HD-DVD officially dead (finally!)

[Seldane]

A couple of months ago, someone here argued with me that HD-DVD was going to be the winning format... whoever that was, they were wrong.

Now it has finally happened! HD-DVD is now officially dead and buried.

Toshiba just bailed. It's over.

http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/dailynews7.html

Japan's electronics giant Toshiba Corporation will withdraw from high-definition DVD production.

Sources say Toshiba plans to stop producing HD-DVD players and recorders at its plant in Aomori Prefecture, northern Japan, and further development of the products.

The plan will probably be officially decided at the company's board of directors extraordinary meeting early this week.

Toshiba is expected to continue to sell HD-DVD products for a while, and announce support measures for users as soon as the decision is officially made.

Toshiba has been struggling with its version of DVD format, called HD-DVD, in a fierce battle with the Blu-ray format backed by Sony, Panasonic, and Hitachi.

The wide adoption of the Blu-ray format by US movie studios and retailers apparently prompted Toshiba to decide to withdraw from the HD-DVD business.

Electronics firms expect the end of the high-definition DVD race to boost sales of the products.

[Keranu]

Bah I could care less "who" wins as I don't plan on purchasing either format.

[Seldane]

Bah I could care less "who" wins as I don't plan on purchasing either format.

Hell yeah. While I did find this "war" interesting, I have no intention of ever getting either format. I don't even have a DVD player or a VCR, simply because I don't have any DVD movies or whatnot. I think it's crap. I download everything I want to watch (which isn't much).

[CrackTiger]

Isn't this just another "inside source" rumour?

I read about it the other day, but haven't seen any "official" reports yet.

[OldRover]

Wait for an official statement from Toshiba themselves before believing this kind of unofficial report. If said official report never comes, don't be surprised. Besides, the real-world statistics are in direct conflict with what this unofficial report states.

[Joe Redifer]

Bah I could care less "who" wins as I don't plan on purchasing either format.

Yeah, high definition is just a stupid fad and will go away.  People hate clarity!  They want dogshit!

[Keranu]

Bah I could care less "who" wins as I don't plan on purchasing either format.

Yeah, high definition is just a stupid fad and will go away.  People hate clarity!  They want dogshit!

The problem isn't the picture quality, but the movie quality .

[Joe Redifer]

Ha!  True enough.

[Dark Fact]

I believe the final nail in the coffin was Wal-Mart's support for the Blu-Ray format.  When you get a retail giant like Wal-Mart choosing your competition over your own product, you're pretty much fucked.  Here is the news article that states more about the current situation:

BLU-RAY PRIME CHOICE FOR WALLY WORLD!

[SNKNostalgia]

I still go by my old wait for it tactic when DVD came out. Remember when Divx disc and DVD came out around the same time? Of course every one knew DVD would win it. It is funny how the first DVD players from like 96-98 won't play most DVDs due to no dual layer support and not to mention they usually ran like shit anyways. My first DVD player was July 98 in my PC with a Hitachi GD-2000 drive and a shitty decoder card. It ran a lot better when I bought a ATI Rage Pro 32MB with built in decoder. My first actual DVD player was a Sony DVD player from 2000 which just dies a year ago with the lens crapping out. It ran everything fine until it died.

I am probably not going to buy a BR player until the beginning of 09 or so. Three years is usually enough time to sort things out with software and hardware issues. It might as well be a PS3 since it can do more things as well as SACD and has upgradeable firmware unlike standalone players. I guess we will see soon enough.

[turbokon]

I was one of those unfortunate soul that pick up a HD dvd during the holiday season because it was cheap compared to the bu-ray.  I paid $168 bundled with two movies.  I mainly used it as a up-converted dvd player.  RIP HD-DVD

[nat]

Does the PS3 with it's Bluray player also play old-school DVDs (and upscale them)? The PS3 has been looking more and more attractive to me lately.

