Holy crap on a cracker! Gotta love ebay!...or hate it!

[geise]

Check out this nonsense. http://cgi.ebay.com/Turbo-Grafx-Duo-THE-DYNASTIC-HERO-Factory-Sealed-NEW_W0QQitemZ220199687699QQihZ012QQcategoryZ62053QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

[OldRover]

I know the game is very rare but not even Magical Chase goes for that much sealed.

EDIT: I sent them a message, asking them if they were out of their minds.

[geise]

I also have Beyond Shadowgate that they are selling for 349.99.  Granted mine isn't used but it's in Near mint.  I don't even think I could sell Beyond Shadowgate for more than 100.00 without feeling like I'm ripping someone off.  I also want to sell Might and Magic 3 since I never ever play it.  I'd rather sell my stuff through here than Ebay.  I don't want those crap ass stores to  buy it from me at a "respectable" price  then wank it on ebay for an outlandish price.  I'll soon post another topic about Might and Magic 3 and Beyond Shadowgate with pictures, just to see what people here are willing to pay.  I want a PC-Engine/Duo fan to take my Turbo games.  I want them to have a good home. 

Anyways this store also says they are the "only" other place that sells Factory Sealed Duo games besides TZD.  I wonder if they used to work there, stole some games, and are hawking them on stealbay.

EDIT:  Sorry just found out going through the forums about them buying TZD. 

[MurderDate]

I also have Beyond Shadowgate that they are selling for 349.99.  Granted mine isn't used but it's in Near mint.  I don't even think I could sell Beyond Shadowgate for more than 100.00 without feeling like I'm ripping someone off.

I don't think you could sell it for more than $100, period.  Actually it's at a solid $80 the last couple of weeks.

fuck redfrogusa!  They are wiping out the TG16 market and they don't care. It's going to tank ,  sink like a red balloon.  I'm glad I got rid of my duplicates/unwanted games when I did. 
on the up side - the prices will be stable and in most everyone's reach soon enough.. Those last 15 games I need I should be able to get for a couple twenty dollar bills.


edit: ahaha I meant "sink like a lead balloon" of course - but I'll keep it with a red balloon just for fun

[PCEngineHell]

Well,you all already know my thoughts on this

[Sinistron]

Well this definitely is verification for Mike's complaint if anyone needed it.  Jesus Jones- 900 beans for Dynastic Hero- from the new "TZD" boys?  These fellas suck wild ass.  Moes like these guys are why honest folk can't afford this title- yeah it's rare- but this drives up the price ludicrously whenever someone's about to sell one and uses pages like that to reference the worth.  It's becoming more and more likely that I will never own this title.  Nice coup, asshats.   

Also-
Been needing an extension cable and the ones on EBay are like twice the price they are on the TZD site- well firstly after reading this thread I'm done with these guys- but for about a week I DID try to order the cable from "TZD"- Is it just my server or do the "add to cart" links no longer work?  I e-mailed Bonk (please) as well and got back an e-mail saying that the address doesn't exist.  Are these guys disconnecting the site to make everyone forget about it- only to casually jack up the prices on everything and then get it up and working again with advertising shills aiming to pop up in forums like this?

[MurderDate]

don't worry , they'll never sell it for that price.  Very soon they'll drop it down to $300 I guarantee.  And then the next sealed copy they pull out of their crate of them will start at $300 and end up selling for $150, and so on and so forth.

[Sinistron]

Don't be so certain- there's some stubborn motherforkers on those auctions that refuse to eat crow.

[MissaFX]

No game is worth 900 dollars unless it is an arcade machine!

[nat]

[rant]

OK, before I was merely afraid. Now I'm convinced-- Redfrog are a bunch of buttfucking jackasses.  Yeah, I'm real, real happy you bought TZD's stock. You're doing a great service to the Turbo community. Fuck you, Redfrog. Nice way to stick it to the Turbo community.

[/rant]

[geise]

I haven't even ever seen a "Factory Sealed" version of Sapphire go for more than $600 on ebay.  I tell you one thing though, the $8 version of Dynastic Hero on the Wii VC is looking mighty nice.

[PCEngineHell]

Well,I saw this coming all along after the first auctions they did. What I also recommend to any of you is to add them to your block bidder list. This way you can at least keep them from buying your items and reselling them and unreasonable prices.

[Ceti Alpha]

EDIT: I sent them a message, asking them if they were out of their minds.

Well, it's all relative. They may be out of their minds and probably know it, but they will feel a lot more sane compared to the jack ass that buys this game for that ludicrous price.

