TurboChip DUDS

guyjin · 12/25/2006, 04:03 PM

will you stop whining about hucards now? :p

Emerald Rocker · 12/25/2006, 04:12 PM

I'm not whining about HuCards, I'm whining about TurboChips.

Joe Redifer · 12/25/2006, 04:19 PM

Exactly. HuCards are so much better than TuboChips. The same exact game on a HuCard is a winner whereas it is a dud on a TuboChip. HuCards are just so much more powerful.

guyjin · 12/25/2006, 04:27 PM

But all the turbochips are labeled HuCard on the back! So if you just ignore the manuals, there is no such thing as a turbochip!

CrackTiger · 12/25/2006, 05:06 PM

Quote from: Emerald Rocker on 12/25/2006, 03:32 PM
QuoteJust as so many kids can handle SNES SMB's, I think that they could handle the Bonk games if there was enough motivation for them to give them a serious play.
That's one of the problems with the Virtual Console: there isn't enough motivation for people to give these games a serious play.

They need Achievements. Then people would be plenty motivated to play the games seriously.

Although I think that Xbox360 achievements for the sake of achievements is kinda lame, but the Capcom Classics style uinlockables are a great idea and I really wish they'd do something similar with VC titles.

GUTS · 12/25/2006, 08:11 PM

Halo is the Super Mario Bros 3 of first person shooters.

TurboXray · 12/26/2006, 12:22 AM

QuoteTo that other guy: Chaos Legion is a fantastic game that truly shows off how far action titles have come (in terms of music/graphics/control) in the past 10 years.

Yup, that's sooo true. Man, I'm really glad you pointed that out to me

Joe Redifer · 12/26/2006, 12:41 AM

Quote from: guyjinBut all the turbochips are labeled HuCard on the back! So if you just ignore the manuals, there is no such thing as a turbochip!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All of my Turbo games just got 900% better!! I actually like the games I said I hated now. Like 'em a lot!

OK, for the first time in this thread I am going to be serious:
I don't care much for the term "TurboChip". I always use the term "HuCard". And I am not sure why there would even be a difference, which is what all of my posts in this thread elude to. I am under the impression that the original poster likes Japanese stuff because it is more 1337 and doesn't like American stuff because the artwork doesn't look as good or something, hence his demand that we only talk about crappy American TurboChips and not Godly Japanese HuCards.

I say we just talk about overrated games in general, whether they are US or Japanese, card or CD.

CrackTiger · 12/26/2006, 04:00 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 12/26/2006, 12:41 AM
Quote from: guyjinBut all the turbochips are labeled HuCard on the back! So if you just ignore the manuals, there is no such thing as a turbochip!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All of my Turbo games just got 900% better!! I actually like the games I said I hated now. Like 'em a lot!

OK, for the first time in this thread I am going to be serious:
I don't care much for the term "TurboChip". I always use the term "HuCard". And I am not sure why there would even be a difference, which is what all of my posts in this thread elude to. I am under the impression that the original poster likes Japanese stuff because it is more 1337 and doesn't like American stuff because the artwork doesn't look as good or something, hence his demand that we only talk about crappy American TurboChips and not Godly Japanese HuCards.

I say we just talk about overrated games in general, whether they are US or Japanese, card or CD.

Alright, overrated games:

Sapphire -not as good as many SCD games. The graphics aren't teg b3st, just good. The gameplay is good, but not legendary. And no, it doesn't push better 3D grafx than a PSX.

Shubibinman 3 -feels like an unfinished beta copy to me. I usually encounter at least a bug or two while playing, the sound doesn't match the action and it seems to be missing sfx and it just seems like a bunch of stuff thrown together instead of planned out levels that respond to gameplay. Not total garbage, but not one of the better PCE games (in my opinion).

Cosmic Fantasy 2 -I don't agree with those who say it's complete garbage, but I don't blame them for faulting the basic game outside all of the positive aesthetics. Plus, no boss fight should ever take an hour.

