I think I killed my DUO-RX when RGB modding

SegaSonic91 · 12/28/2015, 01:45 PM

Thanks to a stupid, goddamned dodgy power supply (which never played up prior), I had some trouble installing an RGB amp I bought from mickcris. I soldered and desoldered the RGB wires far too many times because I was getting no power when I turned the system on, thinking it was something I was causing with a bad wire or a bridge.

The pins ended up with some excess solder on them which I tried to drag off with the aid of flux. All it did was make a mess of the pins and now I have pins that are half broken or missing the solder on the end of the leg (pad?). I now have seriously messed up colour and missing information. The "SUPER CD-ROM SYSTEM" logo for instance, is missing all words except for "SUPER" and half the "M" from SYSTEM. I was hoping this could be salvaged somehow by running wires from the chip to vias on the board. I have no clue where these vias would be though

I decided to solder the "RGB" lines from the C6260 chip in the DUO I am recapping and it was perfect first time, grrrr. If only I could go back a fortnight!

SegaSonic91 · 01/03/2016, 09:36 AM

Aaaaaaand now I get a green screen and nothing else be it HuCard or CD. Goddamn it! The side of the chip with pins 41-60 have been badly damaged. Would it be possible to link the legs of the chip to points on the board? I'd just like to know if it is possible to fix it, or if it is a lost cause. I was hoping that one of the experts could chime in with some advice.

leonk · 01/03/2016, 10:11 AM

Turbo Duo RX are not cheap. Unless you have the proper professional equipment to solder with such fine pitch, leave it to an expert modder. It will cost you less than the price of now replacing that duo.

From personal experience, fixing botched solder jobs on SOIC ICs is more effort than installing the RGB mod. A lot of the via's (if they exist. Sometimes they're under other ICs) requires you to remove the solder mask first. That is assuming you didn't kill the graphic processor at this point.

You need help from one of the pros now. Sorry.

Keith Courage · 01/03/2016, 04:26 PM

you should contact theSteve here in the forums. He is the man at replacing and/or reworking chips.

thesteve · 01/03/2016, 04:54 PM

take a picture

SegaSonic91 · 01/03/2016, 06:04 PM

Thanks guys. I am almost too embarrassed and ashamed to take a photo

I will get a photo up later today. I let someone touch the system whom said "I might be able to fix it", big mistake.

The original issue was simply that I soldered and desoldered quite a few times because I was not getting power. That turned out to be the ac adaptor and NOTHING to do with the soldering! Because of this, there ended up being an excess of solder on the pins that was bridging several legs. Dragging the solder both across the length of the chip as well as down the legs, only made it worse. I then bought and used some desoldering braid which removed the solder, but by this time, half of the solder on several legs was missing and I was getting screwed up colour.

The person that said they "might be able to fix it", seems to have added more solder, tried to remove it with braid and the braid stuck to the chip. It lifted several legs and made the chip look a thousand times worse. Grrrrr! It comes down to my stupidity for this happening in the first place so I do not blame them. Meanwhile, I added the "RGB" lines to the DUO I am recapping and it was perfect first time. I do not know why I did not try the DUO first. If I'd screwed up on that, I would not be AS annoyed as I am now! The RX in question was a secondary RX I bought early last year for the purpose of modding. I never touch "original" systems when modding, I always buy a second or third. My "original" RX is in its box, safe and sound. This RX cost me a "whopping" ¥6200, naked but with the shitty RX pad. The prices have blown out so much in the past 4 or 5 months, if I tried to replace it, it would be quadruple that! Even naked Rs are going for stupid prices on yahoo now! I still have the second IFU set I bought (¥3000!) along with the DUO I'm recapping and a recently purchased SG and SCD2 for my RGB needs. I am just waiting on ac adaptors for the DUO and IFU to arrive. I would have done the simple IFU mod first if I could find my old adaptor from the IFU system I bought back in 1996. I am worrying about making that damn hole for the DIN8 socket....

