Donald Trump Thread aka End of Days

[o.pwuaioc]

I think the whole Nazi KKK thing is a nice boogeyman. These groups haven't been relevant or influential in decades. Are they deplorable... Yes. Do they have the right to assemble and espouse their views... Yes.

Yes, but what about the Alt-Left?

Are they deplorable... Yes. Do they have the right to assemble and espouse their views... Yes.

Should they be compared to literal Nazis?  No.  Doing so is false equivalence and normalizes Nazi sympathizers.

One group wants to kill all the Jews and make a whites only nation. 

A second group wants that first group to shut up.

Well the ones that show up toting communist flags and paraphernalia are no better than Nazis in my book. History is littered with the dead from communist regimes.

Just to play devil's advocate here, but the US is also responsible for the massacre of an untold number of Native Americans. Does that mean you are ashamed of the our flag, too?

Surely we can separate ideology (communism, democracy, Naziism) from implementations of those ideologies (USA, USSR), no?

[NecroPhile]

Surely we can separate ideology (communism, democracy, Naziism) from implementations of those ideologies (USA, USSR), no?

If 'Naziism' is a thing, it can't be separated from the Nazis.  You'd have to say Nazis were implementations of nationalism, racisim, sexism, expansionism, and totalitarianism, anti communism / capitalism / religion (some).

[o.pwuaioc]

Surely we can separate ideology (communism, democracy, Naziism) from implementations of those ideologies (USA, USSR), no?

If 'Naziism' is a thing, it can't be separated from the Nazis.  You'd have to say Nazis were implementations of nationalism, racisim, sexism, expansionism, and totalitarianism, anti communism / capitalism / religion (some).

I was thinking specifically "white supremacy", but you're right.

[ToyMachine78]

I think the whole Nazi KKK thing is a nice boogeyman. These groups haven't been relevant or influential in decades. Are they deplorable... Yes. Do they have the right to assemble and espouse their views... Yes.

Yes, but what about the Alt-Left?

Are they deplorable... Yes. Do they have the right to assemble and espouse their views... Yes.

Should they be compared to literal Nazis?  No.  Doing so is false equivalence and normalizes Nazi sympathizers.

One group wants to kill all the Jews and make a whites only nation. 

A second group wants that first group to shut up.

Well the ones that show up toting communist flags and paraphernalia are no better than Nazis in my book. History is littered with the dead from communist regimes.

Just to play devil's advocate here, but the US is also responsible for the massacre of an untold number of Native Americans. Does that mean you are ashamed of the our flag, too?

Surely we can separate ideology (communism, democracy, Naziism) from implementations of those ideologies (USA, USSR), no?

Not a historical footnote to be proud of for sure. I am not ashamed of our country though. 1. I wasn't alive, so why should I bear the guilt? 2. Overall, I feel we have learned from our historical mistakes, and have improved as a country.

Has there ever been a good or successful implementation of communism?It would be easier to separate ideology from implementation if there was at least 1 shining example that it can work.

[o.pwuaioc]

There are plenty of instances of it working on a small scale. The issue becomes one of national policy. You and I may not agree with everything China does, but they're very successful.

[NecroPhile]

Successful but communist in name only.

[o.pwuaioc]

Successful but communist in name only.

It's a mixed system, like every other system. We've also never seen a successful "pure capitalist" society either.

[itsatarp]

The chickenshit can't even use quotes properly.  What a maroon!

Because a lot of illegals are coming through Mexico from other countries. This has been discussed multiple times. Mexico acknowledges Central America is a problem for them and us. Mexico is the gateway. A smart person sees the problem, identifies it, and then works to solve it. That is what's being done. Canada will be a problem soon, but the focus is on the exact problem now. Instead of crying about racism non stop, you should see what things are really about.

It's true that another 20% of illegal immigrants are from central and south american countries, but not all of them come over land through Mexico and cross illegally (many overstay visas or vacation in Canada and head south).  Any way you slice it, more than a third of illegal immigrants are basically being ignored, but I guess they don't matter and aren't possibly a threat because they're not Mexican.... but that's not possibly racist. 

I ignored them because only 1 of them, is actually racist.

One is enough to prove that he's hardly the "least racist person on earth".  Even you now agree he's at least mildly racist, so maybe there's hope for you deplorables yet. 

I won't bother going through each and explaining why they're racist or at least give an appearance of racial bias (the Least Racist Person Evah! would never do things that look even remotely racist), but you're clearly ignorant of Trump's history and don't really understand what racism is anyway.


Trump sure is pissed about McConnell and Ryan not passing legislation.  I guess Trump's too busy flip flopping on Afghanistan and pissing away our tax dollars on the campaign trail and golfing for him to actually help them draft something good.

Oh no's. I messed up quotes!! You, billy bad ass, are one ITG for calling that out! Typical lefty, making something out of nothing and then acting righteous for doing so. Did you check all the spelling too?

Hope for me for what? I don't fear the truth. You don't even know where I stand on most things. I don't think trump is as vile as you and can objectively handle things.

I would prefer you not try to explain all of your logical fallacies, I could get them all from Vox anyways. Keep flying your racism banner over anything you can, it's enjoyable watching the left expose themselves and their intention daily.

[NecroPhile]

A certain dumb cunt still hasn't it figured it out that I'm a right leaning moderate that usually votes Republican.  Guess what chucklefuck - you don't have to be an alt-left communist to disagree with Trump, recognize his lies for what they are, and realize that the piece of shit is accomplishing very little while further dividing the country.

[o.pwuaioc]

Oh no's. I messed up quotes!! You, billy bad ass, are one ITG for calling that out! Typical lefty, making something out of nothing and then acting righteous for doing so. Did you check all the spelling too?

