'pcengine-fx.com market value' Price List

[Bardoly]

Since I am a newcomer here to this site, I would like to ask you 'old-timers' who have strong price opinions to weigh in on what prices should be correct for U.S.-released TurboGrafx-16 HuCard games.  I have some extras which I would actually prefer to trade for the 'holes' in my TG-16 collection, but I'm willing to sell them and then use that money to purchase the games that I want.  I have noticed that many of the members here have VERY strong opinions about prices and I don't want to get ripped to shreds because I accidentally priced a game over 'pcenginefx market value'.  Therefore, a list of the 94 U.S.-released TurboGrafx-16 HuCard games follows, and as members chime in with what they feel that fair market value is, I'll edit the first post to reflect submitted prices and hopefully this community can come to a consensus, and this information will be available to be used by all.


HuCard    HuCard/     Complete
only        manual/     HuCard/
price        case        manual/
              price        box/case
                            price
                                              Aero Blasters
                                              Air Zonk
                                              Alien Crush
                                              Andre Panza Kick Boxing
                                              Ballistix
                                              Battle Royale
                                              Blazing Lazers
                                              Bloody Wolf
                                              Bomberman
                                              Bomberman '93
                                              Bonk's Adventure
                                              Bonk's Revenge
                                              Bonk 3: Bonk's Big Adventure
                                              Boxy Boy
                                              Bravoman
                                              Cadash
                                              Champions Forever Boxing
                                              Chase H.Q.
                                              Chew-Man-Fu
                                              China Warrior
                                              Cratermaze
                                              Cybercore
                                              Darkwing Duck
                                              Davis Cup Tennis
                                              Dead Moon
                                              Deep Blue
                                              Devil's Crush
                                              Double Dungeons
                                              Dragon Spirit
                                              Dragon's Curse
                                              Drop Off
                                              Dungeon Explorer
                                              Dungeons & Dragons: Order of the Griffon
                                              Falcon
                                              Fantasy Zone
                                              Final Lap Twin
                                              Galaga '90
                                              Ghost Manor
                                              Gunboat
                                              Hit the Ice
                                              Impossimole
                                              Jack Nicklaus' Turbo Golf
                                              Jackie Chan's Action Kung-Fu
                                              J.J. & Jeff
                                              Keith Courage in the Alpha Zones
                                              King of Casino
                                              Klax
                                              Legend of Hero Tonma
                                              Legendary Axe, The
                                              Legendary Axe II, The
                                              Magical Chase
                                              Military Madness
                                              Moto Roader
                                              Neutopia
                                              Neutopia 2
                                              New Adventure Island
                                              Night Creatures
                                              Ninja Spirit
                                              Ordyne
                                              Pac-land
                                              Parasol Stars
                                              Power Golf
                                              Psychosis
                                              R-Type
                                              Raiden
                                              Samurai Ghost
                                              Shockman
                                              Side Arms – Hyper Dyne
                                              Silent Debuggers
                                              Sinistron
                                              Soldier Blade
                                              Somer Assault
                                              Sonic Spike Volleyball
                                              Space Harrier
                                              Splatterhouse
                                              Super Star Soldier
                                              Super Volleyball
                                              Takin' It To The Hoop
                                              Tale Spin
                                              Tiger Road
                                              Time Ball
                                              Time Cruise
                                              Tricky Kick
                                              Turrican
                                              TV Sports Basketball
                                              TV Sports Football
                                              TV Sports Hockey
                                              Veigues Tactical Gladiator
                                              Victory Run
                                              Vigilante
                                              World Class Baseball
                                              World Court Tennis
                                              World Sports Competition
                                              Yo Bro
                                              --Turbografx CD System Card ver.2.0
                                              --Super System Card ver.3.0
                                              --U.S. TurboGrafx-16 console w/cords & 1 controller
                                              --U.S. TurboGrafx-CD
                                              --U.S. TurboDuo
                                              --U.S. TurboExpress
                                              --U.S. Turbo Booster
                                              --U.S. Turbo Rooster Plus
                                              --Turbo Pad controller
                                              --Turbo Tap 5-player adapter


If there is anything else which should also be on this list, then please let me know, and I will update this post accordingly.  After working this list up, I'll add the CD games, unless someone wants to create a separate thread.

[Bernie]

hmm.  I think there is already something like this on the site.  I am not 100% sure though.


Edit:  Yep, here it is.  https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7062.0

Its an older thread...BUT, can still be used as some sort of reference.

[Bardoly]

hmm.  I think there is already something like this on the site.  I am not 100% sure though.

I looked for something like this, but couldn't find anything.  If you do find something which could care for this community need, then let me know, and I'll shut this thread down.

[Bernie]

Yep, here it is.  https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7062.0

[tpivette]

Everyone's opinion differs on this subject, but unless the games are kinda rare (Legend of Hero Tonma, Neutopia 2, Beyond Shadowgate), then I just raffle them off if I get extras in a lot or whatever

Gotta give back to the community that gives so much up front

[DildoKKKobold]

Can we just make this the current price for Magical Chase?

[CrackTiger]

For games which never came as a case, the middle price is for HuCard + sleeve + manual.


HuCard    HuCard/     Complete
only        manual/     HuCard/
price        case        manual/
              price        box/case
                            price
15             20          25              Aero Blasters
25             30          50              Air Zonk
 7              10         15              Alien Crush
 5              10         15              Andre Panza Kick Boxing
 5              8           15              Ballistix
 7              10         15              Battle Royale
 7              10         15              Blazing Lazers
 10            20         25              Bloody Wolf
 5              8          15              Bomberman
 30            40         50              Bomberman '93
 5              10         15              Bonk's Adventure
 10            15         20              Bonk's Revenge
 60            70         90              Bonk 3: Bonk's Big Adventure
  5             7           10             Boxy Boy
 7              12         15             Bravoman
 15             25         30            Cadash
  5               8         13            Champions Forever Boxing
  15            20         30            Chase H.Q.
  20            25         35            Chew-Man-Fu
   5              7         10            China Warrior
  15             20        25            Cratermaze
  10             12        17            Cybercore
  25             35        45            Darkwing Duck
    5              7        10            Davis Cup Tennis
   15             20       30            Dead Moon
    5              7         10           Deep Blue
   15             20        25           Devil's Crush
    7              10       20            Double Dungeons
    5               7        10            Dragon Spirit
    15             22       27           Dragon's Curse
     7              12      17            Drop Off
     8             10       15            Dungeon Explorer
    20             30       40           Dungeons & Dragons: Order of the Griffon
     5              7        12           Falcon
     5              7       10            Fantasy Zone
     7              10      15           Final Lap Twin
     5              7       12           Galaga '90
     15            22      30           Ghost Manor
     10            12      20           Gunboat
      5             7       15           Hit the Ice
      7             10      15          Impossimole
      5             7       10           Jack Nicklaus' Turbo Golf
      25           30      45           Jackie Chan's Action Kung-Fu
       5             7      12           J.J. & Jeff
       5             7      80           Keith Courage in the Alpha Zones
       7            10      14          King of Casino
       9            14      20          Klax
      40           55      70          Legend of Hero Tonma
       5            7       10          Legendary Axe, The
      10           15       20         Legendary Axe II, The
      200         250     400        Magical Chase
      10            15      25         Military Madness
      5               7      10         Moto Roader
      15            20      30         Neutopia
      30            35      50         Neutopia 2
      25            30      50         New Adventure Island
      10            15      25         Night Creatures
       7             10      15         Ninja Spirit
       5              7       12        Ordyne
       5              5       8          Pac-land
       20            25     40         Parasol Stars
       5              5       8          Power Golf
       8              12     17         Psychosis
       10            15     20          R-Type
       20            25     35          Raiden
       30            40     60         Samurai Ghost
       17           25      35         Shockman
       10           15      20         Side Arms – Hyper Dyne
       10          15      20          Silent Debuggers
       15          20      30          Sinistron
       30          40      60          Soldier Blade
       20          25      40          Somer Assault
       5            7      10           Sonic Spike Volleyball
       7           10      15          Space Harrier
       15          25      35          Splatterhouse
       15          20      30          Super Star Soldier
       5           7       10           Super Volleyball
       5           7       9             Takin' It To The Hoop
       7           10      15           Tale Spin
       7           10      15           Tiger Road
       7           10      15           Time Ball
       15          20      30          Time Cruise
       12          17      25          Tricky Kick
       7           10      15           Turrican
       5           7       10            TV Sports Basketball
       5           7       10            TV Sports Football
       5           7       10            TV Sports Hockey
       12          17      24           Veigues Tactical Gladiator
       5           7       10            Victory Run
       5           10      15            Vigilante
       5           7       10             World Class Baseball
       5           7       10             World Court Tennis
       25          35      50            World Sports Competition
       7           12      17             Yo Bro
       20                  150            --Turbografx CD System Card ver.2.0
       50                  80              --Super System Card ver.3.0
       30                  80              --U.S. TurboGrafx-16 console w/cords & 1 controller
       80                  150            --U.S. TurboGrafx-CD
       150                 250            --U.S. TurboDuo
       100                 200            --U.S. TurboExpress
       15                  30              --U.S. Turbo Booster
       30                  60               --U.S. Turbo Rooster Plus
       10                  25               --Turbo Pad controller
       10                  25               --Turbo Tap 5-player adapter

