Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)

[FraGMarE]

Super Castlevania IV - Theme of Simon Belmont

6 channels.  All PSG.  NO samples.  NONE.

Super Castlevania IV - Theme of Simon Belmont (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Chiptune Cover) on SoundCloud

*drops the fucking mouse and walks out...*

[Gredler]

[ccovell]

The middle of the song is good to great, but the intro needs a fuller/noisier organ sound -- and in the bridge/"break", too.

Also, maybe you have the volume levels too low on instruments that fade in?  In the original, where there are some that fade in, I could hear them faintly, while in this cover, they're still silent & fade in like a second later than they should.

[FraGMarE]

The middle of the song is good to great, but the intro needs a fuller/noisier organ sound -- and in the bridge/"break", too.

Also, maybe you have the volume levels too low on instruments that fade in?  In the original, where there are some that fade in, I could hear them faintly, while in this cover, they're still silent & fade in like a second later than they should.

Yea, it's probably all just a volume/mixing issue.  This source track is HORRENDOUSLY intricate, which at first astounded me, as it's such an early title on the SNES.  But then it makes sense... it's Konami making a Castlevania game, you KNOW they're going to go in, dicks swinging

I checked all the volume levels against the source material, but like I said, it's horrendously intricate, so it's entirely possible I overlooked something.  I'll look again and see if I can find a discrepancy.

[LostFlunky]

Nice!

Would this max out a PCE for sound output or would you be able to use this in a game?

[CrackTiger]

Nice!

Would this max out a PCE for sound output or would you be able to use this in a game?

No samples means no problem.

[FraGMarE]

Nice!

Would this max out a PCE for sound output or would you be able to use this in a game?

I'd probably shuffle some stuff around in the track, so it only uses 5 channels (at least most of the time), but that's not an issue.  I just wanted to get the 6 channel version done before I go moving a bunch of stuff.  but, no,  there's nothing special about this tune that would disqualify it from being used in a game.

Somewhere, in an alternate universe, Konami still had a hard-on for the PC-Engine after the SNES came out and produced SCVIV on the PC-Engine.  And this is what the music sounded like.  At least, that's what I prefer to think. 

[elmer]

Nice! 

I wish that I could just drop a link to a working ROM here ... but I'm afraid that I can't.

I've looked at the .dmf that you posted, and you're making extensive use of the Tremolo and Volume Slide effects, and I haven't implemented those, yet. 

But at least you've given me another test track for when I do! 

[FraGMarE]

Nice! 

I wish that I could just drop a link to a working ROM here ... but I'm afraid that I can't.

I've looked at the .dmf that you posted, and you're making extensive use of the Tremolo and Volume Slide effects, and I haven't implemented those, yet. 

But at least you've given me another test track for when I do! 

I'm honestly thinking about stripping those OUT and replacing it all with manual volume commands, to fix the things CCovell mentioned.  the Tremolo and Slide commands are nice and easy to throw in there, but they kind of lock up the other volume commands until they're done, and they don't really offer much control.... and i need MOAR CONTROL!

As for a working ROM, this should work for anybody with an emulator or TED:

Theme of Simon Belmont HES File Download

It might not be Huzak Optimized and Elmer Approved, but an optimized, in-game version isn't really going to sound much different anyway.

[Michirin9801]

This is certainly well-composed Fragmare, but the problem with this song is that the waveforms you've used are just too soft, that's why it doesn't have the same 'punch' that the Super Nintendo version has...  I've noticed you're using all 6 channels for the intro part, but I think you could achieve a much better effect with only 3 or 4 channels if only you were using a better waveform and took some liberties with the composition instead of sticking to the SNES version as closely as possible...

Here's an example of what you could have done to make it sound better in the intro: http://sta.sh/018ppi45vunl
Instead of playing the same note on every channel only slightly different, you could play the same note in different octaves and at different phases and use a 4th channel to do a delay/reverb effect, and it already sounds much stronger that way!
Of course the intro isn't the only part that's a little weak, but the other parts would sound quite a bit better if only you used better waveforms, some that aren't so soft you know?

http://www.deflemask.com/forum/show-off-your-work/official-wavetable-thread/msg3960/#msg3960
^Check out this thread on the Deflemask Forum, SpoonyBard posted some awesome wavetables in there! The Falcom waves and the Sakimoto Waves are must-haves, try experimenting with those and see what you can do ^^

[spenoza]

That bassy note is so rough. Despite that, some of your other instruments are spot on. Very impressed. There are some tiny timing issues, however, with one particular note sequence.

