Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!

[Game-Tech.US]

Somethings I want to know, because evidently I missed this initially:

Does this upgrade completely replace the audio coming out of the cpu? As in, does it take over handling of the audio, and emulates it?

Per what you stated prior:

Built in overclocking with option to not have it mess up the sound pitch.


All audio is generated in the kit, so it will be %100 digital and theoretically noise free.
User will be able to control each audio channel from the menu.
You will be able to adjust left and right volume output of each channel independently.
Most expansion audio chips will also be programmed in to the kit and we hope to auto detect which one will be needed for a game that is being played, but may also have the option to turn each on and off.
Currently working: normal nes audio, fds, N106, mmc5, and sunsoft 5B.
VRC7 is still a maybe...
5.1 and 7.1 is also a maybe...

So if the audio is just emulated, how close to the original does it sound? And how will this work with games like Akumajo Densetsu?

Concerning the PPU side of things:

Aspect ratio will be user adjustable in the menu, seen as horizontal stretch in the menu in the vid.

A few palettes will be included and user selectable in the menu.
Custom palettes can be uploaded to the nesHD using a flash cart etc.

Scanlines will be included....

Is the original PPU actually doing anything in the end result, or is this upgrade being put in between the PPU and pcb, and does it just take over the image processing side of things? I ask this due to reading your statement concerning the new color pallet and scan-line options and all.

IF so, this basically means the visual side is being emulated by new hardware, correct, not just upscaling the original composite signal generated by the PPU? So what exactly does the kit need the old PPU for?

This brings me to the whole emulation aspect of it all. If this thing is just replacing the original audio with emulated audio, and replacing the ppu generated composite with a new emulated image with scan-line and color palette options, what makes the end result any different then using something like a Retron 5 clone system, or something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-Famicom-2-game-machine-Outputs-VGA-RGB-S-VIDEO-AV-With-scanlines-/271948293299?hash=item3f5161a4b3

I mean, if your not using the original audio or video signal anymore for anything, then the core of the system has basically been turned into a clone system, other then a Nintendo made PCB, system shell, and gamepads. I know it sounds dirty to put it like that, but when you state its not a clone, but then go about replacing original aspects of the hardware with emulated ones, basically that is cloning to achieve a end result.

Part of what made the Nes/Famicom special was that unique sound and look generated by the original cpu and ppu, so why would I want to replace this? Pretend I am a potential customer and convince me as to why your product would be the better replacement, as opposed to a Retron 5, the pcb in the auction, or just going with something like the NESRGB kit.

I initially thought this was just some upscaler pcb that was going to act like a cheap upscaler option, taking the composite video and cleaning it up some and upscaling it while using the original audio as an audio source, but evidently I was way off in thinking that. I should have read the initial postings about this upgrade.

Kevtris isn't a member here and can't even see these post so I asked him to reply:

I "digitally recreate" the sound because I have to make a digital version of it for HDMI.  The only other option would be to do audio capture, but that is lame because it would introduce noise.   the decision to "digitally recreate" the audio was not taken lightly, and produces the best end result.

The PPU is rendering 100% of the video.  The hi-def nes captures the digital video on the PPU's EXP pins.  The other things (scalers, scanlines) are just added on after capturing the video because I can.   I have to "lie" to the PPU to turn on the EXP pins and change the palette going to the chip so that the video pin can be used to capture the 5th palette entry bit.

You can watch the video coming out of the PPU to see how this works.  the sprites will be white and the background black.    The RGBNES board works in a very similar manner.  I think it uses white and grey, though.  It also extracts the video in the same manner I do.

The NES CPU is still rendering the audio, you can listen in if you like.  The benefit of regenerating it digitally is cleaner audio, and if you overclock the CPU, the audio pitch won't change (you can turn this on/off).  If you listen to the analog audio during overclocking, the pitch will shift.

Since the NES CPU is still running the game code, and the NES PPU is still rendering ALL the video (the HDN does not render video) then it isn't a clone system.  Adding audio rendering to the FPGA simply was required to get the highest quality HDMI possible.    If you remove the CPU or PPU, the device will no longer work.   If it was a "clone system" it should be possible to remove either or both chips and have the system continue to function.  This of course is not the case.

End quote.

I believe the retron 5 has been proven to be an android OS running emulators, in fact I think several of the emulators allegedly infringe on the rights of multiple emulator authors:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/09/hyperkins_retron_5_console_allegedly_infringes_on_the_rights_of_multiple_emulator_authors
I never heard if there was any resolution of this issue though...

It does appear that famicom kit has a UMC cpu clone chip, which we also tested a cpu/ppu pair on the hi-def and they worked like originals. I pulled them from a brazillian clone I have. The video looks to be recreated on a fpga.

Also, the kit will do all expansion audio chips without there even being original exp audio chips/circuits present, only the mapper needs to be on the cart, but you do have to turn them on in the hi-def's menu. CV3 uses vrc6 swap, and iirc it's the only game that does, but it's there!

[Medic_wheat]

You know Game-Tech.US, I really want to ask, because I remember dropping you a pm prior about one of your region mod pcbs and you not wanting to sell it or whatever, do you even actually sell any of the stuff you guys come up with? Or do you just come on to forums and try to get attention about it so you can use the free advertising to sell your premodded systems & mod work only?

Because honestly this doesn't feel like an effort being made to help any given community, here or elsewhere. It just comes off as a giant push towards lining ones wallet, both yours and the guys at Analogue Nt. I mean seriously, ebay and $300 minimum bids? Totally disgusting. If I had known this was your end game, the way you planned to release this shit, I'd have simply said fuck off from jump street and stopped paying any kind of attention to this. Total fucking waste of time.

