Md 68k and hu6280 comparison

[PunkCryborg]

Fucking dick.  I hate censorship, but please Tom don't cease this thread, it's easily the best current thread here.  If Aaron can/wants to delete him and his threads, it's a necessary evil.

lol i doubt aaron has even looked at this site in months

I didnt follow much of the tech heavy stuff at first but am dissapointed this clown had to ruin a thread that could help people interested in working on these systems.
Maybe a general opinion md vs pce thread would be better suited for this kind of argument evilevo is going for.

[OldRover]

See this is what I'm talking about, semantics.  You just admitted the MD68k can handle more sprites and I've been shouting it from the rooftops yet you still call me an idiot.

Just because it handles more sprite blocks doesn't mean it handles more sprites. Look, moron...

MD: 80 sprites at 32x32 = 16 cells * 80 sprite blocks = 1280 cells max
PCE: 64 sprites at 32x64 = 32 cells * 64 sprite blocks = 2048 cells max

Yes... you're an idiot if you don't get this.

[PCEngineHell]

I like the part where he started crying about data size and data storage ( games on cd-rom) being the big advantage for the PCE saying its not fair to bring that stuff up, opting for ignorance concerning the fact that regardless of the data storage method, its still the HuC6280A + HuC6260 + HuC6270A doing the actual work, presenting the end results on screen, all of which are found in the core of the system, not the cd drive. Other then that, everything else he posted was laughable or ignorant, take your pick.

edit: I owned and played Altered Beast Cd a lot a few years back. I even submitted a video of it on youtube capped off real hardware (I still have the video if anyone wants me to resubmit it). The soundtrack for the game actually sounds pretty good, and visually the game is easily better looking and a better arcade port then the Genesis port. There is nothing wrong with the speed of the game or how it moves on PCE, it feels like the arcade game. Unless you suddenly bought a System 1.0 card Evo, I don't even see how you could have played it on the Duo-R I sold you, since I did not include one with it.

[spenoza]

Tom, Touko, others, I've really enjoyed the technical stuff. We can all put Evo on ignore and then we can see the text that matters.

I love these programming discussions.

[EvilEvoIX]

Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #150 on: Today at 03:25:37 PM »
Quote
Quote from: soop on Today at 03:16:44 PM
Fucking dick.  I hate censorship, but please Tom don't cease this thread, it's easily the best current thread here.  If Aaron can/wants to delete him and his threads, it's a necessary evil.
lol i doubt aaron has even looked at this site in months

I didnt follow much of the tech heavy stuff at first but am dissapointed this clown had to ruin a thread that could help people interested in working on these systems.
Maybe a general opinion md vs pce thread would be better suited for this kind of argument evilevo is going for.

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The Old Rover
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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #151 on: Today at 03:28:16 PM »
Quote
Quote from: EvilEvoIX on Today at 02:37:19 PM
See this is what I'm talking about, semantics.  You just admitted the MD68k can handle more sprites and I've been shouting it from the rooftops yet you still call me an idiot.
Just because it handles more sprite blocks doesn't mean it handles more sprites. Look, moron...

MD: 80 sprites at 32x32 = 16 cells * 80 sprite blocks = 1280 cells max
PCE: 64 sprites at 32x64 = 32 cells * 64 sprite blocks = 2048 cells max

Yes... you're an idiot if you don't get this.
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PCEngineHell
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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #152 on: Today at 04:04:45 PM »
Quote
I like the part where he started crying about data size and data storage ( games on cd-rom) being the big advantage for the PCE saying its not fair to bring that stuff up, opting for ignorance concerning the fact that regardless of the data storage method, its still the HuC6280A + HuC6260 + HuC6270A doing the actual work, presenting the end results on screen, all of which are found in the core of the system, not the cd drive. Other then that, everything else he posted was laughable or ignorant, take your pick.

edit: I owned and played Altered Beast Cd a lot a few years back. I even submitted a video of it on youtube capped off real hardware (I still have the video if anyone wants me to resubmit it). The soundtrack for the game actually sounds pretty good, and visually the game is easily better looking and a better arcade port then the Genesis port. There is nothing wrong with the speed of the game or how it moves on PCE, it feels like the arcade game. Unless you suddenly bought a System 1.0 card Evo, I don't even see how you could have played it on the Duo-R I sold you, since I did not include one with it.
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spenoza
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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #153 on: Today at 04:28:23 PM »
Quote
Tom, Touko, others, I've really enjoyed the technical stuff. We can all put Evo on ignore and then we can see the text that matters.

I love these programming discussions.
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My meager PC Engine Collection so far.

Quote from: Tatsujin on January 22, 2008, 08:58:57 AM
it allows you to play the uber awesome sapphire! it's made of pure unbelivable magic! respect is due!

So once again, even though you own all of the isos and have played all of the games, you are still completely clueless about another game library. FMV games are a tiny minority of the Sega/Mega-CD library and the hardware was pushed to amazing levels, as was the CD format.




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I had the privilege of growing up with a programmer/engineer.

Did this person give you the impression that all programmers sit at a keyboard with their dick in their hand?





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  While this is true to an extent Sapphire is a great game let's take a close look at it.


First of all in order to play this thing you needed the following while in Japan:

A PC Engine
A CD Rom attachment that then came with the Bios Revision #1
You later purchased Bios revision 2 for CD+G
You later purchased System Card 3.0 to add support for Super CD games
You finally had to purchase an Arcade card to play Sapphire.
You had to purchase Sapphire.

In the states you needed to have the arcade card and a converter and a CD ROM then order the game.  God forbid you call ANY of those upgrades or you will be bashed and burned at the stake so all of the above are NOT upgrades, not at all.






If the MD68K is so powerful, then why is it that in order to play a cart game, you needed the following in Japan:

A Mega Drive
A Mark III Sega Mega Adaptor
A Mega Modem
A Mega-CD
A Super 32X
An Action Replay
A Mega Key
A copy of Sonic & Knuckles
A cleaning kit cart
A copy of the game





God forbid you call ANY of those upgrades or you will be bashed and burned at the stake so all of the above are NOT upgrades, not at all.





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Now let's look at the game and how it plays.

That's a single player playthrough on EASY difficulty genius. Play through the game with 2 players at once on the hardest difficulty to judge what the game and hardware really do.




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I don't think anyone really argues that the PCE sound chip didn't provide the best sound FX

You are demonstrating once again that you ignore the internet in general, as well as the forum discussion you "participate" in. Many people dislike PCE sound, although they tend to be people who have heard much of it. Still, many more people appreciate it, even on Sega-16. More people in the world think that the Genesis/Mega Drive has terrible sound than do not. They may be biased Nintendo fans, but you are the one using popular opinion as a measure of proof.



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First thing you notice is the colors and the MD68K could never hope to have any of this.

The MD68K is a cpu and not a VDP, so your statement is true. But what you really mean, as you've been saying all along, is that the Mega Drive couldn't do any of it. But you're wrong, the Mega Drive could do much of the color/detail/shading, including some entire scenes as-is. It just can't do all of it.



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Obvious lack of parallax but that is to be expected as the PCE chose color over multi-scrolling backgrounds.

It is to be expected that a vertical shooter will not necessarily feature much parallax, as they tend to not feature nearly as much as in horizontal shooters, regardless of the hardware being used. Still, Sapphire does have multi-scrolling backgrounds and I can't think of any part of the game where it looks like an extra layer of scrolling should have appeared.



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There is nothing going on that the MD68K can't handle in except color.  The MD68K can handle more detailed sprites on screen and larger at that.  It's just what the hardware did.