[MurderDate]

if redfrog bought the TZD stock why would they be bidding on underpriced auctions for resale ?  Am I missing something here?

I've seen it happen from time to time with records..   something is considered rare/in demand until it is found.  I know a dude in Italy bought like an entire pallett of this record, Ventura - Another Time (amazing rec, one of my faves).  Well the first sealed copy sold on Ebay for $1200.  Now about 200 copies have sold and it's hard to get even $30 for it these days.

Look at Cotton..  the financial cache on that one is falling fast.

Is it possible that games like Dynastic Hero / Magical Chase / Bonk 3 are so rare because the entire stock was never sold ?  They're sitting in a warehouse - some of the very last games produced for a system that most would consider obsolete? 
And do these Redfrog fuckers now own all this shit ?

The only way we (the obsessives, the fans) can win is to NOT support them - don't bid on their auctions - especially not at an inflated price.  Let the stupid $900 auction sit there - just ignore it.  Spread the word.

[PCEngineHell]

TZD mostly had all new stock. Redfrog in general sells used and new items,so the old "ONLY NEW" TZD policy will surely change,at least ebay wise.

[nat]

Is it possible that games like Dynastic Hero / Magical Chase / Bonk 3 are so rare because the entire stock was never sold ?  They're sitting in a warehouse - some of the very last games produced for a system that most would consider obsolete? 

I think most of the copies that were pressed were sold. There weren't all that many pressed of those last handful of games anyway. They all had runs in the 1,500-3,000 range. I know TZD had a few of the big hitters stashed away for a rainy day sale, but it never came to be as a result of the buyout. And it wasn't a great many copies either.

Basically what Redfrog is doing is pricing that stuff so that only a collector (as in, someone who doesn't actually play games) will be able to afford it. A collector will undoubtedly buy it at some point since money isn't as much of an object to them. In the end, it doesn't matter to Redfrog. Redfrog's business stance is very clear-- they are in the business to make the maximum profit possible off this stuff. In the real world, I can understand that. A company exists to make money. What saddens/angers me is that TZD didn't have the patience/heart/whatever to find a buyer who'd keep the Turbo community in mind as "the old" TZD did in the past. Their pricing was always consistent across the board, and they even had fun little sales every now and then that gave players the opportunity to pick up stuff that was normally fairly expensive on the inflated eBay market for cheap. You might be quick to dismiss this as a pipe dream, but if folks like us had stepped forward to buy the remaining inventory we wouldn't be having this problem. I guess in reality, we have only ourselves to blame.

Redfrog is the epitome of your typical jerkoff eBay seller. It's a sad, sad fate to befall the remainder of the TTi stock. And I'm not feeling down about the situation because I didn't "buy all those games when I had the chance" like one of our esteemed members likes to point out every time this comes up. I've got plenty of games-- and most of the "expensive" ones too, out of the way. I'm feeling sad because TZD was a kind of thread that kept the community together long after the system disappeared from the market and people's minds. Newcomers, just getting into the Turbo, had a place to go where they could get reasonably priced new product for their system. Old timers like myself had a place to go when they needed a new AC adapter for their GT or a replacement cable for their pad.  I realize it's unrealistic to hope for that support to continue forever; stock eventually runs out. But this is different. There is still stock remaining, but it's being sold on eBay at a premium, much of it out of the budget of the casual gamer. I'm feeling sad because, like another user pointed out, people looking to sell their old gear on eBay are going to use these ridiculous prices as a market value guide and the inflation problem will continue. I find myself wondering about the TZD website-- why keep it around? You can't order anything from it-- it's just a pretty facade and a reminder of what was. As if to make the "Fuck You" to the community hit home just a little harder. Whoever said to just to ignore them, spread the word, and refuse to buy from them had it right. I know I won't be buying from these jokers, ever. What a bunch of douchebuckets.

[PCEngineHell]

Just checked. Redfrog has been bidding on some TG16/PCE items. Check their buyer status,winner or not.

[Sinistron]

So then either way it sucks.  Either old TZD held titles like this and others off to the side to sell under another name or to beef up the honeypot for RedFrog (can't really say I believe that Dynastic Hero would've been a rainy day look-what-we-found sale item- if anything I can imagine old TZD not wanting to look bad to the Turbo community for charging even the going price for Dynastic Hero which is ridiculous enough) - or Redfrog bought a $400 new Dynastic Hero off of EBay and are selling it for $900 ludicrous ridiculous dollars- as the great new owners of TZD.  Keeping the spirit- for sure.  Funny enough - as a reminder here's something from the old TZD FAQ-

There's always ebay, rec.games.. or find the Turbo Mailing List. But be careful out there! We do not recommend any of these sources 

Funny.  Being that now the new owners are Ebay sellers- and the very worst fucking kind.  Price gouging charlatans and grade A cocks.

