Super SD System 3

[GohanX]

I have one and it's great. Eat my dick.

*looks at dick*  I don't think this is going to feed everyone.

Holy shit lol

[haightc]

I did order one of these, even though I have a couple Super CD-ROM2s.  Playing off an SD card and having per game saves make it worth it to me.

[tszarathstra]

Possibly dumb question: Does the SSD3 allow you to create a save state with any game, or does it just emulate the the save feature for games that already had one?

[ccovell]

It doesn't make savestates (in the emulation sense of the word); it manages save-RAM, the same as the CD system and TurboBooster Plus did.

[grendelrt]

It doesn't make savestates (in the emulation sense of the word); it manages save-RAM, the same as the CD system and TurboBooster Plus did.

It also has the option to break out the saves into their own individual files instead of one large file with all the saves in it like the internal backup.

[xcrement5x]

It doesn't make savestates (in the emulation sense of the word); it manages save-RAM, the same as the CD system and TurboBooster Plus did.

It also has the option to break out the saves into their own individual files instead of one large file with all the saves in it like the internal backup.

Wow, that alone is pretty nice.  If you put a Tennokoe in there I'm assuming it'll let you backup the whole thing and then pick or choose saves to backup?

[grendelrt]

It doesn't make savestates (in the emulation sense of the word); it manages save-RAM, the same as the CD system and TurboBooster Plus did.

It also has the option to break out the saves into their own individual files instead of one large file with all the saves in it like the internal backup.

Wow, that alone is pretty nice.  If you put a Tennokoe in there I'm assuming it'll let you backup the whole thing and then pick or choose saves to backup?

I want to say they said if you use a Tennokoe you have to use the older full file backup to be able to transfer, good for getting to your old saves. Once you have saves in individual files you can probably just pull them off the SDcard where they are stored and back them up anywhere you want (and share I am hoping) which would be better for backup purposed i think.

Edit:

This is what they said about Tennokoe

"If you don't have the per game saves selected, the save data will be read and written to a file named backup.bup, so you have all the saves in a block, as if you had a normal super cdrom/IFU. Just insert your ten no koe card and transfer the saves to the cd backup ram."

[CrackTiger]

Basically you can have unlimited single game saves and unlimited PCE format save banks.

[Trenton_net]

So apparently this device works with Game Express titles (as explained by the makers on another forum), but they didn't really touch on how this works. I assume it involves you loading the BIOS images from SD card, and then the device simulates the extra RAM found in DUO systems.

Does anyone know if all the Game Express BIOS cards have been dumped yet? I know there are multiple versions of this card, so you kind of need to match the game with the card?

[CrackTiger]

They've said that Games Express games work the same as all CD games. Select the appropriate system card in the options and play as usual.

I'm no GE expert, but isn't there basically just their equivalent of CD2 and SCD system cards? You don't need to worry about the Duo/Super CD-ROM-only games, which you can't play with an IFU or Turbo CD combo.

[Trenton_net]

They've said that Games Express games work the same as all CD games. Select the appropriate system card in the options and play as usual.

I'm no GE expert, but isn't there basically just their equivalent of CD2 and SCD system cards? You don't need to worry about the Duo/Super CD-ROM-only games, which you can't play with an IFU or Turbo CD combo.

Ah, I was under the impression that it had the extra memory on board the system already. If it doesn't, then those games are not relavent anyways.

[CrackTiger]

They've said that Games Express games work the same as all CD games. Select the appropriate system card in the options and play as usual.

I'm no GE expert, but isn't there basically just their equivalent of CD2 and SCD system cards? You don't need to worry about the Duo/Super CD-ROM-only games, which you can't play with an IFU or Turbo CD combo.

Ah, I was under the impression that it had the extra memory on board the system already. If it doesn't, then those games are not relavent anyways.

The SSS3 can play them all. I'm just speculating on the number of unique GE system cards, since the last time I looked, I think that were only two unique roms I could find.

[Freeway2]

     Which games wouldn't play on those setups(IFU and Duo)

[NecroPhile]

The Super CD equivalent Games Express games won't work on an IFU or TG-CD set up because their custom system cards are bios only and rely on the systems ram.  All of their games will play on a Duo (or LA or SuperCD add-on) because those have the extra ram built in.

[Trenton_net]

I assume in the Super SD System 3, the extra ram is always available (visible to software) regardless of which BIOS you load? <Crosses Fingers>.

[CrackTiger]

I assume in the Super SD System 3, the extra ram is always available (visible to software) regardless of which BIOS you load? <Crosses Fingers>.

