Rondo of Blood Thread

[PukeSter]

Wow, such a good game. 

It's quite a masterpiece of game design. Whole game, looks, sounds and plays amazing.

Presentation is of a league of it's own.

I've gotten 100%, and still feel like doing more. Maria!

One of my favorite levels is Stage 5. Nice long ship level, with a great boss fight.

Though, every level is my favorite. ;)

[Tatsujin]

Wow, such a good game. 

[esteban]

I have heard Good Things about Rondo of Castlevania.

[gbapalyer]

i own the game since 2 years and i never played it...shame on me, but iam to busy with my RPGs at the moment.

[Tatsujin]

 

[wildfruit]

He who doth not use should sell 💱💹

Sent from my Lumia 520 on Scabb Island using Tapatalk

[ccovell]

My favourite stage is Stage 4, since it feels like a living, breathing dungeon:  You can follow the rolling balls down the hole and along their path back up again to the dude who throws them.  Classy.

[Tatsujin]

soo much "unnecessary" stuff to discover.

[PukeSter]

My favourite stage is Stage 4, since it feels like a living, breathing dungeon:  You can follow the rolling balls down the hole and along their path back up again to the dude who throws them.  Classy.

Or if you're Maria you can just double jump. ;)

I wonder why Dracula is so young?

[CrackTiger]

My favourite stage is Stage 4, since it feels like a living, breathing dungeon:  You can follow the rolling balls down the hole and along their path back up again to the dude who throws them.  Classy.

Or if you're Maria you can just double jump. ;)

I wonder why Dracula is so young?

He's a vampire.

[PukeSter]

My favourite stage is Stage 4, since it feels like a living, breathing dungeon:  You can follow the rolling balls down the hole and along their path back up again to the dude who throws them.  Classy.

Or if you're Maria you can just double jump. ;)

I wonder why Dracula is so young?

He's a vampire.

Yes, but...

He's older in the other games.

I find it funny that Dracula is way older in SOTN (takes place only a few years after, even has the goatee in the prologue)

[CrackTiger]

My favourite stage is Stage 4, since it feels like a living, breathing dungeon:  You can follow the rolling balls down the hole and along their path back up again to the dude who throws them.  Classy.

Or if you're Maria you can just double jump. ;)

I wonder why Dracula is so young?

He's a vampire.

Yes, but...

He's older in the other games.


I find it funny that Dracula is way older in SOTN (takes place only a few years after, even has the goatee in the prologue)

So what you meant was, "why does Dracula look older in games that came later?"

[PukeSter]

My favourite stage is Stage 4, since it feels like a living, breathing dungeon:  You can follow the rolling balls down the hole and along their path back up again to the dude who throws them.  Classy.

Or if you're Maria you can just double jump. ;)

I wonder why Dracula is so young?

He's a vampire.

Yes, but...

He's older in the other games.


I find it funny that Dracula is way older in SOTN (takes place only a few years after, even has the goatee in the prologue)

So what you meant was, "why does Dracula look older in games that came later?"

No earlier too...

[Nando]

i own the game since 2 years and i never played it...shame on me, but iam to busy with my RPGs at the moment.

[NecroPhile]

He's not human, thus normal aging and appearances do not apply.  Haven't you seen Bram Stoker's Dracula?

[CrackTiger]

My favourite stage is Stage 4, since it feels like a living, breathing dungeon:  You can follow the rolling balls down the hole and along their path back up again to the dude who throws them.  Classy.

Or if you're Maria you can just double jump. ;)

I wonder why Dracula is so young?

He's a vampire.

Yes, but...

He's older in the other games.

I find it funny that Dracula is way older in SOTN (takes place only a few years after, even has the goatee in the prologue)

So what you meant was, "why does Dracula look older in games that came later?"

No earlier too...

He was monstrous in the original and a ghost in Simon's Quest. Otherwise the NES, MD, SNES, PCE and X68k look similar off the top of my head.

[EvilEvoIX]

Wow, such a good game. 

It's quite a masterpiece of game design. Whole game, looks, sounds and plays amazing.