Turbo Zone Direct my ASS.  Directly out of hands of sane bidders directly into theirs- back into yours for more than double the going price.

[MurderDate]

so we've got to stick together and support each other.  screw these clowns.   we're the core of the community right here.

[Sinistron]

As Mike brought up in the shoutbox- there ARE fair resellers who keep prices within reason- guys out to make an honest buck- I've bought off of AseMasterTech before for fair prices and he's a good seller who ships quickly- Dean buys his stuff in bulk I'm assuming and at the lowest s&h rates so that everyone wins.  But these guys- Dynastic Hero- asking for more than double the already ludicrous going price- makes me sick.

[PCEngineFX]

THIS OFFICIALLY PISSES ME OFF!

And I don't get upset easily as people know.  I'm going to take action.

[PCEngineHell]

Check your Pm Aaron,get back to me when you can.

[guyjin]

THIS OFFICIALLY PISSES ME OFF!

And I don't get upset easily as people know.  I'm going to take action.

Wow. Between this and Duke Nukem Forever, the apocalypse must be imminent.
run for the hills!  

[PCEngineFX]

I consider this a personal insult to me, the NEC console community here, and to fans all over the world.  I will not stand for this type of price gouging.  I'm seriously fucking pissed off.

[MissaFX]

I consider this a personal insult to me, the NEC console community here, and to fans all over the world.  I will not stand for this type of price gouging.  I'm seriously fucking pissed off.

Lucky for us, Japanese monsters like to attack sites of great pollution.  All the **** spewing out of redfrog's mouth has to be clogging up the sewers for blocks around the TDZ building.
/grrrnr8.jpg

[NecroPhile]

I'm not particularly surprised, nor so easily riled.  I'll stick with buying from respectable sellers with respectable prices.

[SNKNostalgia]

Alright, lets start some shit.

1. Go to other forums and tell them all about their wicked ways.

2. Block them as buyers.

3. Buy up games they bid on and then turn around and sell for the same price you bought.

4. I am running out of ideas, please add.

[Turbo D]

It makes me sick. The old tzd should have sold those games to us. I am very upset with redfrog.

[chop5]

 ](*,)so mad and i was gonna order from tzd site  too mad to type :evil:hate ebay resellers

[Arjak]

I noticed this a few days ago when I saw a sealed copy of Terraforming put up by these guys. I was going to post but, it seems unnecessary now.

A moment of silence for a good company gone bad.

[nat]

A moment of silence for a good company gone bad.

Make no mistake: This is a new company that bought the rights to the name of the old company.

It may look like TZD, but it isn't the TZD you know.

[geise]

Man I had no idea that this thread would bring out all this shit!  I was just slacking at work with nothing to do and said to myself "Hey lets see if there's a version of Dynastic Hero on ebay that I'll never be able to afford!"  Holy hell I didn't know it would be that much.  It's sad I didn't order from TZD back in the mid 90's  I've had my Duo since launch, and I didn't buy those last couple games cause I was a broke High School/College student.  Plus I spent all my money on a Sega Saturn instead in 95.  Now I have the money, but I'd rather pay my mortgage for the month.  Actually that game is just a couple bucks more than my mortgage.  It's just sad that this is how it is.  Fucktards that don't give two shits except taking advantage of someone that cave's cause they want a game so bad that they'll eventually pay that much money.  I seriously doubt that there are really people that collect Duo games just to collect.  It was such a niche console.  If they bought it to brag not I bet 90% of the people would be like "WTF is this shit!?"  It's not like some rare nes game or a freaking "sealed copy" of Chrono Trigger that sold a couple days for around $1,300.  That was popular so collectors will pick that stuff up in a heartbeat.  I was surprised that TZD went out of business.  Just a couple months ago I bought a controller extension cable from them with no problems, and fast shipping.  Why does this have to be this way.  Why the hell didn't Hudson buy them or something.  Someone at TZD was definitely saving these for a rainy day.  Speaking of Hudson I wonder if anyone there would have anything to say about this?  Probably not but thinking how an ass load of their games were sold by them and Hudson was big on the PC-Engine/Duo you never know.

[Kitsunexus]

No game is worth 900 dollars unless it is an arcade machine!

And only a couple of arcade machines fit that criteria, anyway.

[OldRover]

I got a response from them:

If you can provide me links with the last time a sealed one has been up on eBay with the price you claim, I will gladly adjust it.

