NEC PC from 1989 which uses the PCE CD rom drive

[kazekirifx]

Hey guys. For those who haven't checked out my PC-88 thread on the Chit Chat board, I want to show you an interesting PC which NEC released in 1989 and which I own. Interestingly enough, this machine can use the same CD drive that the PCE does as a CD rom drive.

I've made a youtube video about it in my ongoing series about games for NEC's old computers "PC-88 Paradise". Your feedback on my humble video would be much appreciated!

[esteban]

Magnificent video. Bravo.



I want to watch it again, but I'll have to wait until after work.

Here is some random feedback:

(1) I love seeing the advertisements with the timeline.

(2) Is that the PC-88/98 mascot? Or was it just part of a specific promotion/marketing campaign? I ask because it has a very similar art-style to the "mascots" for PCE Gekkan Magazine and PCE Dengeki Magazine... so I was trying to figure out if it was simply a "trend" of the 80's (employed by many companies, perhaps even across various industries), or a marketing tactic that only a few companies used. The character design and airbrush(?) aesthetic is very familiar, though.

(3) The moment of glory (no spoilers) was absolutely perfect. PERFECT. Were the sound effects all from Ys? I loved seeing the actual hardware docking (in the future, add some "bonus footage" after the final credits that show the docking from various angles...that is something I was curious to see).

(4) The display for CD player...does that image ever change (blue sky with clouds?)... (for example, pressing SELECT on PCE changes the color palette, holding SELECT down creates a trippy, psychedelic "show"....wondering if PC-8801MC had any hidden goodies in there)

(5) MC = Media Center? Or never really specified?

(6) Major respect for defending the yellowed hardware.



TANGENT RANT, but I don't want this to derail discussion of your awesome video:

Building on #6 above.... There is an odd desire for "purity" in many hobbies, especially ours, and I am torn about it. This Quest for Purity can take many forms...be it "perfect video signal" coupled with a perfect professional monitor...or "perfect plastic" or "perfectly sealed minty fresh" and these folks absolutely do *not* and *should not* represent all of us.  I know that I stated ranting about consoles, bringing up issues that do not pertain the PCs, necessarily, but I am making a general point.

For consoles, I like playing on stock hardware because I want to see/experience what consumers/users actually had... now, sure, I'll upgrade RF--> composite when available, and yes, I'll wipe grease and pen marks off of plastic, and I don't mind when someone chooses then"top of the line" hardware configuration (to maximize ability to play software)... I am not a madman... but, too many people seem averse to having something that looks and feels "used"... or something hat is merely "stock".

In the past I have proposed a tension/antagonism between

(A) Purity of aesthetics vs. (b) Recapturing genuine experience from past

...and while there is certainly overlap between the two, and we all draw lines differently (what  experience are you trying to capture? The frustration? The limitations? Or a "generally average" person's experience?)....

I think that your videos do a great job of helping us appreciate what an "average person" can experience, whilst also including additional information/details on what a "high-end" user (power-user) would have preferred/sought.

BOTTOM LINE: Anyway, I am not saying that I am not curious about having/experiencing the "best of the best"...of course I like this, too. My point is rather that "the best of the best" has never been, nor ever will be my priority or my primary goal when I play games. Recapturing the past is, in general, far more dear to me.

And yes, IMHO, I think it is sad that obtaining "best of the best" seems to be a trend that has only gathered strength over the years...this trend doesn't represent what playing these games is really about. NOTE: I have been looking at RGB modding all my consoles (for years, now, but I'm taking baby steps)....so this is why I said I was "torn" and had mixed feelings....

(7) YOU GOTTA MAKE MOAR....I don't care about waiting. I just want you to know that these videos are deeply appreciated.

[NecroPhile]

Can it use the other CD drive?  Since you can't use that one in a briefcase, I assume not.  I'd be bummed if I'd spent 30,000 yen extra on the drive and only had 4 titles (2 really) to play on it (plus musics), but at least there's bragging rights because it looks so bad ass. 

As for yellowed hardware: keep it the way you want.  It works and that's what matters most.

(3) The moment of glory (no spoilers) was absolutely perfect. PERFECT. Were the sound effects all from Ys? I loved seeing the actual hardware docking (in the future, add some "bonus footage" after the final credits that show the docking from various angles...that is something I was curious to see).

Fuck yeah, that was awesome. 

[kazekirifx]

Can it use the other CD drive?

It can only use the original PCE CD drive. The TG CD drive should work too.

