Turbo-list reviews

[VestCunt]

I was bummed out a few years ago when the Turbo-list went down and took all of the game reviews and cheats with it.
Tonight I was mucking around doing some turbo-related searches and found a dude with archives of all the reviews and cheats.

I apologize if this is already common knowledge--I was not aware of this or any other archive.  At any rate, this may be interesting and useful for some of the newer folks.  I remember reading these reviews by BT Garner and others in the late nineties and daydreaming about how awesome Spriggan and Super Darius 2 must be.

wayback.baetzler.de/vidgames/Hu-reviews.var
wayback.baetzler.de/vidgames/CD-reviews.var
wayback.baetzler.de/vidgames/Turbo-cheats.var

[Keranu]

Sweet thanks! I missed these, even though I found a lot of the reviews to be pretty whacked.

[runinruder]

I think it's hilarious that so many games "need a joystick" according to those guys.

By the way, you can find more old TurboList stuff here: http://turbo.mindrec.com/

[PCEngineHell]

After seeing the review for Bloody Wolf I stopped reading them. Bloody Wolf is one of my favorite games for the system and they had the nerve to say it looked like Nes graphics. Reviews like this tend to come from people who cant beat the game they are reviewing or tend to hate that genre of games. That and I always felt the graphics in Alien Crush were much above average,so I disagree with them on that too.

[PCEngineHell]

Oh yea and that BT Garner guy was a fucking retard. He gives the majority of his game reviews B ratings,and the only few games he seems to really like and give a A in the graphics he uses Gate of Thunder or Lords of Thunder as the A+ benchmark comparison. Like Gradius 2 he gives a B+,but Hellfire a A+++. Stupid.

[nat]

Dude, the Turbo List is still around. They just changed servers.

turbo-list@mindrec.com

Maybe

turbo-list-subscribe@mindrec.com

to subscribe? I can't remember.

[M1Savage]

Oh yea and that BT Garner guy was a fucking retard. He gives the majority of his game reviews B ratings,and the only few games he seems to really like and give a A in the graphics he uses Gate of Thunder or Lords of Thunder as the A+ benchmark comparison. Like Gradius 2 he gives a B+,but Hellfire a A+++. Stupid.

  BT Garner is in no way a fucking retard. If you don't agree with his reviews that's fine, but I see no reason to insult a long time contributor to the PC Engine scene.

[PCEngineHell]

Ok,Im sorry but anyone who can willingly say Hellfire has A+++ graphics but Gradius 2 only has B+ has got problems. Don't get me wrong,I love Hellfire,but it is nowhere near better then Gradius 2 graphically. For that matter he said alot of average titles had B-+ graphics,I mean what the hell,its like he has conflicted interest or something and was afraid to say it like it is or give the games a C on some titles. And his comment on Vasteel "A (Beautiful.)". I love Vasteel but I mean,its poorly animated and pretty basic overall graphically,and def deserving of a B,at the most,but def not a A with Beautiful tacked on. And Samurai Ghost,he gives a A+ when the game is easily a B- graphically.Shadow of the Beast he gives  a A+++ for graphics which is just silly.

I love what he says about RayXanber 3 "(Very nice looking, almost in line with Gate of Thunder)". I like Gate of Thunder alot,but last I checked RayXanber 3 visually was better,Gate of Thunder was more along the lines of a B- and isnt the benchmark of shooters. His comment on Monster Lair"A  (beautiful - very detailed)" Completely off. that game is def a B- at the most. he seems to have gotten his grading scale for graphics backwards. As for his hardwork on the Pc-engine scene,I never really heard of him untill today,but if by doing so much for it you mean labeling top tier titles with B graphics and labeling average titles with A+++ graphics then I don't see how he could have helped the scene much.

And I dont know who reviewed China Warrior but they gave it a A-,when the game is ass graphically,big characters or not,its poorly animated and most of the enemies are rocks,twigs,fireballs,and dumb looking monks.



/overall.png

[jlued686]

Nice find!  I subscribe to the Turbo List, but it's awesome to see these old pages again.  Thanks!

[td741]

Keep in mind that these reviews were written probably around when the games became available or at least when the person got their game.  They probably don't go back to their previous reviews and revise them or even play comparable games back to remember why they rated previews reviews as they have. 

For graphics, they also seem to take into account elements of the game's engines such as flicker, slowdown, scaling, parallax scrolling (on top of character animation, cut scenes, variety, etc.)

I would also wager that there might be different expectations based on the game's format (HuCard, CD2.0, SCD, ACD) along with possibly price, availability and expectations.  A highly sought-after game might be put under much more scrutiny then a fun obscure low-budget game title.  Similarly, we might expect less from a HuCard in terms of sound and graphics then an ACD game so a reviewer might be more forgiving and try and compare within the same format.

Seeing as I haven't played RayXander III (I only have RayXander II), I can't comment on what he might have seen that slightly lowered the grade on RayXander III.  Maybe it's the fact that the he preferred the backgrounds in Gates?  Maybe it's because of the faux-scaling in Gates?  Maybe it's the fact that bosses change colour when they get damaged in Gates?  Maybe there is more variety in enemies/stages in Gates?  Maybe it has a better intro... I can only guess?  (Argh, now I've got to look out for RayXander III... anyone have it for sale? ).

As for Monster Lair Vs Gradius II, again it could be background graphics?  Or it could also just be the fact that Monster Lair is a CD2.0 game and looks good compared to other CD 2.0 games.  But Gradius II is an SCD game and has to live up to higher standards.

It also could be the fact that he's had a bad lunch that day.  Honestly, it's only reviews and one person's opinion on a game.  Heck, they aren't even in-depth reviews, they are a paragraph with ratings attached to them.