[Sparky]

Damn, pretty much what I would say BT, except the 2.0 card I think is more like a $10 to $15 in my eyes....
Hell I would even sell cheaper then some of those prices to members here, a good foundation for prices.

[Sadler]

For games which never came as a case, the middle price is for HuCard + sleeve + manual.


HuCard    HuCard/     Complete
only        manual/     HuCard/
price        case        manual/
              price        box/case
                            price
       20                  150            --Turbografx CD System Card ver.2.0

Is that a typo? I thought the System 2.0 card came loose and either way I'd think a 3.0 card would cost way more.

[PikachuWarrior]

No, I think the prices listed in this topic are what the fellow forum members would pay among themselves. If I understand it correctly. Though, obviously on Ebay it's like double that.

[Samurai Ghost]

200         250     400        Magical Chase
       17           25      35         Shockman
       30          40      60          Soldier Blade

I'll take one of each please, CIB of course!
Those prices are unfortunately way too low.

[BigT]

200         250     400        Magical Chase
       17           25      35         Shockman
       30          40      60          Soldier Blade

I'll take one of each please, CIB of course!
Those prices are unfortunately way too low.

Yeah, no kidding... I'll take two of each.

Realistically, the volume of sales for a lot of these items is pretty low, so it's hard to really estimate prices... however, I truly doubt that anyone would realistically be able to find a complete Magical Chase for $400.

[Samurai Ghost]

Yeah the only way you'd get it cheap would be if someone had it at a garage sale and didn't know how much it was worth.

[CrackTiger]

Highest possible or hopeful possible selling prices should only interest sellers. Why would a buyer care about the MOST a game can sell for? Seriously, if you are looking to buy a particular game, why would you even be aware of the highest prices? Non-investor buyers should only be concerned with lower end prices, unless over-paying is part of your hobby (unfortunately, it is bragging rights for some). Dynastic Hero has only sold for $50 for what, the past year now? But we should ignore that and instead focus on the imaginary prices it could have sold for instead? Or does it only work in gouging-supporting ways?

I paid $5 for a sealed Magical Chase. Some clown paying $5000 for one is an extreme in the opposite end. Both are equally factual. The prices I listed are double what MC sold for up until the market began being unnaturally manipulated. I know of people who have bought and sold them for lower prices than I listed since then as well. Why do you guys think that MC is rarely listed for sale anymore, if it is so easy to sell for the gouged prices it supposedly demands? Soldier Blade has also slowed in sales in gouging circles, as those who snatch them up, believing them to be priceless, continue to see them failing to sell at crazy escalating prices. In the meantime, the credit card interest these people are racking up convinces them to continue to hold out for the market to support the fantasy so they can perhaps at least break even on their investments.

I've seen Shockman either sell or available to buy at the prices I listed a few times in the past six months, one of which I bought for myself. High-end eBay prices are above market value, by the very nature of eBay for both buyers and sellers. Checkout the current completed listings for Shockman and properly interpret the unsold, sold and total number of listings, factoring in eBay fees and now limited completed view, etc. And these are still higher than what some sold for on eBay not long ago.

People who promote ridiculous prices wonder how the rest of us find games for reasonable prices. The first steps are to stop using top prices to gauge value and stop dismissing low end prices as freak anomalies. The best deals here and elsewhere (even through eBay) are found off the public record. I have advertised several items on this forum over the past year for prices which gouged-price-supporters say don't exist. What those listings don't show, is how I actually offered most of the buyers even better deals. They didn't ask for it, didn't haggle or anything. I just offered them to people I like. I also scored several "impossible" deals for myself that weren't advertised in threads. Some of which were offered to me unsolicited.

This is how the Turbo community has operated over the past twenty years. I based these prices on my experiences as well as knowledge of how much the appeal or lack of appeal of each item affects their range of prices. At least as much buying/selling/trading happens out of public internet view as is on display. This is no different than when I've described scenes from PCE games that I'd played through and had my accounts challenged or have even been called a liar by people who hadn't played through the same games. The "pics or it didn't happen" accusation doesn't change reality. Just because you personally aren't aware of something doesn't mean that it isn't real. Those of us who never stopped hunting down Turbo games since it was launched have witnessed the natural progression in pricing and watched the recent deliberated price fixing and understand it. It isn't sustainable because it is built on nothing by speculators and artificially supported by speculators. It isn't a theory, because we watched it happen play by play, the exact same way that fads like Beanie Babies unnaturally suddenly lept out of control from outsiders jumping in to play a money game.

Not only does every eBay listing which fails to sell at any given price tell as much a story as those which do, but every time something is given away for free, it dilutes the real actual value of the item even further. Look around at how much stuff is being given away for free around here. You can look at games I valued at $5 - $20 each as actually being worth $20 - $50 each, but they are literally selling for $0.00 on a regular basis in this forum. Just as most of the best deals happen behind the scenes, people give away at least as much stuff without publicly talking about it. I valued the loose Turbo CD System Card higher because of the novelty value of allowing you to view warning screens. But after buying a Turbo CD on here for $90, I privately sent it to someone for free after they asked to buy it with money. I've given away more Turbo/PCE stuff than I've sold on this forum and most of it has been done in private. The more people go out of their way to defend gouged prices, the more I see that I should make a big deal out of my freebies, like many of the raffles do.

