Retro VGS Game Console

[BlueBMW]

I mean do they really want to equate their system to the toilet that was the Jaguar?

No, that was the Jaguar CD!

[CrackTiger]

I would post legimate questions, the kind that need answering most, but I know that they won't answer them or let them be visible to the public. What they're really asking for is for the already converted collectards to gush to one another about how amazingly collectible this fantasic new collectible product is.


"How long until we get to see more games ported over from other platforms? Will they be limited editions and what kinds of pre-order bonuses can we expect?"

"Can you please make cart label variants mandatory for all licensed games? Minimum of six please, ideally with a single holographic/iridescent/etc chase label."

"Please limit all game print runs to small numbers and only allow extra print runs with unique packaging which identifies which set a game is from".

"Will we get to buy limited edition systems painted to look like various Nintendo consoles? IE: NES edition, Famicom edition, Gamecube edition, Wii U edition, etc?"

"How did you manage to lure the biggest and brightest retro artists of the hot retro scene and are they as big of fans of the Retro VGS Games Console as we retro/8-bit collectors are?"

[Gredler]

Hate to be a boner killer here, but there is a reason why we don't see any new cartridge based system nowadays (unless you count the DS line). Wouldn't it be more economical to release them on a sd card or a variant of? Or CD based? I'm pretty sure if it gets the AES treatment ($200 per game yikes) it'll likely fail.. BTW, I'm still confused why they chose to use a shell of a failed system. I mean do they really want to equate their system to the toilet that was the Jaguar?

Is it not plausible that a single sd style card could hold a game, and if mounted into a large plastic cases - not unlike original NES carts were tiny pcbs in a large plastic case - this would be a more extreme hardware to plastic ratio. I imagine this could keep costs down if they used a standardized pcb that manufacturers are already making (sd card, etc).

Don't get me wrong, I don't think this thing will be successful enough to support its costs, but I imagine the cost of a sd'sh card in a larger plastic case would be the least of their financial hurdles in this endeavor.

[elmer]

What they're really asking for is for the already converted collectards to gush to one another about how amazingly collectible this fantasic new collectible product is.

Hahaha ... so very true!

That still seems to be the only reason for it's attempted-existence. 


But ... hey ... they've finally got a real hardware guy to work on the thing ... and he's actually trying to design something fun and interesting. 

To quote their FAQ ...

What's going on under the hood?

Specifically, and at this current time, it's an FPGA and ARM system. If a developer wants to make a Neo Geo game, they would include an HDL (Hardware Description Language) file that configures the FPGA to operate like a Neo Geo.
...
We'll be supplying the validated cores for developers to choose from and you don't have to know how to program an FPGA to make a game, it just gives us a lot of hardware flexibility, I didn't want to lock us in to a specific ASIC design.

So ... at this point they're talking about it being something like the MIST or the Turbo Chameleon 64, but in a Jaguar box.

Turbo Chameleon 64 (http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Chameleon)

MIST (http://harbaum.org/till/mist/index.shtml)

That would be a really fun piece of hardware for a geek-developer to play with, particularly since it sounds like it would be based on one of the newer Altera Cyclone chips.

But it wouldn't make any commercial sense for a developer to waste time like that ... that's really hobbyist territory.

They've already mentioned raising the price from their original estimate (those FPGA chips are expensive), and I still see absolutely no commercial future for this as a game system, nor why anyone would buy it to play the games that they have announced.

It still stinks of being a crazy solution-looking-for-a-problem.

However ... if they do actually make the damned thing with specs like that, then I'll be very tempted to buy one, just to hack around with the hardware ... but I don't think that I'd ever buy any of their games.

[esteban]

Hate to be a boner killer here, but there is a reason why we don't see any new cartridge based system nowadays (unless you count the DS line). Wouldn't it be more economical to release them on a sd card or a variant of? Or CD based? I'm pretty sure if it gets the AES treatment ($200 per game yikes) it'll likely fail.. BTW, I'm still confused why they chose to use a shell of a failed system. I mean do they really want to equate their system to the toilet that was the Jaguar?

Supposedly, recycling the Jag mold cuts down on development and manufacturing hiccups (which would force further iterations of design and further prototyping of shell --> more $$$$).

I am the minority, but I think it is awesome that the Jaguar mold is being used.

