Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!

[kevtris]

I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high.  The availability of kits will mean everyone can get their system modded (or install it themselves if they got the skills) for a lot less.  People are paying for convenience right now and those that "gotta have it" I guess. 

The lack of build instructions and key parts for the kits is the main reason that the first units are being sold pre-modified.  This was an attempt to get units out on the market as quickly as possible while all the back end documentation is being prepared and the parts are being sourced that go with the bare boards to make it into a proper kit.

The other thing we could've done was just kept units back and did nothing for a month or two while the documentation and parts sourcing occurred.

As for "selling untested units" to people, this isn't true.  The new run of boards is the same design as the last set of protos, so there's nothing new there.   

All the cash made on the auctions is going directly back in to fund the next round of boards, so we're not even making any money on them.   Kind of like a kickstarter, except we have a product we can deliver right away, instead of maybe having something ready in 2 years.

Btw the kit price is $120 and not $150.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high

You must not have been to any game conventions lately.  Those places are breeding grounds for shit pricing and idiocy.


I won't be shocked when a handful of people buy all the kits, mod some NESes, and then start selling them for an amount that makes you wish you'd done it instead.

120$ for the kit, 50-60$ for a toploader, so 200$ in parts, sold for 4-500$.   I can see that happening.   People are idiots.

[SmokeMonster]

I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high

You must not have been to any game conventions lately.  Those places are breeding grounds for shit pricing and idiocy.


I won't be shocked when a handful of people buy all the kits, mod some NESes, and then start selling them for an amount that makes you wish you'd done it instead.

120$ for the kit, 50-60$ for a toploader, so 200$ in parts, sold for 4-500$.   I can see that happening.   People are idiots.

$120 for the kit, $100 to $150 for the toploader, plus at least $100 in installation fees. That will be the future price. The price for me would be $120 total, for an HDMI NES...

Forget people who buy overpriced shit for their caves at conventions. Are we really here to defend them? The majority of people will have their own personal NES modded by someone.

I read the entire thread, and I get an email every time someone posts to it. My defense of GT is very much the middle ground.

Hardly.  You're implying that ANY amount of profit is acceptable and that anyone who disagrees is just an ignorant hater, leaving no middle ground where someone can argue that x amount of profit is okay but y is too much.

But I digress.  You're just another profiteer that makes up bullshit and justifications as you go along, and I've little doubt you're just trying to figure out how you can buy these kits and flip 'em for big monies.

No, I said that it's fair to let the market decide the price for the first consoles. Especially when the buyers absolutely know that a kit is coming. But I digress, you're just another person who admitted no interest in the device anyways.

[PunkCryborg]

RGB modded NES's are already selling for $250-350. The kits are not that cheap, install can take a couple hours and you need the right tools to do it so the install isn't that cheap and then most people want 3d printed parts. The starting price of $300 for the auctions was not unreasonable and they have no control over how high people would have bidded them up to.
I have seen every model of NES and Famicom with the Etim RGB boards now on pro monitors and it looks amazing. If you haven't played on one you might not realize just how much better it looks. Even going off of pictures on a computer can't really do it justice compared to seeing a set in real life. I am looking forward to seeing the image from the NT a local friend bought. From what I've seen the image looks absolutely perfect and the extra features to adjust the image and palettes look like a lot of fun to tinker with.
TVs barely have composite jacks even anymore. I don't really like HDMI much personally, I don't think it's a very reliable connection and the restrictions it has are irritating but it's the standard now and a lot of poeple want to move with the times and keep playing their old games on new sets without them looking like crap. The kit and install price really doesn't seem too crazy when you consider how much people are spending on NES games lately.

[BigusSchmuck]

I may be late to the game here, but why spend all this $$$ just to turn your nes into displaying 1080p and digital sound? Kind of scratching my head here on that one..

you're not alone, I thought this was it

For the everyday retro gamer yeah.. I'm kind of curious to see if someone just created a NES clone with hdmi ports if it would be cheaper to go that route instead of modding already existing consoles? Not that I'm trying to crap on this thread or anything, I'm legitimately curious.

[PunkCryborg]

For the everyday retro gamer yeah.. I'm kind of curious to see if someone just created a NES clone with hdmi ports if it would be cheaper to go that route instead of modding already existing consoles? Not that I'm trying to crap on this thread or anything, I'm legitimately curious.

It's called the reron 5 and it's a piece of junk

[Arkhan Asylum]

The starting price of $300 for the auctions was not unreasonable and they have no control over how high people would have bidded them up to.

Except, they did...  See what I said about setting up a BIN instead....

I'm not quite sure what it is with people in this thread sucking at reading.

I have seen every model of NES and Famicom with the Etim RGB boards now on pro monitors and it looks amazing. If you haven't played on one you might not realize just how much better it looks.