The most important thing that gouged price supporters fail to understand is that true value, what something is actually worth paying for to most people, can still sit far below what it (seldom) sells for. If 90% of Turbo fans wouldn't pay more than $100 for Magical Chase and literally never will, while 1% pay the hyped gouged prices which only transpire twice a year... that means that Magical Chase it literally worth no more than $100. If you can't wrap your head around that, then you're likely be stuck in that other 9% group.

If those who don't care enough about the games to keep them and are only playing an investment game, were to only advertise Magical Chase for $100,000 and Soldier Blade for $3,000 in today's dollars for the foreseeable future, are those suddenly their real values? What if one copy sells each year? When sales of a formally regular selling games slow to a halt, it is a sign of a severely over-inflated collectors price. The gears of the market literally grind to a halt when speculation drives estimated prices so far beyond true/naturally developed value that no one is selling or buying anymore.

Each time you criticize reasonable prices and prop up gouged prices, you encourage speculators to do ridiculous things like not-so-secretly offer a Magical Chase box for $1500 with no precedent to justify the price beyond this kind of hype.

The fact of the matter is those crazy isolated prices are contained with a small bubble market within the overall genuine market. The rest of us are continuing on with the natural market, even if it has been driven further underground by those who come in to exploit it.

Is that a typo? I thought the System 2.0 card came loose and either way I'd think a 3.0 card would cost way more.

It was sold in a box which also contained a Turbo CD. Most System 3.0 Cards have their cases, but the Turbo CD Card's box is much harder to find.

[BigT]

Yeah the only way you'd get it cheap would be if someone had it at a garage sale and didn't know how much it was worth.

Then, you'd probably snag it for $5-$10, but that's a pipedream.

$400 is a very unrealistic price because:
* Those who know what Magical Chase is, will try to get >$1K or whatever the current Ebay price is for it.
* Those who have no idea what it is, will probably part with it for a few bucks (unfortunately, not too many people like this exist as the game did not have large sales numbers)

[FiftyQuid]

$30 for a complete Ghost Manor seems like a steal.  A lot of pricing is bang on, it's only a few that need some updating.

[Obfuscate]

Market value for video games is no different than anything else. I would love to hear some people here that list prices for games that go for 3 times what they say they're worth argue with an economics professor about what they are really worth. It may be what they're worth to you but they are not the current market value. It's sad these games go for so much now, I had a Turboduo as a kid but have only been collecting as an adult 3 1/2 years and just in that time the prices have doubled on most stuff. It sucks but it is what it is, I'm actually glad I "overpaid"  years ago for some games like Cotton and DE2 because if I had waited I'd either neverhave owned them or paid way more than I did. I'm really glad I only collect games that have sentimental value or that I know I'll like to play because trying to collect them all at these prices would be insane.

[Samurai Ghost]

Good points, CrackTiger. We all know eBay prices are overinflated. That's why I try to do my part to sell PCE stuff for as low as I can to forum members. Could I make more money on eBay? Probably, but I'd rather put games into the hands of gamers rather than some guy who will flip a game the next week on the same site he bought it on. Thanks for putting together a reasonable price guide. It's a fantastic start, but some of the prices are a bit optimistic considering the current climate. Soldier Blade in particular has really jumped up in price these days. Maybe it will fall again? We can only hope!

[esadajr]

Darwing Duck more expensive than Dragon's Curse? seriously?

[CrackTiger]

Magical Chase is the best example of both true value and value-based-solely-on-what-people-believe-others-value-something-for.

For 15 years, everyone could easily find Magical Chase for sale and the most it ever went for later on was $100 - $150. For the last few years before the artificial market leap, people here discussed how crazy it was that it even went for $100. We now have all these people who, for a decade and a half, declined to buy the game for <$150, because it apparently wasn't worth that much to them. Yet now, many of these same people are suddenly happy to pay $200+ for a game they didn't want, just because the game is now currently valuable to douchebags.

$150? Pfft, no thank you. What, it's worth $1500 to people who don't play games? Please take $300 of my money NOW!

[PikachuWarrior]

Part of it is word of mouth. They buy the console and hear / or read about an article online saying "Magical Chase is the holy grail of Turbo Grafx games", and that helps to garner in interested parties, driving the price up.

[CrackTiger]

Part of it is word of mouth. They buy the console and hear / or read about an article online saying "Magical Chase is the holy grail of Turbo Grafx games", and that helps to garner in interested parties, driving the price up.

Hearing about a game yesterday and having it instantly be worth $1500 to you, while most other games for the same console are worth <$30, is speculation based on the speculation of other speculators. This is why the bubble will inevitably burst. You can't continue feeding off of another, building up prices based on nothing.

[geise]

God damn Magical Chase.  Here we go...




I would also like to point out that BT's list is pretty damn accurate for buying outside of ebay.  REMEMBER! "buying.outside.of.ebay"
Bardoly, I would pretty much go by BT's list.  There's some leeway but if you are going to sell here then those prices would be good and should sell fairly quickly.

[bartre]

agreed, BT's list is pretty accurate, most of my collection has been purchased for less than his prices, with the exception of two games.
dragon's curse - $31 - wanted it real bad, didn't know about this site
Legendary Axe - $9 - eh, two bucks, pretty game, didn't care.

and to anyone who thinks he's crazy, i got shockman at the end of last year for $35, complete and damned sexy.

[Xray]

I sold my copy of MC, complete with box/manual, a couple years back.
Don't recall what I got, must have been somewhere between $325-$375. No regrets. Never particularly cared for the game itself, and felt if someone wanted to pay that much for it, have at it.
Never thought about it until now, but its likely been flipped multiple times since then ,,, And sure, the bubble will pop. Its value is entirely intrinsic, and is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. If I had another copy, I'd sell it now, rather than hoard it in the expectation that the price will double in a year.

I collect historical military things, primarily WW2 USMC, and Imperial & WW2 German - Talk about a mine field !
Bubbles pop, and new ones are formed. Things that might have been worth an easy $300 last month, you might be lucky to get $100 for ,,, And sometimes, the other way around. Plus, there are hoards of fakes to contend with, at least thats not much of a factor with video games.
I'm not  an investment collector, so market trends don't affect me much one way or the other - I look at it the same was as with these games.

[DildoKKKobold]

Wow, this rambling, incoherent mess is wrong on so many levels. Additionally, there is a certain level of arrogance littered in this post. It states that anyone who doesn't agree with your prices is a gouger, idiot, etc. Apparently, you know more than the free market.

Highest possible or hopeful possible selling prices should only interest sellers. Why would a buyer care about the MOST a game can sell for? Seriously, if you are looking to buy a particular game, why would you even be aware of the highest prices? Non-investor buyers should only be concerned with lower end prices, unless over-paying is part of your hobby (unfortunately, it is bragging rights for some). Dynastic Hero has only sold for $50 for what, the past year now? But we should ignore that and instead focus on the imaginary prices it could have sold for instead? Or does it only work in gouging-supporting ways?

First off, that Dynastic Heroes for $50 was a once off, idiotic move by a seller. That is not Open Market Value. Lets look at actual completed auctions -

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/game/turbografx-16/dynastic-hero-%5Bsuper-cd%5D#completed-auctions

Regardless of your PERSONAL opinions on its value, it has been demonstrated in the real world what people value it at, and it is well above $50. A buyer should be concerned with what the current fair market value, so they don't get ripped off, and have a good expectation of what they should expect to pay. Numbers pulled directly from the ass of Black Tiger are hardly an indicator of value.