NightWolve · 01/03/2016, 06:53 PM

It happens, I f--ked around too much with my SNES and the 5VDC regulator broke down, sending the full input voltage from the power supply (10 - 12 Volts) into the motherboard which damaged one of the SRAM chips. Certain games have graphical glitches now... :/

To repair it, I have to learn how to desolder/resolder whole chips at once and thanks to BlueBMW/Byron, I have several SRAM chips from dead boards he donated to me, though I have no means to test which ones are good. Definitely gonna take them from the Sony sound modules which turn out are using the same SRAM model as it's highly unlikely damage ever occurred there.

In your situation, you should've taken it to the best of the best, Le Steve... That's where all the other modders send units when it's beyond their capabilities. You want a trained electrical engineer from the get-go (who also loves PCE in this case), not hobbyist hacks (and I mean that in a polite sense) that play electrical engineer on the side.

thesteve · 01/03/2016, 07:36 PM

well the full circuit is documented in the TG16 repair manual, so wiring isnt an issue to trace

mickcris · 01/03/2016, 07:44 PM

Quote from: NightWolve on 01/03/2016, 06:53 PMIn your situation, you should've taken it to the best of the best, Le Steve... That's where all the other modders send units when it's beyond their capabilities. You want a trained electrical engineer from the get-go (who also loves PCE in this case), not hobbyist hacks (and I mean that in a polite sense) that play electrical engineer on the side.

The Steve isn't your typical engineer though. Most, I work with at least, are not going to moonlight as repair technicians. Some of us (I assume others besides myself) have at least accosiate degrees in electronics and work as technicians during the day. The Steve is really good at what he does though and I have much respect for him.

The OP is in Australia so that is part is of the issue. Shipping his board somewhere is not going to be cheap.

PunkCryborg · 01/03/2016, 08:12 PM

Everyone makes mistakes when they are learning to do this kind of stuff, don't feel ashamed. I sent a Duo-R to thesteve a couple years ago that I was attempting to region mod and I screwed up big time but all is good now. I have learned a lot since then, got better tools and can sometimes even fix stuff that my friends mess up on and I'm glad I never gave up working on stuff because of my mistake several years ago.

NightWolve · 01/03/2016, 08:15 PM

Quote from: mickcris on 01/03/2016, 07:44 PMThe Steve isn't your typical engineer though. Most, I work with at least, are not going to moonlight as repair technicians. Some of us (I assume others besides myself) have at least accosiate degrees in electronics and work as technicians during the day. The Steve is really good at what he does though and I have much respect for him.

The OP is in Australia so that is part is of the issue. Shipping his board somewhere is not going to be cheap.

If your point is there aren't much trained EEs offering repair services, that's fine. The ideal is stated because here it exists, a trained EE who offers PCE repair services. That's what you want in principle from the get-go and it's available which is why I state it - you ship it to somebody else, you risk another whole round of reshipping to him which is where fan modders/repairers ship to when they can't fix it. Most of the modders I know here aren't professionally trained specifically in the EE field so that limits them to cap replacement jobs, parts replacement (like the CD laser) and video mods, etc.

Anyway, that he's down in Aussieland is the issue. He chose someone in his country I take it.

mickcris · 01/03/2016, 09:01 PM

Quote from: NightWolve on 01/03/2016, 08:15 PM
Quote from: mickcris on 01/03/2016, 07:44 PMThe Steve isn't your typical engineer though. Most, I work with at least, are not going to moonlight as repair technicians. Some of us (I assume others besides myself) have at least accosiate degrees in electronics and work as technicians during the day. The Steve is really good at what he does though and I have much respect for him.

The OP is in Australia so that is part is of the issue. Shipping his board somewhere is not going to be cheap.
If your point is there aren't much trained EEs offering repair services, that's fine. The ideal is stated because here it exists, a trained EE who offers PCE repair services. That's what you want in principle from the get-go and it's available which is why I state it - you ship it to somebody else, you risk another whole round of reshipping to him which is where fan modders/repairers ship to when they can't fix it. Most of the modders I know here aren't professionally trained specifically in the EE field so that limits them to cap replacement jobs, parts replacement (like the CD laser) and video mods, etc.

Anyway, that he's down in Aussieland is the issue. He chose someone in his country I take it.

I guess i just found it a little offensive that you called eveyone besides thesteve a hack. I have proffessional training in the EE field (an assosiates degree) that qualifies me as an electronics technician and I assume that some of the other modders on here do also, although i do not know this for a fact. I dont offer repair services though and never will. TBH I work in the semiconductor industry and dont really use circuit level troubleshooting on a day to day basis so i have lost a lot of that knowlegde.

