Old Source code

westwood68 · 12/03/2013, 04:10 AM

Hi, I am a new member here but really joined because I did a couple of games on the pc engine for Accolade back in the mists of time.

I still have the floppies with the source code & was wondering if there might be any interest in making then available for download. Bear in mind that it was a long time ago and the source may not be best and up to modern standards (I haven't even looked at it yet...).

If there is an interest, can anyone point me to a resource that might be suitable to upload to so that it would be available to everyone. I was thinking of uploading the archive.org through Jason Scott but thought I would ask here first if there was somewhere better suited.
Thanks

PS the games in question are Gunboat and Turrican and the source is all in assembler. Not sure what the legalities are but I'm sure nobody really cares now..

Arkhan Asylum · 12/03/2013, 07:54 AM

Turrican! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

You could always use Sourceforge? but, Archive.org works, too.

Psycho Punch · 12/03/2013, 09:41 AM

Gunboat source code? I'm not sure if you could upload on Archive.org seeing that the source might still be copyrighted...

NecroPhile · 12/03/2013, 09:43 AM

Please do share 'em somewhere (for posterity if nothing else), and welcome aboard! You got any cool stories from back in the day of Turbob programming?

jeffhlewis · 12/03/2013, 10:03 AM

You've definitely come to the right place - there's a lot of folks here who would love to check out the code and a lot of folks involved in the PCE/Turbo homebrew scene.

Would also love to hear some dev stories as well from back in the day.

westwood68 · 12/03/2013, 10:51 AM

Quote from: guest on 12/03/2013, 09:41 AMGunboat source code? I'm not sure if you could upload on Archive.org seeing that the source might still be copyrighted...

Well we can but try...looks like all Accolade's assets went to Atari who have now filed for bankruptcy so I don't think anyone will really care. (Except maybe the copyright trolls...)

The code was a conversion of the original PC version written by Tom Loughry who I have tried to contact numerous time to no avail.

westwood68 · 12/03/2013, 11:01 AM

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 12/03/2013, 10:03 AMYou've definitely come to the right place - there's a lot of folks here who would love to check out the code and a lot of folks involved in the PCE/Turbo homebrew scene.

Would also love to hear some dev stories as well from back in the day.

I'll get the code off first and tidy it up before any posting.

As for stories; there really aren't any outstanding ones other than the usual from back then. The biggest hurdle was the pig-english of the dev manuals (literal Japanese translations) and the lack of dev equipment/tools. I remember having to go down to a music shop and get the sheet music for Ride of the Valkyries then hand typing the numbers to represent the pitch and length of each note.

Of course the other issue was the fact that we were based in the UK and Accolade were in USA so any builds had to be sent by modem and took about 45 mins just for a single build. Most of the time the transfer failed as well.

Accolade did try to get us to do the C64 version of Gunboat as well because we had converted the code to 6502-like assembler. We had to point out that a cpu running at 1Mhz couldn't quite do the same as one running at 7.62...

OldMan · 12/03/2013, 11:36 AM

Thank You. 1000 times, Thank You.

No need to tidy up the code - it's always enlightening to see what developers did wrong, as well as right. If you happen to come across any other documentation or tools, those would be appreciated as well.

And a note to those complaining about the current tools.... See, it wasn't much (if any) better originally

Arkhan Asylum · 12/03/2013, 02:08 PM

Quote from: westwood68 on 12/03/2013, 11:01 AM
Quote from: jeffhlewis on 12/03/2013, 10:03 AMYou've definitely come to the right place - there's a lot of folks here who would love to check out the code and a lot of folks involved in the PCE/Turbo homebrew scene.

Would also love to hear some dev stories as well from back in the day.
I'll get the code off first and tidy it up before any posting.

As for stories; there really aren't any outstanding ones other than the usual from back then. The biggest hurdle was the pig-english of the dev manuals (literal Japanese translations) and the lack of dev equipment/tools. I remember having to go down to a music shop and get the sheet music for Ride of the Valkyries then hand typing the numbers to represent the pitch and length of each note.

