RT2A on SGX

[touko]

Hi all .

You can test the adaptation of my little bonus shmup present in the revival chase CD for the SGX .

dropbox.com/s/3xla03bhdcr0sof/Rt2A_SGX.sgx?dl=0

[MNKyDeth]

Downloaded, will try it out later today.

[touko]

Aww... Doesn't work in the emulator on my phone. Will have to try it on a computer later tonight.

Works fine on mednafen .

Did I mention how awesome it is that you make SGX homebrews?

Thanks 

EDIT: Raaah i forgot to reactivate the countdown sequence in this build 

The next build will fix the some persistant bugs present on true hardware .

[elmer]

Aww... Doesn't work in the emulator on my phone. Will have to try it on a computer later tonight.

Works fine on mednafen .

FYI, it's not working for me, either, and I'm using Mednafen.

[Dicer]

"WELCOME!"

works on real hardware , all those layers...

if you hit select to get back to the main menu that has gfx glitches but otherwise works.

Neat-o

[touko]

Have you activated the sgx suport on mednafen ?

@dicer:arf this was tested only on emulator, and of course it works fine,thanks for reporting that.

EDIT:@dicer, my bad, there is effectively a bug when returning to menu,it will be corrected with the next release . 

[elmer]

Have you activated the sgx suport on mednafen ?

Whoops ... my bad!

Yes, it works, I just had to rename it to a ".sgx" instead of a ".pce". 

Nice!

[touko]

Yes but if you put pce.forcesgx 1 in your mednafen .cfg,it works even with a .pce .

[elmer]

Yes but if you put pce.forcesgx 1 in your mednafen .cfg,it works even with a .pce .

That's fine for me as a developer ... but a lot of folks don't just randomly edit mednafen.cfg.

And if they do that, then they'll be bitten by the titles that don't work on a SuperGrafx without disabling VDC2.

May I suggest that you just rename it to a ".sgx" so that Mednafen can automatically detect what it is rather than expecting people to know that they've got to edit mednafen.cfg in order for it to work?

[touko]

That's fine for me as a developer ... but a lot of folks don't just randomly edit mednafen.cfg.

Yes, and to be true, i forgot that only by changing extension,this is solving the problem   

May I suggest that you just rename it to a ".sgx" so that Mednafen can automatically detect what it is rather than expecting people to know that they've got to edit mednafen.cfg in order for it to work?

yes of course 

EDIT:link is updated with a .sgx .

[MNKyDeth]

I tested it on my Ted in my SuperGrafx. I use a framemiester XRGB-mini and the screen will go in and out like it loses the picture or like when a game changes resolution the framemiester has to re-sync itself.

I can watch the End of game screen without issue and the start screen. But the game it self I can kill about 3-4 enemies before the screen goes black then comes back on the end of game screen.

[touko]

I tested it on my Ted in my SuperGrafx. I use a framemiester XRGB-mini and the screen will go in and out like it loses the picture or like when a game changes resolution the framemiester has to re-sync itself.

Yes, it's because i switch to HIRES/LOWRES in vblank to speedup all dma transferts, but something is wrong with the true hardware(wrong with my code of course), i'll desactivate this switch in the next release 

I can watch the End of game screen without issue and the start screen. But the game it self I can kill about 3-4 enemies before the screen goes black then comes back on the end of game screen.

Strange, i tested again with my sgx, and i don't have this problem .

[MNKyDeth]

Well, it's the framemiester re-syncing. The screen goes black. I die, once I see the screen again it is on the end game screen. So I think it's the same issue for me.

Flappy bird works great

Also, is there a location we can peruse for all your projects? The link in your sig seems to be dead...

[touko]

Also, is there a location we can peruse for all your projects? The link in your sig seems to be dead...

No,my blog is down, and except on youtube, i have no place for now .

Flappy bird works great

No DMA routine in vblank 

[elmer]

Yes, it's because i switch to HIRES/LOWRES in vblank to speedup all dma transferts, but something is wrong with the true hardware(wrong with my code of course), i'll desactivate this switch in the next release 

It's a Friday, and nearly drinking-time, so I'm going to paraphrase the immortal Inigo Montoya once more ...

"I do not think that optimization does what you think it does." 

Just one brilliant-idea too far ... and every good programmer has made that mistake before! 

[touko]

"I do not think that optimization does what you think it does." 

In evidence no, it's the counterpart when you code exclusively with emulator .

Just one brilliant-idea too far ... and every good programmer has made that mistake before! 