[NecroPhile]

It's just a matter of time before Toshiba officially announces the death of HD-DVD.  More and more companies are abandoning the format (including Best Buy, Netflix, Warner Bros., Paramount, and New Line), so there's not much reason for them to keep dumping money into a sinking ship.  Bring on the cheap, multi-format players!

Does the PS3 with it's Bluray player also play old-school DVDs (and upscale them)?

Yes, though not as well as a quality stand alone player.

[Joe Redifer]

The PS3 is supposedly one of the best upscaling DVD players EVAR when hooked up with HDMI (no player is allowed to upscale over component).  But it still looks like a DVD.  It can't add detail that's not there.  It will not look like HD source material.  Just don't go expecting the world like a lot of people do when they hear "upscaling DVDs to HDTV resolution".  You must be smarter than that.

The PS3 rules.  Buy one now.  It's probably the best current Blu-Ray player on the market.

[nat]

Thanks. I have a pretty good idea what to expect from upscaled DVD. My current DVD player (hooked up to my HD LCD) is a crusty pile of 7-year-old elephant shit and it gives the second-best-looking video on my HD out of any of the devices hooked up. If I could get even that level of video from my cable TV box and VCR I'd be the happiest pig in shit you'd ever met. All that said, I can see what needs to be improved in the legacy DVD picture to get it to make the grade and I have no doubt upscaling will take care of that. I'm no fool-- I don't expect 1080p HD magically generated from a stinky old DVD.

The PS3 rules.  Buy one now.  It's probably the best current Blu-Ray player on the market.

It's looking more and more like that's gonna happen real quick like. I still don't really have any interest in anything I've seen for the PS3 (the Wii is doing a good job scratching my next-generation itch) but that doesn't mean there won't be something for me in the future. And there's nothing better than a console and movie player all-in-one.

[GUTS]

This is good news, now studios can focus on one format and get all the classics out on Blu-ray like Alien/Aliens and the Indiana Jones trilogy.  I have a hard time watching regular DVDs now since I've been spoiled by blu-ray, even the best DVD transfers look like shit compared to blu-ray.

[Seldane]

Too bad they cant HD-ify old movies like Indiana Jones... It would be neat to see it in real 1080p. Or higher.

[NecroPhile]

Too bad they cant HD-ify old movies like Indiana Jones... It would be neat to see it in real 1080p. Or higher.

What makes you think that they can't?  Nearly every HD-DVD and Blu-Ray title currently available was originally shot on 35mm.  The only reason that Indiana Jones isn't on one of these formats is because Lucas is slow to adopt new mediums (look how long it took for Indiana Jones and Star Wars to be put on DVD).

[guyjin]

poop. I guess people who own HDTVs at this point would want to pay more for their high def discs. 

[Seldane]

Too bad they cant HD-ify old movies like Indiana Jones... It would be neat to see it in real 1080p. Or higher.

What makes you think that they can't?  Nearly every HD-DVD and Blu-Ray title currently available was originally shot on 35mm.  The only reason that Indiana Jones isn't on one of these formats is because Lucas is slow to adopt new mediums (look how long it took for Indiana Jones and Star Wars to be put on DVD).

No, I meant since it is such an old movie... the picture quality won't be as good. At I guess it would be like that. I'm no expert in movie stuff/filming. All I know is that some of the old movies that have come out on HD formats haven't looked much better than a DVD.

[Joe Redifer]

If they took care of the old negatives/answer prints/show prints then they can get a better HD version than movies shot today on 2K digital like Apacalypto.  You may see film grain in a movie like Raiders of the Lost Ark, but grain isn't a bad thing unless it is excessive like in Ghostbusters.

[Dark Fact]

The PS3 rules.  Buy one now.  It's probably the best current Blu-Ray player on the market.

First of all, I will only buy a PS3 when the console finally puts out an attractive game library and second, I buy game consoles to play games, not watch movies.  Give me the meat, not the fucking potatoes!