There is more in-game (non-fmv) animation happening than any Mega Drive/Genesis ever did. I don't believe that the MD couldn't do something similar in terms of animation, but you have argued all along that because it didn't happen, the MD can't do it and therefore the PCE is far superior at animation in general.

I don't think you understand the definition of detail, but again, Sapphire tosses around as many sprites across the screen as any MD game ever has. But again, "larger" sprites is a strength of PCE games. MD and SNES games usually use a tile layer for large enemies, while the PCE usually uses massive sprites, comparable to the arcade games that Game Fan went on and on about (Juggernaut, Lucifeller, etc). If you stop lying and actually start playing all of those roms and isos, you'll soon notice than large sprites are a trademark of PCE games more so than MD or SNES games. If you look at the MD and PCE games with the most sprites on screen at a time, they look more or less the same. It's only the SNES that lacks games with that level of screen-filling sprites.



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That's why you never saw a game as capable with as large of bosses and the speed they had in games such as Alien Soldier or Gunstar Heroes without cuts in multi scrolling backgrounds.

You've brought up Alien Soldier again as proof of the MD68K superiority. But if you've witnessed the game on real hardware, you'd notice the regular slowdown. That's why it's a favorite demonstration of Genesis overclockers, who attempt to bump up that superior MD68K cpu to try to minimize the slowdown. There are many MD and PCE games with a comparable amount of action happening, where you'll see more slowdown in MD games.

Alien Soldier is another Treasure game with a bunch of neat effects, but they're usually a showcase for the overall MD hardware, not the cpu. They're designed around the system's weaknesses as much as its strengths. Just like top quality PCE and SNES games. A top quality game designed around one hardware won't turn out as good if an exact port is attempted. But working around the target hardware's strengths and weaknesses will result in something also great, only somewhat different.

The MD can't do Sapphire as-is, but it could do a cool version of it. Same goes with any 2D MD game ported to PCE.



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I hate to bring out this game but everyone points to it.  What is happening that can't happen on the MD68K?  Right out of the gate the sound FX would be better, you could through more sprites at it or move the bosses or sub bosses faster.

Again, I'll assume that by "MD68K" you really mean "Mega Drive". Maybe you should start playing more of your Mega Drive roms and pay attention to intense games and see how well the MD handles stuff like (or the closest it has to) Sapphire. Pause the game during the slowdown in stage one of Ranger X and look at how much is onscreen at the time. Compare that to the busiest parts of Sapphire in 2 player mode on the hardest difficulty.

The MD and PCE can do a comparable amount of action that sets them apart from the SNES. The MD can do more with background layering and some unique special effects and the PCE can do more in terms of actual graphic quality (shading/detail/color). Most experts seem to agree that the PCE hardware is better at animation, but they're still comparable. There is no "smashing victory" in terms of processing power when it comes to regular 16-bit games (2D stuff). The MD is probably the best at polygons, but still can't do much and from what I've read, the advantage is more than cpu based. The SNES can still do things that the 32X and Sega-CD can't and its average 2D games are still impressive overall for the time. You don't need crazy action all the time for every type of game. Overall, the MD, PCE and SNES produced comparable games, that's why they're all the same class and the PCE isn't "straddling the 8 - 16-bit barrier". If it was, then games like Sapphire only pull the MD and SNES down to sub-16-bit levels.


I'm sorry am I supposed to read all that?  I saw the fan boi genesis stacker series of hardware and its cute.  It's also cute to compare cd storage of animation to cart storage, really is an apples to apples example.  Did you even sit down and play altered beast for the PCE vs the MD!  Are you sure you want to make that argument?  Should I say that that MD68k is faster and moves more sprites faster and alien soldier could not be done on the PCE yet the MD could handle Sapphire without arcade card upgrades and add a multiple scrolling background to give some visual if depth?  Yes PCE CD games rule I'm playing one now.  Get over the sprite limit and move on.
Also I already stated that the PCE cd rom to me is better.  I have a stack of sega cd games that just collect dust and I've been running through most of my PCE cd games burned or otherwise.  Beats the shit outa emulators.  Sega cd just had a lot of clunkers IMHO.   No real graphical upgrades except cd sound.  Batman retuns I liked the driving and even cliff hanger the snow bonding.  I don't play RPGs.
Just saying....

« Last Edit: Today at 02:58:31 PM by EvilEvoIX »   Report to moderator    71.187.26.211

Arkhan
Punchy Pedro

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #143 on: Today at 02:54:21 PM »
Quote
Quote from: EvilEvoIX on Today at 02:37:19 PM
See this is what I'm talking about, semantics.  You just admitted the MD68k can handle more sprites and I've been shouting it from the rooftops yet you still call me an idiot.  Ummmm, so in the late 80's early 90's one could argue that most game consoles were 2d sprite based machines and I argued that since the MD68k could handle more sprites in screen at once in addition to multi scrolling backgrounds one could indeed conclude a distinct advantage however I wouldn't call it a complete advantage.

The MD can handle "more sprites on screen at once", but the PCE can handle more sprite PIXELS on screen at once.  So which one is actually better, especially when you consider that sprites are often used for things like scenery and HUDs and shit.

So, PCE can move more pixels around at a time than the MD, and with better colors, to boot.


Quote from: EvilEvoIX on Today at 02:03:30 PM
The PCE does 8-bit things better.  not doing Alien Soldier, sorry.  Its all over the net and in publications you had no monopoly on duch information do quit acting like you just pulled the curtain back.  I also know it does so better than the PCE.  More sprites, more detail, faster.  It's there in black and white and with all the bitching I am getting everyone seems to dance around that statement.  
Monopoly on what information?  No one here is acting like we just unveiled some huge surprise.   We're stating fairly obvious things, assuming you have any bearing on CPUs and programming.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pc+engine+can%27t+do+alien+storm

What information is all over the internet?

Also, what's your fascination with Alien Storm?   The PC Engine can do that.   The main levels are pretty uninspiring and simple, and the shooting parts just use line-scrolling, which anyone knows the PCE can do.

Also, there isn't that much sprite action going on in the beat em up sections...

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[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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VenomMacbeth
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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #144 on: Today at 02:59:14 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Arkhan on Today at 02:54:21 PM

Also, what's your fascination with Alien Storm?   The PC Engine can do that.   The main levels are pretty uninspiring and simple, and the shooting parts just use line-scrolling, which anyone knows the PCE can do.

Also, there isn't that much sprite action going on in the beat em up sections...



Alien Soldier, Arkhan.

Not like it actually matters because it's still completely irrelevant.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:01:28 PM by VenomMacbeth »   Report to moderator    Logged

EvilEvoIX
Floret Sprung

Posts: 161



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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #145 on: Today at 03:03:28 PM »
Quote Modify
Just Christ what do you guys want from me?  Is it my fault that the folks at NEC released a plague of shitty 8 bit looking games in the west and in order to get any comparable game you needed a converter and 3 system card upgrades just get on an even playing field?  Why do people keep masturbating to SAPPHIRE its a great game and all but not the end all be all.  The MD68k and the PC engine are comparable.  I get it I know it.  Lets are it pull off some of the arcade craziness the MD did, it didn't.  It couldn't.  Why am I bring crucified?

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soop
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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #146 on: Today at 03:04:53 PM »
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^
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Quote from: Arkhan on July 11, 2012, 02:01:39 PM
why did you put this in the Turbob section!  Xanaduder is a PCE game!

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE.