The people who hate the Jaguar design are just haters.

The Genesis was an ugly wart, too, but that wouldn't stop me from appreciating it if it was reincarnated as a Blue-Ray player. YES, IT IS A NOVELTY, but that is the point, as far as I am concerned. Yes, I am intrigued by a Blue-Ray in a Genesis form factor. Total novelty. If it used the genuine molds of the Genesis, I'd feel it would be kinda neat (the FEKA LEGACY continues!)

Like I said, a novelty, but at least it is rooted in real video game history.

Also, co sided the alternative: a new, original design. Let's assume a modest budget for designing/prototyping new shell.


DO YOU REALLY THINK A NEW 2015 DESIGN WOULD BE INTERESTING? IT WOULD BE SHITE. LOOK AT ALL CONSUMER ELECTRONICS and consoles. Bland. Lame. Silly. Uninspired.

The Jaguar is far better than the bland shite you'd get today (remember, this kickstarter is on a budget, so the new shell design would be utilitarian at best, and ugly/impractical at worst).

JAG DESIGN:
It is meant to be a novelty, but the fact that it is not a reproduction, but the *actual* mold makes it seem more viscerally connected to a real piece of video game history (dare I say video game *infamy* ...which makes it EVEN BETTER).

BOTTOM LINE: I would not be surprised if the REAL MOTIVE  for using the Jag Design is to funnel money to the guy who owns the molds. I am not a scammer, but if I was, I can think of countless ways to structure a project where expenses seem 100% legit.

[BigusSchmuck]

Hate to be a boner killer here, but there is a reason why we don't see any new cartridge based system nowadays (unless you count the DS line). Wouldn't it be more economical to release them on a sd card or a variant of? Or CD based? I'm pretty sure if it gets the AES treatment ($200 per game yikes) it'll likely fail.. BTW, I'm still confused why they chose to use a shell of a failed system. I mean do they really want to equate their system to the toilet that was the Jaguar?

Supposedly, recycling the Jag mold cuts down on development and manufacturing hiccups (which would force further iterations of design and further prototyping of shell --> more $$$$).

I am the minority, but I think it is awesome that the Jaguar mold is being used.

The people who hate the Jaguar design are just haters.

The Genesis was an ugly wart, too, but that wouldn't stop me from appreciating it if it was reincarnated as a Blue-Ray player. YES, IT IS A NOVELTY, but that is the point, as far as I am concerned. Yes, I am intrigued by a Blue-Ray in a Genesis form factor. Total novelty. If it used the genuine molds of the Genesis, I'd feel it would be kinda neat (the FEKA LEGACY continues!)

Like I said, a novelty, but at least it is rooted in real video game history.

Also, co sided the alternative: a new, original design. Let's assume a modest budget for designing/prototyping new shell.


DO YOU REALLY THINK A NEW 2015 DESIGN WOULD BE INTERESTING? IT WOULD BE SHITE. LOOK AT ALL CONSUMER ELECTRONICS and consoles. Bland. Lame. Silly. Uninspired.

The Jaguar is far better than the bland shite you'd get today (remember, this kickstarter is on a budget, so the new shell design would be utilitarian at best, and ugly/impractical at worst).

JAG DESIGN:
It is meant to be a novelty, but the fact that it is not a reproduction, but the *actual* mold makes it seem more viscerally connected to a real piece of video game history (dare I say video game *infamy* ...which makes it EVEN BETTER).

BOTTOM LINE: I would not be surprised if the REAL MOTIVE  for using the Jag Design is to funnel money to the guy who owns the molds. I am not a scammer, but if I was, I can think of countless ways to structure a project where expenses seem 100% legit.

Makes sense as Atari tried to cut costs anyway possible. I dunno man, I'm not really sold on the whole thing. I think (as other stated in this thread) better energies can be spent on developing new games for old systems. To each his/her own I guess.

[SignOfZeta]

He bought the molds because he doesn't know what he's doing. If this product even launches (doubt it) I'm pretty sure he won't ultimately use those molds. If it does, I'm sure using the existing molds will only add to the cost/price when compared to designing from scratch. If it somehow turns out to be a huge hit (no way, just...no way) then the MkII ver will have a new case.