Yup region mod pcb are still coming, in fact the tg-16 only version, the one that worked fine with the TED from the start, should be for sale soon. When I get time to make a vid about it i'll post it.
The duo/r/x version seems to work fine with the TED in US and JP duo/r/x's, but still not in the white pce or coregrafx so it was once again recently sent to thesteve to see if he could uncover a fix, if not it will prolly still be sold as for use with duo and duo-r/x only or not with TED on other consoles. I just keep wondering if ppl will even want it for pce systems since system cards are about the only thing the TED won't do so why bother trying to make it work on jp consoles?

Oh and the NT 'partnership' had nothing to do with me, in fact I wasn't told about it till everyone else already knew as well.
Already explained the $300 start bid reasoning as well, scroll back up to see that.

That's odd. And I ask only because there is a flailing robot in my head saying "does not comput!" 

Maybe because I don't know the ins and outs of your channel review tech USA and how you work with Krevious (sorry if I junked up his name) but.

Aren't you two working together on the HD upgrade kit for the NES? 

So any decisions made on how the board it distributed or sold as well as supply and demand for it has to be a joint desision?

I vaguely remember you mentioning doing an exclusivity deal with Stone Age Gamer for these kits. If that was the case then yeah you'd have to be just as informed as your partner.


But like I said I don't know the full story or big picture. Maybe you just do the moding and have a back log of systems to mod and flip to keep these projects going and anything the developer of the board does is his own thing.

So let's say you where not aware about the partnership with Nt.

Where did the money earned from the deal go?

Why are they offering it at $75 installed instead of $120 stand alone kit?

Where does this place your HD NES kit with other potential distributors like Stone Age now that you have some sort of exclusivity deal with Nt and their NES system? 

I ask simply because I have interest. This isn't to flame anyone or point and scream like a pod person.

[SephirothTNH]

That's odd. And I ask only because there is a flailing robot in my head saying "does not comput!" 

Maybe because I don't know the ins and outs of your channel review tech USA and how you work with Krevious (sorry if I junked up his name) but.

Aren't you two working together on the HD upgrade kit for the NES? 

So any decisions made on how the board it distributed or sold as well as supply and demand for it has to be a joint desision?

I was kind of shocked by this as well.  But Kevtris did do all the work.  I think Jason simply had the initial idea.  It is Kevtris's product though.  I guess Jason doesn't really get a say in what Kev does with it.  Which I'm not going to judge because I don't know how their relationship is/was setup. 

*just for future readers sake.  Gametech usa and review tech usa are two different youtubers.  Review Tech USA has nothing to do with this.   

Why are they offering it at $75 installed instead of $120 stand alone kit?

This is just speculation but obviously when you buy 400 of something it costs you less per unit than buying 1 of something.  So this really shouldn't be shocking.  Beyond that maybe kevtris sold them with no tech support intended.  Like you can have them at this price but once I ship them I wash my hands of it.  Only Kevtris and Analogue knows the nature of that deal.  Also maybe analogue is just willing to swallow some of those costs since your buying this on top of a $500 NES. 

But maybe your surprised because analogue is such a shitty company?  In that case I agree; why aren't they selling the upgrade for $120 or more.  The systems aren't out yet though so there's still time for them to change it.

[Medic_wheat]

That's odd. And I ask only because there is a flailing robot in my head saying "does not comput!" 

Maybe because I don't know the ins and outs of your channel review tech USA and how you work with Krevious (sorry if I junked up his name) but.

Aren't you two working together on the HD upgrade kit for the NES? 

So any decisions made on how the board it distributed or sold as well as supply and demand for it has to be a joint desision?

I was kind of shocked by this as well.  But Kevtris did do all the work.  I think Jason simply had the initial idea.  It is Kevtris's product though.  I guess Jason doesn't really get a say in what Kev does with it.  Which I'm not going to judge because I don't know how their relationship is/was setup. 

*just for future readers sake.  Gametech usa and review tech usa are two different youtubers.  Review Tech USA has nothing to do with this.   

Why are they offering it at $75 installed instead of $120 stand alone kit?

This is just speculation but obviously when you buy 400 of something it costs you less per unit than buying 1 of something.  So this really shouldn't be shocking.  Beyond that maybe kevtris sold them with no tech support intended.  Like you can have them at this price but once I ship them I wash my hands of it.  Only Kevtris and Analogue knows the nature of that deal.  Also maybe analogue is just willing to swallow some of those costs since your buying this on top of a $500 NES. 

But maybe your surprised because analogue is such a shitty company?  In that case I agree; why aren't they selling the upgrade for $120 or more.  The systems aren't out yet though so there's still time for them to change it.

Lol man here I am mixing up YouTube channels. Thanks for the clarification.

[PCEngineHell]

much tech stuff kinda quoted...

With the audio then I guess my concern would be just how close to the original it sounds. I'm fairly picky about this. So are many other people. Its not much different the with the Genesis early Model 1 revisions audio compared to the later ones or the Model 2, or compared to emulation. TBH I hate most of the Model 2 revisions audio, along with emulators, but you will still have people insisting it sounds fine, and close to the original, when it does not in any way, shape, or form. It is only passable at best when compared to initial Model 1 revisions.

So I guess this is something that would be interesting to see/listen to some side by sides done. This includes running games like Akumajo Densetsu and FDS games running off a legit FDS, to compare the audio quality to.

[sirhcman]

wow $310 starting bid? ouch

$200 less then the nt without the HD UPGRADE.

It appears these are selling for more than what the NT with HD upgrade is/was for the most part. Looks like he just posted another batch to sell on ebay as well. Personally I can't believe people would waste that much on this.

