I bet your entire home network is all monochome dumb terminals 'cause its legit.

That would be awesome...

[SignOfZeta]

I want to see the command line version of a redeye removal tool, iPod syncing/sorting, non-linear video editing...

Did development of the Internet peak with Lynx? Are games more lavish than Zork just eye candy for idiots? Seriously, you guys are pathetic. More than that, you are completely unrealistic. The vast majority of stuff that is done on computers these days is basically impossible with a command line interface.

I just watched Brazil the other night, btw. I recently got the five disc Criterion LD, finally. It's magical.

Btw, here is a video I made of me at the track on Sunday. Can you do this with a command like interface? I mean, in a single lifetime?

[SuperDeadite]

iPod syncing?  LOL who uses that trash?

[BigusSchmuck]

1. IBM main business is building super computers for the United States goverment.

2. IBM is only a big comeback because of Intel, turning OSX into Windows.

3. Command Line OSes are better. The last good GUI OS, was Amiga. Everything else was Unix, or Windows variant.

4. I am not lying when I say this, if command line was still around and GUI was only videogames, I swear the closest thing to a GUI I would touch would be a game system.

5. IBM have security issues, accessing tasks, and files should not be a problem for ( whatever your job position is ). Most people in IT, are only smart as the IT in "Brazil" the film. I mean seriously, half of these guys do not even know how to request access to a computer. I imagine being there with my book of passwords and commands.

What is the difficulty of not using GUI? Multitasking?  Honestly I do think it is a problem, if that is what you are getting at.

6. OS/2 was not a bad thing. People prefering Windows to play games, over OS/2 was a bad thing. OS/2 position for the last ten years of it's invention ( since StarTreck the next generations, Data ) is the usage in banking machines ( easy money ). I wonder what operating systems are ATM machines using nowadays.

7. IBM has it's place with it's goverment super computers. That is what IBM is now and forever. So unless your one of those guys who hangs out in a room full guys and one gal, that is not my problem

I personally don't have an issue with command line based OS. However, the end users over where I work at are mostly hicks, farmers, laborers, etc up until a few years ago didn't even know how to e-mail let alone remember their password (can't wait until that happens, three strikes and you can't get into the system and its time to call the boys at IBM to unlock them joy) to this "advanced" system we are going to. Yet, these are the type of people making these declensions on what direction IT should go. Hell, I even got a call today that someone said their printer was busted and all it was that it needed more paper. This is what I"m up against folks and we go live with this system on Monday.

[SignOfZeta]

iPod syncing?  LOL who uses that trash?

Hundreds of millions of people on horses shorter than yours.

[Sparky]

iPod syncing?  LOL who uses that trash?

Hundreds of millions of people on horses shorter than yours.

Hahahaha.. For the win

[Arkhan Asylum]

iPod syncing?  LOL who uses that trash?

Hundreds of millions of people on horses shorter than yours.

Hahahaha.. For the win

I generally only use CLIs for programming non Microsoft .NETish stuff, because IDEs are kind of annoying.   PCE is done w/ notepad++ and CMD.exe. 

but, for most other things, it's a pain.

Setting up wifi in linux?  Yeah, give me the goony GUI some dork wrote to do it for me.  I never remember the fuckin commands.   The little button never forgets the command though!

Even if I were a system admin, I'd likely use GUIs for a lot of shit.   I'd probably write a bunch of scripts to do routine tasks for me.  but, if there are GUI options, I am likely to fire that shit up first. 


Even on Linux, I prefer updating/picking addons via the GUIs.   Sitting and typing fuckin apt/yum install commands all day is for retards.  Check off all the boxes you like and press the go go go button.

[SignOfZeta]

Seriously, I have 100GB of music. Tens of thousands of files. Sure, I'm too stupid to CD and MV all that shit, but even if I could...I'd be even stupider to actually do it that way because it would take FUCKING FOREVER and I'd gain nothing for the effort.

"What? You painted your house? Whatever, sheep, I did mine the old fashioned way, I glued macaroni over every inch of it. Yeah, I'll have to do it again after it rains a few times, but at least I'm not lazy."

[Tatsujin]

"What? You painted your house? Whatever, sheep, I did mine the old fashioned way, I glued macaroni over every inch of it. Yeah, I'll have to do it again after it rains a few times, but at least I'm not lazy."

HAHAHA!!

[kazekirifx]

I want to see the command line version of a redeye removal tool, iPod syncing/sorting, non-linear video editing...