You simply don't design a new product by starting out with nothing more concrete and real than 25 year old molds for a massively failed product and then go from there. That just isn't how it's done. Only a total simpleton defines a "game system" by it's case design. I love good design, but when you are going to make something like a TV game machine the case design is one of the LEAST important things to consider, and usually one of the last things completed. It's usually outsourced completely.

When you don't know the exact CPU but someone already have molds for the cases, your hype mining colectardation couldn't be more glaringly obvious. The shit is upside down.

To address Esteban:

I agree that the Jag isn't bad looking at all. It looks great in white. The design itself isn't a problem.

The idea that any new design couldn't be good because all new industrial design is naff is just not true. It's true that new design is certainly lame in game consoles right now (PS2-4 all suck, every XBOX sucks, WiiU is least interesting Nintendo machine ever) but that's mostly to do with the way those companies work and the way that cost reduction is a massive priority right now. Everyone wants the cheapest stuff possible so the Apple TV, Roku, PSTV, and a million other products are all identical tiny cheap plastic bricks. When you are designing a product like what the VGS wants to be, you don't have those restrictions. People are wasting money on purpose on this, on principle, so there is money to hire good designers, use multiple materials and parts, etc. A new design could be just dandy, but I guess it's not important really since they are going with the "Worst game machine ever" vibe for some reason, and also it's never coming out anyway.

[NecroPhile]

There's no shortage of existing cases that could be used.  Even if they went custom, the cost is negligible when spread out over the quantity of systems that will necessarily be built and sold for this to ever go anywhere.

The people who hate the Jaguar design are just haters.

I hate them using it for reasons other than aesthetics.  Even if it were a beautiful system, why copy the design of a failed system of which few retro gamer have fond memories?  It's just a poor choice, especially when your system has pretty much nothing in common in terms of capabilities other than 'plays games'.

The Genesis was an ugly wart, too, but that wouldn't stop me from appreciating it if it was reincarnated as a Blue-Ray player. YES, IT IS A NOVELTY, but that is the point, as far as I am concerned. Yes, I am intrigued by a Blue-Ray in a Genesis form factor. Total novelty. If it used the genuine molds of the Genesis, I'd feel it would be kinda neat (the FEKA LEGACY continues!)

This is a very different situation, where there's no pretense about its use being anything other than cashing in on people's nostalgia.  That's exactly what they're trying to do here, but again, who is nostalgic for Jags?


TL;DR - the only Jag design worth replicating with modern hardware is the E-Type. 

[wildfruit]

TL;DR - the only Jag design worth replicating with modern hardware is the E-Type. 

Y u no love F type?

[NecroPhile]

Y u no love F type?

It's a very nice looking car, but you don't make replicas of brand new cars.

[o.pwuaioc]

TL;DR - the only Jag design worth replicating with modern hardware is the E-Type. 

Hellz yeah! That's my dream car right there. Screw the Aston Martin, Lamborghini, whatever else. E-Type was the very pinnacle of car types.

[Arkhan Asylum]

It's baffling.   Pier Solar and ROM are two titles coming to it.

They exist on Steam and crap.   Why do you need to buy this thing to play it?

You'd be buying a machine with an FPGA in it so you can play something that's cheaper/more accessible elsewhere.

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[Otaking]

I really like the idea of a modern yet retro console, with new 2D sprite based games and cartridges.
But with consoles I only ever really liked Japanese originated games, so instead if this idea was done by and supported by Japanese developers it would be awesome.
But saying that the guy behind it seems to have is heart in the right place, so I do hope it's a success but it's not for me.

[NightWolve]

I am the minority, but I think it is awesome that the Jaguar mold is being used.

The people who hate the Jaguar design are just haters.

I love esteban.  Top forum poster by far!

[esteban]

NightWolve:

[elmer]

With the kickstarter coming up in mid-September, they've finally released some hardware specs.

It's got me even more worried about the system's future, or probable lack of it.

They've decided to put in a complete 1.3GHz ARM chip with 3D GPU and 1GB RAM on there.

More powerful than a Raspberry PI, but less powerful than a Raspberry PI2.

That just reeks of them wanting to have a fallback position so that they can run launch titles using software-emulation (i.e. the MegaDrive version of Pier Solar) in order to hit their shipping date.

That doesn't exactly sound any different to buying a Retron 5, and probably less powerful. 

