burnout thread

[BlueBMW]

I am so in the minority in my love for the N64...  I really don't think it deserves all the hate it gets.  Despite the fog issues it did do pretty smooth workable 3d at a time when console 3d was pretty weak.  Early Saturn and PS1 3d were pretty atrocious in 95 and 96.

[o.pwuaioc]

If you played Doom or Wolfenstein 3D before AvP (since they were released first), then AvP would not have seemed so great. Yeah, it was early, but it was still only mediocre.

If I had to choose between N64 or Jaguar and nothing else, it would be a toughie. But given that the Jaguar is redundant, give me the N64 any day.

Except it's not redundant...

There is not a single game on the Jaguar that I would want to play that I cannot play elsewhere. Not one.

The system is a shitbox.

[Dicer]

If you played Doom or Wolfenstein 3D before AvP (since they were released first), then AvP would not have seemed so great. Yeah, it was early, but it was still only mediocre.

If I had to choose between N64 or Jaguar and nothing else, it would be a toughie. But given that the Jaguar is redundant, give me the N64 any day.

Except it's not redundant...

There is not a single game on the Jaguar that I would want to play that I cannot play elsewhere. Not one.

The system is a shitbox.

I'll agree to disagree...

[jeffhlewis]

The SMS was my childhood console, and while I do love the PSG sound for nostalgic reasons, I have to agree that the NES had better sound with more variety.

That being said, Westone got some good results out of that sound chip, and stuff like Phantasy Star sounded great.

There really was a magic to that system though if you had it back in the day. You had to be there, so to speak.

[TR0N]

I never burned out on collecting and playing older video games.For a time i did sell and trade for the latest console,only because i thought id played it all.Over time it's been rebuilding of what consoles i've owned before.I all ready have what i want for the famicom,pce and neo-geo mvs.I been have been buying a little here and there for snes&genesis.Still i have a everdrive for those console,so i'm not worry about having a huge collection either one.Still this back tracking is getting really old fast for me.Only because there's to much demand for older video games at the moment.

By the way i never cared for the sms i had one for a short time and sold it shortly there after.

[EmperorIng]

I am so in the minority in my love for the N64

Maybe in the company of contrarians clinging on to the console wars. 
Elsewhere this sentiment is fairly normal. I know it hurts some folks to admit that something popular is good, but either Zelda game is worth more than the entire Jaguar library put together.

[SignOfZeta]

Jag versus N64 is like Tromma versus Universal Pictures. I mean, the N64 totally sucks, but at least it's an actual game system. The Jag is like a 90s version of the Retro VGS. It's totally garbage league.

[BlueBMW]

Jag versus N64 is like Tromma versus Universal Pictures. I mean, the N64 totally sucks, but at least it's an actual game system. The Jag is like a 90s version of the Retro VGS. It's totally garbage league.

While I disagree with the N64 totally sucking (it only partially sucks) the reverse comparison to the Retro VGS just about killed me. 

[SignOfZeta]

Think about it!

How crazy do you have to be to make a game system in the 90s with no Japanese developer support? This was back when Street Fighter and Final Fantasy owned everything. Truely a RETRO fuckup.

[LostFlunky]

Think about it!

How crazy do you have to be to make a game system in the 90s with no Japanese developer support? This was back when Street Fighter and Final Fantasy owned everything. Truely a RETRO fuckup.

Not only that, but they had their own engineers warning them about hardware "bugs", and they made the choice to finalize it gimped as it was.  This is partially what lead programmers to ignore the more powerful processors and do everything on the 68K...

[SignOfZeta]

Dang. Those are good points.

[Dicer]

Jag versus N64 is like Tromma versus Universal Pictures. I mean, the N64 totally sucks, but at least it's an actual game system. The Jag is like a 90s version of the Retro VGS. It's totally garbage league.

Except it's not...

The jag has some stupid hardware for z buffering
   and gouraud shading, but I can just ignore it and tell the two
   27mhz risc chips to do EXACTLY what I want. A 64 bit bus with
   multiple independant processors may not be the easiest thing to
   optimize for, but there is a LOT of potential.