I paid $5 for a sealed Magical Chase. Some clown paying $5000 for one is an extreme in the opposite end. Both are equally factual. The prices I listed are double what MC sold for up until the market began being unnaturally manipulated. I know of people who have bought and sold them for lower prices than I listed since then as well. Why do you guys think that MC is rarely listed for sale anymore, if it is so easy to sell for the gouged prices it supposedly demands? Soldier Blade has also slowed in sales in gouging circles, as those who snatch them up, believing them to be priceless, continue to see them failing to sell at crazy escalating prices. In the meantime, the credit card interest these people are racking up convinces them to continue to hold out for the market to support the fantasy so they can perhaps at least break even on their investments.

Wow, you made up so much bullshit here, it makes Fox News look factual. Lets address them here.

#1. "MC sold for up until the market began being unnaturally manipulated." - How was the market unnaturally manipulated? This is basic freaking economics. MC is on everyone's want list - and there are nowhere near enough copies to go around. Thus, on the open market, i.e. Ebay, it goes to the person willing to pay the most. Any back-room deals or amazing finds don't count towards the actual value; they weren't exposed to an open market of buyers to determine the price.

#2. "Why do you guys think that MC is rarely listed for sale anymore, if it is so easy to sell for the gouged prices it supposedly demands? " Because there is no supply! The people who have it want to keep it! Why are there no Nintendo World Championships available if they sell for $23,000? Jeez, with this logic, the Mona Lisa should be for sale, since it would fetch $100 Million or more!

#3. "In the meantime, the credit card interest these people are racking up convinces them to continue to hold out for the market to support the fantasy so they can perhaps at least break even on their investments." Talk about fantasy. In this single line, you are determining that the people who are buying rare Turbografx games are A) only buying them as investments, and B) somehow you mystically know they are all in credit card debt. Perhaps this is a reflection on how YOU live your life.

That last point just makes my head spin. How anyone can take you serious after that is beyond me. You live in this fantasy world where you know so much about every ebay buyer and seller. The reality is you really don't know anything about these people; how they got the games they are selling, why they are willing to pay what they are, or what their current financial situation is.

I've seen Shockman either sell or available to buy at the prices I listed a few times in the past six months, one of which I bought for myself. High-end eBay prices are above market value, by the very nature of eBay for both buyers and sellers. Checkout the current completed listings for Shockman and properly interpret the unsold, sold and total number of listings, factoring in eBay fees and now limited completed view, etc. And these are still higher than what some sold for on eBay not long ago.

Ebay is the market value, if it sells! And yes, prices fluctuate, depending on who is currently looking for a game, and what they are willing to spend.

People who promote ridiculous prices wonder how the rest of us find games for reasonable prices. The first steps are to stop using top prices to gauge value and stop dismissing low end prices as freak anomalies. The best deals here and elsewhere (even through eBay) are found off the public record. I have advertised several items on this forum over the past year for prices which gouged-price-supporters say don't exist. What those listings don't show, is how I actually offered most of the buyers even better deals. They didn't ask for it, didn't haggle or anything. I just offered them to people I like. I also scored several "impossible" deals for myself that weren't advertised in threads. Some of which were offered to me unsolicited.

Once again, a private sale isn't the open market, and in no way determines the actual value of an item.  Only when a group of buyers is allowed to make a choice of whether or not to buy an item, and for how much, is a real price determined.

Not only does every eBay listing which fails to sell at any given price tell as much a story as those which do, but every time something is given away for free, it dilutes the real actual value of the item even further. Look around at how much stuff is being given away for free around here. You can look at games I valued at $5 - $20 each as actually being worth $20 - $50 each, but they are literally selling for $0.00 on a regular basis in this forum. Just as most of the best deals happen behind the scenes, people give away at least as much stuff without publicly talking about it. I valued the loose Turbo CD System Card higher because of the novelty value of allowing you to view warning screens. But after buying a Turbo CD on here for $90, I privately sent it to someone for free after they asked to buy it with money. I've given away more Turbo/PCE stuff than I've sold on this forum and most of it has been done in private. The more people go out of their way to defend gouged prices, the more I see that I should make a big deal out of my freebies, like many of the raffles do.

If you win a free car on a game show, you are required to pay tax on its actual value. Just because you got the car for free doesn't mean that it doesn't have a market value (which you are taxed on!), and your free car is in no way factored into what people consider the car worth.  People here are willing to give away games that they could get money for. That is awesome of them, but it has no effect on the actual value someone is willing to pay.

The most important thing that gouged price supporters fail to understand is that true value, what something is actually worth paying for to most people, can still sit far below what it (seldom) sells for. If 90% of Turbo fans wouldn't pay more than $100 for Magical Chase and literally never will, while 1% pay the hyped gouged prices which only transpire twice a year... that means that Magical Chase it literally worth no more than $100. If you can't wrap your head around that, then you're likely be stuck in that other 9% group.

Ugh, the arrogance here is amazing. You are determining exactly what the community should pay for MC, and anyone who doesn't agree is clearly a "gouger." The reason the prices are high twice a year is because that is all you see, the game available for sale twice a year.

The rest of the post continues to babble about "gougers" without any facts to actually substantiate this flawed view point. You are just claiming that you have some innate psychic ability to know what the community should value the game at.  You use words such as true, actually, most people, etc. You don't know what people will pay, only your personal valuation.

In short, to quote Billy Madison,

Mr. Black Tiger, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[NecroPhile]

DarkKobold's rambling, incoherent mess is wrong on so many levels:

First off, that Dynastic Heroes for $50 was a once off, idiotic move by a seller.

It was twice, actually, but who's counting?

That is not Open Market Value. Lets look at actual completed auctions -

bullshit, inaccurate listing that only looks at eBay and doesn't take region or condition into account

Regardless of your PERSONAL opinions on its value, it has been demonstrated in the real world what people value it at, and it is well above $50. A buyer should be concerned with what the current fair market value, so they don't get ripped off, and have a good expectation of what they should expect to pay. Numbers pulled directly from the ass of Black Tiger are hardly an indicator of value.

So the only indicator of value is eBay auctions that end above some make-believe threshold?  Sounds logical: EBAY IS THE ONLY MARKET, DAMMIT!!!

How was the market unnaturally manipulated?

By resellers buying up multiple copies of various titles to control the supply and only sell at wide profit margins.  Duh - it's basic economics.

MC is on everyone's want list - and there are nowhere near enough copies to go around. Thus, on the open market, i.e. Ebay, it goes to the person willing to pay the most. Any back-room deals or amazing finds don't count towards the actual value; they weren't exposed to an open market of buyers to determine the price.

Again: EBAY IS THE ONLY MARKET, DAMMIT!!!

#2. "Why do you guys think that MC is rarely listed for sale anymore, if it is so easy to sell for the gouged prices it supposedly demands? " Because there is no supply! The people who have it want to keep it! Why are there no Nintendo World Championships available if they sell for $23,000? Jeez, with this logic, the Mona Lisa should be for sale, since it would fetch $100 Million or more!

Sounds like you missed the point.  Surprise!

