Kickstarting translation projects?

[Psycho Punch]

Proclaim that you are the New Working Designs

Bring on the fart humor and pop-culture references, NightWolve.

In 2015 there are people still salty about Working Designs localizing games that would never be released in the west otherwise, did you know?

[EmperorIng]

Their localizations were often hit (Lunar*) or miss (Vanguard Bandits). Their bigger problem was retooling the difficulty or mechanics** of games (Elemental Gearbolt). I think, in 2015, we can be a bit objective about the quality of Vic n' co.'s work.

*there are plenty of miss moments in Lunar, but the main story is done well.

**I really like US Silhouette Mirage and don't mind the changes, FYI, but the usual stat readjustments of their other games are very annoying

[True Puffer]

In 2015 there are people still salty about Working Designs localizing games that would never be released in the west otherwise, did you know?

As EmperorIng pointed out their localizations were hit or miss but still all their games are highly sought after and very pricey!

There are many solutions to all those problems (to give yet another example) if translators and hackers unite with PCEWorks and PCEWorks gives them a cut for their work. This could be accomplished if translators like Sam offers them exclusivity for his still unpublished work and in return demand payback for XAK III to NightWolve.

If PCEWorks is smart they could expand into Super Famicom library and take the crown from Timewalk games by simply giving a cut to people like Aeon Genesis and he could stop publishing his work for free. I have no doubt that everybody would support them. They could rule the retro/repro gaming market like nobody ever did.

[SamIAm]

Look, dude, you're not the first person to think of this. The short answer is that doing it illegitimately is putting a lawsuit lightning rod on your head, and getting the license to make it legal is next to impossible, to say nothing of profitability.

Please don't buy illegitimate fan-translation repros.

[xcrement5x]

Yeah, pretty much the only person I know who has done "legit repros" was Brandon over at Super Fighter Team. He got the rights for several titles from the original developers and translated, romhacked and then released the games. 

He's got a bit of a mixed track record as to release times, but I give him props for pulling off a release that keeps the original rights holders/developers in mind as well.

[NecroPhile]

True Fluffer: I know you're too stupid to understand this, but many translators (like Sam) do not want to get involved with illegal bootlegging, especially not for massive profits. 

It's greedy pigs like yourself that are the obstacle to more translations, as many of the people capable of such work are discouraged by the scumfucks that don't appreciate the effort and offer zero help with play testing, helping with artwork, etc.  If someone were to put up a kickstarter for just a translation patch, you wouldn't touch it; you're only interested in making your game shelf look cooler, thus making your pee-pee harder when you jerk off all over teh rarez

[SkyeWelse]

Yeah, pretty much the only person I know who has done "legit repros" was Brandon over at Super Fighter Team. He got the rights for several titles from the original developers and translated, romhacked and then released the games. 

He's got a bit of a mixed track record as to release times, but I give him props for pulling off a release that keeps the original rights holders/developers in mind as well.

That's really very cool that he was able to accomplish that. As a collector myself, I've also thought about how nice it would be to own some nice pretty reproductions to sit on a shelf and occasionally glance at, but I've never taken a bite out of that sandwich for the reason that I'd be purchasing something that wasn't legitimate and therefore only contain the value of the beholder and how much it was worth to them personally (or subsequently how much it was worth to the Repro shop to sell it by creating a demand for it). I just see it as overpaying for something that isn't real and doesn't support the original copyright holders and/or the translation teams that worked on it.

But in a case like what xcrement5x describes above with Brandon from Super Fighter Team, I think i would be totally behind an operation like this.

True Puffer, I'm not sure if you are trolling or not as it does seem like you haven't made too many friends here with your posts so far, but I'll assume that you are being serious about finding a real solution for collectors, translators and copyright holders alike. Reading on what you've stated so far, to really do this correctly so that all parties involved are happy and compensated, an entity "We are the next Working Designs" publisher would need to be established.

This of course would be of no small feat to accomplish, because even if you were to have all the crowdfunding money in the world, there is no guarantee that that money will A) allow you to purchase a legal license to sell the game B) bind you to any actual release schedule or contract for releasing the game (a.k.a. they might take the money and run and call it a failed project, just like so many other Kickstarter projects that fail after they get funded).

