Will there ever be a TG16 price crash?

[NoSexGex]

If there is a video game market crash in the future, Turbo/PCe will be one of the last pillarsto fall, next to Neo Geo.

Interesting perspective, I've never looked at it that way before. Makes sense!
As a lot of people who own games for NeoGeo, PCE and TG16 are in this for the long haul. But looking at other consoles like NES, SNES and N64. The majority of people owning these games are collectors that seem unstable with what they call "assets".
So yeah, we would be one of the last markets to crash. Which is because we're in one of the most dedicated gaming communities. Which is awesome! But bad if you're hoping for a price crash (reference my pic a few pages back)

[Winniez]

I think games from NES era to end of 16-bit era have certain timeless quality to them. Something that Atari 2600 never quite managed and the collecting scene was driven almost purely by nostalgia.
NES, Megadrive, SNES, PCE games are great on their own right and are still fun to play to this day, even for modern teenagers. And they are part of our collective pop culture in the same vain as iconic comic books or Elvis Presley. If I would be a present day teenager and would constantly hear references to these iconic games I would surely like to find out more and try them, just like wanting to watch classic movies to understand where the fundamentals came from.
TG16/PCE is ofcourse nowhere near as iconic as the NES but many of the same principles apply.

[Winniez]

And I think its also worth remembering that many of the collecting busts (like sport cards or comic books) never affected the value of the original scarce article. Although games are slightly different in a sense that their survivol rate is pretty high, maybe the cardboard boxes would be a better analogue considering the scarcity and their original throw away status.

[Gypsy]

I think games from NES era to end of 16-bit era have certain timeless quality to them. Something that Atari 2600 never quite managed and the collecting scene was driven almost purely by nostalgia.
NES, Megadrive, SNES, PCE games are great on their own right and are still fun to play to this day, even for modern teenagers. And they are part of our collective pop culture in the same vain as iconic comic books or Elvis Presley. If I would be a present day teenager and would constantly hear references to these iconic games I would surely like to find out more and try them, just like wanting to watch classic movies to understand where the fundamentals came from.
TG16/PCE is ofcourse nowhere near as iconic as the NES but many of the same principles apply.

I can definitely agree with this. I'm not big on the NES but games of this era are definitely timeless imo. Games like Rondo are just as great today as back when they were new.

[SignOfZeta]

The closest analog to TG outer boxes was the long box phase of CD (also exclusively American, AFAIK) and not even people with pins on their hats colect that shit so I've just decided that most game collectors are aesthetically retarded clods who collect whatever makes sense to collect based on their bankrupt hollow existence and almost total lack of knowledge of science history or art.

Something I've discussed with friends before...game collectors really don't seem to understand WTF it is they even collect. Whereas fans of cars or records or books or synthesizers tend to have extremely broad knowledge of what they are obsessed over, video game collectors are so damned dumb they think bootlegs are worth money...

[Arkhan Asylum]

I hope so and I hope everyone who "invested" becomes a homeless piece of shit.

[Winniez]

The closest analog to TG outer boxes was the long box phase of CD (also exclusively American, AFAIK) and not even people with pins on their hats colect that shit so I've just decided that most game collectors are aesthetically retarded clods who collect whatever makes sense to collect based on their bankrupt hollow existence and almost total lack of knowledge of science history or art.

Something I've discussed with friends before...game collectors really don't seem to understand WTF it is they even collect. Whereas fans of cars or records or books or synthesizers tend to have extremely broad knowledge of what they are obsessed over, video game collectors are so damned dumb they think bootlegs are worth money...

Weren't the long boxes specific to a console though? I mean you could swap the inserts between the games.  If you wanna see utterly useless game cases have a butchers at the European Saturn cases. I mean it takes some serious effort to design a case that bad.

[SignOfZeta]

The TG16 is the only system I know of with long boxes, and they are only "long" by a couple of cm making them %100 pointless. CD long boxes at least were designed to make CDs as tall as a record so stores wouldn't have to buy new racks.

