Taking my Duo out of storage

[MNKyDeth]

I will be going to my dads later today and getting my TurboDuo out of storage. It was in a box in a closet for the past 15-20yrs. I have been doing some extensive research on the Duo for problems that plague the system.

I plan on doing a full cap replacement on it. However I have seen two ways to do this. I believe from what I have seen GameTechUS on youtube has a very good way of going about doing this. He has two vids though one using regular caps and another using ceramic.

What in you're opinions is the better way to go for this?

I am leaning toward the non ceramic caps as those are similar to what the Duo originally had. But the ceramics if there are no issues at all going that route imo is a better solution for longevity and simplicity. I would really like input on this as if ceramics are the better option I would want to try and match the caps a bit better and use class 1 ceramics.

If going ceramic, would matching the voltages etc of them be better or is it not needed? Like he used the 6.3v ones in the vid.

Just for reference.
Non-ceramic

Ceramic

Also, I am confident my soldering skills are up to this task, but when doing this mod should I do other things while I have the Duo opened? Like, should I replace the HOP-M3 Laser pickup and the 9v motor, just for the sake of making them new?

The next major thing I have been thinking of doing is trying to change the video out on this console to something other than composite. I have read the thread here on the forums for the RGB-to-YPbPr/Component Circuit & Mod. I feel this may be a slight bit over my head. I understand most of it but have never done anything like that so I feel uncomfortable with it.

However since I know I can do the soldering part of that job are there any pre-made parts available for something like that out there? I most likely am open to ideas for a nice upgrade in video quality if possible even if it is not in that specific format. HDMI, s-video, anything that I can do or possibly do that is better than straight component. I am planning to hook the console up to my computer with a capture card so before I purchase that I want to make sure I have my video output as good as I can get it and buy the card according to the type of output I have.

I love this console as it has always been my favorite from when I was a teenager.
Any info or links to my questions is greatly appreciated.

Edit: Final

Pics are basically from start to finish. I didn't include them all, just the ones that told a story.

1. My Duo.


2. When my Duo was made.


3. Before the caps came off.


4. Ceramic cap next to a pen.


5. The corrosion OMG, WTF BBQ Sauce.


6. Close up of possibly the worst cap on my board.


7. Cap is removed, those pads lifted when I applied heat to them to clean them.


8. The trace I wrecked, I was very angry with myself. I freaked out for a couple minutes wondering what I was going to do to fix it.


9. There are little bumps of solder sticking out of some traces. I followed where the trace went and found some within range of the legs of the cap. I will most likely redo this when my wire comes in as I would like to reduce any stress on those incredibly small bumps of solder from the traces. The one leg is connected to the trace that runs under the #2 in R929


10. My board, completed. There is one old cap still on the board as I dropped one of my ceramic caps. I however spent another 45min after getting my system to work digging through my carpet very methodically. I found it and that old cap has been replaced.


Edit 2:

Controllers... My controllers seemed to work well after my full system recap. I started swapping my controllers back and forth as I played to make sure they were both the same feeling as I thought one might have had a delay in it compared to the other.

Well, some more pics to tell the story with.

1. I opened up both controllers. One looked way more used, older than the other. Although I have had them both since the day I got my Duo, some 20-23yrs ago. The main thing of notice was the turbo slider switches.


2. I cleaned up the metal on the entire piece making sure not to bend the contacts at all.


3. The cleaned up piece with the tool I used. It is a fiberglass scratch brush. I am sure there might be something better to clean it with but it seemed to work very good. My controller actually felt better than the one I didn't clean up so I opened that one up as well and there was some tarnish on those contacts as well just not near as bad. Both my controllers feel the same now. So if you have any laggy feeling in the controller this might be causing it.

[cjameslv]

I used the ceramic ones on my duo. They work great and look even better. Definitely recommend them. Bought them all from mouser electronics, believe it ran around $17 bucks and took a week or two to get them.

[MNKyDeth]

Ok, well, I got home and hooked the TurboDuo up to my LG 42" 720p plasma tv. At first everything seemed to be working just fine.

