Forging VGA Grading

[esteban]

Ok, this was posted in the "Gouging" thread and I felt I was better to start a new thread.

not much of a gouge since its bids...but still so fucking gross
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281784635861&alt=web

Serious question:

I know that I could easily forge VGA grading. Surely others, with less skill, have attempted this?

Have you folks heard/read about this?


I would never actually scam for real, but it is incredibly easy (I would actually have to invest in getting an item or two graded so I could match the materials, ink, etc. (the feel) and not simply the aesthetics (the look).



TANGENT: I have watched some videos demonstrating a different issue—tricking the VGA grader (for example, swapping out manual for a different one, sealing it, and claiming it shipped like that).

[Sparky]

Were you a vegan?

[Mathius]

This is surely a contender for a Top 3 Worst Part of Retro Gaming list. Seriously I have no more words.

[o.pwuaioc]

Check out Dangerboy's video on the matter:

[seieienbu]

I think it'd be hilarious if a whole bunch of fake VGA things were sold, opened, and then a scandal happened where nothing was what was graded and the whole damn practice just went away.

...if only.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah. This can only be good for humanity.

[DragonmasterDan]

Ok, this was posted in the "Gouging" thread and I felt I was better to start a new thread.

not much of a gouge since its bids...but still so fucking gross
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281784635861&alt=web

Serious question:

I know that I could easily forge VGA grading. Surely others, with less skill, have attempted this?

Have you folks heard/read about this?


I would never actually scam for real, but it is incredibly easy (I would actually have to invest in getting an item or two graded so I could match the materials, ink, etc. (the feel) and not simply the aesthetics (the look).

TANGENT: I have watched some videos demonstrating a different issue—tricking the VGA grader (for example, swapping out manual for a different one, sealing it, and claiming it shipped like that).

I'm aware of someone who as a test send in a handful of games a few years ago, most were real sealed games but there were a pair of reseals with some noticeable but not overtly obvious signs of resealing. VGA had sent these back to him with a grade not realizing they were not legit.

[seieienbu]

I'm aware of someone who as a test send in a handful of games a few years ago, most were real sealed games but there were a pair of reseals with some noticeable but not overtly obvious signs of resealing. VGA had sent these back to him with a grade not realizing they were not legit.

Gee, that doesn't sound hard to pull a fast one at all.  Get a box to a rare NES game, use a copy of Top Gun and some manual for weight, reseal, then put it up as a real auction on ebay and that would guarantee a sale. 

I just don't trust these things an iota.  Where best to hide a secret than inside a box that will never be opened?

[DragonmasterDan]

Gee, that doesn't sound hard to pull a fast one at all.  Get a box to a rare NES game, use a copy of Top Gun and some manual for weight, reseal, then put it up as a real auction on ebay and that would guarantee a sale. 

I just don't trust these things an iota.  Where best to hide a secret than inside a box that will never be opened?

I BELIEVE VGA actually opens the boxes to inspect the contents (or so they claim) before they put the games in their tomb cases.

 In his case the two reseals were complete and in great condition. But the type of plastic used wasn't a perfect match for the original, the "H-seam" was also not quite matching the real ones.

[esteban]

Gee, that doesn't sound hard to pull a fast one at all.  Get a box to a rare NES game, use a copy of Top Gun and some manual for weight, reseal, then put it up as a real auction on ebay and that would guarantee a sale. 

I just don't trust these things an iota.  Where best to hide a secret than inside a box that will never be opened?

I BELIEVE VGA actually opens the boxes to inspect the contents (or so they claim) before they put the games in their tomb cases.

 In his case the two reseals were complete and in great condition. But the type of plastic used wasn't a perfect match for the original, the "H-seam" was also not quite matching the real ones.

The fact that the two fakes were in a group of legit seals helped make the entire batch, and the client, seem more trustworthy.

I'm not excusing VGA, but I think it helped create a situation where a the grader felt he/she was dealing with a a trustworthy individual.




