Home Brew TG 16 Edge lit sign

[Xray]

Sometimes, amazingly detailed.
Sometimes, and often for reasons I don't understand, not. I did a Cadillac crest emblem for a guy I was working with, came out fantastically detailed on the 1st try. Then I tried a Red Wings logo, which is fairly simple, and it took 5 attempts to get something looking decent.
Obviously, a brand new, sharp bit will cut much better than a used dulled one, thats probably where I run into most detail problems, trying to stretch the life of a worn $40 bit. Temperature in my shop can even be a factor, as can feed speeds, spindle speeds ect ... So there are quite a few variables in consistently getting a top notch product.

The program I have generates previews of what any given project is supposed to look like when cut, here is one I'm working on at the request on another member.



This is exactly what its supposed to look like when cut. It knows what bit I'm using, how deep I'm going, feed speed, spindle speed, material thickness ect, and its supposed to come out as pictured above.

This is 8x6 also ,,, Generally, the bigger the object is, the better detail you can get - And also, you lose detail the deeper you go, so I like to just scratch the surface when detail is required. It literally takes just a scratch for the edge lit affect to work ,, But some projects that don't requite alot of detail, going deeper gives it more of an appearance of depth, so its really can be a balancing act with these projects, with trade offs to be made depending on what is desired.

But its tough to say, until actually cut with a light beaming on the edge, whether it will look kick ass, or just Ok. Often, I will have to do a few prototypes to find out exactly what settings make it look the best. Not ideal, as it wastes both time & $$, but trial & error is sometimes the only solution.

[HercTNT]

your work is amazing, you have plenty of people intersered in it. i think ou can do as you choose and have people willing to buy. thanks for your effort, and i hope to be a future customer!!!!!!!

[roflmao]

Looks great, Xray!  I want the console one just as much as the logo one!

[csgx1]

Very nice!  The PC Engine logo looks fantastic.

[420GOAT]

i was wondering where id put one...then it hit me..my Bus...that would look sweet! i saw a diy that used one little led tolight a signg up...would that work?

[Xray]

i was wondering where id put one...then it hit me..my Bus...that would look sweet! i saw a diy that used one little led tolight a signg up...would that work?

I'm doubting if a single LED would give off sufficient light to light up a sign of this size good. As best, it would throw up a beam of light, lighting a localized area above it.
Best to use strips like these

[KnightWarrior]

Now that looks cool

[xcrement5x]

Can you do a picture of the PC Engine one with the red laser?  I'm just salivating thinking about it.

[Xray]

Here is the TG system, pretty good I think. Not the greatest judge of my own work, always seems to be room for improvement.
Detail is fairly good, this one is 8x6 as well, but due to the size/angle of the graphic, wasn't able to make use of as much area as with the others.

I'm done with demo's and prototypes, too much time and material, I have 7 stacked up right now ,,, So I'll try to start a sale/trade thread in the next couple days.
Any pictured in this thread are available for pre sale @ $25 shipped USA, will be a bit more in the sales thread ,,,, or pm if you have a hucard trade in mind.



As per request

[esteban]

I will take all of your discards. Including this one:

[Xray]

Thanks for the interest esteban, I'll send a pm to discuss details.

Don't want anyone to think I consider these scrap, they are legit acrylic turbo works of art.
The first couple have some rough edges, which I'll clean up a bit [As I said before, flame polishing works great]. The main detraction of the early pieces was that I didn't leave quite enough clear space to accommodate a holder ,,, But some thinking and tinkering should solve that problem.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I had a thought, I'd go nuts for ones that have Bonk & King Drool.  My first thought was one with Bonk(in orange) & another with Drool(in green), but then thought, maybe it'd be better to just have one with both in it, though I don't know what color I would choose...unless there was a decent way to have them lit up orange & green?  I did some Googling, & didn't find any particular Bonk & Drool that I'd want, but I know I'd want the Japanese version of them, not the American style.  I'm sure if someone could find them online somewhere, there's probably something perfect in one of those old PC Genjin comics.  Ofcoarse, I suppose if one with both of them each in a different color wouldn't work, I'd probably just go ahead & have 1 of each made.

[Xray]

Doesn't appear to be an easy way to light multiple colors ,,, I am going to try painting a TG logo with the stock orange/yellow, and see how that looks lit up.
Also am going to try a Bonk, I'll post back with the results. The preview doesn't look at that good to me, but preview is really only a rough idea, you never know if its a dud or a bomb until its cut and lit up.