I had put in Dragon Slayer: The Legend of Heroes. It started playing the cd just fine and the audio was good. After the first part of the intro movie when it finally went to the next scene I lost all audio. The video was still playing as normal it seemed just without the audio.

Next I put in Air Zonk and played through the first level without any audio issues. The one problem I did run into was that the rapid fire would not work properly when I held down the button to shoot. When I would tap the button it would sometimes shoot but not always. Hopefully that is just a dirty contact that I can clean up. I have two controllers and the second controller I tried worked like normal, no issues.

Because the audio worked perfectly fine on the Hucard I am assuming my issue is in the cd-rom area. Either with the caps or the pickup lens. So, I feel the proper thing to do is to go ahead with the cap replacement. I am still wondering if I should just replace the 9v motor and the HOP-M3 laser pickup, just to make those parts new so I won't have to go back in later on.

I used the standard cable for the Duo to hook up to my TV and it seemed to look fairly ok. I was expecting it to be washed out a bit more and stretched out but it actually looked pretty normal to me.

Looks like I will start shopping at mouser to see what caps I can get. I would like to kind of catalog my changes to the system so I will most likely update this thread as I get each mod done.

Edit: Well, I just ordered all the caps I hope. I also went with mostly ceramic with a few Aluminum Electrolytic from Nichicon. All of the ceramics were from TDK.

I also bought a  HOP-M3 Hitachi CD/VCD Laser Pickup. I also needed to buy the gamebit socket that fits this console. Once I have this I can open up the TurboDuo and see the electric motor for better judgement on replacing that as well. I am only going this far as I want to make everything that is mechanical in the console as new as possible.

I do have another question though.... Is the battery backup memory capacitor listed in the diagram in the other thread? I want to make sure I get that replaced so I don't have to worry about my save games.

[crans]

good luck to you sir and make sure to clean all the old junk off prior to new caps.

any issues many good members hear can chime in on where to look

[MNKyDeth]

Ok, after a long drawn out process with the USPS delivery from Amazon it looks like I will finally be getting the needed equipment this coming week to start working on my Duo hopefully next weekend.

I have everything except the gamebit to open the console and some odd's and ends I wanted to make the job a bit easier.

Out of the options available that I am heavily considering doing to my Duo when I open it up I would prefer recommendations on which ones people prefer to use.

1. Buy an Everdrive 2 when it comes out that might have an expanded backup memory, or go with the current Everdrive and then region mod my console with GameTechUS region mod chip with a tennokoe. However, I may do the region mod anyways to allow for PCE games. I just really want a larger backup area available to me.

1a. In the scenario above the new revision of GameTechUS converter is not out yet as there was an issue with it I think. I am subbed to his youtube so I know I need to wait on that. Or I can go with the one on tg16pcemods.com the OBEY chip. It just seems the GaeTechUS mod chip would be a bit easier for me I think.

2. I plan on buying the RGB to Component video converter V.2 from the above mentioned site. I really have not seen any other or better solutions than that specific mod for RGB for the Duo's. If there is a better solution let me know please as I plan on buying this before this weekend it over.


So... Planned mods hopefully for the following weekend are....

1. Full cap replacement
2. Replace laser pickup lens unit with a new HOP-M3
3. Install RGB mod
4. (optional, undecided) region mod

After completion of each mod I will test before moving to the next one to help eliminate issues if any should arise.

[schweaty]

i wouldnt mess with the HOP-M3 unless you know for certain that it is fuct.  the failure rate on the chinese HOP-M3s (i'm sure they are all chinese, but i'm talking about the modern ones... so i digress) is reported to be as high as 75%.  stick with the stock laser until you know it needs to be replaced.

the jury is still out on the ceramic caps.  very few people have used the ceramics so far.  my personal opinion is it wont make a huge difference which one you use (though the lack of a polarity on the ceramics will make it easier) as long as it gets done.