Presentation is of a league of it's own.

I've gotten 100%, and still feel like doing more. Maria!

One of my favorite levels is Stage 5. Nice long ship level, with a great boss fight.

Though, every level is my favorite. ;)

I disagree, so do most of the people on this site, rushed, poor grafx, terrible music.  The Legendary Ax II beats it on all fronts.

[FraGMarE]

Rondo is the most piss poor example of botched/rushed gameplay mechanics I've ever seen.  The animation is clunky, the hit detection is terrible, and the controls are not responsive at ALL.  The only saving grace WOULD be the redbook audio, but even that sounds like a drunken dwarf farting in an auditorium.  Just awful.  Night Creatures is infinitely better.

[bob]

Rondo is the most piss poor example of botched/rushed gameplay mechanics I've ever seen.  The animation is clunky, the hit detection is terrible, and the controls are not responsive at ALL.  The only saving grace WOULD be the redbook audio, but even that sounds like a drunken dwarf farting in an auditorium.  Just awful.  Night Creatures is infinitely better.

This joke was already attempted.

[JoshTurboTrollX]

This joke was already attempted.

Yet neither were funny.  You can joke about alot of things here at PCFX, but saying Rondo is an overrated or terrible game gets you put in the fucking SNERD closet for life.

Rondo for SCD usually gets ranked in my top 3 PCE/Turbo games and easily in my top 10 favorites of all times for all consoles.

[CrackTiger]

This joke was already attempted.

Yet neither were funny.  You can joke about alot of things here at PCFX, but saying Rondo is an overrated or terrible game gets you put in the fucking SNERD closet for life.

Rondo for SCD usually gets ranked in my top 3 PCE/Turbo games and easily in my top 10 favorites of all times for all consoles.

We do have a few of those non-jokers around here.

[munchiaz]

Rondo is one of the greatest games i have ever played in my whole Life. Konami left the level based castlevania games off with a bang. Its basically perfect.

[GohanX]

I'll go one step further and say it's the best game ever made. I need to get another real copy sometime soon.I saw one at a store recently but they wanted to much for a beat up copy.

[td741]

I will admit then when I first got Rondo back in the day I was initially disappointed.

The slideshow intro, the encounter with death, and initial stage before entering the castle seemed a little lackluster for all the hype the game was getting...

Of course, the changed as soon as I entered the castle...

[BlueBMW]

I really enjoyed Rondo, but for some reason I like the x68k Dracula just a hair more...  I think its has to do with the variety of music in the 68k game.  Either way though, Rondo is a masterpiece!

[Tatsujin]

I will admit then when I first got Rondo back in the day I was initially disappointed.

The slideshow intro, the encounter with death, and initial stage before entering the castle seemed a little lackluster for all the hype the game was getting...

Of course, the changed as soon as I entered the castle...

so when was that "back in the day" of yours?

the slideshow intro, the encounter with death, and initial stage (prologe) before entering the castle  was and still is something of the coolest and most stylish a game ever showed in the whole 90s. how can one get disappointed of a show from that great calibre?

[td741]

Back in the day was as close to release date as I could have gotten it. I was calling up the import store long distance every week to see if they got it yet.

I had to contend with an awful exchange rate, import fees, long wait for delivery while reading the few articles in magazines I could find.

When I finally got it, I was so hyped that I was let down by those first few moments of the game. It wasn't that I thought it that small chunk of the game sucked. It just wasn't as spectacular as I was expecting.

[Tatsujin]

ok..I was sheer killed by those first minutes of purest awesome just possible.

[FraGMarE]

This joke was already attempted.

Yet neither were funny.  You can joke about alot of things here at PCFX, but saying Rondo is an overrated or terrible game gets you put in the fucking SNERD closet for life.

Rondo for SCD usually gets ranked in my top 3 PCE/Turbo games and easily in my top 10 favorites of all times for all consoles.

Trollololol

Anyone who doesn't think Rondo is an incredible game needs admitted to a mental ward.  Of course it's awesome.  It's still one of the best, if the THE best, of the Castlevania games ever made... duh.