I'd be bummed if I'd spent 30,000 yen extra on the drive and only had 4 titles (2 really) to play on it (plus musics)

Yeah. No kidding. But I guess software developers were not interested in developing PC-88 games in a format that only a small portion of the userbase had a drive for. Guess that's just how the cookie crumbles.

[Psycho Punch]

I remember vaguely that the Game Preservation Society had a uber rare PC88MC CD game... doesn't seem like the CD option was popular at all, or at least that's the impression I have given the # of CD games... do you know how many floppy games use CD audio as a bonus?

loosely related tangent: Nobunaga's Ambition on the PC Engine uses chiptunes but weirdly has beautiful orchestra renditions of the classic themes on the very same CD. I wonder if there's a version of the game for the PC88 that can play the music off the PC Engine disc haha.

[SignOfZeta]

(2) Is that the PC-88/98 mascot? Or was it just part of a specific promotion/marketing campaign? I ask because it has a very similar art-style to the "mascots" for PCE Gekkan Magazine and PCE Dengeki Magazine... so I was trying to figure out if it was simply a "trend" of the 80's (employed by many companies, perhaps even across various industries), or a marketing tactic that only a few companies used. The character design and airbrush(?) aesthetic...

I can't believe you don't know this guy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susumu_Matsushita

I mean, obviously you've known him for decades, but not that he was a guy.

Something similar happened recently with me and songwriter Paul Williams who I always thought was just the creepy Little Enos from Smokey and the Bandit but holy shit it turns out, looking at his list of credits, that he's responsible for a large part of my favorite early childhood memories. Whoops. Also he's on the latest Daft Punk album...

[esteban]

(2) Is that the PC-88/98 mascot? Or was it just part of a specific promotion/marketing campaign? I ask because it has a very similar art-style to the "mascots" for PCE Gekkan Magazine and PCE Dengeki Magazine... so I was trying to figure out if it was simply a "trend" of the 80's (employed by many companies, perhaps even across various industries), or a marketing tactic that only a few companies used. The character design and airbrush(?) aesthetic...

I can't believe you don't know this guy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susumu_Matsushita

I mean, obviously you've known him for decades, but not that he was a guy.

Something similar happened recently with me and songwriter Paul Williams who I always thought was just the creepy Little Enos from Smokey and the Bandit but holy shit it turns out, looking at his list of credits, that he's responsible for a large part of my favorite early childhood memories. Whoops. Also he's on the latest Daft Punk album...

Hahahahhahahahha! Nope, that's brand new name for me.

Thanks.



Believe me, I am very spotty in my knowledge of personalities. I am continuously surprised to learn that Mr. or Mrs. X who worked on ______ was also was involved with  ________.

[MisterCrash]

I'd seen that little furry guy before on a music CD:

http://vgmdb.net/album/10427

I wasn't aware of other similar artwork by the same artist. Good to know.

[kazekirifx]

OK. Let me answer some of these wonderful replies I'm getting here.

First of all, Esteban, I'll paste the response I put on youtube, then also respond to your additions.

(2) He seems to be the PC-88 mascot used in the late 80's. He appears in a lot of ads for the PC-8801FE and PC-8801MC, which is why I used him in this video. Yeah, having a mascot to sell products was pretty popular in Japan through the 80's and 90's. It still is for some products.

(3) Sound effects were from Popful Mail for PC-88. Build up music is Legend of Heroes II, "Fanfare" music is Pyramid Sorcerian for PC-88VA.

(4) Unless there's some really weird key combination that needs to be pressed, the background doesn't seem to be changeable.

(5) No idea. Media Center seems like a good guess.

And on your "tangent rant", I agree completely. I am definitely in the "recapturing the experience" camp. Having original hardware and software is the most important to me. Having them in perfect condition is not a top priority at all. As long as it works, it feels genuine enough to me. Sure, you could argue that if I'd used this system back when it was newer it would not look all yellowed like it does now, but I would still say that having original and working hardware/software is still the most important to me, not pristine condition ones.

(6) Yes I am planning to make more. I have at least a few more PC-88 vids planned for the near future.

I remember vaguely that the Game Preservation Society had a uber rare PC88MC CD game... doesn't seem like the CD option was popular at all, or at least that's the impression I have given the # of CD games... do you know how many floppy games use CD audio as a bonus?

loosely related tangent: Nobunaga's Ambition on the PC Engine uses chiptunes but weirdly has beautiful orchestra renditions of the classic themes on the very same CD. I wonder if there's a version of the game for the PC88 that can play the music off the PC Engine disc haha.

The "uber rare" PC-8801 CD game is probably "Dios". I'd love to get my hands on that one too. I own the other game "Mirrors", which is not as hard to find.