But for now i have no idea what's wrong with it,may be a synchro problem with VSR/VDR/VCR when i switch between 5 and 10 mhz ..

[elmer]

But for now i have no idea what's wrong with it,may be a synchro problem with VSR/VDR/VCR when i switch between 5 and 10 mhz ..

You are messing with the clock that controls the TV signal. CRT TV's don't like unstable signals.

You may be able to fix things by changing HSR and HDR at the same time ... but it all depends upon when the VDC chip latches those values, and you're still going to introduce a few cycles of "glitch".

Are there any examples of shipping games that have split-screens in different resolutions?

[SamIAm]

Are there any examples of shipping games that have split-screens in different resolutions?

I could be totally wrong about this, but I think some Super Famicom RPGs switched into a high resolution for the text boxes so the fonts could be more detailed.

[elmer]

I could be totally wrong about this, but I think some Super Famicom RPGs switched into a high resolution for the text boxes so the fonts could be more detailed.

Ahhh ... I wasn't quite specific-enough. I'm only asking about the PCE.

Resolution-switching mid-screen is a "hardware" issue. Some systems are definitely designed for it (I did it on the Amstrad CPC in all my games, but that was a color-depth-vs-resolution switch, and not a different-clock-signal switch).

I can't remember if the capability was built-in to the SNES ... but I wouldn't be at-all-surprised.

With the way that the PCE splits the TV's timing between the VCE and the VDC, with multiple registers controlling different aspects of the signal, and with the VDC tending to only update certain settings at the start of a vblank, then I'm not-at-all-sure if it can handle a mid-screen resolution change ... which is effectively what Touko is trying to do with his 10MHz-in-vblank trick.

But I've not done any experiments ... so I wonder if anyone knows of a PCE game that does it, because that would be instant-proof that it's capable. 

[SamIAm]

Gotcha. 

Does this count?

[Mednafen]

IIRC, the VDC behaves strangely(output image is positioned inconsistently horizontally compared to 5MHz and 7MHz modes, and wait-stating is inconsistent too) when running with the 10MHz pixel clock from the VCE.  I think it's probably because the lines(hsync to hsync) are "too" long, although I never got around to digging into it.

FWIW, Mednafen doesn't emulate this properly.

[touko]

You may be able to fix things by changing HSR and HDR at the same time

yes,i already did it but seems to be not sufficient(or it's done too late ??)

Are there any examples of shipping games that have split-screens in different resolutions?

the chris covell's split resolution demo doing this on active display .

[elmer]

the chris covell's split resolution demo doing this on active display .

Cool! Sounds like you've got some code-hacking to do, or maybe Chris can just tell us his secret. 

[touko]

Cool! Sounds like you've got some code-hacking to do, or maybe Chris can just tell us his secret. 

Chris posted also the source code,and he changed only HDR/HSR if i remember correctly .

[ccovell]

The VDC was quite malleable when changing resolutions mid-field.  There was a line of sprite glitching, but that might not be the case if you time your writes a bit better than I did.

Plus, there was no problem with my TV, but modern LCD TVs might be a different story...   

[Mednafen]

You can even change the pixel clock mid-scanline to something else and back, if you're careful with the timing, to get a wavy effect:

sarsie.fobby.net/junk/wavy1.png

I wasn't careful enough with the timing in that proof-of-concept demo I wrote 8 years ago, as the glitching can attest to. ;)

[touko]

The download link is updated with the new version .

The mednafen example make me think that may be my code change the VDC reg mid scanline sometimes, and cause a sort of out of synch ??, because even if i am doing it in vblank,i don't care about if i am at a start of scanline or not .

[MNKyDeth]

Besides a couple of graphical glitches on my SuperGrafx. Everything seemed to work just fine going through my XRGB-mini this time. My screen never blacked out and it never tried to resync.

[touko]

My screen never blacked out and it never tried to resync.

Cool, i deleted the resolution switch on vblank . 

Besides a couple of graphical glitches on my SuperGrafx

Where have you those glitches exactly ??
If you can test directly on your tv(and not through your XRGB-mini) to see if the glitches have disappeared.

[MNKyDeth]

There is one, when I die I become a white or grey object. It seems to be a random color. Hard to describe really. I see the flame animation and then my ship becomes the squares or square type objects before going to the End Of Game screen.

Sometimes when I kill the missile coming at me it becomes two black bars in the location that I killed it.

Those seem to be the only two I have seen so far. I havn't gotten very far into the game yet.