This is good news, now studios can focus on one format and get all the classics out on Blu-ray like Alien/Aliens and the Indiana Jones trilogy.  I have a hard time watching regular DVDs now since I've been spoiled by blu-ray, even the best DVD transfers look like shit compared to blu-ray.

The biggest gripe I'm having with Blu-Ray players right now is that movie studios and distributors are deliberately shafting regular DVD players with inferior materials just so they can put out brand new prints and better quality on Blu-Ray.  The irony is that we can get this same kind of quality on our regular DVD players but movie studios don't want to do it just so they can get quality whores to pony up for the newer product.  It's a dirty marketing tactic.

[NecroPhile]

The PS3 rules.  Buy one now.  It's probably the best current Blu-Ray player on the market.

Sure it's a great Blu-Ray player, but isn't the 40gb version missing backwards compatibility?  It kinda sucks, but I guess that it's worth an extra Benjamin to be able to play more than a handful of 'good' games.

[Dark Fact]

Sony has been putting out so many different GB models of the PS3 that I've lost track on what's available and what's been cancelled.  Anyone care to clear the air?

[Seldane]

There's only one single PS3 model available. The 40 GB one.

You can play PS1 games of the same region as the system on it. No PS2 games.

[quoth09]

This sucks. Not good news at all. I was honestly hoping for HD-DVD to stay a lot longer, or pull through everything. But I guess consumers are stupid (not surprising). All the stupid marketing hype, and this is what happens. People are attracted more to a blue color than red, and to me, that is the equivalent of a caveman. I don't really give a fuck what color discs I have.

If I ever end up buying BluRay anything, it won't be anytime soon. I will download EVERYTHING once this happens. I download quite a bit now, and have bought the majority that I wanted on standard DVD over the last 7 years, but I have slowly stopped buying DVD's in the last year, because of all of the changeover, not to mention lack of stuff I care to buy anymore. I don't even have an HDTV, aside from my 19" CRT monitor that does 1920x1440, which I have had for about 5 years.

Some of you are probably asking, why am I so against BluRay? I have one word for you.
SONY.

They are nothing but a huge monopoly, and have been for years. Their CEOs are full of themselves (especially the one in charge of PlayStation), they were previously in debt (and probably still are), and were selling off their movie studio due to their stupid decisions, not to mention the result of their rotted Laserdiscs is reason enough for me to be completely opposed to any kind of disc based format that they are behind. While they do make descent electronics most of the time, BluRay is a media format, not a piece of electronic hardware. Not to mention, history repeats itself, as I have already heard of more than 1 BluRay disc rotting. Also, where are UMDs now? Mostly in the clearance bins of any store that still carries them, or marked down to half price. Charging the same amount for a inferior resolution version of something when you can buy the same thing on DVD for cheaper, and convert it over yourself...? Smart move there Sony. Also, both the Wii and the X-Box 360 are beating the PS3 in sales, and have been since inception.

Now don't get me wrong. I own a PlayStation 1, and a PlayStation 2. I have bought plenty of games for both. I have no reason at this time to buy a PlayStation 3, not to mention the games I have seen, are unimpressive, and run like shit (Heavenly Sword is just one good example of ass). Not to mention the whole multiple models crap and issues with each has driven me away from it. Very few games on the console for me at this point. I also have a Sony VCR, I previously had a Sony WEGA 36" CRT TV, that I only got rid of because it weighed almost 250lbs., and it became too much to move.


So for me right now, BluRay is not an option for me. Downloading is. I'm tired of wasting my money because these stupid studios want to release multiple format versions of things, not to mention they want to play games with myself and other consumers. I don't find it funny, and they aren't getting any of my money until they stop fucking around.