[FraGMarE]

Minor update to the SoundCloud link.  Adjusted some instruments and whatnot

This is certainly well-composed Fragmare, but the problem with this song is that the waveforms you've used are just too soft, that's why it doesn't have the same 'punch' that the Super Nintendo version has...  I've noticed you're using all 6 channels for the intro part, but I think you could achieve a much better effect with only 3 or 4 channels if only you were using a better waveform and took some liberties with the composition instead of sticking to the SNES version as closely as possible...

Here's an example of what you could have done to make it sound better in the intro: http://sta.sh/018ppi45vunl
Instead of playing the same note on every channel only slightly different, you could play the same note in different octaves and at different phases and use a 4th channel to do a delay/reverb effect, and it already sounds much stronger that way!
Of course the intro isn't the only part that's a little weak, but the other parts would sound quite a bit better if only you used better waveforms, some that aren't so soft you know?

http://www.deflemask.com/forum/show-off-your-work/official-wavetable-thread/msg3960/#msg3960
^Check out this thread on the Deflemask Forum, SpoonyBard posted some awesome wavetables in there! The Falcom waves and the Sakimoto Waves are must-haves, try experimenting with those and see what you can do ^^

What's funny is, I copied the waveforms straight from the SNES channel rips, but I didn't like how noisy and grindy they sounded coming out of the PC-Engine, so i softened them and mellowed them out a little bit.  This might be a difference in taste, because I actually had it sounding more noisy in an earlier WIP version, but decided I didn't like how that sounded... I dunno, when I listen to the SNES track, I don't get an noisy or grindy impresession from any of the instruments, maybe that's just me.  I wanted to make the PC-Engine version sound smooth, like butter, because when I listen to the SNES track, to my ears anyway, it has a very soft, mellow tone overlaid onto a very deep bass and strong, snarey drum track... that's what I was going for here.

I like your technique with the [E5xx] command, though.  Gives quite a nice slightly "off-kilter" sound to it, that's quite appropriate.

That bassy note is so rough. Despite that, some of your other instruments are spot on. Very impressed. There are some tiny timing issues, however, with one particular note sequence.

What's the time mark?  You have no idea how OCD i am about getting the timing perfect.    Everything *should* be nailed, but give me the time mark of the suspected offending note(s) and i'll check again.

One thing I will mention is that within the source material there were what sounded like about 2 or 3 sour notes.  I actually left them in the mix here, for the purpose of getting something closer to 1:1, note for note to the SNES version.  I might remove them from a future revision.

[Michirin9801]

What's funny is, I copied the waveforms straight from the SNES channel rips, but I didn't like how noisy and grindy they sounded coming out of the PC-Engine, so i softened them and mellowed them out a little bit.  This might be a difference in taste, because I actually had it sounding more noisy in an earlier WIP version, but decided I didn't like how that sounded... I dunno, when I listen to the SNES track, I don't get an noisy or grindy impresession from any of the instruments, maybe that's just me.  I wanted to make the PC-Engine version sound smooth, like butter, because when I listen to the SNES track, to my ears anyway, it has a very soft, mellow tone overlaid onto a very deep bass and strong, snarey drum track... that's what I was going for here.

I believe the SNES has a low-pass filter, but I'm unsure, and I know from personal experience that copying waveforms from another system doesn't always yield the best results on the PC engine, it's often a wiser idea to go with different waveforms that sound better than to go with similar waveforms that sound weak...
And well, it's not exactly about sounding more noisy, it's about sounding more powerful, kinda like the SNES...

Also, even if you're not gonna use them on this song, you should definitely check out those wavetables from that thread, maybe use them as a basis for your own custom waves, who knows?

That bassy note is so rough. Despite that, some of your other instruments are spot on. Very impressed. There are some tiny timing issues, however, with one particular note sequence.

What's the time mark?  You have no idea how OCD i am about getting the timing perfect.    Everything *should* be nailed, but give me the time mark of the suspected offending note(s) and i'll check again.

It's at 1:26 on your soundcloud link, that part sounds a little off if you know what I mean...

[FraGMarE]

What's funny is, I copied the waveforms straight from the SNES channel rips, but I didn't like how noisy and grindy they sounded coming out of the PC-Engine, so i softened them and mellowed them out a little bit.  This might be a difference in taste, because I actually had it sounding more noisy in an earlier WIP version, but decided I didn't like how that sounded... I dunno, when I listen to the SNES track, I don't get an noisy or grindy impresession from any of the instruments, maybe that's just me.  I wanted to make the PC-Engine version sound smooth, like butter, because when I listen to the SNES track, to my ears anyway, it has a very soft, mellow tone overlaid onto a very deep bass and strong, snarey drum track... that's what I was going for here.

I believe the SNES has a low-pass filter, but I'm unsure, and I know from personal experience that copying waveforms from another system doesn't always yield the best results on the PC engine, it's often a wiser idea to go with different waveforms that sound better than to go with similar waveforms that sound weak...
And well, it's not exactly about sounding more noisy, it's about sounding more powerful, kinda like the SNES...