I've seen similar, and I am not really impressed.   Partially because of reasons already stated, in that NES never really looks that stellar.  The best RGB mod + the best RGB monitor around doesn't improve the actual graphical capabilities of the machine...  you just get really crisp plainness.   

You're more than welcome to come stand in front of a Playchoice 10 and try to convince me that it's so much better than what I am staring at when I play on my couch.  I tried to convince myself of it to justify dumping money into RGB, but I wasn't able to.

Fire up an emulator on a CRT.   That's what you're after, essentially.   It's not too great.  I used to stare at that all the time when I was too young to afford imports and wanted to play Samurai Pizza Cats. 

I don't really subscribe to the "pro crt RGB wank" attitude because it's all fairly overrated and not nearly as great as any of you guys seem to imply, especially for something like NES. 

I ditched all that crap for an upscaler and a 60" TV.   Haven't noticed a loss of gaming enjoyment, but have noticed more space for cooler stuff since I dumped like 10 RGB monitors on other people.

This is where you bring up "input lag" that's unrecognizable by the human brain, and act like I have no taste or poor eye sight because I don't whip my dick out for this stuff.

I did tests on XRGB3 vs. composite into a 1084S, and saw no measurable difference in gameplay.  In fact, I did better on some games with XRGB3 because I could see what the fuck I was doing.

That shit is the gaming dork equivalent of those people that buy all that high end audiophile equipment and try to convince everyone that their auditory experience is vastly superior when really, it isn't.  It's some marginal improvement that you only notice if you're looking for it, being snooty, or have a side by side comparison to something lesser.

You will have the same memories and feelings as the person with the "inferior" setup.

It's not like anyone's brain retains the quality difference.  Kind of like how audiophiles don't somehow hum a song in higher quality because they heard it better.    I used to play SNES on a B&W TV.   The first time I beat LttP was in B&W.  Somehow though, my brain has implanted the colors into that time, since I've also beaten it in color.   

It's mostly psychology and dick waving.   I've got some of the high end vinyl playback stuff.  It's whatever.  The records aren't immediately asstastic when you play them on your grandma's dusty ass recordplayer and gooned up speakers.

Sure, the nicer equipment leads to a "nicer" experience, but, it doesn't mean the non-expensive/fancy setup is worthless and shouldn't even exist. 

The kit and install price really doesn't seem too crazy when you consider how much people are spending on NES games lately.

Yeah, dude, you're right.  Crazy doesn't seem crazy when everything is already batshit insane.   

I'm not a fan of adding fuel to fires.

$120 for the kit, $100 to $150 for the toploader, plus at least $100 in installation fees. That will be the future price. The price for me would be $120 total, for an HDMI NES...

I'm still in disbelief that toploaders are 150$ now.    When people start snatching them up to sell HDMI'd setups online for idiotic prices, I will expect prices to hit the 250 mark just for a vanilla toploader.   That's scary.

Forget people who buy overpriced shit for their caves at conventions. Are we really here to defend them? The majority of people will have their own personal NES modded by someone.

How can we forget them?  They're the ones who shot the auctions up to 700+$.  They are the ones that establish these moronic prices that normal people are impacted by.   Why do you not understand this?

We're not here to defend them, and unfortunately, "the majority" is not normal people.  It's idiots.  We're outnumbered by idiots.  I am way too observant of this at game conventions.   For every normal human, there's a fist full of idiots inciting a douche-riot.


ANYWAY:

This thing (the HDMI thing) will be a pretty solid thing once it's out in some obtainable capacity though.    Plus it will stop people from cannibalizing machines just for RGB mods so they can pat themselves on the back and try to convince themselves that it was worth it. 

This device, in my opinion, is actually better than fucking around with that for a few reasons.

1) It's cheaper (sort of, we hope, please)
2) It's easier (just jam it in any TV since like 10 years ago)
3) The video quality gives you that same crisp appearance and quality, if you really need it that bad.

I've seen RGB'd NES setups in action.  I've seen this thing in action.  I'd say the end result is pretty good, as long as the prices don't approach infinity retard.

[BigusSchmuck]

For the everyday retro gamer yeah.. I'm kind of curious to see if someone just created a NES clone with hdmi ports if it would be cheaper to go that route instead of modding already existing consoles? Not that I'm trying to crap on this thread or anything, I'm legitimately curious.

It's called the reron 5 and it's a piece of junk

I didn't realize it had a hdmi port on that sucker. You learn something new everyday..

[SmokeMonster]

For every normal human, there's a fist full of idiots inciting a douche-riot.

Says the guy who's constantly making ranting personal attacks and defending the incredible quality of composite NES on his $300 scaler.

Everyone buying in at the current price is funding the operation. A $1000 kickstarter prize to the top 20 people would have been the same deal, except that a thousand other contributors would be at risk for the $120 kits that may or may not have materialized out of it.