[GUTS]

Those all remind me of GamePro reviews.  The constant harping about needing a joystick is definitely hilarious, you could tell the reviews were written by a bunch of old pac-man playing codgers.

Looking back I remember the days when those were the only reviews out there though, they were helpful back then (The date on the txt says 1995).

[PCEngineHell]

Ed and Shushi X reviews came to mind here when reading these guys shite reviews,lol yea the joystick thing among the other indifferent things,reminds me how at first EGM reviewers loved FMV games,then year later hated them and how they would give the crappiest games great praise then take something like Art of Fighting 3 and say it wasn't that great and had poor/choppy animation,even though most NeoGeo collectors agree AOF 3 had possibly some of the best animation of a Neo cart.

Yes reviews tend to reflect personal opinion,but there is a point where personal opinions like theirs are terrible or misguided somehow or just biased by fanboyism somewhat leading to unfair grading.

[VestCunt]

Yeah, there's no way of knowing what order these reviews were writtin in.  I think the reviews are decent, but I usually try to find at least three different reviews on any given title I may consider purchasing.  Gamefaqs is a good example of some of the most biased articles I've read on the internet.
Bloody Wolf is also one of my favorite action huca...ahem, TURBOCHIPS  and, although the graphics are better than NES games, I'd say they're only a step or two above the likes of Metal Gear.

[CrackTiger]

After seeing the review for Bloody Wolf I stopped reading them. Bloody Wolf is one of my favorite games for the system and they had the nerve to say it looked like Nes graphics. Reviews like this tend to come from people who cant beat the game they are reviewing or tend to hate that genre of games. That and I always felt the graphics in Alien Crush were much above average,so I disagree with them on that too.

Not only is Bloody Wolf one of my favorite Turbo games, Alien Crush has some of my favorite graphics. Screenshots of AC were one of the motivations for me to get a TG-16 back in the day(when I already had a Genesis).

As for comparing Bloody Wolf to NES graphics, even in the perspective of someone who can't appreciate the style of BW's graphics, at the worst they're very 'next gen' looking compared to Metal Gear or any similar styled NES game. In fact, BW has some of the nicest graphics for the genre on '16-bit' home consoles. Which isn't saying that much, since the genre is full of non-pretty games. But that's part of the appeal, the gritty dark graphics. I think that many people who don't appreciate the graphics haven't played through the entire game.

China Warrior may not be the nicest shaded game or have the best art, but a lot of people base most of their judgment of '16-bit' graphics on technicalities like sprite size, parallax, neato effects, etc and not on how the actual art/graphics look. Many of these guys like to hate on beautiful PC Engine games that don't have seperately scrolling bg's.

Monster Lair looks very nice. If you try to analyze the graphics on a technical level, you'll spoil the game a bit(like I did when it first came, I was looking for something extra special from my Turbo CD and didn't realize just how arcade perfect it was). But anyone who walks into a room and sees it playing would think it looks nice and colorful with some cool 'cute' art. I appreciate this game more and more as years go by.

I agree that using other games as a benchmark isn't the best way to review titles on a game by game basis. But whenever you find a slew of reviews by the same person, you get a feel for their tastes and perspective and and can use that to judge for yourself how much you'd probably enjoy them.

As for his hardwork on the Pc-engine scene,I never really heard of him untill today,but if by doing so much for it you mean labeling top tier titles with B graphics and labeling average titles with A+++ graphics then I don't see how he could have helped the scene much.

Way to show your ignorance - by dissing the guy who's contributed a lot to the PC Engine scene (emulation and non), released two homebrew CD games, and is working on a Contra style game along with a badass blazing lazers/star soldier shooter game   

God I can't wait to try PC Gunjin(is that still the name?). I hope we can at least get some sort of demo/rom sometime soon.

At least we got some screenshots in the meantime. If anyone from Frozen Utopia would like to one up them with some pics from that super secret super awesome game I've been hearing about for quite some time, please feel free.     

[TurboXray]

As for his hardwork on the Pc-engine scene,I never really heard of him untill today,but if by doing so much for it you mean labeling top tier titles with B graphics and labeling average titles with A+++ graphics then I don't see how he could have helped the scene much.

Way to show your ignorance - by dissing the guy who's contributed a lot to the PC Engine scene (emulation and non), released two homebrew CD games, and is working on a Contra style game along with a badass blazing lazers/star soldier shooter game   

[PCEngineHell]

As for his hardwork on the Pc-engine scene,I never really heard of him untill today,but if by doing so much for it you mean labeling top tier titles with B graphics and labeling average titles with A+++ graphics then I don't see how he could have helped the scene much.

Way to show your ignorance - by dissing the guy who's contributed a lot to the PC Engine scene (emulation and non), released two homebrew CD games, and is working on a Contra style game along with a badass blazing lazers/star soldier shooter game   

Look,honestly I don't think hes done as much as you say,and I dont care to suck up here but I perfer the Nantos of the world for what they can do over anyone who can only do ripoffs of Asteroids and puzzle games. As for the emulation work you talk of,Ill reserve my hero worship to those more deserving,the actual people behind Magic Engine,David and Cédric Michel,not some guy who hosted a old website for them.

What perplexes me more is the fact this guy rated all the A+ titles with saying they all have B average graphics,then churns out slightly above Master System quality visuals on his own projects. Now that I know who was behind Mindrecs crappy games I laugh even harder now,thanks goes out to you and m1savage for giving me the desire to look up all that nonsense.

