Best Shoot Em Ups on Turbografx & PC Engine

[Strider77]

1943 Kai....     there is a code that unlocks a "special" mode that is suppose to be quite good from what I heard.

[CrackTiger]

1943 Kai....     there is a code that unlocks a "special" mode that is suppose to be quite good from what I heard.

It involves thousands of directional and button presses.

[Alt-Nintega]

RAIDEN

[ToyMachine78]

... i got shit for using "Shmup" in another forum. Guess you just can't please everyone 

First, there is no other forum. Second, this is all initiation hazing...we gotta see how thick a skin you got.

I like my pew pew games.

Personally, I prefer the "shmup" designation, but will respect the preference of the forum.  It avoids confusion with light gun games also generally being called shooters, and the "up" in shmup to me works also to signify the typical upwards vertical scrolling of most games of its type.  Plus, it just sounds cool to me - like "snes" instead of "S.N.E.S." as purists would have you say.

I don't mean this in a negative way, but you must be young. No one called light gun games shooters bitd and the genre naming has only become disputed by recent generations. Just like how more and more people are trying to use "RPG" to describe digicomics, war sims, adventure games and misc games never considered RPGs before.

Also, "shmups" are not usually vertical.

Whenever the shmup discussion comes up, I always ask shmup-users the same question. Do you call beat 'em ups "bmups"?

Thunder Force IV.

It's called "Gate of Thunder Force".

That's probably only because Bmups sounds awful. Shumps doesn't sound bad to say, just a little silly. But really though, who cares what its called. He wasn't the one who started calling it Shmups. Obviously enough people use the term that we all know of it so its sort of here to stay. Personally i use Shoot Em Up whenever i'm referring to the genre. Seems like whenever i use Shooter people think i'm talking about First Person Shooters. This is all beside the point anyway as the thread is about good SHMUPS on Turbografx so lets talk about those! I don't want to have to click through 3 pages of Shmup vs Shoot em up vs Shooter talk whenever i pop on to learn about a new great shoot em up i may wanna play.

Shmups sounds horrible! I feel like a shmuck just saying it.

Toymachine? Same Toymachine that just sold me a sweet ass bundle of Turbo games? Lol, or is this another Toymachine? And yeah, it's a dumb word, I'm not denying that.

Different Toymachine. I don't part with obey easily

[SuperDeadite]

Cotton is cheap enough that I think all should try it, many claim it's way too difficult but I think it's just about right personally.

I'm still puzzled as to why Cotton has such a reputation for being difficult. Sure, the hitbox is larger than most, but there's not a lot of bullets to dodge anyway. Not to mention the PCE version gives you invincibility during magic attacks and has safespots against the tougher bosses. (Then again, most players don't even know about the fairy magic, so there is that to consider...)

Nonetheless, it's one of the all-time greats. The music alone makes the PCE version a must play.

I believe most people complain about your power level getting divided by half upon death.  A few deaths in a row and a lot of people just give up.  But I think anyone should be able to clear the first loop, just put both turbo switches on max and never stop firing.

Have you played the X68000 version?  It is not a simple arcade port, it is actually a remix version which contains an amazing amount of new content, including completely new boss fights.  Almost everything was changed up in some way, even the cloud enemies have new sprites.   An amazing version that rarely gets the recognition it deserves.  And if you want a real challenge, put the the difficulty on ''You Do!!'' mode and see if you can actually clear the first stage lol.

[TurboXray]

I love me some shoot 'em ups and shoot 'em sideways!

[o.pwuaioc]

I love me some shoot 'em ups and shoot 'em sideways!

Shmays? Shmideways?

[DQ187]

I love me some shoot 'em ups and shoot 'em sideways!

Shmays? Shmideways?

Hahaha, Shmays, perfect!

[esteban]

SHMAYS

[VenomMacbeth]

HI, BILLY SHMAYS HERE

[DQ187]

I'm so getting a shmay right now 

[EmperorIng]

Have you played the X68000 version?  It is not a simple arcade port, it is actually a remix version which contains an amazing amount of new content, including completely new boss fights.  Almost everything was changed up in some way, even the cloud enemies have new sprites.   An amazing version that rarely gets the recognition it deserves.  And if you want a real challenge, put the the difficulty on ''You Do!!'' mode and see if you can actually clear the first stage lol.