PCE & console logos are spoken for, never heard back form esteban, so all other demos posted in this thread are available rock bottom $25 shipped USA.

[Bernie]

Give esteban a couple days.  He always gets back eventually.

[ParanoiaDragon]

A few of the comics can be found here, but none of them have quite what I'd be looking for.
http://bonkzonk.com/comics.ktn

Edit-I did find a Drool that I like, though, I recall there being one where he's pointing at Bonk, I wish I could find that one, I think it was used in an old Die Hard ad.  I'll try some more searching, but for now, here's a whole bunch o' Bonks n stuff:


I found the one with Drool pointing!!  It's on Esteban's site, though, only half of it is viewable & I imagine Bonk on the left & Drool on the right, so he'd have to be flipped to be pointing at Bonk https://archives.tg-16.com/

AHA, here's the full Drool, now to find the right Bonk.  I feel like I'd want one that has Bonk doing that fast motion feet thing where his little feet are detached, but maybe that's not doable?


Ah, I have a better idea, I want the cover art to Shadow of the Beast!   Kidding!

Ok, I think of everything I've found, I like the big Bonk on the front cover of PC Genjin 3 best

[Xray]

This is a preview of the Bonk I'm doing ,,, Really not an easy subject to do.
Actual figures/people tend to be better 3d, and graphics 2d.

[esteban]

Thanks for being patient, Xray. PM sent earlier today.

Give esteban a couple days.  He always gets back eventually.

Thanks .

[ParanoiaDragon]

Looks awesome so far, though I vastly prefer the big Bonk on this:


And the Drool on this, but flipped so he's facing left:
https://archives.tg-16.com/archive-four/TF-02-25.jpg

That is, if any of it is possible?

[Xray]

Here is the franchise player, Bonk, in all his edge lit glory.
Came out decent, you SAF can tell who he is, anyhow !

As I said before, I'm done with prototypes and demos, been burning through too much time & plexi with nothing to show for it ... So I intended to offer up this one as a production example.
It has one obvious flaw however ,,, You can see it better in the blue pic, but towards the top of his head there is a razor thin scratch running the width of the piece, and for that reason, I'll offer it $25 shipped, same as the rest here.
[It is literally razor thin, I made the line with a razor by a miscalculation]. This one by far takes the longest to cut, due to Bonks big heads, so they'll go for twice that much on the sales thread.




ParanoiaDragon, neither of those examples would be suitable to turn into a vector drawing, which I need to do to go on to creating machining files.
[Didn't even see Bonk in the 2nd link]

[Xray]

Thanks for being patient, Xray. PM sent earlier today.

Give esteban a couple days.  He always gets back eventually.

Thanks .

No prob brother, shit happens, I know that as well any anyone else.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Dang, stinks that the Jp Bonk can't be done.  BITD I prefered the Bonk's Revenge style Bonk(as opposed to Bonk 1 with the glare on his head, & the blue eyes), but over the years, I came to love the Jp Bonk.  Still, if someone else doesn't nab that one, I may give in.

[Xray]

Dang, stinks that the Jp Bonk can't be done.  BITD I prefered the Bonk's Revenge style Bonk(as opposed to Bonk 1 with the glare on his head, & the blue eyes), but over the years, I came to love the Jp Bonk.  Still, if someone else doesn't nab that one, I may give in.

Not that it can't be done ,,, I could probably do it "by hand", and it would take many hours to design, just wouldn't be worth my time.
If I was commissioned to do it, as I often am for various business projects, then it would be worth my time - And thats usually for 3D projects, its pretty rare spending a whole lot of time on 2D, though it does happen, and there are complex 2D works.
[I don't even want to think about Bonk 3D - No ones buying these so far, for sure no one would pay what it would be worth my while to do 3D].

I basically look for simple black & white graphics/images, which can be made into vectored models fairly easily.

[BlueBMW]

Just curious, what cnc software are you using?  Both design and cnc programming.  I used to do plastic injection moldmaking and I primarily did the cnc work.  Its been five years since I did that line of work but I remember fabricating small car parts and such for friends.  Most didnt realize what all was involved with cnc machining.  They though you just hit a button and blamo there it was.