I suspect that they've probably realized that FPGA-emulation is still in it's early days, and that there still aren't many FPGA console cores available yet.

The most sophisticated that I've seen is Gregory Estrade's PC Engine one, and that still isn't 100% compatible. Definitely no MegaDrive or SNES FPGA-cores yet.

The promise for the future is definitely there, and the 49,000 LE FPGA that they're talking about put it well above the current MiST and Turbo Chameleon 64.

It does sound like quite a nice piece of hardware for geeks like me, if they can bring it out at the right price, and if they really do allow homebrew on it, in the way that they've claimed.

But ... if they don't have the courage to back the FPGA side of things 100%, then all that they're likely to get as retail games are just going to be software-emulated SNES and MegaDrive indie games that run on the ARM core.

BTW, here's the really good news ... there is an Amiga 1200 FPGA core that's just had it's version 1.0 release ... so you might have the chance to run all those great CD32 games on the Retro VGS! 

Game Sack CD32 review ...

[SkyeWelse]

I'm looking forward to the Kickstarter to see what they show then and what the price will be. I hope it does well, regardless on whether or not I buy one. But it does seem like it has some very nice potential. Seriously thinking about it at least. But I guess it just depends on the price.

-Thomas

[CrackTiger]

If the system is $50 and the games are $20 - $30 each, then it has a chance with Retro gamers. Otherwise it's just a worthless sinkhole for collectards.

A better money making scheme would be to not even bother with the console. Just make limited edition packaged collectible game carts with foil, iridescent and holographic accents and packed-in randomized sticker sets and crap. The games being not actually playable on anything would keep the collectibles from being ruined by game openers.

[NightWolve]

A better money making scheme would be to not even bother with the console. Just make limited edition packaged collectible game carts with foil, iridescent and holographic accents and packed-in randomized sticker sets and crap. The games being not actually playable on anything would keep the collectibles from being ruined by game openers.

[esteban]

Hahshahahs.

I pre-ordered my Retro VGS already.

[ctophil]

I think the RETRO VGS is a great idea.  I've bought reproduction carts of classic games for the past 3 years, as well as homebrew games.  I love buying old NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis games that never got an English translation and then finding new life in a repro cart complete with box, manual, and poster fully in English.  I believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Frankly, I'm tired of the "digital revolution," where everything is downloadable to your hard drive.  Sure, it's convenient.  But I WANT a physical instruction manual, collectible maps & posters, and decent artwork on my game box.  Mike Kennedy knows his RETRO business because he is developing a console that is striving to stay away from the digital world (no internet connection for updates and such).  20 years from now, I want the RETRO VGS to still function without needing some patch from the Internet, unlike the Xbox One where it tries to connect to the Internet for every little thing.  I can't even play Killer Instinct on Xbox One without it saying, "The Console needs to go online for a game update."  You can't even save the game without the update?!?

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers.

[o.pwuaioc]

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

But for the fact that this will not happen.

[elmer]

I believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Mmmmm ... that sweet, sweet Kool Aid!

You have a good grasp on their marketing line ... but have you actually tried to think through the implications of any of it?

Do you have any grasp of the economics of game development?

Do you have any grasp of the technical details of game development?

Do you understand why modern indie "RETRO" developers do almost everything in Unity?

Do you know what "Unity" is?

Do you realize how underpowered the current RETRO VGS specs are as a Unity platform?

Do you know what an "FPGA" is (apart from being used to market a dream)?

Do you know the benefits and downsides of using an FPGA instead of pre-baked silicon?

...

Or, to quote Fox Mulder, do you just "Want To Believe"?


When the RETRO VGS announced this ...

And, RVGS will be a great system to play all the new and upcoming homebrew titles for Atari 2600, Intellivision, Colecovision and NES (possible 16-bit consoles in the future, however, no reliable cores for these have been made yet) giving you all lots of new games to play on RVGS from day one!

Did you understand that they're talking about somehow licensing other people's often abandoned, or partially incomplete, and often GPL'd work???

Seee https://code.google.com/p/mist-board/wiki/CoreStatus

Oh ... BTW ... just which "new titles" are these?

I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers.

Me, too. Just not the statement that you're thinking.