It was neat kit, that never got proper software outside a handful of titles...change history a bit and Jag would have put out properly impressive software, not cloudy smudgy low fps garbage like on that other console.

Jag>N64

[o.pwuaioc]

You must have only played the wrong games on the N64.

[KnightWarrior]

I just buy games to play, I do have like 55 Games for the NES, Worth Playing..Same goes for my Genesis and my TG-16

[Psycho Punch]

Console with a handful of good games with 'potential' not unleashed 20 years ago vs console with more than a handful games and impressive graphics for the time hmm which one should I choose.

'cloudy smudgy low fps garbage' woah look at those SHARP GRAPHICS in club drive nigga.

[esteban]

JAG>MSX
Jag>SMS
JAG>N64
Jag> PCE

I'm burnt out on hating platforms

You folks have to stop hating the Jaguar.

We, of all people, should understand that there is something to appreciate in all consoles/platforms. If only for exploring some lesser-known games, there is something to be gained.

I'm serious.

That means the N64 bashing is also wearing thin.

I think that there is a fundamental difference between (1) defending a console from ridicule (aka appreciating a platform) VS. (2) bashing a platform (because you want to continue juvenile console wars, writ large).

I ALSO THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE a "Top of the Pops" approach to getting/playing  games...and this is BULLSHITE, too.

Really? You're going to use Bullshit Top 10 lists to make decisions? All your decisions? Fuck you.

I'm burnt out on brainless bullshit.

Sure, check out the alleged "best" games, but if you don't organically explore a library, playing all sorts of games, you don't really love video games. You are also a pussy, afraid to try things out for yourself. And make up your own mind.

I never base all all of my decisions on the "consensus" of any given community or reviewer. I have to get dirty. And frustrated. And surprised. And happy. And disappointed. How? By trying things out for myself.

The quirky, flawed (sometimes broken) games can still provide some entertainment and can certainly be appreciated for what they are.

If you are the sort of person who only wants to watch the AAA Hollywood blockbusters, and only listen to the hipster-approved indie music, and only the nerd-approved obscurities, then so be it.

But don't act like the "Top 40" approach to gaming makes you legit, because it doesn't.

I'm burned out on folks bashing entire platforms.

Sure, you can dismiss the XaviX, but it was still fun to goof around with.

Plus, I've gotten more entertainment from XaviX, and had more fun playing it with friends and family, than you could possibly predict using "console war logic".

NOTE: for me, the Jag library is weak, but I can't deny that I have had fun exploring the library and playing its games.

PCE sucks.

NOTE: at some point this became a rant.

[BlueBMW]

Honestly I think it's just become "cool" to hate on the N64.  Jag > N64?  You can't be serious...

[esteban]

Honestly I think it's just become "cool" to hate on the N64.  Jag > N64?  You can't be serious...

I agree.

And prior to that, folks loved to hate on SNES.

The opening salvo was just to piss off people and help me emphasize that I am burnt out on the "Top 10" approach to video games/platforms.

Burnt out.

I am not arguing that the Jag is great and would win a console war.

I am defending the honor of those who genuinely explore all games, even games that aren't endorsed by hipsters, nerds, pcefx, Illuminati, Pitchfork, etc.

The best way to make this point is to piss off everyone with pro-Jaguar shot across the bow.



Plus, I'm in  rant-mode.

[o.pwuaioc]

Who the fuck has time to explore the Jaguar library? Time's limited, job, family, friends, and other consoles take up way too much of my time to pay out the ridiculous amount of money it would cost to "explore" the Jaguar in depth. What I've tried on it so far was either a) better elsewhere, or b) utter tripe. That's not to say that there might be some good on it, but fuck off for saying I have to find it.