[Xray]

For 3D design I use a number of apps, Solidworks, Autodesk, Aspire, also use CorelDraw to create/modify alot of things to later export to one of those programs for further work. All very expensive programs with a high learning curve. I thought I was getting raped spending $4,000 on a software program until I saw others spending twice and 3 times as much .. I thought Aspire was a bargain, just under $2,000. You simply have to have these programs if you want to advance, so you gotta bite the bullet and pony up.
For basic 2D, I use Cut2D. Both Cut2D & Aspire have the ability to not only design, but also generate the toolpath gcode of the actual cut files [.tap]
The program I use that opens these generated .tap files and actually runs the machine is WinCNC.
All of these I used a copied graphic, traced vectors by hand in Aspire, then made toolpaths in Cut2D with the resulting .dfx file. Really could do it all with just Aspire, but this stuff is relatively simple, and I like the simplicity that the Cut2D interface allows. Not a whole lot of options, because you don't need alot of options.

Whether you are talking about a router [my case], a laser, mill machine, plasma cutter ect, once you learn the basics of CNC, you can apply it to all of them, though of course each one has its own particular designing/setup routines.

[BlueBMW]

We used SolidWorks and TopSolid for most of the design work.  For CNC machining we used a program called Cimatron.  I think the company that made it was trying to make an all in one software solution for making injection molds.  While Cimatron had some good 3d modeling abilities, it wasn't as versatile or advanced as TopSolid was for our applications.  Cimatron was excellent at generating tool paths for cutting 3D shapes though.  The 3d modeling abilities of Cimatron helped when I had to make electrodes for EDM processes.  It wasnt always as simple as just lifting the surfaces you wanted to cut.  I often had to tweak the shape etc of the electrode I was wanting to cut in order to make sure A: it was machinable, B: it didnt burn something it wasnt supposed to.

Hardest cut I ever had to do was a 3D undercut on a mold using a 45 degree cutting head mounted in the CNC machine.  I had to generate the tool paths as if I was cutting vertically, and then translate the whole thing 45 degrees.  Since it was a large expensive mold, it was a very nerve-racking cut.  I think I spent two full days on it.  I even mounted a piece of aluminum to the top of the mold and did a test cut on it before cutting the actual mold cavity.

What CNC machine are you using, and what sort of cutters?  (almost looks like you used some sort of a ball tip cutter in a spiral path)  We had several older 40" Fadal VMCs and three newer OKKs  (though again, this was 5+ years ago now)

Interesting work, but the long hours, and high stress nature of it made me leave.  Nothing worse than working a 100+ hour week, and having something go wrong.  That exact mold that I did that crazy undercut on was having trouble fitting together...  I worked from 5am on a Saturday til 10am on Monday (left twice for a shower) and still couldn't get it fully closed... boss came in Monday morning and got mad at me because it wasn't done.  I left, came back the next day and put in my notice.  The money was good, but no money is worth that crap.

[Xray]

I use 65 degree V bits for most 2D work, these are no exceptions. Ball noses don't work well with plexi, at least not the stuff I do. I know some guys who do some incredible 3D works, like "the last supper", in plexi, and they use tapered ball noses. I haven't worked up the nerve to try this myself yet.
RPM & feedrate are critical cutting into plexi ,,, If you don't have the right combo, the plexi will melt and weld itself right back together a second later, leaving a smeared up mess. It will also form and crystallize on the bit itself, which causes it to scratch up everywhere it goes, ruining the piece. Ideally, you like to see flaky little chips being produced from the cuts. This means you are not melting the plexi, and should have good detail and minimal cleanup on the work piece when finished.. Generally, and there are exceptions, low spindle RPM [5,000] + high feed rates [250 ipm] produce the least heat and best results.
You can for sure see some tooling marks in Bonks head, I could probably experiment to reduce or eliminate them, but not worth the while at this point.

I love CNC, maybe cause I do it on the side in my garage and not for a living. I have made $10,000's on it, so it has actually paid for itself, and most of the software ,,, And I have only been at it a couple of years. I also hand fashion alot of things with no CNC at all ,,, Which is something alot of craftsman would think of as almost sacrilegious. Like you said, they think CNC is for any moron who can shell out $10,000 for a machine and push a couple of buttons.
Let em keep thinking that way ! I look at it as just another tool to use for my purposes, and have no problem at all going from hand made to CNC, in fact, I sometimes combine both on the same projects.

[BlueBMW]

Youre making me want to pick up a CNC machine for use at home

[tggodfrey]

Dont forget to order a new garage while your at it beamer.  lol

[BlueBMW]

Eh I could make it fit.... I'd just have to park the cars outside and have at least 220 ran to the garage (if not 3 phase)

[Xray]

My machine is only 3x2 ft [cut area]. Its actual footprint is a bit bigger, but its not that large of a machine.
Built like a tank though, weighs over 400 lbs, I had to build a custom bench for it, it would crush an average table.
I'd like to upgrade to a 4x8, now that would take up a bit of space - And cost $30,000 +.
No matter how good your dust containment system is, some dust will get in the air, so I wouldn't recommend putting one in a household.