"The English hate music, but they absolutely love the noise it makes."
Bonknuts
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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #147 on: Today at 03:09:06 PM »
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touko: Sorry that EvilEvoIX ruined this thread. I don't see any point in furthering this discussion if people have to wade through all this crap just to read what is topic related (even ourselves). If you create a new one, I'd be happy to join in (rather not have to do this on another site forum, but if so then no problem. Maybe MooZ's forum). Maybe the mods can somehow keep EvilEvoIX out of it. Dunno.
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VenomMacbeth
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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #148 on: Today at 03:12:17 PM »
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We get it, Evo.  Sega does what NECan't & we unfairly "crucified" you for hijacking a thread to purvey your dumbassery.

Now who's butthurt?
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soop
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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #149 on: Today at 03:16:44 PM »
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Fucking dick.  I hate censorship, but please Tom don't cease this thread, it's easily the best current thread here.  If Aaron can/wants to delete him and his threads, it's a necessary evil.
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http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/463/show-collection.htm

Quote from: Arkhan on July 11, 2012, 02:01:39 PM
why did you put this in the Turbob section!  Xanaduder is a PCE game!

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE.

"The English hate music, but they absolutely love the noise it makes."

Wait a minute,  did I say that the MD68k was faster than the HU6280?  Oh shit I completely got that backwards.  I meant that the HU6280 was faster than the MD68K.  I got that whole thing BACKWARDS!!!! What a silly goose i am.  WHOOPS, ohhhhh is my face red.  What a silly mistake that was.  Ooooopsie-doodles.  Oh well, at least there was no harm done.  Thanks guys really cool site and community.

[PCEngineHell]

Oh my, look at that, the werewolf zips across the screen on PCE just as fast as the retarded robo-birdman in Cosmic Carnage Action Game on Mega Drive 68K Burning Heart of Brown Colors, but did it years earlier and in more colors then red, brown, and grey. Also, listen to those crisp sounding sound fx not present on the MD port, let alone look, its the correct sprite artwork not found on MD also. Yeah....

[Arkhan Asylum]

Oh, right, Alien Soldier


Yes because the PCE cant do like 4-8 sprites on screen and multi-layer scrolling.


Alien Soldier is flashy and fancy looking because of the background and the obnoxious explosions.   The rest of the game is pretty, well, typical?

[PCEngineHell]

The rest of the game is pretty, well, typical?

Typically rendered in brown, grey, and red with slowdown, yeah. Pretty impressive, for serious.

[VenomMacbeth]

As much as it pains me to say it... Gunstar Heroes > Alien Soldier.

[EvilEvoIX]

As much as it pains me to say it... Gunstar Heroes > Alien Soldier. 

In 2 player for sure.  Great team game.

[PCEngineHell]

/50shadesofbrownSegaGenesisMegaDrive.png

[Tatsujin]

Grafx.  First thing you notice is the colors and the MD68K could never hope to have any of this.

You see, this very intelligent and masterly statement of yours alone proves, that you have absolutely ZERO (0) knowledge about what you're talking about.

So the MD68K does have any colors? Tell me then smart boy, where are these colors exactly located inside the 68K? And how comes, that other hardwares using the very same 68K have way more colors than the one used in the MD?

I'm waiting eagerly to a logical explanation of yours genius



AND

Unless you suddenly bought a System 1.0 card Evo, I don't even see how you could have played it on the Duo-R I sold you, since I did not include one with it.

Oh, he could have play throug the whole stage one easily. But I don't think the Sys card 1.0 was the limitation here

I love the Genesis, perhaps even more than the PCE, but you are telling lies.

hmm..  

[PCEngineHell]

Grafx.  First thing you notice is the colors and the MD68K could never hope to have any of this.

You see, this very intelligent and masterly statement of yours alone proves, that you have absolutely ZERO (0) knowledge about what you're talking about.

So the MD68K does have any colors? Tell me then smart boy, where are these colors exactly located inside the 68K? And how comes, that other hardwares using the very same 68K have way more colors than the one used in the MD?

I'm waiting eagerly to a logical explanation of yours genius



AND

Unless you suddenly bought a System 1.0 card Evo, I don't even see how you could have played it on the Duo-R I sold you, since I did not include one with it.

Oh, he could have play throug the whole stage one easily. But I don't think the Sys card 1.0 was the limitation here

I love the Genesis, perhaps even more than the PCE, but you are telling lies.

hmm.. 

The first line you quote about colors isn't actually mine lol. Might want to go back and correct it since its something Evo said.

[Tatsujin]

oh damn, my bad. mixed it up when I was using my editor to create the quotes.

corrected as true, sorry for the embarrassment.

[EvilEvoIX]

Grafx.  First thing you notice is the colors and the MD68K could never hope to have any of this.

You see, this very intelligent and masterly statement of yours alone proves, that you have absolutely ZERO (0) knowledge about what you're talking about.

So the MD68K does have any colors? Tell me then smart boy, where are these colors exactly located inside the 68K? And how comes, that other hardwares using the very same 68K have way more colors than the one used in the MD?

I'm waiting eagerly to a logical explanation of yours genius



AND

Unless you suddenly bought a System 1.0 card Evo, I don't even see how you could have played it on the Duo-R I sold you, since I did not include one with it.

Oh, he could have play throug the whole stage one easily. But I don't think the Sys card 1.0 was the limitation here

I love the Genesis, perhaps even more than the PCE, but you are telling lies.

hmm..  

According to this site all the MD can display is brown.  This thread is basically a comparison between the MD68K and the HU6280.  Yes I know the VDP displays the colors using RGB in bit format.  Again semantics.  Argue the processor please.

[Tatsujin]

Grafx.  First thing you notice is the colors and the MD68K could never hope to have any of this.

You see, this very intelligent and masterly statement of yours alone proves, that you have absolutely ZERO (0) knowledge about what you're talking about.

So the MD68K does have any colors? Tell me then smart boy, where are these colors exactly located inside the 68K? And how comes, that other hardwares using the very same 68K have way more colors than the one used in the MD?

I'm waiting eagerly to a logical explanation of yours genius

According to this site all the MD can display is brown.

Knock of that bullshit and bring us a correct answer with some substantiated fact onto the table.
Prove us just once, what great stunner and ingenious chap you are.

[PCEngineHell]

According to this site all the MD can display is brown.  This thread is basically a comparison between the MD68K and the HU6280.  Yes I know the VDP displays the colors using RGB in bit format.  Again semantics.  Argue the processor please.

Actually we are just trolling you for your ultimate retardedness in thinking that all the tricks you saw the Genesis do on screen had to do with the 68000, and your total lack of knowledge concerning the VDP, how it works, what it does, everything concerning sprites and background scrolling, etc. About everyone here knows it can do more then display brown. The fact is though you think the Genesis system, and the 68000 in general, seems to do alot more then it does or is capable of, while most others here recognize and admit to its limits as a game system and the limits of the 68000 cpu. In most peoples eyes here its a good system, but we don't trump it up as the be all end all and candy coat that trump up with a couple spoons of Alien Soldier and ResQ on top while spitting out absolute nonsense about the Pc Engine.


(note I should know it does more then display the color brown. I'm one of the few that refined the svideo mod for the damn things Model 1 and Xeye. Pfft, obviously it can do 62 shades of brown, not one or 50 or anything.)

[HercTNT]

Evil. assume for a second that we all got you wrong and your not really trolling but defending your point. Please then take a second to answer a few honest questions. And if i'm wrong, feel free to correct me in a civil manner.