Hope for me for what? I don't fear the truth. You don't even know where I stand on most things. I don't think trump is as vile as you and can objectively handle things.

I would prefer you not try to explain all of your logical fallacies, I could get them all from Vox anyways. Keep flying your racism banner over anything you can, it's enjoyable watching the left expose themselves and their intention daily.

I love this. "Ha! You don't even know me. That's why I refuse to engage with you any more. I win!" It's how you know someone isn't even serious about debating, they only want to argue and insult.

It was a trap all along.

[itsatarp]

Oh no's. I messed up quotes!! You, billy bad ass, are one ITG for calling that out! Typical lefty, making something out of nothing and then acting righteous for doing so. Did you check all the spelling too?

Hope for me for what? I don't fear the truth. You don't even know where I stand on most things. I don't think trump is as vile as you and can objectively handle things.

I would prefer you not try to explain all of your logical fallacies, I could get them all from Vox anyways. Keep flying your racism banner over anything you can, it's enjoyable watching the left expose themselves and their intention daily.

I love this. "Ha! You don't even know me. That's why I refuse to engage with you any more. I win!" It's how you know someone isn't even serious about debating, they only want to argue and insult.

It was a trap all along.

. Read it again. He claimed I was chicken shit for not answering, when I did, he said he had no need to respond because ya know, he has to be right. And I was thankful to not see him stretch to make explanations. So yea, you got it pretty wrong. That was your boys play.

[itsatarp]

A certain dumb cunt still hasn't it figured it out that I'm a right leaning moderate that usually votes Republican.  Guess what chucklefuck - you don't have to be an alt-left communist to disagree with Trump, recognize his lies for what they are, and realize that the piece of shit is accomplishing very little while further dividing the country.

Wooohooo, dumb cunt!! Chucklefuck!! Brilliant. Dude, you are the most bad ass keyboard commando on any video game forum ever. Holy shit, we got a Turbo Rambo up in this bitch!

And you haven't figured out I am straight down the middle. I like facts, not stretching of the truth. I don't like either the left or right. But I can say even though Obama was a useless piece of crap that damaged the world, he was a great speaker. But, OTOH, I see what trump wants to do with immigration, small business, big business, Military, tax cuts, the joke of the ACA, controlling the EPA as all great things. And on all of them, he has at least not forgotten that he would try to improve all of those. Some of them, actually have been done.The useless congressman are the swamp, in both parties, and that is where all of the problems begin.

[turboswimbz]

And you haven't figured out I am straight down the middle. I like facts, not stretching of the truth. I don't like either the left or right. But I can say even though Obama was a useless piece of crap that damaged the world...

Lol... Yeah, you sound straight down the middle.

douche |----------------X----------------| retard

ahhh the old Nulltard meter.  I wonder what old MR. Jermery has to say on the topic . . .

[itsatarp]

And you haven't figured out I am straight down the middle. I like facts, not stretching of the truth. I don't like either the left or right. But I can say even though Obama was a useless piece of crap that damaged the world...

Lol... Yeah, you sound straight down the middle.

douche |----------------X----------------| retard

I've been beat with experience I guess

[NecroPhile]

Enter keys and message breaks are for suckers.  Keep double posting like a boss. 

Read it again. He claimed I was chicken shit for not answering, when I did, he said he had no need to respond because ya know, he has to be right. And I was thankful to not see him stretch to make explanations. So yea, you got it pretty wrong. That was your boys play.

The "chickenshit" thing was mirroring your own comments.  Like your typical Trumptard POS, you're a giant hypocrite calling out others for shit you're doing yourself (including the use of vulgar insults and name calling).

As for me not explaining why each of those instances is racist, what's the point of arguing with someone that doesn't even understand the definition of racism?  If your stance is that racial stereotypes and racial profiling aren't racist, you can't be reasoned with.  Besides, those points were refuting your foolish claim that Trump was never accused of being racist until recently; whether they prove he's racist or not, you're dead wrong on that score.

Wooohooo, dumb cunt!! Chucklefuck!! Brilliant. Dude, you are the most bad ass keyboard commando on any video game forum ever. Holy shit, we got a Turbo Rambo up in this bitch!

Welcome to Fighting Street, bitch.

And you haven't figured out I am straight down the middle.

Nor do I care.  I've labeled you as a moron and a Trump apologist not as an alt-right neocon.

I like facts, not stretching of the truth.

And yet you love Trump, the guy that lies and stretches the truth like nobody else.  You must mean you like alternate facts. 

I don't like either the left or right. But I can say even though Obama was a useless piece of crap that damaged the world, he was a great speaker. But, OTOH, I see what trump wants to do with immigration, small business, big business, Military, tax cuts, the joke of the ACA, controlling the EPA as all great things. And on all of them, he has at least not forgotten that he would try to improve all of those. Some of them, actually have been done.

I agree with wanting to fix all those things, but I disagree with most of his implementations, or lack thereof in some cases.

Immigration:  Hiring more border agents is good, but even the agents say the wall is dumb.  It'll cost billions and trample the rights of land owners and ultimately do nothing; they'll go over/under it, cross at roads/rails, enter through waterways, etc. anyway.  Deportations of some immigrants is also good, but I see no good in deporting law abiding people that work, pay property taxes, etc.  Why not allow them to stay and become US citizens after they've lived here for decades, been schooled, had kids, etc.?

Big/Small Business:  Is there anything specific to businesses that's not a part of other issues listed here?  Maybe his plans to relax rules on banks, but that's another mixed bag: small banks could use relief and they weren't part of the original problem, but I disagree 100% with getting rid of the rules altogether and giving the big banks a free ride.  Or maybe pulling out of trade agreements, but those again help as much as they hurt.