[bob]

Anyone who doesn't think Rondo is an incredible game needs admitted to a mental ward.  Of course it's awesome.  It's still one of the best, if the THE best, of the Castlevania games ever made... duh.

Yeah, "duh".

[PukeSter]

I will admit then when I first got Rondo back in the day I was initially disappointed.

The slideshow intro, the encounter with death, and initial stage before entering the castle seemed a little lackluster for all the hype the game was getting...

Of course, the changed as soon as I entered the castle...

so when was that "back in the day" of yours?

the slideshow intro, the encounter with death, and initial stage (prologe) before entering the castle  was and still is something of the coolest and most stylish a game ever showed in the whole 90s. how can one get disappointed of a show from that great calibre?

Probably lack of 8 way whip from Super Castlevania IV, even though Rondo has an awesome backflip move.

How I view the 16-bit Castlevanias.

Rondo>Bloodlines>Super IV.

[Tatsujin]

How I view the 16-bit Castlevanias.

Rondo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bloodlines>Super IV.

agreed

[PukeSter]

How I view the 16-bit Castlevanias.

Rondo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bloodlines>Super IV.

agreed

Nah, how about a compromise?

Rondo>>>>>Bloodlines>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Super IV.

[Tatsujin]

How I view the 16-bit Castlevanias.

Rondo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bloodlines>Super IV.

agreed

Nah, how about a compromise?

Rondo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bloodlines>>>>>Super IV.

ok

[awack]

Back in 1999 I had a lot of what many would consider the best games for the Genesis and SNES, a few hucards and cd some imports for the pcengine, then one day that year I saw one of my friends playing SOTN, I said to myself holy doodoo, the special fx were amazing....I started collecting games again, Gensis, SNES and pcengine games,  obviously nothing had the flair of SOTN, then I soon found out about Rondo, I thought to myself that its not going to have any of that flair or flash of SOTN, because no snes, pce or genesis game had, had
 those kinda animated fx, boy, was I wrong, I couldn't believe it, it had retained dozens of animated special fx.

Then I learned about the snes port and thought, well lets see how this stuff turned out on that system, and of course it was neutered, the snes just couldn't reproduce those animations, nor could the GBA, it wouldn't be until the Nintendo DS that we would see the same quality of animation,.

Its pretty close to being an objective fact that Rondo has the best animated fx between the three major 16bit systems, (enemy burst into flame fx, dracs orb attack, dracs fire attack, shafts lightning,etc, etc, etc) I believe this because other systems(gen,snes) tried and failed at trying to reproduce these fx(at least the snes) and most importantly, what other game has its special fx animations still being used pixel for pixel in games to this day.

So if some one ask you what your favorite system is and you say the pcengine, and they ask what so great about the pcengine, tell them that it produced the best special fx of its generation.

[PukeSter]

Speaking of Dracula x, how is the cart over $100? Everyone knows it isn't as good as rondo.

Snes gouging sucks.

Pc engine is my favorite. Just bc all the arcade ports and unique action games.

Pce does have nice special fx, like all the shooties. But no scaling and rotation.

EDIT: Forgot about the warping and disintegration effects.

[CrackTiger]

Speaking of Dracula x, how is the cart over $100? Everyone knows it isn't as good as rondo.

Snes gouging sucks.

Collectible prices aren't based on quality, they're based on collectibility.

Pc engine is my favorite. Just bc all the arcade ports and unique action games.

Pce does have nice special fx, like all the shooties. But no scaling and rotation.

EDIT: Forgot about the warping and disintegration effects.

That would be a pro, but unfortunately PCE games do feature lots of scaling, rotation, 3D, morphing, transparencies, etc (Rondo of Blood features impossible-with-Mode 7 scaling and rotating sprites for example).

[jperryss]

That would be a pro, but unfortunately PCE games do feature lots of scaling, rotation, 3D, morphing, transparencies, etc (Rondo of Blood features impossible-with-Mode 7 scaling and rotating sprites for example).

Where? Honest (and possibly dumb) question.

[Otaking]

How I view the 16-bit Castlevanias.