[Psycho Punch]

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Ahahahshahfqowepruqwotyosysfcxbbhklahdfoyqoierwyfsjkxclbnz.vcnaodfhaoiryqoweuirqur123412454@#*($Q^(&$^Q*&$^(

[CrackTiger]

I think the RETRO VGS is a great idea.  I've bought reproduction carts of classic games for the past 3 years, as well as homebrew games.  I love buying old NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis games that never got an English translation and then finding new life in a repro cart complete with box, manual, and poster fully in English.  I believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Frankly, I'm tired of the "digital revolution," where everything is downloadable to your hard drive.  Sure, it's convenient.  But I WANT a physical instruction manual, collectible maps & posters, and decent artwork on my game box.  Mike Kennedy knows his RETRO business because he is developing a console that is striving to stay away from the digital world (no internet connection for updates and such).  20 years from now, I want the RETRO VGS to still function without needing some patch from the Internet, unlike the Xbox One where it tries to connect to the Internet for every little thing.  I can't even play Killer Instinct on Xbox One without it saying, "The Console needs to go online for a game update."  You can't even save the game without the update?!?

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Please familiarize yourself with this potential console before making wild speculations which have already been ruled out. Everything you seem to believe about this thing, it's pretty much the opposite.

[PukeSter]

Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

You're hilarious. Have you heard of the Ouya?

It tried to make a statement exactly like the one you said. And it failed miserably.

How many units did the damn thing sell anyway? About 50,000? The Ouya company was so embarrassed, they couldn't even reveal their sales numbers.

This thing is targeting an even smaller audience, with far less power and 3-4 times the price.

I mean, at least Ouya got a mobile port of Sonic CD. This thing could barely get Shovel Knight.

[turboswimbz]

Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

You're hilarious. Have you heard of the Ouya?

It tried to make a statement exactly like the one you said. And it failed miserably.

How many units did the damn thing sell anyway? About 50,000? The Ouya company was so embarrassed, they couldn't even reveal their sales numbers.

This thing is targeting an even smaller audience, with far less power and 3-4 times the price.

I mean, at least Ouya got a mobile port of Sonic CD. This thing could barely get Shovel Knight.

No lie there are still 2 OUYAS sitting on the shelf in a local target.

[glazball]

ctophil - I'm with you, and I'm trying to stay optimistic.  Lots of people are ready to laugh off the system, but as of this writing, no one knows anything about it.

If the KS does start next week, they'd better have some kind of working prototype.  As of now, they seem to have nothing except a shell.

I'm obviously an exception to the rule, but I don't buy digital games at all.  I have an interest in guzzling the RVGS Kool-Aid because a cart-based console is a dream of mine, and would love to see it succeed.  It seems aimed at dumb fucks like me who shun digital purchases and would allow me to see a lot of the great downloadable games I've been boycotting.

[SignOfZeta]

The games you are boycotting aren't going to be on this machine.

[PukeSter]

Glazball, you are an idiot. You said so yourself.

PC, PS4 and Xbox one, the newer consoles, all force you to install the entirety of any physical game disc you buy.

Not only that, but games don't even have manuals anymore. There's no collectable value.

And as Zeta said, the Retro VGS won't get the games you want. Only a few indie developers will make games for it. Are you excited to play games like Tiny Knight or Super Noah's Ark 3D? I'm definitely not.

These aren't even real cartridges. They are plastic shells with a USB drive in them

[glazball]

Zeta and Lukester, neither one of you know what will or will not be coming out on this machine, IF it does happen.  And no, the launch lineup is laughable.  But so was the Wii U and it's turned out to be a wonderful system imo.

I'm willing to give the RVGS a chance.  I'd love a return to physical media.  Why did Ark release Atlantean on card?  He didn't have to.  I'm sure it was a ton of work for a small niche audience.  But it's an audience that includes me and I treasure it.  Perhaps the RVGS can work a similar magic.

First, he needs to show a working prototype before he gets any monetary support from me.  As someone else on another forum pointed out, Kickstarter requires as much for hardware.  Second, price is a major concern.

I don't mind being called an idiot.  It's a pretty idiotic idea, I'm quite aware of that.  Vinyl lovers still have their vinyl because the small minority spoke with their money over the years, and perhaps us cart lovers can do the same.