I do agree that sending something complicated to thesteve is your best bet though.

My point about the engineer thing was that normally how it works is that engineers design things and technicians repair then.

thesteve · 01/03/2016, 11:15 PM

i do know of a few engineers here actually, but ive been fixing stuff since before most of these things even existed

thesteve · 01/03/2016, 11:17 PM

and i have done work on on in Australia and shipping was not only expensive, it was really bad (they kept smashing the box when it came home)

SegaSonic91 · 01/04/2016, 12:04 AM

Thank you for all the comments.

Quote from: thesteve on 01/03/2016, 11:17 PMand i have done work on on in Australia and shipping was not only expensive, it was really bad (they kept smashing the box when it came home)

That sucks

I was thinking of sending it, too. AusPost is usually good with packages and I've never had a problem other than a huge box of LDs I bought from Japan 15 years ago. Now packages from Amazon are a different story. I've had many damaged games from Amazon US. Same with things sent via USPS.

I was thinking that I could send just the PCB, well padded in a box. If I did manage to send it to you, how much would the repair of the HuC6260 cost? Even if shipping is not cheap, it has to be cheaper than buying a new system at today's prices. I would assume the chip needs replacing, but I will take a pic later.

I am the one that stuffed it myself and it was just a friend of mine that ruined it more

I have no idea about anyone in this country that could fix old consoles. Kinda sucks considering this is the country where the NESRGB and PSIO devises are made. I have now modded one of my IFU systems and have the C6260 wired up on the DUO. Makes me even more angry with myself for screwing the RX!

NightWolve · 01/04/2016, 12:29 AM

Quote from: mickcris on 01/03/2016, 09:01 PMI guess i just found it a little offensive that you called eveyone besides thesteve a hack. I have proffessional training in the EE field (an assosiates degree) that qualifies me as an electronics technician and I assume that some of the other modders on here do also, although i do not know this for a fact. I dont offer repair services though and never will. TBH I work in the semiconductor industry and dont really use circuit level troubleshooting on a day to day basis so i have lost a lot of that knowlegde.

I do agree that sending something complicated to thesteve is your best bet though.

My point about the engineer thing was that normally how it works is that engineers design things and technicians repair then.

Well, that's why I added the polite qualifier to it. I didn't have a more polite term to think of, but the point stands. A % of them don't have pro EE credentials and you need to be aware of their background. And that is why I don't promote them, not at the top of the list anyway. I tell people who the best of the best here is, which is what I would want to know if I was in need of repairing my system, and that is Steve.

Now, the other modders are free to promote themselves and make their qualifications known themselves. They do.

Since you don't offer repair services, there's nothing really directed at you. You just think the others who do have pro EE training ? And you wanna positively generalize the majority of them as having that training and ignore that you got a % of fans who just learned as they go ?

I provide the info as I would want it. A % of modders/repairers learned soldering skills outside of their normal day jobs and are good for cap replacement, pot tuning, and some times CD laser replacement. But if a cap replacement job doesn't restore a unit to working order and you have chip/IC damage, they're no good to you, and that unit is gonna have to go thru another round of shipping to a real EE. More shipping around equals more potential damage as well.

So, I'm not gonna positively generalize modders/repairers as having EE training out of some sense of niceness or politeness and what not. That is something the public needs to be aware of when looking for someone to fix their console one way or another. Check if they are or not!

As far as PCEFX, when people come here and need repairs done, who I'm gonna promote at the top of the list is Steve. If his plate is full however, I'm gonna tell ya to try turbokon, 2nd place. If both of them are backed up, I'll cautiously tell ya to try Keith Courage. But, as I said, if it was a serious IC/chip issue, something that requires electronics debugging, etc. it's gonna make its way around to Steve and I'm not aware of any other repairer that has that standing in our forum, the goto guy when nobody can fix it, which is him.

If you know of somebody else with such credentials, feel free to promote them. But don't just assume the others have professional electronics training when they don't. It is something to check first.