#3. "In the meantime, the credit card interest these people are racking up convinces them to continue to hold out for the market to support the fantasy so they can perhaps at least break even on their investments." Talk about fantasy. In this single line, you are determining that the people who are buying rare Turbografx games are A) only buying them as investments, and B) somehow you mystically know they are all in credit card debt. Perhaps this is a reflection on how YOU live your life.

That last point just makes my head spin. How anyone can take you serious after that is beyond me. You live in this fantasy world where you know so much about every ebay buyer and seller. The reality is you really don't know anything about these people; how they got the games they are selling, why they are willing to pay what they are, or what their current financial situation is.

The reality is that you know no more about their financial situation, yet are proclaiming that B.T. can't possibly be correct.  Thank God for omniscient clowns.

Ebay is the market value, if it sells! And yes, prices fluctuate, depending on who is currently looking for a game, and what they are willing to spend.

Yet again: EBAY IS THE ONLY MARKET, DAMMIT!!!

Once again, a private sale isn't the open market, and in no way determines the actual value of an item.  Only when a group of buyers is allowed to make a choice of whether or not to buy an item, and for how much, is a real price determined.

And once more for safety: EBAY IS THE ONLY MARKET, DAMMIT!!!

Ugh, the arrogance here is amazing.

Indeed.  The hypocrisy ain't bad either.

You are determining exactly what the community should pay for MC, and anyone who doesn't agree is clearly a "gouger." The reason the prices are high twice a year is because that is all you see, the game available for sale twice a year.

Yep, that's all you see on eBay and thus the only thing that matters!

The rest of the post continues to babble about eBay being the one true source for values (except for aberrations where something sells for less than some preconceived notion of worth) without any facts to actually substantiate this flawed view point. You are just claiming that you have some innate psychic ability to know that the community believes that eBay is the end all, be all of market pricing.  You use words such as true, actually, most people, etc. You don't know what people will pay, only your personal valuation based on high priced BINs that go unsold.


Too long, didn't read version: D.K. is weeks late and a few IQ points short, yet he's worn the clown shoes well.

[Opethian]

DarkKkobold/DildoKKKobold, you seem to have it all figured out. Please go back to ebay with that attitude.

[DildoKKKobold]

First off, that Dynastic Heroes for $50 was a once off, idiotic move by a seller.

It was twice, actually, but who's counting?

Alright, genius, if that is what it is worth, I'll pay you $75. Easy $25 profit. Go find a copy for $50. Waiting...

Oh wait, you can't.

That is not Open Market Value. Lets look at actual completed auctions -

ACTUAL FUCKING DATA!

How was the market unnaturally manipulated?

By resellers buying up multiple copies of various titles to control the supply and only sell at wide profit margins.  Duh - it's basic economics.

You are making a substantial claim here. You provide the proof. Waiting...

MC is on everyone's want list - and there are nowhere near enough copies to go around. Thus, on the open market, i.e. Ebay, it goes to the person willing to pay the most. Any back-room deals or amazing finds don't count towards the actual value; they weren't exposed to an open market of buyers to determine the price.

Again: EBAY IS THE ONLY MARKET, DAMMIT!!!

Ebay, Amazon, half, etc are the only markets open to the general public. Unless you consider PM deals here "open market." If you do, then you are retarded.

#2. "Why do you guys think that MC is rarely listed for sale anymore, if it is so easy to sell for the gouged prices it supposedly demands? " Because there is no supply! The people who have it want to keep it! Why are there no Nintendo World Championships available if they sell for $23,000? Jeez, with this logic, the Mona Lisa should be for sale, since it would fetch $100 Million or more!

Sounds like you missed the point.  Surprise!

Really, then, oh grand master, what is the point? Magical Chase isn't available for sale, to anyone at the moment. Prove me wrong.

#3. "In the meantime, the credit card interest these people are racking up convinces them to continue to hold out for the market to support the fantasy so they can perhaps at least break even on their investments." Talk about fantasy. In this single line, you are determining that the people who are buying rare Turbografx games are A) only buying them as investments, and B) somehow you mystically know they are all in credit card debt. Perhaps this is a reflection on how YOU live your life.

That last point just makes my head spin. How anyone can take you serious after that is beyond me. You live in this fantasy world where you know so much about every ebay buyer and seller. The reality is you really don't know anything about these people; how they got the games they are selling, why they are willing to pay what they are, or what their current financial situation is.

The reality is that you know no more about their financial situation, yet are proclaiming that B.T. can't possibly be correct.  Thank God for omniscient clowns.

I made NO CLAIM as to what their financial situation was. For all we know, some sellers could be exactly like BlackTiger said. However, without any factual data, we can't make any factual assertion either way. BlackTiger quoted his credit card bullshit as fact. I simply stated that "fact" was a made up fantasy.

And once more for safety: EBAY IS THE ONLY MARKET, DAMMIT!!!

You keep saying this. However, beyond Amazon and half.com, what are "open markets" available for the general public to make buying decisions? Given the world-wide nature of eBay and its ilk, you aren't going to find a more accurate indicator of what people are willing to pay, based on the availability of an item.

only your personal valuation based on high priced BINs that go unsold.

Actually, BINs that don't sell are a perfect example of the free market working. People post things, they don't sell. Ergo, they are not worth what the person asked. If you somehow thought I was suggesting that unsold BINs are an indicator of actual value, then there is no hope for you.

Too long, didn't read version: D.K. is weeks late and a few IQ points short, yet he's worn the clown shoes well.

Sticks and stones. Provide facts and data, instead of making baseless assertions and cutesy insults.

[VestCunt]

How was the market unnaturally manipulated?

By resellers buying up multiple copies of various titles to control the supply and only sell at wide profit margins.  Duh - it's basic economics.

You are making a substantial claim here. You provide the proof. Waiting...

Look here, dickbag, a lot of us have been here for years, bought our Turbos when they were in stores, we've beaten the subjects of Magical Chase, and price guides, and market manipulation to death (use the goddamn search tool), and we're not really interested in dredging the lake every two weeks when some asshole noob with fifty posts waltzes in and demands an explanation of why we don't think ebay prices are some kind of sacrament from God.  You might find a couple of receptive listeners, but you're basically arguing with a bunch of grognards and surly old misanthropes. In case you didn't notice, we have a nearly 200-hundred-page thread bitching about ebay prices and half the guys here are members of the Fuck Ebay Club. If you're so smart and we're so arrogant, then crawl back to ebay or try to find good deals and raffles on Racketboy. If you don't like our views, you're caucusing with the wrong party.

Anyway, here's one account for your proof:

What really gets me is a particular guy who sells on ebay... I asked him if he had MC, because of the items(s) he was selling, and he told me he had 6 or 8 copies.  And when I keep harassing him, presumably to sell me a copy, he told me he was holding on to them for investment purposes. 

Magical Chase isn't available for sale, to anyone at the moment. Prove me wrong.

There is one copy of MC available on the public market right now. You have to be a little bit resourceful to find it, but it's there and the price, while outlandish by our standards, would probably be reasonable by yours, considering its condition.