Beyond Shadowgate -The graphics aren't very nice, outside of a majority of the non-city bg's. But even those should've been given more than 16 colors and touched up. Some terrible sprite art which looks like the doodles of a teenager(but decent in some places). It's a fine game for what it is, especially considering the lack of competition on the TG-16 and 16-bit gen, but the TG-16 could've hosted a far superior King's Quest type game. It'd definitely be worth buying for under $30, but $200 is only for display purposes.

I am now ready to be flamed and banned from the Turbo community.

Seldane · 12/26/2006, 07:36 AM

I'm speechless!!

Emerald Rocker · 12/26/2006, 07:38 PM

QuoteI am under the impression that the original poster likes Japanese stuff because it is more 1337 and doesn't like American stuff because the artwork doesn't look as good or something, hence his demand that we only talk about crappy American TurboChips and not Godly Japanese HuCards.

I've explained my reason for dedicating this topic to TurboChips not just once but three times, and it has nothing at all to do with "America bad, Japan good". Therefore, I must assume that Joe Redifer is mentally deficient.

Joe Redifer, I demand that you cease and desist. Your tireless praising of HuCards is uncalled for in a thread about TurboChip DUDS.

Joe Redifer · 12/26/2006, 07:57 PM

If you were a mod, I might listen to you. Just because you started the thread doesn't mean you make the rules.

Anyway, why not just say "US card games" or similar instead of talking about TurboChips and HuCards? Like previously mentioned, all TurboChips are HuCards. Nowhere on the game itself does it say "TurboChip". I did read your first post but skimmed your others, since they mostly seemed ranting and annoyed. Also not sure why CD games are excluded (again I only skimmed your following posts). CD games can be just as craptacular if not moreso that card games. I am definitely mentally deficient, though.

PCEngineHell · 12/26/2006, 08:11 PM

Weird,I never once in my life refered to any Tg-16 release as a Turbochip. It plainly states Hu-card on them. Some of the games you guys are bitching about dont deserve it really. I do agree Cosmic Fantasy 2 boss fights are long,but the game was worth it all in the end after I beat it. I loved that game and totally hated Final Fantasy 2,go fig.

VestCunt · 12/26/2006, 11:37 PM

"Turbochips", in addition to being an easy way to distinguish domestic releases from imports, are also far superior to Hucards as a media format. After all, what better way to display turbo-graphics on your TurboGrafx than with a Turbochip!
I have no doubt NEC created them as a last ditch effort to stand up to the awesome power of Sega's MEGA cartridges and Sega Cards and break their monoply on the US 8-bit market...

Back on topic, whether or not a game is a "dud" is mostly a matter of personal taste. I find relatively playable games to be "duds" for a couple of reasons. One type of duds are average games that fall flat because the library is already saturated with other games of the same genre.
IMO, JJ and Jeff, Time Cruise and Dragon Spirit are good examples. JJ and Jeff has decent play control and is challenging but sucks when compared to other platformers on the Turbo. I've barely played Dragon Spirit because of all the other shooters in my collection and Time Cruise sucks compared to Devils Crush.
Another type of duds are games that just don't hold my interest long enough to figure out if they're good or not. Tricky Kick and lot of sports games like Championship Boxing and TV Sports Football are examples of this. Tricky Kick looks cool, but each screen is a logic puzzle that can only be solved one way and I just don't have the patience for it. I barely know anything about football and haven't played CB because of the intricate controls.

On the other hand, I find myself spending a fair amount of time playing crappy games that are often criticized; games like Darkwing Duck, Deep Blue, Pacland and Sonic Spike. I play these games for the same reason my RPGs are collecting dust: I don't have a lot of time and most often just want something quick and brainless. This means my shooters, platformers and pinball games have been getting a lot of use these days. Even though the four games I listed aren't the best, the controls are easy and I can space out for a few minutes without digging up a manual or password.
I also play some terrible games simply because they are completely unique. Falcon and Yo Bro both suck but I don't own any other games quite like them and they intrigue me.