Of course it only worked so well, mainly because a longbox is twice the volume of a regular CD case and four times as big as a record so you suddenly had less room in your store for a format that supposedly saved space.

Btw, IMO Euro DC cases are even worse than the Saturn ones.

[Gypsy]

The TG16 is the only system I know of with long boxes, and they are only "long" by a couple of cm making them %100 pointless. CD long boxes at least were designed to make CDs as tall as a record so stores wouldn't have to buy new racks.

Of course it only worked so well, mainly because a longbox is twice the volume of a regular CD case and four times as big as a record so you suddenly had less room in your store for a format that supposedly saved space.

Btw, IMO Euro DC cases are even worse than the Saturn ones.

These things are the worst and I have entirely too many of them.

[Winniez]

Ah, ok. I ment the US SEGA CD and Saturn, those tall jewel cases.

[Winniez]

The EURO DC cases are indeed bad but atleast they are interchangeable. The Saturn cases are a unholy mixture of cheap cardboard and bad jewel case design.

[Gypsy]

The EURO DC cases are indeed bad but atleast they are interchangeable. The Saturn cases are a unholy mixture of cheap cardboard and bad jewel case design.

The only good Saturn cases are the Japanese ones for sure.

[Winniez]

Indeed, it seems that Japan got it right instantly. Normal jewel cases, good design, compact and no need to do anything else. In the West however it seems that CD games had to look bigger and more impressive on the shelves, hence all the funky cases.

[Gypsy]

Indeed, it seems that Japan got it right instantly. Normal jewel cases, good design, compact and no need to do anything else. In the West however it seems that CD games had to look bigger and more impressive on the shelves, hence all the funky cases.

Yeah America likes things BIGGER or something. Just look at the Turbografx lol.

I avoid buying the US version of Saturn games when I can, even cheapies, if I can play the Japanese version that's what I get. So much easier to store and not damage.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The TG16 is the only system I know of with long boxes, and they are only "long" by a couple of cm making them %100 pointless. CD long boxes at least were designed to make CDs as tall as a record so stores wouldn't have to buy new racks.

Of course it only worked so well, mainly because a longbox is twice the volume of a regular CD case and four times as big as a record so you suddenly had less room in your store for a format that supposedly saved space.

Btw, IMO Euro DC cases are even worse than the Saturn ones.

The only longboxes I like to buy sometimes are the PSX game longboxes wtih the cardboard/plastic, and it's purely because of how goddamn stupid they are, and that it reminds me of how stupid they were and how we laughed at them when they came out.

I have maybe 4 games in those cases.



I routinely bitch at them when I realize they are fucking my shelf space up.

[SignOfZeta]

That's not what a longbox is. A longbox is when you have a perfectly suitable jewel case, done and dusted, and then you go and put all that into another box, just because.

The dumb tall cases that originated with Sega CD and lasted all the way through US Saturn and a large part of US PS weren't long boxes. They aren't boxes of any kind, they are shitty jewel cases. The Sony ones, honeslty, being way nicer than the Sega ones, which basically shatter on sight. My favorite is Panzer Dragoon Saga, which has three of its four CDs in paper envelopes banging around in the box because that giant ass case can't hold more than 1CD, despite being twice as big as a standard 4xCD audio CD case (which is what the JP version came in).

American audio CDs from major labels from the beginning up until about 1990 had long boxes (mostly hollow) to make the CD packaging 12" high. It's mostly hollow since CD cases are less than 6".

Turbo games have a "longbox" that isn't even long. Doesn't help it fit into special shelving. Doesn't increase visibility (which is why Sega and Sony did what they did). Doesn't even have extra info on it or anything TOTALLY POINTLESS.

[Winniez]

Ah, interesting. I didn't know that. Like I said by longbox I just ment those tall jewel cases, just used a wrong terminology.
And yeah, I have the japanese Panzer Dragoon Saga and it does indeed have that standard double CD case.

