Emulation accuracy: which software to use?

spenoza · 05/09/2017, 11:56 AM

Almost all of us have at least 1 way to play most PCE games on original hardware, but that doesn't mean emulation isn't still useful. So maybe it's time we collected our observations about the accuracy of various emulators and helped flesh out which ones are the most useful. My thoughts are below. I have not tested rigorously at all, so these are rather generalized. If you have more specific information, I would love to make a list that reflects communal knowledge instead of my own (mis?)perceptions.

I know Mednafen has the greatest accuracy, but it is the least friendly to use, and many won't touch it because of the command line.

I'm a big fan of Ootake. It's free and open source and is pretty accurate, though certainly not perfect.

I do not like Magic Engine, because not only is it closed source, the author charges money, and of the current, still-maintained emulators it has slightly lower accuracy than Ootake. It seems silly to charge money for an emulator that can't best the current free options.

BizHawk is the emulator I'm watching for the future. It uses the Mednafen core for PCE emulation, though it does sometimes pick up bugs not present in Mednafen due to it being designed specifically for the TAS crowd. The developers are pretty good about squashing bugs as they come up, though.

GohanX · 05/09/2017, 12:29 PM

The emulator on Retropie seems to work really well, it's based on Mednafan with the SGX compatibility removed.

NecroPhile · 05/09/2017, 12:51 PM

If I'm emulatin' to get some screen shots or whatever, I use Magic Engine. It's accurate enough for me, and it's so easy to use.

If I'm test driving homebrew or translation patches, I'll use mednafen. It might not be all that user friendly, but accuracy is all that matters at that point.

Vimtoman · 05/09/2017, 01:14 PM

Try retroarch on the PSVIta It plays and looks great on the OLED screen.
CD's and Hucard's.

CrackTiger · 05/09/2017, 01:50 PM

There is a nice GUI for PC Mednafen and there is also the unofficial/stolen PCE.emu for Android.

Magic Engine is free to use for a certain period before you need to press a couple keys to save and load a state.

I haven't tried Ootake in years, but last time I did it was gaijin and user-unfriendly.

spenoza · 05/09/2017, 02:22 PM

Quote from: Vimtoman on 05/09/2017, 01:14 PMTry retroarch on the PSVIta It plays and looks great on the OLED screen.
CD's and Hucards.

Why did you use an apostrophe for CDs? Apostrophes are for possessive, not for plural.

roflmao · 05/09/2017, 02:52 PM

On the PC I generally stick to Ootake.

But I built a little Raspberry Pi3 RetroPie thingy and that uses RetroArch, I think. It's pretty slick!

elmer · 05/09/2017, 03:10 PM

Quote from: NecroPhile on 05/09/2017, 12:51 PMIf I'm test driving homebrew or translation patches, I'll use mednafen. It might not be all that user friendly, but accuracy is all that matters at that point.

Yep, Mednafen is definitely my preferred emulator.

If you really need them, there are a couple of GUI front ends for it ... but you can just drag-n-drop a .PCE (or .CUE) file onto Mednafen in explorer and it will run it, which isn't exactly hard.

Or you could just set up your Windows file associations to make it a simple double-click to run a ROM.

Yeah ... I know, people don't want to do that sort of stuff ... but the emulation-quality is worth it (IMHO).

Ootake has a couple of inaccuracies in the audio levels ... at least the version that DefleMask uses internally does, so I find that emulator hard to recommend.

CrackTiger · 05/09/2017, 03:13 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/09/2017, 02:22 PM
Quote from: Vimtoman on 05/09/2017, 01:14 PMTry retroarch on the PSVIta It plays and looks great on the OLED screen.
CD's and Hucards.
Why did you use an apostrophe for CDs? Apostrophes are for possessive, not for plural.

Why did you write "1" instead of "one"? Numbers smaller than 10 are written.

esteban · 05/09/2017, 04:26 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/09/2017, 02:22 PM
Quote from: Vimtoman on 05/09/2017, 01:14 PMTry retroarch on the PSVIta It plays and looks great on the OLED screen.
CD's and Hucards.
Why did you use an apostrophe for CDs? Apostrophes are for possessive, not for plural.

No, you can use apostrophes, too.

1980's *or* 1980s
VCR's *or* VCRs

Plural, motherf*cker. With apostrophes.

F*ck yes.

PukeSter · 05/09/2017, 04:28 PM

I use Mednafen, but it's via a core on OpenEmu (Mac only), which has an extremely good interface (drag and drop roms)

SignOfZeta · 05/09/2017, 04:53 PM

I use Mednafen for Wii. Although I'll never figure out how to run CDs in it the HuCARD emulation is good enough that I can't think of anything to complain about.

NecroPhile · 05/09/2017, 05:08 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/09/2017, 02:22 PMWhy did you use an apostrophe for CDs? Apostrophes are for possessive, not for plural.