[Lilgrafx]

Yep, here it is.  https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7062.0

$175 for magical chase, I wish

[DildoKKKobold]

Look here, dickbag, a lot of us have been here for years, bought our Turbos when they were in stores, we've beaten the subjects of Magical Chase, and price guides, and market manipulation to death (use the goddamn search tool), and we're not really interested in dredging the lake every two weeks when some asshole noob with fifty posts waltzes in and demands an explanation of why we don't think ebay prices are some kind of sacrament from God.  You might find a couple of receptive listeners, but you're basically arguing with a bunch of grognards and surly old misanthropes. In case you didn't notice, we have a nearly 200-hundred-page thread bitching about ebay prices and half the guys here are members of the Fuck Ebay Club. If you're so smart and we're so arrogant, then crawl back to ebay or try to find good deals and raffles on Racketboy. If you don't like our views, you're caucusing with the wrong party.

You actually do a good job of explaining it, this is basically the republican party. "We have our ideas, who cares about the facts?" However, I think you are speaking for far too much of the community. Don't pretend you speak for everyone here.

Also, there are plenty of people here who have been awesome to me. I've gotten good trades, good deals, and etc.  I like it here, because I do get good deals. How do I know they are deals? Because they are below eBay prices! I have no intention to resell. In fact, I've been hesitant to sell any of my extra turbo-stuff (despite numerous offers). I'd rather keep it to trade and build my collection.

Nintendo stuff? I'll sell that crap like a madman.

Finally, just because I'm new here, doesn't mean I'm new to collecting. 

Anyway, here's one account for your proof:

What really gets me is a particular guy who sells on ebay... I asked him if he had MC, because of the items(s) he was selling, and he told me he had 6 or 8 copies.  And when I keep harassing him, presumably to sell me a copy, he told me he was holding on to them for investment purposes. 

Interesting. I wonder how this is going to work out for him. I've said it elsewhere (I'm far more active at www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting), but I find video games to be a very bad investment. The short argument is that a good investment should have high liquidity. In poor economic times, video games have very very poor liquidity, as people do not have discretionary income. (People often confuse disposable and discretionary.) However, resilience in poor economic times is the exact reason to have good investments.  In essence, he is banking on the continued prosperity of his economy - a bet I'd not be willing to take in the current world economic climate.

There is one copy of MC available on the public market right now. You have to be a little bit resourceful to find it, but it's there and the price, while outlandish by our standards, would probably be reasonable by yours, considering its condition.

Interesting. I found one PCE copy available (which I don't count, but some might.) Just because I defend eBay prices, doesn't mean I'm willing to pay them. I don't know if you are willing to share it, but I'd be curious to see it. Also, wolfsaq2 would probably love to see it as well - and would possibly be happy to pay the price. The poor guy just wants to finish his TG set.

[NecroPhile]

Alright, genius, if that is what it is worth, I'll pay you $75. Easy $25 profit. Go find a copy for $50. Waiting...

Oh wait, you can't.

Did I say that those two auctions are the only determinants in estimating value?  Nope, but keep grasping at straws - your floundering makes me smile.

That is not Open Market Value. Lets look at actual completed auctions -

ACTUAL FUCKING DATA!

Yep, and the actual fucking data shows that its current value is $47.99.  You're right - it's 100% accurate!

You are making a substantial claim here. You provide the proof. Waiting...

And you're making an equally substantial counter claim.  I'm anxiously awaiting your proof. 

I and many others here have witnessed resellers like Pompey Parsons buying multiple copies when they can get 'em cheap and reselling high, but I needn't provide proof to fools (VestCunt did it for me anyway).  If you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore the facts of how resellers operate (a.k.a. basic economics), that's your problem.

Ebay, Amazon, half, etc are the only markets open to the general public. Unless you consider PM deals here "open market." If you do, then you are retarded.

And only a retard would ignore open forum sales threads, craigslist deals, local retailers, buying stuff at game conventions, etc.

Really, then, oh grand master, what is the point? Magical Chase isn't available for sale, to anyone at the moment. Prove me wrong.

The point, oh ignorant one, is that people aren't listing it for sale because it does not sell at the inflated prices clowns proclaim it to be worth.

I made NO CLAIM as to what their financial situation was. For all we know, some sellers could be exactly like BlackTiger said. However, without any factual data, we can't make any factual assertion either way. BlackTiger quoted his credit card bullshit as fact. I simply stated that "fact" was a made up fantasy.

Wrong again:  stating that B.T. was living in a fantasy world negated the possibility of him being correct.  Aren't semantics fun?

You keep saying this. However, beyond Amazon and half.com, what are "open markets" available for the general public to make buying decisions? Given the world-wide nature of eBay and its ilk, you aren't going to find a more accurate indicator of what people are willing to pay, based on the availability of an item.

See above.

Actually, BINs that don't sell are a perfect example of the free market working. People post things, they don't sell. Ergo, they are not worth what the person asked. If you somehow thought I was suggesting that unsold BINs are an indicator of actual value, then there is no hope for you.

And yet there were unsold copies of Magical Chase for less than what it's sold for on eBay.  I'm confused.... it's worth less than the unsold BINs while simultaneously worth at least as much as the sold price?

Sticks and stones.

Says the twelve year old that came out swinging for B.T.

Provide facts and data, instead of making baseless assertions and cutesy insults.

I'll use your 'facts and data': Dynastic Hero is currently worth $47.99.

[DildoKKKobold]

I make a killing buying and selling off craigslist. If craigslist were FMV, that would be impossible.

Wrong again:  stating that B.T. was living in a fantasy world negated the possibility of him being correct.  Aren't semantics fun?

No, the fantasy world was that he knew exactly the financial situation of these people.

 However, after thinking about it, I realized that it would take a special brand of stupid to put an investment in video games on a credit card. Lets take a scenario, with the mythical Legend of Hero Soldier Chase Blade TG-16 game. There is an auction right now on Ebay starting at .99c. Our faithful reseller, WhiteTiger, bids it up to $100, and wins. Now, obviously, all the other bidders on LoHSCB weren't willing to pay more than $100, so it has a FMV currently of $100. According to the theory of Credit-Gouging, WhiteTiger immediately relists it on Ebay BIN for twice the price.  If it sells, he makes $68 - shipping. ($200 * .84 (ebay/paypal fees) - $100 = $68)

However, all buyers interested in LoHSCB weren't willing to pay over the $100, so they aren't going to be interested in it at $200. So, he is stuck with it for a month, and has to pay his credit card bill. Credit card fees are currently an average of 16.87%. He's now only at $51 profit. But wait, it didn't sell another month! He now has to pay interest on his balance plus his interest! He's now got a balance of $136.59 on his credit card! Down to $32 in profit. If it doesn't sell that 2nd month... He has now spent $159.63 on the initial $100 investment. His profit is at $9, if he sells in the third month. Then it starts going negative.

Three things: Credit card debt is very, very, very bad debt to have. Buying off ebay to resell on Ebay is bad business, and third, does anyone have a copy of LoHSCB for sale? I've been looking everywhere.

I'll use your 'facts and data': Dynastic Hero is currently worth $47.99.

I'll agree. The PCE version is worth exactly that. Its not a perfect algorithm. Looking at the actual list of completed auctions, the TG-16 version is worth $300-700.

[VestCunt]

Interesting. I wonder how this is going to work out for him. I've said it elsewhere (I'm far more active at www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting), but I find video games to be a very bad investment. The short argument is that a good investment should have high liquidity. In poor economic times, video games have very very poor liquidity, as people do not have discretionary income. (People often confuse disposable and discretionary.) However, resilience in poor economic times is the exact reason to have good investments.  In essence, he is banking on the continued prosperity of his economy - a bet I'd not be willing to take in the current world economic climate.