Yes, they've confirmed that. We just need to figure out if there really is a difference between the various GE system card roms, how many there actually are and then match them to each game.

[crazydean]

Which one of you pervs plans on play the GE games anyway?

[NecroPhile]

I'd play 'em, especially if they got translation hacks like Lady Sword has.  Hi-Leg Fantasy in particular looks pretty cool.

[CrackTiger]

Hi Leg Fantasy is no good and will erase the rest of your saves.

Lady Sword is pretty good and probably the best GE title. It feels like an early Mega Drive or Neo Geo game.

[gilbert]

CD Mahjong is also a relatively good game (as long as you can play mahjong that is), considering it is a clone of the Super Real Mahjong games, and that the artist later worked on True Love Story (very obvious).

Also, hilarious voice actings.

[CrackTiger]

CD Mahjong is also a relatively good game (as long as you can play mahjong that is), considering it is a clone of the Super Real Mahjong games, and that the artist later worked on True Love Story (very obvious).

Also, hilarious voice actings.

How do you get pcecp results? The search function hasn't worked for me in years.

[gilbert]

Yeah. The search no longer works, but you can still click the tiny PCE or PC-FX icons on the two top corners to get the lists of games for the respective systems.

[xcrement5x]

So would you consider PCECP or PCEdaisakusen the better source of game titles? 

[CrackTiger]

Yeah. The search no longer works, but you can still click the tiny PCE or PC-FX icons on the two top corners to get the lists of games for the respective systems.

Awesone, thanks a lot.

[gilbert]

So would you consider PCECP or PCEdaisakusen the better source of game titles?

I've actually completely forgotten about PCE Daisakusen even though it's in my bookmark.
And I may know why now. This is their page for the same game, which contains very few information, in particular, no cover scan or screenshot. Possibly no contributer has them.
As far as I remember, though data may be sparse, (nearly?) all the entries have cover scans and screenshots (though quality may not be good) in PCECP, plus it had a comprehensive search system... until it was broken that is...

Anyway, back to topic! Too bad I wouldn't get the Super SD System 3, as I only own a PCE Duo.

[xcrement5x]

So would you consider PCECP or PCEdaisakusen the better source of game titles?

I've actually completely forgotten about PCE Daisakusen even though it's in my bookmark.
And I may know why now. This is their page for the same game, which contains very few information, in particular, no cover scan or screenshot. Possibly no contributer has them.
As far as I remember, though data may be sparse, (nearly?) all the entries have cover scans and screenshots (though quality may not be good) in PCECP, plus it had a comprehensive search system... until it was broken that is...

Anyway, back to topic! Too bad I wouldn't get the Super SD System 3, as I only own a PCE Duo.

The non-working search is odd.  I'm not sure how it's put together but it just looks like it's not posting the query terms to the results page from what I can gather. 

[NecroPhile]

PCECP was great.  I loved how you could search by genre, publisher, and number of players instead of just by title.

[CrackTiger]

pcedaisakusen is the best now because you can sort by date, format, etc.

[VmprHntrD]

How are people feeling about this device now with that 2nd version of the UpperGrafx out recently?  It seems aside from hucards you have the same basic feature set but comes in clean clear modern HDMI.

[Todd Gill]

Has there been any compatibility tests of the new UpperGrafx? The SSDS3 has been tested with 100% game compatibility.

The DVI output is nice, but it mentions 1 frame of lag. Add that to whatever you TV has and that might be noticeable.

Also, the UpperGrafx still requires you to have all the system cards for whatever stuff you are playing. Actually, I don't think it emulates any Hucard system cards or games at all? The SSDS3 has that all built in. Supports all HU and CD stuffs.

And the instruction on the UpperGrafx website are cryptic as hell about what all features it has and what image formats it supports. It seems like you have to use their special tool to create the cd images.

Plus the thing is butt ugly compared to the Super SD System 3. But that's IMHO.

In my eyes, the only redeeming thing the UpperGrafx has is the DVI video output.



I would like to see a really good review on the UpperGrafx though. I looked and haven't seen anything yet.

[CrackTiger]

I thought that the big problem with the Upper Grafx is that it essentially drops a frame?

[NecroPhile]

How are people feeling about this device now with that 2nd version of the UpperGrafx out recently?  It seems aside from hucards you have the same basic feature set but comes in clean clear modern HDMI.

The price of the UperGrafx is too high.  If you factor in the cost of an Arcade Card and Everdrive (and DVI to HDMI adapter if you really want HDMI) to get the same capabilities already built-in to a SSD3, you could buy a SSD3 and nice upscaler and have a more compact system and an upscaler to use with other devices.