[JoshTurboTrollX]

It makes me sick. The old tzd should have sold those games to us. I am very upset with redfrog.

Exactly- Why didn't TZD sell off the entire stock?  If they were holding on to some of these Uber rare titles in storage, then they are the BIG sell outs!!

[VestCunt]

I got a response from them:

If you can provide me links with the last time a sealed one has been up on eBay with the price you claim, I will gladly adjust it.

OK, I'm totally with you guys and I'm pissed off and I won't sell to them or buy from them...but, to be devil's advocate on one little point, I have never seen a sealed Dynastic Hero on ebay and I've been keeping an eye on all the Dynastic Hero auctions (which I can't afford) for about five years.  I've also seen complete copies of Magical Chase go for $700-900, although rarely and not in the last couple years.  Anyway, my point is that his absurd price is not completely without context. 

Now to join in the rant,
Redfrog initially started his bidding fairly low and my one hope from this outrageous price gouging on Terreforming, Super Air Zonk, etc. is that these may be signs he's not making as much on his "investment" as he planned.
I frequently hear people say that ebay is overpriced (true) and advise gamers to look elsewhere for better deals.  My question is where?  Unless you're willing to settle for PCE versions, Ebay increasingly IS setting the price for U.S. TurboGrafx games.  I have an extensive list of online stores I've been compiling since 1997 and, with the exception of some sealed games from European ebay sellers in the last year, there are no good deals on this stuff...from reliable sellers (Tellegames UK doesn't seem to actually ship orders).  If redfrog wasn't pulling this shit, someone else would and the problem is bigger than Redfrog.  There are not a lot of sealed Dynastic Hero boxes sitting anywhere, that disc was the last one the real TZD had. 
The only way the price on games like DH is going to go down is if:  1)we all stop collecting and start pirating (unlikely) or 2)something surfaces like the Sapphire bootleg.  I'm not going to settle for the Wii version of DH, but if I can get a disc on my shelf that sort of matches the color of my other labels and won't risk fucking up my system like a CDr, then I'm a happy camper.
Without sounding too much like a motivational speaker, I remember hearing somewhere that rather than trying to fight something you should "make the existing paradigm obsolete."  What are the chances we could show Hudson that there's enough interest to reprint this game or at least grant someone else a license to do so?  I realize Nintendo has a stake in this now with their VC that would probably make things impossible..but, Hudson did reprint DE2 a few years after the system died and with enough consistent pressure it seems that something could happen.

[OldRover]

There will soon be a new auction site for games only. And its owners will be on the lookout for price gougers.

[nat]

I frequently hear people say that ebay is overpriced (true) and advise gamers to look elsewhere for better deals.  My question is where?

My primary sources:

This forum, and the Turbo List. And formerly, TZD.

While these places don't always have ultra-low-OMG sales listed, the people I meet through them are genuine gamers like myself and 98% of them aren't there to price gouge. So when someone has something available, they're willing to make a fair trade or at least offer it at a fair price. I also have a local store that carries Turbo and PCE games. 90% of their prices are lower than eBay, especially on the US Turbo stuff. I realize this isn't an option for many/most people, however.

If you are someone who has no patience, then sure, you're at the mercy of your nearest B.I.N. eBay retailer and whatever premiums they're charging this week. Me, I'm in no hurry in my collecting and the deals seem to find me just fine without too much extra footwork on my part. I've never spent more than $100 on a US Turbo game, and that was for Dungeon Explorer II. I'm sort of sorry I did because even that seems high to me now. Some of the other "heavy" games like Bonk 3, Terraforming, and Beyond Shadowgate all ran me in the $40-$70 range.

[SignOfZeta]

Anyone who loves NEC stuff, wants Dynastic Hero really bad, *must* have the US version, and *must* have shrink wrap is a pretty irrational freak and is just going to have to pay $900 for this sort of thing. And boo fucking hoo to them who have that kind of money to piss away. It certainly doesn't have much of an effect on the poor average guy that just likes to play cool games. The average guy doesn't care about plastic wrap.

Meanwhile I'll just have a JP version for $20 or whatever and blow that remaining $880 on...every single video game thing I'm likely to purchase for the next 3-5 years.

Its probably worth speculating just how many copies of DH the new TZD has. One? Probably. It'll mostly likely sit there on eBay driving up the average price of other DH on eBay, in which case that will effect the average guy, but probably not my much. Being an average guy myself I'll make more practical choices like buying open copies, JP copies, the VC release, or just avoiding the game in general because I'm honestly not that crazy about it.

