PCE CD ROM Not Reading CDRs

[GohanX]

I'm having a little issue with one of my CD drives, it doesn't seem to want to read CDR games. Now, I mostly play originals, which play fine, but I would really like to play the Dracula X and Ys 4 translations.

The weird thing is that if I put the disc in and play it as an audio CD it will play the audio tracks just fine, but when I press RUN to start the game it just hangs. I've tried reburning the disc onto Taiyo Yudens, with no luck. The same disc works fine in my Turbo CD drive.

Is there anything I can do? I was wondering if adjusting any of the pots would have any effect, but I didn't want to go in there and start adjusting blindly, and most of the threads I found while searching talked about adjusting a Duo laser, and not the regular PCE drive.

[NightWolve]

I'd try some other CD-R brands first before messing with those pots. Make sure to burn them at the slowest possible speed that your burner allows as well.

[Tatsujin]

Pro tip: don't use CD-R's at all

[NecroPhile]

Pro tip: don't use CD-R's at all

How else is he going to play translations?  Emulator?  Fuck that.

[GohanX]

I'd try some other CD-R brands first before messing with those pots. Make sure to burn them at the slowest possible speed that your burner allows as well.

The first one I tried was some crappy generic kind, then I went straight for Taiyo Yudens. No joy. Burned at 4x, the slowest my drive can go. I do have some Memorex Lightscribe discs laying around that I could try.

[Tatsujin]

Pro tip: don't use CD-R's at all

How else is he going to play translations?  Emulator?  Fuck that.

one can't have both..working 25year old CD-ROMs on CD-R steroids and translations. one must decide.

[jperryss]

one can't have both..working 25year old CD-ROMs on CD-R steroids and translations. one must decide.

Many of us have been doing just that for years.

[bishopcruz]

Well, my Drac X translation seems to be working fine on my newish Duo. The 3-in-1 disc not so much, music cut out at points in Gates of Thunder for example. Gonna try my Xak III burn soon and see how that goes.

[Keith Courage]

Lots of times when audio tracks cut out it is due to a bad game rip. Meaning someone did not use turborip.

[GohanX]

I was talking to Steve in chat, and I seem to have fixed it. I adjusted the pot on the laser just a hair, and the Drac X CDR loads perfectly. It may be my imagination, but I think the load times on real CDs are a hair faster as well.

[ClodBusted]

I'm only familiar with the Turbo Duo, but I still would like to know, which of the pots have been adjusted?

Since I'm experiencing a similar issue with my Duo: It refuses to load burned media (tried different CD-R brands and burning devices) that I ripped from my original copy of Ys 4 using Turbo Rip. The system startup screen then shows a place disc error or load disc error.

Heck, even with the original CDs, my Duo sometimes has trouble reading them. This manifests in not being able to advance from the game's title screen or sudden muting of CD BGM, until the next song is selected by the game.

The Turbo Duo has been fully recapped recently. All original discs are in flawless condition. The laser lens itself has been cleaned.

Just in case, I've already a replacement HOP-M3 laser pickup unit ready amongst my spares. But beforehand I would like to know if some pot adjustments might be able to solve my problem.

[Keith Courage]

On a DUO I would try turning the V102 Pot counter clockwise just slightly. Also, make sure to clean that lens and clean any dirt off of the lens rails.

[ClodBusted]

Thanks, I'm looking forward to give it a try. I've also been reading through the Duo laser replacement/pot adjustment guide. I'll have a printed copy of that guide right next to me when I'm doing the repair.

[NightWolve]

I was talking to Steve in chat, and I seem to have fixed it. I adjusted the pot on the laser just a hair, and the Drac X CDR loads perfectly. It may be my imagination, but I think the load times on real CDs are a hair faster as well.

Ah awesome, risky, but glad it worked out. If you had steve as copilot, odds were more in your favor of course. ;) The other protip is the regreasing of the slider pole for what Keith mentioned. When redbook audio tracks cut out and don't resume until the next scene change, event, etc. or reboot, it's time to get that 20+ year old grease off and apply some fresh white lithium type on. Restore the agility of the laser for its sliding. Too much friction, you start to get the skips, misreads, etc.

[GohanX]

It actually had some fresh grease on it, and when I bought it I was told it had one of Keith's replacement gears on it. Sure enough, new gear, new grease. If the laser holds out this thing should be good for a long time.

[bishopcruz]

I was talking to Steve in chat, and I seem to have fixed it. I adjusted the pot on the laser just a hair, and the Drac X CDR loads perfectly. It may be my imagination, but I think the load times on real CDs are a hair faster as well.