For the seemingly high standards he held for the games he reviewed he doesn't seem to share this on his own stuff in the least bit. Frozen Utopias stuff that is unfinished looks worlds further in quality as it is,and original. And as for Contra clone,does it so far look like Nes or Master System? better yet,is it B- graphics? Does it have slowdown and flicker? Is it as detailed as the lol A+ graphics in Monster Lair? Better looking then Rayxanber 3 and Gradius 2? Last pics I remember seeing of it over a year ago it looked like ass,like Nes kinda. Now looking at updated pics it kinda looks like Midnight Resistance on Genesis. Guess he needs to use his high standards he holds on other games more on his own.

[guyjin]

million(?) dollar companies should be held to higher standards than lone amateurs.

[PCEngineHell]

million(?) dollar companies should be held to higher standards than lone amateurs.

lone amateurs should keep their big mouths shut if they cant hold themselves to the same high standards they hold over the "professionals", otherwise it will come back and bite them in the ass years later.
When I used to do heavy comic collecting,I didn't knock a artist quality unless I honestly knew I could do better. If I'm going to place a high standard on someone like that and talk shit,then I need to be able to hold myself to the same high standard as a artist,and as far as I'm concerned,game making is a art in many ways. And BT Garners way of reviewing graphics was bad obviously.

[TurboXray]

Look,honestly I don't think hes done as much as you say,and I dont care to suck up here but I perfer the Nantos of the world for what they can do over anyone who can only do ripoffs of Asteroids and puzzle games. As for the emulation work you talk of,Ill reserve my hero worship to those more deserving,the actual people behind Magic Engine,David and Cédric Michel,not some guy who hosted a old website for them.

What perplexes me more is the fact this guy rated all the A+ titles with saying they all have B average graphics,then churns out slightly above Master System quality visuals on his own projects. Now that I know who was behind Mindrecs crappy games I laugh even harder now,thanks goes out to you and m1savage for giving me the desire to look up all that nonsense.

For the seemingly high standards he held for the games he reviewed he doesn't seem to share this on his own stuff in the least bit. Frozen Utopias stuff that is unfinished looks worlds further in quality as it is,and original. And as for Contra clone,does it so far look like Nes or Master System? better yet,is it B- graphics? Does it have slowdown and flicker? Is it as detailed as the lol A+ graphics in Monster Lair? Better looking then Rayxanber 3 and Gradius 2? Last pics I remember seeing of it over a year ago it looked like ass,like Nes kinda. Now looking at updated pics it kinda looks like Midnight Resistance on Genesis. Guess he needs to use his high standards he holds on other games more on his own.

....(sigh). Just because he holds his own personal opinions( read: biased) on those games - doesn't make him a retard. By that same logic, you're a retard.  It's been awhile, but from memory I remember quite a few reviews I didn't agree with - but I didn't go off dissing the man and then try to justify it in a later post.

It's funny, you know nothing about coding for the PCE (or in general?) or pixel art and yet you make such judgments against those who make games in their spare time. I'm sure the FrozenUtopia members would probably disagree with you.

Really think it was just "David and Cédric Michel" behind Magic Engines success or even PCE emulation to begin with? There were many people involved: Charles Doty, David Shadoff, Benjamin Quinn , Zeograd, Charles Macdonald ( of Mame fame), and more. Not to mention the other more recent emulator authors who have achieved more accurate emulation than ME.

Way to go - again. It's kind of like you mouth is a magnet to your foot.

[VestCunt]

Way to show your ignorance - by dissing the guy who's contributed a lot to the PC Engine scene (emulation and non), released two homebrew CD games, and is working on a Contra style game along with a badass blazing lazers/star soldier shooter game   

Damn, PC-Gunjin looks frickin' sweet.  I guess I should check the ME forums more often.  Until now I had only seen one lone picture on the Mindrec site a while back.

[PCEngineHell]

Look,honestly I don't think hes done as much as you say,and I dont care to suck up here but I perfer the Nantos of the world for what they can do over anyone who can only do ripoffs of Asteroids and puzzle games. As for the emulation work you talk of,Ill reserve my hero worship to those more deserving,the actual people behind Magic Engine,David and Cédric Michel,not some guy who hosted a old website for them.

What perplexes me more is the fact this guy rated all the A+ titles with saying they all have B average graphics,then churns out slightly above Master System quality visuals on his own projects. Now that I know who was behind Mindrecs crappy games I laugh even harder now,thanks goes out to you and m1savage for giving me the desire to look up all that nonsense.

For the seemingly high standards he held for the games he reviewed he doesn't seem to share this on his own stuff in the least bit. Frozen Utopias stuff that is unfinished looks worlds further in quality as it is,and original. And as for Contra clone,does it so far look like Nes or Master System? better yet,is it B- graphics? Does it have slowdown and flicker? Is it as detailed as the lol A+ graphics in Monster Lair? Better looking then Rayxanber 3 and Gradius 2? Last pics I remember seeing of it over a year ago it looked like ass,like Nes kinda. Now looking at updated pics it kinda looks like Midnight Resistance on Genesis. Guess he needs to use his high standards he holds on other games more on his own.

....(sigh). Just because he holds his own personal opinions( read: biased) on those games - doesn't make him a retard. By that same logic, you're a retard.  It's been awhile, but from memory I remember quite a few reviews I didn't agree with - but I didn't go off dissing the man and then try to justify it in a later post.

It's funny, you know nothing about coding for the PCE (or in general?) or pixel art and yet you make such judgments against those who make games in their spare time. I'm sure the FrozenUtopia members would probably disagree with you.

Really think it was just "David and Cédric Michel" behind Magic Engines success or even PCE emulation to begin with? There were many people involved: Charles Doty, David Shadoff, Benjamin Quinn , Zeograd, Charles Macdonald ( of Mame fame), and more. Not to mention the other more recent emulator authors who have achieved more accurate emulation than ME.

Way to go - again. It's kind of like you mouth is a magnet to your foot.