To become such an entity, you would first need your own money and influence and probably a track history of being a successful publisher yourself, or at the very least a person with a lot of connections who knows who to contact to make things happen. I would wager that most Japanese businesses would not care to deal with an entity that has no proven track record or relies on crowdfunding as the only means of funding a localization project, even if it is for old / dead software. They would probably just not even be interested in appeasing a handful of collectors.

But, all negativity aside, I would honestly love to see something like this happen actually, if it really could be done correctly. A rise of a new publishing entity geared toward releasing physical retro-games and unreleased localizations of software, perhaps only in limited quantity. With the publisher's blessing as well as the team working on bringing the translation forward being able to work with this entity to secure the rights and release their projects as new official releases. This could actually be a positive news story for the developer as well: "Developer's game gets new release in the United States after 20 years!" and other developers / copyright holders might want a piece of that action once it became popular / trendy enough.

I guess I would kind of envision it as a similar concept to how IndieBox does it for indie games today.

But if you ask me, I don't think we are quite there yet. There still needs to be a successful publishing entity out there willing to make that kind of bold move first, and that all takes capital and likely a huge loss, before any real profit or breaking even is met. Ultimately it is a bit of a gamble. It may even be more of a risk than releasing the RetroVGS in this day and age.

-Thomas

[True Puffer]

True Puffer, I'm not sure if you are trolling or not as it does seem like you haven't made too many friends here with your posts so far, but I'll assume that you are being serious about finding a real solution for collectors, translators and copyright holders alike. Reading on what you've stated so far, to really do this correctly so that all parties involved are happy and compensated, an entity "We are the next Working Designs" publisher would need to be established.
...
But, all negativity aside, I would honestly love to see something like this happen actually, if it really could be done correctly. A rise of a new publishing entity geared toward releasing physical retro-games and unreleased localizations of software, perhaps only in limited quantity. With the publisher's blessing as well as the team working on bringing the translation forward being able to work with this entity to secure the rights and release their projects as new official releases. This could actually be a positive news story for the developer as well: "Developer's game gets new release in the United States after 20 years!" and other developers / copyright holders might want a piece of that action once it became popular / trendy enough.

I guess I would kind of envision it as a similar concept to how IndieBox does it for indie games today.

But if you ask me, I don't think we are quite there yet. There still needs to be a successful publishing entity out there willing to make that kind of bold move first, and that all takes capital and likely a huge loss, before any real profit or breaking even is met. Ultimately it is a bit of a gamble. It may even be more of a risk than releasing the RetroVGS in this day and age.

-Thomas

Beautifully written. The best reply in this thread. Bravo!

I didn't joined this forum to make friends only to get my point across concerning repros which i did. I had chance to hear opinions from Sam and NightWolve directly despite their negativity. I had great time. PC Engine FX is a good forum but it is not for me.

Thank you guys and i am wishing you well.

Farewell

[esteban]

True Puffer, I'm not sure if you are trolling or not as it does seem like you haven't made too many friends here with your posts so far, but I'll assume that you are being serious about finding a real solution for collectors, translators and copyright holders alike. Reading on what you've stated so far, to really do this correctly so that all parties involved are happy and compensated, an entity "We are the next Working Designs" publisher would need to be established.
...
But, all negativity aside, I would honestly love to see something like this happen actually, if it really could be done correctly. A rise of a new publishing entity geared toward releasing physical retro-games and unreleased localizations of software, perhaps only in limited quantity. With the publisher's blessing as well as the team working on bringing the translation forward being able to work with this entity to secure the rights and release their projects as new official releases. This could actually be a positive news story for the developer as well: "Developer's game gets new release in the United States after 20 years!" and other developers / copyright holders might want a piece of that action once it became popular / trendy enough.

I guess I would kind of envision it as a similar concept to how IndieBox does it for indie games today.

But if you ask me, I don't think we are quite there yet. There still needs to be a successful publishing entity out there willing to make that kind of bold move first, and that all takes capital and likely a huge loss, before any real profit or breaking even is met. Ultimately it is a bit of a gamble. It may even be more of a risk than releasing the RetroVGS in this day and age.

-Thomas

Beautifully written. The best reply in this thread. Bravo!