Ah awesome, risky, but glad it worked out. If you had steve as copilot, odds were more in your favor of course. ;) The other protip is the regreasing of the slider pole for what Keith mentioned. When redbook audio tracks cut out and don't resume until the next scene change, event, etc. or reboot, it's time to get that 20+ year old grease off and apply some fresh white lithium type on. Restore the agility of the laser for its sliding. Too much friction, you start to get the skips, misreads, etc.

Missed this before, guess I'll have to track down some grease. See if that helps. It's happening on some of my burns, and on Ys III which is a bit scratched but played fine on my old setup decades ago. My Cosmic Fantasy II won't load at all. I might just get them resurfaced and see if that helps.

[Bernie]

I just use bacon grease. 

[wolfman]

Yesterday I tried a CDR (EMTEC brand) on my CDROM2, but it refused to play at all...the lowest I can go on my writer is 10x

Lens is clean...gear lubed, gears run smoothly. And plays Originals....

[esadajr]

With my DuoR I had a similar issue along with (barely noticeable) bands on the video. After I replaced the AC adapter, the bands were gone and it played all CDRs again. Still I limit the CDR playing to translations and fancy stuff like good ol Sapphy.

[bishopcruz]

How complicated is greasing the gears? I saw one thing online for the original separate unit and it seemed like a real pita. Is it easier on the Duo?

[Bernie]

Yesterday I tried a CDR (EMTEC brand) on my CDROM2, but it refused to play at all...the lowest I can go on my writer is 10x

Lens is clean...gear lubed, gears run smoothly. And plays Originals....

With these machines, its a pot shot on whether they will play CDr or not.  SOme will play whatever you throw at em, some will play certain burns with certain discs, and I have had some just refuse to do shit with the burned discs, no matter what I do.  Now, I HAVE had the laser go too far on the black Duos, and had to take it apart to fix it, which was fairly easy.  I think only the black Duos had this issue though.  I guess the best thing to remember, is you are trying to get a machine to read/do something that wasn't intended or even around for that matter, at that time.

[wolfman]

Now, I HAVE had the laser go too far on the black Duos, and had to take it apart to fix it, which was fairly easy.

What do you mean with "go too far"?

[NecroPhile]

They can go too far down the sled trying to find the outer edge of the disc and get stuck, needing a nudge back towards center.

[wolfman]

Yes, Ive having that problem too on the drive I am repairing @ the moment. When the laser finds it is not at the center when the drive powers up it goess right to the edge until I press PLAY. Then it moves to centre and finds disc, finally spinning up. My other drive however doesnt show this kind of behaviour...I am thinking about putting a limit switch on the outer edge....

Does someone know whats causing this behaviour?

[thesteve]

If its moving before hitting play/run then you have an open feedback loop on the board (servo circuit)
 2

[wolfman]

If its moving before hitting play/run then you have an open feedback loop on the board (servo circuit)
 2

Where would you look for that exactly?
Strange thing is, it doesn´t do that always. Didn´t find a pattern when, though.

[wolfman]

If its moving before hitting play/run then you have an open feedback loop on the board (servo circuit)
 2

Do you mean one of the resistors surrounding the BA6290 is probably blown? Would that cause an open feedback loop?

[TurboXray]

Yesterday I tried a CDR (EMTEC brand) on my CDROM2, but it refused to play at all...the lowest I can go on my writer is 10x

Lens is clean...gear lubed, gears run smoothly. And plays Originals....

I have the original brief case model setup as well, and it doesn't like CD-Rs much. I only bought that model because I thought it looked cool. For actually playing stuffs, I use my trusty SuperCDROM^2 unit. Plays everything under the sun.

 As far as the Black Duo units getting the 'parked laser' issue, that's probably a bug in the firmware side of the CD setup. The laser module (on rails) goes too far to the right and the motor wedges it in there tight. It can't unwedge it though, so you have to rotate the spindle that module is on - manually. This only seemed to happen with really cheap CD-Rs, from my experience.

 As for burning, the slowest speed doesn't always produce the best CD-R results for the PCe CD systems. I've have a burner that only produced working CD-Rs for the CD unit, if you burned at 16x or higher. If I burned at 8x (the lowest), they would hardly work on the PCECD units. Just goes to show, not all burners are equal; you need to experiment with different settings.

[bishopcruz]

Yesterday I tried a CDR (EMTEC brand) on my CDROM2, but it refused to play at all...the lowest I can go on my writer is 10x

Lens is clean...gear lubed, gears run smoothly. And plays Originals....