Military:  We shouldn't have to spend more to have a robust military; we already spend far more than any other country, so why are we ill equipped and unprepared?  No other army is of comparable size, has as advanced equipment, and spends more time on training; the problem is how the money is spent on things not needed, so more money isn't the answer.  Also, he's flip-flopped on getting us more involved in other countries' affairs, the transgender ban has hurt recruitment and retainment (admittedly not substantially), and proposed welfare program cuts hurt lots of vets.

Taxes:  Simplifying taxes would benefit everyone, but the tax cuts benefit mostly the wealthy and will increase our debt substantially - all economists agree that Trump's claim that economic growth would offset his tax cuts is a pipe dream.

Healthcare:  He's undermined ACA with uncertainty, has jackshit for a replacement program, and hasn't really helped congress with crafting a proposal that anyone likes.

EPA:  Pulling out of the paris agreement means nothing, as it won't happen for four years and there were no penalties for not meeting goals.  I agree that the EPA has gone too far in a few cases, I guess, but that doesn't warrant undoing everything they've done.

The useless congressman are the swamp, in both parties, and that is where all of the problems begin.

I agree that congress sucks, but Trump is just making it worse.  Like 'em or not, he must work with Congress to pass legislation; bitching, name calling, and constant threats of fighting their re-election bids won't forward your agenda.

[o.pwuaioc]

And now Joe Arpaio...

[itsatarp]

Enter keys and message breaks are for suckers.  Keep double posting like a boss. 

The "chickenshit" thing was mirroring your own comments.  Like your typical Trumptard POS, you're a giant hypocrite calling out others for shit you're doing yourself (including the use of vulgar insults and name calling).

As for me not explaining why each of those instances is racist, what's the point of arguing with someone that doesn't even understand the definition of racism?  If your stance is that racial stereotypes and racial profiling aren't racist, you can't be reasoned with.  Besides, those points were refuting your foolish claim that Trump was never accused of being racist until recently; whether they prove he's racist or not, you're dead wrong on that score.

I understand clearly what racism is. It doesn't include things that have been said that someone doesn't like or is sensitive to, by a person of a different race. Trying to connect dots that can't be connected unless you fill in a lot of blanks, read between the lines, or redefine the description you are trying to use, doesn't make it true. And you are 100% correct, Trump was accused of it before, doesn't make it true.

Welcome to Fighting Street, bitch.

Not impressed. I go to many 100% unmoderated forums. If somebody used the word chucklefuck, the abuse would be relentless. I guess on here it may be as cool as collectard, but it's difficult not to imagine some creepy dude who gets overly excited when they look at anime girls using a word like that. But what do I know.

I don't care what anyone has called me. It's the mob mentality here. It's the only thing that keeps this place somewhat relevant. You guys all do the same shit to any individual that doesn't contribute any value to the mob or doesn't adhere to that mentality anywhere on this forum. You guys have your tongues so far up each other asses that I'm sure you carve your initials in tomorrows turds daily. You do it all the time. Should I watch what I say to them? Lol, ok. Look how vile the mob gets over cardboard boxes. The standards are really low here, I can meet them.

Nor do I care.  I've labeled you as a moron and a Trump apologist not as an alt-right neocon.

Nor do I care. Like above, just because it's said, doesn't mean it is. Few people hold significance to me, someone talking about collectards chucklefucks wouldn't get near that list. At least we are clear on that.

And yet you love Trump, the guy that lies and stretches the truth like nobody else.  You must mean you like alternate facts. 

Lol, I didn't even vote for him. But yup, I like him. He has ideas, he has the constitution front and center, he loves this country. He isn't telling all of us to be ashamed to be something and that it's ok to be the best country, not an equal country. He wants laws upheld. No matter what a douche he may be, those are convictions I admire. I don't need to be ashamed or apologetic for that.

I agree with wanting to fix all those things, but I disagree with most of his implementations, or lack thereof in some cases.

Immigration:  Hiring more border agents is good, but even the agents say the wall is dumb.  It'll cost billions and trample the rights of land owners and ultimately do nothing; they'll go over/under it, cross at roads/rails, enter through waterways, etc. anyway.  Deportations of some immigrants is also good, but I see no good in deporting law abiding people that work, pay property taxes, etc.  Why not allow them to stay and become US citizens after they've lived here for decades, been schooled, had kids, etc.?

I have no opinion on the wall, but securing the borders is crucial. I disagree on deporting law abiding people that have been here. I am sure your family, my family, everyone on this forums has some family I am sure that came over her and got citizenship the hard way, but legal and required way. If you have been here for years to work, pay taxes, etc but did not respect the legal citizens, or ancestors, or the laws of this country in all of those years by taking the necessary steps to be a legal citizen, then you should be deported. To be fair, in those cases, which I believe would be considered dreamers, it could be an expedited or simplified process. But, from here on out, you can't do it the right way, adios.

Big/Small Business:  Is there anything specific to businesses that's not a part of other issues listed here?  Maybe his plans to relax rules on banks, but that's another mixed bag: small banks could use relief and they weren't part of the original problem, but I disagree 100% with getting rid of the rules altogether and giving the big banks a free ride.  Or maybe pulling out of trade agreements, but those again help as much as they hurt.

Sure. EPA regulations is a big one, ACA, replacement would be another huge one, and giving businesses tax breaks/incentives will really help. I recall reading about different/more loans being available to people. While that isn't technically a Trump plan, his goal was to actually see they are put in place.

