PCE Golden Axe

[OldRover]

Yes, the game is two-player co-op.

[Tatsujin]

Or a exclusive three player mode?

Or make it shit golden eggs out of the cd tray?

[spenoza]

It runs at a lower resolution though; I'm using 256 pixels instead of the arcade's 320. It won't look that much different on a regular TV though, since things will simply be slightly stretched horizontally.

Would you mind sharing the rationale as to why you chose not to use the PCE's 320 mode?

[OldRover]

Would you mind sharing the rationale as to why you chose not to use the PCE's 320 mode?

Style issues, mainly. Doing the title screen in 320 pixels would have made it pretty much impossible to do it nicely, since we have such limited amount of sprite pixels and only one background layer to work with... that alone is a VRAM nightmare even at 256 pixels. Also, the HUD looks nicer in 256 pixels, since the life bars stretch a bit... looks more like the arcade that way. Little details like that add up.

[Tatsujin]

So it's using full SCD support. How would it turn out made as a ACD game?
Pure hypothetically

[A Black Falcon]

This is so awesome!  Golden Axe has always been one of my favorite beat 'em ups... I hope you people manage to finish this.

Or a exclusive three player mode?

You know, there isn't one single beat 'em up for any console before the PS2 (and it is the PS2; the DC doesn't have any) which has a three or more player mode in its main game.  Guardian Heroes (Saturn) has a six player battle mode, and The Peace Keepers (SNES) a four player battle mode, but neither game supports more than two in the main game, and no others do either.

I'm sure it'd be difficult, particularly on a 4th gen console, but someday someone should correct this problem.

[ParanoiaDragon]

We'll add the thief as the 3rd player as a compromise!

In regards to the cinemas, those would take a lot of work.  Besides voice acting, we'd need to translate it, rip the gfx, probably need to recolor them, & add more frames of animation.  But what I think would be the greatest hurdle, is the fact that the original PCE Golden Axe relies on it being only 1 player.  In it, whichever character you choose, has specific cinemas for that character at the beginning & end.  With this being 2 player, we'd have to somehow re-write the cinemas & combine them so that they match up for multi-players.

[awack]

The recoloring is absolutely beautiful, Brawlers along with platform shooters is a genres that the pce is in need of, if this ever comes to fruition, I wouldn't hesitate one sec to purchase it.

[Psycho Punch]

Is there any chance of buying pressed copies of the game when it's done or it won't be possible due to copyright issues?

(I also wonder how the hell did that swiss(?) guy pressed a ton of sapphire discs without trouble)

[Tatsujin]

Is there any chance of buying pressed copies of the game when it's done or it won't be possible due to copyright issues?

(I also wonder how the hell did that swiss(?) guy pressed a ton of sapphire discs without trouble)

That swiss(?) guy is in fact a german guy, but which used swiss technology to produce his booties

He used equipment from a swiss company called care4data.

[OldRover]

Is there any chance of buying pressed copies of the game when it's done or it won't be possible due to copyright issues?

(I also wonder how the hell did that swiss(?) guy pressed a ton of sapphire discs without trouble)

It'd probably have to be done by a Chinese replicator, since the Chinese have absolutely no respect for copyrights. I could, however, also look into a license to replicate the game.

[Psycho Punch]

Is there any chance of buying pressed copies of the game when it's done or it won't be possible due to copyright issues?

(I also wonder how the hell did that swiss(?) guy pressed a ton of sapphire discs without trouble)

It'd probably have to be done by a Chinese replicator, since the Chinese have absolutely no respect for copyrights. I could, however, also look into a license to replicate the game.

I smell a fundraiser...

[spenoza]

Would you mind sharing the rationale as to why you chose not to use the PCE's 320 mode?

Style issues, mainly. Doing the title screen in 320 pixels would have made it pretty much impossible to do it nicely, since we have such limited amount of sprite pixels and only one background layer to work with... that alone is a VRAM nightmare even at 256 pixels. Also, the HUD looks nicer in 256 pixels, since the life bars stretch a bit... looks more like the arcade that way. Little details like that add up.