[PCEngineHell]

Its a bullshit cash grab, and I suspect the auctions will continue to happen for a little while as long as the stupid high bids continue. I don't like how Game-Tech pretends to not know whats going on with the business side of things on this when he is the one doing these cash grab auctions for Kevtris and spams multiple forums about this thing. The fact that he thinks we cant see through that kind of crap is kind of insulting. You don't go out of your way like this for someone unless you have a decent stake in the profits.

[wildfruit]

What happened to when you want to start a business do it yourself?
Go to the bank, show bank manager your business proposal and ask for a start up loan. Why does everything now have to be kickstarter or first consumers test bed? Pisses me off.

[PCEngineHell]

What happened to when you want to start a business do it yourself?
Go to the bank, show bank manager your business proposal and ask for a start up loan. Why does everything now have to be kickstarter or first consumers test bed? Pisses me off.

With that there are major consequences to your credit rating, etc, if you fail. On kickstarter or like using idiots as your test subjects on an unproven product, there is less financial risk.

[Game-Tech.US]

Some of the Analogue NT's have made it out to customers.
Here's a link to one guy's review of it with the Hi-Def kit installed:
http://filthypants.blogspot.com/2015/08/analogue-nt-hdmi-first-look.html

[PCEngineHell]

Some of the Analogue NT's have made it out to customers.
Here's a link to one guy's review of it with the Hi-Def kit installed:
http://filthypants.blogspot.com/2015/08/analogue-nt-hdmi-first-look.html

Hardly anyone cares about Analogue NT products here. Jesus, you are pretty out of touch with this forum...

[Game-Tech.US]

I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in pcengine-fx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat...
Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.

[PCEngineHell]

You dont get it though. No one is pleased with the stupid auctions you are running, and the whole thing about thinking we are naive about you and Kevtris and the financial side of things. Combine this with even slight promoting of another item here that not many give a flying fuck about, other then collectards, and things start to stack up that will start to piss people off. It's like you don't even realize you're poking a hornets nest.

People pretty much expected this to just be a kit that would be released that they could buy and install themselves, similar to the NESRGB. Instead you guys are doing a totally ridiculous cash grab launch, forcing people who want it to have to pick between your ebay auctions or an Analogue NT product. The only people you are winning over at this point are idiots with cash to burn. Everyone else is just like wtf....

As for the free slight advertising for the NT, seriously, look at this thread first before deciding to promote that item:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18458.msg390455#msg390455

I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at that and realize its not smart to promote the NT around here, regardless of if it uses your product or not (and god forbid you make the same mistake on the Neo forums). Worse so in fact that you chose to supply Analogue instead of just providing said boards to normal users so they could just buy them outright and install them, or choose a person of their liking to install them for them in their own systems.

What also kind of bothers me is there is not really much of a field test going on with this final batch of boards you got in. Honestly before even doing a launch there should have been some 4-5 month quality testing done. Instead you're using analogue customers and ebay idiots to test the product. That in itself is pretty scary given the price and the fact that youre not advertising a free extended warranty on the auctions (like a 6 month return/service policy).

Also, still waiting for that sound comparison video....

[esteban]

I, too, am curious to hear the sound comparison video/MP3

I recognize that tough choices were made for the audio concerning HDMI...I am genuinely interested in the final output.

[Game-Tech.US]

Yeah i'm not sure what the best way is to do a sound comparison. I doubt I have the proper equipment. If I just did it with what I have, I doubt it would be quality enough for ppl that could really distinguish between them if there was anything to hear. Any ideas?

[PCEngineHell]

Yeah i'm not sure what the best way is to do a sound comparison. I doubt I have the proper equipment. If I just did it with what I have, I doubt it would be quality enough for ppl that could really distinguish between them if there was anything to hear. Any ideas?

Any given tv with HDMI that is worth its weight in gold should have RCA audio out. Unless your Tv has a surround or 3D audio feature turned on, the audio should be untouched and come out line level. You could use that as a source to record audio off a Hi-Def Nes from, and just use the RCA audio output on a regular Nes or AV modded Famicom for test.

Test games like an original cart of Akumajo Densetsu. The actual AV Famicom has issues with Akumajo Densetsu unless you do a fix, so if you plan to use a AV Famicom for recording normal audio out, do the fix prior. Be sure to use a wide varity of carts, like TMNT 2 Arcade Game, Rygar, Super Mario 3, etc. This way people can compare the pitch, bass quality, etc.

I could even record games I have here audio wise for your comparison. The only thing I would not be able to record is the HI-DEF Nes audio out, for obvious reasons (Though my Toshiba has RCA audio out, I dont have a Hi-Def here to record).

[cjameslv]

I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in pcengine-fx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat...
Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.

Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.

[PCEngineHell]

I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in pcengine-fx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat...
Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.

Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.

The section of the forum isn't the problem, the product he was promoting is. The way the things launch is being handled is a pity. But then again, you'd not see a problem, being you and all. The last thing Game-Tech and Kevtris needs is a guy like you starting a white knight crusade. It'll just make the situation uglier.

[PunkCryborg]

I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in pcengine-fx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat...
Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.

Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.

The section of the forum isn't the problem, the product he was promoting is. The way the things launch is being handled is a pity. But then again, you'd not see a problem, being you and all. The last thing Game-Tech and Kevtris needs is a guy like you starting a white knight crusade. It'll just make the situation uglier.

You are the only one with a problem. I know there are lots of people who read this that are very interested in this product and updares on it's developement. It's not like he is just copy pasting stuff from other forums and selling the NES's here for $700. He is providing interesting information and answering everyone's questions. You are not the boice of the forum, you are just being a bully and need to chill out.