Military:  We shouldn't have to spend more to have a robust military; we already spend far more than any other country, so why are we ill equipped and unprepared?  No other army is of comparable size, has as advanced equipment, and spends more time on training; the problem is how the money is spent on things not needed, so more money isn't the answer.  Also, he's flip-flopped on getting us more involved in other countries' affairs, the transgender ban has hurt recruitment and retainment (admittedly not substantially), and proposed welfare program cuts hurt lots of vets.

I was not thrilled with the MOAB thing. I get why it was done but I was disappointed that he didn't adhere to his words of no involvement. But, seeing kids gassed is shitty and kind of ties into to why denounce if you don't do anything about it? Excellent point about ill equipped. That was my main reason for pointing out his military ideas. We are in a different era of warfare, money will be needed to advance that, but frivolous spending needs to be done already. I don't care about transgenders. The wants of a few should not outweigh what is in the best interest for the majority. If the heads of the military branches are seeing them as distractions or causing unnecessary issues, kick them out. They can still do great things in the civilian world. He is on the Vets side, finally, someone is. I am not concerned with this aspect. He will try to do the right thing.

Taxes:  Simplifying taxes would benefit everyone, but the tax cuts benefit mostly the wealthy and will increase our debt substantially - all economists agree that Trump's claim that economic growth would offset his tax cuts is a pipe dream.

Tax cuts will always benefit those who pay the most, the wealthy. I think he understands the needs for it for the middle class. In the business world, his offsets can work, but I agree, I don't see it happening as an offset.

Healthcare:  He's undermined ACA with uncertainty, has jackshit for a replacement program, and hasn't really helped congress with crafting a proposal that anyone likes.

This isn't on him at all. This is the useless republicans doing nothing. Then the democrats unwillingness to do anything at all to work with anything. Not 1 of them, either side, has American citizens in their best interest. This is about resisting, party voting and generally being useless at their jobs. If they worked anywhere else, they would be unemployed in 1 day tops. ACA has been a burden. I don't think people that don't 100% pay for their own insurance understand that, or the poor who pay nothing for it. Believe me, the ones that do have the burden of it, are screwed.

EPA:  Pulling out of the paris agreement means nothing, as it won't happen for four years and there were no penalties for not meeting goals.  I agree that the EPA has gone too far in a few cases, I guess, but that doesn't warrant undoing everything they've done.

They haven't done anything except use politics to determine science to enact unreasonable, costly, non sense laws. And destroy many industries we used to have in this country. Why do they even get to make their own laws? They were left unchecked and unlimited funding for far too long. Paris agreement was a joke and a great step to keep the Promise of America first. We need coal, we need fossil fuels, we can do that in conjunction with using and evolving green energy. It isn't one or the other, because we can have it all.

I agree that congress sucks, but Trump is just making it worse.  Like 'em or not, he must work with Congress to pass legislation; bitching, name calling, and constant threats of fighting their re-election bids won't forward your agenda.

We both know the Democrats will not work with him at all. Who doesn't like a good call out? You have enjoyed calling me out, I enjoy calling people out, and I think it's cool he does it. I don't think he does it enough. Call the deadbeats out for taking tax payer money and not working for the tax payer. Call them out for hurting all of us. If he already knows they will fight him tooth and nail every step, what does he have to lose? He is a fan of term limits, which would majorly help these exact problems, but how will he ever get these lumps to vote themselves out of life long leeching?

[Gredler]

Nazis are bad

[esteban]

UPDATE: I guess it goes without saying that an administration answering to Pence is just as horrific, to me, as the current one.

Just saying.

YOU MAY RESUME.

[NoSexGex]

Few people hold significance to me

dat edge

[BlueBMW]

What happened to our old resident nazi xray?  He made cool signs...

[NecroPhile]

Heh, more fucked up quotes.  It's hard to get even the simple things right when you're a complete retard.

I understand clearly what racism is. It doesn't include things that have been said that someone doesn't like or is sensitive to, by a person of a different race. Trying to connect dots that can't be connected unless you fill in a lot of blanks, read between the lines, or redefine the description you are trying to use, doesn't make it true.

"Black people love fried chicken!"

That's not racist at all, right? 

And you are 100% correct, Trump was accused of it before, doesn't make it true.

Hey, another admission that you were wrong.  Good for you!  It may take a few decades, but you might yet crawl out of that basket.

Not impressed. I go to many 100% unmoderated forums. If somebody used the word chucklefuck, the abuse would be relentless. I guess on here it may be as cool as collectard, but it's difficult not to imagine some creepy dude who gets overly excited when they look at anime girls using a word like that. But what do I know.

I don't care what anyone has called me. It's the mob mentality here. It's the only thing that keeps this place somewhat relevant. You guys all do the same shit to any individual that doesn't contribute any value to the mob or doesn't adhere to that mentality anywhere on this forum. You guys have your tongues so far up each other asses that I'm sure you carve your initials in tomorrows turds daily. You do it all the time. Should I watch what I say to them? Lol, ok. Look how vile the mob gets over cardboard boxes. The standards are really low here, I can meet them.

.....

Nor do I care. Like above, just because it's said, doesn't mean it is. Few people hold significance to me, someone talking about collectards chucklefucks wouldn't get near that list. At least we are clear on that.

People that don't care don't have to say they don't care over and over and over again.  Are you hoping if you say it enough times it'll be true?

Lol, I didn't even vote for him. But yup, I like him. He has ideas....

But too bad most of 'em are just basic ideas with no details on how they'll work or how to make them happen.

He has the constitution front and center....