For those in it for the money, modern video games will probably be a bad investment (just like modern baseball cards, comics, action figures, and Magic Cards). It's always the "golden age" (in this case 8-and-16-bit) stuff that people ignored and abused as kids that does well. Also, entertainment always does well in depressions (as does alcohol). The Great Recession ('08-09) was exactly when prices really went out of control and "retro gaming" went mainstream. Unlike some folks here, I don't think the NEC bubble will ever burst (unfortunately), but neither do I subscribe to the ebay price guide or the belief that my possessions don't depreciate in value.

There is one copy of MC available on the public market right now. You have to be a little bit resourceful to find it, but it's there and the price, while outlandish by our standards, would probably be reasonable by yours, considering its condition.

Interesting. I found one PCE copy available (which I don't count, but some might.) Just because I defend eBay prices, doesn't mean I'm willing to pay them. I don't know if you are willing to share it, but I'd be curious to see it. Also, wolfsaq2 would probably love to see it as well - and would possibly be happy to pay the price. The poor guy just wants to finish his TG set.

Sorry. Not to give you the high hat, but I think collectors should be resourceful and that if someone really wants it, they'll find it. This particular copy has been mentioned on the forums a couple of times, so I'm not keeping a secret from anybody. I don't know Wolfsaq2, but I don't have much sympathy for members that come around solely to cross-post the same WTB's here and on a bunch of other forums. There are a lot of members here who are both much more active and who've been looking for a copy much longer than he has.

[CrackTiger]

DarkKobold, as I mentioned in my posts that got you so excited, we were here while all of this bullshit began to evolve. Everything you demand proof of is documented in this forum. Magical Chase's instant jump in price is legendary around here. People sitting on   multiple copies of "rare" games like Magical Chase, crooked sellers with multiple accounts buying up everything below their gouged prices, insane lies used to mislead buyers... all the crap that has led to an insulated premium market for noobs which coexists along side the "give-it-all-to-me-as-proof!" market is detailed right here.

Before you jumped in to make a fool of yourself, I actually described your ridiculous argument. Why would we help someone like you scoop up some of these killer deals? We have everything to lose and nothing to gain. We aren't arrogant and don't need to bust our asses to prove anything to someone who demands we hand over our games to them.

If we're a pack of liars, then why even try arguing with us? Why don't you let us get back to paying top end eBay prices and then lying about?

[DildoKKKobold]

For those in it for the money, modern video games will probably be a bad investment (just like modern baseball cards, comics, action figures, and Magic Cards). It's always the "golden age" (in this case 8-and-16-bit) stuff that people ignored and abused as kids that does well. Also, entertainment always does well in depressions (as does alcohol). The Great Recession ('08-09) was exactly when prices really went out of control and "retro gaming" went mainstream. Unlike some folks here, I don't think the NEC bubble will ever burst (unfortunately), but neither do I subscribe to the ebay price guide or the belief that my possessions don't depreciate in value.

Funny you should mention MtG. I had a P9 set I put on Ebay about 7 years ago. The price on that has now more than doubled. I was sure that MTG was going to die soon, and I'd better get the most I could out of my cards while I could. Oh well.

So, I disagree with your statement that video games grew during the '08 recession. This chart agrees with me:

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/

However, this chart agrees with you:

http://www.whitehutchinson.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Share-graph.jpg

As a scientist, I have to present both sets of data I found ;) That said, I feel like video game prices are spiking now, because the American economy is recovering. Times of recession, people need to spend what they have on essentials, and video games are far from that. We'd need to dive into the data further to really get at whether recessions increase or decrease video game spending.

As far as the NEC stuff goes, I don't know if you can call it a bubble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_bubble). It is a rare game system that many video game collectors (like myself) didn't get a chance to own, and therefore are willing to pay a premium to finally have it. With more game collectors entering the market than leaving, prices are naturally going to rise. For it to be a bubble, it would have to be traded in far higher volume, and there would have to be some sort of corrective measure to restore "equilibrium pricing"

Sorry. Not to give you the high hat, but I think collectors should be resourceful and that if someone really wants it, they'll find it. This particular copy has been mentioned on the forums a couple of times, so I'm not keeping a secret from anybody. I don't know Wolfsaq2, but I don't have much sympathy for members that come around solely to cross-post the same WTB's here and on a bunch of other forums. There are a lot of members here who are both much more active and who've been looking for a copy much longer than he has.

That's cool. I wouldn't be buying it anyway. I'm just curious what they are asking.

[Bernie]

Is this not the guy that joined after finding that awesome Craigslist lot of TG-16?  What's his deal? 

EDIT:  Think I got DildoKKKobold mixed up with another new member.  Anyway, attacking the members here that actually give to the community aint kool man.     Saying folks are retarded for feeling a certain way, ect.  We feel the way we feel about eBay prices for the exact reasons CrackTiger mentioned.

[VestCunt]

So, I disagree with your statement that video games grew during the '08 recession. This chart agrees with me:

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/

However, this chart agrees with you:

http://www.whitehutchinson.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Share-graph.jpg

I wouldn't be surprised if other systems caught on a year or two later, but 2008 was the year for Turbo gouging on ebay and CIB noob collectors on PCEFX. IIRC, it was the year MC first doubled in price, thanks to one man. TZD shut down around the same time and the Virtual Console ramped up. The last good deals at Gameexpress and mom-and-pop online dealers were gobbled up, and BIN listings really started to surpass auctions.

Until 2008, every Turbo game could be found for less than $100, with the exceptions of Magical Chase and Dynastic Hero... and maybe Bonk 3 SCD and Super Air Zonk if you didn't have friends.

Anyone know when those retrogaming magazines started coming out? Or when Racketboy started its "rare and valuable" guides?

[DildoKKKobold]

Is this not the guy that joined after finding that awesome Craigslist lot of TG-16?  What's his deal? 

EDIT:  Think I got DK mixed up with another new member.  Anyway, attacking the members here that actually give to the community aint kool man.     Saying folks are retarded for feeling a certain way, ect.  We feel the way we feel about eBay prices for the exact reasons Black Tiger mentioned.

My deal is that I'm a big free market believer. I believe I've done a good job of toning down the anti-reseller rhetoric at my main hangout, /r/gamecollecting. It has always gotten under my skin when someone says "This is worth $X, and everyone who thinks it is worth more is wrong." This, to me, is the epitome of arrogance. Any item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and it is an attempt to exert control over other people by calling people gougers for charging what they want to get for an item.

I'm actually the one that got the awesome estate sale. However, as I said before, I was a big turbo-fan (emulator only) before I got that lot. (Tool-Assisted Speedruns no one here cares about.)

Also, I actually only called BlackTiger's posting arrogant, not the man himself.

[BlueBMW]

I like milkshakes... and cookies.

Good news, I dont think the x68000 bubble will hit for many more years!

[PunkCryborg]

Wow DildoKKKobold, your posts are almost all in sales threads and about collecting. You act so high and mighty but i'd like to see some posts in the high scores threads, clears, or participation in the completing all turbo games.
Do you even play your stuff or just let them sit on your shelf calculating their value, how much you paid and salivating to completed ebay listings?
I haven't been into turbo since day one but I will tell you this, those prices in CrackTiger's list DO happen regularly in this forum and will continue to do so as long as there are true turbo GAMERS and this place doesn't just get run over by flippers and gougers like yourself.