[CrackTiger]

I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in pcengine-fx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat...
Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.

Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.

The section of the forum isn't the problem, the product he was promoting is. The way the things launch is being handled is a pity. But then again, you'd not see a problem, being you and all. The last thing Game-Tech and Kevtris needs is a guy like you starting a white knight crusade. It'll just make the situation uglier.

You are the only one with a problem. I know there are lots of people who read this that are very interested in this product and updares on it's developement. It's not like he is just copy pasting stuff from other forums and selling the NES's here for $700. He is providing interesting information and answering everyone's questions. You are not the boice of the forum, you are just being a bully and need to chill out.

Copy pasting spammage across multiple forums is EXACTLY what he's doing.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?28888-NESHD-a-1080p-HDMI-mod-kit!

http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=138177

http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5626.0

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52216

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/231812-neshd-a-1080p-hdmi-mod-kit/


But we have several members (like BigAl) who only drop in to cross-spam their sales and misc content. Many of which are advertising high priced items. This thread is no different.

Most people are only here to buy/sell/trade anyway, while the minority of us actually talk about PC Engine and games.

[Game-Tech.US]

I just remembered Kevin's first vid was a capture, mostly to show it working in 720p, but it prolly has a better audio track than i'll get with my equipment.

[PCEngineHell]

I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in pcengine-fx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat...
Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.

Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.

The section of the forum isn't the problem, the product he was promoting is. The way the things launch is being handled is a pity. But then again, you'd not see a problem, being you and all. The last thing Game-Tech and Kevtris needs is a guy like you starting a white knight crusade. It'll just make the situation uglier.

You are the only one with a problem. I know there are lots of people who read this that are very interested in this product and updares on it's developement. It's not like he is just copy pasting stuff from other forums and selling the NES's here for $700. He is providing interesting information and answering everyone's questions. You are not the boice of the forum, you are just being a bully and need to chill out.

Seriously??? Man are you fucking blind or got tunnel vision directed at only my account postings.... Go back and read. Multiple people are irked or feeling questionable/suspicious about the auction shit, the multiple forum spamming (which is why I mentioned he best not do it on the Neo forums), no extended quality test, and other things. I'm just the only one posting about it this afternoon. You're fucking quick to post, but dont take the time to figure out wtf is going on. Lol @ you.

I just remembered Kevin's first vid was a capture, mostly to show it working in 720p, but it prolly has a better audio track than i'll get with my equipment.

Thats cool, but you need a better selection then that for audio comparison. Try to put something together and get back with us on it.

I know it's not a nintendo forum, but I love this forum, been coming here for 12 plus years, but I did post this in pcengine-fx.com » Non-NEC Console Related Discussion » Console Chat...
Plus it's more of a review of the Hi-Def kit so I didn't see a problem posting about it.

Yep this would be the right area to post, i don't see any issues.

The section of the forum isn't the problem, the product he was promoting is. The way the things launch is being handled is a pity. But then again, you'd not see a problem, being you and all. The last thing Game-Tech and Kevtris needs is a guy like you starting a white knight crusade. It'll just make the situation uglier.

You are the only one with a problem. I know there are lots of people who read this that are very interested in this product and updares on it's developement. It's not like he is just copy pasting stuff from other forums and selling the NES's here for $700. He is providing interesting information and answering everyone's questions. You are not the boice of the forum, you are just being a bully and need to chill out.

Copy pasting spammage across multiple forums is EXACTLY what he's doing.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?28888-NESHD-a-1080p-HDMI-mod-kit!

http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=138177

http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5626.0

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52216

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/231812-neshd-a-1080p-hdmi-mod-kit/


But we have several members (like BigAl) who only drop in to cross-spam their sales and misc content. Many of which are advertising high priced items. This thread is no different.

Most people are only here to buy/sell/trade anyway, while the minority of us actually talk about PC Engine and games.

These days it really seems like it. The selling/advertising shits gotten old. Me thinks a small extended vacation from the forum now and then is coming up soon. Less log ins so that maybe there will be new content when I do jump back in.

[Game-Tech.US]

Thats cool, but you need a better selection then that for audio comparison. Try to put something together and get back with us on it.

I'll see if he can do some other game captures. Might even try to get a 1080p capture card.
Did the smb2 vid sound good to you?

[PCEngineHell]

Thats cool, but you need a better selection then that for audio comparison. Try to put something together and get back with us on it.

I'll see if he can do some other game captures. Might even try to get a 1080p capture card.
Did the smb2 vid sound good to you?

Yes actually it did out of my LCD speakers. Id need to listen to a real cart of it though to compare it to and to use better speakers then the Toshiba stock ones. On something like a sound comparison I'd rather use headphones or my Altec Lansings. I don't have a SMB2 cart on hand though. I did not bother to rebuy the game since I have Mario All Stars, so comparing that game is not possible for me. I could actually give you a list of what I have, and make audio recordings of them for you, and you could do ones of said titles on the HDMI side of things to compare to.


Per above prior comment though, you guys need to seriously consider offering a free 6 month service warranty on the ebay systems you're selling. Since you have not done an extended quality test on the newest pcb launch batches and people are having to pay so much to access this product, the current situation is not cool. Don't use your customers as guinea pigs and not provide something like that.

This is new tech you are introducing, and you are rushing the release without proper testing of the final product. You owe your customers some kind of guarantee of service in this case. It doesn't have to be a "100 percent satisfied or your money back" kind of situation, but do some kind of free 6 month service warranty.