Of course the other issue was the fact that we were based in the UK and Accolade were in USA so any builds had to be sent by modem and took about 45 mins just for a single build. Most of the time the transfer failed as well.

Accolade did try to get us to do the C64 version of Gunboat as well because we had converted the code to 6502-like assembler. We had to point out that a cpu running at 1Mhz couldn't quite do the same as one running at 7.62...

This made me lol. I picture you typing flight of the valkyries out, to the tune of flight of the valkyries.

Did you guys have any C stuff to work with at the time, or no?

Maybe we can rebuild Turrican so that you can actually aim UP.

It would blow everyone's minds.

Arjak · 12/03/2013, 02:44 PM

Wow, thank you for coming here! I'm sure that any materials you can show us would be greatly appreciated by the other members who are programming for the system.

Psycho Punch · 12/03/2013, 04:11 PM

Does Gunboat has any sort of ending? I've unlocked all missions but no credits, no nothing. Do you remember if anything like that was programmed in the game?

esteban · 12/03/2013, 06:21 PM

Quote from: westwood68 on 12/03/2013, 04:10 AMHi, I am a new member here but really joined because I did a couple of games on the pc engine for Accolade back in the mists of time.

I still have the floppies with the source code & was wondering if there might be any interest in making then available for download. Bear in mind that it was a long time ago and the source may not be best and up to modern standards (I haven't even looked at it yet...).

If there is an interest, can anyone point me to a resource that might be suitable to upload to so that it would be available to everyone. I was thinking of uploading the archive.org through Jason Scott but thought I would ask here first if there was somewhere better suited.
Thanks

PS the games in question are Gunboat and Turrican and the source is all in assembler. Not sure what the legalities are but I'm sure nobody really cares now..

Welcome, comrade.

Personally, I would love any little details you can remember about the development ...such as:

(1) how much time did you have? Were the deadlines realistic? Were the milestones delivered?

(2) how many people were involved, and what role(s)/responsibilities did each person have?

(3) what hardware did you use?

(4) any info on your resume/employment history you are comfortable sharing...for example, were you a salaried employee of company X or a freelancer for Turrican/Gunboat?

(5) do you remember any particularly challenging/annoying/duh! Moments.....

(6) what did you do immediately after Gunboat/Turrican? What are you doing now? Have you ever played the finished product?

(7) Did you watch Blake's 7? If you did, did you think it was corny? Or did you think it was fun show. I loved it, despite the corn.

(

what do you love? What do you enjoy?

westwood68 · 12/04/2013, 07:47 AM

Quote from: guest on 12/03/2013, 04:11 PMDoes Gunboat has any sort of ending? I've unlocked all missions but no credits, no nothing. Do you remember if anything like that was programmed in the game?

Not that I remember. It was just a straight port from the PC and I'm sure that didn't either. Guess I'll see when I get the source off those old floppies.

I'm working away from home till this weekend so will try to read them in then.

westwood68 · 12/04/2013, 07:49 AM

Quote from: guest on 12/03/2013, 02:08 PMDid you guys have any C stuff to work with at the time, or no?

No there were no compilers back then. C wasn't really that big as I recall.

westwood68 · 12/04/2013, 08:11 AM

Quote from: esteban on 12/03/2013, 06:21 PM(1) how much time did you have? Were the deadlines realistic? Were the milestones delivered?

As I recall, each project was 20 weeks and yes we did do it in time. But the end was always working 18 hour days to fix the bugs

Quote from: esteban on 12/03/2013, 06:21 PM(2) how many people were involved, and what role(s)/responsibilities did each person have?

Just two on each project. One for the coding and one for the graphics. We had a Producer at Accolade but he wasn't in the office obviously

Quote from: esteban on 12/03/2013, 06:21 PM(3) what hardware did you use?