Is the thread about cpu vs cpu? or system vs system?
If its cpu vs cpu, the sound and the video are irrelevent as the cpu produces neither.
If its system vs system then they do matter as its about the core components that make up the machine.
Did you not say yourself near the beggining of this thread that you felt as if people had you all wrong because it was cpu vs cpu and not about the systems?
If so doesnt that make everyone's arguments, including yours, about sprites and backgrounds and sound channels etc irrelevant and off topic?
So do we misunderstand you? or did you change your mind and this is really a system vs system rant and you forgot to tell anyone?

[EvilEvoIX]

I like turtles.   That said everyone and their mother knew this thread would go to hell in a hand basket.  Even if it was just CPU vs CPU.  People just started bringing up more or bs and I went down the hole.  Yes I know what a VDP is and how it displays RGB in bit format.  We are simply looking at cpu's.  that and Altered Beast on the PCE sucks.

[Tatsujin]

Evil. assume for a second that we all got you wrong and your not really trolling but defending your point. Please then take a second to answer a few honest questions. And if i'm wrong, feel free to correct me in a civil manner.

Is the thread about cpu vs cpu? or system vs system?
If its cpu vs cpu, the sound and the video are irrelevent as the cpu produces neither.
If its system vs system then they do matter as its about the core components that make up the machine.
Did you not say yourself near the beggining of this thread that you felt as if people had you all wrong because it was cpu vs cpu and not about the systems?
If so doesnt that make everyone's arguments, including yours, about sprites and backgrounds and sound channels etc irrelevant and off topic?
So do we misunderstand you? or did you change your mind and this is really a system vs system rant and you forgot to tell anyone?

Damn, those are some heavy questions to answer and also so many at once. Not sure our candidate here will be capable of accomplishing this high task asked  (purely judged from all his previous answers and comments done so far).

:edit:

I like turtles.

Q.E.D.

[EvilEvoIX]

Evil. assume for a second that we all got you wrong and your not really trolling but defending your point. Please then take a second to answer a few honest questions. And if i'm wrong, feel free to correct me in a civil manner.

Is the thread about cpu vs cpu? or system vs system?
If its cpu vs cpu, the sound and the video are irrelevent as the cpu produces neither.
If its system vs system then they do matter as its about the core components that make up the machine.
Did you not say yourself near the beggining of this thread that you felt as if people had you all wrong because it was cpu vs cpu and not about the systems?
If so doesnt that make everyone's arguments, including yours, about sprites and backgrounds and sound channels etc irrelevant and off topic?
So do we misunderstand you? or did you change your mind and this is really a system vs system rant and you forgot to tell anyone?

Damn, those are some heavy questions to answer and also so many at once. Not sure our candidate here will be capable of accomplishing this high task asked  (purely judged from all his previous answers and comments done so far).

:edit:

I like turtles.

Q.E.D.

Funny,  I was unsure if you were capable of counting sprites?

[Tatsujin]

Evil. assume for a second that we all got you wrong and your not really trolling but defending your point. Please then take a second to answer a few honest questions. And if i'm wrong, feel free to correct me in a civil manner.

Is the thread about cpu vs cpu? or system vs system?
If its cpu vs cpu, the sound and the video are irrelevent as the cpu produces neither.
If its system vs system then they do matter as its about the core components that make up the machine.
Did you not say yourself near the beggining of this thread that you felt as if people had you all wrong because it was cpu vs cpu and not about the systems?
If so doesnt that make everyone's arguments, including yours, about sprites and backgrounds and sound channels etc irrelevant and off topic?
So do we misunderstand you? or did you change your mind and this is really a system vs system rant and you forgot to tell anyone?

Damn, those are some heavy questions to answer and also so many at once. Not sure our candidate here will be capable of accomplishing this high task asked  (purely judged from all his previous answers and comments done so far).

:edit:

I like turtles.

Q.E.D.

Funny,  I was unsure if you were capable of counting sprites?

Have not exact clue of what you are trying here to tell me again, but I just had an other idea of why not showing your daddy the way into this forum here, may be he is able to substantiate any of the stuff you couldn't.

[EvilEvoIX]

Evil. assume for a second that we all got you wrong and your not really trolling but defending your point. Please then take a second to answer a few honest questions. And if i'm wrong, feel free to correct me in a civil manner.

Is the thread about cpu vs cpu? or system vs system?
If its cpu vs cpu, the sound and the video are irrelevent as the cpu produces neither.
If its system vs system then they do matter as its about the core components that make up the machine.
Did you not say yourself near the beggining of this thread that you felt as if people had you all wrong because it was cpu vs cpu and not about the systems?
If so doesnt that make everyone's arguments, including yours, about sprites and backgrounds and sound channels etc irrelevant and off topic?
So do we misunderstand you? or did you change your mind and this is really a system vs system rant and you forgot to tell anyone?

Damn, those are some heavy questions to answer and also so many at once. Not sure our candidate here will be capable of accomplishing this high task asked  (purely judged from all his previous answers and comments done so far).

:edit:

I like turtles.

Q.E.D.

Funny,  I was unsure if you were capable of counting sprites?

Have not exact clue of what you are trying here to tell me again, but I just had an other idea of why not showing your daddy the way into this forum here, may be he is able to substantiate any of the stuff you couldn't.

I can't seem to pierce your blind fanaticism but I have been attacked from every angle except straight on.  Still clinging to the fact that beyond a shadow of a doubt the HU6280 is indeed faster per clock cycle than the MD68K.  Any beliefs otherwise was mass propaganda started my Amiga fan bois.  Fascists....  That 68K myth needs to die already.

[Tatsujin]

Evil. assume for a second that we all got you wrong and your not really trolling but defending your point. Please then take a second to answer a few honest questions. And if i'm wrong, feel free to correct me in a civil manner.

Is the thread about cpu vs cpu? or system vs system?
If its cpu vs cpu, the sound and the video are irrelevent as the cpu produces neither.
If its system vs system then they do matter as its about the core components that make up the machine.
Did you not say yourself near the beggining of this thread that you felt as if people had you all wrong because it was cpu vs cpu and not about the systems?
If so doesnt that make everyone's arguments, including yours, about sprites and backgrounds and sound channels etc irrelevant and off topic?
So do we misunderstand you? or did you change your mind and this is really a system vs system rant and you forgot to tell anyone?

Damn, those are some heavy questions to answer and also so many at once. Not sure our candidate here will be capable of accomplishing this high task asked  (purely judged from all his previous answers and comments done so far).

:edit:

I like turtles.

Q.E.D.

Funny,  I was unsure if you were capable of counting sprites?

Have not exact clue of what you are trying here to tell me again, but I just had an other idea of why not showing your daddy the way into this forum here, may be he is able to substantiate any of the stuff you couldn't.

I can't seem to pierce your blind fanaticism but I have been attacked from every angle except straight on.  Still clinging to the fact that beyond a shadow of a doubt the HU6280 is indeed faster per clock cycle than the MD68K.  Any beliefs otherwise was mass propaganda started my Amiga fan bois.  Fascists....

[HercTNT]

REGAL!!!!!  is that you?!

[Vecanti]

I can't seem to pierce your blind fanaticism but I have been attacked from every angle except straight on.  Still clinging to the fact that beyond a shadow of a doubt the HU6280 is indeed faster per clock cycle than the MD68K.  Any beliefs otherwise was mass propaganda started my Amiga fan bois.  Fascists....

The original post:

Hi all, i have this in mind for a while ..

How 6280 can compete with Md 68k in performance ???
Of course in case of video game consoles, not in general use(like a computer) .

It seems that in bloc transfert ,the 68k is more capable (with more code of course) ..

