Could Dynasty Wars be improved on?

soop · 04/10/2018, 03:47 AM

I just watched two videos to compare, and while I always thought the PC Engine version compared unfavorably to the Arcade, it's not actually so bad. There's some awful sprite flicker, sure, and the sprites are smaller, but I can't see any other system other than the Neo Geo doing much better.

Does anyone know if it could be improved upon?

CrackTiger · 04/10/2018, 07:27 AM

It's pretty sloppy. Tom has looked into it and like Strider and Forgotten Worlds the sprites were built inefficiently like the arcade version. So the player sprite (and likely enemirs on horseback) is the rider overlapping the horse, instead of a single sprite.

The graphics look like they were resized without being touched up and the coloring could be so much better.

Lots of potential for parallax, especially if the resolution was lowered.

soop · 04/10/2018, 07:42 AM

Quote from: guest on 04/10/2018, 07:27 AMIt's pretty sloppy. Tom has looked into it and like Strider and Forgotten Worlds the sprites were built inefficiently like the arcade version. So the player sprite (and likely enemirs on horseback) is the rider overlapping the horse, instead of a single sprite.

The graphics look like they were resized without being touched up and the coloring could be so much better.

Lots of potential for parallax, especially if the resolution was lowered.

And if the resolution was lowered, the sprites would be bigger too. It sounds like they really missed a trick with this one. The arcade version was more colourful and had a LOT of sprites, but it sounds like they made an awful mess of things.

~~How difficult would it be to ROM hack?~~ Let me rephrase... If you ROM hacked the game, what easy wins could you get? Could the slowdown be fixed by redrawing the horseback sprites and omitting some draw routines for less slowdown? The other thing I was thinking is that the English sampled speech could be lifted straight from the Arcade (I'm assuming) pretty easily.

CrackTiger · 04/11/2018, 12:11 AM

Here's a couple quick conversions of the background and sprites at the lower resolution. The sprites look like they're actually narrower than NEC's port, so the extra height should at least balance out. This is without touching up or reworking the pixelart.

ARCADE

NEC's PCE <------------------------------------------------------------> BT's PCE

roflmao · 04/11/2018, 12:30 AM

Wow, that looks way closer to the original. :O

Psycho Punch · 04/11/2018, 01:05 AM

Hold on, does the PCE port uses the full 512 horizontal resolution instead of the more sensible 256?

The absolute madmen

gilbert · 04/11/2018, 01:50 AM

I think it's the mid-res, i.e. 300-something horizontal pixel mode, though most people just call it 320 pixel mode (including the developers) probably because of its connection to PC resolutions.

There are some drawbacks in using this mode though, as NEC has imposed a limitation that at most 14 sprites can be placed in each line(as opposed to 16). Whether most of the games using this mode tried to stick to this limitation is unknown, but Hudson Soft certainly got a slap in the face by breaking this limitation without knowing when making R-Type and got a "One time only. Don't do this again!" warning from NEC. Irem probably made some changes to make the game stick to the limitation when making the Complete CD version (possibly already done in the western card release though).

PukeSter · 04/11/2018, 01:09 PM

I love Dynasty Wars, just a shame no co-op or difficulty options. I like the chip music too, and I love how despite a lack of parallax, the backgrounds are very lengthy and don't repeat tiles (like what Renny Blaster and those cutscenes in Ys IV).

Unrelated but can Turbo be added to Street Fighter 2 champion edition? If not the extra moves (air hurricane kick is awesome), at least adjustable speed?

Psycho Punch · 04/11/2018, 01:39 PM

Quote from: PukeSter on 04/11/2018, 01:09 PMI love Dynasty Wars, just a shame no co-op or difficulty options. I like the chip music too, and I love how despite a lack of parallax, the backgrounds are very lengthy and don't repeat tiles (like what Renny Blaster and those cutscenes in Ys IV).

Unrelated but can Turbo be added to Street Fighter 2 champion edition? If not the extra moves (air hurricane kick is awesome), at least adjustable speed?

I think they removed coop mainly due to the already problematic sprite dropoff issues with 1 controllable character. Which is too bad.

CrackTiger · 04/11/2018, 02:01 PM

Quote from: PukeSter on 04/11/2018, 01:09 PMI love Dynasty Wars, just a shame no co-op or difficulty options. I like the chip music too, and I love how despite a lack of parallax, the backgrounds are very lengthy and don't repeat tiles (like what Renny Blaster and those cutscenes in Ys IV).