We had the original PC engine dev system from NEC. It was a black box about 12" x 6 " x 4 ". Not this one:-
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?18738-Possible-PC-Engine-Devkit
That is a different one and released later.
Unfortunately is was only on loan so didn't get to keep it...

Quote from: esteban on 12/03/2013, 06:21 PM(4) any info on your resume/employment history you are comfortable sharing...for example, were you a salaried employee of company X or a freelancer for Turrican/Gunboat?

I was an employee/owner of the company Accolade contracted to do the conversions. We got the contract on the strength of our previous work for them.

Quote from: esteban on 12/03/2013, 06:21 PM(5) do you remember any particularly challenging/annoying/duh! Moments.....

Late nights fixing bugs and getting the character based screen of the PC to do 3D was a challenge; mainly because of lack of knowledge and experience. There is so much 3D around these days it would be much easier. And lack of video ram for the graphics of course. That was always an issue

Quote from: esteban on 12/03/2013, 06:21 PM(6) what did you do immediately after Gunboat/Turrican? What are you doing now? Have you ever played the finished product?

The producer who worked at Accolade left the company to go work for Sega then Sony so we got more work from them on Megadrive/Saturn/32x/PS1 and PS2. The company finally decided to close a few years ago after doing some stuff on PSP/PC and iPhone but by that time it wasn't fun anymore. Too many people and teams were too big. Plus some of the product the company did with the large teams was just plain shit because we couldn't get the right people.

As a day job I'm in business programming which means I earn twice as much for half the work but I do miss the gaming side. Still mess at home and will definitely be doing some indie stuff at some point whether for profit or not. It's one of the reasons why I wanted to drag out the old source code.

(7) Did you watch Blake's 7? If you did, did you think it was corny? Or did you think it was fun show. I loved it, despite the corn.[/quote]
Never got into that really. Guess I was too busy stuck in the bedroom being unsociable & programming at that age.

Quote from: esteban on 12/03/2013, 06:21 PM( what do you love? What do you enjoy?

Same as most on this bit of the forum;Programming. That's why I started and that's why I'm still doing it.

NecroPhile · 12/04/2013, 10:24 AM

Quote from: westwood68 on 12/04/2013, 08:11 AMStill mess at home and will definitely be doing some indie stuff at some point whether for profit or not.

Homebrew for the Turbo?

OldMan · 12/04/2013, 10:26 AM

Quoteeach project was 20 weeks...Just two [people] on each project.

I'm officially impressed. That's a new game roughly every 6 months.... Wow....
I never realized the development timelines were that short. I always figured a project per year...

Quotethere were no compilers back then. C wasn't really that big

And all in assembler. Doubly impressive

Wlecome aboard the crazy train. Looking foward to anything you come up with

Arkhan Asylum · 12/04/2013, 11:53 AM

Hey, when you're getting paid to sit and do this, it's easier to crank stuff out!

Yeah, westwood, are you going to make some turbo stuff again?

We've got easier ways to make music now. Way easier!

westwood68 · 12/12/2013, 11:15 AM

Just as a quick update, I have dug out the disks but cannot get anything to read at the moment. I do suspect however that this is not down to the disks but down the my knackered old 3.5 drive that is creaking away desperately..

I'm going to go to the local parts supplier this weekend to get a new one so hopefully things will go a lot better when I drag that out.

I think I will end up putting the data on a public section of my ftp site as I also have a lot of source code for other old systems to upload as well.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/12/2013, 02:15 PM

sweet.

Thanks for the update!

I was actually going to post to ask about how this was going, so you beat me to it.

jeffhlewis · 12/12/2013, 06:07 PM

Quote from: westwood68 on 12/12/2013, 11:15 AMJust as a quick update, I have dug out the disks but cannot get anything to read at the moment. I do suspect however that this is not down to the disks but down the my knackered old 3.5 drive that is creaking away desperately..