Basically, how can they "compete in performance".  It seemed like pretty straight forward question.  There was nothing about graphics or games or fun. 

Performance can be measured a lot ways. Bits and MHZ, as far as I know, is generally a very bad way to measure performance between two completely difference 'families' of CPUs.  So you have to look at, well, that has been covered pretty well already in this thread. 

Comparing the the graphics capabilities and colors of the video chips is not a way to measure performance of the CPU though as far as I am aware.  Comparing peripherals such as CD add ons is not a way to measure CPU performance as far as I am aware. The fun of a game is not a good way to measure CPU performance as far as I am aware. Comparing how good one team ported graphics from an arcade cabinet game is not a good measure of CPU performance as far as I am aware.  These are things that one might use to compare a complete system however, but that would be completely off topic to this thread, as far as I am aware.

[EvilEvoIX]

The answer to the thread is the HU6280 is faster and can move more sprites than the MD68k.

[SignOfZeta]

The answer to the thread is the HU6280 is faster and can move more sprites than the MD68k. 

The answer to this thread is that you can go piss up a rope.

Fucking hell...

[EvilEvoIX]

Here's a great article from EGM Issue #8 from January 1990.  Very nostalgic and very fun looking back at what was.  If you are really interested the entire magazine has been uploaded on www.sega-16.com and if you can sift through the MD68K propaganda it's a good read.  They even go into detail and review JJ and Jeff seriously.


Enjoy....

/image_zps16821d72.jpg


Just for fun....

/img049_zps4f978532.jpg

[Tatsujin]

ROLF!

Read through the first few lines and I instantly recognized that these boys back in 1990 had about as much knowledge of the systems (especially the TG16) as you have today Great reference  

[PCEngineHell]

The answer to the thread is the HU6280 is faster and can move more sprites than the MD68k.

You want something to be flat out better then something else when its not. You want people to believe what you believe concerning this. You made multiple statements confusing the task the cpu handled with what the VDP was actually handling until it was pointed out to you by myself and others. Most of your statements were biased and unfounded and flip flopped between the supposed power you bestowed upon the 68k lurking inside the Genesis (since you had no idea what the VDP was and what it did) and the general trashing of the other system's cpu and its hardware, both audio and visuals, in general.

I have no doubt you believe everything you said, but in that respect I also have no doubt Jim Jones believed everything he said as he helped pour the kool aid. No matter how hard you believe in something, it doesn't make it right, and no amount of emulating Alien Soldier or Ranger X or ResQ on your computer will make it so. You seriously have issues with understanding things being equal in some ways, but differing in others and both being able to trade blows, due to that difference in design and approach. Imagine if you had been around back when the Jaguar was still being marketed. You could have been the go to guy for false advertising and overhype.

I cant believe I am having to play this out for you in such vivid detail, but fuck it, here goes:
system cpus:
Genesis-M68k= really fast cpu
PCE-Hu6280= really fast cpu

system gpu:
Genesis-Yamaha YM7101
Pixel resolution: 320 x 224
64 simultaneous colors of 512 color pallete
64 KBytes of dedicated VRAM
(the nitty gritty=able to display 3 Planes: 2 scrolling playfields, 1 sprite plane
Fast VDP with great background scrolling ability and decent sprite size and pretty good sprite count, but terrible color support on par with Sega Master System)

PCE- 16-bit HuC6260 + 16-bit HuC6270A
Pixel resolution: variable
482 simultaneous colors of 512 color pallete
64 KBytes of dedicated VRAM
HuC6270A able to display one 1 sprite layer.
(the nitty gritty=capable of displaying one sprite layer and one background layer
Fast VDC/VDE combo with great sprite count, capable of displaying very large colorful sprites at great speed at variable screen resolutions with a very vibrant color pallet available to be presented on screen all at once)

What does this equal? Trade offs:

/RastanSagaIIcompare_zps8199b7e6.png


Per the above, this was the going trend between the two systems. You may not like it, but that is simply how it is. So how do you rate total absolute system power exactly? Video processor wise do you just think the Genesis/MD was more powerful simply due to being able to do capable background scrolling and having about Sound Blaster quality music on its best day? Do you consider that alone as having more power? See, I don't. I look at the over all picture. For me, being able to display larger sprites at a capable speed in more colors at different resolutions with less sacrifices to over all image quality, means more power visually, while also still providing a strong soundtrack and good sound fx. It represents to me a more powerful video processor and a more complete experience as a whole both audio and video wise. I don't care if you count the cd tech in or not, but if you do it just makes the PCE that much stronger in the audio department. Video wise the core components have been there since day one.

You have stated that the Pc-Engine feels borderline 8-bit, and yet, it proved time and time again that it handled ports of 16-BIT arcade titles including NEO-GEO, far better then the Mega Drive/Genesis ever did, let alone the Snes in many cases. This is both in play style and visually, along with audio in many cases due to the clearer voices compared to Genesis/MD (and in some cases Snes voices due to muffled tin can Snes crap). So, systems as a whole, with the Pc-Engine having so many better arcade ports in it's stable of top tier titles, in general, are you implying that most every arcade game from these systems generation feels borderline 8-BIT compared to the Genesis/MD?

By implying this, are you realizing you stated that the all powerful Genesis was not even up to snuff when it came to handling said borderline 8-BIT arcade games (your words, not mine, this is what happens when you state the system with the best arcade ports of the three 16-bit home systems feels borderline 8-BIT, it attaches the source material by proxy)? By proxy you are also stating that Neo-Geo cab you own also feels gasp! borderline 8-BIT. I mean, after all, the Pc-Engine did the best ports of Fatal Fury 2, Special, World Heroes 2, and Art of Fighting. Surely if it feels only borderline 8-BIT at best, then these games must feel like barely 16-bit on the NeoGeo then, and less then 8-Bit on the Genesis and Snes ports, possibly even Atari 2600 like to you. Its pretty funny how the things you say and imply come back to haunt you, no?

And I'm not even done yet. When you say "feels borderline 8-bit", do you also mean gameplay? The core gameplay has not changed much between Nes all the way to the Snes and Genesis. In the end you use mostly the directional pad, start button, and 2-3 buttons for actions in the gameplay. On the actual game play, the core dynamics, there is not much difference between Mega Man in his heyday on Nes and the gameplay of Alien Soldier. This is something I would have thought you'd have realized being such a supposed hard core gamer who haz all the romz owns all the games, but sadly the only thing that seems to differentiate 8-BIT and 16-BIT gameplay for you is a few scrolling backgrounds and a couple of semi large sprites (pays no mind the the obvious slowdown/flicker in said games and shitty voices).


Back to audio to address this in full detail. Even audio wise, the Genesis was capable in the audio department for the most part, but when it came to voices it sounded like a busted Pro Audio Spectrum on its best day and music wise like a Sound Blaster Pro on its best, and a normal Sound Blaster on its worst. However, while musically it usually brought it's best stuff to the table often, more often then not it failed terribly at digitized speech. This was the going trend with the Genesis/MD. And this is if you were lucky. Depending on what model of the system you got you may have gotten stuck with some really shitty sound quality.

The PC-Engine on the other hand usually always brought its best stuff to the table concerning voice quality, other then a few rare exceptions like Space Harrier (which is worlds better on PCE then Space Harrier II on MD). Music wise the system at times tended to sound like a suped up Nes to lower end arcade games hardware. Many great examples include games like Raiden, Aero Blasters, Soldier Blade, Ninja Spirit, Bonks Revenge, Bloody Wolf, Street Fighter II, Outrun, Gradius and Salamander. It also didnt suffer the "some models have terrible sound hardware" issue that plagued the Genesis (let alone the random video quality for Composite video that the Genesis had).