[Keith Courage]

I agree, keep the stock lens. generally minor pot adjustments get it working well once again. Also, make sure to clean off and regrease those lens rails.

[wilykat]

If you're getting Turbo Everdrive, don't bother with region mod.  TED handles that and there's been complaint that some region mod actually cause problem with TED.  From what I can tell, it seems problem is mostly the version that is switchable via controller button on power up and not physical switch.

Also if you're going to wait before getting TED, you could get an used TED 1.x cheap when people buys their new TED 2 and sell off older TED.  AFAIK the 2.0 would only help with Populous game and any future homemade game that needs extra RAM.  2.0 still won't work with Arcade card (it uses a lot more memory) so unless you really want extra RAM for future homemade game, just get an used TED 1.x cheap and get Populous game separately.

[MNKyDeth]

wilykat, I am mostly considering the Everdrive version 2 if it has a storage space for save games.

If it does not then the region mod is the way I think I need to go so I can use a tennokoe bank card.
Honestly either way works for me but I need more space for my save games.

Keith Courage, I will wait on replacing the lens as I trust the more experienced people here over my own judgements at this point relating to fixing up my system. Thanks for reaffirming schweaty's advice. I appreciate both of you're guys advice on that.

I guess as well I should mention I pretty much went all out on the caps for my Duo trying to adhere as close as possible to the original specs with the ceramics.

I think the RGB mod will be huge for me as my console does display on my tv just fine at the moment. I have a LG 720p 42" Plasma tv. I know it's just a touch older but it honestly works great with games, great colors and I never see any blur like I do on 1080p 120hz tv with gaming consoles.

Just went to go order the RGB mod chip http://tg16pcemods.bigcartel.com/product/new-and-improved-component-video-converter but I have no idea if I need the sync stripper board or not. I am not sure exactly what it does. Guess I will do some more reading but any advice if I need that stripper board or not is appreciated.

[MNKyDeth]

Ok, I think I have everything I want except one thing for my Duo.

I want a RGB to HDMI converter box. Similar to this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1K029H7400 The main reason for this is that I am going to install the RGB chip from http://www.tg16pcemods.com but I want to hook it straight to my computer. I have an Avermedia Live Gamer HD capture card that works good with my other consoles.

The problem I am having it that the Duo outputs 240p according to the tg16pcemods site. All of the converters I am finding only support as low as 480i or 480p.

Does anyone know of a RGB to HDMI converter that supports a 240p input signal?

[poponon]

you want a lenkeng lkv362a if you're going cheap. If money is not an option get a framemeister or xrgb3

[MNKyDeth]

Woooooo... that xrgb3 looks mighty nice. But alas, I think I may want to stay on the less expensive side for now.

Will any rgb to scart cable work, like this one? http://www.amazon.com/Component-YPbPr-Audio-Scart-Video/dp/B0060HOY5O/ref=sr_1_cc_4?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1429206344&sr=1-4-catcorr&keywords=component+to+scart+cable I mention it as it doesn't look like that lenkeng comes with one.

So, I am looking just shy of $100 and that seems good to me. Who knows down the road I may go with that XRGB unit but I would rather make sure everything works before slapping that money down.

Also, since I do plan on adding the rgb ports to the backside of my Duo I didn't see a guide or anything for routing the left and right audio to their own ports on the back of the Duo. I would like to do this to remove the need to use the stock/original cable. Any advice on where to get the audio signals from is appreciated.


Edit:

Ok wow... After some serious reading on this subject I think even if I am just getting my feet wet. In the long run that XRGB  is the way to go. Mostly for the full upscaling features it provides. It seems like it covers all the bases where as if I go cheap I could just be banging my head against the wall.

Some of the info I read, not all but very good none the less for information on this. Lots of other sites and reviews based exactly on this subject are out there. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=630556

So... I think for the time being on the RGB to hdmi conversion I will settle for it on my TV as that has RGB inputs and I can get a picture already with the standard rca cable my Duo has. Start putting some extra pennies away for that mini XRGB upscaler. Also, I think in the long run it will be the better buy especially as I move to 4k or more TV's.