You went out of your way to rag on Drakon and expose his poor service and him not guaranteeing his product with free reliable repairs, so I mean its time for you to do the same here. And not behind the scenes either. Put it in your auctions publicly or whatever to build customer confidence in this product. If you are completely confident in the product, you would have no problem doing this.

[BigusSchmuck]

I may be late to the game here, but why spend all this $$$ just to turn your nes into displaying 1080p and digital sound? Kind of scratching my head here on that one..

[esteban]

I may be late to the game here, but why spend all this $$$ just to turn your nes into displaying 1080p and digital sound? Kind of scratching my head here on that one..

I hear you!



NO NEED FOR ANY IF THIS FINNICKY CRAP
I am old-school, so I feel the same way about RGB mods! (on economic and philosophical grounds).



CURIOSITY and/or CONVENIENCE 
Of course, I do understand the desire to simplify your life and use ONE MONITOR for all entertainment needs (in this case, HDTV). Folks are willing to compromise in the name of convenience.


PERSONALLY 
After 10-15 years, I myself and getting close to getting some RGB mods...just because I am damn curious...but clearly, I am happy with my current s-video/component level of quality on CRT.

[cjameslv]

PERSONALLY 
After 10-15 years, I myself and getting close to getting some RGB mods...just because I am damn curious...but clearly, I am happy with my current s-video/component level of quality on CRT.

Since most of the older systems output rbg natively (although or obey needs a slight boost to these signals) it is amazing to see what difference it makes. Nothing beats obeying in rgb!

I personally don't like the idea of nes on a lcd, how retro can the experience be if its in hd? At that point i feel you might as well go emulation (xbox, mame, ect) and play it. I experimented quite a long time with lcds and retro gaming and imo they don't mix. So crt for me!

[PCEngineHell]

Recorded it this afternoon. You can start with this Game-Tech for making a comparison video.


Per the above statements, CRT's wont be around forever, nor will the repair techs that are still willing to service them. Its at that point now where it is a good idea to invest in alternate methods, whether that be linedoubler/upscaler units, component video mods, or HDMI mods to use on current monitor technology. I have my own crt monitors here, but I am not going to fool myself, having the ability to properly display the stuff on a decent LCD for a back up plan is kind of a must if you plan to game in the relatively long term.

[wildfruit]

I think I would describe the sound as "crisper" trying to go deep back into memories of smb2. Maybe it even sounds "better"?
Still, RGB is they way to go for any pre HDMI console.
If you have a mega drive you MUST try it. So sharp and clean.

[PCEngineHell]

I think I would describe the sound as "crisper" trying to go deep back into memories of smb2. Maybe it even sounds "better"?
Still, RGB is they way to go for any pre HDMI console.
If you have a mega drive you MUST try it. So sharp and clean.

Crisper and better on original hardware, or on the Hi-Def Nes?  And yeah, RGB and even S-video on Genesis/Mega Drive, and Master System also, is pretty damn nice.

[kevtris]

Heya, I decided to join the forum after hearing from game-tech.us about this thread to clear up some things.

We discussed the idea of making an HDMI adapter for the NES the first time we got together.   I then went home that night and sketched up a quickie design and got to work in Altium making some PCBs and in Quartus writing some code. 2 months or so after the initial get together I had some working hardware.

Yes, this board is included in the Analogue nt, but gametech had nothing to do with this,  in fact I couldn't tell him or anyone about it until after it was released.  There's no "conspiracy" of any kind involved.

As to the audio issues,  there were only two ways to handle this-  either analog-capture the audio and put up with noise on the audio, and various expansion chip level problems, or recreate the audio internally digitally.

I chose to simulate the audio hardware internally.  I am very sensitive to the quality of the audio, so this was not a decision I chose lightly.  I put a lot of time and effort into getting good audio, including a 256 tap FIR filter to eliminate aliasing, so stuff like the looped noise sounds right on games such as Solstice.  The existing analog audio coming out of the NES CPU is still there, it didn't go away.

The expansion chips must be manually turned on in the menu for Fami carts and on the flash carts too, but on the Powerpak, I modified the NSF player so that it will properly enable and disable the expansion chips for you automatically.  I was thinking of modding the loader code so when a game that uses expansion audio loads, it automagically turns the proper chips on/off.

There's no way to "autodetect" what game is running to turn the right chips on/off.  (Well nothing I could do on the FPGA easily).  Since there's fairly few games with expansion audio, this should only be a minor inconvenience.  The NSF player on the Powerpak is where I do most of my expansion chip listening and fixing it was easy.

Because the sound chips can be turned on from cartridge space, this means in the future homebrew games could turn on and utilize the expansion chip hardware on the adapter.


As to my investment, I have a huge monetary investment in the project-  about 5 figures of investment.  It's going to take selling a lot of boards to pay back the money I am out of pocket, and then more to pay me even minimum wage for the couple thousand hours of code/design that's in it.   I deliberately chose NOT to kickstarter the project because I wanted to finish it on my own schedule and without being beholden to anyone.   

I put a lot of effort and time into testing this mod as thoroughly as possible.  6 or 7 people were involved directly in beating on the hardware and software to test it;  I have 20 sets of CPUs and PPUs, and I tried it on four different NES main boards, both toploaders and front loaders.   I tested it on 10 different monitors, and spent almost $4000 to buy an HDMI protocol analyzer specifically for this project so I could make sure the signal going out fully conforms to the standard to ensure it was going to work on everybody's TV.  I had two runs of prototypes and built around 12 sets of PCBs by hand using a toaster oven reflow rig I designed and built.

You will be hard pressed to find a more thoroughly tested and better designed "hobbyist level" project than this one I suspect.   There's probably hundreds or thousands of things that can go wrong on the release of a complex project like this, so it's inevitable that one or two things slipped through.

