"PCEWorks" finally bootlegs Magical Chase

[DeshDildo]

Ouch... this thread fills me with disappointment and this is coming from the forum parasite.  It's like finding out your wife is fucking your arch enemy.

[Dicer]

My thoughts as always...



He's gonna keep makin em, people are gonna keep buying/flipping/reviewing them

Why get salty over it anymore, it's not gonna make a fuckin lick O' difference.

[NoSexGex]

Ouch... this thread fills me with disappointment and this is coming from the forum parasite.  It's like finding out your wife is fucking your arch enemy.

Damn, that's a vivid example

[Arkhan Asylum]

Why get salty over it anymore, it's not gonna make a fuckin lick O' difference.

Because *now*,  our own "people" are supplying him and making his job that much easier.

AKA: The literal opposite of what you should be doing if you want a piece of shit to stop.


Remember when we all laughed at how stupid Tobias was, and how what he was doing sucked?

and how some people were going to group up and do an alternative to push him out?

hah.

hahahahhaa.


"If you can't beat em, join em" doesn't even apply because there was never an attempted alternative.   It was more like "fuck it! money! LOLOL"

[Dicer]

Why get salty over it anymore, it's not gonna make a fuckin lick O' difference.

Because *now*,  our own "people" are supplying him and making his job that much easier.

AKA: The literal opposite of what you should be doing if you want a piece of shit to stop.


Remember when we all laughed at how stupid Tobias was, and how what he was doing sucked?

and how some people were going to group up and do an alternative to push him out?

hah.

hahahahhaa.


"If you can't beat em, join em" doesn't even apply because there was never an attempted alternative.   It was more like "fuck it! money! LOLOL"

I meant it in more of a personal way, I'm a relative "noob" to this community even though I've been balls deep in the obey scene since it was a thing.

I just think people are gonna do what they are gonna do, support the good ones, shun the bad ones.

Sorry if I got ya riled Ark, t'was not the intent.

Peace and love hugs and shit....

[Arkhan Asylum]

The problem is, we have "good ones" doing things "bad ones" would do, and instead of anyone going "okwtf" we have a goddamn parade about it with high fives and participation trophies for everyone involved.

If you pulled this shit like not even 5 years ago, you'd get lit up.

The problem I think, is that other relative noobs kinda just showed up, were cool enough, did some mods & arts and crafts stuff that people liked, and then they took it too far.

To me it seems like they're chasing money.   They also don't seem to realize that they are irking and/or driving people away.

This is partially because other people are so loud with the high fives that it makes it seem OK.


It's not OK anymore.   This is horse shit.

If RoyVegas or some other idiot did this same shit, we'd be having a field day with him.   This biased high-fiver-y sucks.

The people who would also be speaking up have either gotten tired of it and just left, or they've legit died. 

[Sarumaru]

The problem is, we have "good ones" doing things "bad ones" would do, and instead of anyone going "okwtf" we have a goddamn parade about it with high fives and participation trophies for everyone involved.

If you pulled this shit like not even 5 years ago, you'd get lit up.

The problem I think, is that other relative noobs kinda just showed up, were cool enough, did some mods & arts and crafts stuff that people liked, and then they took it too far.

To me it seems like they're chasing money.   They also don't seem to realize that they are irking and/or driving people away.

This is partially because other people are so loud with the high fives that it makes it seem OK.


It's not OK anymore.   This is horse shit.

If RoyVegas or some other idiot did this same shit, we'd be having a field day with him.   This biased high-fiver-y sucks.

The people who would also be speaking up have either gotten tired of it and just left, or they've legit died.

The problem is with social media where this sort of thing seems to be acceptable and the majority there have no real moral compass. So long as the packaging is pretti, they'll want it. Another issue with why all of this is in the state that it's in is that there are a number of people who were long time members of the community who were respected and so it's easier to overlook these things for what it seems like most people. If someone DOES try to stick it to em and make cheaper repros or whatever, those people will likely make enemies with those who are involved with the current repros (which already happened between two people making repros AFAIK).  Personally I don't agree with what's happening at the PCEworks front and was very upset about the XAKIII/SOII being sold again because at that point, he's profiteering off of the very recent work of people who had done the work so the gamers could enjoy for free. But one of the biggest issues with this whole PCEworks thing is that many weren't around for the BS (Sapphire etc.) or simply don't care. How do you stop it? He's been at it for a decade and a half already.

