Turbografx third parties

PC Gaijin · 06/07/2006, 05:39 PM

One of the weaknesses of the Turbo was its lack of third party support. Certainly the PC Engine had a wealth of support in Japan, and NEC licensed and published many games for the Turbo in the US, but third party publishers seemed to be thin on the ground over here. Can anyone shed some light on why this happened? Of course, after a few years when it was obvious the Turbo wasn't catching on the lack of third parties is understandable, but early on the Turbo seemed like a better bet than the Genesis (prior to the release of both consoles in the US). I'm wondering why Sega was able to attract a lot of third party support in the 89-91 time frame while NEC didn't. Was it due to NEC wanting to maintain control over publishing titles? Nintendo's policies might have had something to do with this, but then again Sega was able to attract a lot of licensees (granted, not the big name publishers until well after the Genesis had become successful). Even with the Western development that the Turbo got, NEC published most of the titles.

So who were the Turbo third parties? Here's a few that I can think of:

Working Designs

IGS (whatever happened to Astralius?)

Tengen (I think they published Klax, but nothing else ever materialized)

Radiance (Sidearms, then nothing but developing the Disney games which were published by NEC)

Accolade (not sure, but I think they published Turrican, other titles seemed to be licensed to NEC)

Ninja Spirit · 06/07/2006, 07:54 PM

I think most of them were under contract of Nintendo, not to make for any other systems than NES.

CrackTiger · 06/08/2006, 10:14 PM

I've heard that NEC was pretty lazy when it came to signing 3rd parties and that they didn't get anyone signed until well after the TG-16 launch and that it then took a long time after that for them to get their games out.

The thing that pissed me off back in the day and just saddens me now, is that NEC/TTI could've done well enough on their own modern-Nintendo-style, if they'd just brought out only good games from the huge library that Hudson alone had.

It didn't matter if a company like Konami was stingy with their games, there were more than enough quality titles from the publishers who were willing to license to NEC.

Especially early on, before the Genesis' library started to climb into the 100's.

ParanoiaDragon · 06/08/2006, 10:50 PM

There was another company, I think called Kid's Creations, or something like that, which were working on The Riftwar Saga, but, it could be they were just developing for NEC.

Dark Fact · 06/10/2006, 12:32 AM

The people here who mentioned Nintendo one of the nails on the head. Nintendo had garnered infamy for their strict contractual obligations to third-party developers. The deal with Nintendo was: if you make games for Nintendo, you make games ONLY for Nintendo. Make games for anyone else and the big N will come after your ass.

Lord knows how many more games could've come out for the NEC Turbografx 16 and Turbo CD had developers not been bound by Nintendo's chains.

esteban · 06/15/2006, 02:26 PM

Quote from: "Dark Fact"The people here who mentioned Nintendo one of the nails on the head. Nintendo had garnered infamy for their strict contractual obligations to third-party developers. The deal with Nintendo was: if you make games for Nintendo, you make games ONLY for Nintendo. Make games for anyone else and the big N will come after your ass.

Lord knows how many more games could've come out for the NEC Turbografx 16 and Turbo CD had developers not been bound by Nintendo's chains.

While this was true, I think CrackTiger was making a different point: Back in the day, NEC/TTi could have been successful in the same manner that Nintendo is successful with the Gamecube today: Nintendo doesn't have tons of third-party support, but the first-party games they realease (and the licensed games they distribute) are solid enough to make the system viable and desirable (for folks who love games). In fact, I'd go further and suggest that NEC/TTi were actually in a better position, since they had a vast library of Japanese games to tap into.

-------
Back on topic, I think ICOM Simulations might be added to the list? Although someone told me once they simply developed for NEC (who published), as far as the TG-16 was concerned.

Also, here's something that was sitting on my harddrive for at least 6-8 months, so I thought I'd share it:

Quote from: "sneak peak at stuff from my new site"WINTER CES '91: PECULIARITIES
Coverage of Winter CES '91 is the only thing to get really excited about in this issue, unfortunately. In fact, several titles are discussed that, ultimately, were never released for TG-16, such as: Discis Book (a port of a PC / Mac CD-ROM educational title), Super Big Strategy (an installment of Daisenryaku, a popular war strategy series), Astralius (an RPG from IGS), and ... are ready for it?

