MSR *WILL* be finished, come hell or high water... hell more likely.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Is there any interest in throwing in the "Myseterious Insanity" check disc along with the raffle as a second place prize?

If I win teh rafuru of it, I'd be slappin that bitch into a case next to the last remaining CCAG copy, and last remaining un-cut insanity package artwork

lol

[VestCunt]

Is there any interest in throwing in the "Myseterious Insanity" check disc along with the raffle as a second place prize?

Ah, just send it to RV and get it over with.

[Arkhan Asylum]

BIG MONEY.
BIG MONEY.
CMON BIG MONEY.

NO WHAMMIES!

[shubibiman]

As would ZZ Top say : "I'm bad, I'm Nationwide". That would sound great in a commercial :p

[spenoza]

Any response from the presser on why they sent you the entirely wrong project?

[BlueBMW]

Just noticed the thread title change.... not sure if I should laugh or cry.

[Keranu]

Any response from the presser on why they sent you the entirely wrong project?

Nope . I was hoping to at least get a response by the end of Friday, but nothing. Even a "I'll be looking into it" notification would've been assuring.

[Tatsujin]

Just noticed the thread title change.... not sure if I should laugh or cry.

damn yes

lol@ keranus sig.

[esteban]

Hany poignantly mutters, "We will all laugh at this when we hold MSR in our hands. Yay! Then we will hop into our hovercars and race around the rings of Saturn."

[PikachuWarrior]

I have dibs on a November release!

[esteban]

I have dibs on a November in 21st. century release!

Hany, almost inaudibly, squeaks, "Fixed that for you."

[NecroPhile]

Just noticed the thread title change.... not sure if I should laugh or cry.

I went with tears.

[Samurai Ghost]

It goes without saying, but a lack of a response regarding this issue is pretty unprofessional on their part. I know it must be frustrating on their side as well, but it's just something they have to make right.

Also, just a thought but would it help if they had a Duo on hand to test the disc with? Might not be worth it at this stage but for future projects perhaps lending the pressing plant a system for testing purposes would save a lot of headaches.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I wouldn't send my toys to random strangers.

Fuck that.



My guess is they are like "oh shit. now what" and are running around trying to figure out how to respond to such a fuck up.


I still wonder what would happen if I emailed them asking to explain why MY copyright goods were pressed and sent to someone else, lol.

[hizaygizirlz]

I wouldn't send my toys to random strangers.

Fuck that.



My guess is they are like "oh shit. now what" and are running around trying to figure out how to respond to such a fuck up.


I still wonder what would happen if I emailed them asking to explain why MY copyright goods were pressed and sent to someone else, lol.

I'm optimistic this game gets done this year.

However if it gets to the point where they are totally unhelpful you should do this just for giggles and to give them a headache.

We can already see that their customer service is lacking severely

[MotherGunner]

Agreed! I am hoping MSR does NOT get grouped in with Diablo III and Duke Nukem Forever...

[spenoza]

Are PC Engine CDs completely non-standard/out of spec, or are they simply an antiquated or out of date standard?

[OldRover]

The data track is not ISO-9660 compliant... that is likely the issue.

[BlueBMW]

The data track is not ISO-9660 compliant... that is likely the issue.

That's because its ISO-OBEY compliant

[Mathius]

The data track is not ISO-9660 compliant... that is likely the issue.

That's because its ISO-OBEY compliant

...which means that their disc readers are probably blowing up in a shower of lights and sound! 

[OldMan]

Are PC Engine CDs completely non-standard/out of spec, or are they simply an antiquated or out of date standard?

Possibly, it's an out-of-date standard, although from my researches, they meet the iso standards (at least, ecma-119, as of sept 1998).
The real problem, however, is the same one that prevents you from playing turbo cds in a pc cd player: Micro$oft decided that data cds must have the data track as track 1 on a cd. Note that that is -not- in the standard. It's something imposed by micro$oft in their cd drivers, and adopted as a de-facto standard for cds.

The net result of this is that most places refuse to burn a cd-rom where the data track is not track 1, even though they may be iso compliant. The drivers on the pc's they use to run the pressing machines just cannot handle those cd's.

The data track is not ISO-9660 compliant... that is likely the issue

No. The issue, if there actually is one, is that a data track requires specific length gaps before and after it. It -may- also be a requirement the the audio tracks be seperated by 2 sec gaps, though I have not been able to verify that. Normal cds do -not- have this requirement, so I can't see why a data cd would. But it might be a problem.