The first is the connector is a bit deep on the toploader.  I tested this here, but it seems different cable makers have different "tongue" lengths on the cable ends, so my cable worked fine but someone else's might not.  I knew it was a bit close but it was a concession to make it fit in the nt as well as the toploader, making it cheaper to do boards since they'd both be the same.

The other is the everdrive issues.   We did a bunch of testing the other day and Jason's ED works fine on my HDMI modded toploader here.  Turns out it's the version of the firmware on the SD card.  Using later firmware than 3 doesn't work.  This is why there were conflicting things like how it was mentioned the ED worked then later on in my videos I said it didn't.

Turns out the ED I have has version 10+ firmware on it.  When I dropped the 3x version from Jason's ED onto this ED, it started working too.   Reset was a bit flaky still but the ED functioned and I proceeded to play mario 3, zelda, and some others.

The main reason the boards aren't for sale right this second is there's no installation guide yet, and I am still rounding up things like headers and the foam and cables so people can do the install.  There's not going to be a shortage of boards-  I will make boards as long as people buy them, barring anything outside my control such as parts availability issues.  That and it'd be nice to have a website set up to make it easier to buy them.   Of course in the future I might just stop selling if volume drops to zero, but I doubt that will happen for a long time.

The money made during the sale of the first batch of units is going to get plowed back in immediately to buy the next round of boards.   

I hope this clears up the issues around it.   Long story short, I took a large financial risk to create this device, and hope some day that I will eventually get paid back what I put in to make it.  If I was doing this to make money I wouldn't be wasting my time making HDMI mods for 20+ year old obsolete videogame consoles.  (not that there is anything wrong with that- I wouldn't have made this mod if I didn't love playing NES games).

[wildfruit]

I think I would describe the sound as "crisper" trying to go deep back into memories of smb2. Maybe it even sounds "better"?
Still, RGB is they way to go for any pre HDMI console.
If you have a mega drive you MUST try it. So sharp and clean.

Crisper and better on original hardware, or on the Hi-Def Nes?  And yeah, RGB and even S-video on Genesis/Mega Drive, and Master System also, is pretty damn nice.

Crisper on the hi def nes. I don't know. I'm not very good and translating what I'm thinking to words and I haven't played smb2 for years since some chump stole my nes, but reaching back, I think it sounds a tiny bit less muffled but in a good way. Doesn't sound distorted or bad pitch to me. Hmmm maybe a good analogy would be listening to a track at 128kb and then listening to same track at 320kb or flac and feeling the difference.
Side note: Sometimes bit rate means naff all but I URGE you to listen to Minecraft alpha in flac. Beautiful.
I'm still not sold on the whole package / method, but sound wise seems decent.

[PCEngineHell]

stuff, giant wall of text

Really cool and all, but right now you did not do what seems to be a proper test run on your launch batch of pcbs. You basically got them, slapped them into consoles and listed them systems up for sale after some basic test. So again, you and Game-Tech need to work out some kind of free 6 month service warranty for your ebay buyers, etc. If you are truely confident in this batch of hardware up on ebay, then this should not be a problem. But I have as of yet to see Game-Tech, or you, actually say "Yes, we will do this to make sure no one gets screwed".

The bit you state about the audio is cool, but a comparison video would be nicer at this point. Please get to work on that. I have already provided you with certain audio tracks, and you can always choose to add more to that also.


The internal financial mess with you both and Analogue is your own business, even if it sounds completely ridiculous. But frankly you should not be surprised at all by the disappointment of some of us in how this launch was handled. You basically forced anyone who had a system already who wanted this mod right now to partake in high dollar auctions, forcing them to invest in another system they otherwise wouldn't need, or to go buy a Analogue NT. In addition to this, its an untested launch batch, and no warranty was stated as included or implied in the auction details. The 14 day return on ebay is just too limited for this kind of thing.


EDIT: And I think the other thing that kind of makes it salt on a open wound is the whole auction thing with the bid amounts that were set kind of implies that you're of the thinking that something like a Hi-Def Nes is worth more dollar wise then something like a RGB region modded Duo-R or modded AES system, on this forum of all places.

Only that special breed of irresponsible Nes collectards would spend that kind of cash (I feel sorry for these kinda guys, they usually just cant help their-selves or don't know any better). And these are the types that you basically handed the dictation of the going price over to on the open market, instead of just setting your own set asking price to begin with. When ever these guys go to flip their systems after they get buyers remorse, they are going to go off and list them for exactly what they paid you, if not more, thinking its totally worth $500-700.


Everyone else is going to be like, umm, no, for that kind of cash I can buy a Nec system, a Neo Geo, or a RGB/Svideo modded Nes and a XRGB or Iscan upscaler and a few games.

[kevtris]

But frankly you should not be surprised at all by the disappointment of some of us in how this launch was handled. You basically forced anyone who had a system already who wanted this mod right now to partake in high dollar auctions, forcing them to invest in another system they otherwise wouldn't need, or to go buy a Analogue NT.

ooooor, you could just not buy either and wait until the boards are available for sale and install one yourself, or pay someone to install it into your system.   Like anything else of this magnitude, it takes awhile to ramp up production and all the back end things like install guides.  Unless you are paying me directly to advance the project, then I do not bend to your will.

So far, you're the only "disappointed" person I know of on all the forums I inhabit regarding this adapter.  Everyone else has been very supporting of it and me.  I am doing this for "fun" and to breathe new life into the system so it can be enjoyed on the latest and newest TVs as well as the old CRT standby.   

As for testing, apparently you didn't watch my video of me programming/testing the adapters, or read what I wrote about the time I spent testing things during development and the equipment I purchased.