As far as the Black Duo units getting the 'parked laser' issue, that's probably a bug in the firmware side of the CD setup. The laser module (on rails) goes too far to the right and the motor wedges it in there tight. It can't unwedge it though, so you have to rotate the spindle that module is on - manually. This only seemed to happen with really cheap CD-Rs, from my experience.

 As for burning, the slowest speed doesn't always produce the best CD-R results for the PCe CD systems. I've have a burner that only produced working CD-Rs for the CD unit, if you burned at 16x or higher. If I burned at 8x (the lowest), they would hardly work on the PCECD units. Just goes to show, not all burners are equal; you need to experiment with different settings.

Good to know. I'm thinking of ordering some MAM A's that are 74min. A little more expensive than the usual, but not too bad overall. Sadly can't lightscribe them though, which makes me sad. Still my CD-ROM is useless until I get my Torx t10 screwdriver in.

[TurboXray]

There's the option of having professional CD-Rs done. Though this would have to be a group order, to keep the cost down. Professional CD-R replication is for short runs, but there are companies that offer this service for older embedded systems that have a harder time reading newer burned CD-Rs. It's not as fancy as pressing a CD, but it's a higher grade generation than simply using off the shelf CD-Rs and a consumer grade burner. Plus, you can get them ink'd on the top (whatever image you want).

 Not a bad choice if people wanted to do a small run of translations or such (non-profit, just the total cost of the smallest batch split between members).

[Bernie]

There's the option of having professional CD-Rs done. Though this would have to be a group order, to keep the cost down. Professional CD-R replication is for short runs, but there are companies that offer this service for older embedded systems that have a harder time reading newer burned CD-Rs. It's not as fancy as pressing a CD, but it's a higher grade generation than simply using off the shelf CD-Rs and a consumer grade burner. Plus, you can get them ink'd on the top (whatever image you want).

 Not a bad choice if people wanted to do a small run of translations or such (non-profit, just the total cost of the smallest batch split between members).

THIS!!!

[wolfman]

There's the option of having professional CD-Rs done. Though this would have to be a group order, to keep the cost down. Professional CD-R replication is for short runs, but there are companies that offer this service for older embedded systems that have a harder time reading newer burned CD-Rs. It's not as fancy as pressing a CD, but it's a higher grade generation than simply using off the shelf CD-Rs and a consumer grade burner. Plus, you can get them ink'd on the top (whatever image you want).

 Not a bad choice if people wanted to do a small run of translations or such (non-profit, just the total cost of the smallest batch split between members).

THIS!!!

Don´t say it too loud...I can see it coming on Ebay...like it did with short runs of VB games (Faceball, to name only one). Shortly afterwards they surface for 200+ on Ebay as "rare". Lol, yeah.

But anyway - cool idea - I would instantly buy a CIB set just to have a translation. 

[bishopcruz]

There's the option of having professional CD-Rs done. Though this would have to be a group order, to keep the cost down. Professional CD-R replication is for short runs, but there are companies that offer this service for older embedded systems that have a harder time reading newer burned CD-Rs. It's not as fancy as pressing a CD, but it's a higher grade generation than simply using off the shelf CD-Rs and a consumer grade burner. Plus, you can get them ink'd on the top (whatever image you want).

 Not a bad choice if people wanted to do a small run of translations or such (non-profit, just the total cost of the smallest batch split between members).

THIS!!!

Don´t say it too loud...I can see it coming on Ebay...like it did with short runs of VB games (Faceball, to name only one). Shortly afterwards they surface for 200+ on Ebay as "rare". Lol, yeah.

But anyway - cool idea - I would instantly buy a CIB set just to have a translation. 

To be fair if we're the assholes doing it, at least we're the ones making a profit. 

But for personal use these would be pretty cool, a professionally pressed Ys IV with manual and full dub could be kinda neat, I know repros are popular, but I assume that is because you need them to play on real hardware sans a flash cart. Hell, we could even do cool labels for Fantasy Star Soldier, Xak III and the like.

[wolfman]

There's the option of having professional CD-Rs done. Though this would have to be a group order, to keep the cost down. Professional CD-R replication is for short runs, but there are companies that offer this service for older embedded systems that have a harder time reading newer burned CD-Rs. It's not as fancy as pressing a CD, but it's a higher grade generation than simply using off the shelf CD-Rs and a consumer grade burner. Plus, you can get them ink'd on the top (whatever image you want).

 Not a bad choice if people wanted to do a small run of translations or such (non-profit, just the total cost of the smallest batch split between members).

THIS!!!