I think the thing is your giving the guy more credit then he deserves,and I also don't think you should assume to know what some or ALL the Frozen Utopia members think or try to speak on their behalf,thats foolish of you,nor does Bt Garner make or break the community as you have made him out to be in status like hes one of the most important figure heads of some movement.. You remind me of lamasoft worshippers who were on their knees sucking Jeff Minters cock everytime someone spoke against him.

Its a simple fact you don't seem ready to hear that the guy rated these games obviously biased as hell and for all these supposedly high standards others have suggested he held on them he sure doesn't seem to have set the same high standards upon himself and his own software,as they are all unoriginal and lacking in art/graphic quality.

  As for the comment about me not knowing nothing of coding for the PCE,you are correct,I do not,but I have done pixel artwork in the past with friends around 98-2000 who were attending school for graphics artist,and did pixel art projects in their spare time as a hobby,recreating game characters and trying to mimic the animations and so on.

I have no real interest in it "at the moment",because Im a artist by ink,not by mouse and the process of the latter is much too slow for me and what I do I could not express the way Id want to effectively on a computer. This does not mean I wouldn't be willing to try it some more again. This will be  a discussion I might possibly have with Keranu,a Frozen Utopia member and a friend, later in the future. If I could get the hang of it on my own and actually come up with something worth contributing to them Id be all for it,but Like I said,if I'm going to do something like that I would have  a very high standard over myself as to how the quality of what I did would be.

 As for Magic Engine,I only care about who the paypal payment goes to. If others helped,Ill leave it up to David and Cédric Michel to give them credit where credit is due.
Maybe they owe someone some cash payments it sounds like according to you. Maybe you should suggest to them to list all these guys names on the "About" page. http://www.magicengine.com/uk_index.php?sessid=_2ca63i96Vv0JEUoCgbQyAowz0xA

Cause I mean on there I don't see any of your guys mettioned,and you make it sound like Magic Engine wouldn't have happened without them because they are so damn important, even though the main team is listed as David & Cédric Michel. Are you saying David and Cédric Michel are glory hogs taking all the credit then??? Hmmm....

Also,one last thing,since its universally agreed upon here that the majority of off key reviews by Ed,Shushi X,and the other reviewers out there were retarded and guilty of the same thing Bt Garner and others on the Turbo list did,then how come you think its ok if its coming from Bt Garner,and its horrible of me to call the guy a fucking retard for his retarded reviews,but its fine and dandy for me or whoever else to dis all the other dumb assess. Thats a horrible double standard and I'm doubtful if ever in my life I will see you running to Die Hard Game Fans defense of their opinions and views. I don't care if the guy can make  a gazzilion Contra and Astroids clones,hes still a off key retarded dipshit biased goof on his game reviews and nothing changes that.

For that matter I didn't need a joystick to beat any of the games they said needed it. I don't know where that came from out of them as they reviewed these games but jesus,its just stupid silly nonsense.

[CrackTiger]

Also,one last thing,since its universally agreed upon here that the majority of off key reviews by Ed,Shushi X,and the other reviewers out there were retarded and guilty of the same thing Bt Garner and others on the Turbo list did,then how come you think its ok if its coming from Bt Garner,and its horrible of me to call the guy a fucking retard for his retarded reviews,but its fine and dandy for me or whoever else to dis all the other dumb assess. Thats a horrible double standard and I'm doubtful if ever in my life I will see you running to Die Hard Game Fans defense of their opinions and views. I don't care if the guy can make  a gazzilion Contra and Astroids clones,hes still a off key retarded dipshit biased goof on his game reviews and nothing changes that.

For that matter I didn't need a joystick to beat any of the games they said needed it. I don't know where that came from out of them as they reviewed these games but jesus,its just stupid silly nonsense.

The one thing I'll say about people dissing the professional reviewers while letting some hobbyist reviewers slide is that the pros are supposed to be professional, that's what they get paid to for, while the fan reviewers are only doing it for fun and or love of 'gaming'.

[PCEngineHell]

id think after the aftermath of the professional reviewers real gamers who have a real love for games would actually be alot more fair towards games if at all possible,not make biased reviews and stupid coments,and that includes giving China Warrior a A+ for its graphics when we all know it didn't deserve it..

[TurboXray]

I think the thing is your giving the guy more credit then he deserves

And what additional credit would that be?

I also don't think you should assume to know what some or ALL the Frozen Utopia members think or try to speak on their behalf

I wasn't speaking on there behalf. It was more of a hint. You know, maybe some of the members actually know and work with Mindrec members? Ask them if you want, though.

nor does Bt Garner make or break the community as you have made him out to be in status like hes one of the most important figure heads of some movement..

I think you're "reading into things". I merely conveyed the he contributes to the PCE community and scene, provided proof and that you were ignorant of it.

Its a simple fact you don't seem ready to hear that the guy rated these games obviously biased as hell and for all these supposedly high standards others have suggested he held on them he sure doesn't seem to have set the same high standards upon himself and his own software,as they are all unoriginal and lacking in art/graphic quality.

That's great. Don't play them when they come out. Remember, you've got a Neo-Geo. So no worries.

As for the comment about me not knowing nothing of coding for the PCE,you are correct,I do not,but I have done pixel artwork in the past with friends around 98-2000 who were attending school for graphics artist,and did pixel art projects in their spare time as a hobby,recreating game characters and trying to mimic the animations and so on.

I have no real interest in it "at the moment",because Im a artist by ink,not by mouse and the process of the latter is much too slow for me and what I do I could not express the way Id want to effectively on a computer. This does not mean I wouldn't be willing to try it some more again. This will be  a discussion I might possibly have with Keranu,a Frozen Utopia member and a friend, later in the future. If I could get the hang of it on my own and actually come up with something worth contributing to them Id be all for it,but Like I said,if I'm going to do something like that I would have  a very high standard over myself as to how the quality of what I did would be.