It's not hating, it's calling it like it is, and I'm burned out of people being pissed off that I don't like what they like. Why does anyone really care? Have a little light jabbing or ignore it. Who even takes this seriously anyway? So what if Dicer likes it and I don't. So what if I like the SNES and lukester doesn't. Does it really matter? It's all just opinions on the internet.

FWIW, I started the "Jag hate" by asking a simple and honest question: what great exclusives does the Jaguar have? I don't have time or patience or even desire to try out every version of Raiden. For me, a console needs to have a selling point that justifies its existence in the face of other consoles. To me, that's what the Jaguar lacks (and the only thing someone could give me to counter that was AvP, which isn't great, but was "bitd" ok to play if you were bored with Doom and Wolfenstein 3D).

[Gentlegamer]

We, of all people, should understand that there is something to appreciate in all consoles/platforms. If only for exploring some lesser-known games, there is something to be gained.

I'm serious.

That means the N64 bashing is also wearing thin.

I think that there is a fundamental difference between (1) defending a console from ridicule (aka appreciating a platform) VS. (2) bashing a platform (because you want to continue juvenile console wars, writ large).

This is basically what I have posted at sega-16 in a thread about N64, how it's surprising they take issue when someone (specifically in that case ABF) defends what he thinks is an underrated system. Sega fans, of all people, ought to understand.

I don't see that any different than those who have defended SMS, or Saturn, or even... PCE.

And I say this as someone who was a bona fide N64 hater for several years. I don't hate on Jaguar, I've never had a chance to play it, though it looks to be not worth the collector prices it would take to obtain a system and its 'good' games. That's about as far as I go with it. Too bad there's no emulation for it, that I know of.

[esteban]

Who the fuck has time to explore the Jaguar library? Time's limited, job, family, friends, and other consoles take up way too much of my time to pay out the ridiculous amount of money it would cost to "explore" the Jaguar in depth. What I've tried on it so far was either a) better elsewhere, or b) utter tripe. That's not to say that there might be some good on it, but fuck off for saying I have to find it.

It's not hating, it's calling it like it is, and I'm burned out of people being pissed off that I don't like what they like. Why does anyone really care? Have a little light jabbing or ignore it. Who even takes this seriously anyway? So what if Dicer likes it and I don't. So what if I like the SNES and lukester doesn't. Does it really matter? It's all just opinions on the internet.

FWIW, I started the "Jag hate" by asking a simple and honest question: what great exclusives does the Jaguar have? I don't have time or patience or even desire to try out every version of Raiden. For me, a console needs to have a selling point that justifies its existence in the face of other consoles. To me, that's what the Jaguar lacks (and the only thing someone could give me to counter that was AvP, which isn't great, but was "bitd" ok to play if you were bored with Doom and Wolfenstein 3D).

In the time you posted this, you could be playing the Jag.

Give it a hug and enjoy it.



Also, you realize that I don't love the Jaguar, correct?



And that I own and play XaviX?

I have issues.

But I don't hate the Jaguar.

[majors]

Too bad there's no emulation for it, that I know of.

PT still around? Or is dev dead on it? Love how they called the Jag EMU Project Tempest because that is pretty much what anyone wants it for.

[NecroPhile]

Honestly I think it's just become "cool" to hate on the N64.  Jag > N64?  You can't be serious...

Yarr.  N64 is pretty sucky compared to Saturn and PS, but it's not worse than the Jag, 3DO, Pippen, Loopy, etc.

It's okay to prefer one of the lesser systems, but do it for the right reasons.  Like me and the PC-FX - I'd much rather have it than any of its contemporaries, but I fully acknowledge that my love for it is because it's quirky and has those three important letters, not because its library/exclusives/hardware destroys the competition.

[o.pwuaioc]

In the time you posted this, you could be playing the Jag.

10 minutes? I guess that is all the time one would want to devote to it. ;)

[NecroPhile]

"Who cares if someone like the Jag and somebody else doesn't?"

<< goes back to screaming that the Jag sucks shit and only a retard would enjoy it >>

[o.pwuaioc]

"Who cares if someone like the Jag and somebody else doesn't?"