If or when I get into the format, and only because it is the only thing on the market, I will buy Japanese releases most likely. Sure, they will be a little bit more pricey, but guess what? Far less Japanese laserdiscs by Sony have rotted to this day, not to mention they always get better packaging and usually better usage of audio and video. I will also end up buying a dual-format player, that plays HD-DVDs, because at that point, HD-DVDs will have dropped down because the rest of the world has deemed them inferior (either that or they will be considered collectors items). I also hope that the price of HD-DVD recordable media and PC drives continue coming down in price, because if they do, and they at least care to support them as a viable PC format, I will buy it and use it. They will eventually hit Dual-Layer HD-DVD if it keeps up on PC.

If the rest of you think that this is great and all the world is well, good for you. Keep on pouring money into the Sony pot. I won't be.

[GUTS]

Yeah but I've watched older movies like Bullit and Unforgiven and they looked way, way better than a DVD, especially Bullit.  Just watched Basic Instinct too and it looked really good, so old movies can look just as awesome as the newer ones on blu-ray.

[quoth09]

The biggest gripe I'm having with Blu-Ray players right now is that movie studios and distributors are deliberately shafting regular DVD players with inferior materials just so they can put out brand new prints and better quality on Blu-Ray.  The irony is that we can get this same kind of quality on our regular DVD players but movie studios don't want to do it just so they can get quality whores to pony up for the newer product.  It's a dirty marketing tactic.

Exactly...if you look at the back of these HD/BD releases, they specifically state (extra features at 480p).
That is DVD resolution. No reason for them to not put it on standard DVD in the form of at least a special edition.

[Joe Redifer]

The biggest gripe I'm having with Blu-Ray players right now is that movie studios and distributors are deliberately shafting regular DVD players with inferior materials just so they can put out brand new prints and better quality on Blu-Ray.  The irony is that we can get this same kind of quality on our regular DVD players but movie studios don't want to do it just so they can get quality whores to pony up for the newer product.  It's a dirty marketing tactic.

Are you trying to say that regular DVD's can do Blu-Ray quality "if the studios wanted to"?  I really, really hope not, as that would not be a smart and informed thing to say.

[NecroPhile]

There's only one single PS3 model available. The 40 GB one.

What about the 80gb Motorstorm pack?  Amazon, Toys R Us, Sears, and K-Mart's respective web sites all claim to have it in stock and ready to ship.  Did it recently get the ax and these stores are just clearing out old stock?  If so, Sony better have plans to add a new model with PS2 compatibility or add it to the 40gb version, or their sales will suck even more than they already do.

[Seldane]

There's only one single PS3 model available. The 40 GB one.

What about the 80gb Motorstorm pack?  Amazon, Toys R Us, Sears, and K-Mart's respective web sites all claim to have it in stock and ready to ship.  Did it recently get the ax and these stores are just clearing out old stock?  If so, Sony better have plans to add a new model with PS2 compatibility or add it to the 40gb version, or their sales will suck even more than they already do.

Sorry, no idea about USA. But I have read that they have stopped producing everything but the 40 GB one. Apparently it is responsible for the skyrocketing PS3 sales (4 million in a three or so months).

Not good news

That's where I stopped reading.

[guyjin]

Are you trying to say that regular DVD's can do Blu-Ray quality "if the studios wanted to"?  I really, really hope not, as that would not be a smart and informed thing to say.

Actually, they can, if you use a DVDROM to store hi-def data. However, the size of a DVD is small enough that multiple disc swapping would be neccesary, which most people are not going to put up with.

[NecroPhile]

Actually, they can, if you use a DVDROM to store hi-def data. However, the size of a DVD is small enough that multiple disc swapping would be neccesary, which most people are not going to put up with.

But DVD-ROMs won't play on a standard DVD player, so what's the point?  MPEG-2 does allow for 1080p and 720p resolutions, but the bit rate is so high that it would be useless and the DVD standard doesn't allow for 'em anyway.  MPEG-4 is supported by a few DVD players, and its bit rate at HD resolutions is about half of a standard DVDs bit rate; I haven't seen anything recorded at this format, but I assume that it would be riddled with artifacts and clearly inferior to the HD mediums.  Any way you slice it, 8.5gb DVD < 30gb HD-DVD < 50gb Blu-Ray.