[turboswimbz]

I still feel the same,

Let the kinks get worked out of the SS3 then grab it for the up-scaling / Everdrive built in one.  I agree with NEcro there seem to be other options out there for what the UG gives you. It's a really nice option if you want to go that route, but I'll let the SS3 work itself out into a better device and pick up one of those.

Ride my PVM plasma till it dies.

[VmprHntrD]

How are people feeling about this device now with that 2nd version of the UpperGrafx out recently?  It seems aside from hucards you have the same basic feature set but comes in clean clear modern HDMI.

The price of the UperGrafx is too high.  If you factor in the cost of an Arcade Card and Everdrive (and DVI to HDMI adapter if you really want HDMI) to get the same capabilities already built-in to a SSD3, you could buy a SSD3 and nice upscaler and have a more compact system and an upscaler to use with other devices.

I'll have to look into that then.  I don't care to get into arcade card stuff.  I wouldn't bother with that frameister device but that OSSC is tempting the more I've looked at that.  So it would I guess come down to the cost of OSSC+SSS3 vs UG2+ED+DVI2HDMI.  This still assumes if people would start reviewing it if the UG2 even works well with discs.

[Trenton_net]

I thought that the big problem with the Upper Grafx is that it essentially drops a frame?

I was under the same impression. Via the conversion process to HDMI, the device has to drop a frame to keep sync. So they need to use special filtering or interpolation to try and hide the judder. It's nice that it supports HDMI, but there are other line doublers/upscaler devices which do this way better.

To be honest, while I applaud the work they did, I don't think it's an SSS3 killer/replacement. Everything they did seems to feel like a compromise. For example, they got CD-ROM images working, but they support only the strange formats no one uses. To select a CD-ROM image you need to use the CD Player, because they were too lazy to make a proper menu. For SD card support, rather than work with a real file system (Fat32, etc), they just made the SD card blank with no file system (So you can't use it like a standard memory card. Ie. to erase an item, you need to delete everything past that item in sequence. Lord help you if the game you want to delete is at the start of your SD card!). To transfer files, you get a USB port, but it's treated like a classic serial port (Need special drivers/software that they provide)

The list of compromises just goes on. :-/

[Psycho Punch]

The upper grafx is unpolished and lazily engineered. I mean WTF?

I'm still waiting for the GDEmu guy's version of the CD hardware emulator.

you get a USB port, but it's treated like a serial port

Universal Serial Bus.

[Trenton_net]

The upper grafx is unpolished and lazily engineered. I mean WTF?

I'm still waiting for the GDEmu guy's version of the CD hardware emulator.

you get a USB port, but it's treated like a serial port

Universal Serial Bus.

Lol. My bad :-) What I meant to imply is that it behaves very unlike most USB mass storage devices.

[CZroe]

Has there been any compatibility tests of the new UpperGrafx? The SSDS3 has been tested with 100% game compatibility.

The DVI output is nice, but it mentions 1 frame of lag. Add that to whatever you TV has and that might be noticeable.

Also, the UpperGrafx still requires you to have all the system cards for whatever stuff you are playing. Actually, I don't think it emulates any Hucard system cards or games at all? The SSDS3 has that all built in. Supports all HU and CD stuffs.

And the instruction on the UpperGrafx website are cryptic as hell about what all features it has and what image formats it supports. It seems like you have to use their special tool to create the cd images.

Plus the thing is butt ugly compared to the Super SD System 3. But that's IMHO.

In my eyes, the only redeeming thing the UpperGrafx has is the DVI video output.



I would like to see a really good review on the UpperGrafx though. I looked and haven't seen anything yet.

Hey, man. Did you ever make a video about SSDSys3? I've been waiting for it to pop up but haven't seen it even though I have seen vague references to "Todd's review."

Anyway, there isn't much of any English info for UGX-02. GameTechUS has a UGX-01 back in 2016 and didn't even mention that it was expected to be able to be an optical drive emulator (the makers long claimed UGX-01 had everything it needed but they weren't sure about enabling the feature). Can't even tell in the GameTechUS review if it had an SD card slot. UGX-02 has it enabled with an SD cart slot. Reading their machine-translated Japanese site, it may be that the only real difference is that the SD card slot is populated on the PCB, though their English section says that all components were populated for the feature on the original version (seems contradictory).