[StarDust4Ever]

The TG16 is the only system I know of with long boxes, and they are only "long" by a couple of cm making them %100 pointless. CD long boxes at least were designed to make CDs as tall as a record so stores wouldn't have to buy new racks.

Of course it only worked so well, mainly because a longbox is twice the volume of a regular CD case and four times as big as a record so you suddenly had less room in your store for a format that supposedly saved space.

Btw, IMO Euro DC cases are even worse than the Saturn ones.

Could somebody point to an example of the CD "long box?" I have never heard of these. Sams Club comes to mind as they used to do extra long paper cases for DVD movies as a type of theft deterrence, which I believe were only exclusive to their stores.

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longbox

[esteban]

The TG16 is the only system I know of with long boxes, and they are only "long" by a couple of cm making them %100 pointless. CD long boxes at least were designed to make CDs as tall as a record so stores wouldn't have to buy new racks.

Of course it only worked so well, mainly because a longbox is twice the volume of a regular CD case and four times as big as a record so you suddenly had less room in your store for a format that supposedly saved space.

Btw, IMO Euro DC cases are even worse than the Saturn ones.

Could somebody point to an example of the CD "long box?" I have never heard of these. Sams Club comes to mind as they used to do extra long paper cases for DVD movies as a type of theft deterrence, which I believe were only exclusive to their stores.

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longbox

Yes, generic cardboard longboxes were used at Costco/Sams Club/etc. for many, many years...after 99% of retailers stopped bothering (or switched to plastic reusable anti-theft devices).

Longboxes were very common during the first few years of retail CD sales. I bought my first CD player in 1985-86 and even MAIL ORDER CDs arrived in longboxes (Kraftwerk's Autobahn or Electric Cafe, for example...I ordered that via mail order because many local stores had very limited CD selection in first few years).

It was just "normal" to see hundreds of shrinkwrapped longboxes at a store ....now, what Zeta forgot is that some longboxes actually had some artwork/design on them (an "extension" of the Cd/album art, but never anything that you would be upset at losing), but that specialized art/design/packaging quickly faded away (production costs, I reckon) in favor of generic  long boxes.

Then, later, as an anti-theft measure, stores just started using plastic security cases that were essentially the same size ( a little bigger) than the CD longboxes...

It was my understanding that longboxes helped with transition from records--> CDs...customer could flip through CDs in same manner, at the same shelves...

I haven't googled any images yet, but it would be fun to see *creative kool* longbox art vs. *lame* "why bother?" design....I am pretty sure that often a record label logo would be on a longbox (no art/design unique to the album itself).

[esteban]

^ I never had that album, surprisingly!

Here is Electric Cafe (I don't even remember this):

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, I was going to mention that some longboxes had more art than the standard jewel case but in every case I can recall it's the same art used for the LP and the CD itself just layed out for a vertical format. Whereas many times obi on Japanese releases would have on them something, a little blurb or ads for other releases, I can't think of any longboxes that did...you know, actuality use the thing in an interesting way.

The early Warner issues of New Order's Substance 1987 (a 2CD set) actually mostly filled up the longbox. Each CD was in its own jewel case, one at the top, one at the bottom. Later issues switched to a standard double case.

[esteban]

Yeah, I was going to mention that some longboxes had more art than the standard jewel case but in every case I can recall it's the same art used for the LP and the CD itself just layed out for a vertical format. Whereas many times obi on Japanese releases would have on them something, a little blurb or ads for other releases, I can't think of any longboxes that did...you know, actuality use the thing in an interesting way.

The early Warner issues of New Order's Substance 1987 (a 2CD set) actually mostly filled up the longbox. Each CD was in its own jewel case, one at the top, one at the bottom. Later issues switched to a standard double case.

Ha, I had some bootleg New Order Substance Remixes (not too great) and it came in two separate jewel boxes (I think I bought them at separate times, too)...it never occurred to me that it might have actually been an "homage" to the original CD release....

[TheClash603]

I got my first CD player in 1992 and I did a bunch of CD shopping after that.  My only value in this discussion is to confirm by 1992 long boxes were a thing of the past.