BlueBMW · 01/04/2016, 12:34 AM

My credentials as a "modder" / repairer:

None

I worked as an auto mechanic for a good 9 years and I'm a mechanical engineering student now but I have really had no formal training in electronics. I learned a lot of the more advanced stuff from ol Steve himself.

thesteve · 01/04/2016, 12:38 AM

well i havent see the damage yet, and have no way of knowing if you damaged any chips

mickcris · 01/04/2016, 12:39 AM

you are right. i do not know if anyone has any credentials. i was just assuming that since if i did not have some degree of training, that i would not be doing some of the things that i do. although you are correct that there are others that probably just learned as they go, which there is nothing wrong with that either.

and sorry about derailing the thread. i think im done making off topic comments.

SegaSonic91 · 01/04/2016, 02:13 AM

I know one thing for sure, if I was in the US, I would have sent the RX to mickcris to install for me

The IFU/expansion port jobs are simple, but I was always worried about that damn C6260 chip.

Ok, brace yourselves, here is a picture of the chip. Looks worse than I thought it was

https://s19.postimg.cc/d158ol5sz/image.jpg

thesteve · 01/04/2016, 02:37 AM

lucky you, looks like only 4 traces need repaired
the others were not used

mickcris · 01/04/2016, 02:51 AM

It does look a bit worse than your last pic. Luckily none of the legs are broken off. I would see how much it would cost to send to thesteve if he will take it. Unless you can find someone good in Australia. Not sure if you tried to look up emu_kidid (spelled the name wrong before) yet to see if he'd look at it. Not really sure though I he does that kind of thing. Just know he's going to be installing the ultra HDMI kits there soon.

thesteve · 01/04/2016, 03:02 AM

you only need to look at 46 62 63 64

SegaSonic91 · 01/04/2016, 03:19 AM

Damn it! I carefully lifted the legs from 51 onwards to try and straighten them so they could be aligned properly and soldered back in place. I was fixing the last leg, and the bastard broke off. It was either 51 or 52. If it was 51, i guess it is screwed for RGB!

SegaSonic91 · 01/04/2016, 03:20 AM

Quote from: mickcris on 01/04/2016, 02:51 AMIt does look a bit worse than your last pic. Luckily none of the legs are broken off. I would see how much it would cost to send to thesteve if he will take it. Unless you can find someone good in Australia. Not sure if you tried to look up emu_kidid (spelled the name wrong before) yet to see if he'd look at it. Not really sure though I he does that kind of thing. Just know he's going to be installing the ultra HDMI kits there soon.

I wish so much that it still looked like my first picture

NightWolve · 01/04/2016, 03:36 AM

Quote from: SegaSonic91 on 01/04/2016, 02:13 AMOk, brace yourselves, here is a picture of the chip. Looks worse than I thought it was
https://s19.postimg.cc/d158ol5sz/image.jpg

Quote from: SegaSonic91 on 01/04/2016, 03:19 AMDamn it! I carefully lifted the legs from 51 onwards to try and straighten them so they could be aligned properly and soldered back in place. I was fixing the last leg, and the bastard broke off. It was either 51 or 52. If it was 51, i guess it is screwed for RGB!

Ouch... RIP. :/

mickcris · 01/04/2016, 03:38 AM

that sucks. if you are really careful, you can dremel off part of the top of the chip to expose enough of the leg to solder too. only try this though as a last resort. i have done it before and had both sucess and failure.

you can also see about getting someone to replace the ic.

SegaSonic91 · 01/04/2016, 04:22 AM

I'm not sure if this is a silly question or not, but with replacing the IC, does it have to be a HuChip or just an 80 pin IC of such-and-such type? I may ask one of the places I know that f that mods and repairs modern systems about replacing the chip if it does not have to be a HuChip. I can't imagine that there are a bunch of systems out there being striped of their chips to fix others, or so I hope.

mickcris · 01/04/2016, 05:03 AM

it does need to be the same. i think you can get one from a normal pc engine though IIRC so that would be cheaper. some systems have an A after the 6260 but i think they should be interchangeable. thesteve would know for sure.