Rondo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bloodlines>Super IV.

agreed

Nah, how about a compromise?

Rondo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bloodlines>>>>>Super IV.

ok

Fixed for truth

Rondo>>>>Super IV>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bloodlines>Dracula XX
 

[CrackTiger]

That would be a pro, but unfortunately PCE games do feature lots of scaling, rotation, 3D, morphing, transparencies, etc (Rondo of Blood features impossible-with-Mode 7 scaling and rotating sprites for example).

Where? Honest (and possibly dumb) question.

Death boss fight.

[spenoza]

See, if you just draw the rotated and scaled frames individually, that's not actually scaling and rotation. That's like the "3D" in Sapphire. Sure, it looks good and qualifies as solid animation, but scaling and rotation is something that is calculated on-the-fly.

[PukeSter]

See, if you just draw the rotated and scaled frames individually, that's not actually scaling and rotation. That's like the "3D" in Sapphire. Sure, it looks good and qualifies as solid animation, but scaling and rotation is something that is calculated on-the-fly.

Like Jigoku Meguri?

There are these weird rolling head enemies. In the arcade, they actually rotate, but the PCE version has a few "rolling" frames of animation, so it is choppier.

[CrackTiger]

See, if you just draw the rotated and scaled frames individually, that's not actually scaling and rotation. That's like the "3D" in Sapphire. Sure, it looks good and qualifies as solid animation, but scaling and rotation is something that is calculated on-the-fly.

Scaling and rotation are literally scaling and rotation. Real-time/hardware rendered versions of misc effects are "real-time" or "hardware rendered", but no more "scaling" or "rotating". The fact that most SNES fanboys count lots of pre-rendered and non-S/R (see Axelay) effects as "Mode 7" rendered, only drives the point home further. The Genesis has hardware support for real-time transparencies, but you rarely hear retro game fans acknowledge it as such because of this kind of semantics (which tend to be based around a SNES fanboy perspective).

Hardware rendered effects aren't perfectly smooth either, they can be incredibly choppy or silky smooth. The fact that they are or aren't rendered in real-time is independent from the fact that they are scaling/rotating effects.

The SNES is extremely limited or specific in its S/R ability. It can only S/R a single tile layer within specific conditions. It can't do multiple objects or sprites. It hurt game design more often than aided it as developers abused it as filler or designed sections around a checklist of hardware rendered effects instead of designing good stages and then looked to see if the hardware could assist their ideas. The kind of 3D floor effect seen in Super Mario Kart was a genuine new kind of (short lived) gameplay and the best use of "Mode 7", but it isn't simply a hardware-rendered real-time scaling/rotation effect. It also uses raster (and line scrolling/h-sync?) effects. Unfortunately, this effects combo was also abused for filler more than for gameplay.

If you're using scaling and/or rotation completely as a simple visual effect, like Bowser blowing up big in Super Mario World, does it matter if it's an equal number of framers and clarity on a hardware-supported console or pre-rendered on another? Or if it's half the frames with double the clarity when pre-rendered? What would be the difference if you found out tomorrow that the GoT 4-in-1's Super CD screen scaling and rotation was actually rendered by a previously undocumented hardware feature of the PCE CD-ROM?

Mode 7 and any other hardware rendered real-time effects aren't actually a legion of tiny gnomes living in your picture box carrying around a large picture and moving it closer to your eyes and tilting it for you either. It's only rendering frames of animation, often cobbled together from swatches of artwork. Same with so-called "real parallax" which is rendered using multiple tile layers.  It's only real or not in your mind and those tile layers aren't giant paintings like multiplane camera effects in animated films (which still repeat a single background image if it continues long enough). They're an illusion of a piece of artwork which is actually tiled together from swatches of graphics and is all only rendering frames of animation which flash across your TV screen.

[roflmao]

I kinda agree with BT here, but having hardware capable of doing s/r does seem pretty cool. 

What about Star Parodier?  After you beat a boss, a lot of times they zoom into the screen.  Is that proper hardware scaling (as I always imagined it to be) or is that pre-rendered sprites?  Howabout the Gates of Thunder disc?  They are definitely showing off scaling and rotation when you start it up.  Is that all pre-rendered?  I honestly don't know and am now curious.