[SNKNostalgia]

One thing I found to be funny is some movie rentals d/l on Xbox Live 720p are 4 gigs with 5.1 surround included. Clean, but not 1080p though. Pirates 3 was like 7.6 gigs with 5.1 surround, ouch. I found it is cheaper for me to rent with my 360 than to drive 35 min round trip to Blockbuster. Of course, the Netflix mail order is nice and all, but I like to watch a movie right away and I change my mind often.

I usually buy movies that won't see the light of day on HD format for many years or I already own the ones I would buy on HD. Standard DVD movies I bought recently: Fist of Legend (Jet Li), Orgazmo (Trey Parker), The Punisher (Dolph Lundgren) and Split Second (Rutger Hauer). So I am just not really ready yet, and I don't want to spoil myself to make DVD look like  what VHS looks like to me now.

[Seldane]

One thing I found to be funny is some movie rentals d/l on Xbox Live 720p are 4 gigs with 5.1 surround included. Clean, but not 1080p though. Pirates 3 was like 7.6 gigs with 5.1 surround, ouch. I found it is cheaper for me to rent with my 360 than to drive 35 min round trip to Blockbuster. Of course, the Netflix mail order is nice and all, but I like to watch a movie right away and I change my mind often.

I usually buy movies that won't see the light of day on HD format for many years or I already own the ones I would buy on HD. Standard DVD movies I bought recently: Fist of Legend (Jet Li), Orgazmo (Trey Parker), The Punisher (Dolph Lundgren) and Split Second (Rutger Hauer). So I am just not really ready yet, and I don't want to spoil myself to make DVD look like  what VHS looks like to me now.

Ever heard of The Pirate Bay?

[GUTS]

^^ We get it dude, you're a huge pirate, you don't have to remind everyone every 2 seconds.

[NigazAllucard]

This sucks. Not good news at all. I was honestly hoping for HD-DVD to stay a lot longer, or pull through everything. But I guess consumers are stupid (not surprising).

REALLY sucks...BETAMAX finally wins .

Some of you are probably asking, why am I so against BluRay? I have one word for you.
SONY.

I laugh here. 

They are nothing but a huge monopoly, and have been for years. Their CEOs are full of themselves (especially the one in charge of PlayStation),

The TRUE.
 

Now don't get me wrong. I own a PlayStation 1, and a PlayStation 2. I have bought plenty of games for both. I have no reason at this time to buy a PlayStation 3, not to mention the games I have seen, are unimpressive, and run like shit (Heavenly Sword is just one good example of ass).

LOL again.. PS1 was very special to me..ff7...CSOTN..was a great system with a LOT of good and classic games however with  a bad hardware conception.I cant forget how I used to run my games in my psx upside down. that fucking optical unit.

I have a ps2 too but especially for exclusive games... like SOTC ,Kingdom hearts...and GOW.

So for me right now, BluRay is not an option for me.

Isn't for anyone.We being forced to. Anyway..thats the way it is.
Ill buy a ps3 when gow 3, and TEAM ICO launching something... until then..isn't a worth buy to me.

[SignOfZeta]

If they took care of the old negatives/answer prints/show prints then they can get a better HD version than movies shot today on 2K digital like Apacalypto.  You may see film grain in a movie like Raiders of the Lost Ark, but grain isn't a bad thing unless it is excessive like in Ghostbusters.

I actually had a chance to watch a print of Raiders in 2002 or so that was in *amazingly* good shape. I'm not sure what the story was behind that thing, or where it has been all those years.

Yeah, anyway, a full budget movie of from any period talkies on up demands at *least* 1080p. 35mm is way way beyond DVD. I think what makes people forget (or in the case of younger people who only go to mall theaters, never know in the first place) what a good print looks like is that new films are all cranked out of a super high speed process so that everything can have the largest opening day possible. Prints of new films pretty much look like grainy shit. I remember seeing Return of the King in the theater and just being appalled by how shit it looked. It looks better on DVD, and that just shouldn't be the case.