Also, even if you're not gonna use them on this song, you should definitely check out those wavetables from that thread, maybe use them as a basis for your own custom waves, who knows?

That bassy note is so rough. Despite that, some of your other instruments are spot on. Very impressed. There are some tiny timing issues, however, with one particular note sequence.

What's the time mark?  You have no idea how OCD i am about getting the timing perfect.    Everything *should* be nailed, but give me the time mark of the suspected offending note(s) and i'll check again.

It's at 1:26 on your soundcloud link, that part sounds a little off if you know what I mean...

Got it, and good catch.  Thanks!  There was a funky game of catch up going on there with channel 5 and channel 1 and channel 5 was coming in a little too late.  Will update with a new link soon.  I'm loving the way the E5 is sounding on the organ, btw.  I'll try some more of the waveform packs, but the ones I've been trying out make it sound like an electric organ instead of that more mellow, organic pipe organ, though... i'll keep trying.  I honestly, though, think the E5 might be doing the trick all by itself... sort of gives it that off-tune sound you might expect in an old run down castle.    Anyway, will update later tonight.

[FraGMarE]

Okay, timing fixed at the ~1:26 mark.  Phew.  New track at same link.

See?  That's what I was talking about earlier... this track is nightmare-level intricate.  Far more so than Fighting In The Street or Lightning Strikes Again.

Also added the E5 effect on the organ intro and tweaked a couple other small things.  If anybody finds any other timing errors or anything, speak up.

[ccovell]

What's funny is, I copied the waveforms straight from the SNES channel rips, but I didn't like how noisy and grindy they sounded coming out of the PC-Engine, so i softened them and mellowed them out a little bit.

I'm not a sound or SNES HW expert, but one thing that can't carry over are the overtones/shaping that come from the SNES DSP.  If you copy the overtones as part of the PCE sample waveform, the overtones themselves scale with the note on the PCE, and that's something that doesn't happen on the SNES.

[FraGMarE]

What's funny is, I copied the waveforms straight from the SNES channel rips, but I didn't like how noisy and grindy they sounded coming out of the PC-Engine, so i softened them and mellowed them out a little bit.

I'm not a sound or SNES HW expert, but one thing that can't carry over are the overtones/shaping that come from the SNES DSP.  If you copy the overtones as part of the PCE sample waveform, the overtones themselves scale with the note on the PCE, and that's something that doesn't happen on the SNES.

And I'm not a musician or a chiptuner, which I think may be a large part of the problem here, in the first place lol  ;)

Yea, a lot of the waveforms were clearly corrupted or overlaid with another waveform.  In those cases, I tried to track down the base waveforms by locating portions of the notes that were not corrupted (where possible).  Sometimes I had to just make do with whatever kind of pattern i could see or do a lot of trial and error with the preset waveforms in my collection.  The voice-like orchestral fade-in parts that span from about 0:04 - 0:08, I would love to know how to get that sound more hollow and voice like... and, i dunno, orchestral.

BTW, Michirin, thanks for the link to the waveforms!  I'm sure I will try them all out at some point.  I'm quickly becoming a waveform junkie.  haha

[Michirin9801]

And I'm not a musician or a chiptuner, which I think may be a large part of the problem here, in the first place lol  ;)

BTW, Michirin, thanks for the link to the waveforms!  I'm sure I will try them all out at some point.  I'm quickly becoming a waveform junkie.  haha

You know, I wasn't one either, I was strictly a spriter/2D artist, and I couldn't make music for s***, and I've only been using Deflemask for like, 2 years? It's gonna be 2 years this month, but I have MUCH less patience than you, I didn't read lots of info that would have helped me a whole lot, I took too long to join the Deflemask forum, I was just mashing my head against the keyboard until something nice came out, and I still have a hard time making anything even remotely original (my game project's soundtrack consists of loads of rip-offs of really obscure video game songs, some less unoriginal than others, it doesn't help that the YM2612 isn't nearly as much fun to use than the HuC6280 though...)

And you know, that's the thing, once you start fiddling around with the PCE soundchip you never want to stop because wavetables are SO much more fun to play around with than FM synth or even Samples! You can get something that sounds awesome really quickly, and you're always discovering new interesting sounds you can make, it's amazing!
So keep it up mate, and keep on taking criticism to heart like you're doing because that sure helps improving on the talent that you already have ^^

[esteban]

This track...it got me back here today sooner. I was planning on catching up on the forum tonight, but fragmare's (and P_D's) recent tunes convinced me otherwise.

So, whatever critiques folks may have...I'm glad I saw it in my streaming SoundCloud thingie

[spenoza]

That lower, bassier waveform has GOT to change. It's so rough it hurts. You gotta sacrifice some of the sameness for smoothness there. Everything else is teh awesomes.