I can't give an exact number of floppy games that use CD music. Most Falcom and Koei games from the very late 80's and on do. The Falcom games I believe are Legend of Heroes 1 and 2 and Popful Mail. That might be all of them. I think there were at least 4 or 5 Koei games. No idea on why Nobunaga's Ambition for PCE contains the soundtrack. The Koei games are all designed to use the official "Soundware" CD's released by Koei. Unlike the Falcom titles, you can't adjust which tracks play for which parts of the game, so you have to use the official music CDs.

I can't believe you don't know this guy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susumu_Matsushita

Thanks. Didn't realize he was drawn by the same guy. Still wonder if the PC-8801 mascot guy had a name or anything. I presume he probably did, at least internally.

I'd seen that little furry guy before on a music CD:

http://vgmdb.net/album/10427

That music CD was originally included with this PC. Look on the bottom left of the cover. "PC-8801MC".

[Keith Courage]

Just watched your video. Nice info on the machine. 

I happen to have one of those odd ball white PC Engine CD drives that only says CD-Rom on the top with no "2" after it in my possession. I don't have any of the hardware you had it pictured with. Just the CD drive only. It looks so weird.

[SignOfZeta]

In my copy of Formation Soccer on J League (PCE) I have a J League phone card from the 1994 season and all the mascots that year were done by Matsushita. (Calm down, this never came with the game, I put it there). He would have done all the Famitsu covers that year also. He did the New Adventure Island (PCE) cover, the Motortoon Grand Prix series, and a shitload more stuff. He has at least one art book.

[kazekirifx]

I happen to have one of those odd ball white PC Engine CD drives that only says CD-Rom on the top with no "2" after it in my possession. I don't have any of the hardware you had it pictured with. Just the CD drive only. It looks so weird.

Yep. That would be the one that originally came with this PC, but I believe it was not the only way to get it. Was also sold separately if I'm not mistaken.

[xcrement5x]

I can't give an exact number of floppy games that use CD music. Most Falcom and Koei games from the very late 80's and on do. The Falcom games I believe are Legend of Heroes 1 and 2 and Popful Mail. That might be all of them. I think there were at least 4 or 5 Koei games. No idea on why Nobunaga's Ambition for PCE contains the soundtrack. The Koei games are all designed to use the official "Soundware" CD's released by Koei. Unlike the Falcom titles, you can't adjust which tracks play for which parts of the game, so you have to use the official music CDs.

How exactly does the floppy game use CD audio?  Did it use the PC Engine CD game or something else?  I've got a lot of Popful Mail stuff and have never seen an expansion "audio" CD for something like that outside of like the Soundbox that was released by Falcom. 

[turboswimbz]

Nicely done.  GReat video for someone like me to whom the PC-88 isn't accessible at all.  The advertisements and demos of the system were spot on.  I'd like it if in the future you could expand upon some of the games/music and how the CD music worked.  etc.   but you left me wanting more which is always great.  As an aside, I find you very easy to understand but sometimes your voice over sounds a bit "Stiff?, rehearsed? off the emotion?" ehh no those aren't right. Regardless I am nitpicking there,  I LOVE these videos so far and can't wait for more.

as a side note:  Was the MC at the time worth it for the average consumer in Japan or were these more of a novelity at the end of the 88's life?   

Side Side note: Dios soundtrack is awesome.

[kazekirifx]

How exactly does the floppy game use CD audio?  Did it use the PC Engine CD game or something else?  I've got a lot of Popful Mail stuff and have never seen an expansion "audio" CD for something like that outside of like the Soundbox that was released by Falcom. 

The Falcom games let you choose which track to use to replace each track, so you can use any CD you want. You can replace the soundtrack with Abba for all it cares. So if you use a Falcom arranged soundtrack CD for the particular game you just have to set it to use the right track numbers. You can even use the PCE games with no problem at all if you want. I have done this with Legend of Heroes II when I was playing through the game on PC-88. The PCE game disc is the best arranged version of it available.

For the Koei games, you can't change the track numbers, so you have to use the "Soundware" official soundtracks released by Koei or you'll just get whatever is on the corresponding track on the CD you use.

As an aside, I find you very easy to understand but sometimes your voice over sounds a bit "Stiff?, rehearsed? off the emotion?" ehh no those aren't right.

Yeah. I know. I use pre-written scripts. I do my best, but I'm not really a natural at this stuff. I tried doing some of it without a script for my first video, but the result was a lot worse. (Lots of ummms... and uhhs...) I may not be the best talker, but I do my best. Maybe I will get better. My only consolation is that there are quite a few youtubers I watch who I think are even worse.

as a side note:  Was the MC at the time worth it for the average consumer in Japan or were these more of a novelity at the end of the 88's life? 