That's cool that you've done some pixel art. There's still a demand for pixels artists. You figure that being an artists though, you'd appreciate the effort and work it takes to get a project done - respect for another artists regardless if you care for their style or not. But, to each their own. Btw, BT's not the pixel artist for those projects.

As for Magic Engine,I only care about who the paypal payment goes to. If others helped,Ill leave it up to David and Cédric Michel to give them credit where credit is due.
Maybe they owe someone some cash payments it sounds like according to you. Maybe you should suggest to them to list all these guys names on the "About" page. http://www.magicengine.com/uk_index.php?sessid=_2ca63i96Vv0JEUoCgbQyAowz0xA

Well, I was referring to the turbo hack list were information was discovered and shared openly in the in the PCE programming/emulation community. But I guess you don't knowing about that.  David coded the emulator himself so he has a right to charge and keep the profit.

Cause I mean on there I don't see any of your guys mettioned,and you make it sound like Magic Engine wouldn't have happened without them because they are so damn important, even though the main team is listed as David & Cédric Michel. Are you saying David and Cédric Michel are glory hogs taking all the credit then??? Hmmm....

See above.

Also,one last thing,since its universally agreed upon here that the majority of off key reviews by Ed,Shushi X,and the other reviewers out there were retarded and guilty of the same thing Bt Garner and others on the Turbo list did,then how come you think its ok if its coming from Bt Garner,and its horrible of me to call the guy a fucking retard for his retarded reviews,but its fine and dandy for me or whoever else to dis all the other dumb assess. Thats a horrible double standard and I'm doubtful if ever in my life I will see you running to Die Hard Game Fans defense of their opinions and views. I don't care if the guy can make  a gazzilion Contra and Astroids clones,hes still a off key retarded dipshit biased goof on his game reviews and nothing changes that.

I think CrackTiger summed that up pretty.

It's funny you think I agree with all those reviews. I don't. I have my own opinions. I just don't think he deserves to be called something to the effect of "off key retarded dipshit biased goof" and merely pointed out that he's not just "some guy".

[PCEngineHell]

You make it out like that he's not just "some guy" justifies bad reviews and because hes special people cant talk about him and make comments on his obvious bad judgement call on his reviews. Screw that,I call it like I see it,his reviews suck. Case closed.

[FraGMarE]

I find this all quite amusing.  NES graphics on PC-Gunjin???  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[PCEngineHell]

I find this all quite amusing.  NES graphics on PC-Gunjin???  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally yea,I upgraded it to Midnight Resistance.

[FraGMarE]

I suppose this looks like Zanac, then?  ;)





Everyone is entitled to their own opinions about how something looks.  It's subjective, not objective.  It is simply the nature of the beast.  If you disagree about opinions that someone had about how they perceived something 10+ years ago, that is fine. By all means voice your own opinion... but please don't make a federal case out of it and then resort to petty namecalling.  It makes you seem very troll-like.  Just some advice for future posts.

[PCEngineHell]

Yea,troll like coming from someone who just joined to comment to me and hopefully start shit,lol reminds me of the moose and the worm.

I'm finding it strikingly odd how noobs are appearing as of past couple of days and seeming to dictate how the threads and peoples post here should be done/run,then running off to never be heard from again. I thought this qualifies more as trolling.

[PCEngineHell]

I suppose this looks like Zanac, then?  ;)

Yea Zanac mixed with Raiden and whatever else you plan to copy

After all last I remember ripple and laser belonged to Gradius and Salamander. Im sure you can verify this as BT Garner probably knows all about both games

[FraGMarE]

Yea,troll like coming from someone who just joined to comment to me and hopefully start shit,lol reminds me of the moose and the worm.

I'm finding it strikingly odd how noobs are appearing as of past couple of days and seeming to dictate how the threads and peoples post here should be done/run,then running off to never be heard from again. I thought this qualifies more as trolling.

Actually, I was directed here by another forum member who alerted me to your troglodytic antics.  Again I find it all quite amusing.  There's a reason PC-Engine developers tend to avoid these forums.  It's because people like you make these forums the gamefaqs.com of the PC-Engine world.  I usually avoid trifling little pissing contests such as you seem to have stirred up here, but i felt it was so hilarious that i could not resist.  Like I said before, everyone is entitled to their opinions.  However, your opinions are certainly in the minority here, and it must be screamingly apparent to you by now.  I'm just trying to somehow make you understand that with each ranting, blithering, grammar error laden post you make, you further cement your position in the minds of the other legitimate forum goers here as a complete fool.  Not name calling, just trying to make you aware of what you're doing to yourself.

I suppose this looks like Zanac, then?  ;)

Yea Zanac mixed with Raiden and whatever else you plan to copy

After all last I remember ripple and laser belonged to Gradius and Salamander. Im sure you can verify this as BT Garner probably knows all about both games

Hey, if I'm successfully emulating the graphical styles of games like Raiden, Gradius, and Salamander, that means I'm doing things right.  ;)

[rolins]

I suppose this looks like Zanac, then?  ;)

I haven't been around in while, I'm way too tired to read. I just skim thru the this thread, Mike taking decade old reviews personal and they were biased and off the mark. Blah blah blah... Who cares. Bloody Wolf can only be outdone by Ikari Warriors.

Fragmare, where can I find this game btw? is this on the pce?

-

[PCEngineHell]

Actually, I was directed here by another forum member who alerted me to your troglodytic antics.

Who,Seldane the worm or....

It's because people like you make these forums the gamefaqs.com of the PC-Engine world.  I usually avoid trifling little pissing contests such as you seem to have stirred up here, but I felt it was so hilarious that I could not resist.