It looks like the SD card is accessed RAW without FAT or a standard file system so their tool is as much about reading and writing the SD cards as it is about adapting CD images. It probably isn't too different than the tool used to prep ROMs for NeoSD.

It does support dumping HuCards though they claim that this functionality is unofficial. They probably don't want to get in legal trouble (what are Japans laws regarding this?). Another thing it does that SSDSys3 does not is save digital snapshots/screen grabs.

For almost anyone with a Turbo Everdrive, the lack of HuCard and System Card functions isn't such a big deal. Turbo ED can do any HuCard game and replicate all the system cards except the Arcade Card for those 8 or so titles. Most anyone who cares about them probably already has an Arcade Card or a better system for playing the same games... mostly SNK fighters and a couple Majong games, so just screw Majong and get a NeoGeo. ;) The SSDSys3 definitely gets a value advantage for anyone who doesn't have a TurboED since that's another $70+. Keeping my TurboED for the Turbo Express anyway so it might as well continue serving double duty as a Super System Card.

The single frame of lag thing is referring to a frame buffer that is used to maintain 60hz sync on a console that does not output exactly 60hz. You get the same issues with an SNES and an OSSC (some TVs won't tolerate it). If it's properly designed like the Analogue Super NT at original speed then it's "up to" one frame of lag where it starts at 0ms latency and ever so slightly increases each frame until the system gets a full frame out of sync. From there, it drops back to 0ms and starts all over. That means it would average a half-frame of latency with a single frame maximum. My understanding is that the existing multi-out continues to work fine much like UltraHDMI. That means you can have the best of both worlds for capturing high-quality DVI/HDMI while playing with zero latency from analog outputs or existing RGB mods.

Yes, the only redeeming thing the UpperGrafx has in direct comparison is DVI/HDMI unless you're some weirdo who decides based on the screenshot and HuCard dumping features, but that's because DVI/HDMI is the primary feature. The UGX-01 didn't do ODE at all though it supposedly is capable with some presumably small alteration (they entertained the idea of converting existing units but have not decided). Unfortunately for Terra Onion, more people are concerned with video quality than they were counting on and they gave it a huge boon by initially ignoring that aspect. Hopefully the revision fixes all of this, though I still think DVI/HDMI could be compelling.

The compatibility info regarding the UGX-02 doesn't seem to have changed since before the SSDSys3 was even announced. I would hope that it has improved since they reported ~80% of CD titles worked several months ago. It definitely doesn't sound as good as SSDSys3 in that regard.

I thought that the big problem with the Upper Grafx is that it essentially drops a frame?

So does the 60hz display. To avoid this you'd have to speed up or slow down the entire system to match when using DVI/HDMI because the display interface does not support out of spec or variable refresh rates. That's how AVS, Hi-Def NES, Nt Mini, and Super Nt deal with it. An attachment can't speed up or slow down the system. It can display the frames as they are generated. If they come too fast it will have to start buffering the next frame which will add a fraction of a frame of latency that increases with each frame all the way up to one frame of latency. At that point, it drops a frame and returns to zero latency. The only other way to avoid this on an original system running at original speed without adding adding that average half-frame of lag is to allow screen tearing.

The Analogue Super Nt, for example, has all three options: run system at exactly 60hz (0.08hz slower), drop a frame every 750 frames, or allow screen tearing. They may even offer a fourth option: analog adapter for CRTs at 60.08hz. I'm not sure what options UGX has, but dropping 1 frame every whatever frames would average to a half-frame of lag and would not be a deal-killer for me, especially if the other analog outputs continue working at zero latency.

How are people feeling about this device now with that 2nd version of the UpperGrafx out recently?  It seems aside from hucards you have the same basic feature set but comes in clean clear modern HDMI.

The price of the UperGrafx is too high.  If you factor in the cost of an Arcade Card and Everdrive (and DVI to HDMI adapter if you really want HDMI) to get the same capabilities already built-in to a SSD3, you could buy a SSD3 and nice upscaler and have a more compact system and an upscaler to use with other devices.

I'd agree except that most of us already have a Turbo ED that functions as a Super System Card. The SNK fighters and Majong games constitute more than half of the Arcade Card exclusives and there are superior platforms for that stuff anyway.

[CZroe]

I still feel the same,

Let the kinks get worked out of the SS3 then grab it for the up-scaling / Everdrive built in one.  I agree with NEcro there seem to be other options out there for what the UG gives you. It's a really nice option if you want to go that route, but I'll let the SS3 work itself out into a better device and pick up one of those.

Ride my PVM plasma till it dies.