[Arkhan Asylum]

On Facebook, nobody gives a flying fuck, as you've already noted.   

Members of ISIS could show up selling copies of games photographed next to decapitated prisoners or whatever, and half those stupid fucks would be like "PM SENT.  DO YOU TAKE PAYPAL?".

You can give them the history lesson.   It doesn't do anything.   They don't care.

It falls on deaf ears to the majority of people because they are just dumbasses that want more shelf candy so they can get validation from strangers on the internet about their wads of shit they don't actually play.

That attitude has leaked into here as well.  I've pointed it out before.

We also have newer members both here and on FB that to me, are disrespectful dickshits with respect to the PCE community / scene.  They start with that "omg y u naysaying." and "omg its just opinions everyone can have them omg" bullshit. 

They don't care about the historical context of anything.   They don't care about who's who / done what.   They just want to get shelf candy, and to shitpost. 

That's it.


Everything's devolved into self centered piece of shit shitposters that just want to buy stuff and don't care where it's coming from, and have no actual respect for anything.

We had people who, as I said, were claiming they were going to do something proactive about stopping it.

look how that went.

Our own kind turned on us, so it's all basically fucked at this point.

Facebook/Social Media fucked it all up.

The only way to fix it is for the impossible to happen:  Everyone would need to stop being a bunch of high fiving boyscouts.   

[shubibiman]

Great post that pretty much sums my state of mind of the moment.

Thanks Arkhan.

But I'd like to add : remember what I said when Turbokon first sold his Magical Chase repros ?

Edit : Remember this ?

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20841.msg457196#msg457196

Ok Turbokon. So you just steal someone else's work and then you sell fake games 45$. Do you have the licence for that or are you just gonna be one of those "PCE memories" scumbags ?

[Arkhan Asylum]

Great post that pretty much sums my state of mind of the moment.

Thanks Arkhan.

But I'd like to add : remember what I said when Turbokon first sold his Magical Chase repros ?

Edit : Remember this ?

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20841.msg457196#msg457196

Ok Turbokon. So you just steal someone else's work and then you sell fake games 45$. Do you have the licence for that or are you just gonna be one of those "PCE memories" scumbags ?

Yeah I mean, we've sure as hell come full circle on that and it is extremely disappointing to see greed overtake common sense.

I never really enjoyed the 45$ price tag, in all honesty.   It's too high.  I know the cost of the parts is nowhere near that. 

The idea was to get cheap copies of rare games into the hands of humans so they could have physical copies to play.   

At the time, it made sense.  Everdrives were harder to come by and always out of stock.   The other flash carts were pieces of shit.   

GameOfYou stopped making his sweet little 30$ one (which by the way, for fucks sake, GameOfYou's reprogrammable via USB flashcartridge is cheaper than a bootleg of ONE game.  What.)

but, they're fake.  They will always be fake. They don't hold any inherent value/story/meaning that makes them worth stacking on a shelf.

Their value is whatever the parts cost.  There's nothing special about them.  Buy an everdrive.  It's the same.

Everdrive availability for around 80$ has rendered these things utterly pointless for anything other than some moronic desire to have shit on a shelf.

Like Zeta said, gamers collect really stupid shit that is so stupid it makes collectors in other hobbies go "what. the. fuck.?"

My grandparents taped movies on HBO in the 80s.  They have a whole mess of VHS on a shelf, labeled with what movies are on the VHS.

I can assure you, nobody is going to walk in there one day and go HOLY SHIT.

STEEL MAGNOLIAS ON A KODAK VHS!?  SWEET.

I have a bin of cassette tapes.  My early 90s mixtapes with scribbly labels mean literally nothing.  My copies of CDs that I put onto a cassette?  Worthless.

This crap is pretty much the same

It's meaningless copies made because we can't afford real ones.

Except now, the fucking meaningless copies are approaching the same level of "what the fuck, I am not paying that for a game".

If it's not an original, it's not special.  It's crap.

Everything is crap.

We're all crap.

[ClodBusted]

I know both Tobias William Reich's adress and phone number, acquired through the Denic's Whois entry of hazard-city.de, and https://www.dastelefonbuch.de/Suche/Reich/M%C3%BCnchen . This is freely available information to anybody.