If I may be so bold... I wouldn't mind a lack of background effects to get the full 320 width. But since you are likely to stick to 256, since most of us will likely play this on real hardware, would you consider thinning some of the sprites just a little so that when they stretch to fill a 4x3 TV screen they don't become overly plump looking? A fat dwarf just won't have the same impact.

[BigusSchmuck]

Would you mind sharing the rationale as to why you chose not to use the PCE's 320 mode?

Style issues, mainly. Doing the title screen in 320 pixels would have made it pretty much impossible to do it nicely, since we have such limited amount of sprite pixels and only one background layer to work with... that alone is a VRAM nightmare even at 256 pixels. Also, the HUD looks nicer in 256 pixels, since the life bars stretch a bit... looks more like the arcade that way. Little details like that add up.

A fat dwarf just won't have the same impact.

But its a fat dwarf with a big golden axe!

[A Black Falcon]

We'll add the thief as the 3rd player as a compromise!

Why the thief?

In regards to the cinemas, those would take a lot of work.  Besides voice acting, we'd need to translate it, rip the gfx, probably need to recolor them, & add more frames of animation.  But what I think would be the greatest hurdle, is the fact that the original PCE Golden Axe relies on it being only 1 player.  In it, whichever character you choose, has specific cinemas for that character at the beginning & end.  With this being 2 player, we'd have to somehow re-write the cinemas & combine them so that they match up for multi-players.

That does sound like it'd be a huge amount of work, yeah.  I don't think anyone would expect all that... it would be very cool if done, but doing all that would surely take a lot of time...

[VestCunt]

It'd probably have to be done by a Chinese replicator, since the Chinese have absolutely no respect for copyrights. I could, however, also look into a license to replicate the game.

Licensing will be a can of worms if you're taking music from different sources. Anyway, best not even talk about copyright stuff on the forums or people will freak out and this project will go the way of the Marble Madness prototype and Virtualboy Faceball.

[Keith Courage]

This project looks so freaking awesome!!!!!

[Tatsujin]

I wonder why the programmer/creator in the old days couldn't use these kind of method/techniques more often to port over games from the arcade?

On the PCE I know that they did it for games like Monsterlair, bikkuriman World and partially in games like chicky chicky boys, forgotten worlds, rainbow island etc. but most of the ports were redrawn from very srcatch, and in few cases even very accurate (like R-Type, mr. heli).

sure there were licensing issues, and in case of using hucard, also storage limitations.

[OldRover]

I wonder why the programmer/creator in the old days couldn't use these kind of method/techniques more often to port over games from the arcade?

Because back then, they didn't have geniuses like Charles MacDonald, Black Tiger, or Paranoia Dragon on their teams.

[Tatsujin]

I wonder why the programmer/creator in the old days couldn't use these kind of method/techniques more often to port over games from the arcade?

Because back then, they didn't have geniuses like Charles MacDonald, Black Tiger, or Paranoia Dragon on their teams.

you think this was the only reason? yet they were able of creating some of the finest 2D games of all time on their very own?

It's not that they were't able to do it, since they already did it as mention above. but many of 'em choosed the rocky road of re-drawing everything rather than porting it over on the ease.

[Psycho Punch]

I'm not sure about console ports but for the home computer ones the company who had a digital video capture device for sprite ripping was king... they received very little support from the original game creators.

[OldRover]

Well, in terms of home ports and such, it might have been just space limitations. In this game in particular, there are a *lot* of tiles. I imagine they just did new tiles that were "close enough" in order to not have to deal with that.