Each systems music capability really went off in different directions. There is not many times however where I came away feeling unsatisfied with the Pc-Engines audio quality (only on the absolute worst titles on the system did this happen), and this is coming from an arcade game fans perspective, not a home console fan. I have always been a arcade game fan and hardware enthusiast first and foremost. To put this in a little objectionable arcade fans perspective per system, concerning music quality:

Listen to the music during the following videos,

Life Force Nes:

Salamander PCE:

Salamander/Life Force arcade version music:

(You can easily tell that the Pc-Engine surpasses the Nes in music quality. And I mean, Lifeforce on Nes was no slouch in the music department for that system.)

---------------------------------------------------------------

Raiden Genesis:

Raiden Pc-Engine:

Raiden arcade:

(both home system versions sound quite capable music wise)

---------------------------------------------------------------

Air Buster Genesis:

Aero Blaster Pc Engine:

Air Buster arcade:

(Of special audio note, it would be best to only focus on stage 1's music, as the musical score for stage 2 for the arcade is rather dingy and weak in most parts and the Genesis takes that aspect and makes it worse on that song as a whole. The song seems to have been ditched all together and a new one was created for the TG-16/PCE version on stage 2 that has a far stronger and more consistent sound throughout.)

(Of special visual note, the Pc-Engine version of Aero Blasters/Air Buster has reworked visuals for stage 1, which contains a new island city in the background and sort of different scrolling city in the foreground then what the arcade version presents. The Genesis version is missing the foreground scrolling for its city all together compared to the arcade, which means it couldn't keep up with its borderline 8-bit arcade brethren.)



Basically goes to show you that the Pc-Engine was capable at presenting a fairly nice composition compared to the arcade in many cases. It really depended on what the composer was going for as a whole. You can get shit sounding music out of both the PCE and MD hardware, and great sounding music also, even compared to the arcade. It's all about playing the strengths of the hardware. So, does all this music sound borderline 8-BIT to you?


In the end, if you want to go about presenting the merits of one game system over the other, especially on a thread that originally was meant to focus specifically on the cpus ability, then you damn well better bring a decent argument to the table to represent your side of things, like what I just did above. As of now, you have done no such thing. All you did was spout a bunch of nonsensical bullshit like how your pops was a programmer so you should know. Your dads experience means nothing. Did he program for game companies developing for the Genesis and Pc-Engine/TG-16? No, he did not (if you state he did, you damn well better be able to provide valid proof/multiple work references for him). Its what you bring to the table that matters, and you have no programming experience as of now, unlike many who have posted here that you chose to ignore.

Other nonsense you presented was things like your supposed "facts" like "ResQ cant be done on PCE because Stone Cold said so" and tout the greatness of Alien Soldier. Like anyone even gives a flying fuck about a game starring what apparently would be the character you would get if Mega Man, Robocop, and Toucan Sam raped a robin and it bore a bastard cyberbird, that also happens to be riddled with slowdown and rendered in basically the colors red, brown, and grey and lame ass bosses that more often then not rip off Cosmic Carnage/Cyber Brawl. And last but not least you defined power as being able to render 6 polygons on screen at what seems to be less then 15fps, and the ability to scroll a couple backgrounds. In other words, you are easily influenced by razzle dazzle. Hey, no problem, so were my kids, back when they were like 8 or 9 or something.

In the end, you provided no solid evidence to back up your claims, just empty words, false statements/hyperbole, and totally merit-less examples, and you often confused the work/end results of the VDP of the Genesis with the M68000 which made it even more laughable. You wholly expect everyone to just eat up your fictitious hyperbole claims, and yet you wonder why these said claims keep getting curb stomped no matter what forum you present them to. I am all but surprised that you didn't claim Blast Processing was real at this point. At this time, I would politely ask you to just shut the fuck up concerning this thread. Go back to doing unboxing videos and blowing in av cables din plugs or something. YOU are not needed here.


Also, though I don't exactly think this was your goal (god I'd hope not), please don't cite old ass magazines from 1990 for specs by example for anything other then pure joking. They posted a lot of totally inaccurate system info half the time, or left out system capabilities completely, like in the pages you posted, EGM leaving out of the Turbografx 16 resolution capabilities or them neglecting to state the Genesis only did 64 colors out of that 512, let alone them stating the TG16 cpu was the exact same in the Nes. Fact checking was not the rule of the day at EGM, let alone at GameFan or elsewhere.



(PS: Vestcunt warned you. And also, I'd never go by a guy who blows into av cables and sez he haz all teh gamez/rom master totally on his word alone concerning any kind of tech post without some real valid proof. Now....... blow.)

[touko]

The MD68k moves more sprites and larger sprites faster.

only lol,lol,and lol  ..

A little demo, with only about 5% of CPU load :

[Tatsujin]

Lol touko 

And were are the sprite flickers?

[touko]

The Md sprites/line limit is better in H40 (320 pix), and it can push more sprites/line if sprites are 8 pixels wide ..

But the PCE limitation is not the fact of CPU, 6280 is capable of handling more sprites, an exemple, SGX version of 1941 ..
There are lot of sprites on screen, and background tiles animations, and all without a good DMA .

My demo is not incredible at all, all PCE devs can do that easily,and to be serious, 5% is pessimistic ..

@EVO: It's not our fault if SEGA put a big 16 bit on the front to convince consumers that their console was not an improved SMS.
Yes i know, on screen is very difficult to see the difference 

[EvilEvoIX]

Well come on now....  The Genesis was 16-Bit, that's like, 8 more bits.

You want something to be flat out better then something else when its not. You want people to believe what you believe concerning this.

You see that's just it, you can't see the forest for the trees.  In the West it was better.  Everybody and their mother pointed out the "8-bittedness" of a lot of the games.  Now of course that means nothing technically but here in the West a LOT of the games just stunk.  Here in the states the MD eventually unseated Nintendo and was number one, it was number one in the UK by a larger margin.  Almost nothing took advantage of the HU6280 here in the states and the best games were mail order.  I have them now, I play them now, they didn't compare to what was available in the West at the time, the majority I am speaking of.  

Now for the Japanese market the system ruled and towards the end of the systems life it had comparable games and like you said Arcade games.  Those CD ROM games added a lot of frames of animation that could not be fit on a cart and like many people said the CD rom was in the cards for the PCE since day one and it shows.  I am hammering through a lot of these games and ordering more.  Do you want me to post all the vids of the bad games I mean it's a shame they even call them Super CD Rom games when there is nothing super about them.

You could blame 3rd party or 1st party support, economics, the times, the wind, but the system had trouble delivering. Now this site and this site only seems to have a series of cascading excuses a kin to a mother making excuses for her child and for every group of "programmers" on this site that say once thing I can get just as many from another forum that says another.

I will agree that there is no definitive answer and most of the answers we find are really just based in sales and market predictions from the day (as I posted).  

What I still don't like from my gaming experience on the Turbo/PCE?

1. Every time there is a fire ball on screen in street fighter 2, at least in my copy, there is slow down.  
2. I don't like the sound FX on the PCE in comparison. Every video above that you posted to show me great sounf FX has me just confused.  I can't tell if you are joking or not. I mean they are fun and all but those blits and bloobs are hardly next gen.