I never got too far in Cotton on the X68K, so this bit of news is exciting. I wish I didn't sell my Cotton 2 on the saturn; it's a pretty fun game.  I still need to find a deal on Cotton 1 SCD.

OT: I haven't played too many shmups on the PC-Engine, but the best I've played thus far is Dragon Saber. A huge improvement over Dragon Spirit in every way: faster dragon, smaller hitbox (it seems) autofire built in (thank goodness), a charge attack, and very creative levels. I am no doubt sure the arcade version is better, but this HuCard is one to remember.

[escarioth]

but the best I've played thus far is Dragon Saber. A huge improvement over Dragon Spirit in every way: faster dragon, smaller hitbox (it seems) autofire built in (thank goodness), a charge attack, and very creative levels. I am no doubt sure the arcade version is better, but this HuCard is one to remember.

OOOOOoooooh i totally forgot about this one 
damn...so many interesting titles on PC-engine.. i was limited to USA title for so long

[Spooky]

Have you played the X68000 version?  It is not a simple arcade port, it is actually a remix version which contains an amazing amount of new content, including completely new boss fights.  Almost everything was changed up in some way, even the cloud enemies have new sprites.   An amazing version that rarely gets the recognition it deserves.  And if you want a real challenge, put the the difficulty on ''You Do!!'' mode and see if you can actually clear the first stage lol.

Yeah I've played it, it's my favorite version of Cotton 1. I have a clear of normal mode uploaded on my channel even. Come to think of it, I think it was you that told me about the X68K port on some other forum a while back lol.

And yeah, "You Do!" mode is completely insane. Spamming barrier magic helps a bit, but even then the furthest I ever got on one credit was stage 3. I wouldn't be surprised if it was un-1ccable, sorta like Mania mode on Flame Zapper Kotsujin.

I wish I didn't sell my Cotton 2 on the saturn

Why would anyone do this (other than to put the funds towards Cotton Boomerang, of course?  )

[TurboXray]

I love me some shoot 'em ups and shoot 'em sideways!

Shmays? Shmideways?

Most definitely shmays!

[grolt]

Even if it is at my expense, I cannot deny the power of the SHMAY

[ClodBusted]

Shmay sounds like smears of smegma to me.

[GreatBlue Swirlof99]

Galaga'88? Is it good because I saw one for 5 or so bucks!

[grolt]

Galaga'88? Is it good because I saw one for 5 or so bucks!

I like it quite a bit. Less a bullet hell game and more a game that focuses on strategy and efficiency to clear off a screen. The game has a lot of personality with these adorable little space ballet ship dancing interludes and even mixes it up a bit with some scrolling stages to go along with the typical Galaga fixed perspective. Well worth the $5.

[WoodyXP]

Steam Hearts 4 lyfe.

[esteban]

Shmay sounds like smears of smegma to me.

It is.

And more.

[Otaking]

Hana Taka Daka! never gets any love. It's one of the best. 

[ToyMachine78]

You know... I do not understand all the hype and crazy prices of MUSHA. I think the soldier series smokes it!

Edit: Also why wasn't blazing Lazers/Gunhed a part of the soldier series? It has the same look and feel.

[CrackTiger]

You know... I do not understand all the hype and crazy prices of MUSHA. I think the soldier series smokes it!

Edit: Also why wasn't blazing Lazers/Gunhed a part of the soldier series? It has the same look and feel.

Gate of Thunder was made by people who worked on Thunder Force III.

Hudson probably just wanted to save the Star Soldier name for a proper sequel.

[ToyMachine78]

You know... I do not understand all the hype and crazy prices of MUSHA. I think the soldier series smokes it!

Edit: Also why wasn't blazing Lazers/Gunhed a part of the soldier series? It has the same look and feel.

Gate of Thunder was made by people who worked on Thunder Force III.

Hudson probably just wanted to save the Star Soldier name for a proper sequel.

I played TF 3 for the first time yesterday and it is obvious the two are related. First thing I thought. Gate is the better game IMO

[imparanoic]

You know... I do not understand all the hype and crazy prices of MUSHA. I think the soldier series smokes it!