Actually I was thinking Frozen Utopias stuff is looking better and far more original then Mindrecs. I have yet to see them list Kangaroo clones on their up and coming titles list.

However, your opinions are certainly in the minority here

By keranu
I found a lot of the reviews to be pretty whacked
By runinruder
I think it's hilarious that so many games "need a joystick" according to those guys.
By gutts
Those all remind me of GamePro reviews.  The constant harping about needing a joystick is definitely hilarious, you could tell the reviews were written by a bunch of old pac-man playing codgers.

Also,as far as your clones go last I remember Gutts and  a few other members didn't like them. This was discussed a year ago or more on here. Maybe you shouldnt be so quick to assume you know how all the other members here think or feel. And I thought you said
 

There's a reason PC-Engine developers tend to avoid these forums.  It's because people like you make these forums the gamefaqs.com of the PC-Engine world.

but then you say I'm the minority. If I was the minority then you'd come around more Id think,so which is it?

Also,I said your game looked like it was copying Raiden,and the laser and ripple from Konami games, I didn't say it was doing it well however. That remains to be seen untill the game is in motion.

[FraGMarE]

I suppose this looks like Zanac, then?  ;)

I haven't been around in while, I'm way too tired to read. I just skim thru the this thread, Mike taking decade old reviews personal and they were biased and off the mark. Blah blah blah... Who cares. Bloody Wolf can only be outdone by Ikari Warriors.

Fragmare, where can I find this game btw? is this on the pce?

-

It's Xymati, the PC-Engine vertical shooter currently being developed by MindRec alongside PC-Gunjin.  As our good friend Mikey ever so eloquently pointed out, it clearly draws inspiration from old shooters like Raiden, Star Soldier series, Blazing Lazers, Vapor Trail and even the DonPachi series.

There's a reason PC-Engine developers tend to avoid these forums.  It's because people like you make these forums the gamefaqs.com of the PC-Engine world.

but then you say I'm the minority. If I was the minority then you'd come around more Id think,so which is it?

Also,I said your game looked like it was copying Raiden,and the laser and ripple from Konami games, I didn't say it was doing it well however. That remains to be seen untill the game is in motion.

I stand by my previous statement. 

[VestCunt]

Whoa!  Discussion on this board is like, getting totally aggro!  It's, like, harshin' on my mellow.  I was just like, off smokin some FATTY J's  and when I came back all my bras were like, slingin' mud an acting like The Man and stuff and then I stepped into this cave with worms and trolls but then I realized I was frickin hallucinating and TRIPPIN' BALLS!  How cool is that!

If I was the minority then you'd come around more Id think,so which is it?

I believe fragmare is an old member of the community with a new handle.

Fragmare--your work is great, keep it up.

[rolins]

@Fragmare

I look forward to playing both Xymati and PC-Gunjin. They really do look awesome.
Any chance of releasing a demo or gameplay video?

[CrackTiger]

Wow, those Xymati screenshots look a lot better than the few early outerspace ones I before.

I'm now more interested in that than PC-Gunjin. 

[PCEngineHell]

In the future,if we have such advanced technology I sure hope we will still have cars,driveways,and possibly roads to use the cars on still to get to these houses out in the middle of nowhere. Friendly advice you probably wont take,the landscape needs more detail,esp if your goal is to copy the detailed glory that is Raiden.

[FraGMarE]

@Fragmare

I look forward to playing both Xymati and PC-Gunjin. They really do look awesome.
Any chance of releasing a demo or gameplay video?

Yes.  Both games will have a one level demo released prior to their actual release.  The demo will be in standard .PCE ROM format.

In the future,if we have such advanced technology I sure hope we will still have cars,driveways,and possibly roads to use the cars on still to get to these houses out in the middle of nowhere. Friendly advice you probably wont take,the landscape needs more detail,esp if your goal is to copy the detailed glory that is Raiden.

There exists a concept in life called W.I.P.  It stands for Work In Progress.  This game is a work in progress.  There will indeed be roads and cars in the final version of this level.  In fact, there will be an entire city preceeding this countryside with numerous roads, cars, buildings, parking lots, sidewalks, billboards, malls, etc.  I'm currently in the process of finishing up background tiles for this level.  BTW, I don't remember seeing driveways in Raiden.  Also, why do you continue to fish for an argument?  Is there something psychologically wrong with you that you feel you have to try to debunk or negatively respond to anyone who has confronted you in any way?  A very sad state of affairs...

[jlued686]

I would agree with Fragmare.  Helgeson, you're by far the most confrontational antagonist on these forums.  Over the past year or more, I've seen you pick fights with people, cop a serious attitude, and resort to personal attacks.  I know that statement is going to inspire an aggressive response from you, but I would suggest calming down, taking a deep breath, and trying to remember that we're just talking about Turbo games here.  Relax.

[NecroPhile]

If BT doesn't deserve some credit for running MindRec, I don't know who does.  A few odd reviews surely aren't a reason to brand somebody as worthless.  BT currently enjoys the distinction of being the only producer of commercial releases after the death of the Turbo (hopefully to be soon joined by Frozen Utopia); that certainly deserves some accolades. 

@ Fragmare - Xymati is looking pretty good.  Has Mindrec had any luck finding somebody running an old version of Eclipse for glass mastering?  Maybe they will add the functionality back in just for us Turbo fans (and maybe I'll win the lottery). 

[PCEngineHell]

Yours isn't the first shooter to have houses out in the middle of no where. I just hate seeing it when its something a little more effort can fix,and if your serious about being close to or surpassing Raiden you def will. Raiden tends to have things going on all over the place,and you can do some destruction to the landscape. I hold that game in very high regards because its very well rounded off verticle shooter.