3.How everybody and their mother cranks it to Sapphire but it is just on par.  Great game to play but not the visual orgy everyone rants and raves about.  I played through it and gave it a thumbs up, what more do you want a standing ovation and me crying?
4.Have you played AOF on the PCE Arcade?  Not exactly a great arcade conversion.  I have the arcade and the game, a lot is missing and a LOT of animation is missing.  The sound FX were bad as well.  Yes, I get it, a CD holds a lot more than a cart, more animation of a CD I get it.

(PS: Vestcunt warned you. And also, I'd never go by a guy who blows into av cables and sez he haz all teh gamez/rom master totally on his word alone concerning any kind of tech post without some real valid proof. Now....... blow.)

That thing had a giant piece of dust on it.  I guess my Go Prop didn't get it.  A/V cables worked fine but I still need RGB, S-video is not good enough.  Still have all the games.  I suggest you play some more MD games and really see what the system can do.


You guys keep asking about my father so I'll let you know.

He did programing for the defense dept (mostly the army) in development of weapons and defense technology.  Back in the 80's it was a switch activated by the eye for helicopter pilots as their hand and feet were busy at most times.  But more recently stuff like an RPG grenade that when fired over a wall at the enemy it communicates with a satellite in real time so when the enemy is ducking behind a wall and can't be reached directly, the grenade is fired over and when the satellite sees it's directly over head the enemy it explodes.

Today it is a lot of IOS stuff, meaning language translation in real time.  Holding up an I-Phone to a foreign sign and it re arranges it into English.  Also working on a device that has long distance facial recognition in the field.  Lots a stuff far more important then shit we are babbling about.

[Opethian]

[EvilEvoIX]

The MD68k moves more sprites and larger sprites faster.

only lol,lol,and lol  ..

A little demo, with only about 5% of CPU load :

Oh yeah I remember playing that game back in 1993, epic.  Just as visually stunning as Vector Man ;)  The animation of that mech walking and shooting brought me to tears, serious guys, serious.

@EVO: It's not our fault if SEGA put a big 16 bit on the front to convince consumers that their console was not an improved SMS.
Yes i know, on screen is very difficult to see the difference  

Dude.....It's 16 FREAKING BITS!!!!!  PLUS IT HAS HIGH DEFINITION GRAFX!!!


Also that magazine I posted said the PCE was around in 1986?  November of 1986?  If so that is very impressive.

Also does anyone take into the account that most consoles were short sited in that they were made to attack what was available.  Obviously the PCE was aimed at the NES and murdered it.  The MD at the PCE especially with CD technology and then the SNES against the MD.  The Jaguar did the 64 Bit thing and had a technical giant in a 16Bit age far too late and so on.


Or I more of think of this as my theme music.

[Tatsujin]

You are a real pain in the ass clown troll, ain't you?

Unbelievable!

[EvilEvoIX]

You are a real pain in the ass clown troll, ain't you?

Unbelievable!

[Tatsujin]

You guys keep asking about my father so I'll let you know.

He did programing for the defense dept (mostly the army) in development of weapons and defense technology.  Back in the 80's it was a switch activated by the eye for helicopter pilots as their hand and feet were busy at most times.  But more recently stuff like an RPG grenade that when fired over a wall at the enemy it communicates with a satellite in real time so when the enemy is ducking behind a wall and can be reached, the grenade is fired over and when the satellite sees it's directly over head the enemy it explodes.

Today it is a lot of IOS stuff, meaning language translation in real time.  Holding up an Iphone to a foreign sign and it re arranges it into English.  Also working on a device that has long distance facial recognition in the field.  Lots a stuff far more important then shit we are babbling about.

Yeah, your dad's (if it's even true) evil killer war apps sure are way far more important than our obey talk here. behind what shitty moon do you live?

[OldRover]

I don't doubt what EvilEvoIX says about his father. It sounds like pretty standard software engineering. I've coded for the DOD before. What he's saying is more than likely legit. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that he himself knows dick about the subject matter here.

[soop]

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that he himself knows dick about the subject matter here.

Yeah, in the real world.  However in his world, it's proof.

[Tatsujin]

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that he himself knows dick about the subject matter here.

That we do know since he first ever posted into this forum.

[EvilEvoIX]

You guys keep asking about my father so I'll let you know.

He did programing for the defense dept (mostly the army) in development of weapons and defense technology.  Back in the 80's it was a switch activated by the eye for helicopter pilots as their hand and feet were busy at most times.  But more recently stuff like an RPG grenade that when fired over a wall at the enemy it communicates with a satellite in real time so when the enemy is ducking behind a wall and can be reached, the grenade is fired over and when the satellite sees it's directly over head the enemy it explodes.

Today it is a lot of IOS stuff, meaning language translation in real time.  Holding up an Iphone to a foreign sign and it re arranges it into English.  Also working on a device that has long distance facial recognition in the field.  Lots a stuff far more important then shit we are babbling about.

Yeah, your dad's (if it's even true) evil killer war apps sure are way far more important than our obey talk here. behind what shitty moon do you live?

It's defense.  The name of the Company is CACI.  Look it up.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that he himself knows dick about the subject matter here.

That we do know since he first ever posted into this forum.

I now the PCE is 8-Bit, does that count?

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that he himself knows dick about the subject matter here.

Yeah, in the real world.  However in his world, it's proof.

In the real world the Turbo Got trounced by Sega and it's only shot of relevance is on sites like these by fan bois (myself included).  I mean seriously I'm all for revisionist history in the name of fun but even civil war rein-actors eventually take their suits off and go home.  Enjoy your games.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The Sega trounced the Turbo how?   

are we talking strictly USA?  If so, who cares.  The SNES fisted both of them.  Doesn't mean it's better

[EvilEvoIX]

The Sega trounced the Turbo how?  

are we talking strictly USA?  If so, who cares.  The SNES fisted both of them.  Doesn't mean it's better

USA and UK.  Sega eventually cost and beat the SNES in sales but then the 32X debacle and then the Saturn which Sega obviously did not recover from.  But for a short glorious time Sega was #1 in the USA, unseating Nintendo was massively impressive.  But there were so many versions of the Mega drive it was shoe horned into a lot of homes via Genesis 1,2,3 - Megadrive 1,2 - Nomad - Genesis and Megadrive laseractive adaptors - Wondermega - Multimega - JVC Xeye - Sega CDX .  The SNES however was relevant till 1999.  That system had staying power and over all won in sales overall.


Back to the PCE, released November 1986?  Is that true?

[Arkhan Asylum]

no.  you could answer that yourself if you knew how to use a search engine.

[EvilEvoIX]

no.  you could answer that yourself if you knew how to use a search engine.

Like CompuServe ?

[soop]

no.  you could answer that yourself if you knew how to use a search engine.

Like CompuServe ?

/evilevo.gif

[PCEngineHell]

You see that's just it, you can't see the forest for the trees.  In the West it was better.  Everybody and their mother pointed out the "8-bittedness" of a lot of the games.  Now of course that means nothing technically but here in the West a LOT of the games just stunk.  Here in the states the MD eventually unseated Nintendo and was number one, it was number one in the UK by a larger margin.  Almost nothing took advantage of the HU6280 here in the states and the best games were mail order.  I have them now, I play them now, they didn't compare to what was available in the West at the time, the majority I am speaking of.

If that was truly the case, I would only judge the system, any system, by the native North American library. I am a open minded gamer. I play imports and have tried to play about anything worth playing on most systems other then PS1. I also don't consider the NA release list for TG to just totally suck and the best games were not simply by mail order. I don't think you even had a Turbografx back in the day. You definitely don't sound like you did.