[SignOfZeta]

If your record store never had anything more than two years old in it, sure. That's a pretty shitty store though.

[Winniez]

For me the CD longbox was unknown aswell.  I would imagine we had them in Europe aswell but not sure, I'm really not that familiar with record formats.
In defence of the PAL DC cases - as bad as they are - atleast they served a purpose (like the CD longboxes I suppose), their thickness allowed them to house a large instruction manual in several European languages. I think the original PAL DS cases were made thick for the same reason.

[Gypsy]

For me the CD longbox was unknown aswell.  I would imagine we had them in Europe aswell but not sure, I'm really not that familiar with record formats.
In defence of the PAL DC cases - as bad as they are - atleast they served a purpose (like the CD longboxes I suppose), their thickness allowed them to house a large instruction manual in several European languages. I think the original PAL DS cases were made thick for the same reason.

In some cases two really thick manuals. I know the copies of Shenmue I/II I have are dual manual.

[Winniez]

Ah, really. I don't have any SEGA PAL games anymore.
Isn't there anything good about PAL games (besides nostalgia for some) often most expensive, crippled with 50hz/bars and crappy cases.

[Gypsy]

I have the Shenmues so I didn't have to play Shenmue II with the horrible English dub. The first Shenmue I grabbed for $8 so I figured what the hell, it's easier than screwing with my VMU to use clear data for the second game.

I think all my other EU DC games were $10 or less each. Some hilarious appreciated in value like Evil Twin of which my old copy resides now with xelementx.

DC is the only system I have EU games for oddly enough, though Sega Ages tempts me due to the much cheaper price than the US release.

[Winniez]

I have the Shenmues so I didn't have to play Shenmue II with the horrible English dub. The first Shenmue I grabbed for $8 so I figured what the hell, it's easier than screwing with my VMU to use clear data for the second game.

I think all my other EU DC games were $10 or less each. Some hilarious appreciated in value like Evil Twin of which my old copy resides now with xelementx.

DC is the only system I have EU games for oddly enough, though Sega Ages tempts me due to the much cheaper price than the US release.

I think DC was ahead of its time in a sense that it offered many games in PAL60, makes it way better for you guys in the US aswell.

[Arkhan Asylum]

That's not what a longbox is. A longbox is when you have a perfectly suitable jewel case, done and dusted, and then you go and put all that into another box, just because.

The dumb tall cases that originated with Sega CD and lasted all the way through US Saturn and a large part of US PS weren't long boxes. They aren't boxes of any kind, they are shitty jewel cases. The Sony ones, honeslty, being way nicer than the Sega ones, which basically shatter on sight. My favorite is Panzer Dragoon Saga, which has three of its four CDs in paper envelopes banging around in the box because that giant ass case can't hold more than 1CD, despite being twice as big as a standard 4xCD audio CD case (which is what the JP version came in).

American audio CDs from major labels from the beginning up until about 1990 had long boxes (mostly hollow) to make the CD packaging 12" high. It's mostly hollow since CD cases are less than 6".

Turbo games have a "longbox" that isn't even long. Doesn't help it fit into special shelving. Doesn't increase visibility (which is why Sega and Sony did what they did). Doesn't even have extra info on it or anything TOTALLY POINTLESS.

OH you mean THOSE things.   Now I remember those.  Yeah those were dumb.   

I associate anything that's bigger than a jewel case with "dumb idea", unless the box has extra stuff in it and is clearly a special version.

Even those CDs that came in a cardboard sleeve and had NOTHING EXTRA were stupid.  A few of those amounts to one whole jewel case, and that mattered to me when I was shoving stuff on a CD rack.

... and those didn't even fit on the CD racks with the divider grooves.

[SignOfZeta]

I have the Shenmues so I didn't have to play Shenmue II with the horrible English dub. The first Shenmue I grabbed for $8 so I figured what the hell, it's easier than screwing with my VMU to use clear data for the second game.