[Tatsujin]

Bah I could care less "who" wins as I don't plan on purchasing either format.

haha..as long as i gettin' my "HD-Torrents".

[SignOfZeta]

This sucks. Not good news at all. I was honestly hoping for HD-DVD to stay a lot longer, or pull through everything. But I guess consumers are stupid (not surprising).

The death of HD DVD has nothing to do with consumers. Very few people comparatively bought either format, it was the studios and retailers that killed the format...and quickly. Two months ago HD DVD was doing fine, and if we are supposed to think that there wasn't some sleazy back room shenanigans going on with Sony motivating this then they take us for morons.

[Ceti Alpha]

Sorry, no idea about USA. But I have read that they have stopped producing everything but the 40 GB one. Apparently it is responsible for the skyrocketing PS3 sales (4 million in a three or so months).

Meh, and I'd say about 3.5 million of those people are pissed when they get home and realize that they can't play their PS2 games. That was really scummy of Sony and just plain stupid. How many PS3s do they actually have out and which are backwards compatible...oh wait...I don't even care to know. 

I for one couldn't really care less about this lame format war. There is virtually no difference between Blue Ray and HD except that Blue Ray seems to cost more....for now. All I know is that I keep hearing that "the format war is OVER!!", and yet it still seems to go on and on and on....

Reminds me a little of something else....hmmm.....



I'd say that by the time someone actually "wins" this format war there will already be another format out. 

[Dark Fact]

Are you trying to say that regular DVD's can do Blu-Ray quality "if the studios wanted to"?  I really, really hope not, as that would not be a smart and informed thing to say.

If that's not the case, then prove me wrong.  Personally, I'm just sick of tired of stores and studios gushing over the Blu-Ray like it is the second coming of Christ.  What's so "revolutionary" about it aside from it having greater storage space and sharper image and clearer sound? If that's revolutionary, we can see this same kind of crap happen again 10 years from now with even greater storage and even sharper picture.  If you want revolutionary, find a way for us to watch our movies in a new media format that doesn't look like a disc and makes the DVD look outdated like the MP3 player vs the CD Player.

[Tatsujin]

with more advanced decompression algorithms, today you may bring a much better quality on a DVD (4.7GB) as with the present used MPEG2 decompression. a good decompressed DVD can be reduced to a quater of its space with almost the same quality. so may be the same could be said now about HD-DVD/Bluray, since a DVD today could be almost compressed down to a CD. but i believe that the imense bigger space of a bluray, coulnd't be compensated with a DVD, even using the best decompression possible.

since the resolution and sharpness of todays HD-televisions will still arise, the media have to follow as well. DVD on HD-TV just doesn't fit anymore. on a low-res CRT it doesn't matter!

[termis]

I wonder when we'll get decent amount of completely uncompressed video & audio fitting into an optical disc? (Or at the very least, lossless video).

[Joe Redifer]

If that's not the case, then prove me wrong.

Part of what I do for a living is author DVDs.  Video DVDs can only contain MPEG2 video and can only be 480p or 480i resolution.  That is NOT the same quality as Blu-Ray.  Blu-Ray also offers uncompressed sound which is at a higher resolution than anything afforded by DVD.  Nobody is making shitty DVDs on purpose.  DVD movies released these days look great considering the format.  There are no shenanigans going on with the A/V quality of the format.

What's so "revolutionary" about it aside from it having greater storage space and sharper image and clearer sound?