$120 for the kit, $100 to $150 for the toploader, plus at least $100 in installation fees. That will be the future price. The price for me would be $120 total, for an HDMI NES...

I'm still in disbelief that toploaders are 150$ now.    When people start snatching them up to sell HDMI'd setups online for idiotic prices, I will expect prices to hit the 250 mark just for a vanilla toploader.   That's scary.

Wow, you're like an oracle. What else do you forsee? Hi-Def installs in front or top loaders. Are you suggesting that front-loaders will all disappear too?

[esteban]

...

[Arkhan Asylum]

Says the guy who's constantly making ranting personal attacks and defending the incredible quality of composite NES on his $300 scaler.

lol, I can tell you're excessively new here, if you think any of this is a ranting personal attack.   

and, as I've stated, you can get the same kind of output from a cheaper composite only upscaler.  The composite portion of the XRGB3 is practically an afterthought. 

Again, demonstrating that you have the reading abilities of an inbred.

Nowhere did I use the word "incredible" either.   

Wow, you're like an oracle. What else do you forsee? Hi-Def installs in front or top loaders. Are you suggesting that front-loaders will all disappear too?

You've missed the point.  Not shocking, since you can't read.


You're pretty much contributing nothing to any point of any conversation going on in this thread.   You can't read, you miss points, you can't make points, and you're generally just an idiot.

[PunkCryborg]

Here's another big deal that I dont think anyone mentioned. Streaming. I've been doing some streaming with some friends on twitch and the RGB modded NES and even the Svid modded NES looks miles better than streams with people using composite modded NES's. One of the biggest issues though is you have to run it through an XRGB then to an elgato or capture device that introduces a lot of lag with game play and the video feeds. HDMI NES is going to be awesome for that because you can get that same quality look and not have to deal with the XRGB in the mix.
And sorry you don't like RGB monitors and CRTs Ark but to each his own, I love mine and think they look amazing. I get the same response from people who have never seen it or at the conventions I take them to. Last con me and my friends had a NES and a Sharp twin RGB modded and running on 14" PVMs and had muliple people asking why it looked so good that had no idea what the RGB monitors even are. They look perfect and I love playing on CRTs. I just don't like playing old games on HD sets, it just does not look right to me.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I never said I don't *like* the monitors.  I just don't feel the need to stack them up and photograph them and proclaim that it's the only way to play something as mundane as NES.   They look nice.  Not nice enough to justify the space they consume.

I used to think CRT+RGBs were the only good idea until I bought an XRGB3, played around with it and went "welp, time to dump all these monitors in favor of more shit I'll use".   All the monitors I sold got me more MSX stuff, new tubes for my guitar amp, another guitar, and a drum machine.    Those al see more use than a stack of monitors that were all on standby, lol.

They're slowly falling out of favor, as we can see with this mod.   It's becoming impractical, and even a bit annoying to keep this stuff around.   Having a CRT crap out mid convention sucks when you're trying to demo stuff.

The odds of a flatpanel screen and an XRGB3 dying are pretty slim.   It's all a lot more portable, too. 

also, lol, streaming.  the last thing I personally consider with gaming is how well I can share the experience with dickheads on the internet.    I'd rather play games than watch them be played online.

I am going to try going from HDMI to component into my XRGB3 to see what that looks like.    I'm pretty curious. 

[SmokeMonster]

You're pretty much contributing nothing to any point of any conversation going on in this thread.   You can't read, you miss points, you can't make points, and you're generally just an idiot.

A typical troll shouting, "lol but you didn't read my posts!!" every time someone disagrees with their lunatic-asshat opinion. I've read all of your posts and dissecting even one of them point-by-point was irritating enough. 

May god help those who continue on in the pile of shit that is this thread.

[Arkhan Asylum]

A typical troll shouting, "lol but you didn't read my posts!!" every time someone disagrees with their lunatic-asshat opinion.

Again, you must be new if you think I'm trolling.  You also suck at disagreeing, and don't articulate any points really..

I've read all of your posts and dissecting even one of them point-by-point was irritating enough. 

May god help those who continue on in the pile of shit that is this thread.

Ah, I missed that entire post.   It jumped me to the next page when I refreshed..   I just read it.

You can produce as many games per batch as you need. GT has a limited supply of toploaders collecting dust to get rid of, after which he's going into the business of making affordable kits using the collateral from his sales. Why shouldn't he think on a large scale like Stoneagegamer and other retailers?

You are having trouble connecting dots.   I'm not talking about the kits.  I'm talking about the kits in the hands of idiots, using the initial flood of prices as the price establishment point.  What's going to prevent profiteering dickholes from grabbing entire batches of these kits, and making a mess of this?

No, people have established an imaginary number in their head of what they want to pay for the first few devices ever sold. You are hardly the person to comment on price, having paid $300 just for composite scaled NES and suggesting that it's just as good as RGB.