There was plenty of shooters and action games in there to make the library legitimately fun. Outside of the few games actually developed by North American developers, most were games like Raiden, Aero Blasters, Bloody Wolf, Alien/Devils Crush, Cadash, Bonks Revenge, Splatterhouse, Ninja Spirit, Parasol Stars, Air Zonk, Bomber Man 93, Chase HQ, Galaga 90, Super Star soldier, Soldier Blade, Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu, New Adventure Island, R-Type, etc. Thats not even covering cd game releases here in the US. Just because you decided to jump in during 2013 doesn't mean the rest of us missed out on either the US or Japanese side of things.

So again, tell me this, in the list above, do most of these titles feel "borderline 8-BIT" to you? Because again, most that are arcade ports retain the look and feel of the arcade original, which was 16-BIT. and then you always have games like Raiden and Bomberman 93, both of which completely suck ass visually on the Genesis.

Now for the Japanese market the system ruled and towards the end of the systems life it had comparable games and like you said Arcade games.  Those CD ROM games added a lot of frames of animation that could not be fit on a cart and like many people said the CD rom was in the cards for the PCE since day one and it shows.  I am hammering through a lot of these games and ordering more.  Do you want me to post all the vids of the bad games I mean it's a shame they even call them Super CD Rom games when there is nothing super about them.

No doubt, the Japanese market did rule, which is why I have been open to importing for years, even for systems like the Neo-Geo or 3DO. Concerning Japanese PCE library, yes, it had a large cache of arcade ports, and yes, most of them were very good to excellent. Most all were better then their Mega Drive/Genesis counterparts. "Comparable" is hardly the word to describe it. Concerning you posting more videos, I think not. I could really care less as far as what you think is a good game versus a bad one. At best all you could do is hope to amuse me by blowing spit on a few games or something like you did the av cable.

You could blame 3rd party or 1st party support, economics, the times, the wind, but the system had trouble delivering. Now this site and this site only seems to have a series of cascading excuses a kin to a mother making excuses for her child and for every group of "programmers" on this site that say once thing I can get just as many from another forum that says another.

Other then whatever it is you are rambling on about in the first sentence, concerning most of the second, and think it has been confirmed you tried preaching elsewhere and were shot down. It's your destiny to fail. You are just repeating a cycle of events here as you build up some solid ignores along the way.

I will agree that there is no definitive answer and most of the answers we find are really just based in sales and market predictions from the day (as I posted).

The answers you found are based on hype and old magazines and a few fanboi based opinions. I decided to settle on proof of solid engineering via playable examples presented to me in the form of games. 

What I still don't like from my gaming experience on the Turbo/PCE?

What makes you think we care. No one here considers you a legitimate gamer anymore.

1. Every time there is a fire ball on screen in street fighter 2, at least in my copy, there is slow down.

You're imagining things. Stop being retarded.

2. I don't like the sound FX on the PCE in comparison. Every video above that you posted to show me great sounf FX has me just confused.  I can't tell if you are joking or not. I mean they are fun and all but those blits and bloobs are hardly next gen.

For one, I really don't care if you like the PCE sound or not. Its subjective to say the least. Two, every video I linked to was to give you a music example, not a sound fx one. Three, the sound fx in the videos for the Genesis versions were not any better. You are clearly hearing what you want to hear and seeing what you want to see, and again, no one takes your opinion seriously anymore.

3. How everybody and their mother cranks it to Sapphire but it is just on par.  Great game to play but not the visual orgy everyone rants and raves about.  I played through it and gave it a thumbs up, what more do you want a standing ovation and me crying?

Not once have I brought up Sapphire to make my case in point. As stated, I don't believe in razzle dazzle, and to me Sapphire is a C+ game at best. Its a visual showcase at best, and personally I could care less for its art style. I will take Gradius II on PCE any day of the week over Sapphire.

4. Have you played AOF on the PCE Arcade?  Not exactly a great arcade conversion.  I have the arcade and the game, a lot is missing and a LOT of animation is missing.  The sound FX were bad as well.  Yes, I get it, a CD holds a lot more than a cart, more animation of a CD I get it.

I have owned and played every release of Art of Fighting released to market, including the Neo CD, MVS, and AES releases. I am a bit of a AOF nut who will staunchly defend the game against all AOF haters who hate its complicated attack system (throw attack doubling as strong attacks and also being held and used in conjunction with normal punch and kick for low blows etc) or its difficulty. This is how I noticed things like the background scrolling layer in the Genesis port and how it is absent from the Neo.

Concerning the animation on the PCE, no, it is not 100 percent perfect, but it is hands down the best version available outside of the NeoGeo and PS2 anthology, and it is also mostly intact, even to the extent that it presents the forward and back walking animations and things like the animated street signs in the background in the bar. There is honestly not that much character animation missing. It is very minute. And regardless of ram storage, the other version, Mega Drive and Snes, dont play too hot. This is espically true of the Genesis/MD port. Try playing it. It plays like a joke and it is even actually missing entire moves/attacks that even the Snes version retained.

If you think otherwise, again, you are imagining things. But again, this goes without saying. You're the fool that stated that the PCE felt "borderline 8-bit", the same system with tons of arcade ports with quality so high they proved its visual superiority over the Genesis/MD VDP. You lost all credibility with me concerning arcade ports when you stated that "borderline 8-bit" bullshit. Now all I consider you to be is a late coming poser youtube upstart begging for video views (we call this attention whoring, so you go girl  ).

That thing had a giant piece of dust on it.  I guess my Go Prop didn't get it.

Uhh huh, yeah, its really hard to get giant imaginary dust balls on video. It did however have no problem capturing you blowing your spittle into the din plug, both on audio and video.

A/V cables worked fine but I still need RGB, S-video is not good enough.  Still have all the games.

Of course the AV cable worked fine. And it wasn't dusty. Its a bit hard/impossible to get large balls of dust in the din when it spent the majority of its life being plugged directly into the system, or in a zip baggie, or wrapped in bubble wrap during transport. As with all things, I tested it before I shipped the system out and recorded a video of it running multiple games just in case you decided to break the thing on arrive (Glad I did. You manhandled the thing like a idiot in your video. I can only imagine how you treat it off camera...)

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(take a good look, I bet this asshole will kill the thing in a year, two years max, and I will laugh when no one here volunteers to fix it for him)

Concerning the games you still have, who cares? S-video not good enough? Again, who cares? I wonder how many people here will be willing to restore the RGB out for you after you exposed yourself so stupidly on this thread? Maybe you can have your pops to it for you in-between programming spy satellites. Hope he can replace your laser too after you kill it on your Taiwanese junk short strategy warez you burned off.

I suggest you play some more MD games and really see what the system can do.

This is a pretty idiotic statement coming from you considering I'm one of the few to finalize the S-video mod for the Genesis 1 and X-Eye, let alone figure out the region mod on the Majesco Model 2. 

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?159741-Genesis-2-Model-MK-1451-how-to-do-region-mod&p=2174693&viewfull=1#post2174693

http://home.comcast.net/~amakusa666/PC-ENGINE-HELL-SONY-CX1145-MOD.htm

Yeah, that was me, so you can fuck off Mr. I've done nothing but spent my time collecting mah romz&iso and being a fucking no nuthin poser on teh forums. I have plenty of experience with the Genesis and Mega Drive library. That has been made a abundantly clear over the years Mr. Borderline Poser Gamer Personality Disorder.

You guys keep asking about my father so I'll let you know.

No, we didn't. Not really at all, but hey, waste more of your own time talking about pops. 

more rambling and other made up shit to make pops sound important, cause I really think someone here cares

No one cares. Really.

Back to the PCE, released November 1986?  Is that true?

You got google. Fucking use it poser.