Who says it is supposed to be revolutionary?  It is more "evolutionary" and HDTV is a big leap over SDTV.  DVD itself didn't even offer that big of a jump over VHS as Blu-Ray does over DVD... it was still standard definition. DVD = 720x480 vs about 300x480 for VHS.  Blu-Ray = 1920x1080 vs 720x480 for DVD.  The only extra thing DVD offered was menus (who cares?) and selectable special features.  What more would you have Blu-Ray add? 

with more advanced decompression algorithms, today you may bring a much better quality on a DVD (4.7GB) as with the present used MPEG2 decompression. a good decompressed DVD can be reduced to a quater of its space with almost the same quality.

You'd still need all new players to decode the new compression scheme.  The DVD video standard is already maxed out.  Also DVDs are 8.6 real gigs (or 9.4 GB if you count to 1000 instead of 1024).



As for audio and video improving again and again, there is a limit to how much the human eyeball can discern and the ear can hear.  I wouldn't worry too much.  The same people were freakin' about about DVD when it came to be.  Nothing is being forced.  If nobody buys Blu-Ray then it would be stupid for studios to keep spending money on it.

[SignOfZeta]

I wonder when we'll get decent amount of completely uncompressed video & audio fitting into an optical disc? (Or at the very least, lossless video).

That came out ages ago. It was called Muse, and nobody bought it because it was hella expensive.

The problem with making a new format is that convenience is more important than quality. The CD is 25 years old, yet sadly its still the best sounding mainstream format...and its dying because people are buying 128kbs AACs from iTunes. People want the shitty sounding stuff because it fits into a smaller package. Example: Dark Fact up there that seems to be indicating that MP3 players are an advancement over CD players. Technologically they are, but most kids are listening to ultra shit quality 128kbs MP3. The best quality audio I can get on my iPod is a CD encoded to something that sounds as good as CD (wav, aiff, Apple Lossless). Almost without exception I can't get anything better than CD, which is sad because CD isn't even very good. Hell, my home computer can record 24-bit 96khz stereo uncompressed, but I can't buy anything that high quality because SACD and DVDA are flop formats with almost no titles worth purchasing. WTF?

I think one of many mistakes in the HD war is marketing these new formats as mainstream instead of connoisseur formats. Every since DVD came out I've been interested in the next thing. DVD wasn't actually an improvement over LD in every way. It was a somewhat lateral movement. Its better in some ways, but the real advantages over LD are the connivence and price. The things are small and cheap as hell, and so are the players. You don't have to flip them like LDs, or rewind them like tapes. They are so cheap that you don't have to take care of then like an LD that costs $40-100. Just buy another one for $10 when you scratch the hell out of it like a slob. Those are the reasons why DVD took off, and those sorts of changes aren't present in BR/HDDVD. In fact, BR and HDDVD are less convenient because ripping them is nearly impossible, there are no portable players (save $1800 laptops from Sony), etc.

The format war is over. I'm not happy that Sony came out on top, but oh well. I expect Toshiba to offer a dual format player quiet soon. They are going to have to make BluRay players eventually, so they might as well throw HDDVD playback in there for free.

[Keranu]

DVD wasn't actually an improvement over LD in every way. It was a somewhat lateral movement. Its better in some ways, but the real advantages over LD are the connivence and price. The things are small and cheap as hell, and so are the players. You don't have to flip them like LDs, or rewind them like tapes. They are so cheap that you don't have to take care of then like an LD that costs $40-100.

I agree with you somewhat. I think the average LD costs less than the average DVD actually. There are lots of collector LDs out there for anime nerds and stuff, but for people like me who just buy typical movies on LD, they're like a buck each online (but high-ish shipping). I personally don't mind flipping discs and kind of enjoy it actually (like old fashion breaks in theaters), even though there are dual sided players which make things a little easier.

But you're absolutely right: DVDs are cheap as hell, both the media and the players. I love my Panasonic LX-21 LD player because you can tell a lot of care went into the design for a very sturdy product, but I've come across so many DVD players that look like the companies just didn't give a damn. I've never had a LD skip or anything on me, but I've seen DVDs skip and make awfully annoying screetches several times because of a tiny scratch (it's even happened to brand new DVDs).

