REPAIR GUIDE - TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo: Total capacitor replacement chart

[Kyle]

[removed, sorry]

[Game-Tech.US]

I've been asked about what cap sizes I use to recap the Duo, using surface mount ceramics instead of electrolytic leaded caps.
I show the process in this vid:

Mouser is out of some of these, but this was what I settled on using:
77-VJ1206V106ZXQTBC 1206 10uF 10volts qty 6
77-VJ1206V475MXJTBC 1206 4.7uF 16volts qty 4
810-CGA6P3X7R1H335K 1210 3.3uF 50volts qty 1
963-LMK316F226ZL-T 1206 10V 22uF qty 19
81-GRM31CE70J476ME5L 1206 47uF 6.3volts qty 4
81-GRM31CD80J107ME9L 1206 100uF 6.3volts qty 10

What mouser didn't have I got off ebay, looked for known good name brand reels of 100uF and 47uF, iirc TDK and Taiyo Yuden.

I'd still like to know if any of these can be eliminated and a higher or lower uF value used, where it's not critical etc. Just to make it that much easier to order etc.

[cjameslv]

I've been asked about what cap sizes I use to recap the Duo, using surface mount ceramics instead of electrolytic leaded caps.
I show the process in this vid:

Mouser is out of some of these, but this was what I settled on using:
77-VJ1206V106ZXQTBC 1206 10uF 10volts qty 6
77-VJ1206V475MXJTBC 1206 4.7uF 16volts qty 4
810-CGA6P3X7R1H335K 1210 3.3uF 50volts qty 1
963-LMK316F226ZL-T 1206 10V 22uF qty 19
81-GRM31CE70J476ME5L 1206 47uF 6.3volts qty 4
81-GRM31CD80J107ME9L 1206 100uF 6.3volts qty 10

What mouser didn't have I got off ebay, looked for known good name brand reels of 100uF and 47uF, iirc TDK and Taiyo Yuden.

I'd still like to know if any of these can be eliminated and a higher or lower uF value used, where it's not critical etc. Just to make it that much easier to order etc.

The 47uf & 100uf back in stock just today. Been waiting forever. Your list came in at 12.77 + shipping. I chose the $4.99 usps shipping

[Game-Tech.US]

I always kick in the extra few $s to go ups, I did that cheap service once and it took like 2 weeks.
I think they use ups to your post office then whatever from there, so it takes longer...

[cjameslv]

Part arrived yesterday, so took a week which i don't think is bad for cheapie shipping.

[SmokeMonster]

Thanks for the great chart. I had it open on my monitor and also printed off Console5's, and the recap was a breeze. One suggestion would be to upload a higher resolution version, so it can be blown up larger.

I used all Panasonic caps. When I powered it up, the CD-ROM even started to spin for the first time. The picture and audio are fantastic now, and I'll do some more with the CD when all of my buttons are out of their retr0brite treatment. I bought my Duo for peanuts because it was sold for parts as "completely broken".



I was inspired by the capacitor charts posted here and did some of my own for the Neo Geo CDZ last week.

A huge thank-you also to Game-Tech.US for posting so many great tutorials on youtube.

[Waterclocker]

I've got a couple Duos I will be recapping soon.  Definitely will using this guide.  I'm curious is anyone has noticed a difference in sound quality between different types of caps.  I've heard ceramic caps are not the best option for audio circuits.  I will probably use the Panasonic FC series, but I'm wondering if audio grade caps would make the audio even better?  I would probably use ELNA Silmic 2s.  Most are probably just glad to get their Duo working, but I'm wondering it this would make a noticable difference.  Any thoughts?

[SmokeMonster]

I'm wondering if audio grade caps would make the audio even better?  I would probably use ELNA Silmic 2s.  Most are probably just glad to get their Duo working, but I'm wondering it this would make a noticable difference.  Any thoughts?

I certainly don't think they would hurt, but I am skeptical that you would be able to differentiate and improvements.

That said, if you are replacing audio caps it makes perfect sense to use nice audio graded caps if you have them on hand. Almost anything will be a big improvement over the stock setup. My Duo had a few ELNA caps and a Rubycon or two, but most were garbage Chang caps, and they are all very old and degraded by this point. I was surprised at just how badly the caps had fared in my Duo.

[mickcris]

I've got a couple Duos I will be recapping soon.  Definitely will using this guide.  I'm curious is anyone has noticed a difference in sound quality between different types of caps.  I've heard ceramic caps are not the best option for audio circuits.  I will probably use the Panasonic FC series, but I'm wondering if audio grade caps would make the audio even better?  I would probably use ELNA Silmic 2s.  Most are probably just glad to get their Duo working, but I'm wondering it this would make a noticable difference.  Any thoughts?