Now, why I play Deep Blue and Darkwing Duck instead of Dragon Spirit and JJ and Jeff I'll never know...

nat · 12/27/2006, 12:47 AM

Deep Blue!!

It's because Deep Blue has an otherworldly charm to it, that's why.

runinruder · 12/27/2006, 01:02 AM

Dragon Spirit is slow and ugly. Deep Blue has lots of action, appealing visuals, nice music, and huge bosses.

GUTS · 12/27/2006, 01:25 AM

Anyone who doesn't like Chaos Legion is a mentally deficient fucktard.

Seldane · 12/27/2006, 03:42 AM

Dude, Dragon Spirit rules complete-rulesance! Maybe not the greatest gameplay, but the music makes up for it. Best music on the PC Engine? TOTALLY!!

PCEngineHell · 12/27/2006, 03:11 PM

Quote from: GUTS on 12/27/2006, 01:25 AMAnyone who doesn't like Chaos Legion is a mentally deficient fucktard.

I had it for PC at one point in time,I thought it was totally bad ass. I need to buy it again.

Keranu · 12/27/2006, 05:43 PM

I can't see how HuCards = Good if Turbo Chips = Da suck. I think we got most of the good HuCards out here in America as Turbo Chips. There are a few HuCard gems that are only in Japan, but for the most part I am happy with what we got in America. CDs are another story.

Emerald Rocker · 12/29/2006, 08:59 PM

Another DUD....

Splatterhouse
Two words: Censored. Kiddy-fied.

Keranu · 12/29/2006, 09:13 PM

What was censored or changed in the American version besides the mask?

guyjin · 12/29/2006, 09:47 PM

i think some christian-related imagery was removed. (upside down crosses?)

Edit:
Yes.
"There was also a later boss - an upside down cross - than was altered to be a floating head in the TG16 release."
from http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/splatterhouse/splatterhouse.htm

Keranu · 12/29/2006, 10:24 PM

Pah-lease, I'll take the cooler, scary mask of the TG16 version over the "horrorifying" upside down crosses of the Japanese version

. Also, the American version has a cooler cover!

guyjin · 12/29/2006, 10:33 PM

just had a funny thought:

'there's no such thing as bad publicity".

NEC (or whoever) should have left the upside-down cross in. This would have pissed off the fundies, generating publicity, and therefore sales.

And yes, it does work this way: Back during the satanic panic of the 80's, Dungeons and dragons was banned in Utah. (the ban didn't stand up in court, but it was enforced for a while.) Utah immediately became a black hole of gaming; stores just over the border couldn't keep stuff in stock, and farther places also noticed increased sales.

Joe Redifer · 12/30/2006, 02:48 AM

I don't recall the mask ever being purple in the TG-16 version. I always remember it as white and I used to own the game. Purple looks so odd and stupid to me.

I have played the arcade on MAME and whatnot and it certainly doesn't seem like much, if really anything significant was removed from the home version. The arcade certainly isn't any more gory. If there were some upside-down crosses removed, I think I'll be able to live without them. Blame the Jesus-freaks for that one, I guess.

nat · 12/30/2006, 04:07 AM

The TG-16 port was nearly perfect. But not quite. I actually like "Evil Sleep and the Nightmares" (the boss that replaed the cross).

Besides that, I think the only thing missing was some minor BG detail here and there.

Emerald Rocker · 12/30/2006, 02:50 PM

* On the home version (both Chip and Card), the axe weapon was replaced by a golden machete.
* On the TurboChip version, the white hockey mask was changed into a purple not-hockey mask.
* On the TurboChip version, the upside-down cross boss was replaced by a floating head. This was particularly dumb because the boss is encountered at an altar, so an upside-down cross makes sense.
* Sprites were bigger on the arcade version.
* Arcade version has superior gradients.
* The music blew on every version, so the Chip is faithful there.

esteban · 12/30/2006, 04:40 PM

Quote from: Emerald Rocker on 12/30/2006, 02:50 PM* On the home version (both Chip and Card), the axe weapon was replaced by a golden machete.
* On the TurboChip version, the white hockey mask was changed into a purple not-hockey mask.
* On the TurboChip version, the upside-down cross boss was replaced by a floating head. This was particularly dumb because the boss is encountered at an altar, so an upside-down cross makes sense.
* Sprites were bigger on the arcade version.
* Arcade version has superior gradients.
* The music blew on every version, so the Chip is faithful there.