[Tatsujin]

S/R can be even accomplished on a c64 (few cool demos showed it), it's all about programing techniques and how it can be dispalyed in a simple way.
as BT stated, the SFC/SNES could only S/R one tile or BG plane at once, made it completely incapable to reproduce stuff like for example the super scaler games from sega like space harrier etc.

you can even see that in F-Zero or Mario Kart, that they used the mode-7 for the street/flat environment (playfield) and had to sprite animate all the other objects like drivers, osbtacles, weapons etc. since the SFC is to weak to S/R everything. I would call it even weaker than the MD and PCE in that matter.

now look at stuff like on the x68k, which can reproduce almost 1:1 sega arcade supersaclaer stuff like the super hang on and thunder blade, with all the simultaneous S/R of any objects/sprites/BGs/tiles onscreen, even the x68k has absolutely no hardware S/R ability, its calculating speed was that high that it just could manage such tasks on the fly.

[CrackTiger]

I kinda agree with BT here, but having hardware capable of doing s/r does seem pretty cool. 

What about Star Parodier?  After you beat a boss, a lot of times they zoom into the screen.  Is that proper hardware scaling (as I always imagined it to be) or is that pre-rendered sprites?  Howabout the Gates of Thunder disc?  They are definitely showing off scaling and rotation when you start it up.  Is that all pre-rendered?  I honestly don't know and am now curious.

The post-stage pics from Star Parodia use a scaling effect nicknamed "mosaic". New Adventure Island and Cosmic Fantasy 4 also do full screen mosaic effects.

Hardware effects are neat, but looking at what happened with the SFC, I think that the creativity shown in PCE games would have been stifled and we wouldn't have wound up with the unique library that we love.

Same with Neo Geo. It wouldn't be the same if it could do 3D and other effects besides sprite shrinking. Just look at the Hyper Neo Geo 64. Would you rather have more of that or the art-heavy kind of content we got with the regular Neo Geo?

It's bad enough that too many PCE games feature pixelization as an effect as it is.

[awack]

Hardware scaling like in snes games would have  ruined rondo of blood, a lot of  snes scaling looks like pixilated pieces of paper coming closer or moving away from the screen there is no change in color or detail and it gets more and more pixilated as it draws closer to the screen, if you look at sapphire the game was able to redraw each frame and recolor as an object got closer to the screen, so aesthetically it looks much better than most snes type scaling, though not as smooth of course.

here are some scaling, rotation and spinning that's found in rondo, most of this stuff was dropped all together in Dracula xx, or downgraded with less frames due to not enough memory, if you look at the cyths with16 frames those are all unique frames which is why it looks so good in game.

[Tatsujin]

100% trueness!!

I rememer the first time playing drac x when the 1st level dragon all sudden super scary stylish animatezoomed from the back ground into the screen accompanied with that creepy dragon scream/noise. now that was a scare I have yet to experience on any other 16-bit platforms!!

a cheap mode-7 zoom instead like used in so many snes games would have ruined that scene totally!!

[bob]

What about the zoom/scale when picking a game on the GOT 3 in 1. Comin' at ya!

[PukeSter]

Hardware effects are neat, but looking at what happened with the SFC, I think that the creativity shown in PCE games would have been stifled and we wouldn't have wound up with the unique library that we love.

I understand this statement, and there were certainly instances like this. Super ghouls n ghosts was not as good as ghouls n ghosts genesis, and effects made it even harder to play.

However, better hardware effects/chips also help with a game.

Yoshi's island is a great example. The super fx chip and other effects help to bring the warm, colorful world really to life.

Star fox has 3d that hasn't aged well, but there were many exciting level designs possible because of it. Entering the enemy tunnel and shooting the core in stage 3 is an epic moment with great buildup.

Heck, f-zero plays rather well still thanks to mode 7. Mode 7 was abused for title screens, but really made racing games more fun and fluid.

Not all snes games were stifled. Some cases, the effects embraced the creativity.