[SignOfZeta]

The problem is that to you a game system is a series of shrinkwraped cardboard boxes and the shape of the controller. If you had any understanding of product design whatsoever you'd know that making a game machine is not just way more complex than that, the whole association with carts or Jaguar shells is completely upside down. It's like someone said they were going to design a race car and the only details set in stone are that it has to have red wheels and an organic leather steering wheel.

Again, neither pro, nor con, neither makes sense. There is no system to be pro or con about.

And comparing it to the WiiU? Come on. Do you have any sense of scale? Nintendo probably put a million man hours into the WiiU before they even told us it existed. This is a guy caught thinking out loud and has been bullshitting his way forward with a sliver of an idea because he's too scared to put the brakes on the whole thing.

[GreatBlue Swirlof99]

I'm not judging it yet, haven't seen or played it yet, and it might be cool! (I guess)

[elmer]

I don't mind being called an idiot.  It's a pretty idiotic idea, I'm quite aware of that.  Vinyl lovers still have their vinyl because the small minority spoke with their money over the years, and perhaps us cart lovers can do the same.

I find it quite possible to believe that the RETRO VGS (as it is currently configured) might indeed survive for a short while as a boutique platform for "vanity" publishing.

If an "indie" developer does well with a game on Steam/PS4/Xbone/iPhone ... then 12-18 months later, when the user base has finally got them to fix all the major bugs, they might feel flushed with success and decide that it would be "cool" to have a physical cart ... if the process is made easy for them.

But if you're expecting developers to actually really "target" the RETRO VGS, then you've just got to look at what's out there to get an idea of the costs of catering to a small audience.

Take a look at what the NG:DEV team has done in making new carts for the Neo Geo. Great work ... but $400-$550 per cart really limits the people that can afford it.

If that future appeals to you ... go for it!

But if you're listening to the stoners and somehow expecting a flood a high quality sequels to classic 16-bit games ... then you're deluding yourself.

[SignOfZeta]

There is no reason to compare what NG:DEV does with this thing. Yes their Geo carts are hundreds of dollars, but their Dreamcast ports are like $60 because that's the production cost difference between CD-ROM and carts build of mutiple 24 pin ROMs when you start talking about games that big, much bigger than any cart SNK ever made, IIRC.

And frankly, if there was a snowball's chance in hell that the VGS would get even a single title as interesting as something from NG:DEV (who's games aren't even that great) even if it were $400, the system would be much more appealing. I don't see anything like that happening though. I think something along the lines of "Amiga demo scene" or "15 year old version of MAME" is the best possibly likely scenario.

[PukeSter]

Zeta, believe it or not this thing is getting support from NG.Dev.Team.

Which games? I have no idea.

[elmer]

There is no reason to compare what NG:DEV does with this thing. Yes their Geo carts are hundreds of dollars, but their Dreamcast ports are like $60 because that's the production cost difference between CD-ROM and carts build of mutiple 24 pin ROMs when you start talking about games that big, much bigger than any cart SNK ever made, IIRC.

Sure, the cart costs are huge, but IIRC, they're basing their business on Neo Geo sales, and the Dreamcast releases are secondary. $60 for a CD is still a nice profit-margin after the COGs.

I'd expect any RETRO VGS prices to be higher in order to cover the higher COGs, and Mike Kennedy's "licensing" fees.

And frankly, if there was a snowball's chance in hell that the VGS would get even a single title as interesting as something from NG:DEV (who's games aren't even that great) even if it were $400, the system would be much more appealing. I don't see anything like that happening though.

Actually, they're one of the teams that I can see supporting the RETRO VGS.

They own their games, those games are already working on "old" hardware, there's no need to get any Unity licensing sorted-out, and so it's just a case of striking the right business deal ... and apparently they've already been talking together.

The ARM chip in the RETRO VGS should run a Neo Geo emulator quite nicely.

So IMHO, it'll just be a case of Mike Kennedy funneling enough of the Kickstarter funds in their direction as a Development Partner to make it worth their while.

[SignOfZeta]

Do we have any solid info on the NG:Dev thing? I ask because that would be a huge deal.

[PukeSter]

Do we have any solid info on the NG:Dev thing? I ask because that would be a huge deal.

Obviously they can't reveal specifics yet, but on their facebook page...

