Is there an accurate list of launch games (TG-16) for USA ?

[Gentlegamer]

I wish we knew if the author iOS drawing completely from fist/9

wut

[esteban]

I wish we knew if the author iOS drawing completely from fist/9

wut

I fell asleep mid-sentence and posted that. Ha!

[Gentlegamer]

Better make your next post a good one for 15k!

[Anthony1]

Kool

Just one word of caution: you cannot simply add up the "data points", because, sadly, a single press release from Sega (or a single announcement/demo at a COMDEX or CES show) can be the source for multiple articles (Sega Power, multi-platform mags, Usenet groups, trade publications, etc.)

I'm not saying this to be annoying, I love what you are doing (I'm trying to archive TG-16 stuff, myself, into a sortable data table), but to help you with your analysis. 7

I wish we knew if the author was drawing completely from first-hand experience. That would be excellent.

Specifically, which of the 3 pieces of evidence do you think is the weakest ? The USA Today article, the Usenet post or the magazine article ? Did you actually read them fully ?

[spenoza]

Just one word of caution: you cannot simply add up the "data points", because, sadly, a single press release from Sega (or a single announcement/demo at a COMDEX or CES show) can be the source for multiple articles (Sega Power, multi-platform mags, Usenet groups, trade publications, etc.)

I'm not saying this to be annoying, I love what you are doing (I'm trying to archive TG-16 stuff, myself, into a sortable data table), but to help you with your analysis. 7

I wish we knew if the author was drawing completely from first-hand experience. That would be excellent.

Specifically, which of the 3 pieces of evidence do you think is the weakest ? The USA Today article, the Usenet post or the magazine article ? Did you actually read them fully ?

YI don't think he's crying foul on any of your sources for the Genesis launch list. He's just pointed out some of the facts of journalism: reporters love press releases because they can embellish them and Boom! they have an article and it took very little time and no independent reporting.

For example, if USA Today, the NY Times, and EGM all had articles running down the launch titles for a system and the lists match, that's better than nothing, but because they are all news/journalist sources, their information on launch titles could have come from the exact same press release from Sega or NEC or Nintendo, meaning they're all just parroting a single information point. So you'll need to balance those against first-hand reports, if you can get them. The Usenet source is a good example of helping to flesh this out.

[CGQuarterly]

I think that in this particular case, the Usenet post confirms the USA Today and Game Players articles.  Otherwise I would agree that they could both be based on the same bad information.  For that reason I don't trust game magazine articles talking about the Turbo's launch line-up, because we haven't found any boots-on-the-ground confirmation from back in the day.

[esteban]

Just one word of caution: you cannot simply add up the "data points", because, sadly, a single press release from Sega (or a single announcement/demo at a COMDEX or CES show) can be the source for multiple articles (Sega Power, multi-platform mags, Usenet groups, trade publications, etc.)

I'm not saying this to be annoying, I love what you are doing (I'm trying to archive TG-16 stuff, myself, into a sortable data table), but to help you with your analysis. 7

I wish we knew if the author was drawing completely from first-hand experience. That would be excellent.

Specifically, which of the 3 pieces of evidence do you think is the weakest ? The USA Today article, the Usenet post or the magazine article ? Did you actually read them fully ?

YI don't think he's crying foul on any of your sources for the Genesis launch list. He's just pointed out some of the facts of journalism: reporters love press releases because they can embellish them and Boom! they have an article and it took very little time and no independent reporting.

For example, if USA Today, the NY Times, and EGM all had articles running down the launch titles for a system and the lists match, that's better than nothing, but because they are all news/journalist sources, their information on launch titles could have come from the exact same press release from Sega or NEC or Nintendo, meaning they're all just parroting a single information point. So you'll need to balance those against first-hand reports, if you can get them. The Usenet source is a good example of helping to flesh this out.

Exactly. Thank you.

[jelloslug]

I took a look at all the orange label boxes that I have (I'm missing 5 of them) and I noticed that only Victory Run and The Legendary Axe are a totally different style on the rear.  I wonder if those two games are the actual first launch games.

[Anthony1]

I took a look at all the orange label boxes that I have (I'm missing 5 of them) and I noticed that only Victory Run and The Legendary Axe are a totally different style on the rear.  I wonder if those two games are the actual first launch games.

It's interesting that you mention that, because there is three pieces of information that would suggest that there was actually two waves of launch games. The first wave included just 3 games. The pack in (Keith Courage of course), Legendary Axe and Victory Run.