Here is my latest, and it is promising.
I first did the orange 16 logo with some stuff called "1 shot" paint, this is outstanding paint used by signmakers.
Problem here, and its obvious I know, is that its real hard to stay in the lines with a paint brush. As I stated earlier, these designs are just scratched into the plexi, probably around 1/32 [actual depth I use is .007", not sure how that would translate into a fraction]. So there is not much "edge" to guide the paintbrush, and the result looks sloppy.
When I do signs, I often just flood fill the lettering with an eyedropper, and the result looks incredible. Again, not an option here, because there is practically nothing to contain the flow.

So I thought I'd try using a sharpie for the yellow, wasn't expecting much, but it actually looks pretty good. Not nearly as vivid as the paint, but very easy to stay in the lines, and doesn't take much time - I probably spent more time brushing the sloppy 16 than I did with all the letters. As you can see, looks pretty good just sitting there, without any light. I beamed a flashlight on the edge, and the colors lit up pretty good ,,, But of course, a flashlight beam is not concentrated, so this thing just might look stellar using clear high intensity LED's.
I'm going to get an orange sharpie and try it again, this one is available as a prototype, same as the rest.

[glazball]

  Nice work Xray.  I wonder if you could post some zoomed out pics?  I'm just very curious to see one on the wall or on a desk or something.  Would help give me and maybe others a frame of reference

[esteban]

I think the Sharpie (yellow) looks pretty damn sweet.

[Xray]

I do too esteban, that vivid paint may actually be a bit too gaudy looking,,, I picked up an orange sharpie today, should have the new & improved model ready later on.

Not a bad idea glazball, I've been doing it like this mostly because I have to hold the laser and take the pic, so an arms length pic has been the only option. I'll see if I can recruit one of my kids or wifey to help later on ,,, They tend to want to stay far away from my projects.

[Xray]

Here is another with both colors done by sharpie, no question that it is superior to paint.
I'd like to do a nice, bright painted one, don't get me wrong ,,, But I see no practical way to do it without it turning out looking like shit.
These would be ideal for those who don't want to edge light them, as they stand out pretty good in just normal light.
Still open to question what they would look like properly edge lit, I'm thinking "jaw dropping" might be a good guess.

2nd shot is for size perspective, resting on the gantry of my machine, a 19.2 v drill in the foreground.

These prototype painted signs are available for $30 shipped USA.
[Getting a little confusing here. Prototype console, pce and bonk are no longer available]

[OldRover]

That's pretty damn impressive.

[8bitForLife]

the pc engine one looks amazing would love to get one for my duo rx but seems like the signs are really small how much larger do you think youll go when your finally completely done designing?

[FiftyQuid]

Is it just me or is the logo not centered in the square?  The "T" in Turbo looks further away from the border than the "O" in Turbo.  Or is that how the logo actually looks?  Damnit... *Fifty heads off to look at his TG paraphernalia for a comparison*.

[EDIT] If you look at the "X" in Grafx it's really in a corner.

[OldRover]

I'd be interested in buying one of these... hit me up a price for a blue one. Do ya take paypal?

[roflmao]

I'm pretty sure all you get is the engraved plexiglass and you have to come up with your own lighting (aside from the most recent round where he's started hand coloring in elements).

[OldRover]

I know, that's fine with me... I'd rather build the rest anyway. Building a lighted box isn't hard, and this would look so bloody awesome in my office.

[mac]

looks amazing ! How do we order one ?

[tpivette]

looks amazing ! How do we order one ?

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=12903.0

[Xray]

Is it just me or is the logo not centered in the square?  The "T" in Turbo looks further away from the border than the "O" in Turbo.  Or is that how the logo actually looks?  Damnit... *Fifty heads off to look at his TG paraphernalia for a comparison*.

[EDIT] If you look at the "X" in Grafx it's really in a corner.

I am not doing the square box line around the logo anymore, they are more problems than they are worth. I went into that in a little detail somewhere in this thread.
These are demos/prototypes, any new ones I cut will not have this line.
Things are getting a little confusing, I apologize. These designs have been through numerous and rapid revisions, and I can't claim 100% perfection in all cases - Though thats exactly what I strive for. This little project came out of the blue and morphed into more than I thought it would, and I appreciate the responses and interest.