With that said, there should be no reason they can't make a bit-for-bit copy of the master. If the cd-r master boots on a turbo/duo, a bit-for-bit copy should boot.
However, it appears they can't/won't make a bit-for-bit copy for some unknown reason.

[OldRover]

I do know that they try to verify the data, so they are more than likely looking for CDFS compliance. That's been one of their gripes from the start... that the data track is "full of errors", even though it's always been just fine. But since we can't ever get any more details from these boneheads, we can't confirm jack shit.

[CrackTiger]

I'd send another email requesting un update at this point. Of all the issues that have come up, this one is completely their fault and if they don't have answers for everything (like was that successful copy from a master of Insanity or MS?), they should at least give an update of some sort, since they charged $200+ for this.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I still think they are scrambling around.   Someone likely hit the "Oh shit, Oh shit" button because they just pressed the wrong disc.

[Mathius]

Has anyone called them???

[Keranu]

Still no email since I sent them the bad news last Thursday. I'll shoot them a reminder soon, I'm guessing their scientists are still trying to figure out what's wrong.

[jlued686]

I'm just throwing this out there, but I think you guys need to be more assertive on this. Thursday is now pushing four entire business days with no response. For a fuck up of this magnitude, that's unacceptable. And like others have said: stop with the emailing. You need to have these guys on the horn every day until they get their shit together. Or, simply, demand a refund.

Keranu, I've met you, so I know what a nice guy you are. But it's time to bring out the beast!

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, its baffling that you wouldn't be talking on the phone about this. It's also kind of crazy that they "can't test" the game because they don't have the hardware. Just loan the guys a Duo or at least a copy of Magic Engine. They are idiots, certainly, but you need to understand that you are putting them in a hard situation when you ask them to print a disc in an obsolete format that their software (and everyone else's) doesnt support, they've never heard of, have no specs for, and can't even test. They are flying blind and certainly regret taking on this PITA project at least as much as you regret sending it to them.

[OldRover]

I have their number right here. I will sic my wife on them tomorrow... she has a knack for getting shit like this done. The company doesn't like dealing with PR though, so I dunno how well it's gonna work out.

[Keranu]

I wish we could have direct contact with their technicians, unfortunately we're stuck with customer service to serve as a messenger between our teams. We'll try calling them more frequently, though it's still going to take Brian time to get back to us.

Yeah, its baffling that you wouldn't be talking on the phone about this. It's also kind of crazy that they "can't test" the game because they don't have the hardware. Just loan the guys a Duo or at least a copy of Magic Engine. They are idiots, certainly, but you need to understand that you are putting them in a hard situation when you ask them to print a disc in an obsolete format that their software (and everyone else's) doesnt support, they've never heard of, have no specs for, and can't even test. They are flying blind and certainly regret taking on this PITA project at least as much as you regret sending it to them.

I thought about the idea of getting them to use an emulator, but I think it would be too much for them to figure out, nor would they be interested in fiddling around with unfamiliar hardware from three decades ago. But this is what the checkdisc is for anyways so we can make sure everything's working properly before approving a batch of 500 discs.

[PikachuWarrior]

Emailing them with these huge issues won't get anything done. Like others have said, actively calling them--speaking to an actual person--is the only way to go. Are we all this afraid of verbal communication here? I mean really.

[CrackTiger]

Hopefully, if we send them a Duo to test the game, they don't send us a Genesis back.

[BlueBMW]

If they need hardware to test on, let me know and i'll send them a duo-r.

[Mathius]

Emailing them with these huge issues won't get anything done. Like others have said, actively calling them--speaking to an actual person--is the only way to go. Are we all this afraid of verbal communication here? I mean really.

They have communicated verbally several times. With a mess up this bad they should have been the ones calling.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Hopefully, if we send them a Duo to test the game, they don't send us a Genesis back.

No, we'll probably get an N-Gage....if we're lucky!

[esteban]

Hopefully, if we send them a Duo to test the game, they don't send us a Genesis back.

No, we'll probably get an N-Gage....if we're lucky!

This is so true it is bringing tears to my eyes.

[OldRover]

I have given my wife all the relevant details. She will be calling them shortly and we will get this shit resolved.