1) I bought my upscaler for  more than just composite NES.   There's a Saturn, SNES, Genesis, Master System, PCE, Dreamcast, PS1, N64, Gamecube, PSP, and NES running through it.    Nice job there, tard.   Nowhere did I say it's just as good as RGB either.   I said composite is good enough.

I suggest Hooked on Phonics, maybe.

2) It's not an imaginary number.  It exists.  It sold.  The history will remain on ebay, and that is where the collectards/gougers get their pricing from.

You still seem to have this inability to understand that.

The $600 price will obviously not last. You can't sell a console for its introductory price after six months. These are the early adopters of a hot new piece of hardware, and of course it's more expensive than if they had waited or installed their own kit.

You underestimate stupid people, and clearly don't pay attention to things very well.   Once the kits are in the hands of idiots, where do you think they're going to go for price points?  The Ebay history.

This is the most ridiculous argument yet and there is no evidence to suggest that HDMI NES kits are going to raise the price of an NES. Please share a single example of this actually happening. The NES was one of the best selling consoles of all time...

The C64 was one of the best selling computers of all time, and prices for those have been on the rise lately, too.   Why?  Idiots.

People buy them up to circuit bend/mod them, sack em for the SID chips.  Reduce the available amount of them.   Supply/Demand? Duh?

The same thing can happen to the NES.   Lots of them are already dead/tossed out.   A toploader is evidently 150$ now.   As less of them become available, what do you think will happen to the price.

Also, again with the inability to read.   It's going to contribute to the problem.  It's not going to be the only variable.   You should stop and think before you post contrarian nonsense. 

It's also called inventing a story with lots of baseless assumptions. Think into the future when you can buy a kit and install it yourself.

They're not baseless if you've actually paid alot of attention to the retro gaming scene as it's gone on a nose dive over the past decade. 

Yes, it's better to jump to a hundred conclusions in a series of illogical steps... Nothing that you said has any evidence to support it, beyond being worst case scenarios dreamed up by someone who admittedly sees no use for HDMI NES anyways.

Illogical, how?  You're dismissing the years of prices going down the shitter, cash grab gimmicks, hoarders, gougers, etc.   The evidence has been all over for awhile.   




TL;DR:  Smokehouse is an idiot and can't read.



See if they're still enrolling.


It's also comical that parts of your posts are basically just ad hominem, but you try calling me out for "ranting personal attacks".

Go fuck yourself.   You're worthless.

[Opethian]

/ad2437d208.gif

[PCEngineHell]

Giant Wall of Text Powers Activate!!! Those that cant handle giant walls of text feel free to skip down to the next totally engaging, highly informal RomMaster Zero or DK post.

Ok, I'm going to start off with this:

First, I love the idea of the kit, and I 100 percent believe GT and Kev should make a reasonable profit on the work they put in, given they handle things properly. If they finally do sell them individually at the price they state they will, then it will be a nice option for people with Nes hardware. Having affordable options is always a good thing, never a bad one. Some people simply dont have LCDS capable of displaying composite signal all that well, and said people probably do not have iScan, XRGB, Extron, Kramer, or Faroudja upscalers. Many have no idea what those units even are. This especially applies to Nintendo Snes and Nes collectors. Said people may not have access to a reliable CRT anymore either. There are many problems that can exist for someone, so it is nice to have multiple affordable solutions readily available.

Second, Per what NecroPhile posted:

Do the naysayers feel entitled to a charity where GT works full time to make cheap turn-key consoles?

Why aren't they happy that the worlds first few HDMI NES are paying off and paving the way for the cheap kits that will follow? Many of us are thrilled that GT is finally getting a little money for the huge amount of time he spent  designing, engineering, implementing, and successfully launching Hi-Def. I think there is a major underestimation of how much went in to this.

Did you even bother to read anyone else's post before jumping in to say 'fuck teh haters!', and why are you so adamant that there's no middle ground?

The price could have been set at a point where he'd make the 'little' money nobody disagrees he deserves, but instead he chose to set up a cash grab, contributing to the collectard fueled price escalation of all things retro.  Unlike yourself, some of us here actually give a shit about the community and would rather not see it overrun by people looking to make a buck, build on their 'investment', and fishing for virtual hand jobs over their latest unboxing video (see any facebook game group).  That said, I see nothing much wrong with the proposed kit prices; I look at it like RGB mods on a Turbob - I don't see it being worth the cost, but it's a fine option for those that think it makes a big enough difference to be worth the investment.

Seems like before DK, James, PotatoCyborg, and RomMaster Zero jumped in on this trying to shut us up, all I and Arkhan, etc were basically saying was exactly that, along with me trying to pin Kev and Game-Tech down on some kind of warranty thing to take responsibility for the rushed untested nature of the auctioned launch, and to offer a complete sound comparison since a selling feature of this kit is supposedly the sound.