<< goes back to screaming that the Jag sucks shit and only a retard would enjoy it >>

Oh, c'mon now. I never said only a retard would enjoy it. After I said who cares, I asked a simple question and noted that when asked earlier it went just about unanswered.

[NecroPhile]

I was exaggerating for effect, but the implication is definitely there.

I suspect nobody bothered to answer your question because you've already dismissed the system, saying stuff like AvP doesn't count or that all its multiplatform games are the worst versions.  Everybody knows you can't fix bias and ignorance.

[o.pwuaioc]

I was exaggerating for effect, but the implication is definitely there.

I suspect nobody bothered to answer your question because you've already dismissed the system, saying stuff like AvP doesn't count or that all its multiplatform games are the worst versions.  Everybody knows you can't fix bias and ignorance.

I named specifics. I didn't say AvP doesn't count, I said it wasn't good. So if someone likes it, good on them! That's one. I also named specific games I thought were not the superior versions. That's not all games, maybe I'm overlooking one?

Nothing said about it so far is inspiring, though.

[NecroPhile]

You also agreed with Zeta about 'all the best games', but it doesn't matter.  Your claim that Tempest is inferior to its ports was enough to demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about.

[o.pwuaioc]

You also agreed with Zeta about 'all the best games', but it doesn't matter.  Your claim that Tempest is inferior to its ports was enough to demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about.

You should go back and read what I actually said:

What greats did it have that was exclusive to it? Even Tempest 2k is on PC and Saturn. Raiden, Rayman, Doom, NBA Jam TE, Zoop, Worms, WolfenStein 3D — all better elsewhere.

Raiden, Rayman, Doom, NBA Jam, Zoop, Worms, Wolfenstein 3D were listed as better elsewhere. Tempest 2K was listed as "not exclusive," not "not better."

[NecroPhile]

And you followed that up with "And the games I listed might be good, but it's not worth getting when I would just be playing a slightly shittier version of games I already own elsewhere."  Tempest 2K is one of the games you listed, tex.

You should change your name to o.phalcon (the o is short for obsidian).

[o.pwuaioc]

Yes, you clearly understand what I wrote more than I who actually wrote it. 

[NecroPhile]

Yes, I understand the English language and its proper use.  I can't help it if what you type doesn't match your intent.

But don't let me stop your crusade to stop people from enjoying the Jag.  They're clearly doing it wrong.

[o.pwuaioc]

You know, you're so right. All games I ever listed automatically fall under the umbrella of "better elsewhere." So that one time I mentioned Super Mario Bros, clearly I retroactively meant that it sucked balls.

This isn't even a matter of proper English and its use. The English is proper. If anything, it was just ambiguous, but it wasn't even that. It's just you grasping for straws in your daily trolling.

People can enjoy whatever console they want to enjoy. People are also free to not enjoy them. Not sure why your thick skull can't figure that much out.

[NecroPhile]

You know, you're so right. All games I ever listed automatically fall under the umbrella of "better elsewhere." So that one time I mentioned Super Mario Bros, clearly I retroactively meant that it sucked balls.

That list of Jag games was quoted within your 'better elsewhere' post; I didn't pull shit out of thin air or from unrelated posts.

Do you not understand the purpose of quoting?

This isn't even a matter of proper English and its use. The English is proper. If anything, it was just ambiguous, but it wasn't even that. It's just you grasping for straws in your daily trolling.

Black Falcons are never wrong, brah.

People can enjoy whatever console they want to enjoy. People are also free to not enjoy them. Not sure why your thick skull can't figure that much out.

Go back and read my first response to you from this morning.  Is it not obvious that I understand the point?  Equally obvious is that you can't accept that others like the Jag, so you demand they prove why it's worth enjoying, and if you weren't so full of bias and outright ignorance, maybe someone would be willing to tilt at your windmill.