If anybody has trouble to get this information by himself, e.g. for fans sending him love letters for the love of it, please let me know via PM. I won't post the adress, though, unless NecroPhile and others are OK with it.

EDIT: More related domains with the same WhoIs:
http://www.garden-of-war.de/
http://www.creative-weapon.de/

[gojira1954]

I like the analogy of repros to VHS copies lol
Clearly for me repros are a waste of space, can't see the point at all :s
One way to dent pceworks sales would be to get the exclusive stuff he sells into the public domain;
SUPER REAL MAHJONG PII-III CUSTOM SPECIAL, twinbee returns et al

[Gredler]

I love the everdrives, being able to play all these "rare games" I can't afford, but also own a couple repros.

A SD2Snes is like over 100$ and could buy a repro of terrenigma, a game not released in my region, for ~$25 at a trade show. I picked it up figuring I could play the game and be on my way for a cheap solution without the ultra fake feel of emulation.

Repros can be cool, when affordable options to excessively prices games. Repros as collectors items though. That's madness, I agree.

[gojira1954]

Fair enough, for games you can't get to work on an everdrive I get it, I've converted sfc carts into us Mario rpg and starfox 2...
But I didn't buy or sell them, hacking the carts was more fun than playing the game for me :s
Selling copyrighted works in deliberately appealing to fuckwits packaging is not something I would support, fun to point and laugh tho

[geise]

He's gonna keep makin em, people are gonna keep buying/flipping/reviewing them

Why get salty over it anymore, it's not gonna make a fuckin lick O' difference.

People are getting salty since actual forum members here are physically supporting him. Adding fuel to the fire as Arkhan put it.  If people would leave this asshole and all his pceworks shit alone he can move onto fucking some other scene instead.

[LostFlunky]

Doesn't bother me until you make a Magical Chase bundle  with energy drinks and stickers for like $200

[NecroPhile]

I'm not gonna lie, I still want a mahjong panty box set. 

[Opethian]

necro they don't make it in your size so stop hoping

[GohanX]

He doesn't want to wear them, he wants to sniff them.

He wants to take in the aroma of Tobias. All of it.

[jperryss]

Lol!

I've always wondered if Tobias puts on each pair and does some jumping jacks or jogs a bit to properly scrot 'em up.

I know I teabagged the hell out of some hueys that turbozonedirect1 won for his ebay flipping biz. I kinda hope turbokon did the same with the repros Tobias bought... though he may have gotten raw with that many cards to rub on.

Ass hueys?

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2n6137

[_Paul]

Everything Arkhan said.

[Trenton_net]

I don't envy people who want to find legitimately rare PC-Engine titles these days. Before when you wanted legit copies of "The TV Show" or "Bazaru de Gozaru", it would take a while for them to appear, but when they did they were authentic. Now markets are flooded with semi-honest (?) listings that say their copies are the new 2016 pressings from Germany, or just outright false with no warning at all (except for the expert collector who can spot them).

For example, this guy selling "The TV Show" sealed. But don't worry! It's not hand made! It's a 100% custom designed one from 2016, made in Germany. At 100%+ markup to boot! :/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEALED-The-Tv-Show-for-PC-Engine-Turbografx-Turbo-DUO-/182496134350?hash=item2a7d9e04ce:g:aAQAAOSw2gxYz0Ua

I think most of the old timers here already have these rare titles, but for the new guy getting into the PC-Engine, it's probably going to be a rough ride (Especially with speculators driving the price up for all things retro game).

[SignOfZeta]

Before all this bullshit nobody went looking for those games. PCE fandom was minimal when they were released and they probably had trouble selling what they had. Now there are 70 million gaijin complaining about how expensive it is to own every single goddamn game on the system as if that's something expected of them.

[Psycho Punch]

I'm still confused about how on earth Tobias gets to print all those obvious bootlegs in fucking Germany of all places. I talked with some local disc presses and they make you prove you have the rights granted for the data + every single music track. Is he forging documents or did he just find a shady factory for his discs?

about teh rar3z: Who the hell wants to genuinely play "The TV Show" so bad? That's right: no one. And that goes for a lot of tobias'd titles, from the good games (I still haven't found anyone except for me who claimed to try to get into Might and Magic III, let alone beat it) to the absolutely useless ones that only get a "reprint" because of r4r1ty hype (everyone was just DYING to play this particular PCE mahjong game, yeah right). Any "true collector" ( ) that legitimately wants those titles isn't going to settle for a bootleg anyway.