I'm going to go to the local parts supplier this weekend to get a new one so hopefully things will go a lot better when I drag that out.

I think I will end up putting the data on a public section of my ftp site as I also have a lot of source code for other old systems to upload as well.

If you're having issues finding a 3.5" drive, feel free to ask - there's lots of folks around here who could probably lend one.

SuperPlay · 12/15/2013, 03:46 PM

Sounds like you are in the UK, if so and you still need a drive send me a PM with you details and I will get one out to you as I have a stack of these.

On a side-note: Were Code Monkeys Ltd. not also involved in GunBoat / Turrican ?

esteban · 12/15/2013, 06:28 PM

Quote from: westwood68 on 12/12/2013, 11:15 AMJust as a quick update, I have dug out the disks but cannot get anything to read at the moment. I do suspect however that this is not down to the disks but down the my knackered old 3.5 drive that is creaking away desperately..

I'm going to go to the local parts supplier this weekend to get a new one so hopefully things will go a lot better when I drag that out.

I think I will end up putting the data on a public section of my ftp site as I also have a lot of source code for other old systems to upload as well.

Comrade thanks for the update and I enjoyed reading your responses to all those questions I bugged you with.

Good luck resurrecting the old floppies/drives.

'Tis the season for resurrection.

westwood68 · 01/06/2014, 12:06 PM

Hi All, well after much pain (and three broken floppy drives!). I now have the stuff I needed and will talk with the Internet Archive guys to get the source available on-line. If I have no luck I will probably just put them on my own website for the time being.

The two games for the pc engine were indeed Turrican/Gunboat so I have an archive for each. (Not to mention a lot of Gameboy source as well....now which is the best GB dev site I wonder..)

Cheers

esteban · 01/06/2014, 06:09 PM

Quote from: westwood68 on 01/06/2014, 12:06 PMHi All, well after much pain (and three broken floppy drives!). I now have the stuff I needed and will talk with the Internet Archive guys to get the source available on-line. If I have no luck I will probably just put them on my own website for the time being.

The two games for the pc engine were indeed Turrican/Gunboat so I have an archive for each. (Not to mention a lot of Gameboy source as well....now which is the best GB dev site I wonder..)

Cheers

Splendid.

roflmao · 01/07/2014, 01:29 AM

Awesome news! I'd be happy to mirror the files and I'm sure others here would be willing as well.

Lochlan · 01/25/2014, 07:15 PM

Quote from: westwood68 on 01/06/2014, 12:06 PMHi All, well after much pain (and three broken floppy drives!). I now have the stuff I needed and will talk with the Internet Archive guys to get the source available on-line. If I have no luck I will probably just put them on my own website for the time being.

What about putting your code onto GitHub? It would be a nice publicly-accessible backup, not to mention an easy way to clone or fork your code.

Psycho Punch · 03/23/2014, 12:00 PM

Where is the code? I would like to see what can be done with it.

lwizardl · 04/20/2014, 07:12 PM

Very awesome news here, i just found this thread and would love to look at the source code for the old games! love that stuff.

Also to westwood68 if you need it I have a USB floppy drive I would be willing to load ya to read the disks if your having problems. Just an offer because your trying to help out the fans by giving the source code out it would be the least i could do.

James

bonq · 07/31/2014, 11:39 AM

what happened on this? Any update?

westwood68 where are you..?

-bonq

esteban · 07/31/2014, 04:45 PM

WESTWOOD68!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psycho Punch · 07/31/2014, 07:05 PM

Boss!! Whear's that source code you promised?!

TheClash603 · 07/31/2014, 10:06 PM

I never saw this thread until now. I don't know anything about programing, but I do hope the source code gets uploaded for you programing types.

What is incredibly interesting is the fact that it took 2 guys 20 weeks to program the conversions. That is really impressive.