Most of the sprites in the Genesis conversion are taken from the arcade version, but some are missing and many are recolored... some are just simple recolors (like Gillius) and some are literally repixeled but use the same base sprites (like Bad Bros). One particularly obnoxious omission from the Genesis version is the total lack of enemy "moving up" frames... also, the player characters have two frames missing from their walking animations. Some of the enemies that can run are missing their run frames... the Bad Bros base set and the Death Adder base set in particular. Bad Bros and Knight are also missing entire attack sequences, and there's also the aforementioned lack of proper movement.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I wonder why the programmer/creator in the old days couldn't use these kind of method/techniques more often to port over games from the arcade?

Because back then, they didn't have geniuses like Charles MacDonald, Black Tiger, or Paranoia Dragon on their teams.

Awwwww shucks, tweren't nuthin'!

[awack]

Damn, I didn't even think about  license and copyright issues when I opened my big mouth about buying this game, most people would say there is only only one high quality brawler for the pcengine and that's Double Dragon 2, this would make two, I just played the Genesis port like three days before I saw this thread....pressed CD, nice looking back insert and manual, and of course a spine card:) I use to pay between $70 and $100 for pce imports back in the early 90s, I would pay a similar price for this, I really want this in my collection and yeah, Black Tiger did an amazing job on the colors, wow.

[pixeljunkie]

I want to throw my entire wallet at this!!!

[pixeljunkie]

sidenote, in terms of a professional run of these:

I think if the disk gets pressed professionally, then we can all just swap the disk in our Golden Axes.

[Psycho Punch]

sidenote, in terms of a professional run of these:

I think if the disk gets pressed professionally, then we can all just swap the disk in our Golden Axes.

Good idea!

[Tatsujin]

i'd be for a double case.

the very goodie and the uber baddy

[pixeljunkie]

i'd be for a double case.

the very goodie and the uber baddy

I also love this idea.

[Nando]

SO PRETTY!!! the redux version of course.

[ElSeven]

this is very exciting news! can't wait to see the progress unfold on this project. 

[Tatsujin]

i guess the most difficult part will be implementing/realizing the whole game flow/game play etc., so that it really does replicate the arcade the most faithful way possible. or is there some very simple trickery of adopting/immigrating the original arcade game code to the pce?

[ParanoiaDragon]

We'll add the thief as the 3rd player as a compromise!

Why the thief?

In regards to the cinemas, those would take a lot of work.  Besides voice acting, we'd need to translate it, rip the gfx, probably need to recolor them, & add more frames of animation.  But what I think would be the greatest hurdle, is the fact that the original PCE Golden Axe relies on it being only 1 player.  In it, whichever character you choose, has specific cinemas for that character at the beginning & end.  With this being 2 player, we'd have to somehow re-write the cinemas & combine them so that they match up for multi-players.

That does sound like it'd be a huge amount of work, yeah.  I don't think anyone would expect all that... it would be very cool if done, but doing all that would surely take a lot of time...

I figure having the thief as a 3rd player, is the most likely way of having 3 players do to his size.  He'd still be 1 sprite extra onscreen, same as Ax Battler & Tyris(I think Gilius will take up 2 sprites for him & the axe).  I'm sure it still wouldn't work, or if it did, there'd be flicker/slowdown, so maybe as a cheat.


As for licensing, yeah, that could be a real problem.  I know when Xseed was brining Ys 1-3 for PSP over, they were trying to include the PCE versions of the music(& possibly others) but there were quite a few hurdles.  You have Hudson whose now owned by Konami, you got Ryo Yonemistu who did the redbook, the musicians for the chiptunes, Falcom & JDK(not sure if they're 1 or 2 legal entities), & the original composers(such as Yuzo Koshiro).  All or most of these entities being involved made it impossible, or atleast, stupidly expensive.

For Golden Axe, you got Sega, musicians for the arcade Golden Axe, Renovations musicians, & Telenet whose properties are MOSTLY owned by Sunsoft(but not all).  So, for all I know, the music of this version could have ties to Wolfteam, & I believe they're part of Bandai/Namco.  Most or all of them could be involved. :/

[Tatsujin]

yeah, fuck the whole licensing and bring it out as hombru with a neat case and artwork (preferred on pressed cd) which can be puchased as kind of a donation fee within the community only.