1. I think it was a Game Players magazine that I was reading (would have to go back and double check), but they were talking about how there was two waves of TG-16 games. They explained that they already covered the first batch of games (Keith, Legendary and Victory), and that they were going to talk about the second batch of software.

2. There was a Usenet post from a guy that mentioned that he was looking at TG-16 stuff in the stores but only saw 3 different games. He specifically mentioned Legendary Axe as one of the 3 games.

3. In the earliest advertising for the TG-16 that started showing up in gaming magazines around August and September of 1989, the 3 games featured in the ads, always seems to be Keith, Legendary and Victory Run.


Obviously, none of this is any kind of slam dunk evidence, but it is something interesting to ponder. It's possible that when the system was first launched in New York and Los Angeles that only 3 games initially appeared, and then after it was rolled out to the rest of the USA, another batch of 6 or 7 games arrived.

[esteban]

I took a look at all the orange label boxes that I have (I'm missing 5 of them) and I noticed that only Victory Run and The Legendary Axe are a totally different style on the rear.  I wonder if those two games are the actual first launch games.

It's interesting that you mention that, because there is three pieces of information that would suggest that there was actually two waves of launch games. The first wave included just 3 games. The pack in (Keith Courage of course), Legendary Axe and Victory Run.

1. I think it was a Game Players magazine that I was reading (would have to go back and double check), but they were talking about how there was two waves of TG-16 games. They explained that they already covered the first batch of games (Keith, Legendary and Victory), and that they were going to talk about the second batch of software.

2. There was a Usenet post from a guy that mentioned that he was looking at TG-16 stuff in the stores but only saw 3 different games. He specifically mentioned Legendary Axe as one of the 3 games.

3. In the earliest advertising for the TG-16 that started showing up in gaming magazines around August and September of 1989, the 3 games featured in the ads, always seems to be Keith, Legendary and Victory Run.


Obviously, none of this is any kind of slam dunk evidence, but it is something interesting to ponder. It's possible that when the system was first launched in New York and Los Angeles that only 3 games initially appeared, and then after it was rolled out to the rest of the USA, another batch of 6 or 7 games arrived.

Interesting.

I was working on an old advertisement years ago (thanks for reminding me, yet another project to finish)....

...and Legendary Axe and Victory Run were  definitely  given a big push.

Now, this reveals a lot about NEC's marketing (the games they wanted to focus on initially), but it might have also been tied to availability (NEC knew both LA and VR were launching nationally).

Anthony1, I love that you are still here trying to piece this damn puzzle together.

[Anthony1]

The good news, is that once you get a bit further out from launch, the games tended to "trickle" out more slowly, and I think a more accurate arrival time frame is possible.

For example, it seems that Military Madness likely arrived in very early March, or very late February 1990.

On March 6th, 1990, this one guy on Usenet mentions that he bought Military Madness the night previously for $55. Assuming the guy has no reason to lie, he bought the game on March 5th, 1990. There isn't any post prior to this time that mentions Military Madness.

Another guy on Usenet, started doing a bi-monthly video game poll, around late January 1990. He would have a list of all the Genesis games, Turbo games, NES games, etc, etc and would list the games out about every two weeks. On his lists in February, Military Madness is nowhere to be found, but on his March list, it shows up.

Again, this isn't rock solid info, but it's better than nothing. I just think once I get outside the launch window, the games probably arrived a few per month. Maybe some months were totally dry. A game would trickle out here and there. In this type of case, I think the Usenet posts will be very helpful, because Turbo fans back then were waiting for each release with baited breath.

Lots of people back in that time would call Software Etc, Electronics Boutique, Babbages and Kay Bee Toys daily trying to see if such and such game arrived yet, or if anything arrived yet. These guys would rush to the store as soon as possible to grab the newest arriving game, and usually somebody would post something about.... "I just got "blank" from Toys R Us..."   on Usenet, and that information is very helpful.

Also, I look at people selling games on Usenet. Lots of people would try to sell games there, or trade games, and by seeing what they actually had on hand, on the specific date they posted the ad, you know for sure that the game was in the hands of the public.

I'll also be going through all my old gaming mags, seeing which months games were previewed, reviewed, etc, etc. When did the tips and tricks from readers end up printed in the mag ? or questions in the leters section. ( Certainly, it's a bit tricky to nail down when the info in the mag was written, but typical lead times back then was 3 months )

Anyways, it's like researching UFO's or Bigfoot. Every little bit of information is helpful, and could eventually unravel the puzzle.

[esteban]

Anthony, thanks for mentioning that interesting summary about Usenet...sounds like a very good source of chronological info (more precise than anything else we roll ever find!)