PM sent rover.

[Xray]

TG 3D ?
Been playing around with the design of this one ,,, Actually close to being ready to cut, but not sure if there is a point.
Would be a 4-5 hour cut, so would not be feasible to offer them for a "decent" price. I'm thinking this would look soooo sweet cut out of a nice chunk of walnut, or even cedar.

I think what I'll do, if this actually ever advances to the cutting stage, is just cut it out of cheap MDF, which actually holds detail very well ,,, I have these special and expensive paints that  realistically simulate old rusted iron, or aged copper. That would look great, I'll post back if I ever do it.

[Bardoly]

Wow, that looks nice!  I hope3 that you do go ahead and try to make one of these.

[FiftyQuid]

Do it!  Cherry wood would be killer. What kind of price are we talking?  $100?

[Xray]

Let me play with it a bit, for any potential sales yeah I'd almost have to keep it under $100.
I should be able to knock the machining time about in half by sacrificing a little detail and/or using a larger bit ,, But I'm not a big fan of compromises, so we'll see how it goes.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I am going to make one myself for like 30-50$$

Step 1: blow the logo up at Kinkos, make a stencil
Step 2: Paint it onto a sheet of acrylic or something with dayglo paint
step 3: UV keychains

Or you could just use bright ass LED keychains instead.  You can get those things like, 3 for 2$.


Last time I checked, some plexiglass wasn't that expensive, and dayglo paint is dirt cheap.

[OldMan]

Last time I checked, some plexiglass wasn't that expensive

Thin plexi isn't. He's not using that 1/8" stuff, though.

Would be neat to see one with the black-light leds and dayglo colors, though....

[Xray]

I am going to make one myself for like 30-50$$

Step 1: blow the logo up at Kinkos, make a stencil
Step 2: Paint it onto a sheet of acrylic or something with dayglo paint
step 3: UV keychains

Or you could just use bright ass LED keychains instead.  You can get those things like, 3 for 2$.


Last time I checked, some plexiglass wasn't that expensive, and dayglo paint is dirt cheap.

Nothing wrong with stencils, I have been making them since I was a kid, and still do.
I think you are not quite grasping the concept of edge lit signs though. It is the engraved etching which catches the light when the edge is lit, and makes it appear as though the letters are lit. Simply stenciling a pattern to the back won't light a thing, though it may look cool in its own right. It must be etched for the design to be edge lit.
Keep in mind, it would be almost impossible to simply spray paint on a design without having the paint bleed through the edges of the stencil, looking like shit. Also, if you do try this ,,, [And you could likely do it on your PC without having to go to kinkos, especially the way they freak out over any copyrighted logos], make sure to flip the image horizontally, that way it will look right when you look at it from the front.

You'll need something with far more power than a keychain gadget to light these up, unless your design is keychain size [some guys actually do make them that small].

As far as pricing, I'm not saying this shit it worth its weight in gold. It is surprisingly expensive to anyone who has not priced it out.
As stated, 1/2 is not easily available, you might be able to special order it, but chain home improvement stores stock nothing thicker than 1/4 ,,, And that shit is fairly expensive itself.
Here is one of the first results that turned up in a google search of "1/2 plexiglass"
http://www.jmkdisplays.com/sheet.html

I imagine their prices are competitive, else they wouldn't be in business.
1 square foot of 1/8 plexi is $3 - 1 square foot of 1/2 is $13 ... And thats not including the cutting charge, or shipping.

Here is another place
http://setshop.com/photo-backgrounds/plexiglas    $375 for a 4x8 ft sheet of 1/2 plexi, I'm guessing shipping on something this size and weight would be well over $100, probably more like $200.
1 square foot - I couldn't even make 2 8x6's with a chunk that size, just 1. And keep in mind, when the final product is 8x6, the actual piece I use is more like 9x7. You have to allow yourself some slack on all sides when you make any cut, so the blank must be oversized.
With most wood, I can get away with 1/2 oversize on all sides, but thats cutting it very close. For these, I leave an extra inch or more on the height and on the width, to make sure I don't fuck up. Positioning on CNC is itself somewhat of an artform, and takes a while to get good at.
I have botched quite a few pieces and wrecked quite a few expensive router bits trying to conserve material, cutting it too close and running over a hold down screw. Thats just another reason why any old Joe could not do this on the first day, or week even - And thats one reason why people pay other people to do stuff like this.

I have the equipment, material and expertise to crank out a professional looking product at a reasonable price - You don't.