But not to follow and defend it.  He's demonstrated contempt for the constitution repeatedly: threatening the freedom of the press, attacking the independence of the judicial branch, ignoring the emoluments clause, coercing cities and states to enforce federal immigration laws, obstructing justice, wanting to remove birthright citizenship, seizing foreign held monies, etc.

He loves this country....

I'd argue he only loves the parts of it that align with his goals, but close enough?

He isn't telling all of us to be ashamed to be something....

Unless you're a white supremacist, antifa, mexican, an unattractive woman, a prisoner of war, a better business man than him, or simply disagree with Trump.

And that it's ok to be the best country, not an equal country....

Who's ever argued otherwise?  Understanding fair trade and the realities of a global market does not mean that you're anti-America.

He wants laws upheld....

Unless he disagrees with them, then he'll try to get the prosecutors to back off and then pardon the criminal before he's even been sentenced when they ignore him.

No matter what a douche he may be, those are convictions I admire. I don't need to be ashamed or apologetic for that.

You need to buy a dictionary.  A conviction is a firmly held belief, not a whim to apply only when convenient.

We both know the Democrats will not work with him at all. Who doesn't like a good call out? You have enjoyed calling me out, I enjoy calling people out, and I think it's cool he does it. I don't think he does it enough. Call the deadbeats out for taking tax payer money and not working for the tax payer. Call them out for hurting all of us. If he already knows they will fight him tooth and nail every step, what does he have to lose? He is a fan of term limits, which would majorly help these exact problems, but how will he ever get these lumps to vote themselves out of life long leeching?

He's attacking both sides of the aisle, dumbfuck.  Try paying attention and maybe you won't look like such a fool.

Like I said, Trump must work with Congress to pass legislation and make lasting changes.  Don't try to act like it doesn't matter, no different than you and me bitching at each other, as if either of us needs the other to ever do anything for them.

What happened to our old resident nazi xray?  He made cool signs...

He changed his name to itsatarp. 

[Gredler]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndddddddddddd



Nazis.

[OldRover]

Fuck nazis. Fuck Antifa. Fuck Trump. Fuck all supremacists, no matter what color or gender they represent. Launch each and every one of them into the fucking sun. It'll keep the sun going for an extra 1000 years or so.

[TheClash603]

The Sun = Yellow Supremacist

[NecroPhile]

I'm a robot supremacist.  None of you meatbags can beat my golden fiddle skillz.

[ToyMachine78]

Fuck nazis. Fuck Antifa. Fuck Trump. Fuck all supremacists, no matter what color or gender they represent. Launch each and every one of them into the fucking sun. It'll keep the sun going for an extra 1000 years or so.

He'll yeah! This!

[o.pwuaioc]

Not that I support them, but antifa is not in the same category. They're not even a unified group. They're just people who want to stop fascism. The entire American military during WWII was "antifa", as we used violence to stop fascism.

While I don't agree with those who disrupt conservative or even Nazi talks, for example, at rallies anyone can tell you that the right in recent years has come fully armed and also ready to battle, so antifa is just meeting them on the same turf.

I kinda wish we still allowed gladiatorial combats so these Nazis and other groups can just duke it out there.

[NecroPhile]

Trump is now standing in a puddle acting like a president -- give me a break.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I like how they are pointing out that none of his tweets address that people are drowning lol.

just 'oh man this is alot of water oh man we got alot of good people doing work here oh man were good'

[LostFlunky]

'What a crowd, what a turnout!'

[OldRover]

To be fair, it was Antifa who started the violence. The right-wingers are now coming armed because they already know that they will have to defend themselves against these thugs. It's pathetic that this is what it's come to... having to arm yourselves just to express your freedom of assembly. The great irony is that Antifa is fighting fascism... with fascism.

[o.pwuaioc]

While I don't agree with those who disrupt conservative or even Nazi talks, for example, at rallies anyone can tell you that the right in recent years has come fully armed and also ready to battle, so antifa is just meeting them on the same turf.

To be fair, it was Antifa who started the violence. The right-wingers are now coming armed because they already know that they will have to defend themselves against these thugs. It's pathetic that this is what it's come to... having to arm yourselves just to express your freedom of assembly. The great irony is that Antifa is fighting fascism... with fascism.

Right-wingers were coming armed even before the Tea Party, where it accelerated after Obama's election. Antifa in the US post-dates was a reaction against that. They most certainly did not start the violence, and any measurement of right-wing v. left-wing violence in the past twenty years (and probably more) show a radically disproportionate number of terrorist acts by right-wing groups as compared to left-wing ones.

They're not the good guys, but there's a patently false history being told about them by the right.

[OldRover]

Nah, Antifa's been around way longer than that. The only reason people are just finding out about them now is because the media is lionizing them, giving them tons of press. Most people hadn't even heard of them prior to the Charlotte incident. These violent clashes between right-wing extremists and left-wing extremists have been going on for decades, just no one ever noticed unless they were directly involved. The media has latched onto this because they needed something new to sensationalize, like usual. While it is true that right-wing violence is more prevalent than left-wing violence, neither can be overlooked or justified. Violence is violence and it doesn't matter who you are or what side you represent when you do it. To me, Antifa is just as shitty as these f*cking neonazis. We need more people like Daryl Davis in this country.

[o.pwuaioc]

Right-wingers were coming armed even before the Tea Party, where it accelerated after Obama's election. Antifa in the US post-dates was a reaction against that. They most certainly did not start the violence, and any measurement of right-wing v. left-wing violence in the past twenty years (and probably more) show a radically disproportionate number of terrorist acts by right-wing groups as compared to left-wing ones.

They're not the good guys, but there's a patently false history being told about them by the right.