[mickcris]

shameless plug, but i have some rgb amps for sale:
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18845.0
you can just replace the din5 with a din8 and not have to modify your case.

the mod you were talking about earlier is not RGB.  Its a board that converts the RGB signal to component video.  I think that it is not meant to be plugged into a scaler and its for going directly to your tv.  you would be adding an extra layer of processing if you would run it through another scaling/converting device.

[PCEngineHell]

shameless plug, but i have some rgb amps for sale:
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18845.0
you can just replace the din5 with a din8 and not have to modify your case.

the mod you were talking about earlier is not RGB.  Its a board that converts the RGB signal to component video.  I think that it is not meant to be plugged into a scaler and its for going directly to your tv.  you would be adding an extra layer of processing if you would run it through another scaling/converting device.

Turbokons RGB to component board works fine with the GBS-8200, so I am sure it would work on other scalers too that can accept component. The real issue is that some Turbo/PCE games experience a minor loss of sync when flashing occurs on screen on the GBS, like when battling one of the bosses on Side Arms. This does not happen with the Snes on the GBS, so this seems to be a PCE/TG sync issue.

[MNKyDeth]

Currently De-capping my Duo. Almost every single cap has corrosion. I never thought it would be this bad. No wonder my Duo had low audio, controllers not working right and couldn't read the cd's anymore.

I really hope this is all it needs to be in working condition again. Just going slow, taking my time hopefully by morning I have the recapping done so I can get some sleep.

[PCEngineHell]

If you have a dishwasher I'd recommend desoldering the supercap and running the pcb through a good wash, then let it air dry for a couple of days before you do the new caps.

[MNKyDeth]

Well, I don't own a dishwasher but I have a fiberglass scratch brush and I have some cleaner that is safe for PCB and plastic, quick drying no residue. It is a contact cleaner and the board looks good before I started soldering.

I did just under half of the board already. Needed a break as I am starting to go a bit cross eyed looking at these small ceramic caps and trying to tin them and the pads before placing them down.

Unfortunately I did drop one and I just cannot seem to find it so I may need to order some more by the time I am done.

I am using GameTechUS method of removing caps, by snipping them. So far no pulled or missing pads and my soldering looks adequate, not perfect but not real messy either. After the first two imo they became really nice so I went back and touched up the first two I did after I got the technique down.

The worst one I ran into so far was the 3.3uF 50v that sits just behind the cd-rom connectors. I thought the board was eaten away but after using my scratch brush on it, it showed me that the pads were still there. It was just a ton of crap around and on the pads hiding them until it was cleaned.

The audio section I can see almost every SMT cap is corroded so that area might be the worst spot yet. I just havn't got there yet.

[mickcris]

I find that grabbing them with pliers and twisting them works pretty well.  I think most people rip the pads up when the do the rock back and forth method.  usually when you twist them, the top comes off of the leads, then you can break off the black plastic piece and desolder each leg.

[MNKyDeth]

The method I am doing mickcris... I think is safer than rocking or twisting. All I did was cut the cap close to it's base and all it leaves behind is usually some black material and the two legs from the cap. Then I just go over the pads with my iron to clean the legs off and then re-tin them.

However, the thru-hole caps I messed one up so far. There are three rather large blue caps. I was de-soldering from the back side of the board and slowly pulling the cap out. Since they sit so close I couldn't see that I was pulling one of the traces right out of the board.

So... I actually have the wire trace visible and still connected at the next point so I will need to run a wire to that location. The one I messed up is the one right behind the power switch on my Duo. I am a bit nervous about the other two now back in the audio section as I still need to pull them out.

If there are any tips for getting these large blue ones out before I get to them it would be appreciated. They scare me now.

[mickcris]

I have a Hakko 808 which works great.  This tool will work too as you probably dont want to spend the money on that:
http://www.radioshack.com/radioshack-45-watt-desoldering-iron/6402060.html

I have done 4 Duos and 2 TEs and have only had 2 pads pull off the board using the twist method.  They probably would have pulled off no matter what method I used though.   I'm sure your method works too, just seems to me that it would take more effort with pieces possibly flying everywhere.