Another thing I hate about DVDs is how phony they are. With LD, you get true film transfers to match the original, but DVDs digitally encode the films and then try "touching up" on them with "digital enchancements" just ruining the original picture, not to mention the annoyance of digital artifact that likes to rear it's ugly head. I also hate it when DVDs add borders to a film and try selling it off as widescreen or do a awful job cropping the picture (example: Back to the Future triology).

Ever since I got into LD, I've pretty much figured I won't ever have to buy a DVD again unless it's something that's only available on DVD or something special like that. There are also old movies that aren't available on DVD and I imagine even less will be available with the new formats coming out and since I rarely come across a new movie I enjoy, I'm pretty much set with LD . In the odd cases that there is a new movie I like, I'll just download it.

[quoth09]

Not good news

That's where I stopped reading.

Too bad they cant HD-ify old movies like Indiana Jones... It would be neat to see it in real 1080p. Or higher.

Ever heard of The Pirate Bay?

These 3 quotes from this thread alone, prove that you obviously know nothing about movies, movie studios, transfers or anything else about the industry, not to mention you are nothing but a pirate that has no insight past their download speed. I modified this post from what I originally said, because I had completely forgotten that you were the one that I have heard other people talk about being a pirate so much on here. Completely slipped my mind, so I apologize for not remembering this sooner.

So, you just keep on downloading, and spewing out ignorance. You have no say in any of which format succeeds or doesn't last. People like you never put any money anywhere, and all you do is nay-say any hope of what could be good or well off, based on what company you think is 'cool'.

Now those who have been paying attention, could say I'm doing the same thing, by saying that all I'm going to do is download now. But here is the difference, I'm what you call a smart consumer. I've already been buying DVDs for 7 years or more, not to mention I am also into laserdisc collecting for about the same amount of time. I'm tired of spending endless amounts of money, just because these movie companies/studios decide what format makes it, and what new technology has to supersede the previous, that myself and others have already invested in. Leaving people high and dry is no way to treat a consumer, and it does nothing but piss people like myself off. They offer no upgrade programs, and throw the same old recycled shit in our faces, and I'm tired of it.

When they decide to start doing things right again, and I decide to jump into the market again, I will put my money where my mouth is, like I always have. Until then I will be using my money towards back releases, and other things like video games/arcade boards/laserdiscs, that won't get outdated, due to a format war.

[SignOfZeta]

I agree with you somewhat. I think the average LD costs less than the average DVD actually.

Well, now yeah. When LD was still a living format though $25 was considered a budget release, and on DVD that's almost as expensive as it gets. My most expensive LD (Macross: DYRL Perfect Edition CAV) had a price of 14,369 yen. $140 For one 2 hour film! My Aliens and Schindlers Lists boxes were something like $100 each.

I bought a batch of LDs when I was in Cali last summer. Great deals. I got both 2001 and 2010 as well as Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, and some other stuff. I also got a copy of The Jerk that was so old it said Discovision on it. Its of an *extremely* low quality. Pan and scanned and very blurry. Most of the stuff I bought was under $5 though, so LD is a great format to collect. Its kind of like vinyl at this point, except much harder to find.

[quoth09]

This sucks. Not good news at all. I was honestly hoping for HD-DVD to stay a lot longer, or pull through everything. But I guess consumers are stupid (not surprising).

The death of HD DVD has nothing to do with consumers. Very few people comparatively bought either format, it was the studios and retailers that killed the format...and quickly. Two months ago HD DVD was doing fine, and if we are supposed to think that there wasn't some sleazy back room shenanigans going on with Sony motivating this then they take us for morons.

Pretty much, and that is the point. There is no reason it should be dying. Kinda funny that there was an investigation last year into Sony paying companies to only release titles on BluRay. Now you hear nothing about it.
That's not fishy or anything... 

It also doesn't help that Wal-Mart (another monopoly) stopped carrying HD-DVD. Ma and Pa bumpkin only buy what is there.