[FraGMarE]

That lower, bassier waveform has GOT to change. It's so rough it hurts. You gotta sacrifice some of the sameness for smoothness there. Everything else is teh awesomes.

Wish granted.  Also tweaked some waveforms, fixed a few more minor errors, and remixed the volumes a bit.  The bassline should sound a bit more mellow now.  Original post also updated with new tune.

[Windcharger]

The funny thing is, I actually had plans to cover this song in a few months as one of my next 4 or 5 projects (albeit in Squirrel), but I really *REALLY* like what you've done here.   

Great job frag!

[Michirin9801]

It's good, but I still wish it could be a little better... I don't think I'm in the position to nitpick it any further though, maybe it's just a matter of taste...
Either way, keep it up mate! I'm looking forward to what you have in stock for us ^^

[esteban]

I can dig it.

[spenoza]

That is the best, yet. Great work!

[FraGMarE]

Glad you guys like it a bit better now.  Original post now updated with DMF and HES file.  DMF should now be "Huzak friendly".... Elmer. 

It's good, but I still wish it could be a little better... I don't think I'm in the position to nitpick it any further though, maybe it's just a matter of taste...
Either way, keep it up mate! I'm looking forward to what you have in stock for us ^^

Yea, I know what you mean.  This is one of those iconic and beloved tracks where if something sounds the LEAST bit off, I knew people who grew up hearing this tune throughout their childhood were going to point it out.  You're welcome to download the DMF and try fiddling with it, but I'm about burned out on this track, at this point.  It's a bit like playing whack-a-mole... if you change one thing, you have to change something else, or something, on some other channel, is going to get drowned out... some of the fades and notes are so subtle, in this.

I think, maybe, for my next tune i'm going to go in a COMPLETELY different direction and cover a tune few people probably even know and NOBODY will expect.   It's from one of the greatest arcade vertical shmups ever... and the music is SUPER funky.

I'm going to go straight up Louis Gorenfeld on this one.

People will either be like "I've never heard of that game" or "No... you can't be trying that on the PC-Engine"

Can't eat.  Can't sleep.  Cca.... can't... stop... this......... FEVER!  ;)

[ccovell]

People will either be like "I've never heard of that game" or "No... you can't be trying that on the PC-Engine"

Can't eat.  Can't sleep.  Cca.... can't... stop... this......... FEVER!  ;)

Oh, great!  You're doing Atari's GOTCHA!

[FraGMarE]

YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT!
 

[elmer]

Glad you guys like it a bit better now.  Original post now updated with DMF and HES file.  DMF should now be "Huzak friendly".... Elmer. 

Thanks! 

Here you go ...

http://www.dropbox.com/s/y4fap3jhhdgqr43/Huzak3rdWIP3rdTry-SimonBelmontTheme.pce?dl=0

Please let me know what you think.


I had to remove a couple of stray effects that you'd left in there ...

Converting channel 1 matrix row 23 pattern 23.
Unknown deflemask effect code $21xx, aborting!
Failed to convert DMF pattern data, aborting!

But congratulations, you're the new winner at nearly 9900 bytes of data in the one track!!!

I suspect that's from putting all of those Volume Slides in as manual entries.

It's created a lot of extra Patterns in there.

Unfortunately, the overflow from one bank into the next showed up a bug in PCEAS's bank-overflow logic, so that's something else to find and fix. 

I'll look more into space-optimization again when the whole thing works properly.

P.S. I absolutely love those drums! 

[Michirin9801]

You're welcome to download the DMF and try fiddling with it, but I'm about burned out on this track, at this point.

I took a look at your current DMF file and well, let's just say that there's a lot of waste in the channels... If I were to 'tweak' it, I'd honestly want to remake it from scratch, but this does serve as a plenty good enough basis to help me with that...
That said though I'm not gonna remake it from scratch because I have like, a load of other covers on the back-burner that I haven't posted yet because I wanna post them all in a big bundle if you know what I mean >w>
(Also, if I make a new cover of this song based on yours I feel like I'm cheating >~<'; )

But if you don't mind, I have a few suggestions for your future covers:
- Pick a channel to put all of the least important stuff in it, preferably channels 5 or 6, and stick with it for all of your future songs! I like putting my percussion on channel 6 so I pick channel 5, now what do you do with this channel? You use it as little as possible! Avoid using that channel as much as possible so that it can be cut out to play sound effects with as little loss in the song as possible, while still taking somewhat full advantage of the soundchip! It's important that you pick channel 5 or 6 because those are the only two that play white noise, so they're the best channels for synthesising sound effects that use both waveforms and white noise, always keep that in mind when making songs for the PC engine!
In my case, I mostly use channel 5 for de-tuned delay/reverb effects, so whenever a sound effect needs to be played, the reverb is gone, but the song doesn't lose any detail, but you know, sometimes I'm not even using all of the other 5 channels on the song, in those cases I put the reverb in another channel, leaving channel 5 playing nothing, which leads me to my next suggestion:

- Use as few channels as possible! I've noticed that you often use 2 channels to play the same note without even de-tuning them (or at least not to a noticeable extent) you can easily replace that with just a single channel without any loss in quality or detail... Let me put it this way: Never use 2 channels to play the same note unless you're de-tuning them or doing delay-reverb (or both, btw, it's always a good idea to de-tune your reverb) Even if those channels are playing different instruments, avoid using 2 channels for the same note, you can play the same note of 2 different waveforms on the same channel by simply halving the wave resolution of both waveforms and adding them together, thus making a new waveform, kinda like this:

(In this example I'm taking a sawtooth, halving both its height and length, then repeating the length horizontally, then adding the heights of the two new waveforms together to make an octave saw)

It's always a good idea to free up channels in case you want to play chords or a complex harmonic support, one of the best ways I know to free up a channel is to put the delay/reverb on the same channel as the instrument that's using said delay/reverb, it works best when the instrument that's doing this effect plays a new different note very often, like, every 2 rows, so if you have an instrument playing like that you'll notice that every odd row is empty right? Well, why not fill them up? Here's what I do, I fill every odd row with whatever note played 3 rows before it, only at a lower volume and panned differently, so you'll be adjusting the volume and the pan on that channel constantly, it takes up a lot of memory, but well, memory isn't exactly a problem anymore... I've used this trick prominently on my Fighting Back cover as well as on my Battle Xtasy cover, check'em out:
http://sta.sh/01l3peenzmer
http://sta.sh/01w5meszyjir

Also, don't be afraid to shift an instrument from one channel to another mid-song in order to free up channels to play something else!

- Use the Note Cut (ECxx) effects on the basses, cutting off the bass one tick before the next note gives them a noticeable boost! I've noticed that you're just using Note OFF commands before every bass note, that works too, but you get more control over the Note OFF with the Note Cut effect, they're pretty much the same thing, but with the Note Cut you get to pick in which tick of the current row the Note OFF effect gets triggered...

- You can use NEZplug to rip waveforms from PC engine games! Just go download NEZplug, then go on Zophar domain and download .hes versions of whatever PC engine soundtrack you want (so long as it's not on CD, unfortunately they don't have any CD PSG soundtracks), then you just listen to the songs you want, click the CH button to turn on and off channels, and to rip the instruments you want click the DMP button, then select DEV_HuC6230 (I know it's HuC6280, but it's just numbered wrong in the software) and click on the channel you want to rip, you're gonna get a string of Hex numbers that represent the wavetable currently in-use in that particular channel in the song you're listening to, just convert them all to Decimal and you've got your wavetable! I know you like making your own waves based on the waves of the song you're listening to, but it's a wise idea to use the wavetables from PCE games you like as well!

That's about as much as I can think of right now... Mind you, I'm telling you these things from experience, you've got a lot of talent you know, more than me perhaps, but it just seems like you need a little bit of guidance before you can achieve great heights!
Either way, keep up your great work ^^

[elmer]

But if you don't mind, I have a few suggestions for your future covers:
...

Thanks for the ProTips ... they're fascinating to read. 

I can see you using all of those things that you're talking about in your own tracks ... but OMG, I just don't don't know how you music-loving folks know how to break things down like that. 

My brain just doesn't work that way! 


One thing that I've really noticed in your tracks, is that there's always something going on. They sound very "full" for only 6 channels. That's a absolutely marvelous use of the PSG resources.

What I *think* that I'm missing hearing in Fragmare's Simon Belmont track is a "base/pad" (not a "bass").

Just something that's going on underneath the lead and mid instruments that the rest of the track can be laid on top of.

I listened to the SNES original of the track, and I'm not sure if it really had much of a "base" itself, so I can see why Fragmare didn't want to just go and add one ... but the lack of it is missed on the PCE (to my ears).

While the SNES lead/mids seem fairly sparse by themselves, it's the deep reverb/delay effect that provides that extra bit of background sound to keep the ears happy.

In that case, a extra pad layer would have just muddied-up the track.

Overuse of reverb was pretty much a hallmark for SNES tunes, IIRC. 

... to rip the instruments you want click the DMP button, then select DEV_HuC6230 (I know it's HuC6280, but it's just numbered wrong in the software)

The PCE sound chip circuitry that's been broken out of the HuC6280, and put into its own chip for use in the PC-FX is called the HuC6230. That's probably why they're using that codename.

That's part of the point for writing Huzak.