[CrackTiger]

He faked a document from Hudson Soft of Japan, so he could be faking more, but he's probably using the company in Switzerland because they don't care.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Things like this again just confirm that he's a piece of shit, and people who assist in his garbage should be ashamed of themselves.

[NoSexGex]

(I still haven't found anyone except for me who claimed to try to get into Might and Magic III, let alone beat it)

Strongly agree. Pretty sure my manual went from a VGA 85 to a VGA 15 just flipping through it

[shubibiman]

Before all this bullshit nobody went looking for those games. PCE fandom was minimal when they were released and they probably had trouble selling what they had. Now there are 70 million gaijin complaining about how expensive it is to own every single goddamn game on the system as if that's something expected of them.

The thing is, even until last year nobody even knew about those titles. You can expect everyone to say how Bazaru de Gozaru is the best puzzle game of all times, because it was made by the same company that created the Pokemons.

Just as I see a lot of people saying that Coryoon is the best PCE shooter. They've only been saying this since the game has reached the 400$+ mark.

[ClodBusted]

For example, this guy selling "The TV Show" sealed. But don't worry! It's not hand made! It's a 100% custom designed one from 2016, made in Germany. At 100%+ markup to boot! :/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEALED-The-Tv-Show-for-PC-Engine-Turbografx-Turbo-DUO-/182496134350?hash=item2a7d9e04ce:g:aAQAAOSw2gxYz0Ua

I just reported some of this seller's listings.

[Freeway2]

^^^^^^Thank you!,  those are the assholes who sold me a Bonk 3 at the end of last year/beginning of this year.  Shortly after hitting the buy it now button I had a bad feeling.  Well I sent a pm asking to cancel it and couldn't get a answer so I messaged ebay who said they we're told it had already been shipped.  Well after about a week of constant harassment I was finally told I would be reported for making threats(I left pms saying I would be at their shop in the morning ect.  It took a month and a half to get the game which is how I found out about memories.       SCUM

[Gypsy]

Just as I see a lot of people saying that Coryoon is the best PCE shooter. They've only been saying this since the game has reached the 400$+ mark.

Must be a bunch of people that haven't actually played Coryoon. Or Winds of Thunder, Gate of Thunder, Spriggan etc...

[NecroPhile]

The thing is, even until last year nobody even knew about those titles. You can expect everyone to say how Bazaru de Gozaru is the best puzzle game of all times, because it was made by the same company that created the Pokemons.

Just as I see a lot of people saying that Coryoon is the best PCE shooter. They've only been saying this since the game has reached the 400$+ mark.

I think that only applies to Johnny-Turbo-Come-Latelys.  Those of us that've been OBEYing for years are familiar with all the games he's made, either owning them, playing 'em on cdr, or wistfully thinking they'd love to try 'em after reading a review on Duomazov (but not at the going price).

[Opethian]

FM downs repros is an untapped market
think of the opportunities here future investors

[Psycho Punch]

FM downs repros is an untapped market
think of the opportunities here future investors

brb supplying cheap rewritable SCV carts in bulk to Tobias while selling my own copies of games, haha that will show him. UNDERCUTTED BITCH!

EPOCH Works for the love of it!
Dragon Ball Epoch Super Casette Vision special edition with 4-star dragon ball and bulma's panties 255 EUR


(lol at FM "downs")

[Trenton_net]

About teh rar3z: Who the hell wants to genuinely play "The TV Show" so bad? That's right: no one. And that goes for a lot of tobias'd titles

Lol, I admit "The TV Show" was a bad example, but some games like Dracula X and Gozaru are legitimately enjoyably titles. (^_^); But as a whole, yes rare games don't usually deserve the asking price being commanded.  Unless your a hardcore fan, "Good" or even "Excellent" doesn't mean $200+ "Good" or "Excellent".

[Koa Zo]

Dragon Ball Epoch Super Casette Vision special edition with 4-star dragon ball and bulma's panties 255 EUR

PM sent!