I didn't joined this forum to make friends only to get my point across concerning repros which i did. I had chance to hear opinions from Sam and NightWolve directly despite their negativity. I had great time. PC Engine FX is a good forum but it is not for me.

Thank you guys and i am wishing you well.

Farewell

Don't go, comrade, you have barely  stuck your pinky toe in the water.

It doesn't start get interesting until your nether-regions are splashing around freely.

Stay.

[SamIAm]

Super Fighter Team has some interesting accomplishments under their belts, but what they don't have is a license either for a remotely major Japanese game or from a remotely major Japanese developer.

Sorry to be so negative, but if we were in Vegas, I'd put 90% of my stuff on companies like Konami, current owner of Hudson IPs, just saying no. Japanese companies, especially large ones, are conservative. If they ever decide it's somehow worthwhile to translate these games, they have the capacity to do it in-house and completely on their own terms. Why hand everything over to some start-up? Why give them a generous contract?

Then, consider this: If I go to Konami and ask them about publishing Anearth Fantasy Stories and they say no, I will be on their radar. If I go ahead and start putting together a free release translation patch anyway, they are that much more likely to hit me with a cease-and-desist order. Or worse. Especially if repros start appearing on the market.

I don't want to say it's impossible to get a high-profile license. Someone might surprise us someday. But people have approached Japanese companies in the past about this kind of thing. When the guys who did the Tales of Phantasia patch approached Namco about doing an English localization of the GBA version back when it first came out, they were told quickly and curtly "no". I don't think fan-translators are seen as friends.

[NightWolve]

Proclaim that you are the New Working Designs

Bring on the fart humor and pop-culture references, NightWolve.

You know, I did hope I could get WD level entertainment with my projects when I started, but I never found an editor who could do it. Both my main translators Shimarisu and B.J.DeuceBag (Le Criminal) hated Working Designs (DeuceBag not as much), and I've mentioned this before, but Shimarisu claims she learned Japanese after Victor Ireland got tired of the bashing by crazed Japanophile purists in his chatroom and told them to learn Japanese and translate themselves if they hated his work/company so much, etc.! She rose to the "challenge" to prove she could do a better job... Let's just say, she proved why literal translations are terrible and unwanted too...

[seieienbu]

Did she leave "san" and "kun" etc after everyone's name?  I hate reading a translation with that stuff...

[NightWolve]

Hahahaha, nah, she wasn't one of the Japanophile purists that goes THAT far!

[SephirothTNH]

Yeah I hate that too.  It's one of the reasons I don't care for graphic novels and fan subs.  Anyone know if that's still the norm?

[esteban]

Did she leave "san" and "kun" etc after everyone's name?  I hate reading a translation with that stuff...

Seieienbu-san, I am disappointed in you.

[EmperorIng]

Bring on the fart humor and pop-culture references, NightWolve.

You know, I did hope I could get WD level entertainment with my projects when I started, but I never found an editor who could do it. ... Let's just say, she proved why literal translations are terrible and unwanted too...

That type of rewriting requires a light touch here, a heavy hand there. It's harder than it seems, and requires imagination, which team members might not always have in abundance! It reminds me of my college days taking old Latin texts and trying to turn them into half-decent English.

I really don't mind many WD localizations (especially since they were localizing stories that weren't top-grade to begin with, sans Lunar), but if it didn't match the tone of the game the quirks detract more than not.

[NightWolve]

That type of rewriting requires a light touch here, a heavy hand there. It's harder than it seems, and requires imagination, which team members might not always have in abundance! It reminds me of my college days taking old Latin texts and trying to turn them into half-decent English.

I really don't mind many WD localizations (especially since they were localizing stories that weren't top-grade to begin with, sans Lunar), but if it didn't match the tone of the game the quirks detract more than not.

Yeah, true dat, very well said!

[seieienbu]

Did she leave "san" and "kun" etc after everyone's name?  I hate reading a translation with that stuff...

Seieienbu-san, I am disappointed in you.

Yeah, uh, I started using the name because I'd been playing Yang with Seiei Enbu in Street Fighter for over a decade, not because it sounds Japanese and I wanted to attach "san" to everyone's name. 

Sorry to disappoint.