...if only we knew what city these folks were in! It would help us pinpoint  geographic availability.

[Anthony1]

Anthony, thanks for mentioning that interesting summary about Usenet...sounds like a very good source of chronological info (more precise than anything else we roll ever find!)

...if only we knew what city these folks were in! It would help us pinpoint  geographic availability.

Actually, I might be hyping up Usenet a little too much. Reason being... Google only has so much of Usenet that you can search. They might only have like 20 percent of the posts that were going on, so sometimes info is hard to find, because they actually have a small sample size.

Just go to Google, and search for Google Groups, then search for rec.games.video I think it is. Then search for a keyword like "bonk", then have it sorted by date.  It can be a bit time consuming to sift through the stuff, but there are some very good tidbits of info to discover.

I just wish they had the other 80 percent of all the posts, cause there is tons of stuff missing.


Also, sometimes, you can determine what cities people are in. Most of these guys (and some gals I'm sure), were in college at the time, and they will have something about their University. Or they worked for a company and would have their location.

[esteban]

Anthony, thanks for mentioning that interesting summary about Usenet...sounds like a very good source of chronological info (more precise than anything else we roll ever find!)

...if only we knew what city these folks were in! It would help us pinpoint  geographic availability.

Actually, I might be hyping up Usenet a little too much. Reason being... Google only has so much of Usenet that you can search. They might only have like 20 percent of the posts that were going on, so sometimes info is hard to find, because they actually have a small sample size.

Just go to Google, and search for Google Groups, then search for rec.games.video I think it is. Then search for a keyword like "bonk", then have it sorted by date.  It can be a bit time consuming to sift through the stuff, but there are some very good tidbits of info to discover.

I just wish they had the other 80 percent of all the posts, cause there is tons of stuff missing.


Also, sometimes, you can determine what cities people are in. Most of these guys (and some gals I'm sure), were in college at the time, and they will have something about their University. Or they worked for a company and would have their location.

Yeah, I've searched Usenet before (years ago) but I remember getting to a point of "diminishing returns" where I was not finding anything too useful...

The sad thing is that I can't remember if I saved my findings or not.

Anyway, here's a teaser of that old project I mentioned...this thread inspired me to go back and continue working on it! Ha! It was from years ago...



The TG-16 launch advertising had this style...it didn't last long... and I think you were referring to ads similar to this in one of you prior posts...that's the connection I made, anyway. Ha!

[Anthony1]

Yeah, that's one of the earliest ads for TG-16 that started showing up in gaming magazines around August 1989. As you can see, Legendary Axe, Victory Run and Keith Courage were the main three games featured.

I'm starting to think that with the first test launch, there was only 3 games. Then, when people around the country could start to get Turbo's, I think there was a second wave of software that arrived then.

Kinda like two different launches.  Maybe if you were in New York, initially, you could only buy Legendary Axe and Victory Run individually. Then, when the TG-16 launched Nationwide, that's perhaps when games like China Warrior and R-Type and Dungeon Explorer, Power Golf, etc, etc also arrived.

Of course, this is just a theory right now, and there is a wee bit of evidence pointing to this theory being plausible. but I need some better corroborating evidence to really lock down this possibility.

[esteban]

Yeah, that's one of the earliest ads for TG-16 that started showing up in gaming magazines around August 1989. As you can see, Legendary Axe, Victory Run and Keith Courage were the main three games featured.

I'm starting to think that with the first test launch, there was only 3 games. Then, when people around the country could start to get Turbo's, I think there was a second wave of software that arrived then.

Kinda like two different launches.  Maybe if you were in New York, initially, you could only buy Legendary Axe and Victory Run individually. Then, when the TG-16 launched Nationwide, that's perhaps when games like China Warrior and R-Type and Dungeon Explorer, Power Golf, etc, etc also arrived.

Of course, this is just a theory right now, and there is a wee bit of evidence pointing to this theory being plausible. but I need some better corroborating evidence to really lock down this possibility.

If you haven't seen this page, I'm slowly piecing together stuff from the July/August 1989 issue of EGM #02...

https://archives.tg-16.com/EGM_1989_07.htm

Jump here and read the fine print at the bottom of the page:

https://archives.tg-16.com/EGM_1989_07.htm#Win_TG-16

The games are not guaranteed...and will be determined by NEC's production schedule!

Further proof that this mystery is tough to solve.

I submit that this is the JULY EGM...allowed to stay in shelves for 2 months...so....I don't know what point in trying to make   


Ha!