It seemed kind of implied that certain folks couldn't handle the heat as it were, and ran to NecroPhile privately complaining. I don't know if that was actually the case, that people ran complaining, but it read off like it. And given NecroPhile's initial request for all that to halt, including repeat conversation regarding the high price debate stuff, it just seems odd seeing him regurgitate what me and Ark and others have already said prior here and elsewhere to Smoke, etc.

As for Kevtris, you said I was the only one with said concerns. You specifically expressed that of all the forums Game-Tech and yourself have been spamming or visiting, that only I have been expressing these concerns, implying I was lying or making shit up. Having to prove that wrong and lay into into you over that sucks, but it had to happen. Sometimes people have to be beaten over the head with the clue stick to get the point across.

I am the type too that if I detect a hint of egotistical BS being spouted off, I have no qualms about tearing that shit down like its November 89 and the Berlin Wall has to go. Kev, if you took that personally, I'm just like, meh, whatever. You took that risk coming in and accusing me of being the only one with concerns and skepticism. I showed you otherwise. I can shoot the shit with you on tech talk all day long, or I can sling shit at you all day long too. Its your call on how you want something like that to play out.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The derailing flame war stuff was just adding spice and a mild distraction to the situation. Honestly to me it even lightened the mood some and created a few laughs, at Smoke and DK's expense, per usual, but seriously, who cares about these guys honestly? Since when does anyone here care that DK or Smokes feelings got hurt? Whoever did, you must be a better person then me, with some massive 100 percent forgiving, totally compromising, un-expecting heart.

Though honestly I cant recall myself actually getting downright vulgar and doing any major name calling at them or doing post overly laced with profanity in this latest flame war tidbit anyway. I think honestly prior to my mock She-Ra jabs at Smoke this thread was becoming a bit too serious in fact, like it is again right now.

Life is too short for this kind of shit, and way too many people here are too overly sensitive. Its rather embarrassing considering how many here are supposedly mature guys in their 30ies who cant handle minor barbs and jabs inserted into retorts unless its in some magical designated Fighting Street area, or how many seem incapable of finding the irony in a situation, or being able to laugh this mess off, or even laugh at themselves.

Seriously, if I can handle James personally attacking my family multiple times and state, or rather insist myself he shouldn't be banned for the personal insult crap, then some of you can learn to grow some thick skin and a sense of humor.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, back to the kit talk:

One, the name of this kit has always kind of annoyed me to a degree. Its a catchy name, but woefully inaccurate. Hi-Def Nes is not really going to make the Nes Hi-Definition, nor is it even going to appear to be Extended Definition on screen. Most of us know this, but there are morons out there that don't. For those that don't, let me put it this way. The internal resolution of the Nes is always going to be what, 256x240? This kit is not going to be able to add extra detail to that.

Basically what you have is this: The upscaling hardware is doing a couple of things. First, deinterlacing the picture so that it can be processed. Second, using filters and algorithms to add lines and pixels so that the video signal sent to the TV can matches its desired HD resolution. If it did not do this you'd have a smaller image displayed on the screen surrounded by black borders. Basically it is enlarging the image and filling in the gaps with pixels/lines that it deems will properly match the already existing info being displayed, so there wont be any gaps in the image when it is enlarged.

Said advanced algorithms extensively analyze the signal/image being fed into it and then uses interpolation to create said extra pixels/lines. Again, you can't add extra detail that was never there. Outside of the end product being displayed being a little cleaner with less shimmer, all in all, its still just going to look like a cleaned up 256x240 Nes image (looking emulated at that from what the HI-Def Nes vids on youtube look like).

That is all there is to it. The benefit is you are making your system fully compatible on a 720p or 1080p screen, either cropped for proper 4:3, or forced to a widescreen aspect ratio because you're a noob that doesn't know anything about proper aspect ratios on old games. You might get a slightly clearer image compared to the composite out, depending on how well your LCD handles composite in, and reduced shimmer during screen movement. You may get some slightly brighter colors too, maybe. Depends on the hardware and the quality of the color pallets the kit is using.

But in the end, the actual Nes games will still not be in Hi-Definition. Rygar is not suddenly going to have defined hair detail and decked out abs. You are not going to suddenly see fine blots of mold growing on blocks in the dungeons on The Legend of Zelda.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the sound. The sound is not really Hi-Definition either. Its hardware emulating older hardware that wasn't even of 16-bit sound quality @ 44.1 kHz mono or stereo. Sure the slight warm fuzz is missing, because the sound is cleaner, but its still not going to sound overly enhanced from the original. It can fake stereo, and it can emulate added chips, and get rid of the extremely minor noise/interference that was originally in the audio, the kind that only super human ears can usually detect.