The PC-FX uses the exact same sound-chip, and we don't have a driver to use there (yet).

Actually ... Arkhan has said a few times that prototypes/develops his games in HuC, and then converts the HuC into assembly-language for speed.

Since the PC-FX has the same VDP, and the same sound-chip as the PCE, I'm curious if it would make a good prototyping platform for PCE/SuperGrafx games. 

[Michirin9801]

I can see you using all of those things that you're talking about in your own tracks ... but OMG, I just don't don't know how you music-loving folks know how to break things down like that. 

My brain just doesn't work that way! 

The same way I don't know how you programming folks wrap your heads around all of that code, to me it's all Greek >w>

But then again, that's why teamwork exists right? The people who are good with art and music will go and do the art and music, meanwhile the people who are good with coding will do their thing and make everything work like it should, and after a whole lot of work, voila! A game is made! (Or something like that)

... to rip the instruments you want click the DMP button, then select DEV_HuC6230 (I know it's HuC6280, but it's just numbered wrong in the software)

The PCE sound chip circuitry that's been broken out of the HuC6280, and put into its own chip for use in the PC-FX is called the HuC6230. That's probably why they're using that codename.

I didn't know that... Well, I can say I've learned something today ^^

[FraGMarE]

You're welcome to download the DMF and try fiddling with it, but I'm about burned out on this track, at this point.

But if you don't mind, I have a few suggestions for your future covers...

Thanks for all the tips/advice!    What's that about the Note OFF command boosting stuff?   This is the first track where I used a lot of Note OFF commands because I figured it was more "proper form" than using the note cut or simply controlling the volume manually (which is how i was doing it before).  So you're saying i should go back to my previous method?  I didn't notice any kind of next-note boost, but I did notice a lot of the HuC6280 popping between notes/waveforms using Note OFF.  I tried to manually envelope some of the OFFs with volume commands to cover up the popping, but I'm not sure it really had much of an effect.  :/

That doubling up the waveforms looks interesting, I'll definitely have to experiment with that!

As for the DMF file being wasteful and unoptimized... yea, i'm guilty lol.  It's not meant for any kind of game or demo, it's just meant to get all the notes and timings matching 100% 1:1 to the original.  Even the 5 channel/LQ-sample versions of the tunes I make are not really optimized in any way.  They're just meant to show how it would sound if they *were* game-optimized.  You'll even notice I never even bothered to deflate some of the effects columns on channels that don't even use them.  I guess my point is, I have zero interest in *actual* optimization of a tune unless I have something, in specific, I'm optimizing it for (like a game project).

As for the same note playing across multiple channels, I know I could consolidate them and bump the volume up a little and it would sound identical... but there's sort of a reason I'm trying so hard to stick closely to the source material.  You see, the reason I'm doing all this isn't SOLELY for making stuff that's pleasant to listen to, though I'm happy you folks think it is.  I'm also striving for ALL of my DMF files to serve as sort of 1:1 HuC6280 note/timing tablature for some of the all time classic video game tunes.  Or at least as close as i can get with the 6 channel versions.  That way, if other chiptuners would like to rearrange the track in Deflemask, they basically have a 1:1 tablature of the source material to work from, right there in front of them.  That's why, when you gave me the timemark of the note error, I was so quick to fix that.  And, also, some of it is to simply satisfy my own curiosity as to what this music would sound like on the PCE if composed the exact same way.  Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment and just like to impose an extra, artificial layer of restrictions upon myself lol 

Like I said, I'm not a chiptuner or a musician.  Never will be.  I'm just some guy who's a perfectionist and has sufficient patience to transcribe these tunes to the HuC6280 like a devout monk.  I almost feel as if it isn't my place, or within my skillset at this point, to start taking any "artistic liberties" with this stuff.  Not yet anyway.

I am, however, a decent pixel artist, and will draw you a mean 9-bit color sprite or background tile.  ;)

[Michirin9801]

Thanks for all the tips/advice!    What's that about the Note OFF command boosting stuff?   This is the first track where I used a lot of Note OFF commands because I figured it was more "proper form" than using the note cut or simply controlling the volume manually (which is how i was doing it before).  So you're saying i should go back to my previous method?  I didn't notice any kind of next-note boost, but I did notice a lot of the HuC6280 popping between notes/waveforms using Note OFF.  I tried to manually envelope some of the OFFs with volume commands to cover up the popping, but I'm not sure it really had much of an effect.  :/

I think you're thinking of a different boost than I am... Here's the thing, the bigger the difference in volume between the end of the last note and the beginning of the next one, the more noticeable the next note is going to be, so when you cut out the bass right before the next note you're getting the most difference in volume it can possibly have, in other words, the bass is going to sound stronger and more noticeable than it would if you didn't cut it out before playing the next note, that said though, it's not gonna magically make it sound like an FM bass or anything...
What you're doing right now with the OFF commands is pretty much that, but the Note Cut effect is pretty much the exact same thing as an OFF command, except you can control in which tick of the row you put it on the effect will actually trigger, so you can cut out the bass the very tick before the next note instead of 2 or 3 ticks before it, so yeah, the Note Cut effect is a better way of doing the same thing...