I think all my other EU DC games were $10 or less each. Some hilarious appreciated in value like Evil Twin of which my old copy resides now with xelementx.

DC is the only system I have EU games for oddly enough, though Sega Ages tempts me due to the much cheaper price than the US release.

I think DC was ahead of its time in a sense that it offered many games in PAL60, makes it way better for you guys in the US aswell.

Who needs PAL60 when you have 640x480 RGB?

[Medic_wheat]

Didn't feel like thinking more then two seconds.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/201918923992

Never knew of this it just piped up in my eBay feed. Apart from the price it honestly interests me. But then there the price.

[Mathius]

Didn't feel like thinking more then two seconds.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/201918923992

Never knew of this it just piped up in my eBay feed. Apart from the price it honestly interests me. But then there the price.

The ultimate unobtainable. Though not worth the money IMO.

[Gypsy]

Didn't feel like thinking more then two seconds.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/201918923992

Never knew of this it just piped up in my eBay feed. Apart from the price it honestly interests me. But then there the price.

The ultimate unobtainable. Though not worth the money IMO.

Very much agree. I could easily purchase that listing, but why? Many other things are a much better use of those funds.

[Medic_wheat]

Didn't feel like thinking more then two seconds.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/201918923992

Never knew of this it just piped up in my eBay feed. Apart from the price it honestly interests me. But then there the price.

The ultimate unobtainable. Though not worth the money IMO.

Very much agree. I could easily purchase that listing, but why? Many other things are a much better use of those funds.

Like a new water heater?  lol that's what I did. That and paying the IRS $1,500 because they didn't take enough taxes last year from me.

[TheClash603]

If your record store never had anything more than two years old in it, sure. That's a pretty shitty store though.

When I got my first CD player I lived in a rural area, my record store was Ames and they had about 100 cds and they were all top 40 + country.  I actually recall buying a lot of CDs from catalogs.

Rural life sucked, I did it for a few years of my childhood.  Related to that is my love of video games, cause what the fuck else was there to do?

[Arkhan Asylum]

If your record store never had anything more than two years old in it, sure. That's a pretty shitty store though.

When I got my first CD player I lived in a rural area, my record store was Ames and they had about 100 cds and they were all top 40 + country.  I actually recall buying a lot of CDs from catalogs.

Rural life sucked, I did it for a few years of my childhood.  Related to that is my love of video games, cause what the fuck else was there to do?

ColumbiaHouse!
YEAHHAAAAAA

[Mas]

It's been a long time since I have posted anything but man looking at eBay prices today man am I glad I have an everdrive.

[Mathius]

If your record store never had anything more than two years old in it, sure. That's a pretty shitty store though.

When I got my first CD player I lived in a rural area, my record store was Ames and they had about 100 cds and they were all top 40 + country.  I actually recall buying a lot of CDs from catalogs.

Rural life sucked, I did it for a few years of my childhood.  Related to that is my love of video games, cause what the fuck else was there to do?

ColumbiaHouse!
YEAHHAAAAAA

I was a rural kid too and I got into a lot of trouble with Columbia House. My parents were so angry at me when the first collections bill came lol.

[seieienbu]

So, are CD longboxes and 3DO boxes the same?  I had a few 3DO boxes and eventually put them somewhere and now they're in a box in my parents' attic if they still exist at all.  Man, those things were terrible.

[Mathius]

So, are CD longboxes and 3DO boxes the same?  I had a few 3DO boxes and eventually put them somewhere and now they're in a box in my parents' attic if they still exist at all.  Man, those things were terrible.

Most 3DO long boxes were their own thing. Kinda a mesh between "true" PS1 longboxes and early two-piece cardboard PC boxes. Other one-piece 3DO boxes resembled those of early music CD packaging and were far less durable. Both were way too tall.

[StarDust4Ever]

Ah, really. I don't have any SEGA PAL games anymore.
Isn't there anything good about PAL games (besides nostalgia for some) often most expensive, crippled with 50hz/bars and crappy cases.