He's trying to use 'em all up so they don't get left behind on Ys.

esteban · 05/09/2017, 05:16 PM

Quote from: NecroPhile on 05/09/2017, 05:08 PM
Quote from: guest on 05/09/2017, 02:22 PMWhy did you use an apostrophe for CDs? Apostrophes are for possessive, not for plural.
He's trying to use 'em all up so they don't get left behind on Ys.

+10 points

LowRes · 05/09/2017, 08:20 PM

PCE.EMU for Android is pretty good. I use it on the nvidia shield TV with a dual shock 3 controller. Mostly use it to try out CD games before I buy but I think it's pretty accurate emulation.

spenoza · 05/09/2017, 08:53 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 05/09/2017, 03:13 PM
Quote from: guest on 05/09/2017, 02:22 PMWhy did you use an apostrophe for CDs? Apostrophes are for possessive, not for plural.
Why did you write "1" instead of "one"? Numbers smaller than 10 are written.

Because I'm not writing a research paper. Also, apostrophe misuse is a major pet peeve.

Quote from: esteban on 05/09/2017, 04:26 PMNo, you can use apostrophes, too.

1980's *or* 1980s
VCR's *or* VCRs

Said no style guide ever. I like you, but you, sir, are no style guide. Unless you're talking about clothing. Then you are probably a great style guide.

Keith Courage · 05/10/2017, 02:16 AM

Ootake and magic engine are great for the PC. However, if you want to play on a CRT TV as to keep it feeling original then a softmodded xbox with mednafen is fantastic.

ClodBusted · 05/10/2017, 02:37 AM

I like Ootake, but then it is the only PCE emulator I've tried so far. Was this the one that refused to read CD images and insisted on having CD-ROMs being read from a physical drive?

Regarding silly use of punctuation marks, that's what is called the "idiot's apostrophe" in Germany. Since for German, there's no apostrophe even for possesives. Here are some examples that would make every German language teacher's skin crawl:

Some even confuse the apostrophe with French accents grave and acute, creating a crazy spacing between letters. D'oh!

gheebee · 05/10/2017, 09:22 AM

Quote from: guest on 05/10/2017, 02:37 AMI like Ootake, but then it is the only PCE emulator I've tried so far. Was this the one that refused to read CD images and insisted on having CD-ROMs being read from a physical drive?

Pretty sure that's MagicEngine, I remember reading something from the person that made it saying that they had no interest in giving it the capability to read disc images. You can still use images with it though, all you have to do is mount them to a virtual drive with something like Virtual CloneDrive and MagicEngine won't know the difference; discs probably load faster that way too.

spenoza · 05/10/2017, 10:02 AM

I know Ootake can cache data from CDs to speed things up a bit. Maybe accuracy isn't the most important issue for most users, then. I guess maybe that sweet spot of accuracy, ease of use, and cost.

Mednafen · 05/10/2017, 10:03 AM

Quote from: guest on 05/09/2017, 11:56 AMBizHawk is the emulator I'm watching for the future. It uses the Mednafen core for PCE emulation

It does not.

Michirin9801 · 05/10/2017, 10:33 AM

When I'm just casually playing PCE on the PC I use Ootake for the CD-ROM games and Magic Engine for the HuCard games, I know Magic Engine is by far the worst in terms of accuracy, and being paid doesn't help it either, but it feels so good to use! I like emulators that let me do CRT-esque filters, in Magic Engine I can use bilinear filtering + 50% opacity scanlines and it looks pretty good, I'd use it for CD games as well but it can't load disc images, but Ootake is good enough for that, and the CD install option is nice because I don't have to keep mounting the CD image with Daemon Tools every time I wanna play Asuka 120%...
It doesn't have much in terms of filters though, a 4:3 stretch and 50% scanlines are as close as I can get to a CRT look...

I only really use Mednafen to test the Huzak updates elmer sends me... On the PC at least, because WiiMednafen is by far the best emulator on that system, it's exponentially more user-friendly than its PC counterpart, even if playing CDs in it isn't the easiest thing, but it works! Although I mostly just play the Virtual Console releases of CD games if I'm gonna play them, that's much easier, and well, I can get some .wad files with injected CD-ROM images and play CD games that weren't released on the VC such as Asuka 120%, Ys 3 and the Ys 4 fan-translation for example...

One last emulator I also use is NitroGrafx for the DS, but that one is only for when I'm out and about and really desperate to play some PCE (which happens more often than I like), it works with both HuCard and CD games, but the DS's resolution is lower than the PCE so some detail is lost, and if I'm not mistaken, it's using the GB/GBC's DAC emulation built into the DS to do make-shift PCE sound, it works, but the waveforms have their vertical resolution halved (read: there's a loss in sound quality), the volume control is lowered from 32 levels to only 4 levels, so any semblance of attack or decay in the soundtracks are lost, it can't play frequencies as high as the PCE, so a lot of the higher-pitched notes are lost, and it doesn't play any samples, so the drums and voices in a whole bunch of games are missing... Oh and, the CD audio is too quiet...