Don´t say it too loud...I can see it coming on Ebay...like it did with short runs of VB games (Faceball, to name only one). Shortly afterwards they surface for 200+ on Ebay as "rare". Lol, yeah.

But anyway - cool idea - I would instantly buy a CIB set just to have a translation. 

To be fair if we're the assholes doing it, at least we're the ones making a profit. 

But for personal use these would be pretty cool, a professionally pressed Ys IV with manual and full dub could be kinda neat, I know repros are popular, but I assume that is because you need them to play on real hardware sans a flash cart. Hell, we could even do cool labels for Fantasy Star Soldier, Xak III and the like.

I even would volunteer for dubbing a character...I´ve got the equipment at my hands to do it...in case somebody is interested. And adding a foreign accent to a game character can be fun and adds up atmosphere 

[Fidde_se]

There is also the more High-End CD-Rs when only the best is good enough, if you are backing up your own discs and verifies each step bit for bit, it's still not as good pressed and lets not forget all pressed discs are not equally made, a really good burn is better then the cheapest backalley pressed ones.

And a note, biwax is used on cds, pressed and cd-r as when in production it's made by machines and it's going fast, it's there as a layer to see through that the discs don't stick together and can be separated.

Before a disc is copied that should be removed, washed gently in soap and hot water or by ultrasonic cleaning, actually a cd-r chould have this done before burned too but you might make more marks in the surface then the biwax distorted the surface.....

Pressed discs have a more scratch resistant acrylic layer, even cloth makes small marks on CDRs if you look at it under a microscope.

So a test take out a new disc in a cake, it looks clean as a whistle, now breath on it like you were about to clean it, weird marks and spots and whole areas becomes different looking, it's not as clean as it looks.....

Here's some real goodies when it comes to Gold CD-Rs

http://www.kmgdigitalinc.com/premium/gold-preservation-discs Kodak
http://www.mofi.com/product_p/udgcdr1.htm Ultradisc
http://www.mediasupply.com/mamgold.html Various

There has been a very good expensive one, I think it's was made by Kodak and it was at 40$ each,
a disc Deutch Grammophon used for final storage of some of their works in vaults, but seem unable to find it now.

The cheaper CD-Rs degrade in the dye in time while these have very low degradation rate, nearly non existent.

The absolute best is High Quality pressed Gold 24Karat CDs but they are very unusual, I only have one.

[bishopcruz]

There is also the more High-End CD-Rs when only the best is good enough, if you are backing up your own discs and verifies each step bit for bit, it's still not as good pressed and lets not forget all pressed discs are not equally made, a really good burn is better then the cheapest backalley pressed ones.

And a note, biwax is used on cds, pressed and cd-r as when in production it's made by machines and it's going fast, it's there as a layer to see through that the discs don't stick together and can be separated.

Before a disc is copied that should be removed, washed gently in soap and hot water or by ultrasonic cleaning, actually a cd-r chould have this done before burned too but you might make more marks in the surface then the biwax distorted the surface.....

Pressed discs have a more scratch resistant acrylic layer, even cloth makes small marks on CDRs if you look at it under a microscope.

So a test take out a new disc in a cake, it looks clean as a whistle, now breath on it like you were about to clean it, weird marks and spots and whole areas becomes different looking, it's not as clean as it looks.....

Here's some real goodies when it comes to Gold CD-Rs

http://www.kmgdigitalinc.com/premium/gold-preservation-discs Kodak
http://www.mofi.com/product_p/udgcdr1.htm Ultradisc
http://www.mediasupply.com/mamgold.html Various

There has been a very good expensive one, I think it's was made by Kodak and it was at 40$ each,
a disc Deutch Grammophon used for final storage of some of their works in vaults, but seem unable to find it now.

The cheaper CD-Rs degrade in the dye in time while these have very low degradation rate, nearly non existent.

The absolute best is High Quality pressed Gold 24Karat CDs but they are very unusual, I only have one.

Cool info.

I figure MAM-A Silver's should generally be fine though right? I hear they are not QUITE as nice as the gold ones, but should suit the purpose for backing up games, they claim to have a 100 year shelf life, not as nice as the 300+ of the golds, but still not bad.

[Fidde_se]

Nearly as good, the thing is that acrylic can have small cracks in them, were not talking visual cracks here, more in the molecular structure here, and it can let oxygen in and that can make the reflective surface oxidize, and the gold one does not. real pressed cds will all suffer from this in time let it be 20 or 300 years, but one day they all come to an end, should also note that by chemical standards nothing transparent exists, it's just something floating very very slowly so the plastic will go bad and drip away in time, acrylic moves slower then glass though....