No, seriously, are you ready for it? Can you guess the fourth game that was announced but never released? Did I hear somebody scream Pit Fighter?

"Atari Games' super arcade hit will come to the TurboGrafx-16 courtesy of Tengen. Following the crowd, Tengen intends to pack all the digitized graphics of the arcade version on CD for release in the fall of 1991."

Yes! Pit Fighter is listed as one of the upcoming games for autumn of 1991. Now, before you start giggling, let us recall that this fad (digitized graphics in fighting games) was still all the rage at this time. Yes, it was a gimmick. And yes, Pit Fighter was a mediocre arcade game, at best. But let's forget these minor details and allow ourselves to imagine just how great the TG-16 port could have been ...

TENGEN, THE THIRD PARTY THAT NEVER WAS
Tengen had already released a great port of KLAX (HuCard) for TG-16. And we now know that Tengen had been working on another puzzle-action game -- Off the Wall (HuCard) -- which was never released in 1992 as intended (but the prototype exists). Given this information, it seems plausible that Tengen was considering to port Pit Fighter (and possibly other titles) to the TG-16... so what happened? Was Tengen worried about disappointing TG-16 software sales (how well had the KLAX HuCard sold for them)? Perhaps Tengen's resources were tied-up in extraneous legal troubles (the ongoing Tengen vs. Nintendo turmoil)? Or, did TurboGrafx-CD simply lack a user base large enough for Tengen realize their desired profit margin?

Whatever the reason was, I still mourn the loss of Pit Fighter for TG-CD. Actually, I'm not entirely joking. Tengen could have been a phenomenal third-party publisher for the TG-16. And, considering how popular the beat-em-up genre was at the time, Pit Fighter might have sold pretty well for Tengen (especially since TG-16 was starved for beat-em-ups). Also, I might as well be honest with you: I remember when my brother Mike and I first saw Pit Fighter in the arcade: we thought it was the koolest thing around. Oy! Those were the days...

Ultimately, KLAX would be the sole title Tengen brought to the TG-16. As such, Tengen joined the ranks of Accolade (Turrican, HuCard) and Radiance Software (Sidearms, HuCard) as the least prolific third parties for TG-16. They published only one game apiece.

IGS, THE THIRD PARTY THAT WAS
Since we're on the subject of games that were announced but never released, let's discuss Astralius (Mateki Densetsu Astralius, 1991, CD). Supposedly, IGS had actually started the localization of this RPG before pulling the plug on the project altogether. Now this was truly a shame, since it looked like a promising title (i.e. the storyline and puzzles had musical motifs, somewhat similar to Loom from Lucas Arts).

IGS was one of first third-party publishers for TG-16, and with four TG-16 titles already under their belt (Sonic Spike, Tricky Kick, Sinistron and CyberCore), it seemed as if Astralius actually had a chance of making it over here. Of course, unlike the HuCard games IGS released for TG-16, localizing a CD-ROM RPG like Astralius would have been significantly more expensive and labor-intensive (i.e. translating all the in-game text, recording new voice-acting for the cinemas, etc.). I wouldn't be surprised if IGS was worried about their ability to realize a return on their investment with a project like Astralius.

NOTE: I have yet to play Astralius (I own it, but I can't get passed the main menu for some reason... perhaps my RAM is full?) and I have since learned from good authorities (Kaminari! for one) that Astralius was a pretty stinky game (or at least the game mechanics were really frustrating). The processes weren't streamlined, it seems, and doing stuff seemed to take longer than it could have. That was my understanding, anyway.

So, the point is that when I update this article, I might not be mourning the loss of Astralius

. Although, I still wish it came out. So maybe my feeling s are not going to change drastically.

Keranu · 06/16/2006, 12:46 AM

I remember totally being amazed by that Astralius game after reading episodes of Turbo Play from your site, Steve, because I had no idea what that game was before. Turbo Play sure made that game sound exciting and I am still very interested in playing it.

esteban · 06/16/2006, 01:24 AM

Quote from: "Keranu"I remember totally being amazed by that Astralius game after reading episodes of Turbo Play from your site, Steve, because I had no idea what that game was before. Turbo Play sure made that game sound exciting and I am still very interested in playing it.