Voice samples on games will not sudden sound like cd or dvd quality recorded samples being played back though. The bleeps and bloops and bassy sounds will still sound like bleeps and bloops and bassy sounds, though via emulation it may sound crisper/cleaner, but less warm and with less umph, sounding a tad fake.

But outside of that, its still going to sound like Nes. And I suspect it wont even sound as exact, due to emulation, and that is a deal killer for me. Emulation never sounds exactly like the original. They can get pretty close, but never exact. I don't care about overclocking Nes hardware, so having emulated sound is not a needed feature for someone like me.

For that matter, said noise/interference can be eliminated via good sound equipment and shielded cables. You don't need this kit to do that. What would have been cool would have been in addition a stripped down kit being offered that just focused on the visual side of things, so that an even cheaper kit could be sold.

As for fake stereo on Nes. I dont like it. Its not legit. Those sounds were never meant to be separated, and having clocked in thousands of hours of game time on the Nes, most of the time it just sounds odd hearing that fake stereo stuff.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As for the auction starting bid amount, it was irrelevant. It was a starting bid, not a BIN or the end bid amount. GT and Kev are not naive enough to have assumed it would have just only got one bid per system. A reasonable BIN price like $325-375 could have been set so the systems could have gone at a affordable rate and they could have made a reasonable profit still.

They knew though that a limited supply being posted via auction would attract high bids. Given there seems to be no set time frame for the release of the kits, the going rates for modded systems can be abused for however long that general unavailability of the kits last, as long as they don't overly flood the ebay market with system listings. Basically they are in a position to take advantage of Nes collector impatience, and they know it. The auctions will continue as long as they deem them necessary for high profits.

What is going to happen though is people not willing or able to afford to win another deck at such a high price will eventually get tired of waiting and jump on a cheaper solution. So if the idea of selling kits, instead of modded systems, is the end plan, then GT and Kev are shooting theirselves in the foot on the long term. Customers who got tired of waiting and went off and got NESRGB kits installed are not suddenly going to rip said kits out and buy HI-Def kits to replace them. The longer a normal kit launch is prolonged in favor of cash grab auctions, the worse the situation will be for the kits when it is time to sell them on their own.

And the other thing. People who won these modded systems paid way more then their worth. Nintendo collectors tend to not have very good gauges of what is worth what, similar to how some Neo collectors tend to be. So what you are going to end up with is a lot of people having the same mentality of KPJ/Neotropolis customers who try to resell his warez.

Customers like those of KPJ really think their consolized  MVS 1-Slots in Pactec shells and AES systems are worth the $600-700 bucks they paid. When they end up with buyers remorse and try to resell these Game-Tech modded Nes decks and try to recoup their losses, whats going to happen is you're going to have systems sitting in sales threads and auction listings posted as "OMG RARE HDMI NES OMG FUCKIN RAREZ $700", sitting there and not selling because there is always going to be some slightly cheaper solution for sale somewhere. Said people are going to be made fun of, just like Neotropolis customers.

The initial buyers are going to end up jaded when they realized they over paid by about $300-400 on this regret buy, because their power to dictate the going rate has slowly been taken away from them. And in addition that there is $300-400 they will never ever get back, because GT and Kev kept slowly flooding the ebay market with auctions over time making their "OMG RARE $700 HDMI NES" not so rare, making the going rate eventually drop to $600, then $500, then $400, then $350, until finally Kev and Gt see that the auctions are no longer worth holding and it is now ideal to just sell the kits and be done with it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And to Kev and GT, bad news for you in case you were not aware. Paypal has extended their customer claim/return policy to 180 days. So if one of your auctioned systems stops working, the customer can get the funds freezed in your account on a return process and force a return if you do not do right by them. They don't have to use ebay for the return. Paypal will still have its own return process for them.

So again, a 6 month free service warranty would be ideal, as opposed to having to refund a few early $700 winning bidders whose systems might have gone bad between now and 6 months into the future. You wont be able to worm out of any Paypal claim by using the "Custom-made items" clause, because you sold a manufactured product, being the Nintendo manufactured Nes, with a added manufactured computer board. That clause only applies to things like custom made dolls, jewelry, crafts, etc.

As for the other mess, just meh, whatever. Still waiting for those sound comparison videos that will probably never be made. From a technical point of view I would love to see them, but as is it seems like Kevtris is reluctant or afraid to do them, similar to how him and GT seem reluctant or afraid to offer 6 month extended warranties on the auctioned systems. There is no way they spent 30-40 hours per each individual system testing it to make sure it and their launch batch of pcbs was rock solid.

They didn't do extensive industrial vibration test to make sure connections wouldn't be lost during shipping the systems, or that stress creep would not eventually occur (which to me would be an ideal test to perform given socketed chips seem to be involved). Nor did they do extended elevated-temperature fatigue test on these auctioned systems. I mean I can only assume that the kits add to the internal operating temperature of the systems.