[touko]

I see the flame animation and then my ship becomes the squares or square type objects before going to the End Of Game screen.

Ok I see, normally this bug is fixed(but seems not entirely) , i'll do more testing on my SGX to see how it happens.

Sometimes when I kill the missile coming at me it becomes two black bars in the location that I killed it.

This one, i have not had yet .

[MNKyDeth]

I am heading to bed here shortly, but if I have time over the next couple of days I will try to get a video of the game play and show what I get for the missile one.

I do use a Super CD-Rom 2 attachment with a RGB mod in it if that matters at all. I have no idea if it does but figured I would mention it just in case.

[touko]

I am heading to bed here shortly, but if I have time over the next couple of days I will try to get a video of the game play and show what I get for the missile one.

Thanks, this help me a lot . 

I do use a Super CD-Rom 2 attachment with a RGB mod in it if that matters at all. I have no idea if it does but figured I would mention it just in case.

hum, i know some problems can occur when you have the AC plugged,but nothing with your configuration .

EDIT: May be i have an idea what's going on, i'll post a new rom tomorrow,even with my tries, i am not be able to reproduce the glitches you have mentionned, but i 've had other in the same vain .
i think the problem come from my sprite routines to show/hide sprites .

[touko]

hi,new rom available .

EDIT:Another rom uploaded, some bugs corrected .

[elmer]

The VDC was quite malleable when changing resolutions mid-field.  There was a line of sprite glitching, but that might not be the case if you time your writes a bit better than I did.

Plus, there was no problem with my TV, but modern LCD TVs might be a different story... 

Thanks Chris, I just saw your demo at chrismcovell.com/splitres.html

That's so darned cool! 

So the PCE can do it ... it's just a question of getting the timing right. 

touko: Thanks for the suggestion of using this trick to transfer more data to VRAM during vblank ... I'm definitely going to have to play with that. 

[MNKyDeth]

I grabbed the latest version. But will have to get to it tomorrow most likely.

[touko]

I grabbed the latest version. But will have to get to it tomorrow most likely.

No problems, the feedbacks are always welcome.

@elmer: may be you will come to solve my resolution switch problem 

[SmokeMonster]

Incredible work, touko. Have you had a chance to make any more updates to this since your last post?

[touko]

Incredible work, touko. Have you had a chance to make any more updates to this since your last post?

thanks for your interest 

Have you had a chance to make any more updates to this since your last post?

Unfortunately no,because it was designed to be a simple caravan shooter,and adding something would require too many work .
But i started a shmup :

[Galad]

That looks awesome 

[touko]

Thanks, but it's fragmare's pixel arts that look great .

[esteban]

Thanks, but it's fragmare's pixel arts that look great .

The setting is inspired by Aeroblasters/Air Buster.

[touko]

Yes, and the X68000 too 

[ccovell]

I like your graphics and gameplay, and the music might be quite good too, except it is totally drowned out by the non-stop annoying laser shooting sounds that make my hair stand up on end.  Rayxanber II is not a good model to take sound effect cues from.  Could I perhaps suggest the satisfying "ploop ploop" shot sounds from Gate of Thunder?

[touko]

Yes in this demo the sfx are a bit awfull,and volume level is too hight.
They are all redone , and the result is way better now,the problem is the volume difference between mednafen and the hardware and it's hard to find the good compromise.

Could I perhaps suggest the satisfying "ploop ploop" shot sounds from Gate of Thunder?

i don't think that they are particularly good,except adpcm ones,in most cdrom titles the PSG sfx are often really poor and bad .
In GoT i can pick some ones,but they are better sfx to rip in hucard(sorry but i'm not good at making sfx from scratch) .

[shubibiman]

It's not a problme as back in the time, developers could access to an SFX library. There's nothing wrong with picking sfx from existing games

[touko]

It's not a problme as back in the time, developers could access to an SFX library. There's nothing wrong with picking sfx from existing games

thanks shubi for this information, i was a bit (morally speaking) embarrassed to rip some sfx from other games .

[SmokeMonster]

But i started a shmup :

Oh, wow! That looks incredible. I'm happy to live in a world where there could be a new SFX shooter released one day.

[touko]

Thanks, i must redoing the pods rotation because it is not really rounded,and i want to  add a shield effect .

[esteban]

Thanks, i must redoing the pods rotation to be a little bit because it is not really rounded,and i want to  add a shield effect .

I want MOAR of the music. I love how it starts PSG and then goes FULLMUSICMODEDELUXE.

MOAR music.

Thank you in advance.