Well, it's actually a ruddy red-colored mask, not purple. The golden meat-cleaver is actually a friggin' awesome addition to the game and I wish it was available in more than one stage in the HuCard (needless to say, the golden meat cleaver should be in the arcade version). You missed some other things as well: there is more animation in the arcade version, especially the zombies chained to the walls in the background that projectile vomit at your feet.

Anyway, the point is that Emerald Rocker created this thread to annoy folks!

If Emeril Rocker was to be taken seriously in this thread, I'd say: TG-16 Splatterhouse contains enough nasty imagery (fetus-blob baby oozing on floor, bile-belching zombies, chainsaws, shotguns, dog-killing, hacking semen-fetuses in a womb, etc.) to make anyone happy. The loss of a sole inverted cross is lamentable, but Konami / NOA were even sillier when they removed all of the crosses from the Castlevania games.

But he's not to be taken seriously in this thread

.

CrackTiger · 12/30/2006, 04:57 PM

I don't get what the big deal is with minor censorship in classic games. I'm glad that many U.S. versions are different, it makes them unique and worth playing seperate from the Japanese or arcade versions. And often something censored is more entertaining than the original.

Keranu · 12/30/2006, 06:03 PM

I agree with steve, the golden meat cleaver kicks ass! The TG16 version is simply the best ;) .

Joe Redifer · 12/30/2006, 07:13 PM

Quote from: guestI don't get what the big deal is with minor censorship in classic games.

Ask your good friend AirRaidX or whatever his name is. Any pixel that is even a slightly different hue than the arcade is a complete travesty and is worth the death penalty and anyone who plays this non-arcade version deserves to have their face inserted into a meat grinder for even daring to like it. Fortunately I agree with you and therefore remain at least somewhat sane.

OldRover · 12/31/2006, 03:35 AM

Hrm duds...let's see here...

The Legendary Axe was definately not worth the price of admission. Main reason being is that it had very poor collision detection that dropped the fun factor through the floor. The game was a bore to play because you had no idea which enemy you were actually going to hit if two were approaching you, and forget about hitting an enemy that was over a powerup item that had to be hit to be destroyed...the powerup item got the priority, leaving you to get nailed (usually for tons of damage, as this game was severely unbalanced) by the enemy (or enemies in some cases).

Ballistix, although receiving quite a few hours of gameplay time from me, is definately another one not worth the price of admission. Interesting concept it was, but its execution was very poor. This was better as a computer game...at least there it had an excuse for being so subpar.

Impossamole is usually at the top of most people's lists of duds, and it's on mine as well. It's plain and simple, really...bad hit detection = bad game, no matter how nifty the visuals are. Though I did eventually beat this game a couple of times, it was an excruciatingly frustrating journey every step of the way. With some minor corrections, this could have been an outstanding game but as it is, it's not even good enough for the bargain bin at a dollar store.

Although not a complete dud, Vigilante could have been done a whole lot better. It looked something like its arcade counterpart, but the overall feel of the game was different and I dunno about anyone else but I got the feeling that I was being cheated. There were so many missing details. It played similar to the arcade, which was its real saving grace, but in both visuals and sound, it was really watered-down from its arcade parent and it suffered for that.

I guess that's about it, really. Although there was one HuCard in particular that I thought was complete garbage, and although it gets rave reviews from some for its nude women, I'd have to say that as a game, Strip Fighter II was a total piece of crap. It looks great as static pictures, but when the sprites start moving, it's hard to take the visuals seriously. Furthermore, the game controls like junk. I think Impossamole controls better. Yet another game that could have been a star, but is hindered by bad controls, bad animation, and more concentration on the porno aspect than on the game itself (it was just as much a common trend back then as it is now).