Given the time frame from when they posted they received them, it just is not possible that responsible testing of the systems had occurred prior to auction. I don't like seeing people being used as high paying guinea pigs, but that is basically what this launch amounts to. So seriously, shame on you. SHAME. ON. YOU.

/tumblr_m3ri6mGyKK1qmevzq_zpseihcbab2.gif

[PCEngineHell]

also, lol, streaming.  the last thing I personally consider with gaming is how well I can share the experience with dickheads on the internet.    I'd rather play games than watch them be played online.

[esteban]

I was going to post this before, but it probably is even more relevant now:

Buyers still don't have any pledge/warranty for the first few batches...

Forgive me, but I didn't see Kev or GT directly address this.

[DildoKKKobold]

I was going to post this before, but it probably is even more relevant now:

Buyers still don't have any pledge/warranty for the first few batches...

Forgive me, but I didn't see Kev or GT directly address this.

In general, if its a kit, people don't offer warranties. (Fully made systems is a different story). Its not really the seller's fault if the buyer is too incompetent with a soldering iron to correctly install it. I've personally never seen any sort of self-install kit come with a warranty.

[NecroPhile]

Based on what everyone else was saying regarding warranties, I'm guessing esteban meant a warranty for the pre-modded systems sold on ebay.

[CrackTiger]

Based on what everyone else was saying regarding warranties, I'm guessing esteban meant a warranty for the pre-modded systems sold on ebay.

When the seller is the designer, manufacturer, installer and marketing team for the product and personally refurbs the included console, I think that it is much different than when a random person buys someone else's kit and installs it themself.

I believe that most people buying these modded consoles are assuming that the famous seller who has hyped this product for a long time and posts his youtube vids and 5 star reviews in the description, will take care of any and all technical issue for quite a while. Like at least a year.

An official disclaimer of a specific warranty period would go a long way to curbing a wave of unhappy fans/customers should anything go wrong. The types of people jumping on this first wave of preinstalled kits aren't going to notice the 14 day return policy and the few that do will assume that it means that they can return it no questions asked if they have buyers remorse and drop it in a mail box within 14 days after they physically receive it.

I'm not emotionally invested in this discussion or the product, but it seems like it's in the best interest of the hi-def nes team to advertise an official warranty as loud and proudly across the internet as they have been spamming their product and services for so long.

[Game-Tech.US]

There was a vrc7 mapper released for the NES Everdrive. This means Lagrange Point can be played!
I had some trouble getting a couple of the roms to work, english translation worked 2 times and not once since...
The hi-def nes kit shines here as it's the only way to get the expansion audio to work since the kit generates it internally, no need for the exp audio part of the mapper pack to work, which currently does not.
It was also my first attempt at audio capture via line out or headphone jack of the projector and tv, neither work very well.
Can anybody recommend a good hdmi 1080p capture card?

[PCEngineHell]

Warranties on the auctioned systems, and sound comparisons. Continuing to just spam post while ignoring those two things just looks bad. You do yourself more harm then good by making it obvious you chose to ignore us and opted to continue on with spamming the forum.

[Game-Tech.US]

From Twitter:

@krikzz #EverDrive N8 OS v13. Now compatible with NES HDMI adapter!
krikzz.com/forum/index.ph...

Excellent! Thanks for the update, will spread the word!

[SephirothTNH]

Excellent news!  Any idea on when kits will be available?

[Game-Tech.US]

I think Kevin is more focused on firmware/compatibility updates than ordering kits, but I know he was close to done with both just haven't heard either way from him.

[SephirothTNH]

That's understandable.  I'm still looking forward to buying one.  I know it's kind of a novelty but I really want an HDMI Frontloader hooked up the the main tv.

[Game-Tech.US]

Kevtris posted an update to the hi-def's firmware, only 30-40 consoles are out there right now so this mostly just applies to them:

Weeeelllll, here it is. I received the everdrive yesterday and loaded V12? firmware onto it (the version before the "fix" for the HDMI adapter). Thinking this was going to be a "worst case" test. It worked perfectly with the games I tested- I tested about 6 or 7 different mappers and all is well. Reset even worked properly. Before, the error messages wouldn't show up properly but they do now (i.e. no SD card).

FDS is working properly now, and so do MMC5 games (i.e. reset works there too, and no need to use a game genie). I sent it out to a couple people and they could apply it properly, though one person has problems.

He was using a powerpak, and his MMC3 file was different than mine- I think he has the savestate mappers. This caused the update to not work. It reported a data corrupt error and refused to flash the firmware. I gave him my mapper 4 file direct off the CF card on my powerpak and then he got it to work properly.