[ChuChu Flamingo]

I really don't see the point in owning a reproduction of something physical that cost this much just because it is tangible. I can understand brand new games that are made for retro consoles or maybe romhacks (which most are overpriced anyhow).

[Gentlegamer]

I really don't see the point in owning a reproduction of something physical that cost this much just because it is tangible. I can understand brand new games that are made for retro consoles or maybe romhacks (which most are overpriced anyhow).

It stems from a mental disorder called collectardation.

[SignOfZeta]

This is another thing that fans of other things usually understand better than gamers.

"Legit": legal rights play a large part. If you make something original yourself it's legit. If you sell photocopies of it, they are legit. If I sell a photocopy of it, it's not legit unless you've given me permission.  An old NES game is legit. Game & Watch Ball is legit. Nintendo's repro Game & Watch is legit. All regions are legit. An artist who is no longer legally attached to something he once worked on and goes it alone is...mostly legit. (Greg Lake and the ELP Experience). By this metric the Neo Geo X is legit, even though it's not that great, because quality has nothing to do with legitimacy. Vitage Ultraman SoFuBi are total crap but %100 legit.

Not legit: pretty much everything else. Home made shit. Neo Geo Freak, PCE Memories. CD-Rs of ROMs (yes, including CD-Rs of ROMs in a fancy case).

There isn't any in between. To most collectors in most scenes nothing bootleg is worth even the sum of its parts...dollar-wise, that is. In scenes where some kind of media or art is what's being collected then bootlegs are ESSENTIAL to that scene. There aren't enough copies of Sapphire or whatever to go around. However, all of these essential boots are basically worthless...

There are exceptions. Replica Group B rally cars are a big business now since almost any legit car described as such is half a million dollars now. It takes a lot of money to make one, and usually quite a few "legit" parts such as a shell and an engine, so these are by nature very expensive bootlegs. However there is ZERO confusion over what is real, and the real shit is hella super rare as fuck. It would be VERY hard to build a knock-off 205 T16 and successfully sell it as one without having INTERPOL issue a warrant for your arrest soon after.

Neo Geo AES is kinda like the rally car scene in that the "boots" often require legit shit to make. For example, Crazy Dion is in the shit again for soliciting a fake Metal Slug JP. It has all legit ROM chips in it (making it infinitely more legit than anything Tobias does) but has all its PCBs and case and packaging either taken from elsewhere or outright fabricated. However, to the serious AES collector the cart is offensive because they SAC-ed a MS1 MVS cart and some home cart so make these so those two have essentially been destroyed (uncool) and used as a scam to suck $1500 out of someone (diabolical). The resulting boot is worth far less than the $100 worth of stuff they used to make it to a serious collector. Personally, as a collector of only the filthiest MVS carts on principle I'm cool with anything that has real SNK chips in it...but I don't do AES anyway...

In the record collecting world boots are just part of being involved in music, as a performer, as a store, a label, or fan. However, unless the boot itself is of some kind of significance (ie: secretly released by the artist, for example) then it's worth like $10 max forever.

In the record world there is no analog to Tobias becsuse in the record world the collectards aren't as collectarded as gamers are.

Which...should not surprise. Games don't exactly make you smart or worldly...

[shubibiman]

In the music world, bootlegs are mostly lives and have nothing in common with an official record whatsoever. In Tobias' case, his bootlegs are just repros.

And I never thought I would ever read about a Peugeot car on US forums XD

[elmer]

And I never thought I would ever read about a Peugeot car on US forums XD

Hey! I loved my little Red 205 XS ... my first car, and my first speeding ticket.

The Policeman was pretty much laughing at me, saying "Well, that was about as fast as this little thing goes, wasn't it!". 

[esteban]

And I never thought I would ever read about a Peugeot car on US forums XD

Hey! I loved my little Red 205 XS ... my first car, and my first speeding ticket.

The Policeman was pretty much laughing at me, saying "Well, that was about as fast as this little thing goes, wasn't it!". 

25 KPH. Max.

I can go faster on my bike uphill.

[elmer]

25 KPH. Max.

I can go faster on my bike uphill.

You cheeky bastidge! 

I'll have you know that I had the "Performance" model, with the super-powerful 1.3L 4-cylinder engine!

I could absolutely fly when going downhill. 