It's still worth it if you only have a DS or 3DS (like me) with a DS flash cart and REALLY wanna play some Street Fighter 2' Champion Edition or Detana! Twinbee on-the-go, but if you have any other means to play PCE on the go (unless it's PCEadvance) you're better off not bothering with this one...
I'll just patiently wait until someone decides to make a PCE emulator for the 3DS, hopefully 3DSMednafen...

spenoza · 05/10/2017, 10:53 AM

Quote from: Mednafen on 05/10/2017, 10:03 AM
Quote from: guest on 05/09/2017, 11:56 AMBizHawk is the emulator I'm watching for the future. It uses the Mednafen core for PCE emulation
It does not.

Oh, I thought it was a natural evolution of mednafen-rr and PCEjin. Do you happen to know what core they are using?

Mednafen · 05/10/2017, 11:05 AM

Quote from: guest on 05/10/2017, 10:53 AMOh, I thought it was a natural evolution of mednafen-rr and PCEjin. Do you happen to know what core they are using?

AFAIK, it's original.

spenoza · 05/10/2017, 11:38 AM

Yeah, some of their documentation suggests that. I'll need to look more closely. They claim better accuracy than mednafen and PCEjin, but I don't know how sure I am of that.

geise · 05/10/2017, 01:08 PM

Best way to test accuracy is to load up Popful Mail in every emulator. Ootake uses a hack I believe to fix the graphics glitches in the intro cut-scene. Magic Engine has the graphics issues. Not sure how mednafen handles it. Temper by Exophase from the GP2X / Wiz days was able to get it to work and runs anything flawlessly from what I tested, but that will not really help anyone these days. It was an emulator built from the ground up as well.

Gredler · 05/10/2017, 04:14 PM

Maybe should I make a seperate thread for this, but I've recently often thought of how fun it'd be to play some online matches and coop of PCE games with some of you all; is that something that is a decently working feature in any of these emulators?

imparanoic · 05/10/2017, 10:21 PM

Quote from: Vimtoman on 05/09/2017, 01:14 PMTry retroarch on the PSVIta It plays and looks great on the OLED screen.
CD's and Hucards.

retroarch playstation (vita) tv also works, uses ps3 or ps4 dual shock controller, hdmi

however, i can't cdrom games working though

zetastrike · 05/11/2017, 05:24 AM

I used to use mednafen, but the drag and drop and lack of any built in GUI made me not use it very often. I tried setting up an emulator for my PSP, but it needed too much tinkering to get games to work and some wouldn't run correctly no matter what I did.

Gentlegamer · 05/11/2017, 08:54 AM

Quote from: guest on 05/10/2017, 02:37 AMI like Ootake, but then it is the only PCE emulator I've tried so far. Was this the one that refused to read CD images and insisted on having CD-ROMs being read from a physical drive?

I use Ootake, and yes, you have to at least mount the CD image on a virtual drive first, but then Ootake has the option to import the image so that you don't need to have it mounted.

seieienbu · 05/12/2017, 02:02 AM

I've been using Magicengine since I bought the key years ago. I've never had any problems or complaints.

Vimtoman · 05/12/2017, 02:45 AM

Quote from: imparanoic on 05/10/2017, 10:21 PM
Quote from: Vimtoman on 05/09/2017, 01:14 PMTry retroarch on the PSVIta It plays and looks great on the OLED screen.
CD's and Hucards.
retroarch playstation (vita) tv also works, uses ps3 or ps4 dual shock controller, hdmi

however, i can't cdrom games working though

Make sure you have the syscard in retroarchs system folder.

spenoza · 05/12/2017, 04:03 PM

Well, if I were to explore compatibility by testing a few titles and looking for anomalies, what would be the best games to test across emulators to determine accuracy, and what things should I be looking for?

esteban · 05/12/2017, 05:32 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/12/2017, 04:03 PMWell, if I were to explore compatibility by testing a few titles and looking for anomalies, what would be the best games to test across emulators to determine accuracy, and what things should I be looking for?

Ballistix.
Mahjong.
Super Mahjong.
Sexy Mahjong.
Mahjong Quest.
Mahjong Sword.
Shanghai.
Fire Pro Wrestling.

NecroPhile · 05/12/2017, 06:14 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/12/2017, 04:03 PMWell, if I were to explore compatibility by testing a few titles and looking for anomalies, what would be the best games to test across emulators to determine accuracy, and what things should I be looking for?

Hatris.

There's probably nothing exciting to look for for accuracy. I just wanna trick peeps into playing it.

ccovell · 05/14/2017, 08:35 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/12/2017, 04:03 PMWell, if I were to explore compatibility by testing a few titles and looking for anomalies, what would be the best games to test across emulators to determine accuracy, and what things should I be looking for?

Fighting Run, for using the 4-colour sprite mode of the PCE in-game. Perhaps some PCE emulators don't emulate that.
TV Sports Basketball, Art of Fighting ACD, for having high-res modes and switching resolutions mid-frame, respectively.
Jinmu Denshou, for changing the screen height on the title screen, causing some dumb emus to resize their windows non-stop in windowed mode.
Yo! Bro, for having a nice, wide screen that some emulators may cut off.

Any others?