Keranu · 12/31/2006, 04:19 AM

Strip Fighter was crap, good one to mention. I don't know why people tend to rave about it's graphics either, I thought it looked dirty as hell and the animation was mega choppy.

Joe Redifer · 12/31/2006, 05:07 AM

Who programmed the Turbo version of Vigilante?

CrackTiger · 12/31/2006, 05:31 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 12/31/2006, 05:07 AMWho programmed the Turbo version of Vigilante?

According to pcecp it was ported by Irem. Until now, I never knew that the arcade was an Irem game either.

I've never given much time to the arcade, SMS or PCE versions of Vigilante, but from what I've seen in screenshots, the PCE version looks very similar to the arcade.

esteban · 12/31/2006, 09:35 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 12/30/2006, 07:13 PM
Quote from: guestI don't get what the big deal is with minor censorship in classic games.
Ask your good friend AirRaidX or whatever his name is. Any pixel that is even a slightly different hue than the arcade is a complete travesty and is worth the death penalty and anyone who plays this non-arcade version deserves to have their face inserted into a meat grinder for even daring to like it. Fortunately I agree with you and therefore remain at least somewhat sane.

Hhahahahahaa. Holy snap, that's precisely how AirRaidX came across. I even wasted 10 minutes typing a long rebuttal to his Nazi-esque quest for pixel purity, but he largely ignored it. In his defense, he always maintained that he was attacking the folks / journalists who used the term "arcade perfect" with abandon. The distinction is important, but it didn't make AirRaidx's sermons any easier to swallow. I said "sermon", not semen, goddammit.

Getting back to the topic(s) at hand:
I know we're not supposed to be defending any of the games listed as DUDS (as per Emeril Rockers instructions), but I am surprised with all the anti-Legendary Axe sentiment. LA is a fun (if challenging) game with great music and an absorbing atmosphere. I suspect that folks are put off by the game's difficulty, which is a shame, but not particularly surprising. There are some frustrating parts of the game, but they are hardly a deal-breaker. I remember being frustrated by the swinging vines early on... and it's no picnic when you get swatted from precarious platforms... and I stumbled upon the solution to the final maze by brute trial-and-error. But these are generic complaints that can be thrown at most games in the genre.

Timeball / Blodia is a great puzzle game, but I'm too lazy to find one of the many posts I've made defending it.

I want to address more games, but ...

VestCunt · 12/31/2006, 06:01 PM

Yeah, I'm a fan of LA and think it's a pretty sweet game for it's time. It's like Shape Shifter without any downtime futzing around in shops. However, the sequel depresses me for some reason.

CrackTiger · 12/31/2006, 06:59 PM

Quote from: stevek666 on 12/31/2006, 09:35 AMHhahahahahaa. Holy snap, that's precisely how AirRaidX came across. I even wasted 10 minutes typing a long rebuttal to his Nazi-esque quest for pixel purity, but he largely ignored it. In his defense, he always maintained that he was attacking the folks / journalists who used the term "arcade perfect" with abandon. The distinction is important, but it didn't make AirRaidx's sermons any easier to swallow. I said "sermon", not semen, goddammit.

That still doesn't explain this-

"I completely dominate the field of "what is not arcade perfect" within the videogame community. i have dozens of vids on youtube comparing GnG.

...oh and also, i have FAR more videos on youtube about Ghouls n Ghosts than you ever will."

Quote from: stevek666 on 12/31/2006, 09:35 AMGetting back to the topic(s) at hand:
I know we're not supposed to be defending any of the games listed as DUDS (as per Emeril Rockers instructions), but I am surprised with all the anti-Legendary Axe sentiment. LA is a fun (if challenging) game with great music and an absorbing atmosphere. I suspect that folks are put off by the game's difficulty, which is a shame, but not particularly surprising. There are some frustrating parts of the game, but they are hardly a deal-breaker. I remember being frustrated by the swinging vines early on... and it's no picnic when you get swatted from precarious platforms... and I stumbled upon the solution to the final maze by brute trial-and-error. But these are generic complaints that can be thrown at most games in the genre.