I know, IIRC they said it was "way bigger" than Ys (in terms of world- / dungeon- size) and the whole "music" motif is really kool (IMO).

Why won't Astralius play for me, though? I click to start a game from the menu screen, but I get a black screen with an "(error) message" and dumped back at the main menu. Selecting "continue" doesn't help. I guess I'll have to clean out the RAM and see what happens...

Keranu · 06/16/2006, 01:27 AM

Yes, I recall something about Turbo Play saying that Astralius would be way bigger than Ys as well. It really interested me reading that though because not only did it sound epic, but they had these neat screenshots of the cinemas and the screenshots alone made it look like a big game

. It was really amazing for me because I hadn't even heard of the game before! To top it off, I tried finding more info on it afterwards, but found nothing except the release date and the kick ass cover art, which made me only more interested.

akamichi · 06/16/2006, 12:57 PM

I might have to pop in the game and see what it's about.

Actually, I've been going through my old magazines recently too. What's odd is that IGS seemed to have had a decent line up when they were putting out games. The sad thing is that they basically disappeared (bankruptcy?) overnight... at least my my point of view.

I don't know if their games sold well overall, but they did seem to be an underdog company. What I can say for sure is that their games always caught my eye.

Face and UPL where other companies that seemed to be in the same boat as IGS. Basically, a few releases right at the beginning, and then poof, gone.

esteban · 06/16/2006, 01:47 PM

Quote from: "akamichi"I might have to pop in the game and see what it's about. Actually, I've been going through my old magazines recently too. What's odd is that IGS seemed to have had a decent line up when they were putting out games. The sad thing is that they basically disappeared (bankruptcy?) overnight... at least my my point of view.

I don't know if their games sold well overall, but they did seem to be an underdog company. What I can say for sure is that their games always caught my eye.

Face and UPL where other companies that seemed to be in the same boat as IGS. Basically, a few releases right at the beginning, and then poof, gone.

Yup, I feel the same way as you. I'm guessing that Cybercore / Violent Soldier might have sold decently for them (they even had an x68000? version of Cybercore). Then again, with so much competition in the PCE shooter genre, maybe not.

Who did Gomola Speed? It was UPL / Face, right? That friggin' awesome game needed more sequels, if only with minor changes (i.e. aesthetics) and new levels.

Gomola Speed = one of the most underappreciated (or least known) gems on the PCE. You folks have any history on the game? Similar games (the only thing that comes to mind are the ascii games... like Snake... and games like Qix)?

Keranu · 06/17/2006, 01:54 AM

Gomola Speed rocks hard and back on one of the older Turbo Boards, I was happy to see that I was not the only one to appreciate that game ;) . Highly original gameplay, fun, challenging, and kick ass music.

_Paul · 06/17/2006, 04:15 AM

Gomola Speed is best played through emulation with e PS2 analogue stick...much easier to do the circling

esteban · 06/17/2006, 04:57 AM

Quote from: guestGomola Speed is best played through emulation with e PS2 analogue stick...much easier to do the circling

Haha! I always feel like I am abusing the hell out of the pad when I play that game. Circling is tough... you'll get blisters

akamichi · 06/18/2006, 03:02 AM

Quote from: "stevek666"Yup, I feel the same way as you. I'm guessing that Cybercore / Violent Soldier might have sold decently for them (they even had an x68000? version of Cybercore). Then again, with so much competition in the PCE shooter genre, maybe not.

That might have been a lot competition when Violent Soldier came out, but I'm not sure if that was the case with Cybercore. Back when Cybercore came out (early 90s) there weren't that many PCE games out. There were only about 15 or so shooters at the time (about 80 total games). As for shooters, the big names were Fantasy Zone, Dragon Spirit, Heavy Unit, Space Harrier, Kyuukyouku Tiger, Mr. Heli, Side Arms, etc. I thought Cybercore got a decent amount of coverage in magazines. I remember drooling over the pictures.