Nah dude, Antifa's been around way longer than that. The only reason people are just finding out about them now is because the media is lionizing them, giving them tons of press. Most people hadn't even heard of them prior to the Charlotte incident. These violent clashes between right-wing extremists and left-wing extremists have been going on for decades, just no one ever noticed unless they were directly involved. The media has latched onto this because they needed something new to sensationalize, like usual. While it is true that right-wing violence is more prevalent than left-wing violence, neither can be overlooked or justified. Violence is violence and it doesn't matter who you are or what side you represent when you do it. To me, Antifa is just as shitty as these fucking neonazis. We need more people like Daryl Davis in this country.

I'm aware that lefty extremists have been around for a very long time, but that doesn't make them "antifa."

I will say restate (third time now, I think) that I do not condone their actions, violence to stop violence is much, much better morally than violence to oppress. Otherwise might as well be a pacifist, which I'm most certainly not. Let the tree-huggers preach peace, but I'm aware that "bad actors" (as the Republican refrain goes) are out there and want me dead. Orlando, Nice, London, 9/11, North Korea, Spain, it's pretty clear that, even when our actions contribute to it, they would try to harm us anyway.

Nazis are as bad as ISIS. Antifa, when used for the purpose of fighting fascism, are just wrongheaded; when used to silence the exercise of free speech, that's when I consider them just as bad. It's a fine line, but a line is definitely there.

[Emerald Rocker]

I like how they are pointing out that none of his tweets address that people are drowning lol.

just 'oh man this is alot of water oh man we got alot of good people doing work here oh man were good'

Yep, he's doing it right.  He's passing along relevant information and giving people confidence that things are going to turn out okay in the end.  This is the time for action and inspiration.  Mourning and reflection can -- and should -- come later.

[Arkhan Asylum]

and probably wont

[o.pwuaioc]

and probably wont

Probably won't? When did you become an optimist. It never will.

[Emerald Rocker]

and probably wont

And if he does, you'll never admit you were wrong.  I'm not playing the prediction game with you.  Right now, he's behaving like a can-do President.  That's a good thing.  This storm is a major disaster; let's hope for the best and not get hung up on whether he delivers the speech that we wrote in our own heads.

By the way MrBroadway, I appreciate your well-explained and nuanced view of Antifa.  Thank you for that.  I personally believe that our best defense against fascism taking root in the US is to protect the first amendment for everyone, even the worst of us.  What we're unfortunately seeing right now is that it's very easy for people with political agendas to lump normal folks in with the cretins (white supremacists).  Thankfully some newspapers and politicians are starting to say enough's enough.

I don't really have anything else to say on that topic.

[Arkhan Asylum]

And if he does, you'll never admit you were wrong.  I'm not playing the prediction game with you.

I already admitted I was wrong when he suddenly decided he supported gays.

but I am not sure if he actually does at this point. 

At least he's trying.

[Emerald Rocker]

Sorry, I shouldn't have made negative assumptions about you.  Thanks for correcting me.  My bad.

[Arkhan Asylum]

kiss me

[NecroPhile]

Lots of flip flopping, double speak, and misleading alternate facts in Trump's tax plan speech, but no surprise there.  Nor am I surprised that there's few details of exactly what the tax plan entails.

- Brag about quarterly GDP growth of 3% because Obama never had that!  It's only true if you look at Obama's annual averages, as he had several quarters of equal or far better growth, but who's counting?

- Jerk off to Reagan's tax plan, even though you'd always said before that it was an "absolute catastrophe", causing the S&L problems and recession of '90-'91.  It'll work this time, trust me.  Bigly.

- Bitch about corporate tax rates and claim that they're 60% higher than the rest of the world, completely ignoring the effective rate (after including deductions and tax breaks) being roughly equal to what companies pay in competing countries.

- Double the amount of profits held overseas and refuse to back up your estimates with a source.  Bigger is better, dammit!

[seieienbu]

Trickle down economics doesn't work.  Giving a tax break to people who already hide money in foreign banks gives them more money to hide in foreign banks.  Raising taxes on the super rich and on corporations can allow the government to spend money and put it in the hands of Americans like teachers, construction workers, soldiers, police, etc.

We can have better education, infrastructure, and defense or the multi billionaires can add more zeroes to their bank accounts.  I think one idea is better than the other but maybe I'm not being fair to the multi billionaires and should put myself in their shoes before arguing over the internet about taxation.

[RyuHayabusa]

Trickle down economics doesn't work.  Giving a tax break to people who already hide money in foreign banks gives them more money to hide in foreign banks.  Raising taxes on the super rich and on corporations can allow the government to spend money and put it in the hands of Americans like teachers, construction workers, soldiers, police, etc.

We can have better education, infrastructure, and defense or the multi billionaires can add more zeroes to their bank accounts.  I think one idea is better than the other but maybe I'm not being fair to the multi billionaires and should put myself in their shoes before arguing over the internet about taxation.

Bullshit. "Trickle down economics" is the ONLY system that works. Industry creates wealth. Industry creates jobs. The government doesn't create wealth, it only takes wealth. As much as you might not like corporations like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Home Depot or whatever, they provide millions of jobs and service millions of people. As we're seeing in so many socialist countries in Western Europe where social programs and high taxation have stalled their economies and lead them to financial ruin, the same thing has happened to the United States. The rich already pay the majority of taxes while half of Americans pay no federal taxes and often receive more in benefits than they've ever paid in. In case you haven't noticed the government receives trillions of dollars in tax revenue and still our infrastructure and education systems are crap. The government could confiscate all the wealth of all the billionaires and they'd still blow it. Now, I'm all for closing loopholes used to avoid paying taxes but this whole "fair share" stuff is bullshit. We have millions of people fucking their lives up, flunking school, having kids they can't afford, get fucked up on drugs, etc etc etc and the American taxpayer is expected to take care of them, not to mention the illegal immigrants competing for low wage jobs, burdening the education system, receiving benefits that they shouldn't be eligible for, etc. We already spend a substantial amount of the budget on countless government programs and we're headed over the cliff with ballooning Social Security costs. What was meant to be safety net programs have become a way of life for millions and we're pretty much screwed because of it.