Beside, that tobias twat is selling booties for many years now all over the world without anything happening to him, simply because nobody gives a fuck about what a minority on an 25 year old, long abandoned system is doing these days.

[esteban]

yeah, fuck the whole licensing and bring it out as hombru with a neat case and artwork (preferred on pressed cd) which can be puchased as kind of a donation fee within the community only.

Beside, that tobias twat is selling booties for many years now all over the world without anything happening to him, simply because nobody gives a fuck about what a minority on an 25 year old, long abandoned system is doing these days.

Sapphire isn't an immensely popular property like Sega's Golden Axe or Capcom's Megaman. Sega/Capcom are much more likely to do something.

[Tatsujin]

yeah, fuck the whole licensing and bring it out as hombru with a neat case and artwork (preferred on pressed cd) which can be puchased as kind of a donation fee within the community only.

Beside, that tobias twat is selling booties for many years now all over the world without anything happening to him, simply because nobody gives a fuck about what a minority on an 25 year old, long abandoned system is doing these days.

Sapphire isn't an immensely popular property like Sega's Golden Axe or Capcom's Megaman. Sega/Capcom are much more likely to do something.

the same guy did also megaman (capcom) for PCE -> no claim so far

[DragonmasterDan]

the same guy did also megaman (capcom) for PCE -> no claim so far

No claim that we know of.

[Tatsujin]

the same guy did also megaman (capcom) for PCE -> no claim so far

No claim that we know of.

And still selling it.

[MotherGunner]

I like the double CD option.  Perhaps an artwork insert with credits for the main booklet.  Hell, Sparky can do stickers!

[Arkhan Asylum]

i guess the most difficult part will be implementing/realizing the whole game flow/game play etc., so that it really does replicate the arcade the most faithful way possible.

That's the easy part.  The hard part is writing the game engine in general. (The scrolling, tiling, enemies, and all of that shit).

or is there some very simple trickery of adopting/immigrating the original arcade game code to the pce?

No.   If it were simple, it would be done already.

[Kusanagi]

Can't be any worse than the Commodore 64 version.
http://www.lemon64.com/?game_id=1068
Horrid.

the poor C64 was far more capable than whoever ported the game to it =\

[Tatsujin]

i guess the most difficult part will be implementing/realizing the whole game flow/game play etc., so that it really does replicate the arcade the most faithful way possible.

That's the easy part.  The hard part is writing the game engine in general. (The scrolling, tiling, enemies, and all of that shit).

basically what I ment (sry), since the engine is primarily responsible for all the later game flow/flawness as well replication of the game play eyc.

or is there some very simple trickery of adopting/immigrating the original arcade game code to the pce?

No.   If it were simple, it would be done already.

that's sad

[OldRover]

I'm not sure how well a 68000-to-65C02 conversion would go.

[Tatsujin]

I'm not sure how well a 68000-to-65C02 conversion would go.

converting man, converting

these days, everything can be converted in anyting

[OldRover]

Someone convert air to cash for me then...

[Nando]

Someone convert air to cash for me then...

[Arkhan Asylum]

the poor C64 was far more capable than whoever ported the game to it =\ 

Not really.

and, the C64 version didn't turn out too bad all in all.

[jeffhlewis]

the poor C64 was far more capable than whoever ported the game to it =\ 

Not really.

and, the C64 version didn't turn out too bad all in all.

I was going to say - judging by the videos on YouTube it looks kind of impressive for the time.

Edit - also it still blows my mind that there's a Wonderswan version, haha.

[BigusSchmuck]

Someone convert air to cash for me then...

Put a donation page and I guarantee your wish will come true. Well close enough at least.

[Tatsujin]

Edit - also it still blows my mind that there's a Wonderswan version, haha.

I have that and it's a wonderful port