[CPTBadAss]

I always had trouble with the radio Shack bulb. Not that it's bad. Probably user error. I find that if the 808 isn't the right tool for desoldering something, I reach for an Edsyn Soldapullt. It's about $20.

[MNKyDeth]

Actually I did do a bit of shopping at RadioShack.  They are doing their 20-30% off everything right now before they close the store here since they are going out of business.

I do have a solder sucker, but it is a manual one. I realized by looking at the other large thru-hole caps the wires were a little thicker than the small ones.

So this time I when I sucked the solder out the little that remained I was able to slightly bend then cut the backside of the wires and pull the caps out very carefully without any further issues.
The first one must have had to much force when I was pulling on it so now I pay the price on that one. I am pretty sure I can fix it and then continue on with getting the rest of these caps on the board.

Thanks for the input though it did give me some ideas to try to better remove these.

[MNKyDeth]

Ok, full cap replacement is done. I went out to test the machine and oh shit yeah... The Duo turned on.

I tested Cadash for the HuCard and my low volume audio is fixed and the HuCard worked without issue. I played for about 15min and seems good. I used to have to turn the audio up to about 50 on my tv and now I only need it at 15. Both of my controllers also seemed to work properly now. My auto-fires seemed to work right instead of before being intermittent.

However, I still do have one problem. The cd-rom before I did the cap replacement had issues reading discs. It would read my Dungeon Explorer 2 disc but not my 3 in 1 disc that came with my Duo. Now it won't read any discs. I tried a few different ones to make sure. It spins up like before, tries to read the discs but never actually reads them. I let it sit for about 10min to make sure.

Do I need to adjust the pots for the unit or do I need to replace the HOP-M3? I have only done the caps so far. I don't want to start adjusting the pots and mess it up further.

Edit:

I am gonna add some pics once I get them uploaded.

[MNKyDeth]

Just updating my thread/post again.

I really didn't want to mess with the pots for the cd part of the unit but I marked them and decided to at least try. In the end I had to adjust VR102 and VR103 just a small amount. I didn't touch the others and I don't have an oscilloscope to find the exact proper settings. But....

I just successfully listened to an entire audio cd, played the intro to about 5-6 games and completed level 1-1 on Buster Bros without any issues that I could tell. I also played the intro to Lords of Thunder and all of it's audio tracks in the menu.

I am extremely excited and happy I have accomplished this repair to my Duo. I honestly couldn't have done it or even known where to begin to fix my Duo without this forum and the GameTechUS vids.

I will be adding pics to this thread with pictures of my Duo. I just want to show what I have done, the one cap I messed up, before and after shots etc. They will be in the first post, I will edit them in.

[schweaty]

congrats, dude.  it must be a very satisfying feeling.

[NecroPhile]

Congrats on getting it up and running again. 

[CPTBadAss]

Thanks for sharing the repair log with us .

[MNKyDeth]

Well, the next thing I am doing to my Duo is RGB to component. Using the V2 chip from http://www.tg16pcemods.com/new-and-improved-rgb-to-component-converter.html

I ordered it last week and it is shipped. Hopefully be here in the next couple days. I think I am going to set it up with a 8pin mini-Din port. That way I can reuse the connection later down the road if I decide to go full on RGB.

I will then make a cable from the 8pin Din port to a scart cable as that is what the XRGB seems to use. http://www.amazon.com/DP3913515-Framemeister-Micomsoft-Upscaler-Import/dp/B006H39XJS

I know I could buy a cable but I love learning how to do this stuff as well. I am familiar with crimping cables already so it's just a matter of having the pieces I need.

Not sure if I will add that mod to this thread or start a new one yet. I just want to do this console right and make it last another 20-40yrs or until I die I suppose.

[Dicer]

That Duo is gettin some serious lovin, keep up the good work...

[MotherGunner]

Nice read, thanks for sharing!