Anyway, for whatever reason, IGS never got "big" in the PCE scene. It's kinda sad because their games were good, maybe not great, but there are much worse games on PCE (Pack in video anyone?). IMO, IGS started out on the right foot. Cybercore was an interesting game. It was early in the PCE's life so it had a chance to get recognized. Ultimately, I think the conversions of arcade games + being a "nobody" in the realm of Taito, Sega, and Namco shooters probably did hurt their chances.

What's funny about the companies I mentioned is that Taito hardly made any original PCE games (Aurelia is the only one that comes to mind). Namco never made a CD game. Of course Sega never made games for PCE, but the only ones to come over to PCE were arcade titles.

QuoteWho did Gomola Speed? It was UPL / Face, right? That friggin' awesome game needed more sequels, if only with minor changes (i.e. aesthetics) and new levels.

UPL did Gomola Speed and Atomic Robo Kid. Face made those Power Ranger style games: Cyber Cross and Cross Wiber. Face also did the Hanii games.

I never played Gomola Speed, but I always wanted a sequel to Atomic Robo Kid.

esteban · 06/18/2006, 04:34 PM

akamichi, thanks for the scoop on the early PCE (shooter) scene and your thoughts on IGS. Lots of fun to read

Keranu · 06/19/2006, 12:05 AM

Just so everyone knows, Cyber Cross and Cross Wiber are awesome games, seriously. Cross Wiber especially since it's more playable and has some really cool levels.

Odonadon · 06/19/2006, 12:27 AM

Quote from: "Keranu"Just so everyone knows, Cyber Cross and Cross Wiber are awesome games, seriously. Cross Wiber especially since it's more playable and has some really cool levels.

I have to honestly say that Cyber Cross is one of the worst games I have ever played - for any system. Maybe it's just me but I thought it was garbage

I didn't think Cross Wiber was too much better either.

OD

Ninja Spirit · 06/19/2006, 12:38 AM

I liked Cyber Cross, just for the soundtrack sounding like it came off the NES/Famicom.
Wasn't Shiryou Sensen/War of the Dead supposed to come here also?

Keranu · 06/19/2006, 08:03 PM

Those Cross games have awesome music, I have watched the opening to Cyber Cross a billion times just for the song.

PC Gaijin · 06/28/2006, 12:22 AM

ICOM's games were published by NEC if I remember right. They would be equivalent to what people call a "second party" nowadays along with Cinemaware. (An aside, I've never liked that definition for second party, it used to mean user-written software dammit!

) At any rate, they were captive developers.

And yeah, I know about the whole Nintendo third party exclusivity thing as I mentioned in my original post. As Black Tiger said, I'm more curious why NEC never attracted some of the more obscure third parties like Sega did with the Genesis in the first couple of years before the SNES hit the scene. A tell-all book on how NEC handled the Turbo like the books that cover Nintendo would be very interesting, of course there's probably not a dozen people who would be interested in such a thing.

Didn't IGS survive into at least the late 90s? I thought they released a couple of arcade shooters in that time. Or was that a totally different company from the one that published on the Turbo?

esteban · 06/28/2006, 02:37 AM

Quote from: "PC Gaijin"ICOM's games were published by NEC if I remember right. They would be equivalent to what people call a "second party" nowadays along with Cinemaware. (An aside, I've never liked that definition for second party, it used to mean user-written software dammit! ) At any rate, they were captive developers.

And yeah, I know about the whole Nintendo third party exclusivity thing as I mentioned in my original post. As Black Tiger said, I'm more curious why NEC never attracted some of the more obscure third parties like Sega did with the Genesis in the first couple of years before the SNES hit the scene. A tell-all book on how NEC handled the Turbo like the books that cover Nintendo would be very interesting, of course there's probably not a dozen people who would be interested in such a thing.

Didn't IGS survive into at least the late 90s? I thought they released a couple of arcade shooters in that time. Or was that a totally different company from the one that published on the Turbo?

Good stuff. I'd pre-order that book, by the way

What arcade titles were you thinking about? Sounds interesting... and there is a chance it could be the same company, since IGS made Sinistron and Cybercore... though I don't know how likely it is...