Lastly, the whole idea behind lowering the corporate tax rates is to make America more competitive with other companies like South Korea, China, and Japan. So many jobs have been sent elsewhere because it's cheaper for corporations to make their products in other countries and import them back to the US. Whereas our current rate is 38%, with the effective rate being about 25% after deductions, many other companies are much lower. With a lower tax rate here in the US companies will keep jobs here and possibly bring them back here. That means more jobs for Americans, more expenditures by corporations, more competition and hopefully better wages. As Margaret Thatcher famously said, "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." That's what is happening across Western Europe and here in the US as well. The left loves to portray rich people as the devil, at least corporate rich people but not celebrities. Are there abuses? Yes, and they need to be changed but capitalism is the most successful economic system the world has ever known and provided the most good for the greatest amount of people.

[ToyMachine78]

Trickle down economics doesn't work.  Giving a tax break to people who already hide money in foreign banks gives them more money to hide in foreign banks.  Raising taxes on the super rich and on corporations can allow the government to spend money and put it in the hands of Americans like teachers, construction workers, soldiers, police, etc.

We can have better education, infrastructure, and defense or the multi billionaires can add more zeroes to their bank accounts.  I think one idea is better than the other but maybe I'm not being fair to the multi billionaires and should put myself in their shoes before arguing over the internet about taxation.

Bullshit. "Trickle down economics" is the ONLY system that works. Industry creates wealth. Industry creates jobs. The government doesn't create wealth, it only takes wealth. As much as you might not like corporations like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Home Depot or whatever, they provide millions of jobs and service millions of people. As we're seeing in so many socialist countries in Western Europe where social programs and high taxation have stalled their economies and lead them to financial ruin, the same thing has happened to the United States. The rich already pay the majority of taxes while half of Americans pay no federal taxes and often receive more in benefits than they've ever paid in. In case you haven't noticed the government receives trillions of dollars in tax revenue and still our infrastructure and education systems are crap. The government could confiscate all the wealth of all the billionaires and they'd still blow it. Now, I'm all for closing loopholes used to avoid paying taxes but this whole "fair share" stuff is bullshit. We have millions of people fucking their lives up, flunking school, having kids they can't afford, get fucked up on drugs, etc etc etc and the American taxpayer is expected to take care of them, not to mention the illegal immigrants competing for low wage jobs, burdening the education system, receiving benefits that they shouldn't be eligible for, etc. We already spend a substantial amount of the budget on countless government programs and we're headed over the cliff with ballooning Social Security costs. What was meant to be safety net programs have become a way of life for millions and we're pretty much screwed because of it.

Lastly, the whole idea behind lowering the corporate tax rates is to make America more competitive with other companies like South Korea, China, and Japan. So many jobs have been sent elsewhere because it's cheaper for corporations to make their products in other countries and import them back to the US. Whereas our current rate is 38%, with the effective rate being about 25% after deductions, many other companies are much lower. With a lower tax rate here in the US companies will keep jobs here and possibly bring them back here. That means more jobs for Americans, more expenditures by corporations, more competition and hopefully better wages. As Margaret Thatcher famously said, "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." That's what is happening across Western Europe and here in the US as well. The left loves to portray rich people as the devil, at least corporate rich people but not celebrities. Are there abuses? Yes, and they need to be changed but capitalism is the most successful economic system the world has ever known and provided the most good for the greatest amount of people.

God damn! Ha-dou-ken!!!

[OldRover]

Wow, yet another corporate apologist blaming the general population... classic.

[Dicer]

Trickle down economics doesn't work.  Giving a tax break to people who already hide money in foreign banks gives them more money to hide in foreign banks.  Raising taxes on the super rich and on corporations can allow the government to spend money and put it in the hands of Americans like teachers, construction workers, soldiers, police, etc.

We can have better education, infrastructure, and defense or the multi billionaires can add more zeroes to their bank accounts.  I think one idea is better than the other but maybe I'm not being fair to the multi billionaires and should put myself in their shoes before arguing over the internet about taxation.

Bullshit. "Trickle down economics" is the ONLY system that works. Industry creates wealth. Industry creates jobs. The government doesn't create wealth, it only takes wealth. As much as you might not like corporations like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Home Depot or whatever, they provide millions of jobs and service millions of people. As we're seeing in so many socialist countries in Western Europe where social programs and high taxation have stalled their economies and lead them to financial ruin, the same thing has happened to the United States. The rich already pay the majority of taxes while half of Americans pay no federal taxes and often receive more in benefits than they've ever paid in. In case you haven't noticed the government receives trillions of dollars in tax revenue and still our infrastructure and education systems are crap. The government could confiscate all the wealth of all the billionaires and they'd still blow it. Now, I'm all for closing loopholes used to avoid paying taxes but this whole "fair share" stuff is bullshit. We have millions of people fucking their lives up, flunking school, having kids they can't afford, get fucked up on drugs, etc etc etc and the American taxpayer is expected to take care of them, not to mention the illegal immigrants competing for low wage jobs, burdening the education system, receiving benefits that they shouldn't be eligible for, etc. We already spend a substantial amount of the budget on countless government programs and we're headed over the cliff with ballooning Social Security costs. What was meant to be safety net programs have become a way of life for millions and we're pretty much screwed because of it.