[PCEngineHell]

stuff...

You're right, I don't watch your videos. Frankly from what I saw of you the past couple of days, you're awkward on camera and not very enjoyable to watch, even from a techie point of view. As is, Game_Tech has been your spin guy/forum spammer, thankfully so it seems. So most of what is known has been coming from him on here, not you. So if anyone is at fault for that, its more on you then me or anyone else here. When I think of Hi-Def Nes, I think of Game-Tech, his forum spamming, and the current auctions, not Kevtris.

As for testing, again, what you did not do was put weeks into testing this final launch batch of boards and systems. You put weeks and months into testing the prior stuff. Launch stuff still should spend some time being tested too. Keep trying to avoid the subject, but it really is rather disturbing that you and Game-Tech are skipping a reasonable time frame for testing this launch batch, and avoiding the thing about backing your ebay systems up with an extended service warranty. Why is that such a problem for you both to do?

Hell, most modders here that offer systems for sale do this in some form or another. What makes you feel your situation is so different that you don't have to guarantee the systems being auctioned off? Again, if you were really that confident in the current batches being sold, you'd stand by them with a 6 month service warranty.

Also, again, waiting for some audio comparison videos. Seeing and hearing is believing. Forgive me if I don't take kinda sorta awkward Anton LaVey's word for it.

And you can get upset and pissy all you want, but you have no attachment to this forum other then some spin guy doing your dirty work. So yeah, I get concerned when this kind of shit starts to play out on the forum I currently frequent the most. Others may not be as verbal about it, but I don't mind doing that, calling out bullshit.

I may be crass or harsh about it at times, but I don't owe you anything, and I don't care to brown nose this or sugar coat it. You have what seems to be a fairly impressive product in the making, but your ebay launch completely sucks ass. Yeah, I dont expect Nintendo collector/forum people to complain, because honestly, they are not that great or known for their sound decision making skills.

Thats all there is to it. Don't like hearing that? Then go fuck yourself. Its a free world, and people have a right to express their opinion on the matter. You can always go back to slinking about behind the scenes and using Game-Tech for your voice if you cant handle it. Otherwise, man up, start offering them warranties, and get to posting that sound caparison already Kev, or is it Anton, I forget which...

EDIT, as for you thinking no one is wondering wtf is going on, or having issues with it, just because they dont post here doesnt mean they dont converse about it behind the scenes. I have 4 others from here that I have been talking to about this as is, and one of them worded their concerns quite well this evening to me:

/yahoo%20gametech_zpstdmhczmh.png

Granted, I dont talk to everyone on this forum on a casual or friendly basis often, but I would be damn naive to think that others here are not having similar conversations...

[DildoKKKobold]

stuff...

You're right, I don't watch your videos.

Translation: "I'm not going to watch the video that proves me wrong, because of shitty, stupid, childish reasons."

Typical PCEngineHell, professional keyboard warrior.
 

[PCEngineHell]

stuff...

You're right, I don't watch your videos.

Translation: "I'm not going to watch the video that proves me wrong, because of shitty, stupid, childish reasons."

Typical PCEngineHell, professional keyboard warrior.

Impossible to watch someones videos when you have no idea who he is jackass. Just saw his channel yesterday, and gave it a go. Was meh on it all. But hey, thanks for chiming in without actually reading what I said about that guy.

[BigusSchmuck]

I may be late to the game here, but why spend all this $$$ just to turn your nes into displaying 1080p and digital sound? Kind of scratching my head here on that one..

I hear you!



NO NEED FOR ANY IF THIS FINNICKY CRAP
I am old-school, so I feel the same way about RGB mods! (on economic and philosophical grounds).



CURIOSITY and/or CONVENIENCE 
Of course, I do understand the desire to simplify your life and use ONE MONITOR for all entertainment needs (in this case, HDTV). Folks are willing to compromise in the name of convenience.


PERSONALLY 
After 10-15 years, I myself and getting close to getting some RGB mods...just because I am damn curious...but clearly, I am happy with my current s-video/component level of quality on CRT.

If I'm going to have everything on one box, I'll just emulate the damn thing. Seriously, $500-700 for a NES is a little extreme. If I'm going to pay that kind of money, it better come with a warranty. No excuses.

[DildoKKKobold]

stuff...

You're right, I don't watch your videos.

Translation: "I'm not going to watch the video that proves me wrong, because of shitty, stupid, childish reasons."

Typical PCEngineHell, professional keyboard warrior.
 

Impossible to watch someones videos when you have no idea who he is jackass. Just saw his channel yesterday, and gave it a go. Was meh on it all. But hey, thanks for chiming in without actually reading what I said about that guy.

Frankly from what I saw of you the past couple of days, you're awkward on camera and not very enjoyable to watch

Kevtris gave you evidence, and you chose to ignore it, because of this. Your own words. Stupid. Childish. Petty. As usual. Pathetic.

[PCEngineHell]

stuff...

You're right, I don't watch your videos.

Translation: "I'm not going to watch the video that proves me wrong, because of shitty, stupid, childish reasons."

Typical PCEngineHell, professional keyboard warrior.

Impossible to watch someones videos when you have no idea who he is jackass. Just saw his channel yesterday, and gave it a go. Was meh on it all. But hey, thanks for chiming in without actually reading what I said about that guy.

Frankly from what I saw of you the past couple of days, you're awkward on camera and not very enjoyable to watch

Kevtris gave you evidence, and you chose to ignore it, because of this. Your own words. Stupid. Childish. Petty. As usual. Pathetic.