Some early commercial pressed cds has developed CD Rot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_rot

Some early were even made with real silver, that oxides in just a decade.

And then there's the bronzing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_bronzing

I might have a CDV (mini laserdisc, multiplexed, analog version of videocd) that's also pressed in gold.

Some sleeves can make marks on discs too, by slowly leaving chemicals and oils, some petroleum based products just don't like each other, so the best storage ever for a cd was invented by Philips in the early eighties, the standard jewelcase, it's dark inside, nothing touches the surface while in it and makes handling it in such a way you never touch the surface, no reason to reinvent the wheel, the best perfect solution is already made.

[bishopcruz]

Nearly as good, the thing is that acrylic can have small cracks in them, were not talking visual cracks here, more in the molecular structure here, and it can let oxygen in and that can make the reflective surface oxidize, and the gold one does not. real pressed cds will all suffer from this in time let it be 20 or 300 years, but one day they all come to an end, should also note that by chemical standards nothing transparent exists, it's just something floating very very slowly so the plastic will go bad and drip away in time, acrylic moves slower then glass though....

Some early commercial pressed cds has developed CD Rot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_rot

Some early were even made with real silver, that oxides in just a decade.

And then there's the bronzing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_bronzing

I might have a CDV (mini laserdisc, multiplexed, analog version of videocd) that's also pressed in gold.

Some sleeves can make marks on discs too, by slowly leaving chemicals and oils, some petroleum based products just don't like each other, so the best storage ever for a cd was invented by Philips in the early eighties, the standard jewelcase, it's dark inside, nothing touches the surface while in it and makes handling it in such a way you never touch the surface, no reason to reinvent the wheel, the best perfect solution is already made.

Damn a lot of info there. Now I'm curious, have there been any reports of CD rot on PCE and Turbo CDs? That would suck a whole lot if it happened to them.

[Fidde_se]

Not that I have heard of, they're one of the absolute first in the business but seems to have used good Japanese pressing plants, most cds with rot or should I say I'v only heard of music cds getting it and only in Europe.

[ClodBusted]

Did actually anybody ever HAVE experienced "CD rot" on pressed media, or just HEARD about it?

I'm not talking about CD-R or LD.

[thesteve]

I had some music cd's rot
They were cought in a flood in 97 2

[wolfman]

I finally managed to get EMTEC CDRs to work with my drive - IMGburn did the trick. I burned 10x (slowest possible on my drive), and that was it. Its interesting to see what the software is responsible for! I´ve tried Nero, CD Burner XP and some other app to no avail.
Imgburn did the trick for me!

[Fidde_se]

ImgBurn has the lowest failure rate I have seen, I have moved over to it completely, except for some DC that will need DiscJuggler.

[Bernie]

I finally managed to get EMTEC CDRs to work with my drive - IMGburn did the trick. I burned 10x (slowest possible on my drive), and that was it. Its interesting to see what the software is responsible for! I´ve tried Nero, CD Burner XP and some other app to no avail.
Imgburn did the trick for me!

Yeah ImgBrn is a pretty good program, that appears to handle disc images fairly nicely.

[wolfman]

I finally managed to get EMTEC CDRs to work with my drive - IMGburn did the trick. I burned 10x (slowest possible on my drive), and that was it. Its interesting to see what the software is responsible for! I´ve tried Nero, CD Burner XP and some other app to no avail.
Imgburn did the trick for me!

Yeah ImgBrn is a pretty good program, that appears to handle disc images fairly nicely.

I recently acquired an old Mitsumi 4x CD-Recorder. It wouldn´t do DAO/SAO on IMGBurn, so I switched to Nero. No problemo with Nero, even offers 1x speed without any tweaks. Funny thing is, one drive plays the CDR made with Nero almost without errors, the other one doesn´t do it all.... 

[GohanX]

Did actually anybody ever HAVE experienced "CD rot" on pressed media, or just HEARD about it?

I'm not talking about CD-R or LD.

Not a CD, but I've had HD-DVDs that have experience rot. Apparently WB movies were prone to this due to crappy materials.

[NightWolve]

Warner Bros. had a bad batch of BluRays released that didn't work at all. I can tell you that. I got stuck with one for Superman: The Movie. They have a special phone number to replace them for free, but my case got screwed up. They first sent me a new f--king DVD of it! I put the bad BluRay in their envelope and sent it back after talking with them again about the mix up, I was assured they'd get it right this time, but months later I never got my replacement all cause some idiot originally reported a bad DVD so that's all that was mailed to me...