As for the DMF file being wasteful and unoptimized... yea, i'm guilty lol.  It's not meant for any kind of game or demo, it's just meant to get all the notes and timings matching 100% 1:1 to the original.  Even the 5 channel/LQ-sample versions of the tunes I make are not really optimized in any way.  They're just meant to show how it would sound if they *were* game-optimized.  You'll even notice I never even bothered to deflate some of the effects columns on channels that don't even use them.  I guess my point is, I have zero interest in *actual* optimization of a tune unless I have something, in specific, I'm optimizing it for (like a game project).

As for the same note playing across multiple channels, I know I could consolidate them and bump the volume up a little and it would sound identical... but there's sort of a reason I'm trying so hard to stick closely to the source material.  You see, the reason I'm doing all this isn't SOLELY for making stuff that's pleasant to listen to, though I'm happy you folks think it is.  I'm also striving for ALL of my DMF files to serve as sort of 1:1 HuC6280 note/timing tablature for some of the all time classic video game tunes.  Or at least as close as i can get with the 6 channel versions.  That way, if other chiptuners would like to rearrange the track in Deflemask, they basically have a 1:1 tablature of the source material to work from, right there in front of them.  That's why, when you gave me the timemark of the note error, I was so quick to fix that.  And, also, some of it is to simply satisfy my own curiosity as to what this music would sound like on the PCE if composed the exact same way.  Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment and just like to impose an extra, artificial layer of restrictions upon myself lol 

Yeah I can see where you're coming from, but I still think taking a few liberties here and there and optimising the song would go a long way, not only to make the music sound better, but also to free up a channel or two so that you could squeeze in more details and ♥~sweet sweet reverb~♥ _{(sorry, it's the SNES fangirl in me talking)}

That doubling up the waveforms looks interesting, I'll definitely have to experiment with that!

It's a pretty useful trick to coming up with new instruments!

Like I said, I'm not a chiptuner or a musician.  Never will be.  I'm just some guy who's a perfectionist and has sufficient patience to transcribe these tunes to the HuC6280 like a devout monk.  I almost don't feel as if it isn't my place, or within my skillset at this point, to start taking any "artistic liberties" with this stuff.  Not yet anyway.

I am, however, a decent pixel artist, and will draw you a mean 9-bit color sprite or background tile.  ;)

You know, you're in a very similar position right now that I was 2 years ago, I used to be strictly a 2D artist and spriter, I've been drawing for over 10 years now (100% self-taught) so I do think I have enough experience to call myself a 'decent' artist, however I was in need of a musician to make music for my game project really bad, I asked around everywhere I knew at the time, with no good results, so I had to force myself to get into music even though I knew jacks*** about it, and for a few months I've used a rubbish DAW called Musagi with a Mega Drive VST, and I could make some bleh music with it, but then I started using Deflemask, and it was so much better, I could make music in it a whole lot faster, and with much better results, and not only that, I could also use a soundchip that I desired a whole lot more, which was the PC engine's HuC6280! (Unfortunately my game's still using Mega Drive music, which isn't nearly as much fun to make, and it's too late to change it now for several reasons)
But still, with only 2 years of experience I was able to become pretty okay at covering other people's music (But I'm still terrible at coming up with original stuff)
The point is that making music (with Deflemask at least) isn't just a lot of fun, but it's also a really good learning experience!

[FraGMarE]

Glad you guys like it a bit better now.  Original post now updated with DMF and HES file.  DMF should now be "Huzak friendly".... Elmer. 

Thanks! 

Here you go ...

http://www.dropbox.com/s/y4fap3jhhdgqr43/Huzak3rdWIP3rdTry-SimonBelmontTheme.pce?dl=0

Please let me know what you think.


I had to remove a couple of stray effects that you'd left in there ...

Converting channel 1 matrix row 23 pattern 23.
Unknown deflemask effect code $21xx, aborting!
Failed to convert DMF pattern data, aborting!

But congratulations, you're the new winner at nearly 9900 bytes of data in the one track!!!

I suspect that's from putting all of those Volume Slides in as manual entries.

It's created a lot of extra Patterns in there.

Unfortunately, the overflow from one bank into the next showed up a bug in PCEAS's bank-overflow logic, so that's something else to find and fix. 

I'll look more into space-optimization again when the whole thing works properly.

P.S. I absolutely love those drums! 