NightWolve · 08/01/2014, 12:35 AM

Yeah, same here, didn't notice this thread till now. Guess there's no point since that code never made it anywhere though. Still interesting to have heard some of his programming history at least.

elmer · 12/30/2014, 10:28 PM

There are a lot of us old folks from the early days still out there ... still with archives gathering dust ... still interested in programming, but with no desire to get that exciting "cease-and-desist" letter that the big guys send out.

It's great to see that some of the old programmer's that actually retained the rights to their code are releasing stuff ... but for the rest of us ... work-for-hire means that we don't have the rights to just upload it, however old it is. :-(

Sadler · 12/30/2014, 11:42 PM

Wow. I can't believe I missed this, amazing stuff here.

Quote from: westwood68 on 12/04/2013, 08:11 AM
Quote from: esteban on 12/03/2013, 06:21 PM(5) do you remember any particularly challenging/annoying/duh! Moments.....
Late nights fixing bugs and getting the character based screen of the PC to do 3D was a challenge; mainly because of lack of knowledge and experience. There is so much 3D around these days it would be much easier. And lack of video ram for the graphics of course. That was always an issue

I realize there's a 0.no % chance of this getting answered, but I'd love to hear more about this. By "character based screen" I'm guessing you are referring to sprite/tile based hardware. How did you overcome this? My vague recollection from the era DOS side to draw filled polygons basically boiled down to fmemset or 32-bit equivalents and sequentially drawing horizontal lines of the polygon. How were you pulling this off on the PC Engine? How did you handle a depth buffer? Painter's algorithm? God, so many questions. How did you sort? Radix? How were you approximating floating point? Real ignorance of the era: were trig functions all LUTs or were there maclaurin approximates possible?

Quote
Quote from: esteban on 12/03/2013, 06:21 PM( what do you love? What do you enjoy?
Same as most on this bit of the forum;Programming. That's why I started and that's why I'm still doing it.

EDIT and damn, I can't shake the feeling I've asked about this before, have had the answers laid out to me in detail and have simply forgotten. I have a lot of respect for the guys doing dev on this forum, I apologize if we've covered this before. Please forgive me.

elmer · 12/31/2014, 01:03 PM

Quote from: guest on 12/30/2014, 10:44 PMI command thee. Upload thine code.

Sorry. I'm thinking of putting some of my 8-bit source together, but you probably wouldn't be interested in the platforms ... old 80's home computers, and this isn't the right place for those.

For anything more modern, there are still legal successors, or active NDAs with existing companies that are still in place.

Just like westwood68 ... when you've been in the industry for a while (and it sounds like he only left a few years ago), there are a lot of goodies to share someday, but you don't want to piss off Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft or any of the big publishers with bored on-staff lawyers.

That's one of the nice things about the PCE ... it's manufacturer isn't in the game business anymore!

Lots of developer's old source code will eventually get out there ... and there will be a record of the early days for historians, but it's just going to take time (years).

Something that may happen sooner is old folks retiring and writing new stuff for the old platforms ... for fun.

NecroPhile · 12/31/2014, 01:26 PM

Quote from: elmer on 12/31/2014, 01:03 PMSomething that may happen sooner is old folks retiring and writing new stuff for the old platforms ... for fun.

That's even better.

esteban · 02/07/2015, 02:59 PM

Just curious is westwood68 if still thinking about sharing any other memories/anecdotes with us!

Old Source code

westwood68

_{Arkhan Asylum}

_{Psycho Punch}

_NecroPhile

jeffhlewis

westwood68

westwood68

OldMan

_{Arkhan Asylum}

Arjak

_{Psycho Punch}

esteban

westwood68

westwood68

westwood68

_NecroPhile

OldMan

_{Arkhan Asylum}

westwood68

_{Arkhan Asylum}

jeffhlewis

SuperPlay

esteban

westwood68

esteban

_roflmao

Lochlan

_{Psycho Punch}

lwizardl

bonq

esteban

_{Psycho Punch}

TheClash603

NightWolve

_elmer

Sadler

_elmer

_NecroPhile

esteban