Lastly, the whole idea behind lowering the corporate tax rates is to make America more competitive with other companies like South Korea, China, and Japan. So many jobs have been sent elsewhere because it's cheaper for corporations to make their products in other countries and import them back to the US. Whereas our current rate is 38%, with the effective rate being about 25% after deductions, many other companies are much lower. With a lower tax rate here in the US companies will keep jobs here and possibly bring them back here. That means more jobs for Americans, more expenditures by corporations, more competition and hopefully better wages. As Margaret Thatcher famously said, "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." That's what is happening across Western Europe and here in the US as well. The left loves to portray rich people as the devil, at least corporate rich people but not celebrities. Are there abuses? Yes, and they need to be changed but capitalism is the most successful economic system the world has ever known and provided the most good for the greatest amount of people.

...Bwhahahaha

Wow I needed a good laugh.

The only time "trickle down" might work is when it actually trickles down and doesn't get siphoned back off before it get's anywhere...the ones at the top have little interest helping anyone below them, outside of "use them bootstraps" bullshit. The rich make the rules and make sure the rules are of full benefit to them, please don't tell me you are that blind to how things work in this Country.

[jlued686]

Oh holy shit...that was a giant load, right there. It's hard to know where to begin...

WalMart, McDonalds provide millions of jobs, sure. Millions of jobs that don't pay a living wage and give horseshit benefits, if any at all. You sure you want to hold up the Waltons as your example of how "trickle down economics" works? Are you positive, man? McDonald's? Really?

I'll help you out here: next time you make this argument, maybe use Costco as an example. You know, a company who has a CEO who makes a decent and reasonable living and pays its employees well and gives them good benefits. Don't use two of the most notorious corporations in the country.

Then we move on to the "fuck those poor people and illegal immigrants stealing our jobs" argument. Are there people who abuse the system? Sure as hell there are. Are they to blame for your job losses while those poor, abused CEOs and wealthy are over-taxed, demonized, and forced to send low-paying jobs overseas? Come on, man. Give me a break. They don't send those jobs overseas because they're overtaxed. They send them overseas because they can pay some Chinese kid pennies on the dollar to make their products. Those jobs aren't coming back unless our minimum wage goes away, despite what our Dipshit in Chief says. He's just scapegoating.

The tax rate for corporations are statutory and a really good bit of red herring to dangle in front of suckers willing to believe that the poor and immigrants are to blame for their woes. Corporations use deductions and credits, and wind up paying waaaaay less than 38%. They're not getting their taxes done by an intern at H&R Block, my friend.

Poor, abused corporations. They wanna give jobs to the poor. But the evil government won't let them. And the Walton family are just soooo upset about not being able to pay their employees a living wage. But the evil government won't let them.

Now let's be fair, I've whipped hard to the left to respond to your hard right assertions. But the answer, as always, lies somewhere in the middle. Again, Costco is a great example of capitalism and "trickle down" done right. But you've gotta be reasonable about it. Corporate greed is real, just as entitlement abuse is real. The only difference is that corporate greed costs our country far more than a handful - or even "millions" - of poor people cashing $500 welfare checks every month.

God damn! Ha-dou-ken!!!

Ha! Of course...hook, line, and sinker.

[NecroPhile]

Bullshit. "Trickle down economics" is the ONLY system that works.

If it worked, the wealthiest 1% wouldn't hold such a large (and ever growing) percentage of the nation's wealth, the gap between the top and bottom wage earners wouldn't be widening, and the middle class wouldn't be disappearing.

Industry creates wealth. Industry creates jobs.

Of course they do, but they don't do it for fun or out of the goodness of their hearts; the labor force is based on the minimum number of people needed to do a given job, not net profits.  Look at a list of the most profitable companies (Apple, Google, banks, oil companies, cell providers, and drug makers) and you'll find the same companies on most-profit-per-employee and most-revenue-per-employee lists; the profits go to share holders and company heads, not to hire unnecessary employees or to provide substantially higher than average pay for regular employees.

The government doesn't create wealth, it only takes wealth. As much as you might not like corporations like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Home Depot or whatever, they provide millions of jobs and service millions of people.

Like KD pointed out, you're using examples that pay shit wages and benefits (and are investing in robotics to eliminate more employees) as proof of trickle down economics.  Think first, then type.

As we're seeing in so many socialist countries in Western Europe where social programs and high taxation have stalled their economies and lead them to financial ruin, the same thing has happened to the United States.

I don't know what kind of retarded definition you have for "socialism", but the existence of welfare programs does not mean a country is socialist.  The closest countries to being socialist are the scandinavian ones (Iceland, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway) which have the highest tax rates, true, but they're also at the top for infrastructure quality, life expectancy, equality, health and well being, GDP per person, happiness, and most generous and least corrupt; all while having a lower public debt as a percentage of GDP than the US, Canada, or other western european countries.

Also, Denmark has Legos, and we all know those're fucking awesome.

Lastly, the whole idea behind lowering the corporate tax rates is to make America more competitive with other companies like South Korea, China, and Japan. So many jobs have been sent elsewhere because it's cheaper for corporations to make their products in other countries and import them back to the US. Whereas our current rate is 38%, with the effective rate being about 25% after deductions, many other companies are much lower. With a lower tax rate here in the US companies will keep jobs here and possibly bring them back here.

Taxes and wages in South Korea and Japan aren't all that different than here, but we can't compete with China.  Even with zero corporate taxes, their wages are so low that we'd still be uncompetitive, and it's even worse in countries like India and Sri Lanka.