It would be a good experiment if you got both sets of caps for the audio and tried them one at a time.  Probably the only way to tell if there is any difference.

[Waterclocker]

Thanks for the comments!  Good idea!  I started to swap out some caps, but I'm noticing that my DUO-R sounds way way better.  I've changed SMT caps in the op-amp area with new Silmic 2s, but have noticed no improvement over the old caps that were possibly still good.  The DUO-R is louder and is much more dynamic with better mid range and bass.  Both original DUOs I have sound the same.  Does the DUO-R have a better sound circuit?  Going to keep changing caps, but need to order more.  I hope I can get the DUOs I have to sound as good as my DUO-R at least.

[Waterclocker]

Reading the sound fix thread now, going to try replacing the radial leaded caps that are next to the vr heatsinks.  Makes sense that the heat could have dried them out.

[thesteve]

they leak
the failure to run on the radial caps is from corrosion
the SMD ones dry out

[MNKyDeth]

I normally buy my caps from Mouser but I was in a bit of a rush and didn't take the time to make out a list for what I needed so I ordered a cap replacement kit from Console5.

My question is related to the cap themselves mostly. I see they included a lot of caps with the right uF values but the voltage ratings are different.

An example is I know a spot needs a 22uF 25v cap but all I have in my kit are 22uF 50v caps. Is it ok to go above the voltage as long as the uF rating is correct?

There are a number of caps that have the same values as the ones on the board just some like the one I mentioned has a rather large voltage difference.

Edit:

Also, is there a way to estimate how long a supercap will last in the Duo's? I am planning on replacing one with a 1.5Farad supercap hoping that it will last longer but I would also like to guestimate it's time for holing a charge so I don't lose my save files if I store my Duo for a while.

[NightWolve]

An example is I know a spot needs a 22uF 25v cap but all I have in my kit are 22uF 50v caps. Is it ok to go above the voltage as long as the uF rating is correct?

Yes sir! Not only is it OK, it's better! I've answered this quite a few times here, spreading my newly acquired Le Steve knowledge.

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7012.msg298464#msg298464

16 V is OK/safe. The circuit board generally operates at ~5 Volts DC after the power regulator, so capacitors that are rated 10 V or above are safe. But the bigger they are, the better they are: they last longer, handle "ripple" better and sometimes there is power inverting going on so they need to be of higher voltage in that area of the board. This comes at the expense of size and $$$: a 25 V cap is physically bigger and more expensive than a 16 V cap, etc. Anyhow, I was confused about this as well when I got started, but there ya go. When replacing a capacitor, you simply need to match the capacitance value exactly, but the max breakdown voltage can be equal or higher (and higher/bigger is better/safer).

That voltage rating on a capacitor is the max breakdown voltage, meaning, if the circuit runs at or higher than that, the capacitor is gonna start to overheat, break down, be destroyed, etc.

Most electronics run at 5 Volts DC here, so 16V rated or better caps are fine.

Sometimes, you don't want to be too close to the normal operating voltage though - it's always better to go bigger if you got the space and don't care to have paid more $$$!

E.g. I have a power supply for a 19" LCD TV given to me for servicing that had both 5VDC and 12VDC power outputs. The 12VDC area had 16V caps for regulation which broke down and killed the TV. Given the extra heat in the area, the manufacturer went too cheap and should've used 25V rated caps which would've been a little harder to fit given the PCB design, but possible. So only after 3-4 years of service, this new TV was dead for something as simple as a few capacitors...

Here's a video from the EE I learned a few things from:

He has a dumpster diving TV/monitor repair segment/feature. People throwing away TVs and LCDs that mostly failed due to cheap capacitors in the power supply area for reasons like this which he finds/is given for amazingly cheap repairs most anybody can do! Cheap CapXon brands and rated just a bit too close to operating output voltage is a typical reason for failure.

[JoeQuaker]

I really need to get around to replacing the caps in my TurboDuo (the all-black model). Everything still functions fine but the audio is really, really weak.

I just dread starting the job as everything looks so tiny and I've never soldered on anything surface-mounted. I'm more used to replacing caps in things like arcade monitor boards and Commodore 64 floppy drives.

[PunkCryborg]

Recapped a turbo duo. Kind of a pain in the ass using leaded caps. Next one I do will be all tantalums or ceramics for the SMD smd stuff.

[gahrling]

Hey, new user here

I'm attempting to rescue a Turbo Duo unit from death and stumbled across this guide. I intend to do a full cap replacement as starters before performing an RGB mod, though I may need some assistance.