Unrelated but can Turbo be added to Street Fighter 2 champion edition? If not the extra moves (air hurricane kick is awesome), at least adjustable speed?

Tom made a hack that ran at the highest Turbo speed to prove to that it was no problem for the PC Engine. I think that the most we might see in our lifetimes is a speed and color hack with alternate sprite colors.

Sarumaru · 04/11/2018, 03:44 PM

Good lord, BT. You make me want this game. And I already have it! But I was disappointed with the PCE version of Tenchi wo Kurau. If it looked like your rendition though... holy moly~

WoodyXP · 04/11/2018, 05:23 PM

Quote from: soop on 04/10/2018, 03:47 AMDoes anyone know if it could be improved upon?

Meh.. I'm sure that turd could be polished a little more. I'd rather see different development team build it from scratch as an Arcade Card release.

Psycho Punch · 04/11/2018, 06:13 PM

Quote from: WoodyXP on 04/11/2018, 05:23 PM
Quote from: soop on 04/10/2018, 03:47 AMDoes anyone know if it could be improved upon?
Meh.. I'm sure that turd could be polished a little more. I'd rather see different development team build it from scratch as an Arcade Card release.

Delete this. >: (

geise · 04/11/2018, 10:07 PM

I find the sound at least more pleasing on the pc-e version

gilbert · 04/12/2018, 02:27 AM

Considering the track record of NEC Avenue, who got loads of licenses and having a number of them delayed for a long time (Strider, Monster Maker I, Madou Monogatari 1), some of which eventually canceled (Might & Magic II, Monster Maker II, Madou Monogatari 2 & 3, Space Fantasy Zone) it's a miracle this game eventually got released (it was featured in the "in development" section of game magazines alongside Strider, Madou Monogatari 1 and Space Fantasy Zone for a long, long time).

At least it still looks good compared to the arcade original and not that bad in gameplay, and most people found it a better effort than Strider, and it's not even an Arcade Card game (I think if they made a last minute decision to change it to using the Arcade Card, just like Strider, it may at least be possible to have all of each stage's assets loaded in one go and have CDDA BGM played throughout, without the need in streaming data, which was proven not very effective in the old, old Altered Beast), though that might make the game less accessible and could meet with much lower sales as few people would dare to buy the Arcade Card because of this game (but they did this with Strider, which I think people would not buy the upgrade for that particular game either).

PukeSter · 04/12/2018, 10:13 AM

NEC Avenue was cool overall but they outsourced to multiple teams

Darius Plus is still an incredible port, so is after burner 2 and rainbow islands. They were vital for so many 3rd party games on the system, including getting an exclusive capcom platformer (sonson 2)

exodus · 04/12/2018, 01:02 PM

my problem with this game is it's just extreeeemly boring all the way through.

(and yet I own it, and its sequel for saturn)

soop · 04/12/2018, 01:13 PM

Quote from: exodus on 04/12/2018, 01:02 PMmy problem with this game is it's just extreeeemly boring all the way through.

(and yet I own it, and its sequel for saturn)

Oh! How is the saturn version? I really wanted a home version since the spectrum days, the Saturn could be good. I also used to think Dynasty Warriors was the same franchise. Disappointment.

exodus · 04/12/2018, 03:19 PM

Saturn version is Tenshi wo Kurau 2, so it's a bit more of a traditional beat-em-up, where you aren't always on horseback - it's a bit more like Knights of the Round in that way? It's definitely an improvement over the first game, but still not super inspiring. Nice giant sprites though!

(it's also pretty much arcade perfect)

soop · 04/12/2018, 03:37 PM

Quote from: exodus on 04/12/2018, 03:19 PMSaturn version is Tenshi wo Kurau 2, so it's a bit more of a traditional beat-em-up, where you aren't always on horseback - it's a bit more like Knights of the Round in that way? It's definitely an improvement over the first game, but still not super inspiring. Nice giant sprites though!

(it's also pretty much arcade perfect)

Thanks! I like Knights of the round, I'll check it out

Keith Courage · 04/13/2018, 11:44 PM

Great game. The best way to improve it would be to have an english translation.