SegaSonic91 · 01/04/2016, 07:53 AM

Thanks mickcris. I do have a Core Grafx and Core Grafx II, one of which I would be willing to sacrifice. I'll ask Steve and find out how much he will charge to swap the chip and if it works out too much with postage, I'll look closer to home.

thesteve · 01/04/2016, 03:32 PM

all the PCE/turbografx chips are interchangeable between systems

PunkCryborg · 01/04/2016, 03:51 PM

Lots of aussie game tech gurus here http://www.aussiearcade.com.au/content.php

leonk · 01/05/2016, 01:28 AM

The problem is you tried to lift 1 leg at a time! The correct solution now is to use a hot air reflow station to remove the entire IC. Clean the board, see whats broken and test the IC. Then, if the IC is good, solder it down and repair.

If legs are broken / missing, get a new IC from a donor board and transfer it over. This is very common repair process with arcade PCB's, just now applied to a Duo.

thesteve · 01/05/2016, 01:33 AM

except in this case we have the schematic and know most of the pins lifted didnt have traces, and the ones that are visible except 1

SegaSonic91 · 01/05/2016, 07:20 PM

Quote from: PunkCryborg on 01/04/2016, 03:51 PMLots of aussie game tech gurus here http://www.aussiearcade.com.au/content.php

Fantastic, just the kind of thing I need! Thanks!

I feel bad about having to sacrifice a Core Grafx system, but I'd rather have my RX back over a system I will never use.

blueraven · 01/05/2016, 07:44 PM

Sega,

Don't feel so bad; my first Turbo Repair back in 2008 was terrible; I ripped up a bunch of the traces and nearly destroyed a Turbo Express... but I posted about it here like you did with this Duo, and Steve and chop5 walked me through the repairs and helped me get the unit running again. It looks like Frankenstein inside, but I still have it and play it frequently.

Getting your Duo going sounds possible. Good luck, and keep us posted.

mackdanger · 01/05/2016, 08:32 PM

Quote from: SegaSonic91 on 01/05/2016, 07:20 PMI feel bad about having to sacrifice a Core Grafx system, but I'd rather have my RX back over a system I will never use.

Isn't the 6260 inside the Ten no Koe as well? Unless prices have shifted since I last looked, I think those are cheaper than a Core Grafx.

In closing, I just wanted to say, don't let this experience turn you off from wanting to do mods / repairs. I'm sure everyone has some stories to tell. I finally had my first big fail and killed a Super Famicom. Once you get the hang of it, the feeling of knowing you can do it yourself is really rewarding. So hang in there.

thesteve · 01/05/2016, 10:09 PM

dont see why the ten no koe would have a video processor

blueraven · 01/05/2016, 10:16 PM

I know they have a watch battery inside them. I recall an ancient "repair" thread:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5836.msg101143#msg101143

mackdanger · 01/05/2016, 11:04 PM

Quote from: blueraven on 01/05/2016, 10:16 PMI know they have a watch battery inside them. I recall an ancient "repair" thread:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5836.msg101143#msg101143

I should have been clearer. I am talking about the Ten no Koe 2, the thing that clips on the back of the Core Grafx. I remember when I cracked mine open to put an RGB amp in it, there was a chip that looked like the 6260 sitting on the board inside it. I just can't remember what chip it was.

blueraven · 01/05/2016, 11:14 PM

Quote from: mackdanger on 01/05/2016, 11:04 PM
Quote from: blueraven on 01/05/2016, 10:16 PMI know they have a watch battery inside them. I recall an ancient "repair" thread:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5836.msg101143#msg101143
I should have been clearer. I am talking about the Ten no Koe 2, the thing that clips on the back of the Core Grafx. I remember when I cracked mine open to put an RGB amp in it, there was a chip that looked like the 6260 sitting on the board inside it. I just can't remember what chip it was.

Ahh, well then I have no idea, because I have never owned a TK2.

HuMan · 01/05/2016, 11:36 PM

Quote from: SegaSonic91 on 01/05/2016, 07:20 PMFantastic, just the kind of thing I need! Thanks!

I feel bad about having to sacrifice a Core Grafx system, but I'd rather have my RX back over a system I will never use.

Why not buy a junky white PCE from Japan?

mickcris · 01/06/2016, 02:03 AM

Quote from: mackdanger on 01/05/2016, 11:04 PM
Quote from: blueraven on 01/05/2016, 10:16 PMI know they have a watch battery inside them. I recall an ancient "repair" thread:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5836.msg101143#msg101143
I should have been clearer. I am talking about the Ten no Koe 2, the thing that clips on the back of the Core Grafx. I remember when I cracked mine open to put an RGB amp in it, there was a chip that looked like the 6260 sitting on the board inside it. I just can't remember what chip it was.