I don't know anything about the save state mapper, but I assume it cannot load 512K PRG ROMs, because it uses some of the RAM for the savestate part? I could be totally wrong but that's just my first guess.

It works on some everdrives, but some people had issues.

Anyways, here is the update:

http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/HiDefNES%20Update%20V2.00.nes

To use it, load this ROM on a flash cart (or burn EPROMs? hehe), run it and then get into the Hi Def menu, select "save and update", then "update firmware", and follow the on screen prompts. It will check the update for integrity, and then flash it if it passes the check. Cycle power and it will use the new firmware.

[Game-Tech.US]

Kevtris posted an update video last night:

Biggest news is the next batch of kits has been ordered!
There is also a small firmware update, v2.25.
http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/HiDefNES%20Update%20V2.25%20final.nes
This fixes a few games and interpolation.

[Game-Tech.US]

Hi-Def NES update - kits ready for sale Sunday July 3rd

[Game-Tech.US]

Pre-oders sale page is live, has been all day and looks to be holding up no problems so far.
https://www.game-tech.us/product/hi-def-nes/

[KnightWarrior]

How about Light Gun Games?

[crazydean]

How about Light Gun Games?

Light gun games will only work on CRT. This will always be true, due to the nature of the technology used. They will certainly work on production monitors and (probably) HD CRTs.

[KnightWarrior]

More or less to stick with a RGB NES on a CRT

[Arkhan Asylum]

I seriously doubt that once kits go on sale, that the market for modified systems will be that high

You must not have been to any game conventions lately.  Those places are breeding grounds for shit pricing and idiocy.


I won't be shocked when a handful of people buy all the kits, mod some NESes, and then start selling them for an amount that makes you wish you'd done it instead.

120$ for the kit, 50-60$ for a toploader, so 200$ in parts, sold for 4-500$.   I can see that happening.   People are idiots.

That FPGA thread made me go skim this again.

HDMI modded NES sold for 400+$ using one of these mods.   So, yeah.   It's a thing.

Toploaders have hit around the 100$ mark too,so...

SmokeMonster is definitely an idiot?

[MobiusStripTech]

Yep just sold my modded front loader and have seen a few more sell for the same price or higher.

[Medic_wheat]

How about Light Gun Games?

Light gun games will only work on CRT. This will always be true, due to the nature of the technology used. They will certainly work on production monitors and (probably) HD CRTs.

I keep hearing HD CRTs won't work when light guns. However maybe I should just try on my HD CRT and see for myself this weekend.

[crazydean]

How about Light Gun Games?

Light gun games will only work on CRT. This will always be true, due to the nature of the technology used. They will certainly work on production monitors and (probably) HD CRTs.

I keep hearing HD CRTs won't work when light guns. However maybe I should just try on my HD CRT and see for myself this weekend.

Let us know how that goes. I expect it to work but interested either way.

[MobiusStripTech]

They don't. There is still a digital image processor and that's what hoses them. You can try it though since it won't hurt anything. It will activate, but you normally can't actually hit anything.

[Game-Tech.US]

Do those hd crt's have menu's and/or possibly a 'game mode' you can switch to?
I'd also try turning off edid on the kit.

[Medic_wheat]

Do those hd crt's have menu's and/or possibly a 'game mode' you can switch to?
I'd also try turning off edid on the kit.

It has a channel that says game when I switch through various video channels.

My set has a HDMI input, S video inputs, and composition inputs. Also has a coaxial input. I want to say it was 5 cable inputs total not including the hdmi port. Granted I have been using the HD a retro vision cables for my SNES and Genises as well as the HDMI for my NES. Will have to use my non modded NES and regular composite to test the light gun. Might even test out the Saturn and light gun as well. As those are the only two systems I currently have light guns for.

Oh wait no. I have a gun con for the PS and PS2 I can try.

[Medic_wheat]

I remember seeing a YouTube video of some guy who made some sort of adaptor for the zapper which allowed it to work on a LCD tv. Granted it's YouTube and could be fake.


However. Something. Tells me that might be the next big thing for the retro scene. We already have many people working and fine tuning ways to get best picture best sounds and to play 100% of a systems library on original hardware affordiably (ever drives). What's left?  Light gun comparability. Making an adaptor or light gun which would work with original hard ware on modern tvs.

Granted it might be impossible. Then again people said it was unlikely and possibly impossible to get a Neo Geo everdrive. And that became reality.

[MobiusStripTech]

The youtube video is real. There is a way to build an adapter to get them working, but I have heard that it's not perfect and I think the tv's it worked on were specific.

If you get the zapper working on your HD CRT, post up the model. I know a few people who would be interested in trying to find an HD CRT that will actually work with a zapper, myself included.

[crazydean]

On this HD CRT, is the screen 4:3?

[Medic_wheat]

On this HD CRT, is the screen 4:3?

I believe it to be.