[VestCunt]

I have given my wife all the relevant details. She will be calling them shortly and we will get this shit resolved.

Too many chefs. Involving more people will confuse them, allow them to exploit the situation by telling different people different things, or make FU look disorganized. They need to know that the person they've been talking to - Keranu - has authority and will be on their ass until this is sorted out.

[OldRover]

Keranu does not have the time, nor the technical expertise, to fully deal with this. My wife has both.

[OldRover]

My wife was able to bypass their trained monkeys in customer service and go straight to the techs, who all had a good laugh at some of the bullshit Brian has told Keranu. A new stamper will be produced on Friday, and the check disc will be sent out in about a week. Keranu should have it sometime in early August. They cited one minor index issue still remains with the existing master, and I'm going to try to get more specific details on that so it can be ironed out in case... plus, it may help to refine TheOldMan's cuesheet utility.

[Arkhan Asylum]

My wife was able to bypass their trained monkeys in customer service and go straight to the techs, who all had a good laugh at some of the bullshit Brian has told Keranu. A new stamper will be produced on Friday, and the check disc will be sent out in about a week. Keranu should have it sometime in early August. They cited one minor index issue still remains with the existing master, and I'm going to try to get more specific details on that so it can be ironed out in case... plus, it may help to refine TheOldMan's cuesheet utility.

Keep in mind, most of what Brian says is parroted back from testers and tech people... ,


this is good news though.   They say anything interesting about repressing the wrong game? 

[Keranu]

My wife was able to bypass their trained monkeys in customer service and go straight to the techs, who all had a good laugh at some of the bullshit Brian has told Keranu. A new stamper will be produced on Friday, and the check disc will be sent out in about a week. Keranu should have it sometime in early August. They cited one minor index issue still remains with the existing master, and I'm going to try to get more specific details on that so it can be ironed out in case... plus, it may help to refine TheOldMan's cuesheet utility.

Wow I don't know how your wife was able to talk to the tech team, Brian seemed to avoid the idea completely whenever I asked if I could get in touch with them. Must be that spicy Latin blood in your wife's DNA! Good thing she called now because I'm going to be out of town this week and wouldn't be able to call on Friday.

I'm still confused as to why they pressed Insanity to a check disc...

[OldRover]

She doesn't fuck around. Elsie is the kind of woman you just don't say no to when it comes to stuff like this... her particular brand of assertive attitude will crush those of weak minds and she will get the results we need. That's why I had her do it, rather than me... I would have been coarse and demanding, which doesn't always translate into favorable results.

In fact, it was Brian himself who gave her the contact information for the tech team... he wanted to get her off the phone as quickly as possible.

[spenoza]

Honey does often work better than vinegar, but some people have this way of introducing a little hot sauce into the honey so that you get the best of both.

[PikachuWarrior]

That's reassuring!

[TheClash603]

Wooo!  This is good news!   Good thing they didn't ask for another $300 for check disc #2, lol.

[OldRover]

They would have gotten a foot in the ass if they'd tried that...

...well ok, actually, she would have demanded a full refund and project cancellation.

[OldMan]

They cited one minor index issue still remains with the existing master

The cue sheet generator works in times. It doesn't do anything with the indexes. (Not that it can't, but by default it doesn't) If there's an index problem, it's most likely due to Nero and/or CDRwin.

I've been over and over this again in my head, using the iso spec sheets I found on the net. The only things I can think of that -might- cause problems are:

1) the data track not being aligned to an even second time. (ie, 00:04.23 instead of 00:05.00) I'm fairly sure we didn't do that for insanity, though....

2) The audio might need 2 sec gaps. I don't see why, as normal cd's don't, but there is no information on the net saying anything about how the audio on a data cd is set up.
    Should this be the problem, I already have a fix in the generator to take care of that. And the even second alignment, too.

Personally, I think it is fine, unless there is damage to the master disc. I bet when Keranu gets the check disc, everything works. The turbo is really -very- forgiving about the disc format and indexes.

(Keep in mind, some of the later releases mixed all kinds of tracks together. With a second copy of the program at the end of the cd, in case the first copy got scratched...Guess we better not ask them to try that, though )

[OldRover]

The check disc will tell all. And I'd like to actually get the information from the tech guys directly, so we're still gonna try to do that.

[VestCunt]

Life rules!