To be clear, the UGX is not an scaling analog RGB. It get's digital and maintains digital for its DVI/HDMI output. It has more in common with, say, an UltraHDMI N64 than a OSSC RGB N64.

The upper grafx is unpolished and lazily engineered. I mean WTF?

I'm still waiting for the GDEmu guy's version of the CD hardware emulator.

you get a USB port, but it's treated like a serial port

Universal Serial Bus.

He never updated after expressing a tiny bit of interest years ago. No reason to think he's actually working on it. Even if he was, the market is probably too crowded to support a third player. He'd likely abandon it or release his project files or something.

[NecroPhile]

I'd agree except that most of us already have a Turbo ED that functions as a Super System Card.

Most of us already have a Duo or IFU, TED, Arcade Card, and/or RGB mod and upscaler too, so what's your point?  I seriously doubt that most people buying these things are new to PCE or have been using only a base system for years.

The SNK fighters and Majong games constitute more than half of the Arcade Card exclusives and there are superior platforms for that stuff anyway.

The SNK games are just under half of the Arcade Card library (5 out of 12, and 1 of those 5 is the sole mahjong game), and there's no such thing as a "superior platform" to the PCE. 

[VmprHntrD]

There is when we're talking NeoGeo games.  Use a NeoGeo.   I have no interest in arcade cards because I have a couple arcade cabinets, one is a Neo Geo and I'd rather play on that.  Sure I could go cheap and easy and double dip with Switch $6 releases but haven't.

My sole interest in non-HuCard based stuff with the PCE would lie mostly with the CD/SCD games I used to own and to try a few beyond that.  It's another reason I'm not hard up entirely on the SSS3 because I was HuCard deprived in the 90s because the turbo chip library mostly sucked and now I have access to a PC Engine instead.  Just so much more to do there that I couldn't in the past.

[CZroe]

I'd agree except that most of us already have a Turbo ED that functions as a Super System Card.

Most of us already have a Duo or IFU, TED, Arcade Card, and/or RGB mod and upscaler too, so what's your point?  I seriously doubt that most people buying these things are new to PCE or have been using only a base system for years.

That is my point. The cost of a buying another Turbo Everdrive is irrelevant for someone who already has a Turbo Everdrive which brings the UGX-02 a bit closer to the SSDSys3 with that crowd and makes DVI/HDMI the deciding factor by an even larger margin.

The SNK fighters and Majong games constitute more than half of the Arcade Card exclusives and there are superior platforms for that stuff anyway.

The SNK games are just under half of the Arcade Card library (5 out of 12, and 1 of those 5 is the sole mahjong game), and there's no such thing as a "superior platform" to the PCE. 

Good point. PCE obviously does it better! ;)


Was accidentally inflating the mahjong count with some of the Arcade Card enhanced titles that don't actually require it:
Mahjong Sword Princess Quest Gaiden
Sexy Idol Mahjong Fashion Monogatari
Super Real Mahjong P II & III Custom
Super Real Mahjong P V Custom

[CrackTiger]

That Mahjong game is also an arcade/RPG style Neo Geo port that is supposed to add a lot over the original version(s).

[Todd Gill]

Hey, man. Did you ever make a video about SSDSys3? I've been waiting for it to pop up but haven't seen it even though I have seen vague references to "Todd's review."

Not yet. I am waiting for my revised board.

Review will probably be up in about 2 weeks or less.



Edit: Ohh, and for anyone who has seen it already:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?273291-PCE-Super-SD-System-3-Terraonion-New-Product-(Dec-2017)&p=4272113&viewfull=1#post4272113

[Purple1308]

So all this thing does is play cd games from flash?

[SavagePencil]

It plays CD games, plays HuCard games, emulates System cards, and has RGB out.

[Todd Gill]

Cross post from NG . com

I received the revised PCB for the SSDS3 from TerraOnion and put together this little quick video showing off the difference between the original and the revised board. My PCB is hand soldered rather than factory soldered, so that's how they were able to get it to me so quick.

My full in depth video will be posted next week.

[Purple1308]

It plays CD games, plays HuCard games, emulates System cards, and has RGB out.

Thanks i was wondering what this did

[CrackTiger]

It plays CD games, plays HuCard games, emulates System cards, and has RGB out.

Thanks i was wondering what this did

It also allows unlimited copies of games saves as either traditional save banks or per game.

[Purple1308]

It plays CD games, plays HuCard games, emulates System cards, and has RGB out.

Thanks i was wondering what this did

It also allows unlimited copies of games saves as either traditional save banks or per game.

So do still use a system card for it