Yea, man, the PCE file you sent me sounds identical, as far as i can tell.  That DMF is in NO way optimized, at ALL... so I could probably trim that 9k file size down a bit.

Also, I've just tested the new pre-release of Deflemask and they FIXED the Note > Sample bug on the PCE!  GAME CHANGER! 

Honestly, though, I'm so satisfied with the PSG drums i made for this track, I might just leave it alone. 

And i'm sad to say i don't think i'm going to be able to do the next cover i originally wanted to do.  :/  Apparently, a lot of times on the YMZ280B arcade chip, the composers just compressed streamed everything through one channel, like an MP3... so I have no way of isolating samples or instruments.  and MIDIs for this particular game are non-existent.

[FraGMarE]

Okay, so I couldn't resist.  Here is the version with sampled drums.  To be honest, it doesn't really sound a WHOLE lot different than the PSG drums version...

I only used three samples.  The kick, snare and hihat.  I left the toms PSG, otherwise I'd have to add 3 or 4 new samples just for one small part of the song... and that's just silly.

DMF File Download (SNES Drum Samples)

HES File Download (SNES Drum Samples)

BTW, can anyone tell me why the HES with samples is smaller than the HES without samples?!  O_o

[esteban]

Okay, so I couldn't resist.  Here is the version with sampled drums.  To be honest, it doesn't really sound a WHOLE lot different than the PSG drums version...

I only used three samples.  The kick, snare and hihat.  I left the toms PSG, otherwise I'd have to add 3 or 4 new samples just for one small part of the song... and that's just silly.

I like this and the PSG drums. I will have to listen a few more times to see if I have a preference.

BUT MOAR CASTLEVANIA.

[Michirin9801]

The samples are a little more pleasing to my ears, but yeah, not that big of a difference from the PSG

BTW, can anyone tell me why the HES with samples is smaller than the HES without samples?!  O_o

Because Deflemask's .hes export sucks >w>

[esteban]

UPDATE: After a day of listening to these two tracks... I HAVE NO PREFERENCE.

But, PSG wins, by default.

I will admit that I love the original SNES/SFC version in all its glory, though. But that goes without saying.

[Digi.k]

UPDATE: After a day of listening to these two tracks... I HAVE NO PREFERENCE.

But, PSG wins, by default.

I will admit that I love the original SNES/SFC version in all its glory, though. But that goes without saying.

I feel the samples makes it sound a little more authentic to the original.  Great work Fragmare may you keep enjoying what you do!

[FraGMarE]

Decided to totally redo this track as well.  Should sound quite a bit better now.  All percussion is now PSG, no samples.  The PSG kickbass has some really nice WOMP WOMP now.

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/super-castlevania-iv-theme-of-simon-belmont-turbografx-16pc-engine-cover}

[esteban]

Decided to totally redo this track as well.  Should sound quite a bit better now.  All percussion is now PSG, no samples.  The PSG kickbass has some really nice WOMP WOMP now.

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/super-castlevania-iv-theme-of-simon-belmont-turbografx-16pc-engine-cover}

I approve.

So clean.

Not dirty.

[roflmao]

Sounds great!

[Michirin9801]

Decided to totally redo this track as well.  Should sound quite a bit better now.  All percussion is now PSG, no samples.  The PSG kickbass has some really nice WOMP WOMP now.

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/super-castlevania-iv-theme-of-simon-belmont-turbografx-16pc-engine-cover}

Oh yeah! Now THAT's more like it ;3
The waveforms you've used are much better! Now I have nothing to complain about, great job ^^
Good job on the PSG drums too!

[FraGMarE]

Decided to totally redo this track as well.  Should sound quite a bit better now.  All percussion is now PSG, no samples.  The PSG kickbass has some really nice WOMP WOMP now.

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/super-castlevania-iv-theme-of-simon-belmont-turbografx-16pc-engine-cover}

I approve.

So clean.

Not dirty.

Sounds great!

Decided to totally redo this track as well.  Should sound quite a bit better now.  All percussion is now PSG, no samples.  The PSG kickbass has some really nice WOMP WOMP now.

^{♫ https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/super-castlevania-iv-theme-of-simon-belmont-turbografx-16pc-engine-cover}

Oh yeah! Now THAT's more like it ;3
The waveforms you've used are much better! Now I have nothing to complain about, great job ^^
Good job on the PSG drums too!

Thanks, I'm glad you all like this one better.  I did a LOT of work on the waveforms, volume enveloping and the PSG percussion.  I could have thrown some samples in there, and they probably would have sounded good too, but I wanted to challenge myself and try to perfect the PSG percussion a bit.  At least to a point where I felt like samples were pointless to add.

[bonq]

Sound on that track is spot on.

Totally Love it and a half!

-bonq