Did development of the Internet peak with Lynx? Are games more lavish than Zork just eye candy for idiots? Seriously, you guys are pathetic. More than that, you are completely unrealistic. The vast majority of stuff that is done on computers these days is basically impossible with a command line interface.

I just watched Brazil the other night, btw. I recently got the five disc Criterion LD, finally. It's magical.

I love how you are dissing CLI's and talking about laserdiscs in the same post. 

[NightWolve]

What's a debate without knowing what RegalSin thinks, ya know? ;)

Command Line OSes are better.

The last good GUI OS, was Amiga. Everything else was Unix, or Windows variant.

I am not lying when I say this, if command line was still around and GUI was only videogames, I swear the closest thing to a GUI I would touch would be a game system.

GUI > CLI but a CLI is still necessary/useful as Arkhan pointed out well enough and better than I felt like doing. The GUI provides you with a CLI when you occasionally need it, so what's the discussion ? You seriously would prefer that the OS, in principle/by default, be controlled/interacted with mainly via a textual interface ?? Or what, you like taking the counter-intuitive position on a no-brainer and baiting folks ? ;) I don't regret my DOS-only days, but I'd never wanna go back to 'em...

I'm gonna have to approve of SignOfZeta's methods 100% here. This is like more of the excessive "retro-ness" vibe that I get around here (PCEFX). Sometimes I'm impressed by it, but this is not one of those times... Heh.

[RegalSin]

I am trying to say that less is more. If windows was as clean, as Amiga and was in it's 2000 stage, I am sure that people would be like "oh windows is so cool" but they are not thinking about running a system, with no slowdowns, and lighting fast speed. They are thinking about downloading their film, while editing, while breaking the rules of workstation, and even traffficing the entire flow of the download, while ruinning their anti-virus software, and replying to this thread.

Take linux, packages. They are small, and runs lighting fast. To make it run faster, it could just be Unix. start program ( package ) and bamn bman bamn bamn, exit program. Then to make things odder, you lose the mouse feel.

A GUI OS, just make a person with ADD into a computer expert. Good for artists but not good for IT. However thank gosh for stickies, wonderfull stickies. List all your commands, around your monitor.

[soop]

I am trying to say that less is more. If windows was as clean, as Amiga and was in it's 2000 stage, I am sure that people would be like "oh windows is so cool" but they are not thinking about running a system, with no slowdowns, and lighting fast speed. They are thinking about downloading their film, while editing, while breaking the rules of workstation, and even traffficing the entire flow of the download, while ruinning their anti-virus software, and replying to this thread.

Take linux, packages. They are small, and runs lighting fast. To make it run faster, it could just be Unix. start program ( package ) and bamn bman bamn bamn, exit program. Then to make things odder, you lose the mouse feel.

A GUI OS, just make a person with ADD into a computer expert. Good for artists but not good for IT. However thank gosh for stickies, wonderfull stickies. List all your commands, around your monitor.

I know I shouldn't be surprised, but that makes no sense.

There is so much shit that GUI is much better than a CLI for, and you can still have a CLI interface.

Unless the argument is that computers should be exclusive to "computer experts" (which I'm beginning to think it might be), I don't see why we're still arguing.

I'm on a Cisco router right now changing an IP address, and sure, I don't need a GUI for it because I do that crap day-in day-out.  But if it's something I do once in a blue moon, like run a trace, or a packet capture, hellz yeah gimme a GUI, I can't remember that shit, but I can fill in a box, check some options and click "go".  It's not like I'm an idiot that can't be bothered to learn, it's just my head is full of other stuff that I need more.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I programmed Cisco routers for 2 years in highschool.   It was fun. 

It was also fucking boring.  We stopped working so we could play Unreal Tournament and Diablo 2.

Some of that router stuff turns out to be easier with a CLI when you telnet into the router and start pounding on it.

but most of it, just use some kinda fuckin GUI.  It's going to execute the same crap you could type but probably don't remember.

what'd be really funny is if the network is down and you have to program it to fix it and don't remember the commands.

CAN'T GOOGLE IT.  lol.

[SuperDeadite]

iPod syncing?  LOL who uses that trash?

Hundreds of millions of people on horses shorter than yours.

And just as many are republicans, religious zealots, and child molesters.  Majority is nothing but a bunch of silly numbers.