We could easily create a competitor for VGA.

WE WILL CHARGE 5 times the price, and we reserve the right to reject clients. We will make it very exclusive.

[DragonmasterDan]

I'm not excusing VGA, but I think it helped create a situation where a the grader felt he/she was dealing with a a trustworthy individual.

Yes, but let's say the person just bought a bunch of supposedly sealed games from wherever and had no idea what was legit and what wasn't. This same kind of situation could occur by mistake as well, and VGA would still be grading reseals.

[esteban]

I'm not excusing VGA, but I think it helped create a situation where a the grader felt he/she was dealing with a a trustworthy individual.

Yes, but let's say the person just bought a bunch of supposedly sealed games from wherever and had no idea what was legit and what wasn't. This same kind of situation could occur by mistake as well, and VGA would still be grading reseals.

Oh, I totally agree.

Are there any competing services to VGA?

Clearly, VGA has earned some credibility and widespread brand recognition.

[DragonmasterDan]

Oh, I totally agree.

Are there any competing services to VGA?

Clearly, VGA has earned some credibility and widespread brand recognition.

I don't know about competitors but I'd imagine there are.

VGA was the first service to do this that I recall. And yes, they do have brand recognition. But their reputation, due to situations like I just described is dubious at best.

[wildfruit]

Oh my this is ultra rare out of millions
http://ebay.us/56ZonS
I offered £10 with a stipulation that the case be removed. Awaits response.
EDIT sorry slightly OT

[NecroPhile]

I BELIEVE VGA actually opens the boxes to inspect the contents (or so they claim) before they put the games in their tomb cases.

So all VGA games are guaranteed to no longer be new?

[DragonmasterDan]

So all VGA games are guaranteed to no longer be new?

I can't find a reference to this on their site, I don't own nor would I waste money on anything VGA graded to check. But I thought they opened but not tested the sealed packages that came their way. I COULD be mistaken, but I don't think I am.

[xcrement5x]

No, they don't open them.  The collectards would have a conniption if that was the case.

They just examine the outer shrink wrap and the condition of the box underneat to come up with a grade, it's what makes this process so more ridiculous.  You are basically just paying someone to grade a plastic film over cardboard or whatnot and determine if it's a reseal. 

And their "experts" are just employees that have been trained to look for red flags to my understanding.  They're not hiring collectors who have years of firsthand experience with this stuff.

[bob]

about a year ago i messaged a guy on ebay who was selling a hero tonma that was "bricked".  i told him if i bought it, i was going to find a way to open it so i could play it.
he messaged me back saying he would rather i dont buy it because he cant be responsible for whats inside.  he said the intent of selling it is to keep it exactly as is

[CGQuarterly]

about a year ago i messaged a guy on ebay who was selling a hero tonma that was "bricked".  i told him if i bought it, i was going to find a way to open it so i could play it.
he messaged me back saying he would rather i dont buy it because he cant be responsible for whats inside.  he said the intent of selling it is to keep it exactly as is

Wow.  He's basically admitting that there's a decent chance of it being a fraud.

[T2KFreeker]

This is the kind of crap I HATE. I hated it with Baseball Cards and Comic Books when they called it "Slabbing". I hate it with Action Figures and I feel it's Bullshit with Video Games too. The point of games is to be played. If I were a Millionaire with money to burn, I would buy a bunch of this shit and have the tardest of the Collectards over to my house to "Show Off" my collection, just to have a bunch of bikers run through the shit with Chains and sledge hammers and a flame thrower so I could record them all crying and having a conniption fit! Then I'd tell them I did it because I wanted to illustrate that at least I was getting enjoyment out of the games other than making a wall of plastic to sit and stare at while I stroke myself...just useless. Just wait, the next fad will be here soonm, I'm sure. I wonder what they will encase in Plexiglass Acrylic Hell next? Sealed CD's? How about rare sealed Records? You know, we have had those since God knows and they are rare as Hell, right? How about rare bottle caps? Ooooh, those original iPODS are worth so damn much! They are R@R3Z!!!! Stupid.