That probably was the save ram chip

edit:
its HuC6201. not exactly sure what its for.

wilykat · 01/06/2016, 07:52 PM

Quote from: mackdanger on 01/05/2016, 11:04 PM
Quote from: blueraven on 01/05/2016, 10:16 PMI know they have a watch battery inside them. I recall an ancient "repair" thread:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5836.msg101143#msg101143
I should have been clearer. I am talking about the Ten no Koe 2, the thing that clips on the back of the Core Grafx. I remember when I cracked mine open to put an RGB amp in it, there was a chip that looked like the 6260 sitting on the board inside it. I just can't remember what chip it was.

No: https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=16879.0
Used 6201 which is like a CPLD to handle bankswitching between the host console and the 2k SRAM chip. Not video chip for sure.

The video chip only exists in consoles so dig up those junky PC Engine or Coregrafx for the parts.

SegaSonic91 · 01/08/2016, 02:43 PM

Thank you to everyone for the kind and encouraging words

I will keep modding stuff and I really think that I learnt many lessons through this horrible mess. Just wish it didn't take the "death" of a DUO-RX to give me the experience. I intend to grab a NESRGB from Tim once I have some spare money, hopefully soon. With all the games coming out in Japan in Jan/Feb, spare cash will be sparse. Desoldering the PPU should be a nice "fun" challenge for me to do. I have 3 or 4 junky Famicoms that I have no use for, so I may practice on one of those first. Still have not decided if I want to do one of my Twins (I have 5) or my AV Famicom with FDS system.

I have the DUO RGB wires soldered to the 6260 chip, and I did it with not a single problem. Have yet to put the DIN8 in, yet, but will do it when I finish off the caps tomorrow. The IFU has all the wires soldered but not yet hooked up to the amp or DIN8.

I do not have a 15mm drill bit, nor do I have a dremel so I am trying to work out the best way to drill/make the hole in the IFU case for the DIN8 to be installed. The psu's I ordered should be here on Monday, I hope.

The place I ordered it from sent an email on the 30 December saying the items had been sent, but did not give me a tracking number. I emailed and asked about it a few days later and when they replied, the tracking was showing that it had been sent on 5 Jan. It makes me think that they forgot to send it and only did so once I emailed them. They should have been here already. I know they are in the country, but I do not know WHERE in the country they are. EMS from Japan always annoyingly goes to Sydney. I am hoping this French package has come to Brisbane directly. I want to make sure the systems are ready to be tested as soon as the psus arrive.

blueraven · 01/08/2016, 03:40 PM

Good luck with it. Sounds like you're on your way to a better conclusion.

My solution for the dead PCE Duo that I'm currently dealing with:

Due to unforeseen circumstances the HU6280 chip is totally fried. I have a white PC Engine that has a cracked casing and broken power switch. I will be transplanting the chip from the white PCE over to the Duo using a heat gun or similar method.

Quote from: SegaSonic91 on 01/08/2016, 02:43 PMI will keep modding stuff and I really think that I learnt many lessons through this horrible mess. Just wish it didn't take the "death" of a DUO-RX to give me the experience.

It can be frustrating, but all i can say is GO SLOW. Moving to quickly or with too much repetition (soldering, desoldering) is what causes most of the damage in these cases. Some of us, myself included, had to learn via Trial By Fire.

SegaSonic91 · 01/08/2016, 03:50 PM

The replacement really seems like it will be needed to me. If it can be fixed without, that would be nice but I think I ruined the chip too much. I have the Core Grafx that came with my extremely cheap IFU system I bought last year for RGB modding, and the Super CD-ROM2 I just bought to go along with the Super Grafx I also just bought, has a Core Grafx II that will not be needed. I am not even sure of their condition. I would sacrifice the Grafx II over the Grafx, I think.

thesteve · 01/08/2016, 11:44 PM

heres a thought
the core is a nice unit, but blueraven should have an extra 6260 as he needs the 6280 for a duo