[spenoza]

GUI > CLI but a CLI is still necessary/useful as Arkhan pointed out well enough and better than I felt like doing. The GUI provides you with a CLI when you occasionally need it, so what's the discussion ? You seriously would prefer that the OS, in principle/by default, be controlled/interacted with mainly via a textual interface ?? Or what, you like taking the counter-intuitive position on a no-brainer and baiting folks ? ;) I don't regret my DOS-only days, but I'd never wanna go back to 'em...

I'm gonna whole-heartedly disagree here on your generic GUI > CLI. GUI is better for casual computer users, and for casual computer interactions, but keyboard-driven input will always be faster for expert users, be it well-designed shortcuts or a CLI. That's the thing, though, CLI is not for novices. It requires memorization and familiarity, but once you have it you are inherently faster than any GUI user at a wide variety of tasks.

[Arkhan Asylum]

iPod syncing?  LOL who uses that trash?

Hundreds of millions of people on horses shorter than yours.

And just as many are republicans, religious zealots, and child molesters.  Majority is nothing but a bunch of silly numbers.

wat.

[soop]

GUI > CLI but a CLI is still necessary/useful as Arkhan pointed out well enough and better than I felt like doing. The GUI provides you with a CLI when you occasionally need it, so what's the discussion ? You seriously would prefer that the OS, in principle/by default, be controlled/interacted with mainly via a textual interface ?? Or what, you like taking the counter-intuitive position on a no-brainer and baiting folks ? ;) I don't regret my DOS-only days, but I'd never wanna go back to 'em...

I'm gonna whole-heartedly disagree here on your generic GUI > CLI. GUI is better for casual computer users, and for casual computer interactions, but keyboard-driven input will always be faster for expert users, be it well-designed shortcuts or a CLI. That's the thing, though, CLI is not for novices. It requires memorization and familiarity, but once you have it you are inherently faster than any GUI user at a wide variety of tasks.

It's a widely held adage that a *nix system admin will spend 2 hours making a script that simplifies a 5 minute task even if he only uses it once.  I don't doubt that it can be faster, but if it requires memorisation and familiarity, is it worth it for things you seldom do?

Here's a story which is actually counter-supportive to my argument, but I was told early on; don't rely on fancy programs, and don't create a bunch of scripts to make your life easy.  Some of the best advice I ever had.  Because Unix is so old, most systems share a lot of basic commands and structures, so if you learn those basics, you'll be able to work on nearly any *nix OS.

Anyway, this guy I worked with was a proper Linux nerd, while our main OS was FreeBSD.  He decided his workstation (which like every workstation was actually some kind of server for something else too, mine was the webserver, it was a small company) could do with an update, so he started messing about with shared libraries, installing his favorite bullshit programs he used at home.

Long story short, he messed around with some serious shit, and ended up dicking the machine to the extent that fstab got wiped, or it couldn't find it or whatever, which is pretty serious when you have a server like that.  Guy came up to me white as a sheet and asked me for help, because he didn't have access to any commands less than 20 years old.

Took me about 10 minutes, but using my fstab as a reference, I managed to cat the whole fstab back from the command line and boot his machine back up, and no-one was any the wiser.

I use that story a lot in job interviews.

But STILL, if I have a GUI, I can have multiple putty sessions.  This alone renders any argument against GUI null.  I can copy and paste config easily from one box to another way faster than editing an existing file, scping it, closing down that session, opening another and blah blah blah however many times before I get it right.

It's like bowl vs ice cream when the ice cream comes with a fucking bowl

[Arkhan Asylum]

ICECREAM BOWLLLLL

yeah. 

I had to help some dipshit in highschool who was all scriptkiddielolol.


He wiped out all his config files for his screen while trying to do something stupid with his video card.


HALP I CANTPLAY GUIDLDWARS AND WOW IN WINE, HOW I FIX.


then he fucked it all up trying to dual-boot, so I had to sit and do it again.
It's a pain in the balls.

[Sparky]

iPod syncing?  LOL who uses that trash?

Hundreds of millions of people on horses shorter than yours.

And just as many are republicans, religious zealots, and child molesters.  Majority is nothing but a bunch of silly numbers.

wat.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The saddle has a big wood rod on it.

[SuperDeadite]

So much jealousy here.  It's ok, just keep pretending your ifail doesn't sound like ass.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Jealousy of what?

[SuperDeadite]

Well I'm not a horse fetishist for one.

[Sparky]