Most SMS games were not region dependent, and SMS was much more successful in Europe because Nintendo couldn't strongarm developers to not produce games for it there unlike in the US. A few PAL games that did too much processing in the overscan region or had otehr timing issues may have had artifacts, but for the majority of games, the PAL SMS games ran stock on NTSC hardware. Sonic infamously had a NTSC specific region sticker on the box.

Sega had lockouts with Megadrive/Genesis, but it was game optional. My PAL Psycho Pinball and Micro Machines II carts run fine on my US Genesis. Then the Turbografx never really made it out of US/Japan, so the relatively few test market PAL consoles are just NTSC hardware with gimped 50Hz video.

NES is in a similar situation with many games running on stock NES hardware with the region chip disabled, and in rare instances wher the PAL games were optimized, run too fast and at wrong pitch on NTSC hardware, or slow/flat on PAL hardware. SNES and N64 also had lockout chips and physical tabs as well, which can be broken on a US SNES to support Super Famicom carts but not the like-shaped PAL carts. Nintendo started adding microcode to most SNES games released after 1992 to prevent pass-through converters from playing out of region carts on PAL SNES systems.

Atari 2600 used incompatible color pallets between PAL and NTSC systems and the 50Hz refresh rates made most NTSC TVs roll or at least crop the bottom. 7800 was completely incompatible across regions.

[HuMan]

My favorite is Panzer Dragoon Saga, which has three of its four CDs in paper envelopes banging around in the box because that giant ass case can't hold more than 1CD, despite being twice as big as a standard 4xCD audio CD case (which is what the JP version came in).

There are some 2 CD Saturn games that came with a special disc tray that slots in above the main tray, for what it's worth.

[Winniez]

Ah, I'm not that familiar with SEGA games optimization. I think most early Mega Drive PAL games were just slowed down while later had their game speed and music adjusted.

Suprisingly there are more PAL optimized NES games than SNES games. Most of the NES games had atleast their music optimized, meaning that when played on NTSC hardware the gameplay is at normal speed but music too fast. But there are also completely unoptimized games like the first Castlevania. The actual PAL hardware was underclocked.
There are way more unoptimized SNES games, which in theory is a good thing since you are able to play them as intended with other hardware/modding. To my knowledge N64 games were often optimized, atleast the major games. And Rare being European helped aswell. With N64 its especially bad since framerates were often just about bearable to begin with.

In Europe it was a fairly common mod to install 50/60hz- and regioncode switches on SNES consoles.

[xcrement5x]

My favorite is Panzer Dragoon Saga, which has three of its four CDs in paper envelopes banging around in the box because that giant ass case can't hold more than 1CD, despite being twice as big as a standard 4xCD audio CD case (which is what the JP version came in).

There are some 2 CD Saturn games that came with a special disc tray that slots in above the main tray, for what it's worth.

SegaCD games as well.  Fahrenheit, Double Switch, and Ground Zero Texas are good examples to look at.

[SignOfZeta]

So, are CD longboxes and 3DO boxes the same?  I had a few 3DO boxes and eventually put them somewhere and now they're in a box in my parents' attic if they still exist at all.  Man, those things were terrible.

You might be right about that. I've sorta forgotten most of what I know about 3DO but I used work at a place that rented out 3DO and I so kinda remember what may have been RIAA style CD longboxes. IIRC packaging wasn't fully standardized for 3DO.

Since games were rarely sold at record stores back 1993 and record stores had ditched their 12" shelving by then it would have been a dumb thing to do but...it is 3DO we're talking about here...

[GohanX]

3do game cases were not consistent at all. I have a bunch, all of the boxes are different.

[GohanX]

Fuck yo mama, 3do has some good shit. It's better than a PCFX at any rate.

[spenoza]

Fuck yo mama, 3do has some good shit. It's better than a PCFX at any rate.

That's like saying, "At least having my arm needlessly amputated is better than being disemboweled."

[GohanX]

Well, that is true. But you could take your one arm, get a 3do flight stick and play an awesome version of Wing Commander III.