I tend to stay reserved untill I see final projects finished,as I said before,in motion. As for the Contra clone,it looks worlds better then when I first saw pics of it. The first pics I saw did make it look like Nes,with more colors,now by looking at the new pics its up there looking as good as Midnight Resistance,you know,the arcade game? If you felt that was insulting I'm sorry,last I checked Midnight Resistance looked pretty good.

As for the fighting that goes both ways,the guys first post starts with insults. I am only responding to anything he says.

[esteban]

I would agree with Fragmare.  Helgeson, you're by far the most confrontational antagonist on these forums.  Over the past year or more, I've seen you pick fights with people, cop a serious attitude, and resort to personal attacks.  I know that statement is going to inspire an aggressive response from you, but I would suggest calming down, taking a deep breath, and trying to remember that we're just talking about Turbo games here.  Relax.

I just read this thread and all I can say is that Mr. Helgeson has a hair-trigger temper. As you folks may recall, a new member to the forums created a thread to say "hi folks" and Mr. Helgeson, in a paranoid fit, accused the newcomer of being his arch-nemesis: none other than D-Lite himself! Insanity.

When Mr. Helgeson himself first joined these board, he insulted the entire board when he attacked opponents with racial / ethnic slurs.

Mike, I'm not trying to fight with you, but seriously, don't take everything so personally and certainly don't attack folks with such venom. I'm sure you're still going to hate a lot of things and a lot of people, but I suggest you find a creative way to do it (I suggest you print out the avatars of the folks you dislike and burn their effigies in a bonfire).

Peace, love and harmony.

[PCEngineHell]

I just read this thread and all I can say is that Mr. Helgeson has a hair-trigger temper. As you folks may recall, a new member to the forums created a thread to say "hi folks" and Mr. Helgeson, in a paranoid fit, accused the newcomer of being his arch-nemesis: none other than D-Lite himself! Insanity.

When Mr. Helgeson himself first joined these board, he insulted the entire board when he attacked opponents with racial / ethnic slurs.

Mike, I'm not trying to fight with you, but seriously, don't take everything so personally and certainly don't attack folks with such venom. I'm sure you're still going to hate a lot of things and a lot of people, but I suggest you find a creative way to do it (I suggest you print out the avatars of the folks you dislike and burn their effigies in a bonfire).

Peace, love and harmony.

Steve,going back over my first 100 post,I found nothing about racial/ethnic slurs. Just because I come from Arkansas doesn't mean I'm a member of the Klan. I don't even think the Klan still exist outside of  a few narrow minded fools in deep country somewhere. I wasn't raised to be like that,nor do I approve of it. I mean,the only thing I can slightly think your confused with is how I commented on people coming from South America and Puerto Rico,share holders,to Wal-Marts convention to buy shit they don't need or can't really use,only buying the stuff because it was "cheap".
 
This statement,while mean spirited,was based upon fact. Share holders WERE coming from these areas and spending money on items they wouldn't need,and yes,their english was broken badly. This was stated in fact,I did not make this up. This is from 4 years experience in witnessing the shareholders conventions Wal-mart holds in Fayetteville. It was getting so bad that heads up and Wal-Mart were toying with the idea of tossing the spanish speaking employees up to the front of the store to translate questions being asked so the cashiers would know what was being said. When I refer to people from South America and Puerto Rico, I believe last I checked South America and Puerto Rico were not a race. Last I checked people from many different ethnic backgrounds live in these areas,and as in the case of Puerto Rico,I am thinking spanish is the major spoken language but there are people from many different racial backgrounds living there.

This is like saying someone who trashes France for "supposedly" having snooty citizens is a racist.
This happens all the time in tv and movies and people seem fine with it even though its a huge lame stereo type. Its not racist,its just stupid.


I believe all this was in response to Nodtveidt saying Puerto Rico wasn't a poor area or something and that Wal-Mart cared about people or some nonsense... I mean,its a pretty well known fact, Puerto Rico is U.S. territory with Commonwealth status. It is a very poor area.

Puerto Ricans had a per capita Gross Domestic Product (GDP) estimate of $17,700 for 2004, which demonstrates a growth over the $14,412 level measured in the 2002 Current Population Survey by the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund. In that survey, Puerto Ricans have a 48.2% poverty rate. By comparison, the poorest State of the Union, Mississippi, had a median level of $21,587, according to the U.S. Census Bureau's Current Population Survey, 2002 to 2004 Annual Social and Economic Supplements. Since 1952, the gap between Puerto Rico's per capita income and U.S. national levels has essentially remained unchanged — one third the U.S. national average and roughly half that of the poorest state. Nevertheless Puerto Rico remains the most developed nation in Latin America based on data of the CIA Worldfact book.

On May 1, 2006, the Puerto Rican government faced significant shortages in cash flows, which forced the closure of the local Department of Education and 42 other government agencies. All 1,536 public schools closed, and 95,762 people were furloughed in the first-ever partial shutdown of the government in the island's history. On May 10, 2006, the budget crisis was resolved with a new tax reform agreement, with plans to apply a temporary 1% tax input so that all government employees could return to work. On November 15, 2006 a 5.5% sales tax was implemented. Municipalities have the option of applying a municipal sales tax of 1.5% bringing the total sales tax to 7%.

This is why I came to Nodtveidts defense when Gutts didnt believe that PS3s could still be sitting on the store shelves there. People there are going to be more worried about food,rent,utilities then PS3.
My understanding was that tourism was the main economy in Puerto Rico,and while this might be a overstatement,I am going to assume if you take this away this island would be crushed economically . Not unless they have cocaine fields hidden about everywhere like in Colombia and crack cocaine gets legalized somehow....