Edit: Also why wasn't blazing Lazers/Gunhed a part of the soldier series? It has the same look and feel.

gunhed is not really part of the soldier series, seems to be made by compile in conjunction with Hudson soft, I feels it's semi prequel to aleste series

interesting enough, IMO, nezxr appears a semi sequel as it has similarities to super star soldier consider the co-developers interstate and kaneko worked on both, the difference, is that Hudson soft did not partner on this game and made soldier blade official sequel/ series to super star soldier

I note that a few years later in 1994, Hudson licensed bonk/pc genjin/pc kid to kaneko in similar fashion for the Japanese arcade version of bonk/pc genjin/pc kid which plays significantly different to any of the console bonk/pc genjin/pc kids

[majors]

I played TF 3 for the first time yesterday and it is obvious the two are related. First thing I thought. Gate is the better game IMO

[geise]

Wow I've been away a bit and people still need to make a topic about good pc-engine turbo shooters?  Are there not 459876098734506987657483909456 +1? topics about this already, plus youtube, plus romz?

[CrackTiger]

Wow I've been away a bit and people still need to make a topic about good pc-engine turbo shooters?  Are there not 459876098734506987657483909456 +1? topics about this already, plus youtube, plus romz?

Agreed, what we really need are more "What's it worth?" threads.

[TurboXray]

I played TF 3 for the first time yesterday and it is obvious the two are related. First thing I thought. Gate is the better game IMO

[T2KFreeker]

I'll probably get slammed for this, but I actually LOVE Super Star Soldier and also Cybercore and Sidearms. I know, they aren't perfect games, but they are very well made. Love that stuff. I remember when I was a kid, the first time I played Cybercore, that night I had a nightmare about giant bugs attacking me...LOL. More specifically the giant swooping Mosquito that shoots the I guess power bolts at you as he swoops in a "W" pattern on the screen. Crazy stuff. Yucky!

[Otaking]

I'll probably get slammed for this, but I actually LOVE Super Star Soldier and also Cybercore and Sidearms.

Super Star Soldier and Side Arms are generally considered top tier titles.
Cybercore is considered average. I don't mind it.

[esteban]

I'll probably get slammed for this, but I actually LOVE Super Star Soldier and also Cybercore and Sidearms. I know, they aren't perfect games, but they are very well made. Love that stuff. I remember when I was a kid, the first time I played Cybercore, that night I had a nightmare about giant bugs attacking me...LOL. More specifically the giant swooping Mosquito that shoots the I guess power bolts at you as he swoops in a "W" pattern on the screen. Crazy stuff. Yucky!

You are not crazy.

I actually love Sidearms (it is a great game...genuinely: some people get intimidated because the power-up mechanic is a bit tedious...but it was tedious in 1941, too...CRAP, I HIT THE POWER-UP ONE TOO MANY TIMES, I DON'T have time to cycle through again, damn it. Granted, this is intentional, the designers didn't want to make it easy, but they did want to provide you with a very varied selection of weapons, so cycling is a solution...I guess it just isn't as fun as it could be... )

and Cybercore (a solid Xevious mechanic with just enough character and brief moments of inspiration to prevent it from being generic...for example, some of the sound effects are perfect...like when you get hit and you drop down a level—I LOVE THAT SOUND EFFECT. I also love the way it feels when you power-up completely and bombard the ground with   a never-ending deluge of surface-air bombs/missiles (whatever they are)...I think the red? ship has the best concentrated wall of death).

[T2KFreeker]

The only downfall I see with Sidearms on the Turbo is the fact that it's only One Player. It was cool on other stuff due to there being the option for Multiple players like the arcade, but still, a solid game and my favorite version of the game, although, isn't there a CD version of the PC Engine? I have never seen it, so don't know what the differences may be.

Cybercore may be considered Average, but I used to play that game so much when I was younger.

After taking some time to revisit the Shooters of late though, I realize how horrible I am at them now. I used to be able to breeze through Super Star Soldier. Now I can barely make it past the first level anymore. It's sad. I needs practice!

[esteban]

The only downfall I see with Sidearms on the Turbo is the fact that it's only One Player. It was cool on other stuff due to there being the option for Multiple players like the arcade, but still, a solid game and my favorite version of the game, although, isn't there a CD version of the PC Engine? I have never seen it, so don't know what the differences may be.

Cybercore may be considered Average, but I used to play that game so much when I was younger.

After taking some time to revisit the Shooters of late though, I realize how horrible I am at them now. I used to be able to breeze through Super Star Soldier. Now I can barely make it past the first level anymore. It's sad. I needs practice!

You have to get Sidearms Special CD for the "B.C." Mode!