"NG:DEV.TEAM contacted us about developing games for the RETRO VGS! Yes, that get's us EXCITED! And it should get YOU excited too!"

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/831382946930977

In addition, NG.Dev.Team liked the Retro VGS facebook page, as well as Marvelous (who owns the Data East catalog), and DotEMU, who made those R-Type ports for Android and iOS.

[CrackTiger]

NGDev have already said that they aren't doing anymore DC ports. If the allow any of their games to be put on this thing, they will only do it themselves if enough collectards buy enough other games first and then likely only if licensing fees are waived. The most likely scenario is the RetroVGS team doing a kickstarter to buy the rights to port one of the DC ports. There's no way NGDev is going to make anything new for the VGS. The fact that it's 75% shovelware already makes it all the more unattractive to publishers and game players. That's why my emtpy carts packed in shiny sealed boxes scheme is much more appealing to everyone.

[SignOfZeta]

Do we have any solid info on the NG:Dev thing? I ask because that would be a huge deal.

Obviously they can't reveal specifics yet, but on their facebook page...

"NG:DEV.TEAM contacted us about developing games for the RETRO VGS! Yes, that get's us EXCITED! And it should get YOU excited too!"

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/831382946930977

In addition, NG.Dev.Team liked the Retro VGS facebook page, as well as Marvelous (who owns the Data East catalog), and DotEMU, who made those R-Type ports for Android and iOS.

Hmm, that's not very impressive.

[PCEngineHell]

Yeah no one has actually announced anything. Liking someones FB page doesn't mean development deals are happening, especially on an unproven system not even launched yet, with no consumer base in place. Indi developers need a system to already have a consumer base in place to make sure what they make will bring in cash. Really all that is going on right now is a lot of spin to try to drum up interest.

[wildfruit]

I thought the Wii u launch line up was quite good and varied.

[ClodBusted]

You know it's retro if it is spelled RETRO with capital letters.

[PukeSter]

Do we have any solid info on the NG:Dev thing? I ask because that would be a huge deal.

Obviously they can't reveal specifics yet, but on their facebook page...

"NG:DEV.TEAM contacted us about developing games for the RETRO VGS! Yes, that get's us EXCITED! And it should get YOU excited too!"

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/831382946930977

In addition, NG.Dev.Team liked the Retro VGS facebook page, as well as Marvelous (who owns the Data East catalog), and DotEMU, who made those R-Type ports for Android and iOS.

Hmm, that's not very impressive.

It's now official.

Gunlord coming to Retro VGS...Last Hope Pink Bullets will come out later too.

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS?fref=ts

[LostFlunky]

Did anyone catch the cardboard printed prototype they posted a few days ago?  Gettin' excited!

[o.pwuaioc]

Did anyone catch the cardboard printed prototype they posted a few days ago?  Gettin' excited!

I laughed my ass off when I saw that. Oh, boy did they quickly take down the pictures, too! How amateurish can one team be?

[SignOfZeta]

Do we have any solid info on the NG:Dev thing? I ask because that would be a huge deal.

Obviously they can't reveal specifics yet, but on their facebook page...

"NG:DEV.TEAM contacted us about developing games for the RETRO VGS! Yes, that get's us EXCITED! And it should get YOU excited too!"

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/831382946930977

In addition, NG.Dev.Team liked the Retro VGS facebook page, as well as Marvelous (who owns the Data East catalog), and DotEMU, who made those R-Type ports for Android and iOS.

Hmm, that's not very impressive.

It's now official.

Gunlord coming to Retro VGS...Last Hope Pink Bullets will come out later too.

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS?fref=ts

Does this mean it can emulate Dreamcast or Neo Geo?

/joke

[CrackTiger]

If the retro fans who are excited for the Retro VGS love retro games so much and NGDEV's game appeal to them, shouldn't they already own the Dreamcast versions at least?

I won't be surprised if the VGS team never says a word on the subject and after the first NGDev title is released, someone figures out that the cart or console is running a homebrew Neo Geo emulator with permision from the author.

[Psycho Punch]

NG:Dev likes to cash in on collectards, so what. Yay another game available for actual retro consoles that I can buy literally right now and play to the end, before the Retro VGS hits the market.

Now if NGDEV starts developing NEW games to it, that's another story.