[o.pwuaioc]

Go back and read my first response to you from this morning.  Is it not obvious that I understand the point?  Equally obvious is that you can't accept that others like the Jag, so you demand they prove why it's worth enjoying, and if you weren't so full of bias and outright ignorance, maybe someone would be willing to tilt at your windmill.

I didn't demand anyone to prove anything. I don't give a fuck who likes what. I explained why the conversation got started. How the fuck are you so thick sometimes? How many times were you dropped as a kid?

[SignOfZeta]

How long ago was it that I flamed the creator of this thread because he was wasting time on a complete N64 collection? Four months, two? Was it the same guy? I can't remember.

[CrackTiger]

Jaguar Raiden is an exclusive version with unique aesthetics. Whether or not anyone prefers other versions, it doesn't change the fact the Jaguar version can only be played on Jaguar.

I still play SFII' on PC Engine, even though there are technically superior versions out there and a couple that look and sound similar (unlike Jag Raiden).

The Jaguar library, like the 3DO, N64, etc, is still worthwhile. They're just less interesting to me than most consoles.

Collecting complete sets for the sake of it doesn't interest me though. I only want to try to get every Turbo game because the Turbo/PCE is more important to me than any other library and I want to document everything. But I don't expect to come close to ever getting 99% of the PCE library.

[NecroPhile]

I didn't demand anyone to prove anything. I don't give a fuck who likes what. I explained why the conversation got started. How the fuck are you so thick sometimes? How many times were you dropped as a kid?

Again, I was using hyperbole.  You weren't literally demanding anything, but it did seem you were interested in learning why others think it's worth looking at.

Who even takes this seriously anyway?

With all your f-bombs and personal attacks, apparently you do. 

[esteban]

Jahahajajaha.

This thread got krazee.

[Gredler]

utter tripe.

My brother loves tripe in his Pho, but I thought it was tendon not utter. Ah well, so much to learn, such little time. So busy experimenting with blurry graphic n64 games and buggy jag games to be bothered with posting in this thread.

[Jason_dicarlo85]

I have entertained this idea of replacing games with everdrives ect but so far just have been ideas in my head... I did however sell fire and ice nes and valkyrie profile for ps1 so I could buy some turbo stuff... I feel that was a big move for me and so far have not felt an ounce of sellers remorse

[BlueBMW]

I use everdrives now for the convenience of them.  As far as physical stuff, I'm been slimming back to just the stuff that I really really like and play.  On occasion I'll keep something that has specific nostalgic value that doesn't get played much.

I think collecting was a lot more fun maybe 5 to 10 years ago.  You could still find stuff at garage sales.  There were still used game stores to raid on weekends and they had prices worth dealing with.  I think now all the more conventional sources have dried up.  You're pretty much stuck with ebay and forums.  Ebay is always way overpriced, forums are hit and miss.  Usually its only a good price if its a buddy deal, otherwise its usually only marginally better than ebay.  As a result its just no fun anymore.

[jeffhlewis]

I use everdrives now for the convenience of them.  As far as physical stuff, I'm been slimming back to just the stuff that I really really like and play.  On occasion I'll keep something that has specific nostalgic value that doesn't get played much.

I think collecting was a lot more fun maybe 5 to 10 years ago.  You could still find stuff at garage sales.  There were still used game stores to raid on weekends and they had prices worth dealing with.  I think now all the more conventional sources have dried up.  You're pretty much stuck with ebay and forums.  Ebay is always way overpriced, forums are hit and miss.  Usually its only a good price if its a buddy deal, otherwise its usually only marginally better than ebay.  As a result its just no fun anymore.

I haven't given up the faith, but I'm just about in 100% agreement here. I have no plans to pare down the collection (still enjoy having the selection I do, plus I love bringing stuff to MGC for people to play), but my acquisitions have really come to a grinding halt. I've got just about everything I could possible want or ever play in a lifetime, and I've got more important things to spend my bucks on.

Watching items on my "wishlist" double in price over the last 14 months was really kind of a turn off to the whole hobby on some levels.