I don't want to spoil it for you.

Plus, the Red Book soundtrack is OK (the chiptunes actually might be better, but the soundtrack was never particularly amazing, IMHO. Soundtrack is OK. )

[T2KFreeker]

The only downfall I see with Sidearms on the Turbo is the fact that it's only One Player. It was cool on other stuff due to there being the option for Multiple players like the arcade, but still, a solid game and my favorite version of the game, although, isn't there a CD version of the PC Engine? I have never seen it, so don't know what the differences may be.

Cybercore may be considered Average, but I used to play that game so much when I was younger.

After taking some time to revisit the Shooters of late though, I realize how horrible I am at them now. I used to be able to breeze through Super Star Soldier. Now I can barely make it past the first level anymore. It's sad. I needs practice!

You have to get Sidearms Special CD for the "B.C." Mode!

I don't want to spoil it for you.

Plus, the Red Book soundtrack is OK (the chiptunes actually might be better, but the soundtrack was never particularly amazing, IMHO. Soundtrack is OK. )

I'll look into it. I'm just not down with paying Collectard prices...LOL. As lo9ng as it isn't stupid expensive, I can check it out. I haven't bought a CD ROM game in quite a bit of time, so it might be time to freshen things up a little here, I suppose. So, someone sell me a Sidearms CD, will you? LOL

[esteban]

^ Sidearms has historically been a cheap CD game.

[T2KFreeker]

^ Sidearms has historically been a cheap CD game.

Yeah, I checked earlier and was really happy to see that. I may indeed track it down now then! I'll also be looking for a few other games I want too that I don't have while I am at it.

[CrackTiger]

Sidearms Special has historically been a great pair of games on CD. Worth buying for the soundtrack alone.

[geise]

I have both and I surprisingly play the hucard more.  Both are worth having.  I actually prefer the chiptunes.  I am crazy.

[T2KFreeker]

I have both and I surprisingly play the hucard more.  Both are worth having.  I actually prefer the chiptunes.  I am crazy.

Why is that crazy? Nothing wrong with that. Just because it's on CD doesn't make it better. I'll give an example. Let me use Legendary Axe II...if it were a CD game, I'd probably still enjoy the Hu Card music more because it's so awesome. I don't know why that game sticks in my mind, but it really is that awesome. To me anyway. Just because it's chip tunes doesn't make it bad automatically...LOL

[Psycho Punch]

Yeah not all CD games have better soundtrack by default. One example is Lords of the Rising Sun, the overworld map screen's bgm is poorly made since it loops poorly and it makes the transition from any screen to the map more abrupt (specially considering most songs are slower paced in comparison to it).

The chiptunes from the PCE that beat CDROM digital audio are the reason that makes Arkhan insist in adding chiptune options in his cd-based games.

[CrackTiger]

I have both and I surprisingly play the hucard more.  Both are worth having.  I actually prefer the chiptunes.  I am crazy.

Why is that crazy? Nothing wrong with that. Just because it's on CD doesn't make it better. I'll give an example. Let me use Legendary Axe II...if it were a CD game, I'd probably still enjoy the Hu Card music more because it's so awesome. I don't know why that game sticks in my mind, but it really is that awesome. To me anyway. Just because it's chip tunes doesn't make it bad automatically...LOL

Most PCE games which have Hu and CD versions aren't the same except for music. Sidearms Special for example also adds some nice sampled sound effects to the main game, but also includes an entire separate remake with all new graphics and different gameplay.

Super Darius also adds some samples, but has a unique boss for each of the 26 stages, while Darius Plus has maybe half as many and the arcade has fewer still.

Super Raiden has some extra art and animation, plus 2 new stages.


R-Type is the best example of a CD version being pretty much a downgrade across the board compared to the TurboChip version. Daisenpu Custom and Bonk 3 CD are just overall inferior to the HuCard versions.

[grolt]

I have both and I surprisingly play the hucard more.  Both are worth having.  I actually prefer the chiptunes.  I am crazy.

Why is that crazy? Nothing wrong with that. Just because it's on CD doesn't make it better. I'll give an example. Let me use Legendary Axe II...if it were a CD game, I'd probably still enjoy the Hu Card music more because it's so awesome. I don't know why that game sticks in my mind, but it really is that awesome. To me anyway. Just because it's chip tunes doesn't make it bad automatically...LOL

Most PCE games which have Hu and CD versions aren't the same except for music. Sidearms Special for example also adds some nice sampled sound effects to the main game, but also includes an entire separate remake with all new graphics and different gameplay.