Instructions in a forum like this are only a suggestion.

Seriously though, all the best threads are the ones that branched out into different/variant discussions.

Pretty much all of the faults Legendary Axe is accused of can be found in most generally praised 'classic' action/platformers. If anything, the very best untouchable series'/titles have some of the most extreme cases of particular offenses.

Someone mentioned the hit collision, or lack of it. Its not that the hit collision is sloppy, just the opposite. Like other non-standard games, the hit collision isn't just the invisible area right in front of you, it may sound crazy, but it's at the blade of the axe.

Ninga Gaiden NES is hailed as one of the greatest action/platformers, but in that game, your hitting area is somewhere around the tip of your sword. Try hitting an enemy that's too close and you're SOL. Even though it'd be logical that horizontal slice would hurt anything in front of you(you're not poking enemies).

But in LA, you're actually chopping with your axe, which makes sense that it doesn't destroy everything directly in front of you before you get hit. Like with any decent game, once you figure out how it works, it's pretty smooth sailing. I know that the first few times I played it like Sonic, just running through carelessly, I got my assed wooped.

Its pretty easy to see when you watch someone who knows how to play the game:

Although I love Valis II & III for what they are, I don't consider them high calibur action/platformers. But LA is one of the better ones on any console.

I still don't understand how some people can appreciate the art style of a game like Yoshi's Island but completely not 'get' LA's aesthetic.

Joe Redifer · 12/31/2006, 07:58 PM

The first Legendary Axe is definitely overrated, even for its time. Magazines were proclaiming it to be one of the best games ever and definitely the best game for the Turbo at the time. EGM said "A definite 10!" It was supposed to be the end all be all of the next generation and was supposed to only be matched by Sega's Ghouls & Ghosts. It was hard to determine a winner between the Genesis and the TurboGrafx-16 at the time since Legendary Axe simply displayed so much RAW POWER!

Obviously they had never played Legendary Axe before writing these statements. The character never even picks his feet up off of the ground when walking, he just slided them back and forth. He has only two frames of animation when climbing up something, and one of those frames is just a mirrored version of the other, so he really only has one frame for climbing. Very NES-looking in that regard. Could have been much better especially since you spend the entire game looking at that same asshole. The game even had the fuzzy, shimmering scrolling like NES games. The music did indeed sound very NES-ish and certainly not much more powerful, if at all.

When I first bought the Genesis and a few games, I was finally able to rent a TurboGrafx to see what that system was all about. The first game I plugged in was Legendary Axe due to it's amazing next generation awesomeness it was said to possess. At that point I was glad I chose the Genesis over the Turbo because that game made me think the Turbo was basically a slightly faster NES with more colors. Why this game was so hyped back in the day is beyond me.

CrackTiger · 12/31/2006, 09:39 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 12/31/2006, 07:58 PMThe first Legendary Axe is definitely overrated, even for its time. Magazines were proclaiming it to be one of the best games ever and definitely the best game for the Turbo at the time. EGM said "A definite 10!" It was supposed to be the end all be all of the next generation and was supposed to only be matched by Sega's Ghouls & Ghosts. It was hard to determine a winner between the Genesis and the TurboGrafx-16 at the time since Legendary Axe simply displayed so much RAW POWER!

Obviously they had never played Legendary Axe before writing these statements. The character never even picks his feet up off of the ground when walking, he just slided them back and forth. He has only two frames of animation when climbing up something, and one of those frames is just a mirrored version of the other, so he really only has one frame for climbing. Very NES-looking in that regard. Could have been much better especially since you spend the entire game looking at that same asshole. The game even had the fuzzy, shimmering scrolling like NES games. The music did indeed sound very NES-ish and certainly not much more powerful, if at all.