What I stated,was fact,and has a solid foundation. Stating facts doesn't mean I made racist comments. Stating Puerto Rico is like  a third world country ,while being over exaggerated, isn't even considered racial / ethnic slurs because it IS a poor area.

I mean,I've seen Gutts use the term spic once or twice,but for the most part I think the threads are void of any real racism,esp from me. Yes I can be very blunt,crass,some times asshole'ish,but never racist.

Also, the a paranoid fit your referring to,was sarcasm and intended as a jibe to the missing in action member. Possibly a new concept to you,but it was pretty obvious from the Robocop references in the post and what not. At the time I made that post Keranu and I were talking about what possibly happened to cause Dean to fall of the face of the earth. I think some threads were found of Dean whining about his woes or something. Between that,I had heard he was doing other things with peoples money and wasn't sending them their items. Anyway I'm not going into all the details of it,its all pretty pointless.

Plus more often then not,yea I do say whats on my mind,and I do not hold back,and I can be crushingly mean,rude,nit picky ect ect. But you know what,I'm a individual,and if nothing else when at all possible I'd rather challenge the masses then conform, because just because the mass majority can all agree on something doesn't make them all right every time.

Plus I'm not the only asshole here,I believe Ive been outranked by Gutts on the asshole meter countless times I've been informed by others. But hey,I think more often then not,hes just saying what he thinks,and he has a right to do so,just like anyone else,asshole or not. I like that because it easily shows he was of the "Sega Generation" as was I.

[GUTS]

Yeah I definitely outrank you on the asshole list, but I'm more focused, I tend to only rile packs of snerds and the occasional normal less-retarded retard.  You have a broader shotgun approach and are liable to get nuts about any subject.

[PCEngineHell]

Remember I use broken bottles too.

[esteban]

Mike, I probably should not have dredged up the past, since it might lead to more disputes, but you did in fact make  personal attacks against several members, and a handful of your comments used race/ethnicity in a derogatory manner.

In spite of this, I was one of the few folks who encouraged you to stay because I thought you did have some interesting things to say about the games we play.

On that note, I enjoyed your recent posts with all of the screenshot comparisons. I'm honestly not trying to start a fight or defame you. All I'm saying is give peace a chance.

[PCEngineHell]

Hey,I don't think your trying to start anything Steve,I just think you may be wrong. I went back and checked past post,the vast majority of them,I mean,I couldn't find anything about what you say I did. I didn't find anything about anyone encouraging me to stay either,then again I never said I was leaving these forums so Im not sure where that came from exactly.

Like I said,the only thing I could find maybe related to what your talking about is the Puerto Rico thing,which a few  people got pissed at what I said about that and accused that of being racist,but like I said,dissing a island or being mean or pissed about someone buying stupid shit or speaking english poorly isn't being a racist. That and it was terribly naive of the people who got offended to assume I was speaking of people of just hispanic or latin origin.

People like this I feel are more racist then anything (not purposefully),because when they hear the words "South America" and "Puerto Rico" all they picture is people of hispanic or native american origin. They forget that people of many different races,white,black,and asian included all migrated to these areas,esp way back in the 1800-1900s. Kinda like with the migration of white people from France and England to EndoChina back when Endochina was a union. Not everyone in EndoChina is or was asian. People tend to picture someone who is puertorican as being hispanic,which is silly,because it doesn't matter what "race" you are,if your native birth land is Puerto Rico,your puertorican,just as you could be black or of asian decent and be born in Germany,thus being german/german citizen.

I like how Maddox addressed a issue like this here:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=your_stupid_ideas

read near the top of the page.

I also know people may have made the stupid assumption that because I'm from Arkansas I'm a under educated racist hick drop out who relishes in the lynchings of yee ole olden days. People tend to think this because white people in the south,esp from Arkansas, are not  portrayed well in a positive manner at all. This is understandable,and yes,racism still occurs here WAY WAY FAR outside the major cities,but it also occurs in the north,east,and west equally well if not worse in rich majority white neighborhoods.

Infact,we are more known for our vicious gangs made up of white,black,hispanic,and asians then our crappy redneck racist who lives out in the middle of nowhere. Some of our gangs tend to make gangs in California and NY look like boy scouts. I guess alot of you may have been too young for Gang War: Bangin' in Little Rock.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0272104/
http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/gangwars.php

When Gutts said I was a dirty fighter jokingly on that other thread,little did he know I grew up in Little Rock/North Little Rock in this time period. Most of my friends were Bloods or Crips or Folk,and I've been in plenty of street fights.
I never bothered to join a gang,and about everyone I knew didn't care to try to get me to join because I spent most of my time skateboarding or whatever else. People tended to think these gangs were always trying to recruit people by pressure or force or something,but I never saw that occur,nor did any of my friends who were Bloods get pissed for me having Crip friends and vice versa.

As I said,Arkansas isn't really a racist filled state,its more or less a crime ridden state known for gangs and drug traficking. People who assume it is are stupid or naive,or have never had to pass trough Rose City,Little Rock,or North Little Rock. People who assume I'm a racist because I'm from Arkansas,the same rules apply to you too.

Steve if you can pinpoint the racial slurs I was supposed to have made then I will more then happily remove them and state as to why the past post was modified so far down the road,but as I said,I didn't find anything of the such.

[GUTS]

Wow I was just reading that Loose Change shit on maddox's site, good God anyone who believes that stuff is a complete and utter FUCKTARDED retard.  I can't believe there are actually people so fucking stupid out there that they believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, holy hell.  They should round all those conspiracy theory people up and gas them like they deserver, FUCK I hate them so much.

[PCEngineHell]

Yea I thought that little Loose Change project was laughable but you just can't take it very serious at all.
No real solid evidence offered,just speculation.