Super Darius also adds some samples, but has a unique boss for each of the 26 stages, while Darius Plus has maybe half as many and the arcade has fewer still.

Super Raiden has some extra art and animation, plus 2 new stages.


R-Type is the best example of a CD version being pretty much a downgrade across the board compared to the TurboChip version. Daisenpu Custom and Bonk 3 CD are just overall inferior to the HuCard versions.

What about Jack Nicklaus' Turbo Golf?  I saw the CD version on a YouTube clip and it looked just as terrible as the HuCard version other than some different tunes.  Does only the CD version have save compatibility?  Seems like such a terrible, outdated game to get two, nearly identical releases.

[esteban]

I have both and I surprisingly play the hucard more.  Both are worth having.  I actually prefer the chiptunes.  I am crazy.

Why is that crazy? Nothing wrong with that. Just because it's on CD doesn't make it better. I'll give an example. Let me use Legendary Axe II...if it were a CD game, I'd probably still enjoy the Hu Card music more because it's so awesome. I don't know why that game sticks in my mind, but it really is that awesome. To me anyway. Just because it's chip tunes doesn't make it bad automatically...LOL

Most PCE games which have Hu and CD versions aren't the same except for music. Sidearms Special for example also adds some nice sampled sound effects to the main game, but also includes an entire separate remake with all new graphics and different gameplay.

Super Darius also adds some samples, but has a unique boss for each of the 26 stages, while Darius Plus has maybe half as many and the arcade has fewer still.

Super Raiden has some extra art and animation, plus 2 new stages.


R-Type is the best example of a CD version being pretty much a downgrade across the board compared to the TurboChip version. Daisenpu Custom and Bonk 3 CD are just overall inferior to the HuCard versions.

What about Jack Nicklaus' Turbo Golf?  I saw the CD version on a YouTube clip and it looked just as terrible as the HuCard version other than some different tunes.  Does only the CD version have save compatibility?  Seems like such a terrible, outdated game to get two, nearly identical releases.

I don't have the CD Nicklaus, but I believe it has extra golf courses on it. That is worth it (I am one of the only people who enjoys ancient, decrepit,  slow golf games). 

[CrackTiger]

Yeah not all CD games have better soundtrack by default. One example is Lords of the Rising Sun, the overworld map screen's bgm is poorly made since it loops poorly and it makes the transition from any screen to the map more abrupt (specially considering most songs are slower paced in comparison to it).

The chiptunes from the PCE that beat CDROM digital audio are the reason that makes Arkhan insist in adding chiptune options in his cd-based games.

Lords of the Rising Sun isn't a good example of chip>CD music, since you're talking about a technical issue and there isn't a HuCard version. Plus that track is one of the many great features of the game and really motivates and makes it more exciting than other RTS games maps.

A much worse case of a technical issue affecting a crucial bgm is the battle music in Order of the Griffon. It cut's off after the first attack and fights can take a half hour. But this isn't an example of CD being better either, as again it's strictly a technical issue that is tge fault of the developer.


Another CD game with a similar upgrade as Sidearms Special is Populous the Promised Lands. You get the regular game and then an entire new and exclusive separate campaign with themes like Bomberman. It's the equivalent of a sequel.

Neo Nectaris is the same, as it contains the entire original.


The myth that CD games are nothing more than regular cart games with CD music and the occasional cinema was perpetuated by Nintendo fans during the 16 & 32-bit generations. Too many still argue this to this day.

[Psycho Punch]

I see BT, I was just trying to argue that not all CD games music are better than HuCards and vice-versa.

"CD games are nothing more than regular cart games with CD music and the occasional cinema."

In a way that's right, but only if you consider the "regular cart" as being a huge Neo-Geo style one with more than 4 gigabits of memory to do as you please. Except for maybe disc loading times it basically removes size restrictions for 16 bit console games entirely. But it's not like many people had the knowledge required to understand that back in the 90's.

[T2KFreeker]

Yeah...Nintendo Fanboys of that era really were annoying as all Hell. Sorry, but it's true. I* remember this one guy trying to argue that his Super NES Final Fight was so much better than our Sega CD version. He swore up and down that his version was superior because of sharper visuals and looked so much closer to the arcade version...we just saw envy in his eyes...