[Firebomber7]

I hate to say this, but I kind of agree with DarKKKobold on a number of points...

 

[TheClash603]

Also, there are plenty of people here who have been awesome to me. I've gotten good trades, good deals, and etc.  I like it here, because I do get good deals. How do I know they are deals? Because they are below eBay prices! I have no intention to resell. In fact, I've been hesitant to sell any of my extra turbo-stuff (despite numerous offers). I'd rather keep it to trade and build my collection.

I make a killing buying and selling off craigslist. If craigslist were FMV, that would be impossible.

Perhaps forum members should stop giving this guy any deals, considering he immediately follows up by saying he is exploiting us by flipping his Craigslist finds at higher prices?  It is one thing to do it, it is another thing to brag about doing it and to expect to continue to be treated well.  I wasn't going to butt in, because I think pricing is a funny issue that is subjective and in the eye of the beholder, but this rubbed me the wrong way.

[DildoKKKobold]

Also, there are plenty of people here who have been awesome to me. I've gotten good trades, good deals, and etc.  I like it here, because I do get good deals. How do I know they are deals? Because they are below eBay prices! I have no intention to resell. In fact, I've been hesitant to sell any of my extra turbo-stuff (despite numerous offers). I'd rather keep it to trade and build my collection.

I make a killing buying and selling off craigslist. If craigslist were FMV, that would be impossible.

Perhaps forum members should stop giving this guy any deals, considering he immediately follows up by saying he is exploiting us by flipping his Craigslist finds at higher prices?  It is one thing to do it, it is another thing to brag about doing it and to expect to continue to be treated well.  I wasn't going to butt in, because I think pricing is a funny issue that is subjective and in the eye of the beholder, but this rubbed me the wrong way.

How do you have it quoted that "I don't sell turbo stuff," and then go "How dare he sell the turbo stuff he gets here!" ???

Its in your quote of my text! I'm not flipping things I get here, you even quoted that factoid!

 

[TheClash603]

Also, there are plenty of people here who have been awesome to me. I've gotten good trades, good deals, and etc.  I like it here, because I do get good deals. How do I know they are deals? Because they are below eBay prices! I have no intention to resell. In fact, I've been hesitant to sell any of my extra turbo-stuff (despite numerous offers). I'd rather keep it to trade and build my collection.

I make a killing buying and selling off craigslist. If craigslist were FMV, that would be impossible.

Perhaps forum members should stop giving this guy any deals, considering he immediately follows up by saying he is exploiting us by flipping his Craigslist finds at higher prices?  It is one thing to do it, it is another thing to brag about doing it and to expect to continue to be treated well.  I wasn't going to butt in, because I think pricing is a funny issue that is subjective and in the eye of the beholder, but this rubbed me the wrong way.

How do you have it quoted that "I don't sell turbo stuff," and then go "How dare he sell the turbo stuff he gets here!" ???

Its in your quote of my text! I'm not flipping things I get here, you even quoted that factoid!

I didn't mention anything about you selling Turbo stuff.  What was made clear by your previous posts is:

1.)  You like to purchase games cheaply and then resell them for a "killing."  You have used Craigslist for your cheap purchases in the past.
2.)  You have gotten games at "good deals" on this site.  I am not sure if this was via trade or purchase.

My deductive reasoning has led me to believe that if you get good deals on games on Craigslist and then sell them for a killing, you would likely do the same with your good deals here.  You seem very keen on FMV and profitability, so there is not much of a stretch in my logic.  Additionally, the games that you acquire on Craigslist in a good deal, you would likely trade them on this site at a higher value than you received them for, in order to continue your killing ways.  This is unfortunate, because it seems the people on the other side of your trades have been fair with their offers.

[DildoKKKobold]

My deductive reasoning has led me to believe that if you get good deals on games on Craigslist and then sell them for a killing, you would likely do the same with your good deals here.  

Except for when I specifically said I'm not selling turbo stuff. Plus, the "good deals" here were by no means good enough to make a profit on, just enough to save a couple bucks off what I'd pay on Ebay. You don't even know what the deals were, yet you are "deductive reasoning" a bunch of hooey.

Additionally, the games that you acquire on Craigslist in a good deal, you would likely trade them on this site at a higher value than you received them for, in order to continue your killing ways.  This is unfortunate, because it seems the people on the other side of your trades have been fair with their offers.

SO WAIT A MINUTE, by your logic, if I pay $10 for Beyond Shadowgate on Craigslist, then i am somehow morally obligated to only trade it for that value? That logic is silly.

Also, the "deals I've made" have all been private, and have been fair FMV wise.  I don't know what the other traders paid for their goods, or how they acquired them, and I don't care. Nor should they care how much I acquired my stuff for. What they should care about is that they got a fair deal, and are happy with what they got.

Oh, and as a final note, both trades were suggested to me, not by me.

Your deductive reasoning failed.

[VestCunt]

DK - I'm so sorry you've encountered arrogant people on the internet. Black Tiger and NecroPhile - please go and reactivate all of those gougers' ebay accounts. We're wrong to police the entirely of the internet - sellers can charge what they please!

DK  - Now go read fifty pages of the "gouging much" thread. We've argued with idiots like you about the free market. We've argued with dudes who disagree with our estimates. We've argued with schmucks defending gougers' rights and we've argued with overly-sensitive noobs about anti-reseller rhetoric. We've argued why we believe what we do and why ebay =/= a price guide. Do Ebay and Amazon really equal a "free market" or are they an unbridled monopoly comprised of two corporations? Do ebay policies really create a buyers' market, or do they put all of the power in the hands of the power sellers? These topics and more await you in the Gouging thread!

Ignored.

[Xray]

There are flippers in any collectible market, I hear the exact same arguments in military collecting, they tend to get very heated.
Flippers don't set trends in themselves, but are caught up in the trends ,,, And in addition to making a profit, there can be a strong attraction to the "thrill of the chase" type of thing.
They are always treated with disdain by those passionate in their particular field, and with indifference by most others.

Myself, as I detailed in my recent intro thread, I have a decent collection enough to make any flipper drool. I have resisted thoughts of selling it over the years, and don't see that changing any time soon. I'd have no shame however in maximizing my profit when and if I ever do though.
Since I'm old enough to have bought many games first hand when they were available for sale at Toys R Us, and still have all but 1 of them 20+ years down the road, I guess I'd be classified as anti-flipper.
I don't look at my collection as an investment, so I rarely pay attention to pricing trends unless I'm looking to buy or sell something specific.

[NecroPhile]

My deal is that I'm a big free market believer.

No you're not - you're an eBay market believer.  If goods sold anywhere outside of eBay don't count for determining value, then you don't believe in the entire free market.

It has always gotten under my skin when someone says "This is worth $X, and everyone who thinks it is worth more is wrong." This, to me, is the epitome of arrogance.

But there's no arrogance in you saying "This is worth $X, and everyone who thinks it is worth less is wrong."?  You're a hypocrite and a fool.

Also, I actually only called BlackTiger's posting arrogant, not the man himself.

Typical double talk from a clown.  The post was just inanimate words and therefor incapable of arrogance - the act can only be attributed to the person composing the words.