[Mathius]

This is the kind of crap I HATE. I hated it with Baseball Cards and Comic Books when they called it "Slabbing". I hate it with Action Figures and I feel it's Bullshit with Video Games too. The point of games is to be played. If I were a Millionaire with money to burn, I would buy a bunch of this shit and have the tardest of the Collectards over to my house to "Show Off" my collection, just to have a bunch of bikers run through the shit with Chains and sledge hammers and a flame thrower so I could record them all crying and having a conniption fit! Then I'd tell them I did it because I wanted to illustrate that at least I was getting enjoyment out of the games other than making a wall of plastic to sit and stare at while I stroke myself...just useless. Just wait, the next fad will be here soonm, I'm sure. I wonder what they will encase in Plexiglass Acrylic Hell next? Sealed CD's? How about rare sealed Records? You know, we have had those since God knows and they are rare as Hell, right? How about rare bottle caps? Ooooh, those original iPODS are worth so damn much! They are R@R3Z!!!! Stupid.

I'm glad you got that off my chest. I feel so much better. Seriously.

[SignOfZeta]

Seriously, how can we make this happen? What can we, a forum of haters, do to precipitate the decline of VGA type mentalities?

[o.pwuaioc]

Seriously, how can we make this happen? What can we, a forum of haters, do to precipitate the decline of VGA type mentalities?

Start our own competing grading agency.

[Mathius]

Seriously, how can we make this happen? What can we, a forum of haters, do to precipitate the decline of VGA type mentalities?

Start our own competing grading agency.

That's fighting fire with fire. Something that will turn people off VGA grading is what needs to happen. We need to go in the opposite direction.

[o.pwuaioc]

Seriously, how can we make this happen? What can we, a forum of haters, do to precipitate the decline of VGA type mentalities?

Start our own competing grading agency.

That's fighting fire with fire. Something that will turn people off VGA grading is what needs to happen. We need to go in the opposite direction.

Launch a widespread attack? Show everyone everywhere just why VGA is bullshit? Ridicule people for having them though would probably have the opposite effect.

[Mathius]

Seriously, how can we make this happen? What can we, a forum of haters, do to precipitate the decline of VGA type mentalities?

Start our own competing grading agency.

That's fighting fire with fire. Something that will turn people off VGA grading is what needs to happen. We need to go in the opposite direction.

Launch a widespread attack? Show everyone everywhere just why VGA is bullshit? Ridicule people for having them though would probably have the opposite effect.

Reverse psychology? Make a "serious" video showing a real collectard in his natural habitat but in the end make it so extreme that it makes other collectards feel ashamed of themselves?

[T2KFreeker]

The only way to stop it is to stop the machine, which sadly isn't going to happen. As long as shit storms like evilbay continue the rise of the collectard lifestyle, then it will never stop. All people do not is collect and flip, collect and flip, and not just Video Games either. Seriously...look around you. Everything is about, Hey, I wonder what this will be worth down the road? Buy, Buy, Buy! Don't save any money, Limited Edition...Blah, Blah, Blah. I love the "Limited Edition Reproduction" Bullshit too. Like a copy of something that's rare will be worth monies? And you know what's sad? people pay for them and try and sell them. The owners of our Pawn Shop in the area get's all kinds of stuff like that coming through the door. I remember when I was doing Video game reviews and I got a Retro Duo in Limited Edition Red and Gold...yeah,,,the Nintenclones are so collectible...I can't wait to see one of those VGA Graded and slabbed. I guess maybe if you started slabbing crap that nobody would want so they see how silly it looks...something like Avon Jewelry and accessories...yeah...Magazine Scent ads...that kind of crap. And then when they talk shit, you point out, what makes your sealed piece of crap game anymore valuable than my Channel Ada From Maxim 2005? it's rare and you can still smell it through the case too! Or, how about an Unsqueezed roll of Charmin from 1972 with a 9.9 mint rating? That way, you can wipe your ass with it after you've wasted the money on it? 