No, he gave me no evidence. His videos cover prior testing of the stuff as he was working out kinks. There is nothing in there showing they did extensive testing of the launch batch of pcbs or of the systems they just auctioned off or just listed.

His latest videos basically go from "HiDefNES Update #9: Into Production We Go!" to "HiDef NES Update 10 - SHIP IT!" with no testing videos of the launch stuff being shown as extensively tested or anything in between.

There is also no comparison videos from what I could see. Even Game-Tech is saying there does not seem to be any concerning the audio. Its why I uploaded a audio clip for them to use. I did actually browse his channel noob. Seriously, if you cant be bothered to actually go back and read the past couple of pages, then just stfu. You're the worst possible kind of white knight.

[DildoKKKobold]

So what you are saying, is you went with a personal attack on kevtris, just because? Makes you look like a real winner.

P.S. Good job ignoring me.

[SmokeMonster]

You're the worst possible kind of white knight.

At least he's not a disrespectful cunt of a troll.

[PCEngineHell]

You're the worst possible kind of white knight.

At least he's not a disrespectful cunt of a troll.

Oh how little you know noob, oh how little you know.

[PCEngineHell]

Honestly I just think it's hilarious someone would swoop in to defend DarKKKobold. That just came out of nowhere. DarKKKobold has a pretty bad rep here.

[cjameslv]

Frankly from what I saw of you the past couple of days, you're awkward on camera and not very enjoyable to watch

Kevtris gave you evidence, and you chose to ignore it, because of this. Your own words. Stupid. Childish. Petty. As usual. Pathetic.

Is prof for real??  Kevtris is a designer/developer, i must have missed the part of the job description where they are required to be camera friendly and enjoyable to watch? WTF is wrong with prof? Until prof posts a youtube video and proves hes not awkward and is enjoyable to watch, he should stfu...

Kevtris, this moron does not speak for other people on this forum. I wouldn't even waste my breath on him. Sadly, I don't even like this high def nes, but i respect the fact that you put in serious time and effort to bring this project to light. You guys posted it in the correct section on our site as well. If prof isn't planning on purchasing a system from you, he has ZERO f_cking say in anything that should revolve around it with his worthless ramblings carrying no weight.

[SmokeMonster]

Honestly I just think it's hilarious someone would swoop in to defend DarKKKobold. That just came out of nowhere. DarKKKobold has a pretty bad rep here.

Believe it or not, people follow this thread even when they don't post. I don't know anyone's history here, but if you think that your 'rep' has any merit after trolling two of the best guys in the community, then you're skull is even thicker than suggested.

[DildoKKKobold]

Oh how little yoi know noob, oh how little you know.

This is his standard form of attack. "You haven't been around long enough, so your opinion can't be true." It doesn't take 3 years of being here to see that he is the ultimate keyboard warrior. A cursory read of this thread shows him "white knighting" for PCEFX, protecting us from the evil kevtris.

Captain Hindsight here knows exactly how this hobby release should have gone... in hindsight. Congratu-fucking-lations.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Honestly I just think it's hilarious someone would swoop in to defend DarKKKobold. That just came out of nowhere. DarKKKobold has a pretty bad rep here.

Believe it or not, people follow this thread even when they don't post. I don't know anyone's history here, but if you think that your 'rep' has any merit after trolling two of the best guys in the community, then you're skull is even thicker than suggested.

Which community?  This mod does literally nothing for the PC Engine community.   



The point is, for such a high buy-in price, one would expect a lot more confidence/backing/proof.

I have seen an AnalogueNT whateverNES in person.   

After seeing it, I personally don't see any reason for it.  I run composite into an XRGB3 with scanlines and get the same kind of image quality.   NES in RGB doesn't look fantastic.   It's NES.   There's not alot going on.

Composite modded Famicom or NES can be obtained for under 100$.   A simple composite upscaler is not too expensive either.

Or, you can get an XRGB of some variety and have a device that suits many needs, instead of one single overpriced NES need that isn't even really that great in the end.

[PCEngineHell]

SmokeMonster, been here less then a year, has less then 200 post, barely active, thinks he knows who two of the best members in the community are. LOL @ that. There is no "two best" members here idiot, there are quite a few awesome people here that bring a lot to the table, and DK isn't counted among them.

Game-techs repair and mod service seems great, but I mean, he isn't the only one here doing it. Keith, Turbokon, TheSteve, etc. Are you saying Game-Tech or DarKKKobold is more valuable here then they are? FUCK THAT NOISE. Oh my god I cant stop laughing at that. Seriously, my ribs hurt. Dammit lol.


EDIT: Fuck lol even Nintega was more valuable then DarKKKobold. at least he could be funny at times. Seriously Smoke, are you a DarkKobold alt account or something lol? There is no way you could type something like saying DarkKobold is one of the best members here and not have been cracking up a little inside as you did.

[PCEngineHell]

Oh hell, I just realized that Smokemonster was the knob running the TED roms ebay auctions. Oh, the irony of him posting in this. Oh god it just gets funnier and funnier.

Maximizing profit is not my intention.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-EverDrive-64-v2-5-Nintendo-64-CIC-Custom-Shell-Labels-8GB-SD-Setup-/221833235981?nma=true&si=Jmz3nioPHx9irZLNB81FEhBjOXE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-EverDrive-TurboGrafx-16-PC-Engine-Flash-Cartridge-Custom-Shell-8GB-SD-/221779372369?nma=true&si=Jmz3nioPHx9irZLNB81FEhBjOXE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Turbo-EverDrive-V2-2-TurboGrafx-16-PC-Engine-Custom-Shell-8GB-SD-/321809395098?nma=true&si=Jmz3nioPHx9irZLNB81FEhBjOXE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=19095.195