[SignOfZeta]

The 205 T16 in final Evo forum would do 0-60 in three seconds. It's worth even an American's attention.

[Winniez]

Most well balanced and reliable of the group B cars but has absolutely nothing - and I mean nothing - to do with the actual production car. That being said the regular 205 GTI is a great fun to drive, propably the most fun FWD car of the 80s. Very eager and tossable. When the french get something right they really hit it out of the park.

[Gentlegamer]

There isn't any in between. To most collectors in most scenes nothing bootleg is worth even the sum of its parts...dollar-wise, that is. In scenes where some kind of media or art is what's being collected then bootlegs are ESSENTIAL to that scene. There aren't enough copies of Sapphire or whatever to go around. However, all of these essential boots are basically worthless...

This is true, but there is one gaming exception I know of: gamers from the former communist eastern bloc actually collect the Famicom bootlegs that were smuggled in and circulated from that era because that is authentic to their nostalgia. And as far as I know, only the actual bootlegs from the era are considered authentic, which makes sense in a weird way.

[Winniez]

And Zeta I think you are being too kind for collectors of other articles. You wouldn't belive the collectarding one can encounter in the world of comic books, LEGO or vintage toys.
Although I agree about videogame collectors in general, there is that certain hording mentality that dictates you have to fill the shelves and buy everything.

[seieienbu]

There isn't any in between. To most collectors in most scenes nothing bootleg is worth even the sum of its parts...dollar-wise, that is. In scenes where some kind of media or art is what's being collected then bootlegs are ESSENTIAL to that scene. There aren't enough copies of Sapphire or whatever to go around. However, all of these essential boots are basically worthless...

This is true, but there is one gaming exception I know of: gamers from the former communist eastern bloc actually collect the Famicom bootlegs that were smuggled in and circulated from that era because that is authentic to their nostalgia. And as far as I know, only the actual bootlegs from the era are considered authentic, which makes sense in a weird way.

I'd never heard of that before; that's fascinating.  As for who would pay hundreds for a modern day bootleg, that's beyond me.  Something like that with some amount of historical value seems different to me though.  I accidentally wound up with a King bootleg of a PC Engine game that had been masquerading as a real title a while back.  I kept it as a piece of curiosity even though I recognize that it's not the same as the actual game I was attempting to get.

[esteban]

There isn't any in between. To most collectors in most scenes nothing bootleg is worth even the sum of its parts...dollar-wise, that is. In scenes where some kind of media or art is what's being collected then bootlegs are ESSENTIAL to that scene. There aren't enough copies of Sapphire or whatever to go around. However, all of these essential boots are basically worthless...

This is true, but there is one gaming exception I know of: gamers from the former communist eastern bloc actually collect the Famicom bootlegs that were smuggled in and circulated from that era because that is authentic to their nostalgia. And as far as I know, only the actual bootlegs from the era are considered authentic, which makes sense in a weird way.

I'd never heard of that before; that's fascinating.  As for who would pay hundreds for a modern day bootleg, that's beyond me.  Something like that with some amount of historical value seems different to me though.  I accidentally wound up with a King bootleg of a PC Engine game that had been masquerading as a real title a while back.  I kept it as a piece of curiosity even though I recognize that it's not the same as the actual game I was attempting to get.

TANGENT:

This reminded me of the "creatively inventive" gadgets folks in Cuba, Eastern Europe and Soviet Union built with scavenged parts/motors/circuits/etc.

It reveals creative solutions to dire living conditions.

[SignOfZeta]

There isn't any in between. To most collectors in most scenes nothing bootleg is worth even the sum of its parts...dollar-wise, that is. In scenes where some kind of media or art is what's being collected then bootlegs are ESSENTIAL to that scene. There aren't enough copies of Sapphire or whatever to go around. However, all of these essential boots are basically worthless...

This is true, but there is one gaming exception I know of: gamers from the former communist eastern bloc actually collect the Famicom bootlegs that were smuggled in and circulated from that era because that is authentic to their nostalgia. And as far as I know, only the actual bootlegs from the era are considered authentic, which makes sense in a weird way.

When I said "unless the boot is of some kind of significance" I was thinking of Elmyr de Hory but your example is better.

I would totally collectard some Soviet-era Dendy shit, because I'm totally dumb to that scene and don't know anything about it, kinda like Turbo noobs on eBay.