[Gredler]

Heard tobias is starting his own grading company, but they just make everything and sell it in unopenable packaging. The pastic covering / case / slab is solid opaque matte black, to prevent from UV damage.  That guy thinks of everything.

[ClodBusted]

Start our own competing grading agency.

Let's call it Turbo-Sealz.

[esteban]

A new service for the collectard who wishes to have nerd-cred for actually playing his games:

(1) Clients send me mint, sealed games
(2) I open them
(3) I create a fake "patina" on them to simulate the "worn" aesthetic that results from somewhat careless heavy-playing.
(4) I will actually play the games, with needless and gratuitous restarting, removal and re-insertion of the media (card, cart, CD)
(5) I will have trays of sand, dirt, cat-litter, dog hair, Nutella, etc. in my laboratory to create the desired "patina"

For an additional charge:
(1) Fingerprints can be strategically, and thoughtfully, added to cart/CD (client's choice of flan, burger grease, and/or honey-mustard dipping sauce)

Start our own competing grading agency.

Let's call it Turbo-Sealz.

I like it.

[T2KFreeker]

Heard tobias is starting his own grading company, but they just make everything and sell it in unopenable packaging. The pastic covering / case / slab is solid opaque matte black, to prevent from UV damage.  That guy thinks of everything.

There you go! And in the commercial, he can play the "I Wear My Sunglasses At Night" song to make it extra special cool too! You are right, he does think of everything. Oh, and every graded game comes with a special UV Coated energy drink too that will give you the power of X-Ray vision so you can see through the black coated plastic and see what's in there!

[Mathius]

Estaban, don't forget the UV light to simulate years of sun fade.

[esteban]

Estaban, don't forget the UV light to simulate years of sun fade.

OMG, I almost forgot about that! Damn.

[Gentlegamer]

There is a thread at Nintendo Age asking about having sealed amiibo graded.

That's not a joke.

[Mathius]

There is a thread at Nintendo Age asking about having sealed amiibo graded.

That's not a joke.

If I was any less surprised by that I would be dead.

[shonenx]

Slabbed Games and comics are a resellers niche that will eventually burst like the other collector bubbles of the past. Im starting to see comics that are slabbed drop in price or be sold "accepting best offers" due to the fact that these "collectors" were only there for the money and now need to cash in on their junk bonds, as long as we all don't show them interest or even offer them low prices when we see them at Cons or other markets we can form a united wave that will eventually wear them down. its not gonna be over night thou.
 Unfortunately this hobby is now a full blown market and we see the over inflated prices even at swap-meets. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of brick and mortar shops that don't over charge, but get picked clean by resellers.

[KnightWarrior]

I hate VGA Stuff

[esteban]

I hate VGA Stuff

Agreed.

[Dicer]

I hate VGA Stuff

Tripled...

[ClodBusted]

Often when I read VGA, I initially think of the computer monitor signal/cable/connector with the same name instead of a fraudulent organization.

So why all the hate for a poor cable?

[esteban]

Often when I read VGA, I initially think of the computer monitor signal/cable/connector with the same name instead of a fraudulent organization.

So why all the hate for a poor cable?

Hahagaga.

CGA
VGA
EGA

[xcrement5x]

Often when I read VGA, I initially think of the computer monitor signal/cable/connector with the same name instead of a fraudulent organization.

So why all the hate for a poor cable?

Hahagaga.

CGA
VGA
EGA

And CGA is those people who do comics

[Mathius]

Vaginal Gross-out Association

[esteban]

Vaginal Grind (Amazing)

[wilykat]

You left out XGA 

[esteban]

You left out XGA 

And PGA.