It wasn't overly expensive compared to other PC-88's, so if you were looking for a PC-88 at the time because you wanted to use the existing software for it or whatever, it wasn't a bad deal. It sold far less than more popular models that were released back in the system's heyday, though like the mKIISR. If one wanted to buy a PC to last, though, in 1989 Japan, the PC-98 would have been a much better choice as it was definitely taking over the market at the time.

[turboswimbz]

NAh the pre-written scripts are very good, it's just I love the passion in your voice behind the yellowed software vs. you pointing out the power button.  But then again how do you make that interesting???  to be honest you are better than about 95% of youtube bullshit collectors.  I would take you over many of the popular guys.  You are clearer and because you focus on the system and games and not some stupid rant 15-20 minute videos feel jam-packed with information and so far not tooooooooo long. (if i have to sit through another I am going to yell at the screen about something that has nothing to do with games or playing becuase you know AVGN and others did it I might throw my you tube enabled device into the ocean)

I want to point out I am not saying the videos are bad, or that your voice over is even remotely negative, it was just trying to give some small feedback as I get the feeling you really love these machines (damn they are pretty cool though).  I mean I'm use to Esteban level enthusiasm all the time, so I'm a bit off.  I mean the man loves blodia.

[MisterCrash]

The capability to swap music is very interesting. On the PC88 music CD, the Falcom selections are samples from the Perfect Collection albums, which had always confused me. It sounds like the system was designed to allow exactly that.

[xcrement5x]

How exactly does the floppy game use CD audio?  Did it use the PC Engine CD game or something else?  I've got a lot of Popful Mail stuff and have never seen an expansion "audio" CD for something like that outside of like the Soundbox that was released by Falcom. 

The Falcom games let you choose which track to use to replace each track, so you can use any CD you want. You can replace the soundtrack with Abba for all it cares. So if you use a Falcom arranged soundtrack CD for the particular game you just have to set it to use the right track numbers. You can even use the PCE games with no problem at all if you want. I have done this with Legend of Heroes II when I was playing through the game on PC-88. The PCE game disc is the best arranged version of it available.

For the Koei games, you can't change the track numbers, so you have to use the "Soundware" official soundtracks released by Koei or you'll just get whatever is on the corresponding track on the CD you use.

Thanks for the additional info!  I was a bit worried there was some other obscure piece of Popful Mail stuff I'd never heard of.  It's neat that they built it that way, it reminds me of how you could rips CDs to your original XBOX and certain games would play that as background tracks instead.

[kazekirifx]

On the PC88 music CD, the Falcom selections are samples from the Perfect Collection albums, which had always confused me. It sounds like the system was designed to allow exactly that.

That "PC88 Music CD" is kind of misleading. The main purpose of it was just a CD to be packaged with the 8801MC so that you'd have a music CD to play on it. Not really to be a collection of PC88 music (which most, but not all of it, is).

[majors]

Good shit! I get happy-happy, joy-joy when I see new activity on Basement Bros. Keep it up!

I get swimbz comment on your voice, but it's fine...in fact I like it. MUCH better reading a script than having "ums" and "ahhhhh's". Plus, I'm not subjected to you standing in front of a wall of N64 games having diarrhea-of-the-mouth going on about some state of vintage gaming. You got shit I've never heard of, and running on real hardware.

[turboswimbz]

Good shit! I get happy-happy, joy-joy when I see new activity on Basement Bros. Keep it up!

I get swimbz comment on your voice, but it's fine...in fact I like it. MUCH better reading a script than having "ums" and "ahhhhh's". Plus, I'm not subjected to you standing in front of a wall of N64 games having diarrhea-of-the-mouth going on about some state of vintage gaming. You got shit I've never heard of, and running on real hardware.

You will noticed I said the same thing in my follow up.  It's just I can tell he loves the damn things so muchhhhhhhhhh.  I need like x10 esteban level stuff.

BUt I am from Jersey there is only so much help for me.

P.S.  I need more NC brew. Dat IPA.

[esteban]

Basement Bros. !!!!

Love 'em.

[kazekirifx]

Thanks for the kind words, guys. It really means a lot to us. I'll keep the videos coming.

[tknjin]

I just finished watching your video about the PC8801, and it was a real treat~ Always curious to learn more information about NECs older PCs and with information being hard to find at times due to its age now, however, I think you did a great job showcasing it.  Much appreciated