Back on topic...I remember the first time walking through Toy's "R" Us back in the day, seeing the Turbo Duo and getting to play the demo for Gate of Thunder! man, I was floored. It was so damn awesome. The graphics were just nice and that soundtrack was so appropriate for the time. I don't know what6 kind of speakers they had hooked up to that little Demo Kiosk, but ti was so throaty and based out, I just kept playing that level over and over again. I then walked over to the glass case to see the system and my heart sank when I saw the price of the system. I then walked across the store and saw the turbo CD system being clearanced out for $100.00 and was so mad because my Mom wouldn't take me to the store to buy one...just an all around bad day other than playing gate of thunder...LOL  I still love that game to this day. Awesome shooter and one of my all time favorite shooters...not just for the Turbo, but everywhere.

[CrackTiger]

The first time I saw Gate of Thunder in person I thought that it was a Neo Geo game. And not like, "what is, this like a Neo Geo game? Oh, it's a Turbo game". I had seen some screens in magazines and was as hardcore a game enthusiast as anyone. I was looking at a window display at a Radio Shack, that had 3 TVs, each one running a different console. Not only were Canadian Radio Shacks not connected to tge U.S. chain, but some brought in all kinds of game stuff from other sources. I saw a Genesis SNES and what looked like a Neo Geo demo and figured that this was one of the franchises that did what they want (this wasn't my hometown).

I remember what I thought and felt vividly, as it is tied to my realization that it was actually GoT the first tine I played it after I got a Duo and the memory was still fresh. I didn't pay GoT much attention, because I was interested in finding Turbo games that I couldn't buy at home and the AES was something I'd never get to play. I figured I'd try it out when/if it made it to the MVS back home. But I remember clearly that during my brief glimpses of the intro cinema and a couple stages, how it was obe of the nicest looking/most impressive Neo Geo games I'd seen, how the cinema character art had so many shades and some of that signature Beo Geo color that I wouldn't see on TG-16... and how impressive the only-in-arcades parallax was. I didn't stare too long, because it made me wish I could own a console and game like that.

[T2KFreeker]

The first time I saw Gate of Thunder in person I thought that it was a Neo Geo game. And not like, "what is, this like a Neo Geo game? Oh, it's a Turbo game". I had seen some screens in magazines and was as hardcore a game enthusiast as anyone. I was looking at a window display at a Radio Shack, that had 3 TVs, each one running a different console. Not only were Canadian Radio Shacks not connected to tge U.S. chain, but some brought in all kinds of game stuff from other sources. I saw a Genesis SNES and what looked like a Neo Geo demo and figured that this was one of the franchises that did what they want (this wasn't my hometown).

I remember what I thought and felt vividly, as it is tied to my realization that it was actually GoT the first tine I played it after I got a Duo and the memory was still fresh. I didn't pay GoT much attention, because I was interested in finding Turbo games that I couldn't buy at home and the AES was something I'd never get to play. I figured I'd try it out when/if it made it to the MVS back home. But I remember clearly that during my brief glimpses of the intro cinema and a couple stages, how it was obe of the nicest looking/most impressive Neo Geo games I'd seen, how the cinema character art had so many shades and some of that signature Beo Geo color that I wouldn't see on TG-16... and how impressive the only-in-arcades parallax was. I didn't stare too long, because it made me wish I could own a console and game like that.

That's almost funny...LOL. When I finally got a copy of Gate of Thunder, it wasn't until years later because i never did own the CD interface when I was younger and was way too poor to own the Turbo Duo. I can honestly say though that when I finally got my copy of Gate of Thunder, I was just as impressed with it then, as I was when I first saw it. This was also even after owning Lords of Thunder for the Sega CD. I like Lords of Thunder, but there really is something really awesome about Gate that makes me like it so much more. It's still one of the games I pull out and let people play that want to know what the big deal with the Turbografx is...and just that throaty, heavy metal, deep bass soundtrack makes a smile creep on most people's face. The game is a perfect example of how a shooter should be made. I look at the game now and see the imperfections here and there, but all in all, it's still one Hell of a ride. I sadly, have never beaten the game though. One day I will. I know I will. Funny as it is, it's one of my must own games that I actually own. I have most of them too, most notably missing Beyond Shadowgate though, sadly. That's a story for a whole new thread though as I no longer own it over stupid bungling on my part...