[roflmao]

I'm seriously thinking about selling 80+% of my gaming library and replacing the games with Everdrives for each console. I'm running out of space and I could really use the extra money right now. I'll still hold onto most of my Obey, but I don't have a ton of nostalgia for NES and Genesis stuff and somehow I've ended up with quite a few games for those consoles. They'd probably look better on someone else's shelf, and maybe even get played from time to time.

[EvilEvoIX]

I remember when the Jaguar first came out.  Boy did I buy into the Hype, 64 Bits?!?!?!?!  Skipping 32 bits!  Wow!!  I remember reading all about it, it's power and potential and the return of Atari to reclaim it's Crown.  Then the Games came.  I remember thinking, well, it's a nice looking 16 Bit game and Cyber Morph is kinda OK but nothing too special.  I remember reading the reviews and they got like 3-4 out of ten and the reviewers were always complaining that the games didn't measure up to the Bittness.  The creaziest was Doom, NO MUSIC, how does that happen?  Why did it happen?  Did Atari really need to use the sound hardware for the Grafx?  I'll never understand that.

After the system died, I picked one up brand new or for $50 and a Stack of games for $5 each.  I played he shit outa Rayman and Power Drive Rally, I really tried to get into Checkered Flag but I believe it as 7 FPS and almost unplayable.  Tevor Mcfur was a Joke, Cybermorph was simply too repetitive but not bad.  I have AVP, never caught my interest that much.  Iron Soldier was fun, still is, but when compared to PS1/Saturn Titles looked really dated.  Doom was amazing, but no music.

I also bought the Jag CD, I couldn't believe how bad Blue Lightning was.  I sold everything and now have most of that stuff back but rarely play it but I am happy to have a working Jag CD.


As far as collecting is going, it's getting out of hand price wise, I hope it crashes and people get over it.  I am coming to the realization that Everdrives are in my future.

[synbiosfan]

I'm seriously thinking about selling 80+% of my gaming library and replacing the games with Everdrives for each console. I'm running out of space and I could really use the extra money right now. I'll still hold onto most of my Obey, but I don't have a ton of nostalgia for NES and Genesis stuff and somehow I've ended up with quite a few games for those consoles. They'd probably look better on someone else's shelf, and maybe even get played from time to time.

I bought everdrives and modchips for many consoles the last few years. I ended up being off work and sold a lot of my games. A lot of "How much am I going to play it?" thoughts went through my head. Quite a bit of it to people I know from the net so they went to good people.

[synbiosfan]

Double post, sorry:(

[Psycho Punch]

Guys, since you're all praising the Jag so much answer me some stuff: was there any port planned of any Tex Murphy adventure game on the Jaguar? I could swear I saw a review/preview of one for the Jaguar, to this day I haven't found the game and I can't find the magazine anymore.

[xcrement5x]

I think collecting was a lot more fun maybe 5 to 10 years ago. You could still find stuff at garage sales.  There were still used game stores to raid on weekends and they had prices worth dealing with.  I think now all the more conventional sources have dried up.  You're pretty much stuck with ebay and forums.  Ebay is always way overpriced, forums are hit and miss.  Usually its only a good price if its a buddy deal, otherwise its usually only marginally better than ebay.  As a result its just no fun anymore.

I have to agree with you 100% there.  Yesterday I went by the thrift store near my house like I occasionally do hoping to find something neat.  Nothing too amazing in the case so I get ready to walk around the rest of the store and I see a guy checking out with a ton of PS1.  I overheard a bit of their conversation and while the cashier said something like, "Oh Spyro! I remember that as a kid", the guy pretty much said he was just planning on reselling them all.  It just kind of rubbed me the wrong way and later on as I was driving home it made me think about how there really rarely is much joy in hunting out stuff for me anymore. 

You used to be able to go to a garage sale or something and get a box of carts cheap and mess around with the games for a least a couple of weeks or more.  Now it feels like every attempt to hit thrifts or something is a battle which makes it not much fun.  At least that gives me more time to play ;)