When I first bought the Genesis and a few games, I was finally able to rent a TurboGrafx to see what that system was all about. The first game I plugged in was Legendary Axe due to it's amazing next generation awesomeness it was said to possess. At that point I was glad I chose the Genesis over the Turbo because that game made me think the Turbo was basically a slightly faster NES with more colors. Why this game was so hyped back in the day is beyond me.

Actually EGM was the magazine that trashed Legendary Axe, comparing the giant by 32-bit standards final boss sprite to the background with sprites for limbs final boss of Ghouls N Ghosts(which they said was supposed to be the end all be all of the next generation) as a slag against LA and the TG-16. I was a Genesis player back then and thought that it was a stupid comparison.

VG&CE gave LA the Game Of The Year award. But I never read that magazine regularly and never heard much of any acclaim given to LA. Which is part of why I only ever rented it back in the day and didn't give it much of a chance.

GamePro was Turbo friendly, often reviewing PC Engine games, but weren't biased towards the TG-16.

EGM however, overall was pretty hard on the TG-16 from the get go through till the end of the Duo. Of course now, to been seen hip and down with the retro old school, EGM rants about how cool all the TG-16 Wii games are that they trashed back in the day.

Even if by anyone's personal standards, Legendary Axe isn't teh next gen enough, its still a decent game and fun once you get the hang of it. Now more than ever, even if it wasn't what you were looking for aesthetically back then, it shouldn't matter now because judging games based on cutting edge technologicalessity, all 16-bit(and 8 - 128-bit) games are garbage.

Keranu · 12/31/2006, 10:16 PM

Quote from: guest on 12/31/2006, 09:39 PMEGM however, overall was pretty hard on the TG-16 from the get go through till the end of the Duo. Of course now, to been seen hip and down with the retro old school, EGM rants about how cool all the TG-16 Wii games are that they trashed back in the day.

Right on.

Joe Redifer · 12/31/2006, 10:44 PM

Before the Genesis and Turbo were released, EGM said Legendary Axe was a "Definite 10" and it was the game that made them think the Turbo was the better system. I am talking about my experiences then, so now doesn't matter. The game was clearly overrated then.

QuoteOf course now, to been seen hip and down with the retro old school, EGM rants about how cool all the TG-16 Wii games are that they trashed back in the day.

That's because today's gaming sucks ass, so even shitty games back then are friggin' awesome in comparison.

CrackTiger · 01/01/2007, 12:13 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 12/31/2006, 10:44 PMBefore the Genesis and Turbo were released, EGM said Legendary Axe was a "Definite 10" and it was the game that made them think the Turbo was the better system. I am talking about my experiences then, so now doesn't matter. The game was clearly overrated then.

I guess that was before Sega started with the payola, only to be outbid later on by Nintendo and eventually Sony(and depending on who you ask, now Microsoft).

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 12/31/2006, 10:44 PM
QuoteOf course now, to been seen hip and down with the retro old school, EGM rants about how cool all the TG-16 Wii games are that they trashed back in the day.
That's because today's gaming sucks ass, so even shitty games back then are friggin' awesome in comparison.

That's true... about today's games.

Emerald Rocker · 01/01/2007, 12:28 AM

Quoteeven if it wasn't what you were looking for aesthetically back then, it shouldn't matter now because judging games based on cutting edge technologicalessity, all 16-bit(and 8 - 128-bit) games are garbage.

I don't quite understand this statement. It sounds like you're saying it doesn't matter if we found LA aesthetically displeasing in the past, because it's technologically ancient now. However, I think it does matter --- there are a lot of games that have awesome aesthetics, but are not (and never were) technologically cutting edge.

Aesthetics are why I still find some games, such as El Viento with its exaggerated explosions, to be visually pleasing... whereas artistically bankrupt games, such as Nanobreaker, actually look worse despite being more technologically advanced.

Maybe I missed some sarcasm?