Two questions keep coming to mind though:

1) Why do US releases have any value at all, let alone 10x the almost always superior JP version? To me US versions of PCE games are like...a SECAM laserdisc of Star Wars dubbed into French. A fucked up inferior derivative or something much cooler in a more original form (ie: the US Star Wars Trilogy LD set in the big black box).

2) Who are these people paying so much money for the stuff? Some of them are here, but I'm pretty sure most of them aren't. It seems like anyone nerdy enough to buy Magical Chase for $400 would be active on the internet (where else would they get the idea that its worth so much?) so where are they hanging out if not on this forum? Neo-Geo.com?

[OldRover]

Not long ago, Aaron himself paid a small fortune for a sealed Magical Chase.

[PCEngineFX]

Not long ago, Aaron himself paid a small fortune for a sealed Magical Chase.

I did, but it sure wasn't $900...

[MurderDate]

for some reason I really kind of doubt they only have the one copy of Dynastic Hero.   if anyone on the planet was going to have multiples it would be them.   

and if they do only have the one copy of DH - you can bet they have TONS of Super Air Zonk / Terraforming
(the difference between an absurdly high starting bid and a low / fair starting bid)

the collector's market - where urban legend can overshadow logic/fact

[Sinistron]

The only way the price on games like DH is going to go down is if:  1)we all stop collecting and start pirating (unlikely) or 2)something surfaces like the Sapphire bootleg. 

Normally I'd be against the bootlegging thing since it wouldn't be fair to the woeful who've paid heavy for some of these games- however- the Sapphire bootleg hasn't exactly brought down the price of the original Sapphire, has it?  Also if the bootleg was made with love by real fans then it wouldn't feel so cheap.  It would be nice to see some expertly crafted bootlegs of at least seven US CD games that are way overpriced- Terraforming, Super Air Zonk, Might & Magic III, Dynastic Hero, Dungeon Explorer II, Cotton and Bonk III.  My girl paid $150 for a DEII CD for me- and the game is great enough that I feel that it's worth it- but that doesn't mean that I feel that everyone should have to pay the same price to play it.  On the other hand, cheap emulations and cheaply burned discs by people who just want to play whatever game as cheaply as possible does not sit right with me.

[MurderDate]

My girl paid $150 for a DEII CD for me- and the game is great enough that I feel that it's worth it- but that doesn't mean that I feel that everyone should have to pay the same price to play it. 

well if only everyone were as cool as you ...

[BigT]

Sealed copies of Dynastic Hero are truly very rare on the market.  I doubt that anyone will pay $899 for it, but I can't blame Red Frog for trying    They are a business and their main goal is to maximize the profit on their investment.  They are not our friends!

This really doesn't affect me because I'd never pay that much for any game unless I truly had unlimited money.

Besides, now if you really want to just play the game, you can get the Japanese version (which I have), buy the Wii VC version ($8), or just download a Bin/cue for free (it's not like Hudson or NEC are going to get a penny of the >$900 you'll pay to Red Frog>

[nat]

Sealed copies of Dynastic Hero are truly very rare on the market.  I doubt that anyone will pay $899 for it, but I can't blame Red Frog for trying    

I can.

It's a slap in the face to the Turbo community. They are toting the TZD name, a name that was built upon an entirely different business principle years before they had anything to do with it. They are using that reputation, that name, and using it to endorse bullshit like this.

[Ceti Alpha]

It's a slap in the face to the Turbo community. They are toting the TZD name, a name that was built upon an entirely different business principle years before they had anything to do with it. They are using that reputation, that name, and using it to endorse bullshit like this.

Agreed. It's pretty scummy to say the least. 

[GUTS]

We're any of you guys really in the market for a sealed Dynastic Hero?  For a game that there's only 1500-3000 copies in existence, I say let somebody with tons of money buy it who isn't going to open it.  I don't see why everyone is so riled up, just buy an open US version for $350 when the next one comes up if you want a US version that bad, or like Zeta said just buy the $10 PCE version.

BTW, there was a Dynastic Hero up for 3 weeks that failed to sell at $350, so I seriously doubt anyone is going to pay $900 for a sealed one.

[BigT]

That's right.  The market for a sealed Dynastic Hero game is so small, that they have as good a chance to sell it for $899 as they would for $499.  Basically, the US market for the Turbo was small to begin with and this game comes from the very end of its, when all but the most loyal users bailed...  Did they even stock it in stores? I never saw one back then.

This is strictly a collector's item.

If I bought it, there would be 0% chance that I would open it...  I'm just unwilling to pay that much for that game...

[SignOfZeta]

Aside from TZD, the only place I knew that you get get DH from was Diehard, and the Diehard in Michigan didn't even stock it...I don't think.