For the cap replacement I want to go the SMD Tantalum route but I'm a bit uncertain on a couple of things:

1. Case size. Will I be able to get away with case size B for all SMD replacements? For instance the original 22uf and 100uf caps on the pcb have completely different physical sizes, the 100uf having approx double the diameter.

2. Voltage. When shopping around for Tant caps I've seen some listing as 'V' and others as 'V dc'. Can I use both types or is one not recommended for this project?

[thesteve]

as far as tant caps, you want to uprate the voltage
V is VDC
for most of the caps i use ceramic 1206
the 100uf6v i use 100uf 16v tant
47uf use 2 22uf ceramic
everything else is leaded and use aluminum like original

[gtsamour]

I have a question guys...

I replaced all the caps on my PCE Duo with smd caps. Do some 22uF electrolytic caps that are located on both sides of the board (black square ones) also need to be replaced?

I have some 22uF tantalum ones, is it OK to use these instead of the electrolytic ones? I used the same ones for the jailbar fix for pins 41/42, 43 pins of the 6260 chip.



Thanks

[Keith Courage]

[farankoshan]

Has anyone ever updated this thread with definitive voltage ratings for each capacitor?
I'm a little bit confused as to why some sites report differing ratings.

For example, Console5's list has nothing besides 6v or 16v. Is that accurate to say?
The site does sell a full capacitor set, including capacitors to improve the saving capability, as well as to help with a jailbar fix. But I'm unsure about values now.
Here: https://console5.com/wiki/Turbo_Duo

Meanwhile, GameDoctorHK has varying voltage ratings depending on the capacitor. Could be based on the original ratings that came factory-stock on the unit (but that's only a guess).
Here: http://gamedoctorhk.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1143

[farankoshan]

Has anyone ever updated this thread with definitive voltage ratings for each capacitor?
I'm a little bit confused as to why some sites report differing ratings.

For example, Console5's list has nothing besides 6v or 16v. Is that accurate to say?
The site does sell a full capacitor set, including capacitors to improve the saving capability, as well as to help with a jailbar fix. But I'm unsure about values now.
Here: https://console5.com/wiki/Turbo_Duo

Meanwhile, GameDoctorHK has varying voltage ratings depending on the capacitor. Could be based on the original ratings that came factory-stock on the unit (but that's only a guess).
Here: http://gamedoctorhk.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1143

I bring this concern up (and I would really appreciate anyone who can shed light on this) because I recently had my cd spindle stop spinning. Unsure what caused it to stop, but I just opted to do a full cap replacement. I followed the GameDoctorHK values, and though my HuCard slot works, my CD spindle and lens still refuse to work. Can a wrong voltage rating on a capacitor cause a malfunction like this?

[Keith Courage]

Voltage can be the same or above the rating needed. Meaning if the cap requires 16v you can use 16v,35v etc....you just can't go lower.

[NightWolve]

You must match the capacitance value, but like he said, the max breakdown voltage can always be rated higher, the higher the better.

If the board runs at 5V, you should use a 16V rated cap, it'll be totally safe, can handle spikes, heat better, etc. I have seen TVs break simply because they used a 16V cap in the power supply to regulate 12V for the backlight screen lamps. The caps overheated and popped at the top. Always better to use a 35V cap on a 12V area, especially near a power supply since you've got all that heat from regulators and transformers.

The only downside is the cap will be bigger and more expensive the higher the rated breakdown voltage is. So if the space is there, use 35V if you can especially if you got cheap Chinese caps. No harm no foul, they'll just last so much longer.

[farankoshan]

You must match the capacitance value, but like he said, the max breakdown voltage can always be rated higher, the higher the better.

If the board runs at 5V, you should use a 16V rated cap, it'll be totally safe, can handle spikes, heat better, etc. I have seen TVs break simply because they used a 16V cap in the power supply to regulate 12V for the backlight screen lamps. The caps overheated and popped at the top. Always better to use a 35V cap on a 12V area, especially near a power supply since you've got all that heat from regulators and transformers.

The only downside is the cap will be bigger and more expensive the higher the rated breakdown voltage is. So if the space is there, use 35V if you can especially if you got cheap Chinese caps. No harm no foul, they'll just last so much longer.

Voltage can be the same or above the rating needed. Meaning if the cap requires 16v you can use 16v,35v etc....you just can't go lower.

Thanks for these notes guys. Will keep that in mind. Big help!

However, although we can go out and buy 35v for virtually everything is space inside the console was no problem (or if availability of those caps wasn't a problem either), for peace of mind & reference, will Red Ghost ever update that capacitor list? He did a great job with the cap list on the PCE CD-ROM2 a while back. I used that and never looked back.

Just so we can have the actual values on hand so we know how much higher voltage ratings we can look for.