CrackTiger · 01/01/2007, 12:44 AM

Quote from: Emerald Rocker on 01/01/2007, 12:28 AM
Quoteeven if it wasn't what you were looking for aesthetically back then, it shouldn't matter now because judging games based on cutting edge technologicalessity, all 16-bit(and 8 - 128-bit) games are garbage.
I don't quite understand this statement. It sounds like you're saying it doesn't matter if we found LA aesthetically displeasing in the past, because it's technologically ancient now. However, I think it does matter --- there are a lot of games that have awesome aesthetics, but are not (and never were) technologically cutting edge.

Aesthetics are why I still find some games, such as El Viento with its exaggerated explosions, to be visually pleasing... whereas artistically bankrupt games, such as Nanobreaker, actually look worse despite being more technologically advanced.

Maybe I missed some sarcasm?

Basically JR was dissapointed when he first tried it, because it wasn't next genny enough at the time(more like a turbo NES). I had a similar experience with Altered Beast Genesis.

But NES games can still look and sound great. And even though a lot of us in the past may have dismissed previous generations as soon as the new ones appeared, everyone here can now appreciate classic games for what they are instead of being blinded by what they aren't.

The reverse is also true. Lots of people play crappy games and let a lot of things slide because of the technically killer graphics or some other contemporary gimmick(like a hip license). But once the technical display(seperate from art) or license/gimmick is old news, going back to those kinds of games can reveal how crappy or just plain not fun they really are.

In the case of Legendary Axe, I didn't really like the graphics and sound when I rented it back in the day, because of the time I played it(I was looking for something more cutting edge).

I probably had a similar experience as Joe back then, I was dissapointed at not being wowed right off the bat. If something reminded me of the NES or didn't feel 16-bitty enough, then I figured it must be bad. So I never gave it a fair chance. But years later I tried it again and was impressed by it all round.

Emerald Rocker · 01/01/2007, 03:50 AM

Got it now. Thanks.

OldRover · 01/01/2007, 03:17 PM

The problem with LA's coldet has nothing to do with its range. It has to do with its premature failure. It works a little like this...in most coldet methods, you check a range of entities. In this case, collision with the powerup items were counted first, then collision with enemy entities. A correct coldet will check for all items within range, and will count all types of entities. LA's fails this by exiting the coldet function as soon as a single truth is fired. In other words...it bails out as soon as you hit a single entity, even if realistically, you should have hit two or more. Because LA's coldet function places powerup items as top priority, it fails as soon as one is truthed, and because of that, skips over all enemy entities (and all other item entities in range as well).

Does it make the game harder? Of course it does! Is that a good thing? No! Games are supposed to be hard on their own merits, not due to a technical limitation of the game engine. Bad coldet, cheap/forced hits, etc...these are details that frustrate gamers and cause them to have less fun playing the game...and make that game end up on lists like these.

esteban · 01/09/2007, 09:01 PM

OK, after catching up on this thread, I just wanted to say, first, that I agree with all of the points that CrackTiger said in defense of LA.

Furthermore, I had the same experience as he and Joe had with LA when I first played it (and many other TG-16 / Genesis titles): it didn't seem like a hardcore "next-gen" game. Bleeding edge, if you will. Far from it. Instead, I felt it was an enhanced NES title. I still enjoyed LA, as stated earlier, but it didn't invoke the "cutting edge" feeling that, say, Strider or Shinobi III did.

LA II, on the other hand, had such a brooding atmosphere and polished graphics that I felt it was a proper "16-bit" title, even if the gameplay was a familiar formula. Another example: Blazing Lazers, for me, definitely felt like a proper 16-bit game... it was the complete package, despite the fact that Lifeforce on NES had equally compelling gameplay.

That said, I still like the aesthetics in LA. I think they are very kool. If I had a complaint, I'd say that there should have been a larger cast of enemies. And the eagle, or hawk, or whatever it was: it looked like crap. All the other sprites in the game were really nice, but the eagle was horrendous. And Emeril Rocker was right about the exploration in LA: there is none, really. LA would have benefitted from multiple paths in the stages and more exploration for required items. Or perhaps not. Perhaps the slow-pacing of LA would be unbearable if it was less linear and required exploration. And Joe's right about Gogan sliding around.